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S01.E10: AKA 1,000 Cuts

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I'm still disappointed that Clarke Peters was killed off by Simpson. I still feel like Simpson was kind of shoehorned into the overarching plot and it didn't work for me. Also, apparently, Det. Clemmons played a big role in the Punisher comics so it's doubly disappointed that he won't be around for season 2 of Daredevil or season 1 of Luke Cage. Le sigh.

 

Also, I hate that it took such a horrific tragedy for Jeri to finally realized just how fucked up Kilgrave really was. If she had just listened to and trusted Jessica, things wouldn't have gone so far. Gracious, that attack between Wendy and Jeri was so scary to watch.

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I also don't get why some victims can be rationally conversational (like Jeri and Wendy) when controlled by Kilgrave while other victims are like lobotomized robots.

I think it just depends on your reaction. If, for example, your natural response would have been contrary to his order, what you end up saying comes out zombielike. However, if whatever you would've said anyway can meet the demand, then you're able to say it, and therefore sound more like yourself.

It's sort of like how Jessica resolves Trish's issue by having her put the bullet in her mouth. And Trish did so and was fine. If Trish had thought of such a thing, she could've calmly done it in the first place. But since she didn't interpret the command otherwise, she was freaking out desperate to complete it. Someone who is either used to Kilgrave, or just used to playing with semantics is more likely to have success, not necessarily resisting him but subverting him when what he says is not precise. The quickest victims are those who interpret an ambiguous command in the worst possible way. But of course, if you didn't know who you were dealing with, you wouldn't necessarily be prepared to try and come up with an alternative interpretation.

A lovely (horrible, but lovely-intriguing) ambiguity is, one could see Jeri's reaction and taking him to Wendy just as a plain response to "doctor you trust"; that's either the only person who came to mind or the first person and thus she had no control. But there might've been several doctors she trusts, and because she'd already been wanting a reason to use Kilgrave on the wife, she knew exactly what she was doing taking him there. Even if she could have weighed a few options and picked a different one. She was calm and collected in the car with him. She didn't seem robotic. So she may have been quick thinking enough to just plain find acceptable responses to him without the awkwardness that occurs because you're saying something to him because you're trying not to and couldn't help it.

Edited by theatremouse
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Oh Jeri. Your arrogance and your conviction that you can handle every situation (I love that she used that word again at the end) was your downfall. I wasn't surprised that her first instinct was to go to Wendy. Having that backfire so terribly on her, I can't say I feel bad for her but it's completely in character in combination with the tough spot she finds herself in.

 

It's not nice when you are at the receiving end of Jeri's manipulations, isn't it, Pam. I guess get out before you become the next Wendy seems like a good idea.

 

That was quite an episode. Poor Clemons. So, Simpson wasn't kilgraved, just redpilled by his own choice. Dick.

 

I could barely watch when Trish was trying to jam the bullet in her head.

 

So, the vaccine isn't working. Great.

 

I'm a bit conflicted about Hope's suicide.

On the one hand it feels like a cheap ploy to get us back to the standard hero-has-to-kill-supervillain plot to end the season. On the other hand, her taking herself out of the equation did also feel like taking control back. She did take her agency back as much as she could when she tried to get rid of the baby, so it doesn't completely feel like a redshirt making way for our hero to go on the final supervillain-killing rampage.

 

Oh God, that fetus. Kilgrave knows where it is now. Seriously, Jeri.

 

ETA: I've only wanted to watch two episodes starting from 1x05 today to stretch it out over a few weeks and now I'm on 1x09 and debating whether I should just finish.

Edited by supposebly
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I knew I didn't trust Simpson, but I still yelled out "Son of a bitch!" when he shot Clemons.

 

Agreeing with whoever above said that Robyn's reaction was off. She'd just found out that Ruben had died, but she was more concerned with winding up the support group folks than in shock or in grief. It just didn't seem in character. She's a whackjob, but her defining feature otherwise was her attachment to her twin. So the haranguing and lynch mobbing just didn't work for me.

