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Athena

S04.E16: Borrowing Your Enemy's Arrow

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Definitely didn’t need to see Tank again. And seeing Bay apologize to him and hearing him whine about how hard his life is now made my blood boil, but I do think it’s in character for Bay to get caught up on how he’s feeling and feel guilty over it. She does have a tendency to value other people’s needs or feelings over her own. Like her stupidly thinking Daphne’s future was more important than her own when she decided to take the fall for her. 

 

But thank God for Regina actually giving Bay good advice and telling Bay to let it go and that she doesn’t need to fix things with Tank. Sometimes Regina can be a little clueless, especially when it comes to Bay, but I thought she was spot on here.

 

I do wish they hadn’t ended things with Tank on such a self-pitying note though because I honestly don’t care how he’s handling the fallout from sexually assaulting his ex-girlfriend.

 

So John has been basically cheating the government for years and it finally caught up with him...and we're supposed to feel bad for him? No thank you. 

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The episode discussion thread is really hopping with activity, huh?

Meh. Boring episode. Not as bad as last week's fake-ass Mexico extravaganza, but still. I don't know who finds Daphne's endless boy mini-dramas entertaining.

The only bright spot was the Tank sighting. Mostly because I think Max Adler consistently does a good job with the character. And yeah, I feel bad for Tank. I don't think he raped Bay and at this point I wonder if Bay even thinks he did. Her regret at coming forward and ruining his life was palpable.

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I have to wonder why they brought Tank back like that.  What was the purpose?

 

And why give Bay a love interest that is Travis's friend?  Why, show, why?

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I do feel bad for Tank. He made one mistake and he is now stigmatized forever. I don't think he deserves it. I liked that he didn't seem to blame Bay, even while she was blaming herself. Her incessant need to be liked/loved is just so sad to me. Knowing exactly where its coming from makes it more difficult to watch because I feel like that should make it easier to get over but that's not the case.

 

I am not a John fan, but I completely agreed with him that the business manager is responsible for this mess. He was supposed to be the professional. I don't care what John asked for, I don't care how pushy he was. He made me do it is never an excuse for anyone's behavior.

 

I hope everything works out for Melody and Gabe. I really like them together.

 

Leaping Lizards, Bay's new guy is HOT! That is all.

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This Tank story still bothers me. Without getting into the rape debate again, I definitely don't think he deserved what he got. When he said he was sorry, I was surprised he didn't say "I'm sorry I met you." Relieved he made it out of the episode alive. I was halfway expecting Bay to find out about his inevitable suicide by the end of the episode.

Regina got on my nerves tonight. She all but ignores Bay 99% of the time but she's really pushy about this Tank thing. Bay is justified for feeling the way she does but Regina just keeps pushing.

Don't trust Bay's new dude. Because Bay can't have nice things.

I'm not here for Gabe and Melody. His excitement about having a little patchwork family was off putting.

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Definitely didn’t need to see Tank again. And seeing Bay apologize to him and hearing him whine about how hard his life is now made my blood boil, but I do think it’s in character for Bay to get caught up on how he’s feeling and feel guilty over it. She does have a tendency to value other people’s needs or feelings over her own. Like her stupidly thinking Daphne’s future was more important than her own when she decided to take the fall for her. 

 

But thank God for Regina actually giving Bay good advice and telling Bay to let it go and that she doesn’t need to fix things with Tank. Sometimes Regina can be a little clueless, especially when it comes to Bay, but I thought she was spot on here.

 

I do wish they hadn’t ended things with Tank on such a self-pitying note though because I honestly don’t care how he’s handling the fallout from sexually assaulting his ex-girlfriend.

 

So John has been basically cheating the government for years and it finally caught up with him...and we're supposed to feel bad for him? No thank you. 

