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S12.E20: Trigger Happy

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well remember - Ben had something out of town, remember, and he gave it up and Bailey was WTF? no. go to LA, we'll make it work somehow coz we luuvvvv each other. Ben came back because he was tired of living so far apart. (heh bet he regrets that now right?)

 

and to be fair - Ben/Bailey are married and known each other for years. 

Callie's known Penny for like what? 6 months?

 

(not that it justifies the comment, but...)

 

It doesn't, but the argument is better that Callie's making a lot of changes and uprooting several lives for someone she barely knows -- not for someone who's just *shudder* a resident.

 

And if I recall, Bailey freaked out over Ben wanting to leave his job in LA and come back because she thought he was up and quitting the profession altogether and she feared that she had found herself in another Tucker situation of being with someone who didn't "get" the job and, eventually, wouldn't get hers either. But now, the reason I hesitate to think she would give up her job to follow him is because now -- now! -- she's the Chief Of Surgery (cue fanfare) and I'm getting the sense that it's going to her head.

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I just want someone to come out and clarify whether Arizona has legal parental rights over Sofia or not. Her feelings about the situation are completely valid either way, but if she has no legal claim to Sofia as a mother then she has no case.

 

Obviously it will matter a lot in court (and from the look of it, she doesn't and is going to lose the case), but I don't think it's that important in the context of their relationship.

If Callie treated Arizona like a caring ex-stepmom (which was a realistic possibility), telling her that she's moving and taking Sofia but she's free to visit any time would be more than thoughtful on her side. But, the show went out of its way repeatedly to show that their both mothers, so I don't see how they'll ever be able to look at each other the same way now it's clear that their views on Arizona's role as a parent differ that much.

When April had that huge argument with Jackson and slammed the door in his face, she at least acknowledged that he's the father and is going to have full rights once the baby is born. I don't see any such upside here. 

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But Alex didn't even know it was there, so it wasn't that obvious.  And actually that was my one problem with Jo - if you have a gun in a house, your partner better know about it.  Well, two, because her reasons for caving in the end were stupid.  I'm not a bad guy, but if I was, under the bed isn't really where I would start during a smash and grab.

 

I don't know if it's believable that Alex wouldn't know about it because, well, guys don't clean so he probably never thought to peek under the bed -- any bed -- in his life, or not believable because how could he never have noticed it under the bed? I mostly think it's just contrivance. Personally I think it would have been more logical for Jo to keep the box in a closet or in the back of a drawer or something, but they had her say it was under the bed just to illustrate how right there it was and Alex had no clue (believable or not).

 

And no, I imagine in a "smash and grab" robbery most burglars will just grab whatever's out right in front of their faces and wouldn't spend too much time opening a lot of drawers or looking under furniture. But if they did care to do that, knowing that some valuables are probably not sitting out right on top of the dresser, they would probably peek under the bed. It doesn't take a lot of trouble to bend down really quick and look. A box tucked away on the back of the top shelf of the closet behind other things at least would require some effort to even be able to notice.

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It doesn't, but the argument is better that Callie's making a lot of changes and uprooting several lives for someone she barely knows -- not for someone who's just *shudder* a resident.

 

And if I recall, Bailey freaked out over Ben wanting to leave his job in LA and come back because she thought he was up and quitting the profession altogether and she feared that she had found herself in another Tucker situation of being with someone who didn't "get" the job and, eventually, wouldn't get hers either. But now, the reason I hesitate to think she would give up her job to follow him is because now -- now! -- she's the Chief Of Surgery (cue fanfare) and I'm getting the sense that it's going to her head.

 

 

hm. that's true. you're right. 

and the only thing that would make Bailey quit CoS is another Gary Clark situation. and even then, I'd wonder. 

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When will TV docs realize that saying "G-S-W" takes more time than saying "gunshot wound"?

 

I'd forgotten this teasing, smiling Meredith. It was nice to see her back again.

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When will TV docs realize that saying "G-S-W" takes more time than saying "gunshot wound"?

 

I've been complaining about that since "ER." It's only a time-saver on paper, folks.

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I quit watching after about ep. 2 in season 9, but recently have started catching up on Netflix and simultaneously watching the new episodes. So I just watched the eps where Bailey gave the boy with SCID some enzyme/gene therapy [using deactivated HIV or something] against the parents' wishes.  Then Stephanie ends up taking the blame. The thing that struck me re Bailey/Ben is that he got 6 months suspension for his bad decision, and Bailey either skated completely or got 1 week suspension [or maybe Steph got the suspension, I can't remember].  It just seems like Bailey has completely forgotten that she made a supremely bad decision & it was just lucky that hers cured the kid, while Ben's decision caused 2 deaths.  Bailey is ignoring her previous bad judgment and the fact that no one, neither she nor Stephanie, had any real repercussions.  [And don't get me started on Izzy not having anything much happen to her after she lied to UNOS & cut Denny's LVAD in an attempt to get him a heart.]

 

Maggie really irritated me with the way she went after the babysitter.  I agree with a previous poster - I thought she was going to reveal some gun violence/loss in her past. 

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Okay but I replayed the scene ten times and the kid, the one who shot his friend, after his conversation with Amelia in which she wants him to promise he will say "I didn't mean to" whenever he feels bad, when he turns around while his mom is leading him away, what he says is: "I meant to".

It's at 32'37.

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I agree that everyone clutching their pearls when Jo said she had a gun was absurd.

 

 

I thought everyone handled it better than I thought they would.  I thought for sure that Alex was going to berate her in front of all the other attendings and be completely condescending to her and then everyone else would chime in on the shaming.  It is Jo after all, and the writers don't usually pass up an opportunity to make her look incompetent and unlikeable.  (Although the shoebox under the bed veers a little too close to incompetent for my liking, but whatever.)  I do wish, though, that when her background comes up she could say something other than "I used to live in my car."  We got it.  She has also apparently been in and out of foster car and been sexually assaulted, so I would prefer for some of that to get explored instead.

