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I probably shouldn't be saying this, but it makes me really uncomfortable to how glib everyone is about prison rape.

 

Dinh is a horrible human being, but I don't think he deserves that.

I'm sure you're right, and if you noticed, I said I was sure I'm wrong. I'm typically the tree hugging Liberal of the group, and I don't even support the death penalty. But there's something so inhuman about plotting and planning to kill a random person for the hell of it. I know who I am, and I know I'm a very empathetic person, so I'm refusing to feel ashamed. But good on you.

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I'm sure you're right, and if you noticed, I said I was sure I'm wrong. I'm typically the tree hugging Liberal of the group, and I don't even support the death penalty. But there's something so inhuman about plotting and planning to kill a random person for the hell of it. I know who I am, and I know I'm a very empathetic person, so I'm refusing to feel ashamed. But good on you.

 

THIS.

 

Also, as mentioned, when bunny was telling the judge how sorry bunny was that the judge had the burden of sentencing him, I too, wish that the judge had said that he was OK with it and could handle it. My concern (and maybe you guys can shed some light on this) is that is it 29 years wit no parole? Bc if he gets parole he'll be out and about in X number of years, living life and doing God knows what.. Yancy, OTOH, doesn't get that option. So if he gets out in a few years (less than the 29 sentenced) then whatever happens before he gets out will be his real punishment. If that makes me terrible.... then... IDK what to say. If I were Yancy's loved one, I'd have a lot of feelings about bunny.... and not good ones.   

And frankly I wish LE could dig deeper and charge snuggles. The fact that she may have a license in any medical field (with a different name? even worse) scares me... a lot.

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I'm sure you're right, and if you noticed, I said I was sure I'm wrong. I'm typically the tree hugging Liberal of the group, and I don't even support the death penalty. But there's something so inhuman about plotting and planning to kill a random person for the hell of it. I know who I am, and I know I'm a very empathetic person, so I'm refusing to feel ashamed. But good on you.

Here's the thing though:  there are a lot of very evil people in this world, both men and women.  Karla Homolka was a serial killer who got away with murder.  Susan Smith and Diane Downs killed their own children.  But I don't think anybody in his right mind would say "Sure hope they get raped!"

 

But with men, being raped in prison is either funny (see: the truly repulsive Will Ferrell movie Get Hard) or a violation that the men somehow deserve.  Dinh Bowman is a miserable human being, and if you want to throw him in a dark hole somewhere, I'll be glad to take a turn with the shovel.  But this thing really bothers me because the inference is either A) male-male sex is the worst thing that can happen to someone, or B) there are some people who deserve to be violated like that.

 

Signed,

A Male Survivor of Sexual Assault

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Here's the thing though:  there are a lot of very evil people in this world, both men and women.  Karla Homolka was a serial killer who got away with murder.  Susan Smith and Diane Downs killed their own children.  But I don't think anybody in his right mind would say "Sure hope they get raped!"

 

But with men, being raped in prison is either funny (see: the truly repulsive Will Ferrell movie Get Hard) or a violation that the men somehow deserve.  Dinh Bowman is a miserable human being, and if you want to throw him in a dark hole somewhere, I'll be glad to take a turn with the shovel.  But this thing really bothers me because the inference is either A) male-male sex is the worst thing that can happen to someone, or B) there are some people who deserve to be violated like that.

 

Signed,

A Male Survivor of Sexual Assault

 

Omg im so sorry for your horrible experience.

 

All rape is terrible ... male -male and male- female... and if a female can rape a male then that is horrible too.

 

I just have no feelings for this bunny man because of what he did to an innocent person for no reason but his own thrill and he seemed to feel no remorse.. Also, he was not starving and attacked someone or stole some food bc of his horrible lot in life. He had everything and threw it away just for the "thrill" of killing another human being. That is beyond sick to me. If someone has no mercy on him I'm ok with that.  He had no mercy on Yancy. He should have thought about it before he did it since he's a genius.  

My concern is that he is sentenced to 29 years and will not likely serve 29 years. That bothers me immensely... considering what he did, the way he did it, and his attitude about all of it.

