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S01.E07: AKA Top Shelf Perverts

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Wait, what happened to the cop? He lies to Trish about seeing Kilgrave, waits for Kilgrave to leave the house, and then what? Is he hiding in the house? I'm not 100% on the Supermax plan either. Can't Kilgrave control a guard by intercepting one outside the prison? Is the writing getting sloppy or am I binge-drunk?

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Wait, what happened to the cop? He lies to Trish about seeing Kilgrave, waits for Kilgrave to leave the house, and then what? Is he hiding in the house? I'm not 100% on the Supermax plan either. Can't Kilgrave control a guard by intercepting one outside the prison? Is the writing getting sloppy or am I binge-drunk?

 

He's still staking out the house from his car down the street.  We caught a glimpse of him as Jessica arrived, so he knows that Jessica has gone to meet Killgrave.

 

As for the super-max plan, Jessica said that she thought a Super Max would keep her safe because it had so many levels of security that no single guard to get her out of the facility.  She said he'd need to brainwash many, many guards in multiple areas of the prison to make that happen, and would likely need to enter the prison himself (not as a prisoner, but with a brainwashed guard) to gain control of all of the necessary people since he can't take over anyone's mind through a proxy.  And she didn't think he'd be willing to do that because of all of the surveillance.  I don't know enough about Super Maxes to know if that makes sense, but that was her reasoning.

Edited by xqueenfrostine
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Awww-creepy/sad neighbor guy! All the little side characters are such a nice touch-the sister was heart breaking.

 

SuperMax was a truly bad plan.

 

I think Simpson lied because he (rightly) does not want Trish anywhere near Kilgrave.  

 

Tennant is killing it in this role. The police station scene was riveting. 

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"Oh, I'm new to love, but I do know what it looks like. I do watch television."

 

Our villain ladies and gents.

 

Tennant really is KILLING IT in this role.

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I'm underwhelmed by the villain because I'm not that emotionally invested in the lead. I'm attached to Hope after seeing her kill her parents, but we didn't see Jessica and Hope's tortured captivity, only their escape. Weren't they sex slaves for months as well as minions?

Edited by numbnut
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I wouldn't want to see the Jessica in the clutches of Kilgrave either. It isn't strictly necessary and for the record I am very invested in Jessica. Plus Kilgrave has to come off as charming and to see explicit sex scenes with him and Hope and him and Hessicaz would cancel out the charming nature of his personality and the character wouldn't work.

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Do we really need to see that?  Honestly, one of my favorite things about Jessica Jones is that it trusts its audience enough to not use explicit rape scenes to try to justify the trauma Jessica and Hope are feeling in the aftermath.  Too often in TV and movies, the emphasis is placed on the actual rape than it is on the actual victims.  Not here, and I find that both brave and admirable.    It forces the audience to take the women at their word when they say they were raped.

 

It doesn't need to be explicit or gratuitous; showing the aftermath of the crime or just the frustrating need to escape captivity is enough to pack an emotional punch. I know well-written films with rape storylines focus on the victim, and I avoid watching crap. I believe what happened to Jessica storywise (I don't think viewers are meant to question if she's lying about being raped) but I'm not invested in the character. I generally prefer a cinematic approach in lieu of relying on exposition, which can often come off as "written."

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Man. Tennant is sooo good. Kilgrave is a character that in the comics (like so many other characters over the years) has been written all kinds of ways- from nefarious to creepy to campy- so it is really cool to see what the writers, directors, producers, and Tennant are doing with the role.

 

Why is it that the Netflix shows can get the villains so well, and the movie franchises still struggle to make any memorable villains outside of Loki? Is it because they are limited in terms of the time given to spend on villains (2 hours vs. 13 or so) as well as the exorbitant costs and time involved? Is it because the "big name" actors in the primary heroic roles take up so much time and expense? I'm sure all number of reasons, but whatever it is, I wish they'd take a cue from DD and JJ, and start to actually invest in their villains, because no matter how much you put into your heroes, the ultimate measuring stick of their heroism is directly proportional to the villains they face off against, and the more personal their connection to them, the more drama you are going to raise and the more satisfaction the audience will derive once they are defeated.