 

Was there ever a resolution to the catfishing couple, other than calling security?  If not, this is the second time in recent episodes where a patient gets introduced and then we never get a conclusion.  Last time it was the guy with the hernia.  

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I don't know, I keep thinking if Mark were still alive, and Callie talked to him about this decision with Sofia, would she have had the same attitude? Would she have made her decision so lightly, taken for granted so easily that Mark would just go along with her plans, assumed he would have no real say in the matter of his daughter moving 3,000 miles away?

It's a good question but ultimately, I think that she would do the same thing to Mark.  I haven't watched seasons 7-8 in a while to really say, but I seem to remember Callie brushing off Mark a lot in terms of parenting stuff as well.  He was the one who pushed to be involved.  I feel like Callie treated Arizona more of a parent than she did Mark back then, but please someone with more knowledge of those season chime in.  

 

I just want someone to come out and clarify whether Arizona has legal parental rights over Sofia or not. Her feelings about the situation are completely valid either way, but if she has no legal claim to Sofia as a mother then she has no case.

I wish they would do this too because really no one knows exactly what the situation is.  But, i feel like Arizona HAS to have legal parental rights or this case would be a non-starter and the lawyer would have turned her away.  Being formerly married to a child's parent doesn't give you any legal rights over them, whether gay or straight, man or woman- at least as far as I know.  

Edited by Greysaddict
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Was there ever a resolution to the catfishing couple, other than calling security?  If not, this is the second time in recent episodes where a patient gets introduced and then we never get a conclusion.  Last time it was the guy with the hernia.

 

The patient's tumor was benign, and was never actually thought to be malignant (which is the lie she told to her pen pal, that she was dying).  So her medical case was resolved, but the last we saw of them they were fighting and Meredith was standing in the doorway watching.  She finally practically whispered a very weak "security" instead of yelling out for "Security!"

Edited by izabella

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I'm really beginning to think that this whole custody battle thing is a way for Callie and Arizona's dirty laundry to be aired in an episode long info dump, because it would have to be under oath, and nothing will actually come of it. Except for Penny realizing their collective issues and running for the hills.

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I'm really beginning to think that this whole custody battle thing is a way for Callie and Arizona's dirty laundry to be aired in an episode long info dump, because it would have to be under oath, and nothing will actually come of it. Except for Penny realizing their collective issues and running for the hills.

Yes, there is NO way that Penny isn't going to be the selfless martyr in this whole mess.  

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Okay but I replayed the scene ten times and the kid, the one who shot his friend, after his conversation with Amelia in which she wants him to promise he will say "I didn't mean to" whenever he feels bad, when he turns around while his mom is leading him away, what he says is: "I meant to".

It's at 32'37.

I couldn't tell what he was saying.  Did Amelia catch that? 

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Grey's is less enjoyable for me when they try to do these Very Special Episodes. Yeah, we get it. Shonda doesn't like guns. Did she think this would be like the 90210 episode where Scott accidentally shot himself and everyone was like OMG!

 

If you are going to have a gun then you need to be a responsible gun owner. Think of Dwight K. Schrute hiding weapons all over the office and then do the opposite of that. One of Mr. EB's friends grew up in Berkeley (which is about as anti-gun as you can get) and her father owned guns. She was taught from a very early age that it was not a toy. He taught her how to shoot them, how to clean them, and how to respect them. She never took one out without his permission. She never invited her male friends over and then let them play with her dad's guns. Neither did her brother. I'm not saying that you need to start telling your kids about guns before they're old enough to walk, but I also think that locking them up (which you should do) is not where responsible gun ownership begins and ends. It shouldn't be a secret. Locking them up isn't enough to keep them a secret either. The kids should know that they exist and they should know that they're not supposed to play with them the same way that kids know there are sharp knives and boiling water in the kitchen. You can't just pretend that if you don't tell the kids about them that they won't know they're in the house.

 

Side note: you know what isn't responsible gun ownership? Keeping your gun in a shoe box under your bed. Hear that, Jo?

 

 

As a southern woman who grew up in a gun/hunting household, this. 1000x this.  I don't keep guns in my home because I'm not a gun person, but from a young age, I was taught gun safety. My family kept/keeps their guns in a locked safe, unloaded.  Before anyone can handle a gun solo, you have to take a gun safety course.  Although we don't have guns in my home, my children have been taught gun safety from the time they had awareness of what a gun is.  My children know not to even point a stick at someone and say bang. We don't even play shoot people.  

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I think Arizona MUST have legal parenting rights to Sofia and officially adopted her at some point. Because if she doesn't, she would have no legal standing to make Callie do anything with regards to Sofia, and this whole story would be pointless. She would be the equivalent of a stepmother, and step parents don't get a say in how their ex step children are raised in the event of a divorce. 

 

And whether or not it is right or fair, before the end of this storyline, I fully expect Callie to assert that since only SHE is Sofia's biological parent, she has final say in everything. I would honestly be shocked if she doesn't, because I think it would be keeping in character for her to do so. 

Edited by ForeverAlone

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Years ago, my apartment was broken into in the middle of the night while my boyfriend and I were sleeping.  The thief came into our third story apartment by climbing up and then onto our terrace which I used to leave unlocked so my cat could go out use the letterbox and hang out, outside (never again after that night, obviously).

 

He took a few items and left through the front door.  We didn't know a thing until the morning.  He had gotten into 3 of the 4 apartment units - quite prolific as a thief.

 

When the police came to take the report, my boyfriend (to my horror) asked whether a gun was a good idea - the cop said, having a gun can cause all sorts of unexpected stuff - one being the thief coming into your room (and, if not armed) attacking you before you can fire and grabbing the gun and wind up killing/hurting the victims they had not planned on harming and that if you did have a gun in hand when confronting the person, be prepared to shoot and keep firing until gun is empty - We chose to not get one as we just felt with the adrenalin pumping, fear, whateveretc., too many bad scenarios could happen so, for us, that was not a choice.

