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S01.E08: AKA WWJD?

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Finally back on track. I wasn't into the "let's play house" scenario. It sort of highlighted that Kilgrave doesn't really have a compelling evil plan; he just likes to be pleased. It's funny when he marvels at how boring it is to wait for people to do what you want them to do, but it's odd that he's not bored of his power (like how Dorian Gray in Penny Dreadful thrives on pushing the envelope because he's seen everything).

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Actually, it makes sense. When you can literary make anyone do anything you want, why make grand schemes or plan to take over the world. There is no need to amass a fortune or power, you just use other peoples. He wants to be under the radar, just an urban myth. It probably makes life interesting as he is living it one day at a time. It was when Jessica entered the picture that view somewhat changed and only when she left him. He experienced for the first time in his life the mantra "you don't know what you have until you lose it".

Edited by tanita
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So, I'm not sure if these were intentional Doctor references but Jessica to Kilgrave "You're not Ten anymore" and also him telling the cooks not to "Blink" until Jessica gets back! I don't think it's a coincidence.

 

I am loving this show by the way (and back on actual topic) this was the last episode we watched last night before I finally had to go to bed. It was 2am and I was really sad I couldn't stay up longer. Starting up the marathon again in a bit. I just can't wait to see what happens next! 

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Killgrave is a compelling villain because he is a very human one.  His motives aren't to take over the world or to rebuild "enter city here" by any means necessary they are much more personal.     I like the glimpse we got of his backstory.  This is a man who doesn't know what true love looks like.  The closest he has come is Jessica who has free will around him.  

 

Actually, it makes sense. When you can literary make anyone do anything you want, why make grand schemes or plan to take over the world. There is no need to amass a fortune or power, you just use other peoples.

 

What would you do if you could get anything just by asking for it?  He doesn't have to get a job when he can just walk up to someone on the street and tell them to hand him his wallet.  He needs some cash..  I would try to stay under the radar too.    I liked that Jessica is thinking about turning his abilities for good but since Killgrave is a psychopath who has no interest in helping people that may be easier said then done.  

 

Hograth's divorce plot may be a B story but it is a fun one especially since her wife is starting to fight back.  

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Jeez, this show stresses me out. I appreciate Kilgrave's backstory, and that even a horrible origin doesn't make him very sympathetic. As Jake Peralta would say, cool motive, still murder. 

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What i like about it, is that they aren't asking us to feel sympathy, but just to understand. This is how he was created and this creation had no limits, no one to control him, so his childlike petulant behavior translated into adulthood because who is going to say no to him, and those who do, end up doing what he wants and/or die.

 

I found it fascinating and I want to believe it was genuine when he said that he never knows if anything people do is because he asks them or because they want to. (frankly I think it's part truth and part his manipulation to lessen the perception that he, you know, rapes his victims, literary and figuratively). He can't turn off the compulsion, which is why Jessica is so important to him.His first chance at an honest and truthful reaction from someone. The only problem is that he has been so warped by his power and his actions that he can't take her rejection and he just keeps pushing and because he has no scruples we get murder and mayhem left and right.

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Really enjoyed this episode.

 

Tennant plays such a compelling villain. I don't feel sympathy for him. He is a monster but I can see how he became the monster. It is horrible idea that you can never know if peoples' actions are genuine or because they have been compelled. However, he doesn't seem to have really tried to make an effort to not compel people till Jessica. Even as he is trying to win over Jessica, he set up the neighbor to get blown up along with Simpson.

 

Of course, I wouldn't mind if Simpson did die. I am not really liking the character so far. I was okay with him when he first appeared as the remorseful cop but now the comparison in an earlier thread to him and Captain America is apt. He is a Captain America type character but for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on it just doesn't work for him.

 

The divorce plotline is a nice side plot. I do wonder what Hogarth is going to do to get her way. Just know she is going to cross some major line to win.

 

Liked Jessica saying that she ofter asks what would Trish do but in the case of Kilgrave she went with what would Jessica do. Can't wait to see where this leads.

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Quite a whirl, that was. I don't think I'll miss Simpson, if he is indeed dead. That last shot was so dark I wasn't sure.

 

All the main characters on this show think they alone know what's best and keep haring off on personal crusades. Trish, Jessica and Simpson tried teamwork on the Kilgrave kidnapping but that didn't pan out so they went lone wolf again and are working at cross purposes, which is exasperating for me as a viewer.

