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S12.E05: Guess Who's Coming To Dinner

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But if they want Jo and Alex to breakup in order to pair him with Meredith, which is what I think they're doing, imo they should do it for reasons like their age difference, and considering how much they brought  to each other imo, on friendly terms. Instead, I feel that Jo is given the trademark Shondaland treatment for clearing the field:

-vilified: check, see the Stephanie plotline.

-buttmonkey: check, aka "demoted to trash duty".

-constantly put in a bad light: check, the cheese intern. I mean, what was the point of his presence, aside from having her treat him like the delivery boy?

Maybe Jo/Alex has a huge following on other boards or offline, because the most surprising to me is that if I look at this board, it isn't a popular pairing so I don't see why the writers would need to do that to Jo for most people to accept the breakup.

And C.Luddington has always been so enthusiastic about the show, I feel bad for her to see her character treated this way.

 

I see where you are going with this and I agree they have been totally throwing Jo as a character under the bus this season, but I wonder if its in case Camilla doesnt renew her contract rather than being able to pair Meredith and Alex.  It's a shame for Camilla because she seems very happy on the show, but she also seems to be the most likely to move on and get other projects (no offense to the other actors).  

Edited by Greysaddict
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Why couldn't they just stay friends, it was a nice exchange. Writers, think of another story line for Stephanie please, having this trumped up issue with Jo is nonsense. 

 

Remember the Meredith/Cristina fight that took up half of season 10? Trumped up issues between friends are not something these writers do well.

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Ben wasn't in the episode either.

Thanks, it's something how there are characters you just don't notice when they aren't on screen, he's one apparently. At least for me anyway. I also don't notice when Owen isn't on screen either.  In the premiere I didn't notice that April wasn't there until she showed up at the end.

 

Remember the Meredith/Cristina fight that took up half of season 10? Trumped up issues between friends are not something these writers do well.

Oh lord, don't remind me, just unnecessary torture and a waste of episodes in Cristina's last season.

 

 

 

I died laughing when Arizona said that she should date Penny. Then I got upset because Callie is ALWAYS getting cheated on, damn...

Edited by represent
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Remember the Meredith/Cristina fight that took up half of season 10? Trumped up issues between friends are not something these writers do well.

this was honestly one of the worst story arcs of this entire show for me.  I hated that entire stretch. I still can't make it all the way through season 10 because of those episodes.  

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I see where you are going with this and I agree they have been totally throwing Jo as a character under the bus this season, but I wonder if its in case Camilla doesnt renew her contract rather than being able to pair Meredith and Alex.  It's a shame for Camilla because she seems very happy on the show, but she also seems to be the most likely to move on and get other projects (no offense to the other actors).

I don't know what it is because I was never an Izzie/Alex fan because I couldn't stand Izzie.  I mean I could not stand her. Not only that, once she fell in love with Denny and lost her mind cutting LVAD wires and shit, I was like, no, Alex is not her true love, it was Denny. Now Alex has to get sloppy seconds? Yes,he did blow his chance in season two so, that's on him, but he needed to move on. I never thought of Alex and Izzie being each others great loves after Denny.

 

 That being said, I don't buy Jo either, I don't know what it is? They're OK, but I'm not feeling anything that great.

 

You know what I did wonder if he and Meredith were going to do something in that room. I was like wait a minute, where the hell is this going? I don't know maybe, maybe this is always their subtle way of hinting that they might be the end game some day. Seeing as Jo gets ignored by him for Meredith and this isn't the first time  right?   But I couldn't see this happening until the show ends, whenever that is..

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Can I just say how much I loved this episode for having (almost) no music at all. THIS is what gave room to the writing and acting to stand out and in turn made this one of the best episodes in a long time. How great is it that they realised we don't need to be drowned in awful cover versions all the time to FEEL.

 

Of course, this won't work for every episode and yes I do love me some Chasing Cars. But tonight I was just happy with the very natural silence.

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I don't like that Jo called Alex a jerk because he was "ignoring" her. He was not ignoring her, he was taking care of his friend. I would do the same thing if I were him. Bros before hoes!

Edited by Kagomei
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Ben wasn't in the episode either.

 

I believe that's two weeks in a row now, but I might be wrong. I know Bailey wasn't in last week's episode. 

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Here's a random thought I just had: the Derek-killer doctor is named Penny, and she keeps showing up in Meredith's life. Did they name her Penny to play off that old expression about someone who keeps showing up when you don't want see them: "they're like a bad penny."

Just my ... ahem....two cents.

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I see where you are going with this and I agree they have been totally throwing Jo as a character under the bus this season, but I wonder if its in case Camilla doesnt renew her contract rather than being able to pair Meredith and Alex.  It's a shame for Camilla because she seems very happy on the show, but she also seems to be the most likely to move on and get other projects (no offense to the other actors).  

It could be, too. Hey, maybe they'll do like George and really throw her under a bus. It would be the lesser evil for me in a way if it was a question of contract, but I regret that they choose this option anyway.

