Jump to content
saoirse

S01.E07: Savior

Recommended Posts

So [shia] has her feelings of guilt, but at the end after Quinn and Rachel cover for her, what does she want? To go straight back to work. Guess she didn't feel that bad after all.

 

I noticed that too.  She began the scene lecturing them on getting away with murder and then asked to go back to work.  You participated in someone's death like a day ago, Shia.  You're ready to get back at it?  Anyway, I don't think she's fired but I do think she has the potential to snap without supervision.

 

I totally thought Mary's sister was going to expose the letter as fake, live on TV and things would spiral.  This was another interesting route to use.

 

I found it weird Jeremy was disappointed that his hookup with Rachel was just grief sex when recently he didn't want to start anything with her at all?  At least he wasn't too much of a dick about it and changed the subject.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I think maybe what happened was she hugged Adam and sniped at Grace competitively....

 

and then "woke up" to herself. It's the only way it makes sense.

 

I just seem to remember those "look at me"tears in High school... used beautifully in an episode of "The Good Wife" this season too, Diane fired someone for weeping in a dramatic way.

 

I hate Jay now. His little speech to Shia and "We're good." Yuck.

 

Chet is oozy but he doesn't pretend he's not. Jay otoh pretends, and that's far worse.

Edited by lucindabelle
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

And Jeremy, what a jerk. I know that Rachel is a consenting adult and wasn't intoxicated when he came on to her, but she was clearly distraught and needed a friend, not a f*** ('Everyone wants me for a friend or a f***, and I'm only a Junior). And when he said "I know you better than you think I do," I wanted to throw something at the TV. He 'knew' she needed sex at that moment, not someone to listen to her and simply be there for her so that maybe she could stop pacing around with crazy eyes?

But was talking things out really what Rachel needed?  I don't know that it was. She didn't seem open to Adam's attempts to reassure her the next night. I don't think Rachel knows what she needs.  Well, actually, I do think she knows what she needs and that's to be away from Everlasting but she can't escape.  I don't know if she could leave even if Quinn let her.  

 

Sex can be therapeutic.  Sex can be a way of getting out of your own head.  It can be a way to release tension.  We've seen her turn to masturbation before. 

 

Yeah, I actually liked the two of them together in this episode. But the network executive? "People should die more often." and "She was a black girl, right?" I couldn't figure out that last line was racist or he was just trying to picture who Mary was.

The show cut away right after he made the comment so I'm not sure what they were going for.  I thought they were going to show him being dismissive of the death of a black woman because he didn't think the audience would care so much but then show him getting more worried once he realized it was the white mother.  I thought it'd be reminiscent of the way they spoke of the black contestants in the first episode.  (And a commentary on media/society where the death or disappearance of a white woman or child would get far more coverage than that of a black woman or child.)

 

But like I said, they cut away so who knows what the intent was.

Edited by Irlandesa
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I thought he was saying (hoping?) it was a contestant who hadn't made a deep impression yet.

Losing the mom would have been the worst if it looked like their fault.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Well done UnReal!  I loved this episode and think this show is stellar.  This is a dark satire and not to be taken seriously.  

 

We won't hear anymore about Shia or Mary's death.  They will move on and continue more outrageous plot developments. 

 

IIIRC, Quinn said to Shia, "you quit" and then dismissed her.  

 

I like Jeremy and assume their relationship will continue in some way.  Clearly Rachael and Adam are heating up so we will see more of them. 

 

I like Chet and Quinn together and glad to see he is leaving his wife so we will get more of it.  

 

This is my favorite show!  

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

Slowly but surely Chet's been progressing and I actually liked him tonight. He's still Chet, so I'm sure I'll be discusted by something he says or does by next week but he has been having some nicer moments lately.

 

I have loved sloppy, frowsy, skeevy Chet from day one. He looks like an unmade bed but he's really smart and savvy beneath it all. I love that we were able to see that--it would have been easy to make him a buffoon. I've never seen the actor before--he is wonderful. The acting is great in this show--Rachel, Quinn, Adam, all stellar.