 

It was interesting to see how K works and how easily he was able to defuse the hostage situation. He's got his patter down: Let me in. Do this. Do that. Don't remember. I wouldn't have minded another ep devoted to the at-home personal interactions between Jessica and Kilgrave with more backstories and an exploration of the possibilities of doing good, but I guess not.

 

Random, but I've changed Kilgrave's name in my head to Kilroy. Because he was here.

Edited by lordonia
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I know. He basically made Jessica want to have sex with him, and then used as his excuse, "but you wanted to.." He doesn't get the concept that forcing somebody to want something isn't the same as them wanting to do it on their own. They're are smiling and "happy" as they they do his bidding, so what's the problem? It is fascinating.

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Most of the scenes in the house (especially at the start of the episode) made me feel so uncomfortable. I take that as a good thing, though, because I'm sure that was the intent. It was like some twisted version of Beauty & the Beast. Strangely, I felt kind of sympathetic towards Kilgrave. He actually was trying in his own messed-up way, but he has absolutely no concept of right or wrong.

 

I'd like to better understand how his power works, since it seems he has difficulty making requests without also compelling people. Or maybe he's used it so much that he has to really concentrate to turn it off. And how does it change a person to never be told no? Or not to be able to tell the difference between consent and obedience?

 

Anyone remember the show "The Pretender"? Those videos of little Kilgrave looked like they were straight out of The Centre.

 

And once again, I was not expecting the ending. The bomb wasn't terribly unexpected, but I didn't need to see blown-up nosy neighbor.

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I'd like to better understand how his power works, since it seems he has difficulty making requests without also compelling people. Or maybe he's used it so much that he has to really concentrate to turn it off. 

 

I don't think he can turn his power on or off at all, but I do think that with some behavior modifications he could mitigate their effects..  Kilgrave's problem appears to be that his selfish and arrogant personality make him more inclined to makes demands of people than he is to make requests.  It seems almost a matter of manners and language as it is anything else. He's just not used to speaking to other people with kindness and respect.   There are lots of people in this world who are just as demanding as he is, their words just don't hold sway with people who hear them. A more considerate and conscientious speaker probably wouldn't thoughtlessly control people the way Kilgrave does, and might be able to live a more normal life in spite of their powers just like Jessica and Luke do.

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Jessica and Kilgrave having adventures together would have been an awesomely twisted Doctor Who.

 

Jess definitely has guilt beyond survivor's for what happened to her family.

 

So is Simpson dead? I know the Jess/Trish shippers will be happy.

Edited by VCRTracking
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I thought this episode was too drawn out and too far afield of the story proper.    I also have a problem taking David Tennant seriously.   In this role, he reminds me of Griffin Dunne doing a heavy British accent.    This episode made Kilgrave far less menacing, almost tedious.    Coming off what I'm sure is going to be the emotional apex of this series -- Jessica revealing to Luke that she killed Reva -- this episode was a distraction and a colossal bore.

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I figured the nosy neighbor was coming at Simpson with the bomb only a few seconds before the reveal, but you'd think a special ops guy would be quicker on the uptake than me. Even I would have started running before I actually saw the bomb in the bag. Tsk tsk.

 

Simpson can be off-putting because he can get all "I know best what to do" at times, but aw, I liked that he can also accept maybe he doesn't have all the answers when someone tells him "no, actually, you don't know best." I hope he's not dead.

 

Oh wow, that scene with Kilgrave trying on being a hero was super amusing. And I was very intrigued by the idea of using him for good. Just think, applied the right way, you could use him to achieve world peace! Well, maybe for just 12 hours. But it would still be something.

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This TV show and this episode in particular reminds me of my all time favorite tv show - Profiler. An FBI profiler being stalked by a viscous serial killer called Jack of all Trades (who kills her husband and a lot of other people she knows) and their cat and mouse game ends with them finally coming face to face and him trying to convince her they are made for one another and trying to make her like himself. It doesn't end well for Jack, just like Kilgrave.

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That scene where Jessica yelled at Kilgrave, repeatedly, that he'd raped her was so well-acted and well-written and frustrating. The guy was just baffled that she'd even think of their sex that way; he thought he was always good to her. I can't imagine having something like that happen and then have the villain not only not show any remorse, but reject the very idea that anyone could see what he'd done as being wrong. He's just so willfully ignorant, so eager to blame everything on his upbringing, to claim that he can't understand right from wrong. So frustrating. He's the best villain I've seen on any show in a long time. I hate him, but I'm fascinated by him.