I would never wish rape or anything horrible on an innocent person. Bunny is not an innocent person.

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Starri, you mentioned bunny being in a dark hole..... if that were his sentence and he would never get out, then I'd take back anything I said about wishing him misery in prison. A dark hole for the rest of his life would work for me .  But I don't think that is the reality of what will transpire for him. I may be wrong, but I think he'll be out in _ years which is too soon. And I wont be surprised when he does it again, only next time he wont make the mistakes he made this time.

Edited by ari333
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Here's the thing though:  there are a lot of very evil people in this world, both men and women.  Karla Homolka was a serial killer who got away with murder.  Susan Smith and Diane Downs killed their own children.  But I don't think anybody in his right mind would say "Sure hope they get raped!"

 

But with men, being raped in prison is either funny (see: the truly repulsive Will Ferrell movie Get Hard) or a violation that the men somehow deserve.  Dinh Bowman is a miserable human being, and if you want to throw him in a dark hole somewhere, I'll be glad to take a turn with the shovel.  But this thing really bothers me because the inference is either A) male-male sex is the worst thing that can happen to someone, or B) there are some people who deserve to be violated like that.

 

Signed,

A Male Survivor of Sexual Assault

 

Sometimes we forget that what we say anonymously is capable of hurting others.  While I don't think my words will cause any harm to Dinh, I'm more sorry than I can express that they harmed you.  Best wishes.

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Sometimes we forget that what we say anonymously is capable of hurting others.  While I don't think my words will cause any harm to Dinh, I'm more sorry than I can express that they harmed you.  Best wishes.

I agree, No intent meant to hurt  any innocent victims of sexual assault not at all...

 

I have to be honest and say that if I were a family member of someone who was killed in the way Yancy was murdered I would have a lot of anger and I would indeed wish misery on the perpetrator who took my loved one's life for no reason. But the dark hole scenario works for me. so we can agree on that.

 

My fear is that he'll get out early for "good behavior" and he'll be steaming mad... and do it again bc it didn't go right the first time.

And if he gets out, snuggles better watch her back.

Edited by ari333
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Thank you for all the kind words.  It's not something that I bring up for sympathy, it's just an issue that I want more people to actually think about.

 

Now, let's get back to Maureen's wardrobe.

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For First Degree Murder, he has to serve at least 20 of them.

 

Thanks for that. It's not enough imo but it's better than nothing.  This case effected me more than some other cases. IDK why exactly.  All murders are so terrible. THis one seemed to have extra horror. I didnt' say that very well.

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I have questions. Bunny's car was a convertible - And the top was down. Is that right? Why was the window up? Why did he shoot through the passenger window? To be badass? It all seems so peculiar and evil.

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I have to correct myself:  There's no parole in Washington.  Prisoners can get a reduction based on conduct, but because he had a second conviction for using a gun, Bunny has to serve the entire sentence.

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I have to correct myself:  There's no parole in Washington.  Prisoners can get a reduction based on conduct, but because he had a second conviction for using a gun, Bunny has to serve the entire sentence.

 

Wow thank you! I didnt' know any of that.... no parole in Wash.  I didn't know about the second conviction either for the gun. THANK YOU!! So even if he has good conduct that will not get him out early bc of the gun conviction. Awesome.... his precious gun.. Irony AND karma. Life in prison would feel more deserving to me, but 29 for sure is good.  

I have a story but I think I should take it to small talk. It is about someone pulling up next to us on a two lane exit ramp; I looked over at the other diriver and a chill went through me as the passenger. Off to small talk.... but laundry first dangit. I don't want to derail this thread with my ramblings.

 

(too late, ari, that ship has sailed. ) :-)

Edited by ari333

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Re: Levi King. It always grates when defense attorneys pompously tell juries in death-penalty trials "he will never walk the streets again". Really? How do you know? There are prison breaks all the time. How can you guarantee that a future governor won't pardon the guy? (Google "Ray Blanton 1979"). In other countries convicts have been freed by prison riots, civil unrest, changes in government, even earthquakes.

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Wow, Rhonda's mother was a piece of work. I get the idea she pimped her daughter out to snag a rich guy. I don't really see the evidence that he killed her.

