Jump to content
saoirse

S02.E08: And The Point Of Salvation

Recommended Posts

The Clipping Book sends the team to a high-tech research facility, where the researchers have been turned into mindless monsters by some bizarre power source in the center's lab. When they disconnect the artifact, however, they find themselves stuck in a time loop.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I had my doubts when it started but I found the character development of Ezekiel believable and well written.  I find his re-set disappointing though.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post

The reset was disappointing but beliavable. The show doesn't want Ezekiel to change too much Too fast. The point was to show the man he is capable of being. I did find a lot of it moving which is rare for Ezekiel episodes.

Best line:

Ezekiel "Crazy? On a scale of running from Minotaurs to Santa is now our best buddy where would time loop fall?"

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

Just wondering if I'm the only one who is grateful when Flynn ISN"T on the show. I am however, extremely grateful that Noah Wyle is Executive Producer of the show.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post

I'm so glad they called out all the other movies/tv shows that had done the same thing right at the beginning. I'm not so sure Zeke is reset. The others need him to be a less useful I think.  Also glad that the show called out that they realize he is kind of not the same caliber as the others -  but I love him.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

I thought last season was fun enough, but this season keeps getting better and better. Love the character development they've given everyone this year, and this ep might just be the best one yet. It's nice to see that Ezekiel is capable of being more than the others - and he himself - give him credit for. And I'm personally holding onto the belief that he does actually remember everything, at least until the show flat out says otherwise.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

There's two episodes you can only do once: time loop and body switching. Stargate SG1 owns the best time loop, and Farscape owns the body switching. 

I thought this was a good time loop episode at the start because the other librarians and Eve were ok with Jones in every loop. But the show took it in a totally different direction with the game angle, and it was just so much fun, but really tragic. I really liked how Eve told the story so many times. 

But it still relied on Jones cheating the game, so I thought that was a good character point. I'm not convinced that he's completely unaware what happened. 

Seriously though, this month, this show has been firing on all cylinders.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post

I liked this episode. I was sitting here thinking "oh, Groundhog Day, been there, done that" so when it turned into a video game, it was a good twist.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

I was hoping Ezekiel remembered and was just faking it -- and would still love it if that's the case -- but the look he gives at the end felt definite to me that he doesn't. He gets a wondering "could it be?" expression, followed by a "nah, no way" smirk . Granted, that's not dialogue. An acting/directing choice could be contradicted down the line.

 

Agree with Chaos Theory that the writers might not want him to mature overnight. They show us what might be, but leave room to tell those stories. TBH, I was wondering how they were going to move forward with his character after the massive emotional growth spurt he was experiencing. He'd be a totally different guy. (One I like a whole lot better.)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

"The Point of Salvation" is a really terrific title.

 

It was nice to see trigger points, puzzles (that's not how locks work!), and rocket jumps (that's not how grenades work!) make an appearance.

 

Many good visual jokes, with how the backpack and the first aid kit worked, for example.

 

It was a pretty smart take on being "trapped in a videogame", which I've never seen done this well anywhere else. 

Edited by Latverian Diplomat
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

As a game player, I loved that they called out a lot of the gaming tropes once they did realize they were in a game (or rather once Ezekiel realized it). Just the comment on the Escort mission had me LOLing. (And yes, Escorts are the bane of gamers across all genres). The fact that the Rage guy didn't aggro until they got close even though they were all in the same room was a nice touch (especially when they called it out)

 

Loved that he ultimately resorted to Map Hacks to 'beat' the level, and didn't mind that it glitched the game; most likely after a bunch more iterations it would have glitched anyway. He's just lucky it was a save point game and not one that limited lives or he'd probably have been screwed. 

 

*Edit* And yes, "That's not how locks work!" and Rocket jumps and the Video Game backpack logic were all fantastic.

 

One minor quibble I'll have is that he needed to pull people out to solve problems that they'd solved in earlier iterations as a group... but I'll just chalk it up to Ezekiel not paying attention when the lock and plumbing puzzles were solved the first few times. 

