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General Gabbery: DWTS

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The whole thing was just surreal. I always thought one of the jobs of a mod was to try to keep the peace so to speak rather than try to incite a fight.

 

They'll be the first ones to tell you they're not moderators, it's their site and if you don't like the way they run it, don't go there.

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Yeah moderators go to a special school to learn to be lovely and calm. We get a certificate and everything. ;)

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I'm not sure where else to ask, so here goes. Is it possible to vote for DWTS from outside the US? I'll be out of the country (Hong Kong) next week and would like to be able to vote while I'm away. Has anyone tried this? Is there something different I need to do to make it happen? Thanks for any tips you might offer.

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Online voting is by account so if you can get to the website you should be able to sign in to your account and vote. I live in the Pacific Time Zone but I have a cell phone with and East Coast Area Code and it won't let me vote unless I call during the East Coast voting window. Again, I don't know for sure the answer to your question but my guess is that you should be able to vote using your cell phone or your computer.

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I'm not sure where else to ask, so here goes. Is it possible to vote for DWTS from outside the US? I'll be out of the country (Hong Kong) next week and would like to be able to vote while I'm away. Has anyone tried this? Is there something different I need to do to make it happen? Thanks for any tips you might offer.

Yes, you can vote online on Facebook & at abc.com if you have an account (or more) there. I do, and I live in Europe.

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Thanks Glaadrial, Jobos05 and crowceilidh.  I'll have my computers and will just do the same thing I always do online to vote. I just have to figure out the time zone differences.

 

Edited to add this from the Maks thread:

It wasn't that Peta didn't back him, at least from the interviews I saw, it was that Peta literally said nothing while James went on to say how great it was she was on the show and something about how it's refreshing to hear different perspectives. James, when Charlie White is taking a woman's teaching methods to task and Meryl Davis is basically saying that she needs to be able to take as well as she can dish out, walking the line of civility probably isn't necessary. I mean, you have two people who have been accepting criticism with a smile for years all but point blank says that no one respects her...

 

    I don't know if I think the pros conspired to get that question asked or if the producers had it on hand and would've fed it to any of the male pros as they're more liable to respond as Maks did (though, Sharna probably would've been a good option given the attitude/arabesque drama). I also don't think that they would've worried too much about there being a negative reaction from fans. The woman is fairly universally reviled and I think that had it been anyone other than Maks there probably would've been less back and forth about whether he was being a jerk or not. Derek would've skated by, Mark has been tolerable this season so he probably would have too, and I think Val would've too. That said, from comments around the interwebs it seems like it's energized voters rather than turned them off.

 

The inteview cycle this week was quite something. Charlie White was candid about how much respect he has for the pros on the show and disagreeing with ALM's methods. Tony, Maks (obviously), Sharna, Derek and Mark all had very thoughtful things to say about using positive means of teaching children to dance and all criticized ALM's "teaching" methods and her presence on the show. Meryl found the nicest way possible to say about ALM "If you can dish it out, you should be able to take it". The AfterBuzz crew couldn't stand her either.

I didn't see it because I refuse to watch anything more with ALM than I have to, but apparently she said she had thought Meryl was the frontrunner until she saw her "horrendous feet" in dress rehearsal. Apparently properly pointed toes is the most important thing ever.

Edited by MarySNJ

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I didn't see it because I refuse to watch anything more with ALM than I have to, but apparently she said she had thought Meryl was the frontrunner until she saw her "horrendous feet" in dress rehearsal. Apparently properly pointed toes is the most important thing ever.

She also said that Meryl was milking an injury. I'm not sure which injury that is since we haven't actually heard Meryl mention an injury but I'm guessing it's the broken toe/foot issues that Tony spoke about and Erin alluded to. I must say that we've seen a lot of different ways of milking an injury on this show but not mentioning it is the most unique way yet.
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Meryl is pretty, talented and popular.  Abby Lee is not.  Meryl is probably a hero to Abby's students and is therefore competition to Abby.  So when Abby has a little bit of power she uses it to bring the popular girl down.  But Abby likes cute boys so they get tens from her. (This is my guess at Abby's perspective.)  Her giving tens was a way of trying to get the cute guys to like her.

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I'm confused as to how Abby who weighs 500 lbs can criticize anyone's movement. Dance or otherwise ?

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I'm confused as to how Abby who weighs 500 lbs can criticize anyone's movement. Dance or otherwise ?

She might...might...weigh half that.

Fat people are still capable of movement, and criticism. Shocking, I know. 

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There are many legitimate criticisms to be made of ALM's appearance on DWTS, but guesstimating her weight serves no purpose here.

