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S12.E22: Mama Tried

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6 hours ago, TheresaW1934 said:

Or does everyone here think Callie and Penny are finished?  What was your take on the pulling the hand away scene in the end?

I didn't actually see them as finished, so much as Callie lashing out like the emotional child she is. But I would like Penny to move on and upward. And maybe Callie's hypocritical wretched friends can just plow her with liquor and encourage her downward spiral for next season.

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14 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

If I recall, Meredith never actually disliked Callie. She kind of laughed at her eccentricities behind her back with Izzie, but beyond that she was kind of indifferent toward her as far as liking/disliking.

Meredith has always been curiously dead inside. It makes her loyal to surprising people, AND disloyal to surprising people. And a terrible influence all round I AM grateful she was not unkind to AZ in the end when she let Sophia go. .

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15 hours ago, pennben said:

Or maybe, rise up?!:)

What a perfectly beautiful song to play over that ending. 

Yes indeed... This episode was written to show Arizona stacked with the odds against her and Arizona the badass fetal surgeon. 

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5 hours ago, searims said:

Black Night, I really enjoy reading your insightful analysis of the current Callie-Arizona SL.

Ditto...insightful reading from several posters here kind of reminds me of the TWOP forums. Although, I think some of the twop posters were the actual writers, directors and guest stars with insights and spoilerish details.  

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6 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

I didn't actually see them as finished, so much as Callie lashing out like the emotional child she is. But I would like Penny to move on and upward. And maybe Callie's hypocritical wretched friends can just plow her with liquor and encourage her downward spiral for next season.

From a personal viewer standpoint, I hope they are done because they are not the smallest bit exciting to watch as a couple.  And I say this as a person who is not stone cold Penny hater -- although I do hate what they've so transparently done to make her such a paragon is so short a time.

But from a character integrity standpoint, i hope Callie does stick with Penny.  Again, not because I think they are some great couple, but because after all this she better be worth what it has cost Callie to do what she has to done be with her.

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8 hours ago, searims said:

i don't think she'll be back for the next season and quite honestly, I think the writers deliberately chose her to be Callie's partner knowing full well that the two lacked in the chemistry department. So that it would be easy for the viewers not to get too invested in this couple. Heck, they done even have a ship name and they were together for most of the season.

 

I think they chose her to be Callie's partner because they wanted a shocking way to have her pop up for the dinner party, and in order for her to do that she'd have to be a date of someone else's. And people only bring their significant others around to meet their friends if they are really into them, which the show had Callie setup by gushing about this mysterious woman merely a week into having starting dated her. And I think because Callie is or was a well liked character, they thought she'd be helpful in making this character likable and accepted, and then once Meredith was okay with her all 7 million viewers would love her too. 

I think the show was hoping that Callie and Penny would catch fire, which is why they have gone full steam ahead with them despite lack of chemistry and negative fan reception. The narrative has been that Callie is really into her, so much so that in this past episode she said that she shouldn't have to choose between her daughter and her girlfriend. That's insane to me, but for whatever reason I do think the show wanted viewers to get on board with Callie and Penny and it has backfired spectacularly. 

Edited by funnygirl
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I think part of it is Shonda's love of actor recycling. The girl who plays Penny was on Scandal for 2 seasons, so I guess she built up a bit of good graced loyalty.

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It's not surprising to me that Arizona wouldn't go negative on Callie at trial. I have always felt like (with the exception of the character assassination cheating), she has been something of a moral compass on this show.  When Izzie was in surgery and Callie in the chapel was feeling guilty for wishing her dead, Arizona brought her back to her true intentions of being there and NOT actually being a bad person. She got Callie to listen to her father and got her father to come around to Callie by just making very level-headed and impassioned points for both. When Derek was doing the spinal surgery that the chief did not approve and he tried to storm in, it was Arizona who blocked the door and wouldn't let him.  When the rich family whose son Arizona was treating was in serious trouble and the chief and hospital administrator tried to pressure her, she pointed out to them that the patient wasn't a stack of dollar bills. She tried her best to do right by him and his family and didn't care how much money was on the line for the hospital--which is eventually why they hospital even got the money. When Mark tried to sway Sloane into invoking her parental rights instead of putting the baby up for adoption, Arizona pointed out what was actually best for both her and the baby and held her ground on that topic.  When Henry died and people were bailing on girl's night with Teddy, Arizona was the one who pointed out what terrible people they were and shamed everyone into attending. It is totally within her character to go only by the facts in this trial and it's one of the reasons I've always loved her--except when the show made me hate her for a little while.  I loved also that they showed her telling the lawyer that she called the shots.  It shows the difference between her and Callie in this case.  Callie either tacitly let her attorney go dirty during Arizona's testimony or explicitly told her to. In the end, she calls the shots with her attorney too and was willing to go to an ugly place to get what she wanted. She's going to be scrambling now because she lost. She's going to beg and I can only hope apologize though I'm not sure any apology can fix the virtual Pandora's box she opened. 

