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Tara Ariano

S03.E11: Nevermore

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Alie brings out Raven's dark side; Jasper's anger intensifies; and Octavia struggles with her place in the world. Meanwhile, Monty is forced to make a split-second decision.

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Maybe Monty will kill his mom.  What this show really needs is yet another female character killed off, especially when she's a person of color (sarcasm, in case anyone's confused).  Then the fandom can hold a lively debate about whether or not killing one's mom is matricide. 

 

Or it could just be something to do with incest.  It's really only a matter of time before this show gets to the incest trope.  I'm not even sure the fanfic world has started incest shipping for this show.  

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Jeez Jasper's gone right back to being a whiny baby after only an episode of likability. Now we're going to have Monty's manpain too?! Not the direction the show should be taking.

The best characters on this show are the complex women. Raven, Clarke, Octavia the show is best when they get the attention and actually get to do things instead of being reactionary characters in other people's stories.

That said, this may have been my favourite episode of the season. I liked seeing the Adventure Squad getting back together. And all the Raven stuff is my jam. Lindsey did such a good job again this week.

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That was the very first time that I actually believed the actor playing Monty might know how to act.  There was a good hint of emotion there.  

 

I agree about the show being at it's best when Clarke, Octavia and Raven are central.  Lindsey Morgan is amazing.  

 

Is this seriously the worst Bellamy is going to get?  

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In some ways I found the episode exciting, but only because the plot made the whole gang *idiots* for not gagging and hooding ALIERaven - seriously, how hard could that be?  Not that Lindsey Morgan didn't do a great job screaming and what not, but in terms of making unpleasant truths come out, the Angel episode where Angel was imprisoned as Angelus did it so much better (revealing Wesley's affections for Fred to her immediately followed by the revelation that he'd been hate-fucking Lila was perfectly cruel genius!). 

 

Also, usually I can tolerate Jasper, but his incessant snipes to Clarke were infuriating - like ALIERaven said, everyone has lost someone - and they only served to punctuate the fact that not *one* of the gang expressed any positive emotion about Clarke's return or concern about her wellbeing (or lack thereof).  I realize the episode's main (only?) plotline was the AI one, but was there no time for even a short exchange establishing what conditions she'd left Polis under?  And without that, it was slightly odd that apparently both Raven and Jasper knew/had worked out what Lexa meant to Clarke on a more-than-political-alliance level (at least, that's what I got from Raven taunting her with "I bet you even got Lexa killed" and Jasper saying "I can't do what you did" when he declined to destroy the chip).  Something just seemed skipped over there.

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I think Octavia was reading my mind when she was calling out Bellamy at the beginning of the show.

 

The best characters on this show are the complex women. Raven, Clarke, Octavia the show is best when they get the attention and actually get to do things instead of being reactionary characters in other people's stories.

 

Agreed on Octavia and Raven, but this season it feels like Clarke has been reduced to a plot device. "How are we going to introduce Roan and Ice Nation. Let's use Clarke!", "How are we going to tie together the Arkadia and Polis plots? How about Clarke. . . ". It feels like more running around, less agency for her.

 

 

Lindsey Morgan is amazing.  

 

The way she moves between Raven, Raven under the influence of ALIE, neutral ALIE, malevolent ALIE etc. is so impressive.

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Probably my favorite episode in quite some time, due to Raven being the center of it.  While I didn't understand why they didn't just keep her blindfolded and gagged (or use that knock-out syringe again.  Was that the last one?), I loved how ALIE Raven or whatever she was, kept getting into everyone's heads, and while clearly needling them, there was some truth into it.  My favorite ones were whenever she pointed out Bellamy's bodycount or how Jasper wasn't the only one who lost someone, but probably more interesting, why doesn't he blame Bellamy as much as Clarke?  Because, yeah, didn't they both pull that lever that doomed Maya and the rest?  So, why does Jasper treat Clarke like the worst of the worst, but is indifferent to Bellamy?

 

Either way, another stand-out episode for Lindsay Morgan.  These past two episodes have really been great for her.  The way she flipped between each version of ALIE and then her normal self, was awesome.  And she was pretty scary in a few of those; especially after she bit Clarke, and was just smiling with Clarke's blood still in her mouth.  I kind of understand why the show keeps putting poor Raven through hell, because Lindsay Morgan really commits!

 

I'm glad at least most everyone is still not letting Bellamy off for all the shit he did, and in particular, Octavia isn't giving him any inch.  He really seemed to think saving Octavia would be enough, and I loved how she was like "Well, no, dipshit!  You saved me because I'm your sister and you are selfish.  You didn't save me for the greater good or because it was the right thing to do!"  Because, yeah... it's nice and everything that he loves his sister enough to finally turn on Pike, but that's not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Does he expect a cookie or something?  And then him saying something about the Grounders could have easily attacked them, and Nyla was just "Well, you kind of didn't give them a chance, did you?"  Fucking hell, Bellamy.

 

It was cool seeing Nyla again.  It still isn't a little crazy that Jessica Harmon plays both her and Bozzio on iZombie.  She really looks different in both roles.  Although, this time, I did notice that she and Richard Harmon do have similar looks to them.  They have to find some way to have Nyla and Murphy meet up, right?!

 

For some reason, I'm kind of worried that Sinclair being the only adult in the group means something very bad is going to happen to him.

 

Monty now had to kill his mom, so now add him to the list of characters who will be probably feeling like shit from here on out.

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I'm not saying I didn't find it creepy as hell. I'm not saying it didn't nicely capture a horror movie vibe. I'm not saying that Lindsay Morgan wasn't amazing from beginning to end. And I'm not saying I wasn't grinning like a loon at the gang being back together. Especially the fact that it took Bellamy less than a second to, as Raven pointed out, become the Knight to Clarke's Queen (and that has always been my favourite thing ever). I'm also not saying I don't like the fact the show doesn't seem to be letting Bellamy off the hook while simultaneously reminding us that because he's a natural follower somebody else will always pay for his mistakes.

 

I'm just saying the whole thing felt a bit neat. Like Clarke running out of the dark at precisely the right time and Jasper taking Raven meant the whole gang was back together (oh, and Sinclair, who is so out of place in the original 100 gang that he's either doomed or has to leave the group next episode).