 

(Side note: this is why I think they need to introduce more villains in the individual film franchises, and have a Masters of Evil team-up in the big Avengers picture; so that it raises the stakes of that movie. End side note.)

 

I'm still not entirely sure how much I like the Jessica Jones show; it's not as interesting to me as Daredevil was- but Tennant's Kilgrave is what really draws me in.

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I loved this one, primarily due to lots of Kilgrave creepiness. The scene in the police station was great, and I wish I hadn't already seen half of it from one of the pre-release videos. Does he always wear the same purple suit? I can't tell--the lighting can change so drastically between scenes. I didn't think so, but the black shirt was definitely the same one as in the poker scene from the previous episode. Also, I don't think I've seen David Tennant in anything before (except possibly interviews) where he wasn't wearing a suit. 

 

My only drawback is the use of that drawn-out "well" because I associate that with the Doctor. It's only happened like twice so far, but it does take me out of the scene for a moment. 

 

I also like that we got a bit more insight into Kilgrave's motive--it's something a bit deeper than just psycho killer. I have a better understanding of why he's so obsessed with Jessica, and I get the motivation behind his "gifts" to her.

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It doesn't need to be explicit or gratuitous; showing the aftermath of the crime or just the frustrating need to escape captivity is enough to pack an emotional punch. I know well-written films with rape storylines focus on the victim, and I avoid watching crap. I believe what happened to Jessica storywise (I don't think viewers are meant to question if she's lying about being raped) but I'm not invested in the character. I generally prefer a cinematic approach in lieu of relying on exposition, which can often come off as "written."

 

But they haven't relied on exposition.  Both Jessica and Hope said very little about being raped or even about the extent of their abuse.  We see, not hear about, the evidence of their assault through the way they cope with their trauma.  We didn't need to see the rape, to know it happened.  We don't even hear the word rape from either character until 6 episodes in when Hope reveals she's pregnant.  Jessica doesn't use the word rape for herself, or even mention any sexual contact between them

until she confronts Kilgrave about it in her childhood home in episode 8.

.  But I think everyone knew what had happened before it was said out loud.  That's not exposition, that's letting the audience fill in the blanks based on what they see on screen.  The route they took might be more subtle than you'd like, but rape not necessarily a plot point that is best served "cinematicaly."  A lot of times the cinematic ends up more exploitative than respectful.

 

In any case, we *do* see scenes of Kilgrave's abuse.  We we first saw Hope she was lying in her own urine and still she kicked and screamed to remain that way.  And then she shot her parents.  With Jessica, we saw her kill Reva on Kilgrave's order, along with other scenes where she was dressed in clothes he obviously picked out for her and living life as he wanted her to looking enslaved as she did it.  Did we really need to see them raped too for their abuse to feel vital?  Even without seeing uit, it's all too easy to picture Kilgrave as the worst abusive, controlling ex you've ever known time 10.  The glimpses we catch of how he's treated others in his path are meant to make us imagine how much worse it must have been to have been his live-in companion.  

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But they haven't relied on exposition.  Both Jessica and Hope said very little about being raped or even about the extent of their abuse.  We see, not hear about, the evidence of their assault through the way they cope with their trauma.  We didn't need to see the rape, to know it happened.  We don't even hear the word rape from either character until 6 episodes in when Hope reveals she's pregnant.  Jessica doesn't use the word rape for herself, or even mention any sexual contact between them. But I think everyone knew what had happened before it was said out loud.  That's not exposition, that's letting the audience fill in the blanks based on what they see on screen.  The route they took might be more subtle than you'd like, but rape not necessarily a plot point that is best served "cinematicaly."  A lot of times the cinematic ends up more exploitative than respectful.

 

In any case, we *do* see scenes of Kilgrave's abuse.  We we first saw Hope she was lying in her own urine and still she kicked and screamed to remain that way.  And then she shot her parents.  With Jessica, we saw her kill Reva on Kilgrave's order, along with other scenes where she was dressed in clothes he obviously picked out for her and living life as he wanted her to looking enslaved as she did it.  Did we really need to see them raped too for their abuse to feel vital?  Even without seeing uit, it's all too easy to picture Kilgrave as the worst abusive, controlling ex you've ever known time 10.  The glimpses we catch of how he's treated others in his path are meant to make us imagine how much worse it must have been to have been his live-in companion.