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28 minutes ago, CED9 said:

I think part of it is Shonda's love of actor recycling. The girl who plays Penny was on Scandal for 2 seasons, so I guess she built up a bit of good graced loyalty.

Yes I noticed that too, Jake from scandal played Teddys spouse. Thatcher, Mer mom, etc all from Greys.  

1 hour ago, funnygirl said:

The narrative has been that Callie is really into her, so much so that in this past episode she said that she shouldn't have to choose between her daughter and her girlfriend. 

I had watch that scene again where Callie is talking above choosing between the person she loves and the person she loves and all Mer could say is Let's hope you don't have to!!  Good grief, how about cracking Callie up side her head with a shot of tequila and tell her choosing over your child should never be a thought... But looks like the writers are going that route. 

I can't see a Arizona and Penny hook up at all. Like hospital food, the actress/character is just too bland. 

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8 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

It's not surprising to me that Arizona wouldn't go negative on Callie at trial. I have always felt like (with the exception of the character assassination cheating), she has been something of a moral compass on this show.  When Izzie was in surgery and Callie in the chapel was feeling guilty for wishing her dead, Arizona brought her back to her true intentions of being there and NOT actually being a bad person. She got Callie to listen to her father and got her father to come around to Callie by just making very level-headed and impassioned points for both. When Derek was doing the spinal surgery that the chief did not approve and he tried to storm in, it was Arizona who blocked the door and wouldn't let him.  When the rich family whose son Arizona was treating was in serious trouble and the chief and hospital administrator tried to pressure her, she pointed out to them that the patient wasn't a stack of dollar bills. She tried her best to do right by him and his family and didn't care how much money was on the line for the hospital--which is eventually why they hospital even got the money. When Mark tried to sway Sloane into invoking her parental rights instead of putting the baby up for adoption, Arizona pointed out what was actually best for both her and the baby and held her ground on that topic.  When Henry died and people were bailing on girl's night with Teddy, Arizona was the one who pointed out what terrible people they were and shamed everyone into attending. It is totally within her character to go only by the facts in this trial and it's one of the reasons I've always loved her--except when the show made me hate her for a little while.  I loved also that they showed her telling the lawyer that she called the shots.  It shows the difference between her and Callie in this case.  Callie either tacitly let her attorney go dirty during Arizona's testimony or explicitly told her to. In the end, she calls the shots with her attorney too and was willing to go to an ugly place to get what she wanted. She's going to be scrambling now because she lost. She's going to beg and I can only hope apologize though I'm not sure any apology can fix the virtual Pandora's box she opened. 

That is a good point Arizona has always thought in terms of black/white. Which is why it was totally in character of her to tell Jackson about April's pregnancy.

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Maybe they wanted Penny to be to Callie what Finn was to Meredith. Seemingly perfect, perfect for her, what she should want. But, it's been mostly talk and very little show with C/P.

I was talking with a friend, and she pointed out to me that Callie gets more emotionally tied to women when she's in relationships, but is willing to let go of men for similar reasons (the cop last season that was too boring for her) I wonder if that's intentional on the writers part.

Edited by CED9

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18 minutes ago, CED9 said:

Maybe they wanted Penny to be to Callie what Finn was to Meredith. Seemingly perfect, perfect for her, what she should want. But, it's been mostly talk and very little show with C/P.

I was talking with a friend, and she pointed out to me that Callie gets more emotionally tied to women when she's in relationships, but is willing to let go of men for similar reasons (the cop last season that was too boring for her) I wonder if that's intentional on the writers part.

I think that was intentional. Shondaland threaded very lightly. I could see the negative attention if Callie started to  have sex with men even though she 'labeled' bi. 

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Am I nuts or was the bailiff in the courtroom the same actor as Isaac (the patient with the massive spinal tumor)?

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10 minutes ago, Mellsy said:

Am I nuts or was the bailiff in the courtroom the same actor as Isaac (the patient with the massive spinal tumor)?