 

Also, everyone's attitude to Clarke is kind of annoying me. Aside from Bellamy's visible shoulder sag of relief at the fact that she's finally where she's supposed to be, everyone else treated her with indifference or active dislike. And, apart from Jasper, I really don't know why. Like when Octavia said last episode "Clarke's made her choice" with vehemence and I was left wondering what Clarke had done to annoy her that badly. Yeah, she didn't show up for their rendezvous but Octavia now knows Lexa was murdered so WTH?

 

Monty killing his mother was horrible. I mean, for him. She was the worst mother in the universe so I'm glad to see her dead. But now Monty has had to kill his own mother when she could have been saved. And the PTSD count goes up a notch. I know it doesn't make for good television, but these kids needs time to grieve. And shower. Definitely shower.

 

EDITED: Because what level of self-deception was Bellamy operating under that he thought he was one of the "good guys"? Good guys don't plan on slaughtering a village of civilians for their land, Bellamy. Even you knew that.

Edited by AudienceofOne
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I don't get how it's Clarke's fault her father is dead. From what I remember her Mother is the one who ratted out the man she "Loved". I always didn't like that about Abby. And at the beginning when Octavia was bitching out Bellamy I'm surprised Bellamy didn't throw out how Indra left her to die lol. I'm not saying Bellamy is in the right or anything but many of these characters have done bad things.

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In some ways I found the episode exciting, but only because the plot made the whole gang *idiots* for not gagging and hooding ALIERaven - seriously, how hard could that be?  Not that Lindsey Morgan didn't do a great job screaming and what not, but in terms of making unpleasant truths come out, the Angel episode where Angel was imprisoned as Angelus did it so much better (revealing Wesley's affections for Fred to her immediately followed by the revelation that he'd been hate-fucking Lila was perfectly cruel genius!). 

 

There were just so inept at keeping Raven tied up, how tough can it be ?  Or did they not have knot-tying classes on the Ark ?

 

And you know what would have kept Raven from messing with everyone's heads one at a time (it's like they all drew lots and took turns lining up for Raven/ALIE to do her best to screw with them) and biting people, how about a gag ?  Seriously, how tough would that have been ?

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This is the first episode of the season that I've enjoyed all the way through, if only because it focused on the core group and had them all working together again. I do admit that I've plugged my ears and shouted "lalalala" through Bellamy's arc this season, so the hastiness of his redemption is easier for me to swallow, but I can't help it. This show is so much more enjoyable without the adults around.

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This was or should have been the best episode since the season premiere, because finally we got focus on The 100 working together, I mean Sinclair is there, but it's mostly "the kids" and I liked that Monty reminded Octavia that when he said "we're your people" he meant The 100. 

 

Having said that the whole episode labors under all the contrived bullshit of the season, continuing to pretend that Bellamy participating in Pike's murder of 300 ALLIES is in any universe the "same" as Clark/Belllamy/Monty's gassing Mount Weather is still...bullshit. I was glad to hear and see Raven bring up all his ish but of course Nyla was not allowed to kick his ass, and she essentially acted like his therapist in that last interaction. God you suck Rothenberg.

 

Of course while it was predictable that Monty would have to kill his mother, IF the rest of the seasons had been written and executed better,  where we spent any time with Farm Station, got to know them, see their trauma at the hands of Ice Nation grounder, had they given Pike any nuance whatsoever than Monty killing his mom wouldn't just be one more awful thing on pile of awful things. I hope now Jasper can shut the fuck up about Maya, his best friend had to shoot his ALIE controlled mother to save Ocatavia. Of course it looks like he's already past that trauma, and we'll probably get zero of his POV on either Mt Weather OR his matricide. 

 

I think there is still more to come for Bellamy in terms of karmic balance for his jackassery, but since the only thing most people want to see for Bellamy is death w/o any hint of  redemption, nothing less would suffice. 

 

I sincerely hope they move forward together and defeat ALIE, Ontari, and Pike, and then they pretend the first half of the season never even occurred, because it was HOT GARBAGE.

 

 

And, apart from Jasper, I really don't know why. Like when Octavia said last episode "Clarke's made her choice" with vehemence and I was left wondering what Clarke had done to annoy her that badly.

 

Octavia has been anti-Clarke since Clarke and Lexa did nothing to save Trikru village from the annihilation of Mt. Weather's missile. 

Edited by blixie
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why doesn't he blame Bellamy as much as Clarke?  Because, yeah, didn't they both pull that lever that doomed Maya and the rest?  So, why does Jasper treat Clarke like the worst of the worst, but is indifferent to Bellamy?

 

Presumably for the same reason that it's only Clarke that the Grounders anointed "Wanheda" - at the end of S2, anyway, Clarke was seen as the leader of Skaikru by both her own people and the Grounders, so only she has gotten the credit/blame, because it's about the decision-making more than the carrying out of the deed.

 

when Octavia said last episode "Clarke's made her choice" with vehemence and I was left wondering what Clarke had done to annoy her that badly. Yeah, she didn't show up for their rendezvous but Octavia now knows Lexa was murdered so WTH?

 

The thing is - *does* Octavia know that?  Unless I missed it, all that the Arkers know is that Lexa is dead, not how she died, although it would be a good bet that it wasn't by natural causes.  But yeah, in any case, Octavia's grudge about the TonDC missile seems to be holding strong for her to offer Clarke *nothing*. 

 

There were just so inept at keeping Raven tied up, how tough can it be ?  Or did they not have knot-tying classes on the Ark ?

 

I can sort of handwave that maybe they didn't want to make the knots too tight because of her wrist wounds, but the lack of a gag was just a gigantic plothole to enable the main narrative to happen at all.

 

there is no redemption for Bellamy. His arc has just been mishandled and even a growing self-awareness cannot repair the damage they have done to his character. He better be the next character to die.

 

Yeah, definitely monumentally mishandled.  If they'd only had Bellamy be some sort of enabler that brought Pike to power, or even, say, supplied him with the guns that were used in the massacre rather than an active participant, he'd be redeemable to me, and there'd be space for him to be angsting over his moral failures.  But as it is, even his increased self-awareness in this episode was disgustingly partial, with him still insisting that because the Trikru army *might* have been able to attack Arkadia, the slaughter was justified.  In a way, Bellamy doesn't even deserve to die, since that would be the ultimate redemption, right?  But I can't see Bellamy being killed off while the series is still running; he's not quite Clarke-level main character, but he's the closest male character to that.  The show seems to be setting up having all his atrocities weighing on his soul bringing him closer to Clarke, who also carries the burden of many deaths - as if they're even remotely comparable. *gag* 

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Great episode for Raven, but I'm left with so many questions. Like, wow, is the WiFi between these little ALIE chips great or what? ALIE can't even find Raven through some form of triangulation/GPS, but manages to get a good enough signal that she can send a full hallucination through that little neck chip and can continue to download data from Raven.