 

The cop also said it is best if it is the middle of the night, you hear something - just stay put - don't come out to confront the thief as most (not all, of course) are there to steal not kill - but, when a confrontation happens, bad things can happen. 

 

Another good piece of advice from him was not to get one of those locks for the door that needs a key when leaving as it does when entering.  He said the last thing you want is if the thief got in another way (as in our situation or through a window), you want him/her to leave with ease, not get crazy frustrated because they can't leave which all again can escalate into something bad happening they didn't plan on.

 

This is all - obviously - about our particular type of situation.  I know there are countless others.  But, I had been considering that sort of lock so was happy to get that bit of advice.

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It doesn't, but the argument is better that Callie's making a lot of changes and uprooting several lives for someone she barely knows -- not for someone who's just *shudder* a resident.

I hated the "piece of tail" comment, but I think Bailey's point was valid even with respect to the reference to Penny being a resident.  Penny is not even finished with her medical education and is heading to NY for a fellowship that is meant to be a year, meaning she may yet move again and not necessarily back to Seattle.  Callie is CHIEF of ortho. 

 

So in sum, setting aside the issue with custody and Arizona (which is a really big deal) and just looking at it as to Callie and to a lesser extent Sophia, the whole thing is stunning. Callie is planning to:

  1. Move herself and her daughter across the country for a woman she's been dating for mere months and hasn't even lived with to date as evidenced by the fact that she only introduced Penny to Sophia in the last month. (Does Callie plan to cohabitate with Penny in NY?  That would also be a big change for Sophia - going from sundaes and burgers to new parental unit in the space of weeks.)
  2. Take a major step back in her own career which she may never regain to follow a woman whom, again, she's been dating for a few months.
  3. And all of this is so they won't be apart for a year?  A year in which Callie could easily visit?

 

I'm not saying there are no circumstance where your relationship with someone might warrant some or maybe all of these changes, but this seems pretty scant.  And while "piece of tail" is offensive, I think the point Bailey was making was close to what we've all be saying, that Callie has a barely established relationship with this woman.  Penny has not been integrated into their lives in a way that makes any of this make sense.  Callie's commitment-philia has turned her brain to pudding.

 

As to the custody, I was sort of stunned that Callie 1) didn't realize that Penny is not in a position get involved in the custody issues so much that Penny had to tell her that and 2) that Penny telling her then didn't make any impression on her about how not a part of Sophia's life Penny is. And while I appreciate that Callie made her little conciliatory speech at the end, she had gone SO far past the okay line at that point that it was too little too late.  Arizona was prepared to take a step back and talk until she got the call from the school.  Callie had gone so far as to putting in applications to schools before they'd even discussed it.  This means that even Callie's cart-before-the-horse attempt to meet for coffee and discuss schools was borderline specious since Callie had already picked some and applied.  There is no way Arizona gets that call so soon if Callie hadn't put in application days (in reality, likely weeks) before.

 

I agree with whomever up-thread said that Callie would have done this to Mark too.  Partly, it's just Callie's personality to just do the thing and expect others will fall in line. But also, I feel like in Callie's mind she, Arizona, and Mark are/were all Sophia's parents, but that she, Callie, was always the most parent.  Mark had rights by biology, Arizona has right by love, and she had both.  But that's not really a thing.   And I feel like at this point Arizona has to have legal standing.  Because there was never a question of her rights during the divorce and I cannot imagine that at no point during the separation or divorce, which was reasonably amicable for a divorce, but still, would Callie have asserted her "superior right" considering she obviously feels it emotionally if Arizona didn't have rights legally. But I guess we'll see.

 

As for the rest of the show, Amelia was making me like her again. She was really good with the little boy. And I'm fairly certain he was saying "I didn't mean to" to her.  Whatever it may have looked like to some, him saying he meant to would have been totally out of left field and part of a very different story.  

 

I even liked Amelia as she was comforting Owen even in the midst of my being pissed at him.  I knew it would turn out that some of his rage at Nathan was misdirected anger at himself.  But that doesn't make his attitude or behavior any more acceptable.  It makes him more pitiable I suppose, but I'm too annoyed to pity him anyhow. 

 

I generally like Maggie and got where she was coming from, but some of her reactions felt a little over the top.  I actually don't even mean the yelling at the babysitter.  Though I was relieved that she back down and apologized when she realized what she was doing. That part was a pretty understandable freak-out manifesting as anger.  It was her breakdown after about FEELING SO MUCH.  I'm sort of tired of everyone on this show being an emotional cripple.

Edited by RachelKM
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When will TV docs realize that saying "G-S-W" takes more time than saying "gunshot wound"?

 

I'd forgotten this teasing, smiling Meredith. It was nice to see her back again.

Hospitals use that code as well as Niqu for neonatal intensive care. I like it that they do try to get some things right. My husband works on public safety in a big hospital and talks about GSW's daily (we are in Chicago and people are shot daily).

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A conversation about what? They did talk. And Callie made it perfectly clear she had already decided she's taking Sofia with her. What else was Arizona supposed to do, other than simply accept it and give up?

 

I agree that everyone clutching their pearls when Jo said she had a gun was absurd. 

Arizona saw a lawyer last episode. So no, they didn't talk.  Callie told her plans and Arizona went straight to a lawyer.  Her response should have been Callie when I told you to make it work with Penny...I didn't mean take our daughter out of the state.  We need to discuss it.  Not let me find an attorney first.  An attorney should have been her last resort not her first inclination. 