It was different actors. An actor called Eliyas Qureshi played the bailiff (according to IMDb) and Faran Tahir played Isaac. 

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Thank you!  I meant to go back and look at the episode again and never got around to it :). The episode with Isaac was one of my favorites.

Edited by Mellsy

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11 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

Why is Maggie ALWAYS watching everyone's kids.

To be fair, Amelia was the babysitter for the second day of the trial.  Because, you know, there is no one on that show I'd feel more comfortable leaving my children with than Amelia....

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11 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

There was a moment where Callie was meeting with her attorney and marveling that Arizona could allow her lawyer to get so devious (about Penny), and even the attorney justified the actions.

That cracked me up, Callie referring to what happened to Penny during cross as being "slimy bull-" (she got cut off halfway through). That really wasn't slimy, or even attacking Penny as a person. It was simply a demonstration that the hole that would be created in Sofia's life by moving her across the country from one of her mothers cannot be filled by inserting a woman who has only known Sofia a couple of months into Arizona's slot as co-mother. It is an entirely valid issue to address. Maybe it can be argued that asking personal questions about Sofia, then switching to another topic, and then asking more personal questions about Sofia was a bit tricksy, but certainly nowhere near what ended up being done to Arizona. But Callie is a classic bully, dishing it out as much as she can but extremely thin-skinned about even the tiniest amount getting shoveled at her. If Arizona had done to Callie what Callie did to her (except Arizona would never), I cannot imagine the levels of screaming and whining we would've gotten from Callie. It would be entirely justified, sure, because it was gross and unforgivable, but seriously, think of how much she would have screamed and carried on. Arizona's reactions were really restrained considering all that was slung her way, topped off with what Callie said to her when they were sitting on the bench.

Quote

I am pretty sure Sophia called Arizona mommy in the end, which makes this true. But I really thought Callie was Mommy before and Arizona was Mamma? I thought AZ was always Mamma....  When AZ told Callie at that party years ago that she wanted the papers signed up for custody, she said, "I'm the Mamma."

I truly can't remember how it was in the past, though another poster said it was definitely Mommy for Callie and Mama for Arizona before. In this episode, not only did Sofia call Callie "Mama" at the start and Arizona "Mommy" at the end, but when Callie was on the phone with Sofia she said, "No, I don't want to talk to Mommy." Maybe what happened is that the writers couldn't remember what it was in the past, and they thought that Callie being "Mama" would make the most sense because that is how it is spelled in Spanish, too, and Callie is bilingual.

I really don't see Calzona as being endgame, not under these showrunners anyway. These showrunners are actually interested in showing Arizona's point of view, and they also clearly understand why the Calzona relationship was dysfunctional. Callie is simply not a compatible partner for Arizona, and on Callie's side, well, I tend to think any relationship she has will fail regardless, but the closer she has to someone who thinks like herself, the better. And there has been zip zero between the women indicating any lingering feelings or attraction. Arizona was over Callie even before this custody battle, and Callie has never seemed tempted to go back to Arizona.

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54 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

To be fair, Amelia was the babysitter for the second day of the trial.  Because, you know, there is no one on that show I'd feel more comfortable leaving my children with than Amelia....

I remember that when Amelia first came to be a regular on this show, she lived with Derek and Meredith and was the baby-sitter and chef and housekeeper and Meredith was thrilled to have her.  Wanted her there forever to take care of the kids.  So it's not at all surprising that she would leave Amelia in charge of the kids.  Mer spends less time with her kids than Amelia and Maggie do, yet she was supposedly the paragon of parenting on the stand, lol.

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7 minutes ago, izabella said:

I remember that when Amelia first came to be a regular on this show, she lived with Derek and Meredith and was the baby-sitter and chef and housekeeper and Meredith was thrilled to have her.  Wanted her there forever to take care of the kids.  So it's not at all surprising that she would leave Amelia in charge of the kids.  Mer spends less time with her kids than Amelia and Maggie do, yet she was supposedly the paragon of parenting on the stand, lol.

Very true, indeed. I think both aunts parent all 3 children more than their own mother.