 

On a related note, I initially thought that ALIE didn't know about Polis because ALIE had no way to communicate with anyone there. Now, I'm at a loss to understand why, if ALIE was so determined to find ALIE 2, she didn't load up one of the Grounders who stumbled into her mansion before (I'm assuming, given that the mansion was sparkly clean and given that the Grounders had clearly heard of the City of Light from someone), with her little chip and sent that Grounder into Polis to do some research. Or did she, and we're meant to believe that she couldn't find anything until the Arkers showed up?

 

Also, did anyone ever explain where and how they are getting the gas or electric charge for the tank, or do I just need to let this go?  And while I'm questioning things, I must note that the fate of Clarke's horse remains a mystery. I'm very worried about it.

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The show picks up nicely now that they moved away from the Pike arc, but there is no redemption for Bellamy. His arc has just been mishandled and even a growing self-awareness cannot repair the damage they have done to his character. He better be the next character to die.

 

...

As annoying as Jasper is, I think it's a fair to have one character who doesn't forgive as easily. The whole problem with the Bellamy storyline was that he is just like "okay, let's kill a bunch of people? Lincoln dead? I don't really care, because I am so sullen and tortured", so at least one character takes death harder. Though Raven was obviously on point with what she said about him.

Even the self-awareness you speak of took him until he came face to face with a stranger whose dad was one of the grounders killed. He was a dick to Indra, whose army he massacred and who was injured as a result--but I guess that's okay because he 'SAVED' her. He was STILL being absolutely douchey to Miller, Harper, Kane, and Octavia all through last episode. He was an ass to Octavia during this one as well. For me, it's not just the setup that destroyed Bellamy's character, it's his attitude after the fact as well. Like how dense do you have to be dude?! You could simply say he was refusing to admit it and compensating with his attitude, but I don't have the patienc with this arc to even entertain that idea.

 

Having said that the whole episode labors under all the contrived bullshit of the season, continuing to pretend that Bellamy participating in Pike's murder of 300 ALLIES is in any universe the "same" as Clark/Belllamy/Monty's gassing Mount Weather is still...bullshit. I was glad to hear and see Raven bring up all his ish but of course Nyla was not allowed to kick his ass, and she essentially acted like his therapist in that last interaction. God you suck Rothenberg.

 

...

I think there is still more to come for Bellamy in terms of karmic balance for his jackassery, but since the only thing most people want to see for Bellamy is death w/o any hint of  redemption, nothing less would suffice.

A lot of people are bringing up TonDC as a parallel as well, but I'm sorry, whatever you may think of that decision, it was still more tactically sound than the slaughter of 299 grounders. The situations were not made to be similar enough. Bellamy just looks like a tool and it is freaking frustrating to see no one react his actions realistically. He went out and shot up 299 people! Lincoln is dead and he hasn't given him a second thought--guess that relationship set up in Wanheda was bullshit. Bellamy is definitely getting off easy--he's lucky that the only serving family member of those he slaughtered he's likely to encounter is mild Niylah--anyone else and he'd be dead... Oh wait, except blood must not have blood now.

 

But as it is, even his increased self-awareness in this episode was disgustingly partial, with him still insisting that because the Trikru army *might* have been able to attack Arkadia, the slaughter was justified.  In a way, Bellamy doesn't even deserve to die, since that would be the ultimate redemption, right?  But I can't see Bellamy being killed off while the series is still running; he's not quite Clarke-level main character, but he's the closest male character to that.  The show seems to be setting up having all his atrocities weighing on his soul bringing him closer to Clarke, who also carries the burden of many deaths - as if they're even remotely comparable. *gag*

This is what's infuriating about all this--Finn had a shitty arc setup in season two, with ridiculous reactions to the massacre written for all of the Arkadians, but the payoff was in how it ended. Bellamy's arc was similarly constructed, with bullshit mild reactions, but we have to suffer through the bullshit because on a show where "anyone can die" they don't have the balls to kill off Bellamy.

If this season sees Bellamy, Pike, AND Jaha survive, and we have more casualties from the delinquents or Kane and Abby-- I'm gonna have absolutely nothing to look forward to next season.

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If this season sees Bellamy, Pike, AND Jaha survive, and we have more casualties from the delinquents or Kane and Abby-- I'm gonna have absolutely nothing to look forward to next season.

 

Taking this to the Spoiler thread...

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Having said that the whole episode labors under all the contrived bullshit of the season, continuing to pretend that Bellamy participating in Pike's murder of 300 ALLIES is in any universe the "same" as Clark/Belllamy/Monty's gassing Mount Weather is still...bullshit. I was glad to hear and see Raven bring up all his ish but of course Nyla was not allowed to kick his ass, and she essentially acted like his therapist in that last interaction. God you suck Rothenberg.

 

Well said. If we ignore the premise, this episode was so much better than everything after 03.04. The premise though is the elephant in the room and is virtually impossible to ignore. Also, how disgusting is that the "good guys" basically conquered Nylah's home because they needed her help and a hiding place? "Sorry we killed your dad but can you please help us?" Contrived and repellent. When Bellamy aimed his gun at Nylah I almost threw something at the TV. Why is he trusted with a gun after all the shitty things he has done and why didn't Clarke react more strongly? I hate it when writers bring up victims/relatives of victims of the currently redeemed characters and nothing happens but Bellamy and his ilk feeling slightly bad for about two seconds. "Anyone can die... but some still have a plot armour that never fails". I might have watched Nylah punching (or was it slapping, hard to tell) Bellamy a few too many times.

 

Speaking of contrivance, how the hell was Hannah able to kick Octavia's ass so easily? Is she a martial artist or something?

 

 

But as it is, even his increased self-awareness in this episode was disgustingly partial, with him still insisting that because the Trikru army *might* have been able to attack Arkadia, the slaughter was justified.