Edited by Taeolas
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

"The Point of Salvation" is a really terrific title.

 

It is.  It'd make a good video game I think.

 

Loads of tweets going around asking if the Fae was voiced by Brent Spiner.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I still don't see how Jones didn't remember.  He was the player, not a game piece.  If not making a save point meant he lost all memory, then why was he remembering all of the other loops when he never made it to the next save point?  

Edited by MelinaBallerina

Share this post


Link to post

I think it's because everyone else made it to the save point, so once some of the party was "saved", the old save point was wiped out.

Edited by CoyoteBlue
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Loads of tweets going around asking if the Fae was voiced by Brent Spiner.

 

I thought it sounded like Rene Auberjonois. But, then, I'm often not very good at this game. :)

Share this post


Link to post

I thought it sounded like Rene Auberjonois. But, then, I'm often not very good at this game. :)

I thought Spiner as well, which would be funny since he was also the voice of Puck in Gargoyles, which Frakes was also in.

Edited by Matt K

Share this post


Link to post

Best line:

Ezekiel "Crazy? On a scale of running from Minotaurs to Santa is now our best buddy where would time loop fall?"

 

I was all set to be annoyed with how long it would take for the others to believe about the time loop but their quick acceptance of this perfectly reasonable explanation was fantastic.  

 

I'm not a gamer at all but I found the rules of how video games work really interesting.  I love it when I learn things by watching TV.  Books can suck it :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I appreciated that they referenced the loop trope from so many shows and then changed it to a video game. I continue to not appreciate Ezekiel Jones referring to himself as Ezekiel Jones every 3rd sentence.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

It was pretty clear to me the folks on The Librarians are actual gamers. They used a lot of gaming terminology (speedrun, arena, boss battle) correctly.

Also, bonus points for having Brent Spiner play Puck. Again. Because Gargoyles is the best.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

So glad we finally got an Ezekiel episode! It seems like of all the main characters, he is the one often least focused on, so I am really glad they have him this chance to develop his character. Yeah, it is disappointing that he reverted back to normal at the end, but at least everyone else (including the audience) knows what he did, and what he is actually capable of. I thought it was all very believable, and really well done. 

 

Loved all the video game references, and the different take on the Groundhog Day Loop. This show has gotten really creative about taking familiar characters and tropes, and playing around with them. I loved the visual of putting random things into the backpack. I loved the complaints about how locks work, I just thought it was so clever and fun.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

I was all set to be annoyed with how long it would take for the others to believe about the time loop but their quick acceptance of this perfectly reasonable explanation was fantastic.

One of the things I like about the show is that despite the crazy and magical world they live in some crazy magical stuff still gives them pause.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

The notion the others more or less despised Ezekiel until he saved their lives isn't quite the enthralling lesson the show seems to think. The real structural problem with Ezekiel (as I see it,) which is that he's so ignorant you can't figure out why he's a librarian, remains. The show really seems to think that being young and hip was a character, and being cool means you don't know anything boring like math, science, art, history, etc., and being a thief is really really cool.

But a really good episode, and at least it gave John Kim a chance to show an emotion other than self-satisfaction.

Share this post


Link to post

I was just thinking this season needed an Ezekiel episode, and they delivered!

Really great stuff, especially turning the time loop into a game. They had me at the health pack...

I was hoping Ezekiel remembered and was just faking it -- and would still love it if that's the case -- but the look he gives at the end felt definite to me that he doesn't. He gets a wondering "could it be?" expression, followed by a "nah, no way" smirk . Granted, that's not dialogue. An acting/directing choice could be contradicted down the line.

 

To me it looked more like a "Should I really be doing this?", "Eh, whatever" look. Maybe because he's embarrassed he was a little too open?

Hopefully he does remember, in whatever way possible.

Share this post


Link to post
The notion the others more or less despised Ezekiel until he saved their lives isn't quite the enthralling lesson the show seems to think. The real structural problem with Ezekiel (as I see it,) which is that he's so ignorant you can't figure out why he's a librarian, remains.