That was...a really intense scene to watch. This is what it's like when you try to explain to people that sexual assault isn't always someone jumping out of the bushes. Usually it's someone you know, and you're put into a position where your consent wasn't truly asked for; your ability to say "no" was taken away from you. And a lot of people don't believe in assault unless it's by a stranger and weapons are involved.

 

Sometimes the people who inflict this kind of pain on others are often completely unaware of their actions and don't view themselves as rapists. They use excuses like Kilgrave did. "Well, you didn't say yes, but you didn't say no", "I could tell she wanted it", "Look at what she was wearing", etc. He's so fucking creepy because he's so human. Barring mind control, a lot of men have this exact mentality because they're taught from birth that they can just help themselves to everything in the world, including women's bodies. The world is a bazaar, whether someone really wants to part with what they're after or not.

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Fuck. Just when you think this show can't shock you again, it gives you nosy neighbour intestines on the lawn. I don't think Simpson is dead, but if he was I'd only be sad because Trish would be. He's a bit of a boor, quite honestly. I think it's deliberate, and I think he has valid reasons for behaving as he does, but I don't want to hear him continually tell Trish to stay out of trouble.

 

This was an absorbing episode, with the insight it gave us into both Jessica and Kilgrave. Turns out Jessica's trauma and self-loathing started years before Kilgrave came along. We knew her family died, but I don't think a brother was mentioned until now, and it turns out that it was Jessica's behaviour that distracted her father, leading to the crash. Brutal. And now she has Kilgrave digging all that up again, with his sick game of house.

 

Kilgrave himself, what a complex basket of crazy he is. Sure, he was abused as a child, never taught how to function properly, so he has no sense of right and wrong. But he's still a monster. All the while he's talking about the rush of being thanked for saving people (not actually the rush of saving them, just the adulation), he's torturing his staff and planning to blow Will up along with the neighbour. You can't harness that, not even when he's obsessed with you. He will always be a malevolent entity. His first instinct will always be to tell the guy to turn the shotgun on himself. He can't help it.

 

The idea of him not really knowing whether people are consenting or not is interesting. He can't tell the difference between 'you wanted to' and 'you wanted to because I made you want it'. It brings up the issue of how he controls his powers. I'd have to really study all his dialogue, but I get the feeling that he avoids making any declarative statements to people if he's not using his powers. Perhaps he can't control it well at all. But even if he could, the temptation will always be too strong. 

 

But the fact he hates the word 'rape' was interesting. He does have a conscience, at least insofar as his image of himself is concerned. He tells himself that the people he controls kill themselves, he tells himself that the women consent, he tells himself that none of it is his doing.

 

I really liked the juxtaposition between What Would Trish Do? and What Would Jessica Do? Of course Trish would sacrifice herself for the greater good, being the tragic hero who tries to control Kilgrave. She's a genuinely good, loving, noble person who does dream of riding in on a white steed and saving the day. Jessica, on the other hand, is more pragmatic, but more prone to act rashly. 

Edited by Danny Franks
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But the fact he hates the word 'rape' was interesting. He does have a conscience, at least insofar as his image of himself is concerned. He tells himself that the people he controls kill themselves, he tells himself that the women consent, he tells himself that none of it is his doing.

I think this links in to the study that was done where a group of men were interviewed, and as long as the word "rape" was never used, they would describe a situation that was them committing rape. Kilgrave's self image doesn't allow that word to apply to him, no matter how justified it is.

 

 

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There's something very "over compensating" about it when Simpson's acting like a boor. Kilgrave freaks him the hell out and makes him feel powerless, so he's putting on this bravado act to try and regain some control. Kind of figures that it would lead to disaster.

 

But hey, he pretty much repaid Jessica for saving his life by taking out that security guy who was totally going to shoot her.