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Arizona saw a lawyer last episode. So no, they didn't talk.  Callie told her plans and Arizona went straight to a lawyer.  Her response should have been Callie when I told you to make it work with Penny...I didn't mean take our daughter out of the state.  We need to discuss it.  Not let me find an attorney first.  An attorney should have been her last resort not her first inclination. 

Callie essentially announced her plans and walked away.  Arizona was clearly stunned.  So I don't fault her for not speaking up then.  Sure she could have tracked Callie down later in the day to confront her, but I actually have no problem with Arizona talking to a lawyer and finding out what her options were before having the conversation.  I'm a person who likes to know facts and what my rights and options are before I talk to someone about something potentially serious.  But then, I am a lawyer.

 

It was clear from the opening scene for this episode that all Arizona did was get information from the lawyer. She didn't file anything or go immediately to "talk to my lawyer."  She sat down with Callie expecting to have a discussion and Callie fanned school brochures out in front of her like it was decided but for the school applications. And Arizona still didn't seem like she was necessarily intending any legal action and was pretty much talked out of it at all by Webber until she got the phone call from one of the schools establishing that Callie had taken actual steps before even the conversation that morning. 

Edited by RachelKM
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Callie essentially announced her plans and walked away.  Arizona was clearly stunned.  So I don't fault her for not speaking up then.  Sure she could have tracked Callie down later in the day to confront her, but I actually have no problem with Arizona talking to a lawyer and finding out what her options were before having the conversation.  I'm a person who likes to know facts and what my rights and options are before I talk to someone about something potentially serious.  But then, I am a lawyer.

 

It was clear from the opening scene for this episode that all Arizona did was get information from the lawyer. She didn't file anything or go immediately to "talk to my lawyer."  She sat down with Callie expecting to have a discussion and Callie fanned school brochures out in front of her like it was decided but for the school applications. And Arizona still didn't seem like she was necessarily intending any legal action and was pretty much talked out of it at all by Webber until she got the phone call from one of the schools establishing that Callie had taken actual steps before even the conversation that morning. 

 

My point is why did she need options from a lawyer before she actually discussed it with Callie?  For the most part,these two are on good terms.  I mean I realize part of any show is manufactured drama and there would be no drama if people actually had discussions.  But I thought it was odd that her first step with an attorney even for information.  But I agree that Callie is completely obtuse to even consider a decision like this without getting Arizona's okay. 

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It's a good question but ultimately, I think that she would do the same thing to Mark.  I haven't watched seasons 7-8 in a while to really say, but I seem to remember Callie brushing off Mark a lot in terms of parenting stuff as well.  He was the one who pushed to be involved.  I feel like Callie treated Arizona more of a parent than she did Mark back then, but please someone with more knowledge of those season chime in.  

 

I agree and disagree.  Callie is not the best at the shared parenting and I think that she has always considered herself the alpha parent.  However, I think that she might have handled things a little differently with Mark, simply because it is far more in character for Mark to fight back.  Callie isn't really a character who stands up to confrontation well--which is probably why she went on the assumption that Arizona was okay with her moving away with Sofia rather than actually asking about it--and Mark was definitely more comfortable with confrontation than Arizona.  So, because of that, I think the situation would have played out differently had it been Mark and not Arizona who is the "other" parent.

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I couldn't tell what he was saying.  Did Amelia catch that? 

 

I thought so. I thought she looked taken aback.

 

I'm almost doubting myself now, it's so... crazy and, no one has even remarked on it! I clipped and uploaded it here: am I misreading it??

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I thought so. I thought she looked taken aback.

 

I'm almost doubting myself now, it's so... crazy and, no one has even remarked on it! I clipped and uploaded it here: am I misreading it??

 

Looks like "I didn't mean to" to me. Your mouth doesn't really move much when saying "didn't" so it could look like "I ... mean(t) to" but, to me, it makes very little sense for him to have done it on purpose or admit it there, and Amelia doesn't look like she has any reaction at all. So I'm going with he's just doing what she asked him to do: Repeating "I didn't mean to." And Amelia just looks like she's wearing the same sad/distraught face she had the whole time she was talking to him.

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Please.  If Arizona has the documentation for full parental status and shared custody, Callie has WAY overshot her legal rights; if not, Arizona's a non-starter.

 

Meanwhile, Chief of Orthopedic Surgery Torres is suddenly so impetuous and irresponsible she'll uproot her daughter, sacrifice her professional status for a lesser position, fail to transition her patients and firebomb any number of personal bridges--all so she won't have to go a few months without seeing her girlfriend on a daily basis? 

 

I like Arizona and Callie duking it out over Sophia because I like both actors and that's a meaty storyline, plus true-life divorce, but the setup is just sloppy.

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Fucking Maggie. Meridith, for a change, looks genuinely happy and Maggie has to bring her mood down. Jesus shut up. It's not this amazing revelation that you care a lot about your nieces and nephews. Especially when you live with them either.

And Owen. Shut up for ever. All of this bullshit comes around to his own guilt. And even though Riggs fucked up, this isn't hid fault. It's not really any of their faults. You would think a grown ass man would dealt with this by now. I could understand even not generally wanting to be cool with Riggs but he can't even be a damn professional with him. It's nonsense.

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I agree and disagree. Callie is not the best at the shared parenting and I think that she has always considered herself the alpha parent. However, I think that she might have handled things a little differently with Mark, simply because it is far more in character for Mark to fight back. Callie isn't really a character who stands up to confrontation well--which is probably why she went on the assumption that Arizona was okay with her moving away with Sofia rather than actually asking about it--and Mark was definitely more comfortable with confrontation than Arizona. So, because of that, I think the situation would have played out differently had it been Mark and not Arizona who is the "other" parent.

I think season 6 Arizona would've stood up for herself (remember the Callie wanting to do long distance and move to Cleveland because she was too embarrassed to grovel to the Chief to get her job back but Arizona vetoed that storyline?)