 

I would respectfully disagree. I don't think the others despise Ezekiel at all (even before this episode). They don't take him seriously because he himself doesn't take himself seriously. He's like an annoying little brother who is talented in what he does but self-praise all the time that your only possible response is to roll your eyes. I can easily see why Ezekiel was chosen by the Library as a librarian. He is a genius, not only in the many manners of thievery but in this episode alone, he was able to learn, what I assume in a short amount of time, the knowledge he required from Eve, Cassandra and Stone. I bet he's the type that can learn anything fast if he has interest. His character is also kind and courageous when truly required.

 

Not gonna lie, I had tears in my eyes when he was panicking over them not believing him in the final iteration. The showrunner and the writers are doing a great job this season. But please, no more Flynn. I like Flynn in his movies but not in this.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
The real structural problem with Ezekiel (as I see it,) which is that he's so ignorant you can't figure out why he's a librarian, remains.

 

To be fair, he did say he worked for MI-5, so it's not like he's incompetent. And, when they did the season ender where Eve died in all the realities, when he was the only librarian, he was very serious and was running a big lab.

 

One could reasonably fanwank that being on his own for so long contributed to his social issues, or that his time at MI5 wasn't go great and he did some things he wasn't proud of. So it could be a defense mechanism.

 

One thing I liked about Leverage is that they made the creative decision to not delve too much into the background of the group. Hardison always obliquely referenced his Nana, but you didn't get much more of what she was like, why she raised him, where they lived, etc. 

Here, you kind of need to know a little why the Library chose these people, and I think they've done a good job of that, but I don't think this is the kind of show where you need to examine everyone's past traumas. I tend to think it makes for better character moments, actually. I really liked Cassandra's "I want to chose when it's my time." 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
he's so ignorant you can't figure out why he's a librarian

 

He's ignorant outside his sphere, but so are all of them.  That's why they need to work together.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

The whole "Groundhog Day" concept on tv shows in this type of genre can be a bit much at times, but when they are done right, I always enjoy them.  And I really loved this one, especially the twist of it not being a time loop, but being stuck in a video game.  I didn't see it coming (and I should have since they had that random scene of a scientist playing a game), but it was awesome.  Loved Ezekiel and Jake being so excited once they realized what was happening.  And I do think the writers clearly have more affection for video games then the norm, because it wasn't treated as clunky or condensing like other shows treat them.  The closet they might have came to it was Baird's reactions, but I can totally buy someone like her not being into them.  But all the references were spot-on: especially the part about escort missions.  Those really are one of the most hated parts about any video game.

 

Still, I did like it wasn't all fun and games.  As entertaining as it could be (and, yes, I totally laughed at Jake getting electrocuted), seeing your friends dying over and over again, has to take a toll, even if you know they will come back.  So, I liked that it did effect Ezekiel and he briefly grew up in this one, and was willing to sacrifice himself more then normal.  Probably the best work John Kim has done in this so far.  It is too bad Ezekiel lost all his memories of what happened, but I'm hoping it will be a case that their will still be leftover effects that even he is unaware of, and he will be slightly more mature.  Slightly though, because he still is more or less, the annoying younger child of this group.  And while it can be grating at times, it does allow Jake/Christian Kane to show off his annoyed reaction peformance, which he clearly excels at between this and Leverage.

 

That ending also took me by surprise.  Thought the fairy sounded familiar, so it makes sense if it was Brent Spiner.

 

Glad to hear it's been renewed.  These past two episodes in particular have been really good, and I think overall, this is just a fun show.  I'm glad it will be sticking around for at least another season.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I really enjoyed the episode and am thrilled the show's got a third season. :D

I'm hoping that Ezekiel actually does recall everything but is not willing to admit it because then the others might actually expect him to act like a grown up. IMO he's comfortable in the 'sometimes annoying younger brother who can't be given too much responsibility' role so would prefer to not give it up. I tend to think that a lot of his personality is defensive so that people don't look further than the 'fun guy'. It'd actually be nice if in one of the next episodes he slips up and they realise he recalls everything.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

If Ezekiel remembered everything, it would be like PTSD. The amnesia is by far the best way to keep the show from focusing on character angst.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe not remember everything, but somehow has deja vu now and then. Not remembering it at all is too much of a reset button. 