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Going in, I was a bit worried about this episode.  Not because of the playing house aspect, because I knew they would make it perfectly creepy and Krysten Ritter and David Tennant would sell it, but I figured this was the most likely place to get his backstory, so I was worried that there was a chance he would suddenly get a sob story and his actions would be "excused" on some levels.  Thankfully, I thought the episode avoided it.  Sure, his parents were horrible to him, but he is still a psychopath, who doesn't even seem to think he's done anything wrong, and I felt like the show and Jessica didn't pity him in anyway.  Even after the video clip, Jessica didn't look like she was thinking "Oh, that poor guy!", but instead more along the lines of "Oh, fuck me!  How to get myself out of this?!" about it.

 

Even though the whole "playing hero" thing, while fun, went out of its way to show that Kilgrave didn't really learn anything from it.  Instead, he seem to be treating it like basic match, where all he has to do his save enough lives to even out all the ones he took.  I mean, how do you get through someone who thinks like that?

 

And then there was the big moment when Jessica just lays it all out and says that he flat-out raped her, and he denies it.  That was so disturbing, because there really are some guys who act that way.  They find an excuse of some kind and claim it wasn't rape, and truly think they didn't do anything wrong.  Kilgrave is basically that guy. Only he has mind-controlling powers. In a lot of ways, I find that way more scarier then aliens, Nazi experiments, Mickey Rourke with whips, or a god with jealously issues.

 

Glad Jessica at least was able to talk to Trish and figure out what she would do.  Their relationship is one of the best things about this show, and Trish really is one of the most loyal people in Jessica's life.  Which means I so hope she doesn't cross paths with Kilgrave.

 

Still unsure what is exactly going on with Hograth's divorce.  I wonder if Kilgrave finding her text is leading somewhere.

 

I hope they don't try to recon what happen to Jessica's family, because I kind of like that it seems it was basically a freak accident because younger Jessica was acting bratty, and her dad made the mistake of turning around at the wrong time.  I hope they avoid some kind of stupid "It was all part of an evil guy's plan!" thing.

 

Talk about an explosive ending!  I won't commit on Simpson's fate until I see the next episode, I guess.

Edited by thuganomics85
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Really terrific episode and some great work by Ritter and Tennant.  Those two work well together.  I always feel uneasy when they're around because you know the type of man that Kilgrave is and they don't shy away from it here.  What his parents did to him doesn't excuse his actions.  I did like Jessica making him playing the hero though but glad she wasn't crazy enough to think it would stick.  The scene with the neighbor was fascinating.  I also laughed at Kilgrave's responses to Hogarth's text messages.

 

"You never paid a god damn tax in your life."  You can always find a couple of lines that are gold on this show.

 

The episode ended with a bang but I have to call bullshit on Simpson actually looking at that bag the neighbor handed to him.  He's ex-special forces, on top of being a cop so he no doubt dealt with those situations many times.  As soon as he heard an old woman mention Kilgrave (not to mention seeing her carrying that package) he should have backed off immediately.  That moment was a bad bit of writing.

 

I completely get Simpson wanting to take Kilgrave out and he's right on that one.  But I understand Jessica wanting to prove Hope innocence.  That's why I understand what Jessica's doing, even though keeping Kilgrave alive is a mistake.

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The episode ended with a bang but I have to call bullshit on Simpson actually looking at that bag the neighbor handed to him.  He's ex-special forces, on top of being a cop so he no doubt dealt with those situations many times.  As soon as he heard an old woman mention Kilgrave (not to mention seeing her carrying that package) he should have backed off immediately.  That moment was a bad bit of writing.

 

Maybe Simpson was still in shock that Jessica can fly? Other than that I got nothing. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Jessica made the absolutely right call. What he was doing was pure emotional manipulation. Even if she stayed with him to keep him on the right path, all it would take would be one argument between them and he would retaliate by hurting someone. How do you deal with a person who can't handle denial and rejection and whose immediate response is abuse.

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Yeah, I chuckled at the guys' "Did she just fly?" "Whoa!" reaction. Yep, it's as good an explanation as any for why they were so slow to realize that lady has a bomb. Especially when Simpson is the one who put a bomb into the equation in the first place.

 

I wouldn't want to try and kill Kilgrave by explosion, anyway. It's not certain enough for my liking. Last thing you want is to have him somehow escape when you think you blew him up.

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I used Jessica flying away as an excuse to why the special ops trained guys fell for the bomb in a bag thing. Their reactions were great though. "Did she just fly?" "That's impossible"

 

Simpson knew Jess is super strong and that's easier to buy then she can fly without wings or a metal suit. None of the Avengers can do that. 