I'm glad they brought Tank back and the things you are saying are part of it. This was not a black and white thing. It never has been. But, to some, Tank is just rapist now. That's a terrible position for someone to be in with a situation as murky as this one. Tank went out of his way to own up to his part in all of this. He did not whine. He didn't want to talk about it at all. Bay made him. In a lesser show, this storyline would just be laser focus the woman side of it. But, this incident  effective two peoples lives. Not just one. It is also not something that you just wrap up. It does and it should have consequences past a tidy resolution. Tank goes away. He's a character they invested a bunch of time in. He doesn't need to be casts off like Saved by the Bell girlfriend of Zack Morris. I appreciate the effort to not just cast the man away. A catch up down the line showing him slowly building his life back would be enough for me. I hope anyway. I hope to god he doesn't take his life from this. I don't want that for him and I don't want that guilt put on Bay.

 

Shallow note but Daphne was looking GOOD this week. I'm sure it will make some happy that they got another bland hottie for Bay to date but I'm not interested. I actually appreciate the Tank types (the not so obvious good looking guy) with some substance. It goes both ways of course but we are basically looking at the girls dating lives here.

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What the... I just... There are over TWO MILLION PEOPLE IN KANSAS CITY, WRITERS. There is no need to make the characters only interact with a handful of people and have anyone new they meet be already connected to them and keep bumping into the same people over and over. Sheesh.

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I was halfway expecting Bay to find out about his inevitable suicide by the end of the episode.

Season ain't over yet. Although, that would be a lot to put on Bay since she always gets the short end of the stick. It'd be nice for her not to feel guilty about things for a change.

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I'm wondering if Bay will tell the UMKC administration to allow Tank back into school - that he didn't really rape her - that the sex was consensual. Of course, this would make her out to be a liar and worse.

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I am not a John fan, but I completely agreed with him that the business manager is responsible for this mess. He was supposed to be the professional. I don't care what John asked for, I don't care how pushy he was. He made me do it is never an excuse for anyone's behavior.

 

I agree with this.  Even if John said "find all the loopholes you can", "make it work somehow", "I want to keep as much money as I can" etc, that doesn't give the business manager (?) the go ahead to be illegal.  He's supposed to say, "this is what I can do (within the law) and that's it" and maybe explain why if John keeps pushing.

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I am as befuddled as the recap as to how Mingo's parents were heading to meet his girlfriend and her parents and "my girlfriend's name is Daphne and she is deaf" or something similar didn't trigger "oh crap, that's John Kennish's kid."  Or, am I supposed to believe Mingo didn't mention her name or the fact that she is deaf before inviting his parents?  Or, that John's years-long relationship with his business manager never included spending money for his newly found deaf kid, Daphne.  

Edited by Seelouis
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... or that they didn't recognize the Kennish's address.

They said they didn't realize it until they got the address from Mingo and by then they were on their way. 

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Ahhh...   I missed that.  But they were on their way before getting the address?  Were they just driving randomly hoping it was the right direction?

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Ahhh...   I missed that.  But they were on their way before getting the address?  Were they just driving randomly hoping it was the right direction?

 

Maybe Mingo didn't give it to  them and they kept asking and asking, and he only responded when they were all, "we're in the car, what's the damn address?"

 

Cause it was kind of weird.  They could have had them not realize the address was the same and realized it when they pulled in the driveway.

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I did really like, and it was noted in the recap, that there's no really right answer in the Kennish financial difficulties. John pushed Mr. Shimingo further than he should have let himself be pushed. But at no point did he say, no stop. John was a celebrity and it is, on a much smaller scale, how so many celebs find themselves in financial trouble. Celebs surround themselves with "yes" men and Mingo Sr. was a "yes" man. I like it. 

 

I didn't like Daphne confessing to Mingo she and that guy kissed. In the normal (non Switched at Birth) world, there would be no way of Mingo ever finding out and Daphne just told him to ease her own conscience. That's not fair to Mingo. Mingo shouldn't have to live with that knowledge. Daphne should just have to stew in her own juices about it. (In the real world that's how it should work to my mind and the mind of many advice columnists.  In the SaB world we all know that the Season Finale will have international audiology guy showing up in KC, probably right after she accepts Mingo's marriage proposal). 

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I may have misunderstood, but when Daphne invited Mingo and his parents, I thought she was talking about an event at the Kennish house that was more of a party with many people invited.  I'd have to rewatch the episode to know for sure, but didn't she say something about grilling their "annual" ribs?  Instead it was an uncomfortable event with just the three couples, not even Toby or Bay were in attendance.  