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"Only if she expands her wardrobe to something other than patterned wrap dresses."<br /><br />I thought I was the only one struggling to understand when anyone would refer to Pam as "well dressed."

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To have that person be the wife she was divorcing, the wife that she had sicced Jessica on, the wife she was treating rather badly in her efforts to get out of the marriage, the wife who had been threatening to spill secrets about Jeri... and yet, apparently, she still trusted her.

I think the wording of the command “take me to a doctor you trust” was why Jeri kept telling Pam it was complicated. It’s not clear if Jeri was able to interpret the command in a favourable way (i.e taking Kilgrave to mind rape Wendy into signing the divorce papers) or if she still trusted Wendy despite everything.

 

Hope didn't have a lot to go back to and she saw herself as a detriment to Jessica doing what needed to be done to eradicate Kilgrave.

Ironically Hope might have been better off taking the original plea deal. Twenty years might have given the world time to discover mind control and Hope’s brother might have gone looking for the truth about what happened. Getting out straightaway means she has no family, her college career is in ruins and she would have attracted unwanted notoriety and attention.

 

I think it makes sense for Hope to do what she did but it made the show feel unbalanced. That was a major defeat for Jessica and at this point it feels like Kilgrave is the main character of the show. It doesn’t help that the case of the week element quickly became non-existent.

 

Kilgrave's parents stayed for about four years after his powers manifested.  And then apparently walked off one day?

Well they aren’t immune as per this episode so I suspect they escaped one day because of a gap in Kilgrave’s commands. That would be easy for a child to forget to do especially if the child version of Kilgrave didn’t completely understand his powers.

 

I didn't mind the support group turning on Jessica, like some people have on here and elsewhere because they all have a lot of sadness and rage and nowhere to direct it. As the episode's end showed they can't go after Kilgrave so Jessica, unfortunately, was a convenient focus for their paranoia and anger.

Edited by Beatriceblake
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I have really , really been enjoying this show, but this episode and the one preceding it were so much more violent than the rest.  Very dark, scary, hard for me to watch.  They didn't make me as excited to continue.  Also, I miss Luke.

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I overall really like the show, but I tend to come here to post about the few elements I don't like or don't buy.

Why was Pam handcuffed at all? I would think that scene and her and Jeri's testimony would make it pretty clear cut self defense / defense of another.

I don't really get the evolution of Simpson's character. He was introduced as someone who was deeply against killing innocent people. Now he kills the detective for no reason at all? It seems like his character was changed to fit with a pre-existing comic book character but it didn't really work for me. Is he going to be a bad guy in another Netflix series?

Even Hope wants Jessica to kill Kilgrave. I think they had a few too many episodes of catch and release and refusing to kill him (or even break his jaw so he can't give orders!). I guess now that Hope got Jessica to promise to kill him, the plot can move along a little more.

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Kilgrave's parents stayed for about four years after his powers manifested.  And then apparently walked off one day?  It could be that only powered people can develop an immunity, or that the immunity is less a function of biochemistry than psychology.  I thought Jessica might have become immune because he pushed her to do something so much in opposition to her own identity.  Like the circuit in her mind that he tapped into for control was burnt out, never to be repaired.

 

It seemed to me they finally left after Kevin forced his mom to burn herself with the iron. At that point they realized the terrible danger they were in and left. What I still wonder about was whether or not any of their initial interaction in the 'cell' was genuine. If she hadn't stabbed him with the scissors, was there an opportunity for real reconciliation and assumption of responsibility? Was he having real feelings or was he acting the way he thought he was supposed to act?

Edited by marcee
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I was surprised that Jessica only now figured out that she's immune. I thought that was clear from the flashbacks to the bus incident, but I suppose if she had misremembered the exact sequence of events, that would explain why she didn't know for sure. It certainly clarifies her mindset in the previous episodes. I sorta suspected she didn't get it, but I wasn't sure until this ep.

 

The one thing about this show that throws me is how variable or non-spectacular Jessica's powers are. For example, super strength and super jumping both imply, from a purely physical perspective, a resistance to physical trauma. Yet Crazy Neighbour was able not only to knock Jessica out with one blow to the head, but to knock her out overnight.