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I don't think there is real evidence either but he still seemed creepy. They mentioned he was having sex with the younger sister but then didn't go into details? Was this a proven fact? Did the sister say this happened? I always say, if someone is very insistent about you doing something dangerous (hiking, scuba diving etc) think twice.

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The mother was and is just out for the money. Stealing granddaughter cheques and I don't believe a word she says. I don't know if he pushed her or not but they don't have any evidence so very scary for innocent people. Why would she go hiking there with him if she thought he would push her.

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Peter van Sant's reports always bore me.  I can't think about a case he's covered that's really held my interest all the way through.

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The mother was and is just out for the money. Stealing granddaughter cheques and I don't believe a word she says. I don't know if he pushed her or not but they don't have any evidence so very scary for innocent people. Why would she go hiking there with him if she thought he would push her.

 

That's something that got me as well.  If she honestly feared for her life around him, why would she agree to go to a remote, rather treacherous area for a hike?  I just didn't really see his motive here, and the evidence they have seems pretty thin.

 

And yes, the mother seems like she'd be a horrible witness.  I'd think the jury would turn on her the moment they heard she was stealing checks meant for her granddaughter. 

Edited by txhorns79
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Poor Rhonda.  Creepy ass boy friend and a mercenary mom.  she did not have a chance.  There is probably not enough to convict, but I think he did it.

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The guy was off-putting to me, but that doesn't make him guilty. I think there was just an allegation that he slept with the sister which came from that Jabba the Hutt mother. I really feel sorry for the little girl.

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I didn't find Steve terribly charismatic, but there was nothing that I saw that was overtly creepy about him either.  From what was shown, I don't see how this guy was even indicted much less how he will ever be convicted.  Whether he did it or not, I think the DA is grabbing at straws.  Why wait 5 years after the fact to pursue this when most of the evidence is long gone?  This is a head scratcher to me.  

 

Ronda and her family certainly didn't come off very sympathetic.  Her mom is obviously a money-grubbing parasite, and she even claims the only thing her daughter saw in Steve was the size of his wallet.  What a lovely family!  

Edited by Fable
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I agree with everyone that Rhonda's mom was a real piece of work.  She clearly pimped out her daughter, had nothing to say at the possibility the guy was also having sex with her fifteen year old, and did everything she could to paint Rhonda as an unpleasant person.  If this woman had even half a brain and three more daughters, she would be pimping them out like Kris Jenner.  But even Kris isn't stealing money from her grandchildren.

 

I'm at a disadvantage because I primarily listened to this episode.  Flat affects are always noteworthy, but don't mean someone's a killer.  Trauma, grief, depression, psych meds, etc. can cause a flat affect.  And as to the mother calling him a psychopath, I'm going to need a little more evidence.  And as unbelievable as it sounds, the majority of psychopaths aren't killers.

 

I feel nothing but skepticism for a police force/DA who re-opens a case on the promise of a book deal.  As far as I'm concerned, the mother is probably trying to cash in on that as well.  It doesn't seem she made even a minimal attempt to gain custody of her granddaughter.  An innocent child she claims is at the mercy of a psychopath who killed her mother.

 

I hate stories like this that leave me wanting to take a shower afterward.  No one to root for except the baby.

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He was pressing Rhonda to go on a hike. WHO DOES THAT? And she even mentioned a ring.... or pushed over a cliff. She wasn't wrong.

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He was pressing Rhonda to go on a hike. WHO DOES THAT? And she even mentioned a ring.... or pushed over a cliff. She wasn't wrong.

Not to mention the $1,000,000 life insurance policy taken out shortly before she died......then moves to China.

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Sorry, I just don't buy it.  There is no way you want to wait 5 years to bring charges.  If there was something hinky, I would think it would have been noted straight away.  I'm not saying he didn't do it, but I am saying there was no case. 