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There are many legitimate criticisms to be made of ALM's appearance on DWTS, but guesstimating her weight serves no purpose here.

 

Totally agree times ten. It's her mouth and the words that come out of it with which I take issue. I'm with Drew Carey; "ALM needs a big steaming cup of STFU" which I found hilarious.

"I Luh Ya Papi" may be the worst song JLo has ever done, imo, and I normally like her music. Yikes.

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...I ended up at a site (quite by accident the first time) that is known for loving Derek. They also have an inside source which is why I ended up reading it ...

 

 

Apologies Bearcatfan for my tardy response - just catching up on reading the threads now.

 

There was an interesting exchange on Sunday night between that moderator "H" and an operator of another fan site (I'll call "TA").  H had been playing up the Amy will-she-or-won't-she be able to dance Monday night and according to her insider had lost a lot of rehearsal time and Amy was struggling and everyone will need to vote extra hard to keep Amy (Derek) out of danger of elimination.

 

TA disputed that saying her insider was reporting that Amy's dances were looking great.  H quickly shot down TA stating H's insider was more informed.  TA wasn't conforming to the narrative of Amy struggling against overwhelming adversity and TA was effectively neutralized.

 

The exchange highlighted for me that even though H claims insider info, that info may be presented in such a way as to reinforce their party line.  It reminds me to take their "insider info" with many grains of salt.

Edited by Uke
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I think that if you're going to judge/critize ANYONE on how they're dancing, then you should he able to do all of them yourself. Her massive amount of weight would prevent that.

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I think that if you're going to judge/critize ANYONE on how they're dancing, then you should he able to do all of them yourself. Her massive amount of weight would prevent that.

 

And Len's age would prevent that too. There are many reasons Abby Lee isn't qualified to be a judge - what she looks like isn't one of them. 

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I think that if you're going to judge/critize ANYONE on how they're dancing, then you should he able to do all of them yourself. Her massive amount of weight would prevent that.

You should check out the Big Ballet: http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2014/feb/03/big-ballet-c4-plus-size-swan-lake-reality-tv

As noted before, the problem with ALM was her vituperative attitude so let's leave the body snark out if it.

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She also said that Meryl was milking an injury. I'm not sure which injury that is since we haven't actually heard Meryl mention an injury but I'm guessing it's the broken toe/foot issues that Tony spoke about and Erin alluded to. I must say that we've seen a lot of different ways of milking an injury on this show but not mentioning it is the most unique way yet.

Yeah, I agree with you that's the most unique way to milk an injury I've ever seen. I read your post and my first thought was exactly that, "How can you milk something no one ever mentions on the show?" Seems rather impossible to me ALM.

 

She sucks and I'm so glad her episode is behind us.

Edited by SanLynn

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The rating took a dive this week. Perhaps it was the absence of Ricky Martin, but I prefer to think it was the presence of ALM.

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The rating took a dive this week. Perhaps it was the absence of Ricky Martin, but I prefer to think it was the presence of ALM.

I've heard some say it was the absence of Nene, but I seriously doubt that!

 

I think it was ALM.

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I've heard some say it was the absence of Nene, but I seriously doubt that!

 

I think it was ALM.

By any chance was it Nene herself who speculated that her absence caused the ratings drop? LOL

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I think it was because of the 24 premiere.

That makes more sense than anything. I'd forgotten about that because, generally, I don't watch tv anymore except for sporting events and The Walking Dead. I'm only watching this because of Meryl and Charlie. While I enjoy some of the others, none of them would have gotten me to watch.

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I think it was because of the 24 premiere.

I don't think the 24 premiere did well enough to explain that kind of drop, especially since DWTS tends to skew female and I would guess 24 skews male. Maybe the drop was a combo of 24, Abby, and some other things. The audience usually starts to grow towards the end but instead we got a steep drop.

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I don't think the 24 premiere did well enough to explain that kind of drop, especially since DWTS tends to skew female and I would guess 24 skews male. Maybe the drop was a combo of 24, Abby, and some other things. The audience usually starts to grow towards the end but instead we got a steep drop.

I actually thought last week was unusually high for total viewers (15+ million) and this week was on par with the rest of the season. But, 24's demo was great even though total viewers wasn't. I don't agree that 24 skews male though.

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I saw an awful lot of people really angry about ALM "being given a platform", "ABC condoning her behavior", "being given a legitimacy she doesn't deserve" etc. and saying they'd catch their favorite teams on youtube and vote but not watch the show as a protest.  At the time I kind of thought yeah, sure. But now to see the numbers drop makes me think, wow-I guess they really meant it.