 

I figure PTSD kept her from realizing that that she was immune. Even with her claim that she remembers everything, she may not and probably does not. I can specifically believe that in all of what was going on in her head after killing Reva, she may not have heard Kilgrave's commands, or even if she did, she could have come to the conclusion that it was a fluke and that he could start controlling her again.

 

With regard to Jessica's powers waxing or waning to serve the plot...well, join the club. Pretty sure you can fill in the blank for superheroes who have gotten taken out by a sucker punch one moment but can take out 20 mooks in another.

 

Like our recapper, I was wondering how Robyn-- a total stranger to the support group-- could whip them up into a frenzy, especially one that was to take it's  hurt/frustration/whatever out on the woman who believed them.  To me, that was Kilgravian levels of suggestion. Such as them seeming to buy into the "she's probably in league with him!" crap.

 

The thing is that the support group was already well positioned to be in a frenzy. They'd talked and talked and it hadn't fundamentally changed anything. Robyn pointed out that Jessica was connected to Kilgrave in a fundamentally creepy way. (Although Zegna guy should have pointed out that Kilgrave's commanding him had nothing to do with Jessica as far as he knew.)

 

It was a little contrived that the guys went to "let's beat her up" as a first instinct, and that Robyn, who knows how superhumanly strong Jessica is didn't warn them fist-fighting might not be the best. It also didn't make sense that Robyn was thinking that Ruben was maybe alive in there. Or that she doesn't think maybe this captive is the Kilgrave guy, or someone who could lead to Kilgrave. But at least part of all that is Robyn is crazy.

 

I overall really like the show, but I tend to come here to post about the few elements I don't like or don't buy.

Why was Pam handcuffed at all? I would think that scene and her and Jeri's testimony would make it pretty clear cut self defense / defense of another.

I don't really get the evolution of Simpson's character. He was introduced as someone who was deeply against killing innocent people. Now he kills the detective for no reason at all? It seems like his character was changed to fit with a pre-existing comic book character but it didn't really work for me. Is he going to be a bad guy in another Netflix series?

Even Hope wants Jessica to kill Kilgrave. I think they had a few too many episodes of catch and release and refusing to kill him (or even break his jaw so he can't give orders!). I guess now that Hope got Jessica to promise to kill him, the plot can move along a little more.

It's unclear if Pam has told her side of things to the cops. General strategy for someone arrested is to not have the client talk. It's unclear how much the cops would have pieced together shortly after the arrest, but if they had access to some level of the info we do, they would know that Wendy and Jeri were divorcing over Pam, and that things were getting pretty acrimonious. That might warrant a second look from the coppers. Could be that frustration over the divorce and the potential to lose 90 percent of her assets led to Pam and Jeri coming up with the scheme of faking an attack by Wendi to cover up murder. Someone as crafty as Jeri might be willing to take 30 relatively superficial wounds to get her way.

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Man, the bodies are just piling up now. Ruben really kicked things off but now we also have Kilgrave's mother, Clemons, Hope, and Wendy (plus Simpson's "boys" who got blown up). Of all the recently killed people, Clemons is the only one whose death wasn't caused by Kilgrave, but he was only there because of Kilgrave so I'd say Kilgrave was still somewhat to blame for his death. I really hope Malcolm manages to live through this.

Poor Wendy. First her wife cheats on her, then she files for divorce and doesn't want to give Wendy what she's asking for, then Kilgrave tells Wendy to attack her ex, and then her ex's new girlfriend kills her.

And Hope! RIP - and I mean that in every possible way. After everything she's been through, hopefully she found some peace after deciding to free Jessica from her determination to keep Kilgrave alive for her sake.

I keep going back and forth on Pam. When she found out that Jeri had taken her to the same restaurant where she had proposed to Wendy, I was glad that she was disgusted. When Jeri showed her the ring she had bought, I liked that Pam told her that she couldn't be all in until Jeri was actually divorced. These two things made me feel like even though Pam was in love, she still had enough self respect and dignity not to be content as the sidepiece. But then in the previous episode, I lost a lot of respect for her when she talked about how powerful Jeri was in court and then stuck her hand up her skirt. Even though things took a terrible turn in this episode, at least now she sees Jeri's true nature. Poor Wendy didn't realize the extent of it until they were divorcing.