 

There were so many things wrong with this episode I would waste too much of my time pointing out all of them.  

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"There were so many things wrong with this episode I would waste too much of my time pointing out all of them"

Copy that. Didn't expect to clear out my DVR list last night, but not only axe Switched at Birth, but Chasing Life and Castle, as well.

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Can Melody make Gabe get rid of his girl hair as consolation for baby-tizing her?  Do we need Tara Ariano, Wig Cop, on the job?  This ep was such an ugh but I really just want to talk about his luxurious girl hair.  Oh, and Nyle, the deaf actor playing Garrett.  He's dreamy.  Emmett, who?  Bring on Barrett.  Oh, and how long until we find out what Mr. Buns and Guns was doing at spring break without Daphne?  Probably something. Just saying. 

Edited by Trixieagogo
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I agree with those on Gabe and his hair. I assume they've only been together a year or so? As Melody mentioned that "50 is the new 40" I presume there's a 10-15 year age difference here - I guess I can understand the marriage but a possible two-for-one special adoption plan? With young children? So he can have the ideal biracial, multi-ethnic family he's always wanted? They already have a show for that *cough*The Fosters*cough* Run Melody!

 

I think the writers have realized that with Daphne's magical lipreading abilities, her fondness for hearing dudes and a lack of Emmett - they have to have Bay romantically interested in/by nearly every deaf guy in KC. That has to be it because NO ONE signs on this show anymore. I don't profess to be an expert but aside from Melody's storyline and Travis/Emmett scenes, everything is simcom and it just looks lazy. When Mingo met the Kennishes - Kathryn commented on how his "signing" was really good. How!? He barely signs 1/5th of a sentence at a time. Regina doesn't sign anymore, Toby's interactions with Daphne are limited now and with the girls out of the house, neither do the Kennishes.

 

I enjoyed the aspect of Mexican Sign Language in the previous episode, but it was all caught up in romance drama. One of the best aspects of this show was learning more about the deaf culture and the silent interactions and they barely have that anymore - disappointing.

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I am not a John fan, but I completely agreed with him that the business manager is responsible for this mess. He was supposed to be the professional. I don't care what John asked for, I don't care how pushy he was. He made me do it is never an excuse for anyone's behavior.

Absolutely.  John's attitude about people bending the rules was a bit shady and he can be pretty pig headed, but that is in no way an excuse for his business manager to go so far.  As far as I could tell, Mr. Shamingo was in a fiduciary role with regard to John and had a duty to advise him.  If what John wanted required illegality, he should have said so.  It was clear that John was not aware that it was actually illegal and when he was advised by his new manager, he immediately made reparations.  I don't think John would have gone ahead if he knew it was actual fraud. 

 

Oh, and yeah... Bay's new love interest is HOT.

Edited by RachelKM
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Gabe while cute does look like a wookie.

 

Garrett is good looking, but not feeling a huge amount of chemistry between Bay and him yet. I think she has more chemistry with Travis, but they aren't going to go there yet. The writers are going to milk the Travis/Bay/Emmett thing for awhile. I have no patience for Emmett making Travis swear that he won't make a play for her. It's really none of his business now.

 

We got two Bay/Regina scenes. That's good stuff!

 

I like Toby's current hair cut.

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There isn't a human being in this entire world with the last name of "Schimingo".

Google thinks there was at least one at one time.  Don't know how accurate it is or if there were ever any others.

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I think the writers have realized that with Daphne's magical lipreading abilities

 

On this note - and maybe y'all have talked about this here before and I missed it, apologies! - but her ability to lip read WHILE WALKING SIDE BY SIDE FACING FORWARD is a constant source of annoyance to me. Why are they always blocking her in walk-and-talks where she's not even looking at mouths and yet catching everything?! It takes me out of the moment and into a little rage stroke every time. I AM NOT A CRACKPOT, lip reading can't be done without looking at someone's lips.