 

The word "rape" doesn't need to be used. The exposition is "he made me do things" and similar phrases. I was more invested in Hope because the cinematic approach to Hope's experience was more effectively conveyed than Jessica's IMO -- we see Hope's desperation while in captivity (although not with her captor) and her anguish after killing her parents. And they didn't show the murders, just the aftermath. We don't see the rapes in True Detective S1 but the crime is powerfully conveyed in a cinematic way when we see Hart reacting to the videotape of a rape and murder. I like subtlety and agree that expo can be effective when strongly written and the actor has a skill for being nuanced (the Indianapolis monologue in Jaws is a classic example). The handling of the expo in JJ simply didn't make the cut for me, especially since the sex slave aspect is a key factor in the narrative.

Edited by numbnut
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The episode was a complete illogical mess. I don't care about Jessica at all, and I'd rather watch the show about Trish, Hope, Malcolm and co, than about her.

 

But every time Kilgrave is on screen, it's delightful and hilarious. The scene at the station was the best this show done with him so far, I think he saved this episode from being unwatchable to me.

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I do not need to see the rape, too many shows just throw in rape scenes to be shocking. I can see how much trauma Killgrave put Jessica and Hope through by their personalities and their actions. It makes it more horrifying for me to just see how much of what happened changed them. Jessica and Hope were both broken and destroyed by that man. What he did is never going to go away and it's made worse by no one really understanding what happened and therefore not really believing them. They'll say they know, that they believe them, but they don't. Not really. Even the group of other survivors that met him for a few minutes or hours. Hope and Jessica were his slaves for months, forced to be with him 24/7, forced into a sexual relationship with him and isolated from everyone that cares about them. He turned them into killers. It's made even more horrifying knowing that they were in there the whole time powerless to stop whatever he was making them do. 

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That was Rebecca De Mornay playing Trish's mom! Totally unrecognizable.

 

Holy crap! Thank you! IMDB doesn't have all the actors listed so I was stumped on a few I recognized but couldn't name.

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It depends on whether you need to see the trauma for it to be real to you.  This isn't really about the trauma itself but the after-effects of it.  Hope gets pregnant and Jessica is so guilt ridden by the things she did that she stalks the husband of the woman she killed.   We don't need to see every moment between Kilgrave and Jessica for sympathy sake.  

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The word "rape" doesn't need to be used. The exposition is "he made me do things" and similar phrases. I was more invested in Hope because the cinematic approach to Hope's experience was more effectively conveyed than Jessica's IMO -- we see Hope's desperation while in captivity (although not with her captor) and her anguish after killing her parents. And they didn't show the murders, just the aftermath. We don't see the rapes in True Detective S1 but the crime is powerfully conveyed in a cinematic way when we see Hart reacting to the videotape of a rape and murder. I like subtlety and agree that expo can be effective when strongly written and the actor has a skill for being nuanced (the Indianapolis monologue in Jaws is a classic example). The handling of the expo in JJ simply didn't make the cut for me, especially since the sex slave aspect is a key factor in the narrative.

We saw Jessica killing a woman while under Kilgrave's control. I think that that is about as explicit a thing as needs be shown in order to understand Jessica's mindset.

 The SuperMax idea was dumb, but I'm OK with that. This is a woman who has been scared and scarred from the moment we first met her. I don't expect that she'll come up with a foolproof plan on her own, at least not without trial and error. (Reminded me of the prison on Walking Dead; why would you set yourself and your fellow survivors inside a place that is meant as a trap?)

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The SuperMax idea was dumb, but I'm OK with that.

 

You're more forgiving than me! It was so idiotic and Jessica was so hellbound on carrying it out despite everyone and everything that I wanted nothing more than to give her a good kick on the shins. Nobody gets arrested and sent to Federal prison the same day. The stupidity, it burns.

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The stupidity of the idea was the whole point. She just came home to find her annoying neighbours's rather nauseatingly sweet brother murdered. Having recently confessed to Luke about another shitty murder she feels guilty about, she reached breaking point. It was a bad plan but she was trying to soothe some of her hurt and in the end it didn't work.

 

Is anyone not going to mention the Daredevil cop, Foggy's friend, with the grandmother who likes cigars?

