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SilverStormm

7th Heaven

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I've started watching season one again and its kind of heartbreaking seeing how everyone's personality has evolved since, it would be fine if they all got better over time, but all the kids seem to be shells of themselves and important screen time is being taken up by people who aren't even family members. Especially in season 11, barely anyone was from the main cast.

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Yes, that's true! It was one of the main things that hurt the show as it went on. I know actors left and stuff, but I think they would have done better to focus on who they had left than keep adding more.

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Exactly! They could have done so much with Ruthie's character besides all the unnecessary boy drama and given Sam&David actual story lines and realistic personalities, but they wasted so much time on random people.  

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I barely remember the last few seasons, but there was a character named Georgia that I just hated.  I think she may have been dating Simon or something.

 

I loved the show when it was first on, but now when I try to watch reruns, I am embarrassed for myself. 

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She was Simon's girlfriend in college, she pretended to be pregnant to manipulate him into marriage or something like that.

 

I totally agree, I could not stand her either, now that I think about it I couldn't stand any of his girlfriends not even Cecilia who everyone seemed to love.

 

I feel the same way, but for some reason I can't stop watching even though I roll my eyes at almost every scene. 

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Exactly! They could have done so much with Ruthie's character besides all the unnecessary boy drama and given Sam&David actual story lines and realistic personalities, but they wasted so much time on random people.

The boys playing Sam and David were ATROCIOUS actors, though IMO.

But I actually agree with your over all, point.

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The boys playing Sam and David were ATROCIOUS actors, though IMO.

But I actually agree with your over all, point.

That's true, they really were bad even for children actors, but they kept the actor who played Kevin around and gave him plenty of story lines and he was just as horrible IMO. So I'm not giving the writers any slack.

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I never thought it made sense when Lucy decided to become a minister. It didn't fit her personality at all, I didn't think. And I really hated when Eric insisted on hiring her over the church board objections.  Nepotism much?  (I could be getting these details wrong.  I tuned out much of the last few seasons.)

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I always thought Lucy had a lot of talent for building and fixing things, and she was very deep emotionally so I figured she would maybe be an architect or a writer. Never did I think she would choose ministry, since she never seemed all that interested in religion.

 

I honestly think it had more to with pleasing Eric than anything else, because Lucy always seems to need acceptance from her parents even if it means settling.

 

I don't remember how that situation with Eric and the Deacons went, but I'm sure it did cause a fuss.

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Place for discussion of all the episodes. From red socks to Mary doing drugs, discuss here.

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One thing I noticed as the episodes went on is they started relying on the "trick" where they allude to something happening but don't come out and say it until the end of the episode. It was so overly dramatic that it lost all meaning, I think.

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That reminds me of Simon's wedding, where the entire episode they would go back and forth over whether Simon and Rose were going to go through with it, and then the end is so anti-climatic when they don't even show what happens!

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So I was watching reruns again this afternoon and I ran across a scene in season 3 episode 4 "The Legacy" where Ruthie is bugging Simon while he hides under a pillow and she makes a comment about how he should get his ear pierced because it would look "boss" 

 

Fast forward to season 5 episode 5 "Blind" and here's Simon trying to make himself look cool with his ear pierced. And not just any ear, the one Ruthie told him he should pierce, but judging from the reactions he gets I don't think anyone thought it looked "boss" so his little sister totally lied to him.

 

Now i'm wondering if the writers meant for that to happen or if they just completely forgot that scene, either way I find it pretty amusing.

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So where are you guys watching reruns?  I don't think any channels by me show it, but I'd be happy to be wrong! 

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So where are you guys watching reruns?  I don't think any channels by me show it, but I'd be happy to be wrong! 

It comes on every week day on the UP channel usually 12:00 to 3:00pm.

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On Wednesday, March 02, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Firyfly said:

She was Simon's girlfriend in college, she pretended to be pregnant to manipulate him into marriage or something like that.

I thought that was Rose, but I agree that whole entire story was painful to sit through.

As others have said, the show didn't need to become a revolving cast, but to develop the ones that were still there. Which was pretty much everyone except Matt and Mary. Ruthie's mopiness over Whatshisface  (the one that banged Haylie Duff) was the reason I started posting on TWOP. Simon could've had a decent arc after accidentally killing a kid, but that was watered down to "Down feel guilty, he was a pothead anyway" and "let's all obsess about Simon's sex life."