 

I don't know if I'm supposed to like Jeremy or not. He does kind of support Rachel, but he's cheating on his fiancee all over the place and then going back to her and he tried to cheat last week but attacked Rachel when he stopped it. He's just as messed up as some of the others I think, but trying to act like he's better.

 

Jeremy is  a douchebag of the first water. He doesn't know what he wants, so he's prepared to hurt two women who care for him and have their own shit to deal with so he can get his rocks off. I hate him.

 

Shia and Jay's scenes were awesome. You can see that he's smart enough to see how the game is played. He has more native talent for it than Shia will ever have. Shia had a will to succeed and the raw desperation to do whatever it took. She was probably a high achiever in school and a teacher's pet. You can see the hurt in her face when Quinn doesn't acknowledge her efforts. So she went further and further out on that limb. But Jay has a real killer instinct. He was cold as ice.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

I wasn't sure how the show (the fake Everlasting-- not the show Unreal) could come back from this but Rachel really saved it.

 

My only nitpick was that Rachel, Adam and Mary's sister were talking about the fake letter in front of the crew and while she was still miked up. Umm, please don't discuss the criminal conspiracy where you could be recorded guys.

 

But again, that's minor. I'm stunned by Rachel's ability to produce her way out of this.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sure we are done with the Mary story, so this won't come up. I am sure ex husband can easily prove Mary didn't invite him and the note was a forgery. Phone records are a real thing. This episode annoyed me to no end.

Last week when they brought him in, I think he was under the impression Mary knew he was coming. They could always say that Mary asked them to bring him in so she could get closure, but then you have the footage of her clearly being surprised so yeah. Those loose ends on that are annoying. Biggest loose end is: shouldn't they be able to tell by the handwriting that Mary didn't write the note?

And that is where the story lost me. One comparison of Mary's handwriting and that on the note invalidates the whole thing. No one, NO ONE! Is going to accept that note on face value.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

And that is where the story lost me. One comparison of Mary's handwriting and that on the note invalidates the whole thing. No one, NO ONE! Is going to accept that note on face value.

 

Her sister will swear in court that it's her handwriting when she's "under stress" and will do anything to keep Lilly Belle away from her out-of-control father.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

I am bringing this over from another message board. Thoughts?

 

cyclops999 • an hour ago
If Rachel was gonna sell her soul and not turn Shia into the cops, then she shouldn't have sold it so cheaply. What she had in that moment is a little thing called leverage. The whole show was going up in smoke if she opened her mouth. She could've had all charges and financial damages against her dropped and gotten out from under Quinn's blackmail. And then she could've left the show, if that's what she really wants as she claims, or demanded a promotion and a big raise if she loves the taste of blood too much to leave. She should've either done the right thing and gone to the cops or at the very least gotten maximum value (or any value at all really) in exchange for doing the wrong thing. How hard would it have been for her to tell Quinn, "You're helping Shia get away with murder, but you think you're gonna continue holding my feet to the fire over a crashed car? I don't think so."

Major missed opportunity, just saying!

 

MJHanrahan • 7 hours ago
Seeing as the show is now two contestants down from where they thought they would be at this point in the season (Mary + Maya, wow this show isn't great to people who's name starts with M), I'm guessing the producers are going to throw a lot of money at Britney - the original planned Villain of the season of Everlasting - to make a surprise return to the show.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

Totally agree with all of this.  I know he's not objectively the worst person on the show, but I've lost so much patience for him.  At least the other jerks among the Everlasting crew know they're jerks.  

That's one of the things that really bugs about Jeremy. He's trying to set himself as above the rest of the crew as the only "good" person there. Maybe it's because his naive fiance is around and he's trying to impress her. Or he's just a  Nice Guy asshole.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

IIIRC, Quinn said to Shia, "you quit" and then dismissed her.

Shia was trying to argue for herself to stay because she still had Maya, where Quinn interjected "who quit."