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What it obvious to me from this sort of plot that the writers realized they still had almost half a season to go and they have nothing to fill it with. Hence we have another filler of the main character being a stupid jerk to everyone, and having no consequences to their actions because her PTSD and self-destructive tendencies are  more important than other people's PTSDs.

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I actually liked the supermax idea because it came out of true fear and desperation. That was the whole point of Kilgrave leaving a body for her to find. It was another way of him controlling her. Making her do something desperate and stupid was a power play for control....and it worked.

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Holy shit the police station scene was incredible.

 

RIP Reuben. I actually felt sorry for the sister at the end.

 

On a lighter note it's a good to see Malcolm looking better.

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I was happy to see Brett Mahoney because I thought for sure he told Matt & Foggy about the freaky case of the crazy lady who brought in a severed head. I was expecting to see the avocados at law in the police station when Jessica stormed out of the interrogation room angry at apparently being sprung by some lawyer. Color me surprised that it was Kilgrave instead. And he was there to confess his eternal love for her? What the everloving hell?

 

Yep, I agree Simpson is not telling Trish about seeing Kilgrave to protect her. Is he going to try to handle seeing Jessica with Kilgrave on his own? This can't end well for him.

 

Also, Malcolm was tying Reuben's dead body to those concrete blocks with some pretty crappy looking rope. That rope looks like it will quickly rot away in the water.

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Count me in among those who are more than happy to not see a rape scene occur. You can see what Kilgrave did based on what we have seen and the damage he has left behind... and the aftermath is what is often forgotten in movies and tv shows. I think showing the aftermath, the characters trying to recover, is more important than seeing the actual rapes.

 

Hope wound up pregnant and started paying inmates to beat it out of her. Is that going to be somehow less harrowing than seeing her forced into enjoying sex with Kilgrave?

 

Jessica was clearly not a happy-go-lucky bubbly woman before Kilgrave came along but there were less hard edges to her. But as she is now... is she a particularly likable character? No. But, to me, she's a very rootable one. And she's probably the best example of a true anti-hero that I've seen in a long, long time. She crosses the line, she's absolutely driven by her fears and regrets but she does actually 'give a damn' which is why she's crossing these lines.

 

Kilgrave's confession of love in the police station really worked, too, because Jessica was absolutely horrified by all of it. Kind of shows she's not as amoral and broken as all that... to her, he is nothing more than a monster. But you kind of get the idea that she thinks that, as messed up as she is, of course he's the kind of 'man' that would profess his love to her. The good thing is, she doesn't even show a glimmer of considering to reciprocate.

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I'll have to do some rewatching and crowdsourcing to be sure, but the scene of Kilgrave and Reuben alone in Jessica's apartment is the first scene I remember in the show's whole run between two men, with no women present. It really jumped out at me.

 

Awesome reverse-Bechdel Test action in this show, if so.

 

(And of course Part 2 of the Bechdel Test is that if two women are talking with no men present they also should not be talking about a man, but yes, Kilgrave and Reuben are talking about Jessica. Heh.)

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"Manual decapitation.  You're full of surprises."

 

Tennant is absolutely killing this role and the scene in the police station was excellent.  I also have no need to see a rape scene and I think the show have conveyed what went on without having to say it.  It's unnerving every time Jessica is around Kilgrave.

 

I completely agree that Marvel TV has a much better track record overall with villains than the movies do and if it wasn't for Loki, it wouldn't even be close either.

 

I greatly enjoy the Jessica and Trish friendship as well.

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As someone who is not invested in David Tennant from other roles, I think he's giving a fairly unimaginative, workmanlike performance.   Unless simply being British is considered great acting nowadays.

 

This series is about three episodes too long. 

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My only drawback is the use of that drawn-out "well" because I associate that with the Doctor.

He does it once in the RSC production of Hamlet too and I had to giggle, but he did it at a funny spot on the play.  So, I know the feeling.

But I think Ritter is really going toe-to-toe with him.  For me she was the wildcard because I'd only seen clips of her other stuff, but color me impressed!

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After serving as mainly awkward comic relief, Reuben's death hit much harder then I expected.  Especially since there was no purpose other then for Kilgrave to just send a message to Jessica and make her feel even worse then she already does.  And then the sister pretty much pleading with Jessica to use her skills to track him down was hard to watch.  She was mainly a jerk to Jessica (understandable), but I felt for her.