 

 

I don't think Jo was finding excuses for why Stephanie was excelling. She just said that maybe there was a connection....I don't think that was an insult or a criticism, it was an observation that being sick as a made her the person she is today.  That's not diminishing her talent and skill, it's just noting that maybe it developed, or her drive developed, out of a childhood weakness. It's still acknowledging that she's talented and skilled.

I agree.

I don't think she was even talking about Stephanie as a surgeon, or her skills, or anything. I don't even think she was talking about excelling, this is something that Stephanie, actually, put on the map.

 

This is how it went down:

-It makes sense, now. The way that you do things, and... You were sick, and I had a crappy childhood, but it made us even stronger, you know. We both had to work even harder to get where we are. I feel like I understand you more.

-You understand me more because I was sick?

- I just don't understand why you didn't tell me...

-You can't even wrap your mind around it, can you? That I just might be better at this than you are, that I might be stronger, or smarter, or more savvy, you need to have a reason for me to have an edge up on you. You need some deep dark secrets motivating me operating circles around you. You need an even playing field [?] before you can even be good with me. OK, stop trying to make us even, Jo. Cause we're not even.

 

For me, "the way that you do things" refers to Stephanie's attitude, in general. It isn't even "the way you work", so I don't see a reference to her skills as a doctor here. There's strictly no judgement and no evaluation whatsoever.

Jo says that they both had hurdles to overcome in order to get where they are, she identifies with Stephanie. If there's any comparison it's with people who didn't have a hard childhood. She didn't even say that Stephanie wasn't strong without her disease, since she said "even stronger". So I don't see any kind of belittling here, either.

And Stephanie takes offense at Jo saying she understands her more. "More", not "completely", so Stephanie knows that Jo doesn't define her only through her disease. She's the one who introduces the notion of operating, she's the one who introduces the comparison between them. So from what she says, I take that she feels belittled because Jo said they were similar whereas she thinks she is superior.

 

Last week, the maneuver was obvious, but Stephanie had a a leg to stand on. Here, she had nothing, imo. If they wanted the conflict to last, I just don't know why they didn't simply have Stephanie be too deeply hurt and refuse to forgive.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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Amelia is the most self-centered and selfish character is this show by a long shot. I've never thought anyone could ever be more selfish than Izzie, Burke and Meredith during her mommy and daddy issues days, but I was wrong. Amelia is a horrible character and I just wish she would leave. She is no twisted sister like Cristina, she is no little Grey like Lexie, she is not even ok like Maggie. She is plain awful, but after all those years I expect Shonda to make Amelia perform ground-breaking neurosurgery to save Zola's life or be a bone marrow donor to little Bailley so Meredith will have to join the Saint Amelia chorus.

 

That nonsense about Owen wishing Cristina was dead was just another way to make Amelia look good. How can she be the horrible person she actually is if the guy in front of her is saying that when he heard about his ex-wife plane crashing he wished she was dead? See what Shonda did there? Compared to him, Amelia is much better. 

 

I have always been on the fence about Cristina and Owen. The chemistry was there and Sandra Oh and Kevin McKidd played off of each other really well, but their relationship was at times co-dependent and unhealthy, and it dragged. However, I do not believe that Owen wanted or wished or ever considered the idea of Cristina dying. But Amelia/Owen (Caterina/Kevin) have very little chemistry, and Shonda needs to make Amelia better than Cristina and Amelia/Owen better than Cristina, so why not re-create history? I can forsee the same happening to Meredith/Derek when a new love interest come.

 

I like Jo and Alex, but I wouldn't mind seeing Meredith and Alex becoming an item in the future. They have an easy friendship going on there, and while it is not earth shattering chemistry, it could work. Those kids need a father figure.

 

Arizona and Callie are the new Cristina and Owen. They should just go on with their lives, and remain apart, but Shonda will play the fans until the end of the days. April and Jackson are getting there, too.

 

Almost no music was the best thing.

Edited by AndreaMarcy
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I know I should hate the arrival of Penny, it's contrived, it's full on soap opera, it defies logic that she would end up at Meredith's house............but I don't.

 

I rewatched the Derek dies episode right before this season, and I bought that Penny (didn't know her name then) was destroyed by what happened and that she really listened when Meredith told her that it was her responsibility to be a better doctor thereafter. So it makes sense to me she would dump Podunk Little Hospital and try to go for one of the best hospitals in the region (or so they say:)).  And of course, she'd end up in this mess at St. Derek Memorial Hospital (or whatever the name really is:))

 

So, I don't know if it is because I felt what the actress was selling, or I liked how she made Meredith seem so much more human and wise and generous, while in horrible pain, in both appearances to date, but I'm okay with her being on the show for now. 

Edited by pennben
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(Not liking Penny getting re-matched to Grey Sloan, though, and Meredith giving her the okay to stay with it in the end. This whole turn of events is veering into contrived territory.)

 

This. The last thing this show needs is another new character, and yet here we are. And Penny should've gotten the hell out of Meredith's house a whole lot faster than she did, but alas now the plot device is on the road to getting the Meredith Grey Seal of Approval. But first they are going to milk all of the drama they can out of the situation. 