Edited by NathanRiggsfan
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12 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

That cracked me up, Callie referring to what happened to Penny during cross as being "slimy bull-" (she got cut off halfway through). That really wasn't slimy, or even attacking Penny as a person. It was simply a demonstration that the hole that would be created in Sofia's life by moving her across the country from one of her mothers cannot be filled by inserting a woman who has only known Sofia a couple of months into Arizona's slot as co-mother. It is an entirely valid issue to address. Maybe it can be argued that asking personal questions about Sofia, then switching to another topic, and then asking more personal questions about Sofia was a bit tricksy, but certainly nowhere near what ended up being done to Arizona. But Callie is a classic bully, dishing it out as much as she can but extremely thin-skinned about even the tiniest amount getting shoveled at her. If Arizona had done to Callie what Callie did to her (except Arizona would never), I cannot imagine the levels of screaming and whining we would've gotten from Callie. It would be entirely justified, sure, because it was gross and unforgivable, but seriously, think of how much she would have screamed and carried on. Arizona's reactions were really restrained considering all that was slung her way, topped off with what Callie said to her when they were sitting on the bench.

I truly can't remember how it was in the past, though another poster said it was definitely Mommy for Callie and Mama for Arizona before. In this episode, not only did Sofia call Callie "Mama" at the start and Arizona "Mommy" at the end, but when Callie was on the phone with Sofia she said, "No, I don't want to talk to Mommy." Maybe what happened is that the writers couldn't remember what it was in the past, and they thought that Callie being "Mama" would make the most sense because that is how it is spelled in Spanish, too, and Callie is bilingual.

I really don't see Calzona as being endgame, not under these showrunners anyway. These showrunners are actually interested in showing Arizona's point of view, and they also clearly understand why the Calzona relationship was dysfunctional. Callie is simply not a compatible partner for Arizona, and on Callie's side, well, I tend to think any relationship she has will fail regardless, but the closer she has to someone who thinks like herself, the better. And there has been zip zero between the women indicating any lingering feelings or attraction. Arizona was over Callie even before this custody battle, and Callie has never seemed tempted to go back to Arizona.

They probably did get confused as continuity is not the strong suit of the writer's room.  In the episode where Arizona asks for a piece of paper saying she's Sophia's mom, she specifically said that Sophia calls her Mama.  Arizona: "And she calls me Mama. And I know that it sounds like it's babbling, but she's— she's saying it to me. Because I'm— I'm her Mama"

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32 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Arizona was over Callie even before this custody battle, and Callie has never seemed tempted to go back to Arizona.

Exactly... There's no flirting inniendos between them so I can't imagine anything happening in 2 episodes  that will re-spark Callie and Arizona back together as reported. Even the co-parenting relationship is damage goods. 

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57 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

They probably did get confused as continuity is not the strong suit of the writer's room.  In the episode where Arizona asks for a piece of paper saying she's Sophia's mom, she specifically said that Sophia calls her Mama.  Arizona: "And she calls me Mama. And I know that it sounds like it's babbling, but she's— she's saying it to me. Because I'm— I'm her Mama"

Hmm. Is that the only time in the past where Arizona was referenced as "Mama"? Because if so, then it actually does make sense - "ma-ma," like "da-da," are just about the easiest sounds for a baby to make. "Mom-my" comes later. So when Sofia was still so young, she would just say "mama" for both Callie and Arizona. Then of course as she aged her language skills would get better, and the family would find it useful, obviously, to be able to distinguish between Callie and Arizona in conversation, so at that point they would've started using "Mama" for one and "Mommy" for the other. And Callie taking "Mama" makes sense for the reason I gave above. So maybe it's not a continuity error after all.

32 minutes ago, Catznip said:

Exactly... There's no flirting inniendos between them so I can't imagine anything happening in 2 episodes  that will re-spark Callie and Arizona back together as reported. Even the co-parenting relationship is damage goods. 

No flirting innuendos, and no jealousy on either side. Callie hasn't cared that Arizona's been banging her way through a crowd of women (until it was convenient to slut-shame her) - which is especially telling given that Arizona's pre-Calzona lovers as well as the hook-ups with Lauren and Leah were all sore points for Callie. And when Arizona learned about Callie lying to Penny about AZ not wanting Penny to meet Sofia yet, she didn't indulge in any "maybe Callie isn't over me yet!" speculation. She was just mad that Callie dragged her into it. And she said she had no problem with Penny meeting Sofia (that, I'm sure she regrets now). And she was happy when Callie told her she had figured things out with Penny, before she found out that "figuring things out" meant "I'm moving to NYC and taking Sofia!" She ultimately didn't care about Callie herself moving: "Go. Be happy. Have your Penny. You're just not taking my daughter with you." Now maybe if it were the old showrunners, they'd force Calzona back together anyway, but I don't see these showrunners doing it - especially not in the two episodes remaining before the season ends. First, it would be so rushed, and and second, why would they, when Sara Ramirez's status is totally up in the air?