 

That line was so bad that it actually made me laugh instead of pissing me off. It's almost like the writers are trolling the fans who try to defend Bellamy actions: "Oh, you claim that Bellamy thought the attack was imminent and inevitable? Nah, he just thought it was possible. Have fun arguing against the people who want him to die horribly."

 

 

And you know what would have kept Raven from messing with everyone's heads one at a time (it's like they all drew lots and took turns lining up for Raven/ALIE to do her best to screw with them) and biting people, how about a gag ?  Seriously, how tough would that have been ?

 

Alas, common sense is something that doesn't come easy to these writers, I mean, characters. There was some decent characterization for a change and some things that needed to be said a long time ago were finally said but it is so tough to ignore the ridiculousness that was the presence of Bellamy and not gagging Raven.

 

I know Raven was the priority but it's rather weird no one expressed any curiosity about what was going on in Polis. Even if they don't care about the grounders, you would think they would want to know if Kane hadn't gone into a deadly trap.

 

Also, why was Monty acting as if he didn't have something to do with Lincoln's death too? Like he was genuinely shocked that Octavia didn't consider him a great friend.

 

 

The show seems to be setting up having all his atrocities weighing on his soul bringing him closer to Clarke, who also carries the burden of many deaths - as if they're even remotely comparable. *gag*

 

I kind of want to see them go there and have Bellamy and Clarke get closer in this hilariously misguided way and then even hook up. Just to see the internet explode in outrage once again. And to give me the strength to stop watching because honestly, I wanted to give some praise to the episode but now I see I have given it almost nothing but criticism, mostly because Bellamy annoys me so much that I start hating on the other characters for not putting a bullet in his head.

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
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If this season sees Bellamy, Pike, AND Jaha survive, and we have more casualties from the delinquents or Kane and Abby-- I'm gonna have absolutely nothing to look forward to next season.

 

I kind of want to see them go there and have Bellamy and Clarke get closer in this hilariously misguided way and then even hook up. Just to see the internet explode in outrage once again. And to give me the strength to stop watching because honestly, I wanted to give some praise to the episode but now I see I have given it almost nothing but criticism, mostly because Bellamy annoys me so much that I start hating on the other characters for not putting a bullet in his head.

 

I'm kind of looking for reasons to quit the show - can't quite bring myself to do it yet - so if they end up killing any remaining core female characters like Raven or Abby, or put Clarke and Bellamy together romantically, that will probably seal it for me.  Besides his unredeemability at this point, the massacre of the Grounder army precipitated events that contributed significantly to Lexa's death.  If Octavia can blame Bellamy for Lincoln's murder, Clarke has more than enough reason to blame Bellamy for Lexa's (except I can see that the show isn't giving even a whisper of going in that direction). 

 

Mo Ryan has a great recent piece on how/why "anyone can die" is total bullshit:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/tv/ct-tv-death-toll-20160413-story.html

 

Yeah, really great explanations of what kinds of characters generally get the strongest plot armor. 

Edited by wevel
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In a way, Bellamy doesn't even deserve to die, since that would be the ultimate redemption, right?  But I can't see Bellamy being killed off while the series is still running; he's not quite Clarke-level main character, but he's the closest male character to that.  The show seems to be setting up having all his atrocities weighing on his soul bringing him closer to Clarke, who also carries the burden of many deaths - as if they're even remotely comparable. *gag* 

 

You know, I actually didn't interpret it that way during this episode. I thought the show was actually saying that Clarke and Bellamy's kill counts are different because Clarke has always acted for the greater good while Bellamy only acts for himself. And that Bellamy has so far avoided blame (and ironically praise) for those deaths because he was always following somebody else. And it is because he's a follower and not a leader that he followed Pike. He was angry at Clarke and the Grounders and someone gave him something to do and so he did it.

 

I thought that Clarke making a comparison between the two was more about Clarke's state of mind than anything else. That she is so traumatised by everything that's happened that, at the moment, she can't see the difference between the two acts. But that says more about Clarke than Bellamy. To me.

 

I think the mistake the writers have made here is twofold (actually it's eleventy-fold but I'm just dealing with this episode).

 

Firstly, they've so alienated Bellamy fans by this clumsy character assassination that those fans no longer care about watching a Bellamy redemption arc (mostly because, as a Bellamy fan, I've already fricking seen one).  Bellamy will eventually realise that (a he was wrong and that b) he was wrong for the wrong reasons. But a lot of viewers just aren't interested in seeing him make that journey. Watching someone strive to be a better person once is compelling. Watching it a second time after he's committed effing war crimes isn't.

 

Secondly, that what worked in season 1 (Bellamy's redemption being driven by Clarke's forgiveness and her inherent leadership abilities) isn't going to work here. Because, again, we've already seen that.  And now he's an effing war criminal so it is different. I personally would have liked Clarke to have been angrier with him. But when they came face to face I realise she just doesn't have that in her anymore. It's gone. Ironically, that's because her characterisation is working for me, even if it's not as satisfying as it was in other seasons.

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When Bellamy aimed his gun at Nylah I almost threw something at the TV. Why is he trusted with a gun after all the shitty things he has done and why didn't Clarke react more strongly? I hate it when writers bring up victims/relatives of victims of the currently redeemed characters and nothing happens but Bellamy and his ilk feeling slightly bad for about two seconds. "Anyone can die... but some still have a plot armour that never fails". I might have watched Nylah punching (or was it slapping, hard to tell) Bellamy a few too many times.

...

Alas, common sense is something that doesn't come easy to these writers, I mean, characters. There was some decent characterization for a change and some things that needed to be said a long time ago were finally said but it is so tough to ignore the ridiculousness that was the presence of Bellamy and not gagging Raven.

...

I kind of want to see them go there and have Bellamy and Clarke get closer in this hilariously misguided way and then even hook up. Just to see the internet explode in outrage once again. And to give me the strength to stop watching because honestly, I wanted to give some praise to the episode but now I see I have given it almost nothing but criticism, mostly because Bellamy annoys me so much that I start hating on the other characters for not putting a bullet in his head.

I'm not going to lie, I was never a Bellamy fan, but I thought he was fine last year, so I guess his first season redemption plus his season two worked for me. This season, I don't want to watch any scene with him or Pike. So, I totally get what you mean by having a hard time enjoying a relatively good episode. Every time Pike ir Bellamy is on the screen, I too want to throw something. Right there with you on the Niylah front. It's times like these you wish the trading post had guns.