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

I gotcha. I just thought this show was filmed in real time. It seemed a bit rushed.it seemed like the Mary stuff was rushed. What was the time frame.

 

Yes, Everlasting films/airs in real time, I was just responding to how realistic it was to go back on the air so quickly. If The Bachelor filmed in real time, I doubt they'd go back on so quickly, but there's really no direct comparison.

 

I am bringing this over from another message board. Thoughts?

 

cyclops999 • an hour ago

If Rachel was gonna sell her soul and not turn Shia into the cops, then she shouldn't have sold it so cheaply. What she had in that moment is a little thing called leverage. The whole show was going up in smoke if she opened her mouth. She could've had all charges and financial damages against her dropped and gotten out from under Quinn's blackmail. And then she could've left the show, if that's what she really wants as she claims, or demanded a promotion and a big raise if she loves the taste of blood too much to leave. She should've either done the right thing and gone to the cops or at the very least gotten maximum value (or any value at all really) in exchange for doing the wrong thing. How hard would it have been for her to tell Quinn, "You're helping Shia get away with murder, but you think you're gonna continue holding my feet to the fire over a crashed car? I don't think so."

Major missed opportunity, just saying!

 

MJHanrahan • 7 hours ago

Seeing as the show is now two contestants down from where they thought they would be at this point in the season (Mary + Maya, wow this show isn't great to people who's name starts with M), I'm guessing the producers are going to throw a lot of money at Britney - the original planned Villain of the season of Everlasting - to make a surprise return to the show.

Rachel couldn't use the note idea for leverage, because the network had to believe the note was real. Chet believed it was real too, I think. Quinn couldn't have dropped the charges or given her a raise without them being in on it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
[shia]'s gonna crack.

 

Definitely. I'm really looking forward to this, NGL. I liked the scenes between Shia and Jay, especially in the car when he told her that friends don't tell friends real secrets. He's right, in a way, especially since the more people Shia tells, the greater the liability for everyone. Someone needed to reinforce that to her. I laughed when Jay got blown off by Chet. Oh, Jay You'll never get your quid pro quo there. Wise up, dude.

 

Rachel needs to stop it with Jeremy. He's gross for going after her when he's engaged, but she's just as gross for being a willing participant. And I didn't find it sweet that Rachel crept into bed with Adam the next night (? not sure about the timing there) for a cuddle. Grief sex with the ex didn't work, so let's see if the next guy can make her feel better. Yuck.

 

This also shows why Chet is such a good executive producer. He knows when to bow and scrape to his superiors.

 

Chet's an asshole and a jerk, but he knows his business. We needed to see this.

 

But the network executive? "People should die more often." and "She was a black girl, right?" I couldn't figure out that last line was racist or he was just trying to picture who Mary was.

 

I think that was just to show how out of the day-to-day loop he was. He looked at all the footage, but he wasn't paying attention to details, just the larger story.

 

covered up a homicide but who won't speak about it ever again? Just like Quinn and Rachel.

 

Quinn: "If you need to talk, I'm here."
Rachel: "We'll never speak of this again."
Quinn: "Probably not."

 

Loved that.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

Her sister will swear in court that it's her handwriting when she's "under stress" and will do anything to keep Lilly Belle away from her out-of-control father.

Until the ex comes up with a verifiable sample of her real handwriting and thr angle is lost. If he has a real shark for a lawyer, she won't let that go unchallenged.

Share this post


Link to post

Another thing I liked is that no matter how much

Quinn is self serving and a complete hard ass on the outside, you can see she DOES care for Rachel and believes in her - even if it's for totally f*cked up reasons. The relationship between Quinn and Rachel is so twisted and has multiple layers and I love it. The actresses work so well together on screen every week and both deserve major praise. On of the most interesting relationships I've seen on TV in a longtime.

The part where Quinn and the network boss smooth things over - only for him to threaten her job the minute she walks away rang so true. I can absolutely believe that would have happened.