Edited by Black Knight
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On 5/9/2016 at 11:17 AM, CED9 said:

I think part of it is Shonda's love of actor recycling. The girl who plays Penny was on Scandal for 2 seasons, so I guess she built up a bit of good graced loyalty.

I'm a Scandal fan and I could NOT remember that actress being on Scandal. Actually had to google it. OMG. That's how bland and forgettable the actor playing Penny is (with all due respect). I really don't like to tear people down because we don't choose our looks but we are responsible for our presence and she has NONE. I'm usually really good with actors and faces and TOTALLY blanked on hers. I remember all the other Shonda cross-casting that has been done because I'm also into How To Get Away With Murder and we've had one or two there as well but Poor Pretty Penny certainly didn't leave a mark....

Oh and kudos to the writers for changing my mind about Arizona. I really never liked her before and never found myself routing for her much but I think her writing has gotten much better since the accident. Less "sunshine and rainbows" and little more realistic. Also, her acting in that episode really impressed me. Like another poster said, the way she went from being all mad about her trial to walking into the OR at the end and just switching into her Happy Surgeon persona was incredible.

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I too agree that I don't see a reunion between her and Callie. Although I loved the way she was the only one that used to call her Calliope. I'm really intrigued as to where their story goes now because viewers aren't happy about the Penny relationship and I don't think they would want Callie to leave on such a sour note but then if she doesn't WHAT WAS THIS IN AID OF?!?!?!?! **sigh**

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I wonder how different it might have been if Shonda had cast another redhead like the gorgeous Wrenn Schmidt. Or maybe she really didn't want chemistry between them. IDK

Edited by Syd

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18 hours ago, timimouse said:

Like another poster said, the way she went from being all mad about her trial to walking into the OR at the end and just switching into her Happy Surgeon persona was incredible.

That was a great moment. I couldn't help wondering, though, what would've happened if Russo had cut the cord or the mom hadn't given permission. I was afraid for all of them in that moment when they were waiting for Tara to decide, ha ha, because Arizona can change personas in a flash, and girlfriend had had a shitty day. I also wondered why April/Karev/Ben weren't trying harder to slow/stop Russo. Like, Alex should've taken the surgical implements that Russo would need to cut and clamp the cord off the tray, April should've been obsessively mopping the surgical field to "get a clear visual" (and thus obstruct Russo's hands), Ben should've been claiming he needed to tinker with a machine. I would've considered it a matter of self-preservation, i.e., would any sane person want to be in a room with Arizona and a bunch of scalpels at the moment she discovered she left her custody trial for nothing? At least April and Alex were smart enough to chime in when Tara was deciding.

I also would've killed to hear the conversation between Ben and Bailey that night. Can you imagine? Bailey: "Robbins left her trial in the middle of her testimony!" Ben: "What? I knew she left, but not in the middle of her testimony. It was my surgery she came into! She saved a baby's life." Bailey: "Whoa. Do you know what Callie was doing to her at the trial today? She was slut-shaming her and saying she wasn't really Sofia's mother." Ben: "What a -" Between Bailey and Ben, they have all the pieces of Arizona's day and can put them together.

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Im no longer invested enough in Grey's to watch it when it airs so I just caught up on Hulu. I've always liked Callie more than Arizona but in this case I totally agree that Arizona is the right choice for sole custody of Sophia. Callie is incredibly selfish in this instance and I am very glad she lost.  It is beyond ridiculous and self centered of Callie to totally uproot her daughter's life, take her away from the other parent, her school, her friends, her home just to be with a partner she's only known a few months. No good parent would ever do that to their child if they put that child before their own selfish wants and needs.  I hated the way that Callie allowed Arizona to be trashed in that court room. My cousin is going thru something similar right now. She wants to take her 3 kids (with different dads) away from their grandparents, 2 of the fathers including one that she was living with since their son was born until recently, away from their cousins, their school etc to move to another state over ten hours away because of some guy she met online. Makes me sick.


Maybe Callie will wake up and realize Penny as someone she just met a few months ago is just not worth sacrificing her daughter for.

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For some reason,  all day long today,  I've been thinking that this episode could have really used Carlos to knock some sense into Callie (like he did with the lawsuit episode). Obviously,  Callie assumed she would win,  since she was found "not guilty" after the "prosecution rested" in that case (haha,  laughing because those are not terms used in a lawsuit). 

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