But season 7 Arizona just went with it as a punishment to herself and then season 9 Arizona was so effed up mentally (and physically, no matter what the writers try to make us think now) that Callie got used to making all the decisions and when Arizona got "better" Callie didn't grow out of that the whole rest of their relationship and it caused a lot of the tension.

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I generally like Maggie and got where she was coming from, some of her reactions felt a little over the top.  I actually don't even mean the yelling at the babysitter.  Though I was relieved that she back down and apologized when she realized what she was doing. That part was a pretty understandable freak-out manifesting as anger.  It was her breakdown after about FEELING SO MUCH.  I'm sort of tired of everyone on this show being and emotional cripple.

 

I thought Maggie was way, way, WAY out of line with that baby-sitter.  She wasn't much more than a child herself, and it was certainly not Maggie's place to question her or to yell at her or to make her feel like a piece of shit who was neglecting the children.

 

I also have absolutely ZERO understanding why in the world Maggie would take this accident so personally that she would go off on a tirade as if any of it had anything to do with her, much less that she was in some kind of position to demand answers and offer judgment and criticism.  The mothers of those two boys certainly didn't attack the babysitter the way Maggie did.

 

If they're trying to sell the story that she was so very upset because she just wuvs Meredith's kids so very much, I call bullshit!  BULLSHIT!  Loving your nieces and nephews to pieces isn't in any way an understandable reason to verbally harangue and practically bitchslap a devastated teenager in the middle of the hospital about a situation that had NOTHING to do with you, your kids, or your nieces and nephews.  Everyone loves someone, or their children; that babysitter is someone's child as well.  Moreover, she had no idea she even needed to worry about a gun in the house, and Maggie should have STFU and never, ever approached her in the first place.

 

I have liked Maggie all along, but I was hoping Riggs would step in and punch her like she punched that mother a few episodes ago.

Edited by izabella
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Looks like "I didn't mean to" to me. Your mouth doesn't really move much when saying "didn't" so it could look like "I ... mean(t) to" but, to me, it makes very little sense for him to have done it on purpose or admit it there, and Amelia doesn't look like she has any reaction at all. So I'm going with he's just doing what she asked him to do: Repeating "I didn't mean to." And Amelia just looks like she's wearing the same sad/distraught face she had the whole time she was talking to him.

 

Well... I'll take your word for it! It does make way more sense that way.

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Also, what is it about Owen Hunt putting people on flying machines that causes them to disappear?

Some people have the weirdest hobbies!

 

Have Callie and Penny even lived together? I wouldn't dream of disrupting my kids or even just my own life to move across the country for someone I don't even know if I can live with. To go from being so causally dating you haven't even introduced your kid yet to moving across the country with them is...fucking insane.

 

I'm telling you all - glamour demon!

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If they're trying to sell the story that she was so very upset because she just wuvs Meredith's kids so very much, I call bullshit!  BULLSHIT!  Loving your nieces and nephews to pieces isn't in any way an understandable reason to verbally harangue and practically bitchslap a devastated teenager in the middle of the hospital about a situation that had NOTHING to do with you, your kids, or your nieces and nephews.  Everyone loves someone, or their children; that babysitter is someone's child as well.  Moreover, she had no idea she even needed to worry about a gun in the house, and Maggie should have STFU and never, ever approached her in the first place.

 

Preach! It was downright bizarre how she was behaving. Like I said, I kept thinking there must be a reason why she was being so irrational about it and thought she was going to say she had witnessed a similar incident as a child and a friend or a relative got killed and this case brought all the memories back, or something like that. But no, it was just because she cares so much. BS.

 

Have Callie and Penny even lived together? I wouldn't dream of disrupting my kids or even just my own life to move across the country for someone I don't even know if I can live with. To go from being so causally dating you haven't even introduced your kid yet to moving across the country with them is...fucking insane.

 

And not only that - she was so unprepared for her to meet Sofia that went and lied to her face about it. And now she's moving across the country for her and they're all going to live together.

That story is so contrived.  

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I thought Maggie was way, way, WAY out of line with that baby-sitter.  She wasn't much more than a child herself, and it was certainly not Maggie's place to question her or to yell at her or to make her feel like a piece of shit who was neglecting the children.

 

I also have absolutely ZERO understanding why in the world Maggie would take this accident so personally that she would go off on a tirade as if any of it had anything to do with her, much less that she was in some kind of position to demand answers and offer judgment and criticism.  The mothers of those two boys certainly didn't attack the babysitter the way Maggie did.

 

If they're trying to sell the story that she was so very upset because she just wuvs Meredith's kids so very much, I call bullshit!  BULLSHIT!  Loving your nieces and nephews to pieces isn't in any way an understandable reason to verbally harangue and practically bitchslap a devastated teenager in the middle of the hospital about a situation that had NOTHING to do with you, your kids, or your nieces and nephews.  Everyone loves someone, or their children; that babysitter is someone's child as well.  Moreover, she had no idea she even needed to worry about a gun in the house, and Maggie should have STFU and never, ever approached her in the first place.

 

I have liked Maggie all along, but I was hoping Riggs would step in and punch her like she punched that mother a few episodes ago.

What I think the writing was trying to get across is that Maggie suddenly has this extended family and children in her life which make her feel all these new connections, but also make her feel incredibly vulnerable.  And on the one had I get it.  I'm not even biologically related to my best friend's children whom I consider my nephews, and I am extremely protective of them (though not on the same level as my friend or her husband).  But Maggie was way over the top.  

 

And I guess I didn't explain myself very well as to the freak-out at the poor babysitter and in retrospect, I didn't think it through that well either.  If you feel that strongly, sometimes the freak-out comes out as anger that is obviously more about fear.  So I understand what that was.  But I agree that it was out of place from Maggie.  It would have made sense if it were actually Meredith's kids involved.  But the situation was a little attenuated for Maggie to internalize it so much.  And that was more what I was getting at.  I think the story was trying to show that Maggie is overwhelmed by all these feeling she's never had to sort through before.  But it's just so ridiculous that almost none of this educated, professional adults have ANY emotional tools.