 

So I guess between her and Martin Henderson's upcoming arrival, more screen time will be cut from others in favor of the new kids. 

 

By far the best part of the episode was Meredith first dropping the bomb and then Meredith and Amelia's heated exchange. 

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This was narratively contrived (particularly the means used to get Penny to GSMH), but the installment itself thrived on its simple design, its emphasis on the characters' relationships, and its focus on Meredith, which, as usual, remains a proven tool for giving the show both purpose and power. In fact, Pompeo did her best work yet. Surprisingly, I didn't hate anyone in this offering, and I credit the script for its heretofore unseen balance of humanity and finesse. (I did miss Richard though, especially with this being the 250th.)

 

I never thought I'd say this, but the show -- even with characters like the insufferable Amelia in place of the brilliant Cristina -- is better now than it was three years ago. Killing Derek was the best decision this show has made in years.

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I thought the episode was excellent for reasons already covered, so here's all I have to add:

 

--Maggie's UTI was what doctors used to refer to as "Honeymoon Syndrome"--happens frequently after lots and lots of sex.  (Funny story, how I know that.)  Unless it's just one of those things ancient family practitioners knew that they don't teach in medical school anymore, Maggie should have known this and not spazzed out.  Once again, the part of the ditzy fifth grader is played by Dr. Maggie. 

 

--Did you notice that every woman at the dinner party had been styled with unusually full luxurious hair?  Except Penny, who was like a skinned rabbit.

 

--I can't remember verbatim what accusations the delightful Amelia was hurling at Owen, but I thought it was leading into Owen giving the narcissistic bint a wakeup call that he had experienced tragedy and suffering in his life as well.  Confiding "My Most Shameful Impulse" didn't seem to fit right there. 

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I'm going to say Penny is still so overcome by guilt that subconsciously she decided to go to the place where Derek's wife and friends and was so loved as a way of punishing herself. She could have left Meredith's house at any time but she just stuck around like a masochist.

Edited by VCRTracking

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I really, really dislike Amelia but I felt like her outburst and repeatedly badgering Penny and Meredith for details about how Derek died stemmed from the fact that Meredith never called her to let her know "Hey, Derek was in an accident and to get the hospital ASAP because I'm about to pull the plug".

 

I feel like - and of course I don't know because Shonda saw fit to yadda yadda the aftermath of Derek's death and the entire year after - that Meredith never really gave her the specifics of what exactly happened that night.

 

As a neurosurgeon, I can imagine that Amelia would want - actually NEED - to know all those details.

 

I can give her a pass for her manic insistence with Penny to know everything if the events of his treatment are still unknown to her.

 

And given that, from what we know, Meredith still never gave her those details I can see why Amelia's need for those facts came out as "Why did you do this to me?".  

 

I still wanted to slap her face for saying it and how she said it.

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Stephanie's outburst to Jo was a rant Izzie Stevens would be proud of. So obnoxious.

Are they writing Canilla Luddington out? As already said above they're certainly ticking all the boxes in attempting to get viewers to hate her. I like Jo, I always have and while reaction to her here is lukewarm I know plenty of other sites and non online viewers who enjoy her so I don't know if treating her like shit before dumping her off the show is the way to go.

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Once again, the part of the ditzy fifth grader is played by Dr. Maggie. 

 

I do find this aspect of Maggie annoying but something Callie said this episode made me "get" Maggie more. 

When she called Maggie a 'child prodigy' I realised that Maggie was probably so focused on the academic side of her life from a young age that she didn't get to have a normal childhood and develop her social skills in the way that most kids do. 

 

I know a couple of young adults who are very academically advanced to the detriment of their maturity in social situations. 

 

It's still really annoying when Maggie goes into one though. 

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I would think a child prodigy would learn how to flush a toilet after peeing (I assume shew peed, even if it didn't sound like it) jet uti infected pee into it. Funniest part of the show was when DeLuca walked into the exam room. Second funniest was when blond intern showed up and the invited himself to stay for dinner. 3rd funniest, but also sad, was Mer kicking the door shut in Callie'a face.

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Wow ... what can I say that hasn't already been said?

 

The first act, I could barely breathe.  Ellen acted the hang out of the whole episode.  I ached for Meredith.  That was some good acting.

No music?  Ok, just one song, and I still don't understand the placement, but the no music throughout the whole thing was killer.  The first act seemed like there was a very low heartbeat sound, it was effective whatever it was.

I love that Alex was the one worried about Meredith.  The whole bedroom scene ... there was a silence there that was so thick, again, I found it hard to breathe.  But Alex, OMG, Alex, you are a saint.  The kicking the door shut was priceless.

Killer line ... That's where Derek died ... Perfect Penny killed my husband.  BAM and dang.

Silence.  Wow.  I am just shocked at how well it was all played out.  The acting on all fronts was just way above par.

 

Grief is such a hard emotion to live through.  You say and do things that are out of character.  The smack down on Amelia was well placed, however, her being selfish was in character for an addict (who always thinks it's about them), so I saw both sides.  