Full disclosure (so you can know my bias): I loved the character of Lexa and enjoyed what I saw of her and Clarke in Polis at the time, but knowing what I know now--that arc was NOT the best they could have done either, but at least it didn't frustrate me (except when they had to deal with Pike and Bellamy's shit). If they want to use Clarke and Lexa as

the means to take down the COL via their love being the weapon as it seems the writers have hinted at via SM

, then shouldn't it follow that Clarke would blame Bellamy at least a little, given the 'importance' the writers gave the relationship? His actions created the turmoil at Polis that let to her death, as in, Clarke HAD to argue for blood must not have blood to save her people from annhilation. Clarke is not an idiot, she would have put two and two together. They're not even writing the reactions realistically given how important this relationship apparently is to the overarching AI plot.

This episode was great in giving us essentially a verbal smackdown of characters' actions, but for me, the writers don't get points for saying: "See, all the things you thought we'd forgotten? We didn't. THIS is how our characters are feeling about all those things that we didn't forget happened!" Having things said to you can cause you to take note and work on them, but you know what also works? Talking those thing over with the people you need to talk them over with, and then continuing to write your characters dealing with it. With the exception of Jasper and Clarke, no one talked about anything, really. I feel like this episode is going to be a one and done with everything and everyone returning to the status quo.

Edited by Solace247
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Firstly, they've so alienated Bellamy fans by this clumsy character assassination that those fans no longer care about watching a Bellamy redemption arc (mostly because, as a Bellamy fan, I've already fricking seen one).  Bellamy will eventually realise that (a he was wrong and that b) he was wrong for the wrong reasons. But a lot of viewers just aren't interested in seeing him make that journey. Watching someone strive to be a better person once is compelling. Watching it a second time after he's committed effing war crimes isn't.

 

Agreed. He became my favourite character sometime in the second half of Season 1 so this character destruction via utterly clumsy writing is painful to see. For two years they crafted sympathetic, grey situations but somehow this Season went the route of "eh, lets do a lame, contrived dark ark" for shits and giggles? Thanks for nothing.

 

Lexa on the other hand, whom I liked as a character, I thought they were writing as a bit too saintly this year. And then they killed her off in a trop-y way. Lincoln, they did nothing with, and then, too, killed him off. Actor availability and decisions aside, was Season 3 simply the year they decided to spit in everyone`s faces or something?

 

Infuriatingly, there is still some good stuff buried in all of this. How they mixed Grounder mythology with the origin of the Ark people via Becca the first commander was great. The whole Alie plot has potential. In this episode, seeing the gang back together, so to speak, was great. Lindsey Morgan gave a wonderful performance here.

 

Imagine if they had done all that but kept characterizations and motivations believable and relatable throughout. Sigh..     ,    

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Imagine if they had done all that but kept characterizations and motivations believable and relatable throughout. Sigh..     ,

Imagine if they had cut some of the storylines all together and just committed to telling the remaining ones thoroughly and well?!

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Imagine if they had cut some of the storylines all together and just committed to telling the remaining ones thoroughly and well?!

 

I think doing believable character work would have cut or at least trimmed some of the current storylines by necessity. They only sprung from stupidity in the first place.

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then shouldn't it follow that Clarke would blame Bellamy at least a little,

 

Oh FFS NO, playing the domino blame game is pointless cause follow those dominoes back :Bellamy only did what he did because Mt Weather was blown up by Ice Nation killing Gina, Ice Nation was only able to blow up Mt. Weather because Emerson wanted to avenge Clarke's massacre of his people, which Clarke only had to do because Lexa BETRAYED her. So when you play that game, Lexa is "responsible" for Lexa's death. Except no Titus is, and Titus ALONE, Lincoln is different because Bellamy is basically Pike's second, the acts of Pike are therefore the acts of Bellamy, he had marginally turned on Pike before Lincoln's execution, but it's fitting that he was only dead to Octavia when he killed someone she loved, she learned her Big Brother's morality too well.

 

Again the whole show treating the slaughtering of men/women/children who were allies as if it's INCIDENTAL and from any PoV justifiable is illogical and offensive. But here we are, JR built the entire narrative of the season on the building block it was justifiable/understandable. All because he has to keep topping himself in the grimdark. Clarke killed roughly a 100 or so people, Bellamy needs to kill THREE times that, for no good reason at all except hatred/fear, but y'know same moral difference tho, everyone has done bad things, c'mon now....

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Clarke didn't even blame Titus much for Lexa's death which was yet another WTF moment in a season full of them.

 

 

You know, I actually didn't interpret it that way during this episode. I thought the show was actually saying that Clarke and Bellamy's kill counts are different because Clarke has always acted for the greater good while Bellamy only acts for himself. And that Bellamy has so far avoided blame (and ironically praise) for those deaths because he was always following somebody else. And it is because he's a follower and not a leader that he followed Pike. He was angry at Clarke and the Grounders and someone gave him something to do and so he did it.

 

I thought that Clarke making a comparison between the two was more about Clarke's state of mind than anything else. That she is so traumatised by everything that's happened that, at the moment, she can't see the difference between the two acts. But that says more about Clarke than Bellamy. To me.

 

But the other characters are doing much the same. Even Octavia didn't really object to taking Bellamy with them and even allowing him to keep his gun.

 

The excuse that Pike gave the order only works if Bellamy (and everyone else of the original hundred delinquents, really) hadn't disobeyed orders again and again and then some more. Bellamy was out sneaking into Polis, killing guards along the way even before Pike won the election (and I still don't understand why Lexa was dumb enough to let him go).

 

 

Again the whole show treating the slaughtering of men/women/children who were allies as if it's INCIDENTAL and from any PoV justifiable is illogical and offensive. But here we are, JR built the entire narrative of the season on the building block it was justifiable/understandable. All because he has to keep topping himself in the grimdark.

 

But it's working so well, the ratings are soaring... oh, wait, they are not. At all. And he can't use his favourite toy Twitter any more. But knowing how the minds of showrunners work, he probably thinks the audience is too stupid to get his brilliant ideas.

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Oh FFS NO, playing the domino blame game is pointless cause follow those dominoes back :Bellamy only did what he did because Mt Weather was blown up by Ice Nation killing Gina, Ice Nation was only able to blow up Mt. Weather ... So when you play that game, Lexa is "responsible" for Lexa's death.