 

Kilgrave at the police station might be one of my favorite scenes so far.  David Tennant was a blast in that scene.  The way he flipped between entertaining to disturbing was a sight to behold.  In a lot of ways, he could easily come off like the fun villain that some shows do (and sometimes become their own worst enemy by making them suddenly anti-heroes or worse, "redeemed"), but then they quickly go back to remembering that he is an evil, evil bastard, that has violated so many people, and left other dead, and he's just a straight-up awful human being.  Not surprised by the reveal that he thinks he "loves" Jessica.  Because he really is just a stalker with mind-control powers, and thats what makes him so scary.  That kind of motivation makes him feel more realistic compared to the, say, "taking over the world" motivation, and it's just so perfectly disturbing.

 

Jessica's Supermax plan was stupid, but not surprising for her.  Plus, maybe Arrow's just done me in when it comes to stupid plans ("I got it!  I will work with Ra's/Malcolm/Damien Dahrk!  What could possibly go wrong?!!  You've got this, Ollie!")  Plus, it led to both Malcolm and Trish meeting up (what this their first time?  Can't remember.), and it was good seeing how loyal both of them are to her.  She's lucky she has such good friends.  Trish in general, continues to be one of my favorites.  Meeting her mother and those brief flashbacks continue to make her even more intriguing.

 

I'm still wondering what does all this stuff involving Hogarth's divorce has got to do with everything.  Feels like it is on another show at times.

 

At first I thought Kilgrave somehow got to Simpson again, but I guess he's either just trying to keep Trish away from him, or maybe he even wants to go against their wishes and try to kill him.

 

Cool seeing Clemmons again.  Forgot to mention about him appearing in episode two, because Clarke Peters is always awesome.  Even when he isn't playing a nice person (Person of Interest), he is always a treat to watch (and listen too.)

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After serving as mainly awkward comic relief, Reuben's death hit much harder then I expected.  Especially since there was no purpose other then for Kilgrave to just send a message to Jessica and make her feel even worse then she already does.  

 

I actually assumed he did it out of jealousy even more than he did it to make Jessica feel bad.  Reuben did himself in when he told Kilgrave that he was in love with Jessica.  At that point he seemed more into the "woo Jessica" path than the "wound Jessica" path.

Edited by xqueenfrostine
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Alright, I didn't think I was going to say this but, thank you Kilgrave! I was so, so, so not down for a tedious 'behind bars as part of some convoluted plan to catch the bad guy' storyline. I hate that shit. Yes, it was appropriately stupid, but I just don't want even a single episode of Jessica having to deal with the crap that writers think they have to put in any prison storyline.

 

So the show pulling the bait and switch and having Kilgrave ruin Jessica's plan was a fantastic piece of television. First of all, Jessica's determined to sabotage herself, and Hogarth is washing her hands of it, then she ends up with the one cop in the world who isn't immediately convinced by a decapitated head dropped on his desk, and then Kilgrave just stops the plan dead. Because he wants to confess his love for her, in a truly twisted, sick yet hilarious scene where the monster tries to convince the heroine he has a heart. While he casually dismisses murder and blackmail and everything else he's ever done. I think that's what makes him scary. He's not like the Joker, manic and twitchy and in your face, he's very 'normal'. He does things that are horrific, but doesn't think them at all odd. He was genuinely lost for a second, before recalling what he did to Rueben.

 

The idea that he honestly wants her to choose him is laughable, because she never ever would. But it's also sad, in a way. Because with his power, has he ever had anyone make a decision of their own free will? Was he a monster to begin with, or did his powers make him that way? What also worked in that scene was Jessica's paralysing fear. She got a couple of smartass remarks off, but was holding back, and you could see how scared she was that he would either take control of her, or he'd just decide to tell the cops to all blow their brains out. She can't fight back against him, such is his power.

 

Malcolm is getting better and better. The reversal of their positions, with him dragging the drunk Jessica out of the elevator, was a sweet moment. He owes her so much, and he clearly plans on saving her, just like she saved him. And Trish was back, in a big way. First of all, Rachael Taylor is smoking hot in this role, Will is a lucky guy (even if their relationship seems to be based on less than healthy emotions), but more importantly she's perfect as this character. Her inferiority complex over letting Jessica down, her determination to make it up to her and run headlong into danger, and I loved the gag about "you and I both know you don't own a vacuum cleaner".