 

Wow, can I just say that again?  That is going to be a hard episode to follow.

 

I yelled at my TV when Meredith said "See you Monday" ... my daughter came out of her room and said "who died now, Mom?"

 

HA!

 

So glad I watched it live.

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I wanted to like this one so much more than I did.  My main take away is that Penny is about to become the new Maggie - the character who appears absolutely out of nowhere and becomes the focus for god knows how many episodes, eating up screentime and getting development that some characters who have been here years are still waiting for.  I am really, really not up for that and the thought is souring a season that I had been enjoying thus far.

 

Maybe because I am very bad with second-hand embarrassment or maybe because I have just never cared that much about Derek, but some of this episode was just excruciating and overwrought.  "Perfect Penny KILLED my husband!!!!"  First off, no she didn't and secondly, really?  And Amelia coming at Meredith like a roided up badger was ridiculous too.  I get that it was a shock and they are all still dealing with their grief, but yeesh.  The woman is a resident, and I realize that these surgeons are superhero gods now, but have they never lost a patient?  Thank god for April's speech, too bad those that needed to hear it the most weren't there. 

 

I also have no clue what they are doing with Jo, but it is just painful now to watch.  I mean they are having her haul trash and every single person (sometimes including Alex) either completely dismisses her or talks to her like she is not worthy of respect at all.  Not just as a doctor but as a person.  I could see someone like her getting paranoid that people treat her like dirt, but hey just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you.  I don't think that they are going to go there with Mer and Alex, and I will stop watching before I see Alex try and fail to live up to St. McDreamy.  I don't think Camilla Luddington is going anywhere either, but maybe they will have Jo have some kind of breakdown and breakup with Alex.  I'm fine with it at this point.

 

Remember the Meredith/Cristina fight that took up half of season 10? Trumped up issues between friends are not something these writers do well.

 

 

I think that this is kind of what they are going for, with Stephanie focuses on her career completely and Jo being distracted by her personal life.  Complete with Jo taking absolutely non-stop about Alex like Meredith used to do about Derek in the earlier seasons.  I like Jo, but she really isn't helping herself.  I just hope that this is the kick in the ass she needs to focus on career and stop whining about Alex.

 

Arizona was hands down the best thing about this episode, she was cracking up.  And I also liked Jackson and Alex secret taco meeting.  Its a shame that the Chief wasn't there.

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 Funniest part of the show was when DeLuca walked into the exam room. Second funniest was when blond intern showed up and the invited himself to stay for dinner. 3rd funniest, but also sad, was Mer kicking the door shut in Callie'a face.

I meant to point this out in my earlier post - but I thought it was a perfect snapshot of how much Alex has grown and matured over 11+ years by his mouthed "sorry" to Callie as the door shut in her face. I laughed out loud - but also thought to myself: Hmmmm - intern/resident Alex would never care about someone else's feelings. He is taking his "Person" assignment very seriously. 

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My main take away is that Penny is about to become the new Maggie - the character who appears absolutely out of nowhere and becomes the focus for god knows how many episodes, eating up screentime and getting development that some characters who have been here years are still waiting for.  I am really, really not up for that and the thought is souring a season that I had been enjoying thus far.

 

 I do see that happening, Mrs. Readster and I really enjoyed this show but we all agree on "Perfect Penny" is going to eat up screen time. Even by the previews, we get it, she isn't the best resident. Plus, she's been painted as an idiot since the beginning. "Let's skip the CT." Penny: "We shouldn't do that, we might see something in it." "It'll be a waste of time." Penny: "Ok." "I can't be bothered for some guy you found. I have more important things to do." Penny: "But your the attending neurologist." "Fix it yourself!" Penny: "Ok." 

   Then you had the reveal who Derek was and everyone went ballistic on why they weren't trying to save him. Everyone screwed up at that medical center. They acted like their patient just hit their head, that he was a nobody that didn't need time. Then the medical center loses money and gets shut down. Hmmm.... I wonder why? Then Penny's excuse for not saying anything to Callie and applying to GS was because: "It was a big hospital." Apparently, Perfect Penny can't do a google search, read up on how long Derek was at the hospital, ect. Now, we will be subjected to her being yelled at as a little school girl who gets in trouble with the teacher. But then will magically became an amazing surgeon in a crisis and be redeemed. Sure!

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The episode was just ok for me. Parts of it were excellent, parts were annoying. All the machinations to keep Penny at the party were ridiculous. Penny is an adult. She could have just gotten up and left at any time. She could have insisted that all of the fools talking over her shut up so she could explain that she had to leave immediately.