...

 

Again the whole show treating the slaughtering of men/women/children who were allies as if it's INCIDENTAL and from any PoV justifiable is illogical and offensive. But here we are, JR built the entire narrative of the season on the building block it was justifiable/understandable. All because he has to keep topping himself in the grimdark. Clarke killed roughly a 100 or so people, Bellamy needs to kill THREE times that, for no good reason at all except hatred/fear, but y'know same moral difference tho, everyone has done bad things, c'mon now....

I realize that playing dominoes, or butterfly effect, is useless, which is why I said "blame" as in when Bellamy "blamed" Clarke in Hakeldama. It's about realistic reactions, not if, then, and causation. Contextually, it makes sense for Clarke to at least question WTF Bellamy thought he was doing, yet here we are again with a FINN 2.0 scenario where the writers are writing the reactions they need as opposed to ones that actually make sense.

In the Finn scenario, the only people who contemplated giving Finn up were made out to be a "frenzied mob", as if there was no rational viewpoint or stance in regards to giving up the one single-handedly responsible for killing the villagers to save the rest. (The Ark didn't even think of consequences for Finn's massacre, or even medical help for that matter, until pushed to, as they had already pardoned him--and subsequently armed him again). Finn himself, didn't internalize what he had done and give himself up until the last possible moment. I just think, they're implementing the same writing tactics here, where Octavia will continue to use her words against her brother, and everyone else won't outright acknowledge Bellamy's actions or consequences of those actions because anything greater would paint him in a more negative light than the writing or lack thereof has already done. As you said, the writing is treating it as 'incidental'.

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Is Murphy going to give Ontari the ALIE pill? Anyone? What if she gets ahold of the faux commander. She can literally use the entire grounder race to hunt all of the remaining 100...

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Contextually, it makes sense for Clarke to at least question WTF Bellamy thought he was doing, yet here we are again with a FINN 2.0 scenario where the writers are writing the reactions they need as opposed to ones that actually make sense.

 

Yes, it's good old "want to have your cake and eat it too" approach to writing that is infuriatingly common in grimdark stories. No one is allowed to have an in-character reaction to the character who is currently being redeemed. They may talk a lot about how disgusted they are with (in this case) Bellamy but their actions belie their words. Nobody has so much as paid lip service to the notion that Bellamy might be tried for war crimes or that the grounders would probably want to literally skin him alive, should they catch him. It's like they realise they are characters in a story and know Bellamy has plot armour. Reminds me of that time on Buffy when Rile stabbed Spike with a plastic stake - completely nonsensical action because he would have been fully in his rights to kill Spike and had all the reasons in the world to do so. He couldn't do it, though, because Spike was in the opening credits.

 

In short, talk is cheap. Talk is easy. The situation with Finn also had some terrible characterization but at least it paid off in the end when there were real consequences as opposed to just talk.

 

ETA: Some people on tumblr are scrambling to prove that Bellamy isn't actually a Karma Houdini. I know I am very biased but talk about grasping at straws:

 

http://spacexualkids.tumblr.com/post/142247176994/illgivethattoyou-narrative-punishingholding

http://illgivethattoyou.tumblr.com/post/142173479584/narrative-punishingholding-bellamy

http://illgivethattoyou.tumblr.com/post/142173477124/narrative-punishingholding-bellamy

 

"causes the culling" - consequence: "remind him it's his fault". Awful, right?

"isn't trusted by his people".... Aw, poor baby, not trusted by the people whom he betrayed and almost got killed. And they are trusting him now, they just pay lip service to the idea that they aren't.

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
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Nobody has so much as paid lip service to the notion that Bellamy might be tried for war crimes or that the grounders would probably want to literally skin him alive, should they catch him.

 

They had their chance last episode when Pike was handed over. The Grounders could have demanded Bellamy as well but frankly, I got the impression they didn`t know who he is/was. They know of Pike and got him. With such a military hierarchical society they have, they probably see Pike as "commander" and everyone else as exchangeable flunkies. 

 

And even then, Grounder leaders can be highly practical. The Mountain Men terrirozed, enslaved and victimized their whole society for-basically-ever and yet Emerson makes it in a place like Azgeda because he could be strategically valuable. Blood didn`t need to have blood there either. Finn simply didn`t have to offer anything like that so he got the axe. Metaphorically speaking.     

 

I agree, though, that the entire storyline is misbegotten. Since they didn`t set up the "fall" in a compelling manner, they are equally stumbling along with the redemption.

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Note to self: Don't watch The 100 immediately after the fantastic Orphan Black season premiere.  It highlights how much better Orphan Black's writing is compared to The 100.  I feel sorry for these actors who have to tell this Swiss cheese story.  How they don't laugh while delivering most of these lines is beyond me.

 

Highlights of the episode:

1. Lindsey did a great job as usual.  Her ALIE was spot on.  It's a good thing Lindsey works out because that episode must have been very physically demanding.

2. ALIE calling out everyone on their shit.  Almost everything she said to each character is what I was thinking for a long time. *cough* why does Jasper give Bellamy a pass at Mr. Weather?

3. I enjoyed seeing Nylah again.  I did find it odd that she didn't ask Clarke why she took off in the middle of the night and neither mentioned anything about their tryst.   

 

They had their chance last episode when Pike was handed over. The Grounders could have demanded Bellamy as well but frankly, I got the impression they didn`t know who he is/was. They know of Pike and got him. With such a military hierarchical society they have, they probably see Pike as "commander" and everyone else as exchangeable flunkies. 

 

I agree that Pike, as the leader, is who the Grounders think is responsible.  They do not kill everyone for the bad deeds of one e.g., Finn and Raven (carrying the poison that Gustus drank).

 

Is Murphy going to give Ontari the ALIE pill? Anyone? What if she gets ahold of the faux commander. She can literally use the entire grounder race to hunt all of the remaining 100...

 

You know, I didn't think about this.  Wow, how dangerous would that be if Ontari swallowed the ALIE 1.0 chip?  Come to think of it, who is holding that chip?

 

Lexa on the other hand, whom I liked as a character, I thought they were writing as a bit too saintly this year. And then they killed her off in a trop-y way. 