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I saw an awful lot of people really angry about ALM "being given a platform", "ABC condoning her behavior", "being given a legitimacy she doesn't deserve" etc. and saying they'd catch their favorite teams on youtube and vote but not watch the show as a protest.  At the time I kind of thought yeah, sure. But now to see the numbers drop makes me think, wow-I guess they really meant it.

Eh, a single week doesn't necessarily indicate any kind of relationship. The numbers for 24's premiere were huge for Fox, up 1.7 and 4.09 from the previous week when Bones was on as a repeat. Essentially, 24's numbers were comparable to Sleepy Hollow's this fall when DWTS was getting about what they did on Monday night. If it's a sustained thing then maybe you can associate the two, but for people to be included in ratings they either need to have a Nielsen box or DVR and watch the show that night without fast forwarding through commercials. I don't know that I believe enough people that fit that criteria made a conscious choice to not watch the show because of ALM.

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Eh, a single week doesn't necessarily indicate any kind of relationship. The numbers for 24's premiere were huge for Fox, up 1.7 and 4.09 from the previous week when Bones was on as a repeat. Essentially, 24's numbers were comparable to Sleepy Hollow's this fall when DWTS was getting about what they did on Monday night. If it's a sustained thing then maybe you can associate the two, but for people to be included in ratings they either need to have a Nielsen box or DVR and watch the show that night without fast forwarding through commercials. I don't know that I believe enough people that fit that criteria made a conscious choice to not watch the show because of ALM.

 

I don't know. It was just an observation. We'll see next week if the numbers pop back up again.  I've only watched DWTS on Mondays for so long, I really have no idea what other shows are on at the same time.

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Quick question: Would the group want a ratings thread? Some forums have one, and some don't. Your call.

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I don't know that I believe enough people that fit that criteria made a conscious choice to not watch the show because of ALM.

I usually follow a couple of live threads during the show, and they all had considerably less activity than usual last week because regular participants were boycotting ALM.

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I usually follow a couple of live threads during the show, and they all had considerably less activity than usual last week because regular participants were boycotting ALM.

I'm sure that there were a lot of people who didn't watch because of her, the bigger question is how many of those people actually have the ability to impact the ratings because the criteria for that is very slim. It's only people with boxes or people who DVR and watch the episode through without fast forwarding that get counted. There've been about a dozen organized boycotts of shows I watch this season and the only times the rating have declined have been on nights where there's something major in the slot (premieres, finales, 100th episodes, sporting championships, etc.). Plus, generally tptb don't get super concerned with a one week ratings drop, it's sustained declines that are the problem. In regards to ALM, I think they'd likely be more concerned by the general hostility between everyone involved than numbers that could be attributed to something else.

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 It's only people with boxes or people who DVR and watch the episode through without fast forwarding that get counted.

 

Maybe that's the way Nielsen handles its sampling now, but when I was a 'Nielsen family' several years ago, there was no requirement about not fast-forwarding through DVR'd episodes for them to count.

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I always assumed TiVo usage data went into the ratings, but the discussion here has made me wonder.

 

Here's the best of what I found via Google: Viewing must occur within a particular timeframe to count: http://people.howstuffworks.com/culture-traditions/tv-and-culture/dvr-viewings-tv-ratings.htm . Advertisers give higher value to "live" viewings over "live plus same day" because viewers who watch live will see the ads, unlike those of us who fast-forward. However, live-plus-same-day, live-plus-three, and live-plus-seven also count, but with lesser weights.

 

So there's an implied devaluation of viewers who fast-forward, but we do count for something.

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So there's an implied devaluation of viewers who fast-forward, but we do count for something.

To my knowledge they don't count at all per a friend who works for another entertainment outlet, which makes sense. The statement that they're devalued is 3 years old. There's no value in ads if people aren't watching ads and that's really what the ratings are for. Most on demand content from major networks have actually disabled the fast forward option. While that wouldn't impact same day ratings, it does allow all views to be counted for L+3 and L+7. Most networks also have ads built into digital content.

For a show with an elimination that's not usually a massive game changer but for scripted shows they can see massive increases in their extended ratings.

Edited by Flick

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That would make sense, Flick. I couldn't find anything putting it that way, but logic says that you're right.

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I can't find anything hard and fast saying that's what happens, but my friend has been pretty insistent upon that fact. It's commonly accepted as fact in the circles I travel in. Even though it does make sense and the fact that networks have begun forcing consumers to sit through commercials supports it, the current system is silly. They could really be getting much more accurate numbers with how far technology has come.

Edited by Flick
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I wonder if the ratings drop was a combination of ALM, the 24 premiere and the feeling the winner this season has already been determined. I know a lot of my friends have already given this season up because they think Meryl and Maks have it in the bag and they got tired of seeing them overpimped and overscored.