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post

Will they even go to court or will the whole plot just go away? Going forward how will season 2 top season 1? I've said it from day 1 but this show is Emmy worthy. The show and the cast work so well together. I have yet to watch a show where Shiri does not have chemistry with her co workers.

Edited by earlbny
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Until the ex comes up with a verifiable sample of her real handwriting and thr angle is lost. If he has a real shark for a lawyer, she won't let that go unchallenged.

The only thing I can think of is - they already have the girls on tape painting him as a abusive psycho and how Mary told them how afraid she was. They have proof he's violent from him punching Adam on the show. They have his past abuse of Lily Belle (broke her arm) - he doesn't come out looking like the best guardian for the child. It would be a nasty fight in court but I think it's possible the sister could win a case.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Rachel was not drunk.  She was not in leave of her senses.  She was naturally upset but she was in control enough to wheel and deal and do damage control.  They both saw someone die/dead.  And you know what some people do in times like that? Somtimes they cry. Sometimes they scream.  Sometimes they sleep. Sometimes they zone out and sometimes they fuck. 

 

I get hating the decision but reducing Rachel to anything less than a conscious, active participant when that's exactly what she was makes her weaker than she is.

 

My favorite moment of the episode actually came from Chet when he and Quinn were about to talk to the network and he told her something to the effect of "keep it upbeat but you know...there's a death."

 

IMO, Craig Bierko is an actually attractive actor but they didn't want an attractive actor so he gained weight and was made unkept to fit the role. 

 

Wow, I just googled him and he really is a good looking guy!! They sure got him ready for this part!

Edited by nutty1
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

When the network exec was told that Mary died and he said, "She was a black girl, right?" I think it was just a way to show the audience that this guy had probably never watched a single episode of Everlasting and knew nothing about the contestants. There's really no way to confuse with a "black girl" with Mary and he can't be excused for mistaking one blonde for another - he just didn't watch his own show. I don't think it was meant to show any sort of racism.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Her sister will swear in court that it's her handwriting when she's "under stress" and will do anything to keep Lilly Belle away from her out-of-control father.

 

Yes. I TOTALLY bought that she knew it was fake from the beginning and in fact would not have bought it if she didn't. She has an end result in mind, whatever it takes. I'm sure she doesn't suspect for a moment that the network messed with Mary's meds, but even if she did, the reality is now, in this moment, she needs to keep the little girl safe, not have a long drawn-out trial that could last for years with the girl in the system perhaps in the meantime.

Until the ex comes up with a verifiable sample of her real handwriting and thr angle is lost. If he has a real shark for a lawyer, she won't let that go unchallenged.

 

I doubt it. He knows they have footage of him hauling off to hit Mary. Now that his abusiveness is documented he really hasn't a shot.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

And I didn't find it sweet that Rachel crept into bed with Adam the next night (? not sure about the timing there) for a cuddle. Grief sex with the ex didn't work, so let's see if the next guy can make her feel better. Yuck.

 

But she didn't go in there for a cuddle. She went in there because she couldn't stand lying in the grip truck alone after the day she had and had nowhere else to go. It's not like when she got into his bed, she pulled up close to him. She stayed at the farthest end of the bed and didn't say a word. She didn't try to cajole her way into his good graces. Adam had called her a monster earlier in the day and seemed genuinely upset with her, so Rachel had no reason to believe she'd be greeted with open arms. She was probably just praying that if she stayed quiet he'd put up with her being there instead of kicking her out.

The moment wasn't sweet because Rachel turned to Adam for comfort, it was sweet because of the compassion Adam showed Rachel.

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post

. Rachel was already planning to fake that video for Jezebel (I wonder how that site feels about being labeled a dupe for reality TV news) 

That wasn't a fake video, she was going to give them real footage of people telling the truth about Kirk so that he wouldn't end up profiting off this whole thing.

 

On what grounds could the ex husband sue. He has no stake in Mary's estate. The proceeds of the lawsuit would go to the daughter. I don't understand why the sister would go along with this utter stupidity. She needs to make sure her niece is taken care off. 