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I felt badly for Tank. I used to love Emmett and now I can't stand seeing him on screen. Really liked how Melody included Travis in the comment about how the babies would be his siblings too. I liked having more Bay/Regina.

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YAY! the more Nyle DiMarco on my TV the better. He is seriously the hottest guy I have seen in a loooong time.

And of course they had to spoil the first date for Bay....UGH! I was fuming, thinking that if that was all she got, few nice minutes and a peck on the lips from the hot guy, I'd quit. 

Can we please have Bay be happy at least till the end of this season, and let Daphney for once face the consequences? Bring on the Mexico guy on some lame excuse and let her squirm! cue in evil laugh.

 

oh and did I mention Nyle is H-O-T?

Edited by vavera4ka
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Creator Lizzie Weiss tweeted that their writer's room was split on the final ending of Monday's episode and had an alternate ending they debated filming. She had some interesting comments on it:

The alternate ending had Bay asking Toby to check on Tank because she felt he needed a friend, though she knew she couldn't be that friend. The writers in favor felt it was an unexpected turn and realistic for Bay with their history and her character to want to help somehow. After much debate, I broke the tie. It was painful for her to accept that sometimes things cannot be fixed and he isn't her responsibility. Many felt that Tank seemed almost suicidal and we felt she would be concerned and find a way to keep her distance yet throw him a lifeline. That ending, while arguably more surprising, tipped it too far in a direction that might have given a message to women that we didn't intend. Bottom line: it was a very delicate story as we had to balance being truthful to Bay & Tank, while also v careful about the subject matter.

 

 

I'm glad they didn't go there. I think they made the right choice for the right reason.

Edited by taragel
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It's really interesting that they thought they delivered a clear message that Tank is not Bay's responsibility, because I didn't get that at all from what they showed. I thought they were saying: "Boo Hoo, Tank's life is ruined and Bay is doing great! Isn't that terrible? And even Bay knows it's wrong, but the whole world is sympathetic to her and not to him! Isn't that terrible!? Rape is not a big deal for women, it's the guys who really suffer the consequences."

 

If they meant to convey something else, I say they failed.

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It's really interesting that they thought they delivered a clear message that Tank is not Bay's responsibility, because I didn't get that at all from what they showed. I thought they were saying: "Boo Hoo, Tank's life is ruined and Bay is doing great! Isn't that terrible? And even Bay knows it's wrong, but the whole world is sympathetic to her and not to him! Isn't that terrible!? Rape is not a big deal for women, it's the guys who really suffer the consequences."

 

If they meant to convey something else, I say they failed.

 

         Well, they had Regina flat-out say that Tank and his problems weren't her responsibility and Bay's driving off at the end without further attempts to help or feel guilty made me feel like she did accept that in the end. Weiss had previously tweeted the following, so they get there's a wide variety of interpretations/feelings about this: "Some of you are upset that we 'made Tank out to be a rapist' and others are upset that we 'apologized for Tank'; there is no consensus and... no agenda on our part except to open up a dialogue to help prevent this in the real world."

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I saw Bay with a load of guilt that will never leave her, knowing only that there is nothing she can do to make it up to Tank that his life is ruined.

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I actually was heartened to see that they had Regina tell Bay explicitly to move on, and that this was one situation where her help was not the help that was needed.

 

I like that Bay's moving from a Frida phase to a possible Dali phase....

 

I haven't been a great Mingo fan, but I found him pretty appealing this episode. 

 

And, yeah, Nyle is hot. 

 

I can't stand the adoption storyline. MM's acting was just OTT for me this episode. 

 

I did love Kathryn telling John that Mingo's welcome in the house... Kathryn had some great moments in a weak-sauce episode.

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I saw Weiss tweeting about the matter and when a show runner has to publicly defend their storyline, that’s usually a bad sign. I didn’t love seeing Tank again or the direction they took the story, but I agree that the alternate ending would have been way worse so thank God for small favors.