Edited by RachelKM
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Have Callie and Penny even lived together? I wouldn't dream of disrupting my kids or even just my own life to move across the country for someone I don't even know if I can live with. To go from being so causally dating you haven't even introduced your kid yet to moving across the country with them is...fucking insane.

 

 

This is my main point. She really has known Penny for all of 5 seconds and she plans on changing not just her life, but her daughters life. I..can't understand. She is also as Bailey taking a step down professionally too by making this move. 

 

I feel like I have the unpopular opinion of understanding Bailey's problems with Ben. I think Ben has an issue about being the oldest person in his program at the hospital and that's why he's been getting all surgery happy as of late.  He needs counseling or to figure out what's going on with himself.  I don't think Bailey is in the wrong, I think she's concerned. 

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This is my main point. She really has known Penny for all of 5 seconds and she plans on changing not just her life, but her daughters life. I..can't understand. She is also as Bailey taking a step down professionally too by making this move.

It was pointed out to me that this may be Callie's not well thought out at all but well meaning, way of righting the wrongs that she went through with Arizona.

Arizona said I love you first, Callie said it back. Penny said I love you first, Callie couldn't say it back.

And now she's willing herself to be happy for a move that benefits her girlfriend's career instead of complaining about her girlfriend's move because of how it affects her career.

It may be subconscious, but it's what is happening and I think it's all because Callie doesn't want to admit defeat in another relationship.

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Callie does have a habit of going full steam ahead in relationships even when she may not be as happy with the situation as she pretends to be or wishes she were. George, anyone?

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It was pointed out to me that this may be Callie's not well thought out at all but well meaning, way of righting the wrongs that she went through with Arizona.

Arizona said I love you first, Callie said it back. Penny said I love you first, Callie couldn't say it back.

And now she's willing herself to be happy for a move that benefits her girlfriend's career instead of complaining about her girlfriend's move because of how it affects her career.

It may be subconscious, but it's what is happening and I think it's all because Callie doesn't want to admit defeat in another relationship.

Spot on. I truly think deep down Callie knows this relationship is doomed, but is so scared of having another failed romance and being alone she's kidding herself its working. I also think the fact the Penny is so plain (no offense to the actress!) is a plus for Callie, she's so blah she's safe, and Callie wants safe right now.  

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My point is why did she need options from a lawyer before she actually discussed it with Callie?  For the most part,these two are on good terms. 

Well, so she would know which parts of what she feels is "right" are protected by law and which parts are hinged on love and emotional attachment.

 

It's very smart to be crystal clear about the difference before having a conversation with Callie about moving away with Sophia.

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Oh, Callie and Arizona.  The thing is, Callie's idea of a "discussion" is her getting Arizona to agree with what she wants, and her idea of compromise is Arizona being allowed to come visit whenever she wants.  This is why Callie bugs me and I am going to have a very hard time with her over the next few episodes 

This pretty much sums up why Callie bugs me, too. She seems to feel like just talking about something at all counts as somehow compromising, even if she's not giving an inch, and tends to act like the other person is being completely unreasonable for failing to just agree with her. And Arizona (often the one on the other side) doesn't seem to know how to respond to that, which I think has often been part of their communication problems. Callie steamrolls, Arizona basically lets her, and then, because she didn't fight back beyond possibly one or two feeble attempts at getting a word in edgewise, Callie behaves as though Arizona has endorsed whatever it is, and feels betrayed or whatever if it comes out later that Arizona is not in fact on board with whatever it is. They do have better chemistry than Callie has had with pretty much any of her other romantic/sexual partners (except perhaps Mark), but their relationship has sucked for a long time.

 

I agree and disagree.  Callie is not the best at the shared parenting and I think that she has always considered herself the alpha parent.  However, I think that she might have handled things a little differently with Mark, simply because it is far more in character for Mark to fight back.  Callie isn't really a character who stands up to confrontation well--which is probably why she went on the assumption that Arizona was okay with her moving away with Sofia rather than actually asking about it--and Mark was definitely more comfortable with confrontation than Arizona.  So, because of that, I think the situation would have played out differently had it been Mark and not Arizona who is the "other" parent.

I also found that Mark was one of the few people who seemed able to actually get her to see reason and compromise on things. So she might have tried it, but he'd have talked her down. 

 

I'm usually pretty good at seeing both sides of things, but I can't remotely wrap my head around Callie's position in this. If it were for a really great opportunity for her, maybe. And if that were the case, I think even Arizona would react differently to it. But it's also 100% certain that she would not for one second entertain the idea if it were Arizona trying to move away with Sofia. So it's just comes across as astonishingly obtuse, oblivious and self-centred.

 

Glad to see Jackson and April communicating, and Jo and Alex too. And Meredith's reaction to Steph's text? Hilarious.

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This pretty much sums up why Callie bugs me, too. She seems to feel like just talking about something at all counts as somehow compromising, even if she's not giving an inch, and tends to act like the other person is being completely unreasonable for failing to just agree with her. And Arizona (often the one on the other side) doesn't seem to know how to respond to that, which I think has often been part of their communication problems. Callie steamrolls, Arizona basically lets her, and then, because she didn't fight back beyond possibly one or two feeble attempts at getting a word in edgewise, Callie behaves as though Arizona has endorsed whatever it is, and feels betrayed or whatever if it comes out later that Arizona is not in fact on board with whatever it is. They do have better chemistry than Callie has had with pretty much any of her other romantic/sexual partners (except perhaps Mark), but their relationship has sucked for a long time.

I agree with everything you said.