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On 11/24/2015 at 5:58 PM, calliope1975 said:

 

In a very weird, sad, twisted way, I felt that Hope's suicide gave her a little bit of control back. She decided to take herself out of the equation and ensure that Jessica could kill Kilgrave.

That was how I read Hope's decision. Throughout this whole story, Hope didn't have a choice or say in anything. She really had nothing to lose, thought about it, and decided her life in the end didn't balance out the many victims of Kilgrave and therefore she wanted to sacrifice herself for the greater good.

Although man, I knew that things wouldn't end well for Hope even though I kept hoping there was some kind of way to save her. Her poor, poor little brother.

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6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Although man, I knew that things wouldn't end well for Hope even though I kept hoping there was some kind of way to save her. Her poor, poor little brother.

Hope and her little brother were the saddest part of this whole show for me.  My youngest son (13) and daughter (18) are very close, and I just can't even imagine how utterly devastating a situation like this would be.  For both of them.  

That poor kid's going to grow up knowing his sister killed both of their parents and then killed herself.  I can't even imagine how effed up he's going to be.  And all because Kilgrave wanted to use Hope as bait.

There is no death "good enough" for Kilgrave, there really isn't.

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On 9/16/2017 at 10:06 AM, Taryn74 said:

Hope and her little brother were the saddest part of this whole show for me.  My youngest son (13) and daughter (18) are very close, and I just can't even imagine how utterly devastating a situation like this would be.  For both of them.  

That poor kid's going to grow up knowing his sister killed both of their parents and then killed herself.  I can't even imagine how effed up he's going to be.  And all because Kilgrave wanted to use Hope as bait.

I really hope if this show lasts for awhile that they bring on Hope's brother as a very angry, very jaded teen boy. I can see being around Hope's little brother really messing with Jessica's head, and I can see Jessica feeling a very personal need to save him. Because we know that kid is going to be messed up with a capital M.

Edited by methodwriter85
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On 11/29/2015 at 12:25 AM, MisterGlass said:

ETA: I can't tell if Kilgrave doesn't realize the experiments were originally designed to keep him alive, if he's convinced himself they were monstrous, or if his parents went well beyond the life-saving phase of the treatment with their continued testing.  The other children certainly didn't look like they were part of some type of virus trial.

I thought it was fascinating that the writers showed the video, which seemed to support Kilgrave's belief that his parents tortured him, and then introduced the parents, who explained that they were trying to save his life. Because he is so evil, I was inclined to believe his parents' explanation of the reason for the experiments and that they loved him, but even if his parents were telling the truth I could see Kilgrave as a child only seeing the experience as torture and not really understanding or believing that they were doing this to help him. Still, the fact that there were other children on the video apparently being tortured makes me wonder if the parents were lying and were, in fact, evil themselves. Or maybe they convinced themselves that the end justified the means for what they were trying to accomplish. I hope the question of what the parents were really doing and what happened to the other tortured children comes up in future episodes.

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On 12/5/2015 at 10:50 PM, supposebly said:

So, the vaccine isn't working.

I'm not sure that it isn't. Initially when Kilgrave commanded his father to come, his father hesitated and slightly smiled at Jessica, then after a few moments his feet started to move but very slowly. So he may have had some resistance but not enough time had gone by since he took the vaccine for it to have full effect. (Also, why would spraying the vaccine on your body work at all? Don't vaccines normally have to be injected or at least administered nasally (like some forms of the flu vaccine?) Another possibility is that the vaccine did work but the father decided to take responsibility (as Kilgrave's mother had insisted) and go to Kilgrave so he would let Hope and the others go; that possibility assumes that Kilgrave's parents were not evil (see my comment above).

On 12/13/2015 at 11:15 AM, Fabaire said:

"Only if she expands her wardrobe to something other than patterned wrap dresses."<br /><br />I thought I was the only one struggling to understand when anyone would refer to Pam as "well dressed."