I hate Amelia. Hate. I seem to have an aversion to the actress. But I felt for her in this episode. She was being fairly insufferable, but she had the right to be upset. Meredith knew it would be problem for Penny's connection to Derek's death to come out. Of course Amelia was going to have a strong and horrified reaction. Why does husband trump brother? Why does Meredith get to say, "well he was my husband. so you don't get to talk or to be upset. We fucked and could get divorced at any time. So that clearly trumps brother on every possible level"? Why does one get to be more devastated than the other? I didn't really like Meredith's actions in this episode. And shutting the door in Callie's face? Derek didn't die two days ago. He died a year and some change ago. We've all been through terrible grief, you hopefully get to a point after a year where you don't wantonly trample over those close to you in your despair.

I basically didn't pay attention to Maggie and her hot intern. Are they always going to be the comic relief couple? And dammit, if Maggie knows she's prone to UTIs, she needs to be taking reasonable precautions after sex.

I didn't want to punch April in the face this episode. Success.

Jackson seems to be wavering on the April front. I need him to be strong. She's a terrible wife who only thinks of herself.

The writers are really trying to make Cross happen.

I loved Stephanie's incisive deconstruction of Jo. She took her down! Right when Jo was lulled in a sense of sisterhood. I didn't have an issue with anything she said. All the evidence put before us is that Stephanie is smart and works her ass off. Jo bitches to her boyfriend and looks annoyed all the time. Instead of recognizing and respecting that Stephanie is just better than her, she's spinning her wheels. That's unfortunate because the only way to catch up to people who are better than you at something is to acknowledge it and then use it to work harder.

Meredith is the one who has to raise Derek's children and explain to them that their father is dead. She gets trump card. Sorry not sorry.

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I meant to point this out in my earlier post - but I thought it was a perfect snapshot of how much Alex has grown and matured over 11+ years by his mouthed "sorry" to Callie as the door shut in her face. I laughed out loud - but also thought to myself: Hmmmm - intern/resident Alex would never care about someone else's feelings. He is taking his "Person" assignment very seriously. 

 

Good point. It's very true, about Alex - his growth is one of the best things to watch. Which is why I hate that his relationship with Jo is so boring. I think Shonda needs to realize how much better this show is when the focus is on Meredith and Alex. This episode & the 3rd of the season (the Alex-centric one) have the been the strongest in a long time. Also; love your Sydney Bristow icon. My screen name is from Alias lol. 

Edited by BaseOps
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I died laughing when Arizona said that she should date Penny. Then I got upset because Callie is ALWAYS getting cheated on, damn...

This is why I had an issue with the content of what she was saying.

It wasn't funny.

When Callie thought Penny was nervous about meeting Arizona, she told her Arizona was great. To be honest, nothing about her drunken behaviour was great.

At the beginning she had a few funny moments but after she made me cringe.

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So many awesome things about this episode! I loved that Alex immediately knew something was wrong with Meredith so he asked her repeatedly what was going on and then kept a very close eye on her. In some shots you could see him watching her from the other room as he tried to figure out why she was being so weird. After she left the table, I actually started counting in my head to see how many seconds it would take before he went to check on her. Once he was upstairs with her, I loved that he was asking her what he could do and whether she wanted him to kick Penny out of the house.

 

I HATED when Amelia barged in and then started badgering Meredith about how she could do this to HER. I get that Amelia lost her brother and of course she is allowed to grieve, but that doesn't give her carte blanche to keep blaming Meredith for things like this. I loved that Meredith very explicitly said, "I didn't do anything to you." I also loved when Owen later told Amelia, "No one did anything to you." Amelia is so busy seeing herself as the victim and blaming other people for how she feels.

 

I did feel for Penny because no matter how many mistakes she made, she didn't deserve to have an entire table of Derek's friends and family staring at her and demanding answers. It was not surprising at all to me that April (who was not a great resident if I'm remembering things correctly) sympathized with her and remembered her own fellow screw up. High five to her for making dinner, but I was rolling my eyes as she glared daggers at Jackson talking to Stephanie. If the girl he was dating when he interrupted your wedding and ran off with you can talk to him politely at a dinner party, keep your current bitterness to yourself. I was so disappointed when Jackson seemed to be softening towards April at the end of the episode.

 

But my sympathy for Penny is countered by two things: (1) she could have politely excused herself at any time before that information came out and (2) if she chooses to show up at Grey/Sloan on Monday morning now that she knows what's what, then she is an idiot. Not only will she have Meredith to contend with, but most of the hospital staff is going to be staring at her and whispering about her. Only a complete moron would think otherwise, so if she chooses to put herself in that position then she has no one to blame but herself for not immediately requesting a new match.

 

The writers need to stop trying to make Cross happen. It was shitty and unprofessional for Jo to make him go buy cheese and deliver it to a dinner party he wasn't invited to. It's one thing to treat an intern like your servant at work, but not during off hours. It's just another sign of her bad attitude (which just makes me believe that if she had joined a sorority, she would have hazed the shit out of the pledges and justified it by saying, "We all got hazed so it's your turn now!"). She could have taken the opportunity to help with dinner as a way to hang out and socialize with whoever was in the kitchen. She could have talked to them about non-work stuff so they would see her as a person instead of a subordinate. Instead she saw it as scut work and pouted about it. I was also annoyed when she said that Alex was ignoring her. No, he was helping a friend who was having a really difficult night. That's not the same thing as ignoring you.