 

Blood must not have blood didn't work for me either.  It's like Lexa allowed her people (including the Arkers) to break the law with no repercussions.  No society can last when there are no consequences when the laws are broken.  Lexa was too savvy of a leader to not see that.  Plus, shouldn't the Grounders have written laws that all need to abide by?  Afterall, this is set in the U.S. and the Grounders should know about The Constitution, Amendments and the laws written.  I'm certain the remaining people from the nuclear disaster would follow some type of similar laws.  Eh, I also think they wouldn't believe that the Commander is chosen by an AI chip rather through an election.

 

Plus, I can't stand Jasper and his whining!

Edited by Tvtimebomb

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I feel so bad for Raven, she has had the sh*t kicked out her this entire series. 

 

This was a really good episode. I usually just have the show on in the background while I'm doing something, but this episode had my interest the entire time. 

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The reason why Lexa's decisions didn't bother me was because of what happened in S2.

 

From her perspective, she did exactly what she was supposed to do as Commander. She made the deal, saved her people, and walked away. Mount Weather would wipe out Skaikru, they would take their bone marrow and then the Mountain Men would leave the mountain. There was no need for further experimentation and she would have the beginnings of a relationship with the Mountain Men who would now be on Grounder territory with superior technology and who could easily wipe them out if they chose to. So she betrayed Clarke and Clarke is our protagonist but she made the right strategic decision from her perspective.

 

And then Clarke won. So suddenly her brilliant move to ensure peace and stability with the Mountain Men backfired spectacularly. She had betrayed the person whose goodwill she suddenly needed. Clarke was Wanheda who had slayed the mountain and her position as Commander was undermined. I had no problem with her spending this season second guessing all her strategic instincts and overturning the assumptions she had worked with before. After what happened in Mount Weather, if you were in her position, would you really keep preferencing your strategic instincts over Clarke? She had gambled against Clarke and lost. So now she was gambling on Clarke instead.

 

And, frankly, if it wasn't for Titus and the City of Light, she would have been proven right. The longer the Grounders held off retaliation and kept up the cordon, the more likely it was the rest of the Arkers would turn against Pike. It was the best strategic move. It's just that Titus was a deranged religious zealot and couldn't see it.

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So, I feel like the idea for this episode was really good, but so much of it got lost in execution.  I mean, I'm happy that we have most of the original group working together again, and I think that's been long overdue.  Moreover, I think it was smart to have it happen in an episode where their conflicts are brought up and then have to be set aside for a more important goal.  At the same time, a lot of it just didn't work.  Like, I didn't get why Alie!Raven was harping so much on the deaths of Clarke's father and Bellamy's mother (both of which were pretty clearly not their faults) when they both have body counts in the hundreds from actual choices they've made (not that those went unmentioned, but it seemed like a lot of emphasis was put on those two).  I guess they maybe wanted to draw a parallel there, but it seemed more like, in Bellamy's case, the writers don't want to put too much emphasis on things that the audience might actually hold against him.  Like, even the whole "Bellamy's really a follower" thing was about him following Clarke to try and save Raven, rather than that time he followed Pike to commit a war crime.  

 

Regarding Clarke blaming Bellamy for what happened to Lexa, I don't think that would really be in character for her.  Like, if Lexa had actually been assassinated for her position on the whole thing, I could maybe see Clarke holding it against him more (I kind of wonder if that's why the writers had her accidentally shot instead), but even then, I think Clarke understands better than most people the way that choices have consequences you can't predict.  That being said, I really wish she'd stood up for herself more.  When she said the thing about how Lexa was in the chip, I was kind of expecting her to snap about how completely ungrateful they all are.  I mean, I get that that's not really her style, but it seemed like so much of her time in Polis was about rebuilding her confidence in herself as a leader, so it particularly sucked to see her apologizing for it again (and again and again).  

 

On a side note, when Jasper said that whole "I can't do what you did" thing, I initially thought that was him saying that he couldn't have saved Raven's life or he couldn't have been a productive member of the team mere days after losing the girl he was in love with, but then I realized that he was just being a smug asshole about the fact that he didn't destroy the thing that, as it turns out, is the key to saving the world, even though he wanted to destroy it purely out of spite, so he can go die in a ditch any time now.

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And then Clarke won. So suddenly her brilliant move to ensure peace and stability with the Mountain Men backfired spectacularly. She had betrayed the person whose goodwill she suddenly needed. Clarke was Wanheda who had slayed the mountain and her position as Commander was undermined. I had no problem with her spending this season second guessing all her strategic instincts and overturning the assumptions she had worked with before. After what happened in Mount Weather, if you were in her position, would you really keep preferencing your strategic instincts over Clarke? She had gambled against Clarke and lost. So now she was gambling on Clarke instead.

 

And, frankly, if it wasn't for Titus and the City of Light, she would have been proven right. The longer the Grounders held off retaliation and kept up the cordon, the more likely it was the rest of the Arkers would turn against Pike. It was the best strategic move. It's just that Titus was a deranged religious zealot and couldn't see it.

 

Lexa didn't know she was a character in a TV show, so she couldn't rely on Clarke finding convenient "I win" levers whenever a major problem occurred (in the case of Mt. Weather it was Monty's idea anyway). Lexa was the one who united the clans, she knew them far better than Clarke did and should have been aware that they would never tolerate no retaliation whatsoever against Arkadia. Even in our world, there is not a single country where an army can be massacred in a treacherous attack and the leader of said country can afford to say "Love and peace, we do nothing". Not even countries that have been in peace for generations, do not have a culture built around warrior pride or massively superior population and military experience compared to the country who has organised said massacre.

 

Lexa wasn't proven right per se because she changed her tune a bit later. At the end of episode five she basically said "we stay put" because the writers introduced the false dichotomy of "kill everyone or do absolutely nothing".  It was only after Pike attacked a village that she proclaimed the blockade and said "Bring me Pike's head". Titus wasn't exactly the only one who was pissed by Lexa's policy, she could well have been deposed before Pike was captured even if Titus had done nothing. Lexa was my favourite character but her strategy was a recipe for disaster, IMO.

 

 

Blood must not have blood didn't work for me either.  It's like Lexa allowed her people (including the Arkers) to break the law with no repercussions.  No society can last when there are no consequences when the laws are broken.  Lexa was too savvy of a leader to not see that.

 

Exactly.

 

 

They had their chance last episode when Pike was handed over. The Grounders could have demanded Bellamy as well but frankly, I got the impression they didn`t know who he is/was.