 

Her burning desire to be a hero, and to save people, while not having the same capabilities as Jessica or the other metahumans is an idea that's not often explored in comic books. Sure, there's Batman and other vigilante types, but they're usually presented as every bit as capable, even without powers. Usually anyone looking at metahumans with envy, thinking 'what I could do if I had that...' is a villain.

 

Trish's mother on the other hand? Terrible person. A typical stage mother who obviously wanted her daughter close by, because she was the cash cow. An awful person, who doesn't even have Kilgrave's excuse of being crazy to fall back on. A lot more backstory here, with Jessica rightly resenting her the way she feels used, and the pre-existing 'agreement' that she stays the hell away from Trish.

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The prison plan was ridiculous,  but I get how desperate she was so it worked for me anyway. 

 

Poor Ruben. For a character I didn't even like, his death was hard to see. I did feel bad for the sister too, even though she's not a nice person. 

 

Great glimpse into Trish past with her mother. What a terrible woman. 

 

The police station scene was so well done by everyone. Up until the scene cut, I was genuinely afraid he'd have them all pull the trigger. 

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Yes, Clarke Peters is who that was!  It was driving me crazy...I remember him from Person of Interest too although he has a long career of work on great television shows.

 

Kilgrave reminds me of the kid that Bill Mumy played on The Twilight Zone classic It's a Good Life. 

Edited by benteen
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Re: the rape, I like this interview with showrunner Melissa Rosenberg (there are no spoilers past this episode, episode seven):

 

A lot of cable dramas have run into trouble with handling rape as a plot point. Here it's always in the background, either as the trauma it produces or as the threat that looms and hovers. What was the care that you wanted to take with that part of the story?

 

We're very conscious to treat that aspect of the story with sensitivity and responsibility. For me, if I never see an actual rape on a screen again it'll be too soon. It's becoming ubiquitous, it's become lazy storytelling and it's always about the impact it has on the men around them. It's like, "Oh his wife was raped and murdered so he's going to go out and destroy the world." That's so often what it's about, just this kind of de rigueur storytelling to spice up often male character.

It's damaging. It's just hideous messaging, and so coming into this, the events have already happened and this is really about the impact of rape on a person and about healing, survival, trauma and facing demons. To me it's much richer territory. If you turn on any television show or, for that matter, film these days, nine out of 10 of them seem to open with a naked, tied-up, dead woman with her undies around her ankles. I think I've been calling them the NTSDs, which stands for naked, tied-up, dead, I can't remember. They've just become so ubiquitous, it's like numbing the audience to what is a horrific violation.

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Remind me again, was there some reason she couldn't just cold-clock him as they stood toe to toe in the cop shop?  She now has all the witnesses she needs, so long as he's out cold and unable to make them erase the evidence.

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I think that if she did that the cops would have opened fire on the people they had in their cross-hares, maybe even on her. That is potentially huge collateral damage.

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I literally cringed when Jessica went into her old house and Killgrave shut the door, I was anxious and scared.

Killgrave declaring his love for Jessica was horrific. To be the objection of his obsession is terrifying and poor Jess, that she's not a blubbering mess who isn't shut up in a hole somewhere is a miracle.

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I think that if she did that the cops would have opened fire on the people they had in their cross-hares, maybe even on her. That is potentially huge collateral damage.

Agreed. After what Hope did to her parents, Jessica probably fears any Kilgrave'd person could be a sleeper waiting to trigger murder.

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 The SuperMax idea was dumb, but I'm OK with that. This is a woman who has been scared and scarred from the moment we first met her. I don't expect that she'll come up with a foolproof plan on her own, at least not without trial and error. (Reminded me of the prison on Walking Dead; why would you set yourself and your fellow survivors inside a place that is meant as a trap?)

It was a crazy dumb plan but Jessica is totally a woman on edge, totally pushed way beyond anything you might think would be considered a breaking point. Combine the stress, the guilt and all the booze and of course she isn't going to come close to thinking straight. 