 

I also liked that it looked like Jessica was about to run down the driveway and take off like a plane. You can tell she doesn't fly that often, which makes sense because how could she practice that without drawing attention to herself. 

Edited by Sakura12
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I am completely unspoiled, but I had an awful thought regarding the Hogarth divorce...will chekhovs fetus be coming into play?

Episode 7 and this one make me really hope Tennant (and Ritter) get nominated for Emmys. Tennant does an amazing job when Kilgrave gets frustrated. He really captures the essence of creepy in the character.

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God,  the cook and that poor woman...

 

I'm glad we got some answers about Kilgrave's past.  It was interesting.  There was a show called Alphas where  one of the characters,  Nina, had similar powers; she had been using them in order to get free stuff and having a life full  of luxuries, but she wasn't a psychopath so she  didn't go around hurting  people. Iirc, she couldn't tell either if people were acting  on  their own  volition or just following her commands. 

 

What happened to Kilgrave doesn't justify what he is and what he  does, it just explains it. 

 

I'm not surprised by  his  lack  of remorse or his aversion to the word "rape". Most people like to think they're the  good ones even when they're doing the worst things. Look at Trish's mom. She didn't do  anything wrong either!

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I'm glad we got some answers about Kilgrave's past.  It was interesting.  There was a show called Alphas where  one of the characters,  Nina, had similar powers; she had been using them in order to get free stuff and having a life full  of luxuries, but she wasn't a psychopath so she  didn't go around hurting  people. Iirc, she couldn't tell either if people were acting  on  their own  volition or just following her commands. 

 

OT: Yay, someone else who's watched Alphas is posting here too! Kilgrave's power did remind me of Nina's but she did use her powers for evil once (when she hooked up with her ex boyfriend). She definitely wasn't as psychopathic as Kilgrave though and she showed genuine remorse afterwards.

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Another Alphas watcher here, and yes, this did remind me a bit of Nina.

 

I think this episode really expanded on Kilgrave's big Freudian slip in the police station, to the effect the Jessica is the first "thing, no, sorry, person" who ever walked away from him.  He is used to people as tools, not human beings with rights and free will.  He does have the emotional development of a child - all ego, no empathy.  I like that they have completely committed to his belief that he's not the villain.  He can't be reasoned with because he doesn't understand the accusations leveled against him.  He is terrifying without being in any way physically intimidating.

 

As fascinating as the interaction between the two of them was, I did cheer a bit when Jessica stabbed him with the hypodermic needle.

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Actually, it makes sense. When you can literary make anyone do anything you want, why make grand schemes or plan to take over the world. There is no need to amass a fortune or power, you just use other peoples. He wants to be under the radar, just an urban myth. It probably makes life interesting as he is living it one day at a time. It was when Jessica entered the picture that view somewhat changed and only when she left him. He experienced for the first time in his life the mantra "you don't know what you have until you lose it".

Kilgrave is never going to try to take over the world. Why? I'm pretty sure he's never even held a job. Whatever he wants, he gets. Travel? Fine dining? Sex? A new house? He just asks. It's been that way since he was a kid. So he has to be a profoundly lazy person. From his point of view, he already runs the world.

 

One thing I like about this show is how much the everday stuff, the superpower stuff and the larger thematic issues all line up and support each other. Nothing seems extraneous or tacked on, it all fits together. So Kilgrave essentially has white male privilege as his superpower. His sense of entitlement is so complete he doesn't really see himself as the bad guy.

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Loved this episode! Definitely one of the more surprising (and satisfying) story directions for me in the show. So many mixed emotions for Kilgrave and Jessica were explored in this episode. These two are certainly some of the more interesting characters to me right now in the live-action Marvel world.

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I really liked the juxtaposition between What Would Trish Do? and What Would Jessica Do? Of course Trish would sacrifice herself for the greater good, being the tragic hero who tries to control Kilgrave. She's a genuinely good, loving, noble person who does dream of riding in on a white steed and saving the day. Jessica, on the other hand, is more pragmatic, but more prone to act rashly.

I actually think the show validates Jessica's approach with that gory last scene. Turning Kilgrave into a hero isn't viable if he'll just turn malevolent whenever he gets two seconds alone. Also he goes after Simpson whiile he's supposedly trying to win Jessica back and after her repeated pleas for him to stop killing the people around her.