Share this post


Link to post

If Ezekiel remembered everything, it would be like PTSD. The amnesia is by far the best way to keep the show from focusing on character angst.

That's a really good point that got right by me. It really would effectively cripple him in the field if he wasn't willing to see them in danger.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Mr. Jenkins comments about comment sites. I wonder which sites he was commenting on that he

got bad comments on. I suppose he could have been talking in general but it sounded a little personal.

What sites does he leave comments on?

Share this post


Link to post

Mr. Jenkins comments about comment sites. I wonder which sites he was commenting on that he

got bad comments on. I suppose he could have been talking in general but it sounded a little personal.

What sites does he leave comments on?

 

I took that as a personal reflection from the writers...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Mr. Jenkins comments about comment sites. I wonder which sites he was commenting on that he

got bad comments on. I suppose he could have been talking in general but it sounded a little personal.

What sites does he leave comments on?

 

 

I took that as a personal reflection from the writers...

Muu-muu wearing, Parliament smoking so-&-sos!  Oops, wrong show runners!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

That was great! I hate time-loop stories and I was so happy when it turned out to be something completely different and quite innovative. Being the only person in the universe to like Ezekiel (well at least it felt like it at times) I'm more than happy with this episode. And as for the reasons cited above I'm glad he does not remember. He can't revert back to truly old Ezekiel since throughout the season there were tiny steps of character growth for him. And the others did notice those even before this episode so there can't be a complete reset.

(Pssst... Sleepy Hollow: that's how you do a -good- sophomore season.)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

It's certainly an interesting juxtoposition (that may or may not apply later). Think about it. For countless iterations, Ezekiel was changing while everyone else stayed the same. From the rest of the Librarian's point of view, they stepped through the door and suddenly Ezekiel is hyper-competant and telling them the world isn't what it seems.

 

Now, in the last iteration, they've had hours to get used ot the Hyper competent Zeke, and suddenly they're back to the original one. 

 

Hopefully we'll see flashes from the Game version Zeke for the finale; the writers have proven that the hints they give are rarely left behind. (Granted it also seems to be some major world events happening given the end of the episode with Jenkins. Can't wait for the next ep. :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
From the rest of the Librarian's point of view, they stepped through the door and suddenly Ezekiel is hyper-competant [sic] and telling them the world isn't what it seems.

 

What's really great about the show was that there was minimal time wasted establishing his credibility. Which points to a larger picture, in that Eve and the Librarians actually do trust him more than we've seen on screen. So even if there was a reset, it's still a good character building piece. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

That was great! I hate time-loop stories and I was so happy when it turned out to be something completely different and quite innovative. Being the only person in the universe to like Ezekiel (well at least it felt like it at times) I'm more than happy with this episode. And as for the reasons cited above I'm glad he does not remember. He can't revert back to truly old Ezekiel since throughout the season there were tiny steps of character growth for him. And the others did notice those even before this episode so there can't be a complete reset.

(Pssst... Sleepy Hollow: that's how you do a -good- sophomore season.)

I've always liked Ezekial too. I loved his growth, and hated that he forgot it, until I thought about it and agree that it's ultimately a good thing.

 

I'm not a gamer but enjoyed it anyway - I do know enough about them to at least understand the basics. I probably missed  few references (and the first aid box puzzled me at first, but I rolled with it).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Stargate SG1 owns the best time loop

I must respectfully suggest that a recent Dr Who episode is a serious contender for 'best time loop' which is really saying something for a show actually ABOUT time travel.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

The one where Twelve is trapped in the castle thing? I thought it dragged. You don't get the reveal till near the end.

 

The SG1 is better because you've got 4 characters to work with, and with this kinds of episodes I think you need to make sure the viewer is clued in as soon as you can. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
×