That's what the sister was trying to do. Keep her niece away from her abusive father. The ex-husband was not threatening to sue for Mary's money, he was threatening to sue the show for damages, and the show's lawyers were basically saying they were going to settle (suggested 400K) for his silence. But after how it played out, he's presumably not going to sue the show OR get custody of his daughter because of the note and, of course, tons of other clear evidence that he's abusive. 

 

I found it weird Jeremy was disappointed that his hookup with Rachel was just grief sex when recently he didn't want to start anything with her at all?  At least he wasn't too much of a dick about it and changed the subject.

I think Jeremy definitely wants Rachel back. She's the one who bailed on him originally and crushed him; that's why he's so hot and cold. He wants to be with her but he's trying to protect his own heart. They're both being pretty crappy to each other, I definitely don't feel bad for one more than the other. (Except obviously his fiance. Whoever she is.)

 

Also, I believe the network exec said "She was the black girl, right?" So, basically the way they think of the contestants, by a simple label. The blonde, the bitch, the black girl, etc. Just meant to demonstrate that they fit roles that simplify them as less than human beings, even in death. (Rather than being about race)

Edited by gesundheit
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I was surprised that no one thought to offer money (maybe that $400,000) to be put in a trust fund for the daughter, untouchable until she reaches 21.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Her sister will swear in court that it's her handwriting when she's "under stress" and will do anything to keep Lilly Belle away from her out-of-control father.

And why would this work? I swear your hand writing changes dramatically when you are stressed and the court believes me, why? If this were the real world and is not, losers get custody of their kids all the time. OJ got his kids.  A couple of sessions with a psychiatrist and supervised visits and Lilly moves in with daddy.  Stupid sister needs to sue for wrongful death. In the real world if sorry bid dad wants custody he will get it.

Share this post


Link to post

That wasn't a fake video, she was going to give them real footage of people telling the truth about Kirk so that he wouldn't end up profiting off this whole thing.

 

That's what the sister was trying to do. Keep her niece away from her abusive father. The ex-husband was not threatening to sue for Mary's money, he was threatening to sue the show for damages, and the show's lawyers were basically saying they were going to settle (suggested 400K) for his silence. But after how it played out, he's presumably not going to sue the show OR get custody of his daughter because of the note and, of course, tons of other clear evidence that he's abusive. 

 

 

 What are the ex husbands damages? He has no grounds to sue. He could sue on behalf of his daughter as could the sister who now has custody of Lilly.  Marys sister is an idiot for going along with Rachel. You think altered video and a suicide note that will mysteriously go missing will effect a custody decision. As I said earlier sorry horrible people get custody of their kids everyday. Some judge in Michigan threw kids in juvie cause they didn't want to see their dad. 

 

I think we should be glad its a TV show. In the real world dad eventually gets his bio kid.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 What are the ex husbands damages? He has no grounds to sue. He could sue on behalf of his daughter as could the sister who now has custody of Lilly.  Marys sister is an idiot for going along with Rachel. You think altered video and a suicide note that will mysteriously go missing will effect a custody decision. As I said earlier sorry horrible people get custody of their kids everyday. Some judge in Michigan threw kids in juvie cause they didn't want to see their dad. 

 

I think we should be glad its a TV show. In the real world dad eventually gets his bio kid.

I'm just talking about in-universe of this juicily hyperbolic Lifetime show, not gritty reality. He was suing the show. And Louise thought her actions would help the child, right or wrong. And yes, for sure, I'm glad it's a TV show! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

Also, I believe the network exec said "She was the black girl, right?" So, basically the way they think of the contestants, by a simple label. The blonde, the bitch, the black girl, etc. Just meant to demonstrate that they fit roles that simplify them as less than human beings, even in death. (Rather than being about race)

Yes, this was my read as well. He says "was she the black girl?" and Quinn says, very quietly, "the mom". As if it came alive to her in that moment that these women aren't people to them, just commodities, empty dresses with labels. I love how Quinn has these moments when her tough as nails mask slips.