 

I thought this episode was really good. Having Jessica be hit with all her memories of her family as well as having to deal with Kilgrave was pretty intense.

 

Anyone remember the show "The Pretender"? Those videos of little Kilgrave looked like they were straight out of The Centre.

Yeah I got into that show way after the fact on DVD. It went off the rails though. I think the Centre would have been more interesting if they had been a bit less eeevil and claimed to have taken Jarod for the greater good.

 

The episode ended with a bang but I have to call bullshit on Simpson actually looking at that bag the neighbor handed to him.

I feel like Simpson would have taken a kill shot with a sniper rifle at the start of this episode but they wanted to keep Kilgrave around longer so Simpson plants a bomb that isn't sure to actually kill his target and then lurks around to no good effect.

 

I hope they don't try to recon what happen to Jessica's family, because I kind of like that it seems it was basically a freak accident because younger Jessica was acting bratty, and her dad made the mistake of turning around at the wrong time.  I hope they avoid some kind of stupid "It was all part of an evil guy's plan!" thing.

Definitely. Too many sci-fi and action adventure shows make the mistake of trying to tie everything together when it isn't plausible or realistic.

Edited by Beatriceblake

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Just watched this:

1. He's either stupid or lying when he says he never knows if people really like him or are just following his compulsion. He's demonstrated plenty of times that he can force people to tell the truth. So he could just ask them to tell him honestly if they're happy being around him or if they're trapped.

2. That woman delivered the bomb after Kilgrave was unconscious. Wasn't that supposed to immediately break his spell? It did with Malcolm.

3. I agree with Simpson that the right thing to do is to kill Kilgrave. Jessica keeps saving him from Simpson, so now isn't she on some level responsible for all future harm Kilgrave will do?

Edited by LeGrandElephant
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1. Kilgrave still can't necessarily be sure that the person's answer to any "tell the truth" question might be influenced by a desire to please him. Also, it could be that he is lying to himself, as opposed to just lying to Jessica.

 

2. In one of the earlier episodes, Jessica mentioned that Kilgrave's control still holds when he is asleep and such. He didn't want surgical-grade anesthesia, and she deduced from that that would knock out his powers. So it could be that what she used to knock him out didn't rise to surgical-grade anesthesia. (Remember, she had a tough time getting it, and she ended up using one dose to knock Trish out). Or it could be the level of control he has even while out on surgical-grade anesthesia persists for some people/commands and not for others.

 

3. Different moral frameworks might have her responsible for the harm Kilgrave did from when she failed to make sure he was dead, to never. I tend to lean on the only person responsible for the harm Kilgrave does is Kilgrave.

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I finished episode 7 right before I went to bed so I was really tempted to stay up an extra hour to watch episode 8 because SHIT JUST GOT REAL.

I wasn't sure that going to Kilgrave was the smartest/safest option, but I get why Jessica felt she had to try to get a confession out of him so she could keep Hope from going to prison. I kept waiting for him to find the phone she had hidden in the small of her back. If that's where you're going to hide a recording device, at least wear a longer shirt, Jessica!

It was interesting to see such different viewpoints of the same situation. Kilgrave thinks that he loves Jessica and that he has done things out of love (like obsessively going through the realtor's pictures to recreate her childhood home, which, by the way, I call bullshit on because 20 year old photos would not be high resolution enough to see fine details like that if they were just in the background). He seemed genuinely shocked that Jessica blames her drinking on him or that she sees their sexual relationship as rape. I don't know how much of his reaction was him being in denial versus him actually believing that he treated her well.

The videos on the yellow flash drive were horrifying. I thought that Jessica would soften and have some sympathy for Kilgrave, so I was happily surprised that she dosed him at the end of the episode. I know I'm not supposed to take Kilgrave's side (and I don't, for the most part) but between seeing the hell his parents put him through, hearing him tell Jessica how hard it has been to have to watch his words lest he have another "screw you" situation on his hands, and seeing how excited he was that Jessica actually came back, I do feel the tiniest drop of pity for him. I still think he's gross and creepy, but he gets one millionth of a percent of understanding from me.

When he said that he never knows if people are just doing what he tells them, it made me think of people who are famous and are never 100% sure if the people in their lives are just starfuckers who want to be around someone famous or if they're actually interested in who they are.

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