When I first saw Pam's dress, I recognized the style right away as a Diane Von Furstenberg wrap dress (or an imitation of that designer). Decades ago when I was young and slim, I bought a DVF to wear to a wedding and got lots of compliments--that style is designed to be very flattering. It was the first designer dress I ever had (and I haven't had more than 2 or 3 in my life since), so I still have an affection for that style. But it did seem ridiculous that Pam wore the same style all the time. I also wondered why the first two (or three?) she wore had deep cleavage but the last one she wore, in the scene where she let Jeri feel her up but then gave Jeri an ultimatum, had no cleavage. (Stupid thing to wonder about, I know.)

On 12/18/2015 at 9:31 AM, LeGrandElephant said:

I don't really get the evolution of Simpson's character. He was introduced as someone who was deeply against killing innocent people. Now he kills the detective for no reason at all?

Yes, this really bothered me. I get that he was on drugs, but could the drugs have the same effect as Kilgrave's control--forcing someone to do something that goes completely against their basic moral code? I'm guessing that Dr. Kozlov gave orders to leave no witnesses, but it still doesn't feel right when Simpson was so torn up about trying to kill Trish and so obsessed with getting rid of Kilgrave so as to prevent further killing.

I know these posts are long after the season ended and probably no one is reading them, but I'm so intrigued by this show and feel the need to discuss. I do appreciate the insights from all of your posts above.  

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2 hours ago, Paloma said:

I know these posts are long after the season ended and probably no one is reading them, but I'm so intrigued by this show and feel the need to discuss.

Ha ha ha, considering I just came to this thread after reading/discussing Season 4 of the X-Files, which would have aired mid-90s, there's no such thing as "too long after" IMO.

 

2 hours ago, Paloma said:

Another possibility is that the vaccine did work but the father decided to take responsibility (as Kilgrave's mother had insisted) and go to Kilgrave so he would let Hope and the others go

Hmm, interesting idea!  I never considered that.

 

Man, I can't even think about Kilgrave and Hope without becoming furious all over again.  I want to kill him a thousand times over with my bare hands.

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On 3/19/2018 at 7:52 AM, Paloma said:

 

I know these posts are long after the season ended and probably no one is reading them, but I'm so intrigued by this show and feel the need to discuss. I do appreciate the insights from all of your posts above.  

I'm just now getting to this show as well so you're not alone.

The Thomsons back story really bothered me and takes me out of the show because it doesn't add up with what we were shown.  They say they were trying to help their beloved child with a dreaded disease.  But they did taps on him with no anesthesia, not even a local??  Why would they film that?? What's the experimental value of THAT?? When Jessica calls the University of Manchester, the prof she speaks to is clearly flipped out and disgusted by whatever experiments they conducted.  Not exactly the reaction you'd expect to people valiantly trying to save their child.  And as has been pointed out there were other children in the videos, not just Kilgrave.  This whole plot point is a real mess for me.

Overall though I really enjoy the show.  I'm not a superhero/ Marvel Universe fan, this is actually the first thing I've seen from that franchise including the movies (with the exception of the first Iron Man).  Everything I know about it has just seeped into my consciousness via pop culture.  Even with no background in it, the series stands up well as it's own thing for me.  The only part that required some reference point in the source material was the Eastman (entirely pointless waste of time) subplot.  Tallent is killing it, the Trish character is probably my favorite on the show, and I appreciate that almost everyone on the show with the exception of her, Hope, and Malcolm are some degree of asshole.  I haven't been able to truly binge it because it's so dark I can only take an episode or two at a time before I have to run off and watch Victoria for awhile.  Good show

Edited by LateJuliet
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1 hour ago, LateJuliet said:

I haven't been able to truly binge it because it's so dark I can only take an episode or two at a time

It was the same way for hubby and myself when we watched S1.  Kilgrave is just that disturbing.

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This was the episode that really took me out of the show. I thought it was disappointing that they killed off so many supporting characters and abruptly ended half of the storylines.

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