 

Some small moments I enjoyed were Alex mouthing "Sorry" as the door shut in Callie's face and DeLuca's explanation about why he was there ("I just go where they tell me to go!').

 

I fanwanked that Weber wasn't at the dinner because they needed someone to watch the idiot interns at the hospital.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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I think that this is kind of what they are going for, with Stephanie focuses on her career completely and Jo being distracted by her personal life. Complete with Jo taking absolutely non-stop about Alex like Meredith used to do about Derek in the earlier seasons. I like Jo, but she really isn't helping herself. I just hope that this is the kick in the ass she needs to focus on career and stop whining about Alex.

I can see that. My problem with this Stephanie and Jo stuff is that I don't know if Stephanie is better than Jo. She's better at working the system, and she found a mentor who let her in on a ground-breaking surgery, but is she a better surgeon? I don't know if Jo is a good surgeon or not because we rarely see her assisting in surgeries, just getting kicked out of rooms, not because she's shown to screw up or be unprepared or be obsessed with her personal life or anything like that, but just because.
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I don't know if Jo is a good surgeon or not because we rarely see her assisting in surgeries, just getting kicked out of rooms, not because she's shown to screw up or be unprepared or be obsessed with her personal life or anything like that, but just because.

See that's the thing and it's why to an extent I understand her frustration last week when she thought Stephanie was getting ahead by lying. So far we haven't seen Jo as incapable. The reasons for her not getting ahead like Stephanie seem to be she's just not as likeable as Stephanie apparently is. She was kicked out of surgery because Meredith doesn't like her and doesn't want her in the gang. She couldn't work with Amelia because she has bonded with and prefers Stephanie. She doesn't get the opportunities Steph gets and therefore it's not known if she's good or bad. From what I can gather all the attendings just don't like her and that reflects on the fact that her work ability is completely unknown. She's not given a chance to show it.

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Arizona was hands down the best thing about this episode, she was cracking up.

 

Her "Wait for it" line to Owen during the whole Penny reveal had me and the SO rolling. Can Shonda keep her light-hearted for the rest of the season? She's more fun like that.

Edited by kdm07
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I can see that. My problem with this Stephanie and Jo stuff is that I don't know if Stephanie is better than Jo. She's better at working the system, and she found a mentor who let her in on a ground-breaking surgery, but is she a better surgeon? I don't know if Jo is a good surgeon or not because we rarely see her assisting in surgeries, just getting kicked out of rooms, not because she's shown to screw up or be unprepared or be obsessed with her personal life or anything like that, but just because.

 

That's just it.  Neither of these characters get sufficient screentime or development to make heads or tails of what the writers are trying to do here.  Jo literally does nothing except talk about Alex or how she is being treated unfairly, which I do think she is.  So she gets no professional development and then complains about the fact that she is floundering, giving her a bad attitude, which then leads to more dismissive attitudes by everyone she comes into contact with.  She could do more to ingratiate herself to her superiors, but any attempt at that, gets thrown back in her face (her off er to babysit Mer's kids, her offer to help with dinner).  Its a cycle and she just can't win.  I like her as a character, but its starting to be an uphill battle.

 

Cut to Stephanie, who gets the sympathetic treatment.  Dumped at a wedding, betrayed by her friend, going after a high-schooler, helping Bailey cover up her trial nonsense, being called out by and then celebrated by Amelia.  She gets shown in a much, much better light than Jo, which is fine, maybe she is better, but neither of them is given any nuance at all.

 

I just hope that this is going somewhere and that Jo is going to get some kind of redemption.  Otherwise have her go on some mad killing spree and be done with it.

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I really enjoyed this episode and how everyone was uncomfortable at the dinner, one way or another. Ellen P did a great job of conveying her confusion and hurt. I continue to dislike Amelia, but agree that she has a right to miss her brother. I do find it almost impossible to believe that Penny wouldn't have some clue about Meredith's house or the hospital. I don't like her and she doesn't seem lively enough for Callie.

 

As for Owen, while I like Owen which colors my opinion; we all have had fleeting thoughts that we might be ashamed of. He didn't say he wants Christina dead. He said he had a fleeting thought that it would be easier to mourn her if she were dead instead of mourning her while she lives elsewhere. We can't control our thoughts. 

 

Still love Alex and his friendship with Mer. I would never be able to see them as romantic partners though. I hope Jackson and April can resolve their differences, they are one of my favorite couples on the show. And yes, Maggie was acting silly and I find it hard to believe she would even have sex without a condom. Also, as a doctor she would know it was probably a UTI, you don't need to immediately leave a dinner party because of it, and I don't see going to the bathroom every 10 seconds. I like the actress but if you want me to believe she is a world class surgeon at such a young age (looking at you Amelia), then have her act like one instead of a high school girl.

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Ben and Richard must have been keeping the hospital together while everyone else partied.  Either that or they were the babysitters for all those poor kids who never see their parents.