 

Also in this episode did we get confirmation that Killgrave's powers no longer work on Jessica. When he left the station he said something like "everyone will think this is a big joke", and then when he walked out everyone was laughing except Jessica. Unless his powers have some kind of intent feature where they only work on people if his brain wants them to. 

 

Also thinking more about Killgrave at the cop station, from what I remembered he told them that what just happened was something really funny (or something along those lines) so does that mean he can make them think something is funny when it isn't, and does that mean he can control people's emotions not just their actions?

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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Why is it that the Netflix shows can get the villains so well, and the movie franchises still struggle to make any memorable villains outside of Loki? Is it because they are limited in terms of the time given to spend on villains (2 hours vs. 13 or so) as well as the exorbitant costs and time involved? Is it because the "big name" actors in the primary heroic roles take up so much time and expense? 

 I  think it's about the audience. Children aren't supposed to watch JJ  so the writers can be honest about  evil  and  its  consecuences. I'm sure there are  lots of lines the writers behind The Avengers franchise can't cross because that  would  alienate their younger audience.

 

The scene at the  police station was amazing. And chilling. Everything about Kilgrave is chilling. I thought he got his powers when he was a teen or even an adult, but the way he spoke makes  me think maybe he was born that way. Poor parents. I really  need a flashback.

 

Poor Ruben, too, I liked him and I wanted to  know what the hell was going on  between  him  and his sister.

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Why is it that the Netflix shows can get the villains so well, and the movie franchises still struggle to make any memorable villains outside of Loki? Is it because they are limited in terms of the time given to spend on villains (2 hours vs. 13 or so) as well as the exorbitant costs and time involved? Is it because the "big name" actors in the primary heroic roles take up so much time and expense? I'm sure all number of reasons, but whatever it is, I wish they'd take a cue from DD and JJ, and start to actually invest in their villains, because no matter how much you put into your heroes, the ultimate measuring stick of their heroism is directly proportional to the villains they face off against, and the more personal their connection to them, the more drama you are going to raise and the more satisfaction the audience will derive once they are defeated.

 

 

Well Jessica Jones is rated TV-MA which allows for a lot of adult content and themes that PG-13 rated Avengers could not do.    Most (if not all) of the Marvel movies are rated PG-13 which means they have to keep the villains at a 13 year old level of evil so that Parents can take their kids to see the movie.  It makes sense financially.  With Netflix taking the reigns off and allowing an adult rating it allows for a more real and realistic evil and for that matter good to come forward.  

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I  think it's about the audience. Children aren't supposed to watch JJ  so the writers can be honest about  evil  and  its  consecuences. I'm sure there are  lots of lines the writers behind The Avengers franchise can't cross because that  would  alienate their younger audience.

I think you are 100% right. Writing this show for adults has made so much difference. I mentioned in an earlier thread about how the "heroes" can be so much more well rounded and flawed because they can be truly damaged. Tony Stark and Steve Rogers have had fucked up things happen to them as well, but can't show nearly the damage Jessica can, because it would be too much for teens/kids to process. And same with the villains, when you only have 3 hours and your villain's motivation has to be something kids can understand to sell toys, they are going to be much more simple.

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Because he wants to confess his love for her, in a truly twisted, sick yet hilarious scene where the monster tries to convince the heroine he has a heart. While he casually dismisses murder and blackmail and everything else he's ever done. I think that's what makes him scary. He's not like the Joker, manic and twitchy and in your face, he's very 'normal'. He does things that are horrific, but doesn't think them at all odd. He was genuinely lost for a second, before recalling what he did to Rueben.

And that's why they hired David Tennant.  He's doesn't feel like pure evil, although he's so much worse than Fisk on Dare Devil.  And I will admit I loved seeing him walk out of the house in those jeans and sweater ...yum!  And yet ...remorseless killer and serial rapist.  I do like that the show isn't making him all that charming.  He's rude and impatient with people.  There's no elegance to his cruelty like there would be with a Hannibal.  

 

But it's delightful to see Tennant just be emotional and out there.  He never gets to play totally in command and it's awesome to see him do it.  

 

Yes, I might be a fan. 

 

I love the supporting cast too.  They've all grown on me other than the cop.although I give the show credit for not making him a throwaway character.  

 

I was kind of hoping the twins had super powers.  Oh well.

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