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I honestly think it had more to with pleasing Eric than anything else, because Lucy always seems to need acceptance from her parents even if it means settling.

I have a vague recollection from the end of the series where Lucy was looking for her own congregation, and nearly ended up in some kind of cult town where everyone was required to either be in school or work. 

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23 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

I thought that was Rose, but I agree that whole entire story was painful to sit through.

As others have said, the show didn't need to become a revolving cast, but to develop the ones that were still there. Which was pretty much everyone except Matt and Mary. Ruthie's mopiness over Whatshisface  (the one that banged Haylie Duff) was the reason I started posting on TWOP. Simon could've had a decent arc after accidentally killing a kid, but that was watered down to "Down feel guilty, he was a pothead anyway" and "let's all obsess about Simon's sex life."

I may be looking to deeply into this, but I feel like Ruthie changed a lot when Matt and Robbie left, she seemed so sad and then Simon and Peter left and I think she just attached herself to Martin.

The whole Simon arc really annoys me with the way it was handled, they kept telling him to stop feeling sad and when that didn't work they moved on to Mary's scandal, plus they never explain whether he was driving by himself or was the whole family with him the writers just leave it as a mystery.

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My cable provider doesn't have Up, but yesterday I was watching 7th Heaven at the dentist, and I was shocked by how little I remember about the plotlines the last few seasons. Simon was buying a ring for Rose and Martin got Sandy pregnant and all of this feels familiar, but I can't remember what happened!

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I kind of liked Rose (well at least in the Camverse), because she irritated everyone else and for me that was awesome. I kind of liked anyone that made Annie mad.

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I never realized how awful the later seasons were until I re-watched the entire series and honestly IMO I think everything went down hill in season 6. All the new characters, the badly written story lines and the sudden changes in personality are just baffling to me, I know not everyone agrees with me on this, but I thought the first few seasons were entertaining and sometimes even funny. 

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I agree, @Firyfly, though it's been so long since I've seen the majority of them that I don't know that I could pinpoint Season 6 as where things started going off course.  But the first few seasons, the writing was humorous at times, a little too saccharine, but it was pretty much what you expected it to be.  At some point, most of the main characters became unlikable, the drama became over the top, and the writing completely went off the rails.

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Does anyone else find it disturbing how unhappy and full of regrets Annie is? I mean she covers it up with a huge clown smile, but there are moments when she says something passive aggressively about her life choices and she threw it in Eric's face during menopause a lot, or when she tries so hard to steer her girls away from marriage and kids . On one side it makes me feel bad for her, but on the other side I can't help but be annoyed by her, because she doesn't ever come out and say what she feels, she just holds it in until she explodes and leaves everyone confused. 

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On May 3, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Firyfly said:

I may be looking to deeply into this, but I feel like Ruthie changed a lot when Matt and Robbie left, she seemed so sad and then Simon and Peter left and I think she just attached herself to Martin.

The whole Simon arc really annoys me with the way it was handled, they kept telling him to stop feeling sad and when that didn't work they moved on to Mary's scandal, plus they never explain whether he was driving by himself or was the whole family with him the writers just leave it as a mystery.

On that first part: hmmm...interesting theory, one that I'd agree with if anyone other than Brenda Hampton were running the show. Considering the writing for her next series, I chalk if up to her being incredibly out of touch with teens.

for the second part: the show started doing this thing between the later seasons where the show has a finale and the season premiere would open three months later with new events we had no idea about. Simon's accident was the first notable example, but others include Hayley Duff's pregnancy, Simon's engagement to Rose and Lucy miscarrying her twins.

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I agree that the first half of the show was okay. I mean, it was never gonna be amazing, but it was harmless enough. Then Aaron Spelling's health went into decline and he left more of the producing to Hampton. That was around the time that Jessica Biel left the show and that was the time where BH made it her mission in life to trash Mary's character at every opportunity and the show in general became the prototype for Secret Life of the American Teenager.

After Stephen Collins' confession last year, I'm even more skivved out at that scene where he's watching Ruthie trying to dirty dance, though.