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For starters, the story about Rhonda losing footing on that trail is completely plausible to me, given that it had been raining. Couple that with drugs in her system and the witness (who was told to shut up and go away) saw her apparently happy... completely believable to me, unlike the cockamamie story told in a recent Dateline ep about a guy who was convicted of shoving his wife off a cliff. And Rhonda landed feet/legs first which was consistent with slipping down the side. On the other hand, he didn't call 911 until after he'd hiked down to her (which he said took an hour) and then lay on top of her for 45 minutes. He was in his car shirtless and barefoot when the cops arrived, not with Rhonda. Wtf? His first wife in China claims he tried to kill her by throwing her off the balcony and the nanny backed up her story even though Chinese police never brought charges. Who knows, maybe he encouraged Rhonda to take drugs and run carelessly on the narrow trail in hopes she would go over?

 

Among the things "lost" from the lead detective's computer were his formal notes and the names of potential witnesses pulled from the park fee station, so conveniently there is no way to follow up with people who may contradict the detective's theory. He claims he put all the files on a thumb drive and put it in the evidence room, but no one has ever seen that thumb drive and it was never logged in. And he didn't just erase files, he wiped the hard drive clean so nothing was recoverable. I call b.s.

 

It wasn't clear to me if the story of Rhonda's husband having sex with her underage sister was brought forward by the sister, or the mother? Was it ever alleged while Rhonda was alive?

 

Ugh. This story is a mess.

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For starters, the story about Rhonda losing footing on that trail is completely plausible to me, given that it had been raining. Couple that with drugs in her system and the witness (who was told to shut up and go away) saw her apparently happy... completely believable to me, unlike the cockamamie story told in a recent Dateline ep about a guy who was convicted of shoving his wife off a cliff. And Rhonda landed feet/legs first which was consistent with slipping down the side. On the other hand, he didn't call 911 until after he'd hiked down to her (which he said took an hour) and then lay on top of her for 45 minutes. He was in his car shirtless and barefoot when the cops arrived, not with Rhonda. Wtf? His first wife in China claims he tried to kill her by throwing her off the balcony and the nanny backed up her story even though Chinese police never brought charges. Who knows, maybe he encouraged Rhonda to take drugs and run carelessly on the narrow trail in hopes she would go over?

 

Among the things "lost" from the lead detective's computer were his formal notes and the names of potential witnesses pulled from the park fee station, so conveniently there is no way to follow up with people who may contradict the detective's theory. He claims he put all the files on a thumb drive and put it in the evidence room, but no one has ever seen that thumb drive and it was never logged in. And he didn't just erase files, he wiped the hard drive clean so nothing was recoverable. I call b.s.

 

It wasn't clear to me if the story of Rhonda's husband having sex with her underage sister was brought forward by the sister, or the mother? Was it ever alleged while Rhonda was alive?

 

Ugh. This story is a mess.

YES! All great points.  

 

He totally did it or had a hand in making it happen, which is to say (imo)  he wanted it to happen.  The mother was appalling as well. Im surprised she wasn't in on it so they could split the mill. Wouldn't shock me at. all. "She loved him for his wallet " is a horrible thing to say about a dead daughter... even if it WERE true (not saying it was) that did not need to be said on freakin TV GAH.

Edited by ari333
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He totally did it, but there's not enough factual evidence for a conviction.  But  my bullshit radar was pinging big time. Vicious mother, money hungry daughter and  a smarmy  wallet {man} with a creepy affect. 

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He totally did it, but there's not enough factual evidence for a conviction.  But  my bullshit radar was pinging big time. Vicious mother, money hungry daughter and  a smarmy  wallet {man} with a creepy affect. 

 

What did you think of the tests done with the life size dummy  off the cliff? I was unclear where they went wit that. Was it that she couldn't have been pushed ? or that she WAS likely pushed.?

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I agree with those who think that there is not enough evidence to convict Stephen. Was Rhonda's father in the picture at all? I wonder what he thinks, assuming he is still alive, about Stephen.

 

I also wonder why Julia/Rhonda's mother ended up moving out of Stephen's condo.

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What did you think of the tests done with the life size dummy  off the cliff? I was unclear where they went wit that. Was it that she couldn't have been pushed ? or that she WAS likely pushed.?

 

The DA did the tests and I am surprised they used the results as evidence of guilt.  I'm thinking if he was taller than she was and he pushed her shoulders OUTWARD and she fell feet first, similar to falling naturally.