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What bothered me most about this episode was that there was a room full of medical professionals and they all acted like Penny actually killed Derek. I get that they're all personally involved and thus can't be completely rational and objective (Meredith and Amelia most of all, obviously), but come on. Thank God for April being the voice of the reason there in end. But hey, it's a soap opera after all. 

 

Stephanie's psychotic outburst at Jo was quite frankly inexplicable. Like, where are they going with it other than it obviously being a part of the "Jo sucks at life and everyone takes a crap at her" storyline they keep pursuing for some reason? It would be totally understandable if Stephanie was still too angry at Jo for what she did, but to have them make up and then have Stephanie attack her so viciously seemingly unprovoked... It was pretty bizarre.

 

Why is Maggie freaking out over sex so much? You'd think she was a virgin. Come to think about it, even April acted more rationally after having sex with Jackson for the first time. 

Edited by Joana
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Stephanie's outburst to Jo was a rant Izzie Stevens would be proud of. So obnoxious.

Are they writing Canilla Luddington out? As already said above they're certainly ticking all the boxes in attempting to get viewers to hate her. I like Jo, I always have and while reaction to her here is lukewarm I know plenty of other sites and non online viewers who enjoy her so I don't know if treating her like shit before dumping her off the show is the way to go.

 

It's having the opposite effect on me.  I HATED Jo, simply hated her until this season. I never got past that horribly truncated and badly handled mess of a storyline with the intern that she beat up.

 

Now that she's been chosen as the loser punching bag, I feel for her and am liking her more than the ones punching her.

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Good point. It's very true, about Alex - his growth is one of the best things to watch. Which is why I hate that his relationship with Jo is so boring. I think Shonda needs to realize how much better this show is when the focus is on Meredith and Alex. This episode & the 3rd of the season (the Alex-centric one) have the been the strongest in a long time. Also; love your Sydney Bristow icon. My screen name is from Alias lol. 

 

:-) It's my go-to comparison for all things. In fact, earlier this week when reading about The Fuggirls "The Royal We" being picked up for a movie by Lauren Graham and Mae Whitman, my tweet was:  Bravermans + @fuggirls =a squee not heard since the Syd-Vaughn kiss of 2003. @KristinDSantos @MichaelAusiello

 

I fanwanked that Weber wasn't at the dinner because they needed someone to watch the idiot interns at the hospital.

 

 

Ben and Richard must have been keeping the hospital together while everyone else partied.  Either that or they were the babysitters for all those poor kids who never see their parents.

Ha! that's what I was going to say! the hospital 24-hour daycare needed more hands on deck since every one of the parents or alternate caregivers was getting drunk!

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It's having the opposite effect on me.  I HATED Jo, simply hated her until this season. I never got past that horribly truncated and badly handled mess of a storyline with the intern that she beat up.

 

Now that she's been chosen as the loser punching bag, I feel for her and am liking her more than the ones punching her.

 

Agreed. I actually liked her this installment, and thought both the writing and playing were, for once, natural. 

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This is totally unimportant, but how beautiful Mer's house looks now. The whole house is redecorated and I love the room next to the front door.

Oh, and Ellen's hair is always so on point. Love it!

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I wanted to like this one so much more than I did.  My main take away is that Penny is about to become the new Maggie - the character who appears absolutely out of nowhere and becomes the focus for god knows how many episodes, eating up screentime and getting development that some characters who have been here years are still waiting for.  I am really, really not up for that and the thought is souring a season that I had been enjoying thus far.

I totally agree. And it's what frustrates me most of all.

 

In all honesty, Penny's one appearance has laid enough seeds of drama for Meredith and Amelia and even Callie to where she no longer needs to be around, except for the fact that the show is going to milk this for all that it's worth and this will be "the arc" of the season.

 

I just wish yet another new character addition wasn't coming at the expense of the 14 other series regulars who most have had very limited screen time. And this is not including the addition of Martin Henderson, whose character will also be front and center at some point.

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Amelia is insufferable a lot of the time, but im not going to fault her for however she's expressing her grief unless/until she becomes a danger to herself or someone else. She's entitled to be a mess a year, or 2 or 3 later. Derek was her brother, her best friend, mentor, and she probably considers him her hero given the circumstances of their father's death. Its tough to lose someone that means that much to you. But is it as much or more than a husband and father of one's children? I dont know.

Either way, losing someone is devastating. However, it is easier (in my unfortunate experience) when both the sibling and the spouse are respectful of each other's pain and considerate of each other. Meredith was not. Not unlike Amelia, it was all about her. Fortunately, my sister-in-law kept me in the loop and I was able to say goodbye to my brother. And this involved a rushed cross-country trip instead of a reasonable local drive.

 

Amelia's still mad at Meredith for not calling her when she was at the hospital with Derek.  So she's now outraged that, as it appears to her, Meredith once again is keeping information about Derek to herself instead of remembering Derek has a sister,  a sister who just hugged the doc who "killed Derek."  I get it - it's insult to injury.  And those two never resolved that, not that we saw because they mostly skipped a year.