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On 6/2/2016 at 2:57 PM, Anna Yolei said:

After Stephen Collins' confession last year, I'm even more skivved out at that scene where he's watching Ruthie trying to dirty dance, though.

I know! And all the cringe worthy scenes where they are talking about her being "sexy" those scenes were hard to watch before, but now I can't watch it at all.

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Except for Jessica Biel and Stephen Collins, did any of the other actors on the show have much of a career afterwards? I don't recall seeing any of them.

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Matt (can't think of his real name) starred in a show on ABC but I do t think it lasted a full season. 

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I remember seeing Barry Watson pop up on a few episodes of Hart of Dixie, Gossip Girl, and Masters of Sex. The actor that played Martin seems to have pretty steady work. I did not watch it, but I believe he had a regular gig on Teen Wolf for awhile and I know he was just cast as Superman on Supergirl. I cannot remember the guy who played Lucy's husband's brother, but I see him pop up a lot on various shows.

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On 5/20/2016 at 8:50 PM, Firyfly said:

Does anyone else find it disturbing how unhappy and full of regrets Annie is? I mean she covers it up with a huge clown smile, but there are moments when she says something passive aggressively about her life choices and she threw it in Eric's face during menopause a lot, or when she tries so hard to steer her girls away from marriage and kids . On one side it makes me feel bad for her, but on the other side I can't help but be annoyed by her, because she doesn't ever come out and say what she feels, she just holds it in until she explodes and leaves everyone confused. 

 

In the beginning (i think even maybe right up until the twins were born), Annie was happy with her life choices. She always said it, that she could have done a lot of things, because of her degrees and what not but she chose to be a mother. 

it wasn't until Eric + Ruthie started coping a fit that she was teaching at Ruthie's snotty school and she should be at home, and not doing stuff like that that she got all. "I'M HAPPY WITH MY LIFE, OKAY?!" 

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On 3/1/2016 at 8:47 PM, Firyfly said:

Exactly! They could have done so much with Ruthie's character besides all the unnecessary boy drama and given Sam&David actual story lines and realistic personalities, but they wasted so much time on random people.  

Agreed that's one of my biggest complaints about season 11 for the most part that Ruthie's entire story line once she was home from Scotland was pretty much about her relationship with T-Bone and to a lesser extent Martin. Her attitude kind of sucked at times too, like her reaction to Eric wanting her to come home or her thinking T-Bone should be the one to pay for her tattoo removal. I haven't seen the tattoo episode in a long time but I don't think T-Bone told her to get it so I didn't get where that logic came from.

Edited by love21

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The tattoos were Ruthie's idea. She was always a selfish little girl so her character  development isn't really shocking. Perhaps the Sam and David kids couldn't really act so tgere was no way to give them more to do.

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Ruthie sucked. Her frigging depression over Martin is actually what got me to sign up on the original TWoP board, because WTAF? 

Annie was all over the damn place. One year she was bitching about having to bake for the Twins' birthday because they always want her to, and the very next season, when the brats decide they'd rather have a store bought cake, she gets in a snit about it. I think the only consistently written character was Lucy and her paranoia.

 #FreeSavannah

Edited by Anna Yolei
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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 2:09 PM, txhorns79 said:

I have a vague recollection from the end of the series where Lucy was looking for her own congregation, and nearly ended up in some kind of cult town where everyone was required to either be in school or work. 

They were going to make a spin-off.  Thank goodness it didn't happen.  Everyone in the town had to have a job and be a foster parent.  That would be so illegal to require either one just to live in a town.  And, I don't even want to know the kind of foster parent you would make if the only reason you were one was because you inherited a house and wanted to actually live in it and that was the only way. 

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2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Episcopalian. 

 

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Episcopalian. 

I don't think so, Episcopalians have priests not ministers. It was just generic Christian.

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9 hours ago, Willowsmom said:

 

I don't think so, Episcopalians have priests not ministers. It was just generic Christian.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know anything about Episcopalians.  But, they actually said that's what they were in one episode.  I don't remember which one, but it was one with Yasmine, the Muslim girl.