IMO, pre-Arizona/Calzona, Callie was the butt of most jokes, got the short end of the stick in story lines that she was involved in and stuff was rarely ever told in her point of view. After Arizona came along and they became a couple, Callie found her voice, was strong and walked tall. Calzona was great in terms of effectively communicating with one another, supporting one another and working things out with each other without relying too heavily on a 3rd party's POV of their situation. And then! Africa happened, and things totally shifted. Callie was the decision maker and Arizona took the back seat, the doormat, the good wife. Maybe it was self-imposed punishment for going to Africa without Callie. Whatever it was, she lost her voice, her POV and pretty much everything revolved around making Callie and her "dream" happy. If Arizona ever did make her own decision, she felt bad about it soon after and Callie would get her way. This continued until the plane crash. The plane crash ruined Arizona, mentally and physically. It also brought about change in her attitude towards Callie. She resented her and refused to go along with any of her decisions. Ultimately, she made the worst mistake of cheating on Callie (which I believe was way OOC and sacrificed the character for the sake of Drama! Thrills!). And once again, Arizona was back to being the doormat. It was her own never-ending carousel. But finally... the divorce happened. After the divorce though, I believe both Callie and Arizona have found their original selves; with Arizona finding her voice and refusing to be bulldozed by Callie and her desires. So right now, they are both on an even playing field.

 

I don't know if Shonda is gonna bring these two back together, but if they really are end-game, I have no idea how they're gonna come back from a bitter custody battle. 

 

I also found that Mark was one of the few people who seemed able to actually get her to see reason and compromise on things. So she might have tried it, but he'd have talked her down.

 Mark was Callie's best friend. Friendships are always given the best treatment on Greys. I guarantee that if Mark and Callie were romantically involved, Shonda would have screwed up their relationship big time.

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My point is why did she need options from a lawyer before she actually discussed it with Callie?  For the most part,these two are on good terms.  I mean I realize part of any show is manufactured drama and there would be no drama if people actually had discussions.  But I thought it was odd that her first step with an attorney even for information.  But I agree that Callie is completely obtuse to even consider a decision like this without getting Arizona's okay. 

 

Remember, Arizona had just been in that lawyers office with April talking about custody. I think since she had met this woman, and knew she could help, it made sense that she'd go back and ask some questions. It would be different if she went off and did research on who might be a good custody lawyer. 

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I think if Mark was alive and the Callie taking Sophia with her to New York for Penny wouldn't be an option, actually. I don't think Callie would have considered taking Marks child away from him like that. It would probably be a discussion of when Sophia would come and go to Seattle from New York or I doubt very much Callie would consider the option of moving there at all. 

 

This season really makes me miss Mark. And Lexie. (Lifetime played their final episodes of Greys this week and I remembered being so sad about Lexie dying like 15 minutes in on that season finale. That may be the last time this show got a real honest moment from me, I wasn't even all that shocked when Derek died I was kind of confused because I remember reading like a few months before that PD and EP had signed contracts for another couple years and then he went and died but I wasn't all that sad).

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Speaking of Lexie, it's odd how basically everyone who's ever starred on this show (with the possible exception of Erica Hahn) gets referenced more often than she does. I think she was mentioned only once, and indirectly at that, since Maggie arrived. It's like, Meredith got a replacement sister, so let's all pretend the earlier one never existed. 

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I completely understand why Arizona got a lawyer. That's what you do when you think you are being railroaded.  Did Callie's brain shrink since she's been with Penny?  Even Penny knew she had to keep out of the argument.

 

I thought they did a good job with the gun story and Jo's explanation why she has a gun. I don't live in the U.S. so the obsession with the right to own a gun is completely beyond me, especially since most people are killed by accident.     If I were a college professor, I'd find another job now that guns are being allowed on campuses.  The last thing want with a student angry at you is a student who angry at you and is carrying a gun.

 

Whatever they are trying to do with Owen/Riggs and Owen/Amelia, it's become a complete fail.  As bad as Callie/Penny.

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Re: Why Maggie went off on the Babysitter. 


Maggie explained it. It was lame-o, but it's not just that she has feels for Mere's extended family. It's that she's been a babysitter for the kids. And how she turned away for one second, and Bailey dumped an entire bag of flour on the floor. And how before it's amusing, but now she's like what it if it had been boiling water, or something dangerous etc etc etc.

 

I mean like i said. lame as heck, but she was pretty much thinking of that moment + the uber duber love for the kids and whatever. 

still doesn't justify it though. 

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Speaking of Lexie, it's odd how basically everyone who's ever starred on this show (with the possible exception of Erica Hahn) gets referenced more often than she does. I think she was mentioned only once, and indirectly at that, since Maggie arrived. It's like, Meredith got a replacement sister, so let's all pretend the earlier one never existed. 

They really don't mention Lexie at all. I can only remember the last time I remember hearing about Meredith's sister was when Neve Campbell came to donate parts of her leg to help Derek's hand and called Mer on being anti The Shepherd sisters calling to see them and shutting them out, she tried to ask about her sister on the plane and Meredith just shut her down and refused to talk about it. I don't even think it's been mentioned to Maggie like, "Oh, BTW, you are the 2nd half sister to appear at my workplace!" like, it's kind of a thing. 

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Liked: 

- The Meredith / Steph storyline. It was fun. 

- Acknowledging some of the issues I've had with the season (Richard pointing out how terribly April & Jackson communicated as a cautionary tale for Arizona, Bailey pointing out that Callie was throwing away her own career for a resident.) 

- Seeing Meredith's kids!

- The continuation of a calm, level-headed Amelia. 

- Jo and Alex's last scene was nice. More of that please!!!!

 

Meh: 

- Ben and Bailey 

 

Disliked: 

- How heavy-handed some of the gun stuff was (the music choices felt especially cheesy) 

- Maggie badgering the babysitter / her random "I love your kids so much!" stuff. 