I expected their conversation to go to that point, and was somewhat disappointed that it didn't.

 

What bothered me most about this episode was that there was a room full of medical professionals and they all acted like Penny actually killed Derek. I get that they're all personally involved and thus can't be completely rational and objective (Meredith and Amelia most of all, obviously), but come on. Thank God for April being the voice of the reason there in end. But hey, it's a soap opera after all. 

This bothered me too. There is no way these doctors didn't have a similar incident in their pasts. And that once they heard the full story from Penny, they didn't recognize that there were multiple contributing factors to his death.

 

Jo annoyed me by being insulted at being called into service to help cook. April was a guest too - that's what people do, pitch in when needed. Sure, being a guest at a grand event means you don't have to do anything. But at a friend's house, you're bound to be called on to help - or should at least offer to help - at some point. (and yeah, I know they're not her friends, but they are Alex's, and if she wants to make friends with them...)

 

On a lighter note - When Jo was trying to get Stephanie to talk to her and said "It's important", my closed captioning read:  "I'm important" - very meta. LOL. 

 

Also, very minor thing - does anyone chop their celery that way? Through the whole bunch? Because when I pull of ribs and wash them, there is always dirt and/or other unidentifiable stuff to wash off.

Edited by clanstarling
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I do find this aspect of Maggie annoying but something Callie said this episode made me "get" Maggie more. 

When she called Maggie a 'child prodigy' I realized that Maggie was probably so focused on the academic side of her life from a young age that she didn't get to have a normal childhood and develop her social skills in the way that most kids do. 

 

I know a couple of young adults who are very academically advanced to the detriment of their maturity in social situations. 

 

It's still really annoying when Maggie goes into one though. 

Maggie's constant recollection/reiteration of her "sexcapades" is "way over the top."

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Yayaya that-a-gal! Ellen Pompeo ROCKED THIS EP!  These last few season were basically watching Pompeo try and stay awake - FINALLY girl is present!  Stephanie and Jo just got interesting.  And we all know where Alex and Mer are headed.  And then Penny, which is fine. It is fine.  I love watching Mer become a palatable, even compelling, version of her mother, who I could see with an Alex-type. It's all coming together in the absence of mcdreamies.  Season 12, let's give 'er a go!

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This bothered me too. There is no way these doctors didn't have a similar incident in their pasts. And that once they heard the full story from Penny, they didn't recognize that there were multiple contributing factors to his death.

 

It's especially annoying considering that Meredith had enough presence of mind in the immediate aftermath to recognize that it wasn't entirely Penny's fault, to talk to her reasonably and encourage her to use this experience to make herself a better doctor.

It's natural that she wouldn't want her around in her own house and that her presence would be too painful, but the whole "OMG, she killed my husband" business was over the top. 

Ellen Pompeo did a very good job, though.

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It's especially annoying considering that Meredith had enough presence of mind in the immediate aftermath to recognize that it wasn't entirely Penny's fault, to talk to her reasonably and encourage her to use this experience to make herself a better doctor.

It's natural that she wouldn't want her around in her own house and that her presence would be too painful, but the whole "OMG, she killed my husband" business was over the top. 

Ellen Pompeo did a very good job, though.

I thought Meredith was doing fairly well and just trying to get through the evening. It's finding out that penny was going to be a resident and therefore a regular fixture in her life that made her snap.

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Jo annoyed me by being insulted at being called into service to help cook. April was a guest too - that's what people do, pitch in when needed. Sure, being a guest at a grand event means you don't have to do anything. But at a friend's house, you're bound to be called on to help - or should at least offer to help - at some point. (and yeah, I know they're not her friends, but they are Alex's, and if she wants to make friends with them...)

 

 

Being asked to help is one thing.  Having orders barked at you like you are a servant (at best) is a totally different story.  And then being told that your help wasn't good enough, and very much not for the first time, is also something altogether different.  Jo was whiny this episode, but she didn't want to come in the first place and I don't blame her.  When she has reached out to some of these people she gets treated like dirt.  I would have been hitting the bottle with Arizona, except Arizona probably wouldn't have shared, especially with Jo.

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So Penny said the hospital was closed down, right? I wonder if Mer ended up suing the hospital... probably not, though. Just a thought.

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OK, it's been mentioned before but no I am seeing it, Alex is really packing on the pounds. I know it was mentioned earlier that he was a fat kid but is this a story line or is Justin just getting fat?

 

So Penny said the hospital was closed down, right? I wonder if Mer ended up suing the hospital... probably not, though. Just a thought.

 

Derek was one of the leading surgeons in the nation with a family, kids and major financial responsibilities, it is highly likely that he had hefty insurance policies that could have sued the hospital for gross negligence (Which she more or less had admitted to) to recoup their payout.

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OK, it's been mentioned before but no I am seeing it, Alex is really packing on the pounds. I know it was mentioned earlier that he was a fat kid but is this a story line or is Justin just getting fat?

Justin's weight tends to fluctuate, and it looks like he may not have lost what he put on over break yet, but he's nowhere close to fat in my opinion.
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