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If you want to talk overpimped and overscored, try Amy and Derek. She can do a ton of things without the bottom half of her legs that I can't do with my two, but this tongue bathing over her is irritating. I still don't see the judges scoring her on the same level as the others. And, I think Meryl and Charlie, being ice dancers, are huge ringers as well (as I've thought of most of the athlets that have appeared).

 

I think ABC brought on ALM simply for the DRAMA!! factor that they thought would make for good tv. And they failed. As they have with a few things this season.

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I wonder if the ratings drop was a combination of ALM, the 24 premiere and the feeling the winner this season has already been determined. I know a lot of my friends have already given this season up because they think Meryl and Maks have it in the bag and they got tired of seeing them overpimped and overscored.

Really? I still think there's a very good chance they won't pull it off. I'm thinking Amy and Derek might actually win the whole thing. I think the producers desperately want Maks and Derek in until the very end to maximize the drama.

Edited by Buggin

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Even if tptb don't worry about a one week drop in ratings, a drop for the week that included a controversial guest judge certainly would get noticed. I don't know if I believe that they were "trying her out" as a potential permanent judge, but if they even had an inkling of doing that, I would think the drop in rating would be enough for them to think twice about it.

 

I would hope the fact that nearly all of the pros were upset would be enough to keep them from bringing her on again but that didn't stop them from bringing her on in the first place.

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Given how hard the show pushes social media, I'd suspect the response there is more concerning for them than the ratings. As I said, there are a variety of factors that influence the ratings and they can't be pinned down. There's no denying that the outcry on Facebook and twitter was directly related to ALM because you can see exactly what people are saying. You can't do that with ratings because there's no measurement as to why people are or aren't watching a show. You don't know if people watched something else because they dislike ALM or because they cared more about 24/NBA/whatever than DWTS. Ratings are important, but they're far from the only thing taken into consideration by the networks or advertisers. You can't really prove causation by ratings alone and correlation in a single episode isn't enough to prove anything. Fan response, especially since odds are those fans aren't part of your measurement, and the response of the pros should be what the network reviews in this scenario if ALM was someone they were looking at.

Edited by Flick
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Given how hard the show pushes social media, I'd suspect the response there is more concerning for them than the ratings. As I said, there are a variety of factors that influence the ratings and they can't be pinned down. There's no denying that the outcry on Facebook and twitter was directly related to ALM because you can see exactly what people are saying. You can't do that with ratings because there's no measurement as to why people are or aren't watching a show. You don't know if people watched something else because they dislike ALM or because they cared more about 24/NBA/whatever than DWTS. Ratings are important, but they're far from the only thing taken into consideration by the networks or advertisers. You can't really prove causation by ratings alone and correlation in a single episode isn't enough to prove anything. Fan response, especially since odds are those fans aren't part of your measurement, and the response of the pros should be what the network reviews in this scenario if ALM was someone they were looking at.

I don't completely buy that they care so much about negative comments, I think they need a strong correlation between the negativity and the ratings. If people had been just as negative about ALM, but ratings spiked, then I suspect TPTB would be all smiles. Negative responses on social media are fine as long as people will continue to tune in. Not everything that gets a negative response from fans drives down the ratings. Bristol got huge amounts of backlash, but the ratings were strong and they brought her back for All Stars.

 

I think the point of guest judges is that they can add buzz and bring along a fan base. My guess is that TPTB aren't trying people out so much as they're hoping these people make the audience tune in for the week or keep people engaged enough in the show to keep coming back. ALM may have brought buzz, but her real problem is that she didn't help ratings. I'm actually surprised that the ratings dropped so much for ALM. As hated as she is, a lot of people still tune in to Dance Moms. 

 

Finally, while they can't know exactly why ratings go up and down, ABC does know what the ratings are in 15 minute increments. They know if people tune in early and leave or if they show up late, etc. I would bet someone at DWTS or ABC studies  trends over the season to see if any couples drive ratings in their time block. 

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I would like to see Charlie and Meryl do a dance together.  I suppose it's too late for that.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they did something small during the finale when the judging is over.  A filler dance for time or maybe do something with Maks and Sharna too and then switch off and do the duel dance everyone was hoping for originally.

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I can see this happening. I doubt they could have been together for the duel without "It's not fair" backlash. 

 

Or if the worst happens and Charlie is "shocking eliminated" he could pop in for a cameo in Meryl's freestyle? (Though he might seem to be third-wheeling a bit there.) 

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I feel tempted to start a prayer circle asking God to help Maks not screw up the freestyle again. But maybe God's too busy watching Candace. 

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