 

My problem with Tank’s reappearance is that while he didn’t come right out and accuse Bay of ruining his life, there was definite resentment in his voice when he spoke to her in the restaurant, like he blames her for not keeping her mouth shut and now he's stuck working a crappy job because of her. And then when they were talking out in the parking lot, even though he apologized, it seemed obvious to me that he was feeling more sorry for himself than he was for what he did to her. Tank, and by extension the writers, made it all about him, and while not surprising, I found that pretty disappointing. 

 

And I've seen people commenting that Bay ruined Tank’s life and it boggles my mind that someone can think that way, because Tank ruined Tank's life, but that’s exactly why I think bringing Tank back as a sympathetic sad-sack was a terrible idea. The public already tends to prioritize rapists’ futures over their victims’ well-being (remember the media’s response to the Steubenville rape case where reporters mourned the tragic loss of the boys' promising futures... boys who had gang raped an unconscious girl and then bragged and laughed about it on social media), and we didn’t need SAB reinforcing that trend. 

 

So while I appreciated that (some of) the writers were aware enough to realize that having Bay shoulder any responsibility for Tank’s feelings or well-being by sending him a "lifeline" sent a bad message to survivors, I still think they ended up sending a whole other bad message about how the real tragedy in all this was the loss of Tank’s future. Because the show seems to be saying that Bay's perfectly fine now, she apparently suffered no repercussions from her assault other than the loss of her jerk of a boyfriend, and she was able to move on, but it's Tank who has the hard road ahead of him now because he can't move on. He can't go to school, or get a good job, or date.... he'll forever be labeled a rapist, and isn't that tragic?  

 

But I do give them credit for the scene between Regina and Bay because I think it’s pretty common for a victim to feel guilt when they know their assailant, and it is in character for Bay, but Regina firmly pointing out that Tank is not Bay’s responsibility and that she does not have to fix things for him was the one thing I liked about the storyline.

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I don't think Bay's perfectly fine. I'm waiting to see how she responds to Garrett when things get a lot more hot and heavy.

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Oh, hey Toby! I always love when this show remembers that your a thing that exists! 

 

Bay needs a nice, new, hot love interest for a little while, so I am down with this. The Tank stuff...not so sure. 

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I don't think Bay's perfectly fine. I'm waiting to see how she responds to Garrett when things get a lot more hot and heavy.

 

I don't think Bay and Garrett will get that far but it would be interesting to see how she'd handle it. As much as I wish Garrett and his beautiful face will stick around, I think they're building towards Bay/Travis so I imagine Garrett will be out of the way soon enough.... which is a shame because he's so pretty. 

Edited by Everleigh

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It could be iffy with Travis too -- he's a good friend who may want to push her further, which could bring up flashbacks too.

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I really like Travis with Mary Beth so I wouldn't like to see Bay/Travis -- but anything is better than a repeat of Bay and Emmett. He has turned into such a jerk that I don't want him anywhere near Bay.

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And I've seen people commenting that Bay ruined Tank’s life and it boggles my mind that someone can think that way, because Tank ruined Tank's life, but that’s exactly why I think bringing Tank back as a sympathetic sad-sack was a terrible idea. The public already tends to prioritize rapists’ futures over their victims’ well-being (remember the media’s response to the Steubenville rape case where reporters mourned the tragic loss of the boys' promising futures... boys who had gang raped an unconscious girl and then bragged and laughed about it on social media), and we didn’t need SAB reinforcing that trend.

 

I do agree with this about the prioritization of rapists' futures over victims, but I think with the portrayal of Tank it was a little different. His remorse came across as real to me and not just self-pitying.  I experienced it as (sort of heavy-handed) preaching to college-age guys about avoiding the scenario Tank had been in because the consequences are huge. I don't know how many college guys watch the show, it's probably a more female audience and thus may have come across as tone-deaf.

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Because the show seems to be saying that Bay's perfectly fine now, she apparently suffered no repercussions from her assault other than the loss of her jerk of a boyfriend, and she was able to move on, but it's Tank who has the hard road ahead of him now because he can't move on.

 

Well, all of that does appear to be the case. Bay does seem fine, we can't see any mental repercussions for her, she's moved on and is flirting with guys, focusing on her art, and so on. Tank's future is ruined far more than hers.

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