- Owen's 'revelation' at the end. That story is so, so boring at this point and nothing that's been said in the last several episodes has really added any depth or sympathy for either he or Riggs. Lets just get on with in, shall we? 

- Wherever the Callie / Arizona story is going..... 

 

I agree with you here for the most part except that I don't really care much about seeing Meredith's kids and I'm actually interested in seeing the custody battle play out. As most people in this thread have stated, I'm on Arizona's side with this one. Which is saying a lot because I've never been her biggest fan but she has grown on me a lot this season.

I also agree that Maggie's "I love your kids SO much" thing was a bit odd... While I get where they were going with it, I'm not sold. I'm not a mother but I'm a (fantastic) aunt and I do love my nieces and nephews with all my heart and it would be nice for that to be recognised on TV in some way because as another poster said, aunt and uncles don't get that kind of recognition. But it was too over the top from her in this case.

 

What has Shonda put in the TV vapors? I liked Amelia again; I think this is the third week in a row. Still can't stand Penny, so maybe I haven't gone to the dark side yet.

The gun stuff felt very heavy-handed to me. I'm from the South, so I know people who own guns, but it seemed that everyone was behaving as if the idea of knowing someone who owns a gun is just inconceivable. It didn't hit me until at least an hour after the episode ended that most (at least many) of them were in the hospital during the shooting, so maybe that experience colored their perception a bit, but it seemed a bit unrealistic. The PSA at the end was great, and made a bigger impact for me than some of the PSA-like dialogue.

And was it just me, or did anyone else worry that Jo's gun was going to fall off the bed and end up shooting Jo or Alex?

What have they done with Callie? I know she's generally an idiot in the realm of romance, but ugh! I have more chemistry with my couch than Callie has with Penny. And I'm pretty sure my couch is also a better actor than Penny. Team Arizona all the way on this issue. If my ex unilaterally decided to move across the country and take our kid, to the point of submitting school applications for the kid, and then decided to have a conversation about it, I doubt I would've been as calm as Arizona.

Glad to see Japril making tentative moves toward a peaceful relationship; I hope it lasts. And I liked smiling Meredith. She and Edwards were cute together.

 

I hope they don't ruin Amelia again. She's gotten a lot less angry and so much quieter now. I really appreciate it.

Also agree that the gun related story was a bit heavy-handed. That first scene REALLY annoyed me when EVERY head of the surgical sub-units was there. SERIOUSLY?!?!? No. Just no. And they know the country that they live in, the stats are not a secret. So why be surprised that you know people who own guns? **sigh** Give me a break. And this is coming from an anti-gun person. It was just not realistic.

All of that aside however, I did like the episode. Some folks aren't fond of Wilmer, and I thought I'd be in that camp but I don't mind him here. I think I sit at a table alone being a Stephanie fan - I actually did like her and Jackson together (he's so yummy!) and I think it did really hurt her when he chose April. So I'm glad to see her moving on. Also love both sides of Mer - crazy and "normal" - and it was nice to see less crazy and more "normal" :)

What I do like is seeing Jackson and April being civil but I'm not hoping for a reconciliation there. I don't think she deserves him. 

 

Okay but I replayed the scene ten times and the kid, the one who shot his friend, after his conversation with Amelia in which she wants him to promise he will say "I didn't mean to" whenever he feels bad, when he turns around while his mom is leading him away, what he says is: "I meant to".

It's at 32'37.

 

I SAW THAT TOO! I was so confused because I could swear that was what it looked like and Amelia's face seemed to change once she saw what he said. But then she wouldn't have left it there, she would've told someone. So maybe we saw wrong. Even after watching your video of the scene again, I'm even more certain he said that he meant to. Which, to me, kinda makes sense because they aren't babies. They're 8 years old. I can't believe they were totally clueless. He also didn't see that upset about the whole situation to be honest. But maybe I am just overthinking it.

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I liked this episode. It reminded me why I rooted for Calzona once because boy sara and jcap are literal fire. even when they're disagreeing, there's so much intensity, depth and feelings their that it puts even the supposed to be affectionate callie penny scenes to shame. I always thought sara ramirez can strike a chemistry with anyone but then they gave her a penny and it has been downhill ever since. im glad sara finally have something meaty to sink her teeths in this season.

jessica on other hand was so genuinely beautiful. that scene with Webber when she told him 'Callie's moving to ny", you can really see the anger on her face but also the pain in her eyes. brava.

i was glad bailey called callie out. because for ffs I can't understand callie at all. really she compared arizona being from a military family and moving with BOTH her parents and a sibling to her taking Sofia away from her?? she found an apartment, she enlisted sofia but nope she isn't planning on taking sofia away from arizona. does Callie thinks everyone is as shallow and thoughtless like her? ugh I can't with her. I'm glad Arizona got a lawyer because Callie is just going round and round with 'I'm not making a decision' when she sure as hell have.

i know arizona won't win but I'm all for her fighting for the thing she loves. sofia is all she is left with. I would have been damned if she hasn't fought.

the last scene though, i got chills with the way they stare each other down. i would be damned if this chemistry goes wasted for some loose change.

Ben and Bailey- meh. Forced drama. I don't know why Bailey isn't supportive of Ben.

Japril - I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Sisterhood- glad we got see the kids. they're trying to make Meredith Maggie what Mer & Lexie were and I'm not buying it.

I found it odd that Meredith pushes everyone to date and love, except jolex and Calzona. is it because she wants alex and Callie to be forever at her disposal?

Owen Riggs - yaaawwwnnn every episode it's a different revelation. It's so dragging it's annoying ugh.

Jolex - shouldn't Jo having a gun convo should have happened eons ago and the loft was bought by Jo, why the fuck Alex was all 'not in my house'. He never treats Jo respectfully.

Gun control - poorly handed story line. A show that's so diversed, of course the family keeping guns and kids playing with it are all white. thank you shonda, i really needed that to be told to my face.

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