 

Well, yes but how convenient is that? Bellamy isn't just Pike's right hand, he was the inside man in Mt. Weather. I would imagine the rescued grounders would have spread his legend quite a bit by now and Indra would have told whoever wanted to listen that he was among the people who massacred an army.

 

 

And even then, Grounder leaders can be highly practical. The Mountain Men terrirozed, enslaved and victimized their whole society for-basically-ever and yet Emerson makes it in a place like Azgeda because he could be strategically valuable.

 

Sure but I bet he would have been killed slowly and painfully once he had outlived his usefulness had Lexa and Clarke not intervened.

 

 

That being said, I really wish she'd stood up for herself more.

 

Stephen King is currently catching up with the show and recently tweeted - "Challenge for the writers of THE 100: Get through Season 4 without Clarke saying "I'm sorry" more than, say, 10 times". He is right on the money, IMO.

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the inside man in Mt. Weather.

 

I'm not getting what you're referring to here, Abby was the one who advocated using/occupying Mt. Weather and Kane agreed.Bellamy wasn't stationed there because he loved Pike so much, he was helping set up their position there, following the decision of Kane/Abby. He was still Kane/Abby's man. Bellamy was under his sway, but Monty's mom was his actual second, and he didn't support Pike until  AFTER Mt. Weather was blown up by Ice Nation, and Girlfriend We Met for Two Episodes was killed, and that it happened because he advised Skaikru to trust the Ice Nation girl from Mt. Weather. So many contrivances it's hard to keep track. 

 

ETA: Okay I realize you meant in S2, yeah we have no indication anyone but Ice Nation girl really connected with or understood Bellamy to be an "inside man" if anything I would hope that would work in his favor, that because of him they were able to be liberated from their evil overlords.

Edited by blixie

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Well, yes, it might work in Bellamy's favour, my point was that he should be rather well known among the grounders. In fact, come to think about it, this could have been a much better justification for sparing him than what we got which was basically "we can't be bothered". But for some reason, everyone is behaving as if Clarke conquered Mt. Weather all by her lonesome and all the praise and criticism for that are for her alone.

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But for some reason, everyone is behaving as if Clarke conquered Mt. Weather all by her lonesome and all the praise and criticism for that are for her alone.

 

I think the Grounders don`t know the specifics of how the Mount Weather thing went down, otherwise they would understand that the true commander of Death was Monty. He recalibrated the controls. If need be, he could have eradiated the level himself. On the other hand Clarke and Bellamy could push the button but without Monty, there wouldn`t have been a right button to push.

 

However, attributing it all to Clarke fits their view. They clearly saw her as the leader/public face/spokesperson of Skaikru in Season 2. No matter what actual hierarchies seemed to be going on. Even Bellamy being the inside man in the Mountain would have been seen as a warrior doing his job at Clarke`s behest. I`m sure even Lexa didn`t do every single thing in uniting the clans personally. But as the Commander, the glory would be hers, no matter what her soldiers possibly did or did not do because they were under her orders. Same with Pike, he gave the orders, that makes him the prize. 

 

With that mindset, I can see why and how Bellamy would not be anyone of regocnition for the Grounders. I think they know the Skaikru overall and just Clarke/Wanheda as an individual. Well, and Pike now.   

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otherwise they would understand that the true commander of Death was Monty. He recalibrated the controls.

 

Word up. 

 

 

I can see why and how Bellamy would not be anyone of regocnition for the Grounders.

 

Indra and pretty much only Indra, should most definitely should have recognized him, but, of course, conveniently she's disappeared into the Polis ether.

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Well, yes but how convenient is that? Bellamy isn't just Pike's right hand, he was the inside man in Mt. Weather. I would imagine the rescued 

Stephen King is currently catching up with the show and recently tweeted - "Challenge for the writers of THE 100: Get through Season 4 without Clarke saying "I'm sorry" more than, say, 10 times". He is right on the money, IMO.

 

It would be nice just to hear Clarke say, just once to the delinquents, that they're all incredibly ungrateful. Instead, the writers have her apologising for everything wrong in the world.

 

Stephen's POV so far (on this, his other tweets have been way too complimentary to the writing team) has been much better than William Shatner's who's opinion gets worse and worse every time he tweets about the show.

Edited by kdm07
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It would be nice just to hear Clarke say, just once to the delinquents, that they're all incredibly ungrateful. Instead, the writers have her apologising for everything wrong in the world.

The only way any of Clarke's reactions make sense is if she feels like she is absolute shit still as a person, while conveniently forgetting her actions have saved her people time and time again. If I were her, I would gladly tell Jasper, that if he isn't happy being alive, he could opt out. The only way any of this will be worth it, to me, is if Clarke comes to realize she doesn't need to be sorry for everything, has a moment where she can finally turn to everyone and TELL them everything she has done to SAVE their asses while they assumed she was living it up in Polis. Finally, she needs to ascend to Commander status as a result of being the only effing one of them that can envision and put into action a plan to save the EFFING world this season and go on from this season taking no shit from anyone for her decisions, a)because they usually work, and b) because she's mother effing heda.

Stephen's POV so far (on this, his other tweets have been way too complimentary to the writing team) has been much better than William Shatner's who's opinion gets worse and worse every time he tweets about the show.

What have they been saying lately?

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A lot of nonsense Solace247, just go down Shatner's TL. He's basically saying writers should stop writing LGBT characters if people are going to be so "up in arms" about their characterisation.

 

King hasn't been that bad but he's glossed over the writing for this season.

Edited by kdm07

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Finally, she needs to ascend to Commander status as a result of being the only effing one of them that can envision and put into action a plan to save the EFFING world this season and go on from this season taking no shit from anyone for her decisions, a)because they usually work, and b) because she's mother effing heda.

 

I disagree. Even the best equipped teenager should not be in a leadership position of an entire society. Clarke has been doing a good job of winging it so far but her current defeated state is IMO because it is crushing her. Most adults couldn`t emotionally handle what she does - see Pike for example - and she can`t either and she shouldn`t have to. 

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Clarke didn't even blame Titus much for Lexa's death which was yet another WTF moment in a season full of them.

 

 

I always felt like she blamed herself more.  Titus had constantly said how bad Clarke was for Lexa as commander.  And it seems like it was the reason he was in the room to kill her.  Of course Titus had the gun and did the shooting....but he only had the gun to save Lexa from Clarke.

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