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We don't know that he pushed her shoulders outward though. He could have kicked her feet out from under her from behind.

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He could have kicked her feet out from under her from behind.

 

That is certainly the only thing that makes sense given the autopsy results. But as others have said there is no way I would convict him based on what we were told in the episode.  The insurance money wouldn't convince me since they had insurance on each other and it was taken out after the baby was born - hardly an unusual thing. It sounds like the insurance money was never paid out and I guess won't be until the case is decided?

 

I was surprised to read upthread that he had a first wife in China? Was this brought up on the show (I must have dozed off as I don't remember it). I found that interesting as when he was interviewed and asked why he went to China after Rhonda's death he said he had been there before and liked it. But sounds like he had an ex and a child(ren) there?

 

Given that there were four people who had died on that trail (I think they said within the year that Rhonda died) not to mention how many close calls (like the woman they interviewed) I can't see how he can be convicted with really no evidence. I am puzzled though about the drugs in Rhonda's system. It looks like a fair climb to get to the area where she fell. Who in their right mind would take drugs before going to such a treacherous place? But if he gave her the drugs, why would she consent to going up there knowing she was not feeling 'normal'? I have done quite a bit of hiking (even heli-hiking) and I would never go on a trail that is that narrow with a sheer drop on one side and only a cable to hang onto on the other. Yikes.

 

Edited to add - the missing evidence would seal the deal for me. Just too many unanswered questions as well as seemingly police that wanted to make the case fit their opinion. We certainly see a lot of that when the person is innocent. So while this guy may be guilty evidence tampering is evidence tampering and should not be rewarded.

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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I was surprised to read upthread that he had a first wife in China? Was this brought up on the show (I must have dozed off as I don't remember it). I found that interesting as when he was interviewed and asked why he went to China after Rhonda's death he said he had been there before and liked it. But sounds like he had an ex and a child(ren) there?

 

It was reported in the media and I just ass-umed it had been included in the 48 Hours ep and I missed it (I often watch these eps while multi-tasking). Sorry, will look for links later today.

 

The thing is, iirc it was Rhonda's family who alerted the cops to the existence of a former wife in China, and cops allegedly checked it out, so I don't understand why the lead detective would destroy files that also included things helpful to the prosecution, such as interviews with an angry ex-wife in China who says he tried to kill her and had a witness? Maybe 48 Hours left it out because it turned out to be false. Rhonda's family gives me bad vibes.

 

The thing with the drugs in her system is that besides the trace amounts of pot, I think other were prescriptions belonging to her. So he wouldn't have had to dope her up, she may have taken them herself. One thing I wonder about is if he did take her up there with bad intentions but then got lucky when she slipped and fell. I also don't know if he had cell service at that part of the trail, which could account for no 911 call, but shouldn't other park goers have heard him screaming for help? I mean, if your wife has gone over the edge and you have no cell service, wouldn't you try to attract attention?

 

The mother on the witness stand chirping "yes!" when asked if she'd stolen those benefits? Ay yi yi.

 

Okay, here's one article about Nichols's former wife and other skullduggery. There is also reference to his siblings suing him for mishandling funds from his mother's estate, did 48 Hours mention that?

http://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/3742563-151/as-trial-nears-accused-murderer-makes-strides-in?referrer=bullet1

 

Exhibits filed in the case include an affidavit from a nanny who worked for Nichols and his ex-wife in Shanghai more than a decade ago, testifying Nichols physically assaulted his ex-wife. He returned to the U.S. in February with a Chinese fiancee who did not know Casto died during the hiking incident or that Nichols had lived in China previously, according to court records.

Nichols was charged with five counts of first-degree sexual abuse in Deschutes County in 2009, electronic court records show. Each of the charges were dismissed with prejudice in June 2011, meaning the charges cannot be refiled. Court records in the current murder case state Nichols pleaded guilty to sexual harassment instead and allege he sexually abused a relative of Casto’s.

 

edited because i screwed up a name

Edited by glowlights
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It was reported in the media and I just ass-umed it had been included in the 48 Hours ep and I missed it (I often watch these eps while multi-tasking). Sorry, will look for links later today.