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I hadn't seen the series since Season 3 and I happened to catch it on UP this week.  One ep of interest was "No Sex, Some Drugs and Rock n Roll".  I tuned in only to see so much wasted potential.  The ep was centered on drug abuse/addictions but I think it should have been about responsibilities and the choices we make.  The reverend"s old band shows up for a gig and to reunite with their old bandmate.  We get a taste of where this storyline could have gone when Rev Camden wonders what it might have been had he not gone to divinity school and continued with the band.  The guys mentioned they had no families to speak of (but ex wives!) and they were on the road most of the time.  It would have been better to have had them interact with the family more.  Enjoying home cooked meals, the routine of day to day life, playing with the kids , etc.. Essentially making them wonder if they could have chosen a more stable life .  Instead we got the ridiculous coffee addiction and the Reverend's apparent inability to recognize  the smell of weed (vs incense) was just  stupid.  I can't help but wonder if this ep was ordered by the suits to discourage drug use .  Worst of all Peter Tork's talent was completely wasted here.  

I also wonder if the producers were trying to get the Monkees together as the band since they had thei 30th anniversary in '96 and completed a successful tour in '96-97.

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If some writer decided to make them Episcopal, they should have done their home work first. My uncle was a very strong Episcopalian & they do not have "ministers" or "Reverend", they are very much like Catholics, lots of kneeling, the Priests are dressed in a fancy garb, not the black robe. These people are some type of a generic Christian group. 

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When this show first started, my mom loved it, she would try to get me to watch it,  there must have been something else on at the same time, I never got into watching it. I would watch it periodically, enough to know who the characters were.  Then...they changed networks. Whatever they went to, my mom did not get that station. She would ask me to watch every once in awhile to let her know what was going on. I cannot remember which event it was where I felt the show was going in a very strange direction, the characters were not what they were in the beginning, it was either when Mary was tagged as a "bad girl" for some really stupid reason or Matt marrying that girl he had just met at the hospital.  I told my mom that she should be grateful that she could not watch the show..it was nothing close to what it had started out as. I am watching in reruns now & seeing the early episodes. The kid who played Simon was great. Such a bright, compassionate kid. He turned into a very selfish, self centered person. The youngest girl was cute at first but even as the early episodes go in, becomes very unlikable. The mother turned into the nastiest, most hateful character. I've never seen a show where the characters changed so much.

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On 3/3/2017 at 8:08 PM, alegtostandon said:

Mary was tagged as a "bad girl" for some really stupid reason or Matt marrying that girl he had just met at the hospital.  

Part of Mary's issues stemmed from real life events.  IIRC, she was butting heads with the producers and starting to get a bit big for her britches.  She was also seeing the actor who played her boyfriend on the show.  Eventually, the producers got fed up and had Mary get sent away to her grandparents but the boyfriend stayed on the show.  It was set up that whenever Beil was back on set, the boyfriend would not be on set at the same time or not in an episode at all.  

I don't know what the idiots were thinking when they had Matt marry Rachel.  For one thing,  different religions.  IRL, that marriage wouldn't have happened much less worked out.  Despite my appreciation of comedian Richard Lewis, I can't see his character (a Reformed Rabbi) allowing the union .  Not to mention virtually no buildup.  Kind of reminds you of sitcom characters who fall in love with people you never see or hear about onscreen until  the finale (or the character's exit) when they announce they're getting married quick and running off somewhere.

Edited by magicdog

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6 hours ago, magicdog said:

I don't know what the idiots were thinking when they had Matt marry Rachel.  For one thing,  different religions.  IRL, that marriage wouldn't have happened much less worked out.  Despite my appreciation of comedian Richard Lewis, I can't see his character (a Reformed Rabbi) allowing the union .  Not to mention virtually no buildup.  Kind of reminds you of sitcom characters who fall in love with people you never see or hear about onscreen until  the finale (or the character's exit) when they announce they're getting married quick and running off somewhere.

The differences were the whole point.  The show spent years telling us Matt was impulsive, especially  when it came to women . And basically this marriage was a way to show Matt out from under his rather domineering parents thumbs.

And I disagree  that a rabbi wouldn't allow  such a marriage. Remember Matt converted.

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I don't know what the idiots were thinking when they had Matt marry Rachel

Wasn't her name Sarah?

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Episcopalians have been referred to as "Catholic Lite".  They share many things in common and are more or less equivalent to Anglicans,

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