 

The thing is, iirc it was Rhonda's family who alerted the cops to the existence of a former wife in China, and cops allegedly checked it out, so I don't understand why the lead detective would destroy files that also included things helpful to the prosecution, such as interviews with an angry ex-wife in China who says he tried to kill her and had a witness? Maybe 48 Hours left it out because it turned out to be false. Rhonda's family gives me bad vibes.

 

The thing with the drugs in her system is that besides the trace amounts of pot, I think other were prescriptions belonging to her. So he wouldn't have had to dope her up, she may have taken them herself. One thing I wonder about is if he did take her up there with bad intentions but then got lucky when she slipped and fell. I also don't know if he had cell service at that part of the trail, which could account for no 911 call, but shouldn't other park goers have heard him screaming for help? I mean, if your wife has gone over the edge and you have no cell service, wouldn't you try to attract attention?

 

The mother on the witness stand chirping "yes!" when asked if she'd stolen those benefits? Ay yi yi.

 

Okay, here's one article about Nichols's former wife and other skullduggery. There is also reference to his siblings suing him for mishandling funds from his mother's estate, did 48 Hours mention that?

http://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/3742563-151/as-trial-nears-accused-murderer-makes-strides-in?referrer=bullet1

 

Exhibits filed in the case include an affidavit from a nanny who worked for Nichols and his ex-wife in Shanghai more than a decade ago, testifying Nichols physically assaulted his ex-wife. He returned to the U.S. in February with a Chinese fiancee who did not know Casto died during the hiking incident or that Nichols had lived in China previously, according to court records.

Nichols was charged with five counts of first-degree sexual abuse in Deschutes County in 2009, electronic court records show. Each of the charges were dismissed with prejudice in June 2011, meaning the charges cannot be refiled. Court records in the current murder case state Nichols pleaded guilty to sexual harassment instead and allege he sexually abused a relative of Casto’s.

 

edited because i screwed up a name

 

Wow this is not a good person. yikes.

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I feel a need to point out that Rhonda and her mother were money grubbing, as so many people have commented on, but Nichols was only interested in Rhonda after he realized how pretty she was. No, I don't think he grew to love her for her smarts or even planned on doing so. They deserved each other and used each other for what the other had. I think he did it, but, if he didn't, he was just as scummy about the relationship as she was. She used him for money, and he used her as eye candy.

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I thought it was weird that Rhonda allegedly said "he's either going to give me a ring or push me off a cliff" on the hike. Why would you go on a hike with a guy you thought could kill you? You wouldn't want a ring from someone like that either. Weird.

Edited by LittleIggy
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Yeah, they both sucked in different ways - but sad she died - and a horrible way to die because until she was knocked unconscious, she knew what was happening to her.

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After watching  the episode and seeing the footage of the "hiking trail" where Rhonda fell, I'm not surprised.  I say "hiking trail" because that's a deathtrap, sorry.  No way in hell would I walk that thing.  A little rain, a misstep, or even someone bumping you (accidentally or on purpose) and you're potentially going over the side.  No, thank you. 

 

That said, while I don't think there was sufficient evidence that we saw to convict, I think Nichols did it.  He was a sketchy character, there was the insurance money, the move to China and something was just off.

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Wow.  I just watched the David Temple update.  I kept thinking that if this was Cold Justice and Kelly Siegler was interviewing herself, I doubt she'd believe her.  This was not a good look for her.  I thought she came across as defensive and agitated.  She also didn't give a concrete answer as to HOW Riley Joe Sanders was "cleared."  His supposed "cooperation" would not be enough for me.  I'd want details, especially since a lot of evidence points to him, not away from him.

 

I've said this before.  I like Kelly Siegler, and I like her TNT show.  However, I think she's in serious professional trouble because I do believe it looks like she did some unethical/shady stuff in this case.  She just happened to be the one to get lawyers for those two guys when the investigator wanted to talk to them?  That seems magically convenient to me.

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Yes this David temple case is very scary. I don't think he would have killed his baby, nine months pregnant. You need more evidence than that to send someone to jail and ruin their whole family.

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