Edited by Pepper Mostly
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

And that is where the story lost me. One comparison of Mary's handwriting and that on the note invalidates the whole thing. No one, NO ONE! Is going to accept that note on face value.

I thought, from the very brief shots we got of the note, that it was done on a computer with a handwriting font, so there would be no question about the authenticity of the handwriting.

 

I'm liking Chet a lot more. And I just went and googled Craig Bierko--he IS good-looking! I can't believe how much different he looks in this role.

 

I love this show; it's like a guilty pleasure. The grittiness and the surprise factor keep me watching. 

Edited by vali
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I loved the scene with Madison and Chet last night. She seemed like she's living in this bubble where everything is unicorns and rainbows and has no idea what's really going on.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

I have to say that I was surprised how much focus there was on the ex-husband's lawsuit and the show being shut down and only minimal concern about the criminal investigation.

Share this post


Link to post

I thought Rachel told the cop who first showed up on the scene that she had invited Kirk to the show, so I was shocked that the fake suicide note changed that story. Did I hallucinate that scene?

Share this post


Link to post

I have to say that I was surprised how much focus there was on the ex-husband's lawsuit and the show being shut down and only minimal concern about the criminal investigation.

I'm not. Why would the police look all that hard at a suicide case when the two family members involved (the ex and her sister) who had just seen her that day were supporting the story that Mary killed herself? Without knowledge that Shia tampered with Mary's meds, there is no criminal case and since it's tragically common for people with mental illnesses to stop taking their meds on their own, there's no reason that the police would suspect that on their own. And beyond that, creating conditions that might drive someone to take their own life isn't a criminal act because ultimately the choice to end one's life rests with the deceased. Any retribution against the show would have had to be settled through the civil courts.

I thought Rachel told the cop who first showed up on the scene that she had invited Kirk to the show, so I was shocked that the fake suicide note changed that story. Did I hallucinate that scene?

I don't remember the particulars of that scene, but unless Rachel told the cops that they invited Kirk without Mary's knowledge I don't think the note necessarily contradicts Rachel's statement. If she said the show invited Kirk, she could go back and say that she might that the show was the one who set up the meaning on Mary's behalf with her knowledge and consent.
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

Rachel is so interesting to me, mainly because all of her actions can be taken two different ways. You can say she forged the suicide letter to help Mary's daughter (what she probably tells herself), or you could say she did it to save the show. You could say that she kept Faith from coming out to protect her from scorn she`s not ready for, or you could say she did it to keep Faith on the show, as the audience was responding positively to her. 

 

Its up to the viewer to figure out how much is Rachel trying to do some good in an immoral place, and how much is her just being a manipulative monster who lets to pretend she is a shining beacon of morality. 

 

Its interesting stuff. But, I will never forget you had Adam and Rachel (maybe?) hook up, and we never saw it. Come on, show, you should know what the people want!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Rachel is so interesting to me, mainly because all of her actions can be taken two different ways. You can say she forged the suicide letter to help Mary's daughter (what she probably tells herself), or you could say she did it to save the show. You could say that she kept Faith from coming out to protect her from scorn she`s not ready for, or you could say she did it to keep Faith on the show, as the audience was responding positively to her. 

 

Its up to the viewer to figure out how much is Rachel trying to do some good in an immoral place, and how much is her just being a manipulative monster who lets to pretend she is a shining beacon of morality. 

 

Its interesting stuff. But, I will never forget you had Adam and Rachel (maybe?) hook up, and we never saw it. Come on, show, you should know what the people want!

 

I like the writing and the acting for the character for the same resaons. I think Rachel did write the letter and keep Faith for all those reasons. Like most people, she is not all evil or all good. She does a lot of things for the show, Quinn, and ultimately, her own selfish reasons. On the other hand, she clearly does feel for Faith and Mary's family. I think she is messed up and more manipulative than most people, but Rachel is more aware of her asshole actions than most. I don't think she takes pride in what she does, but she keeps doing it because she doesn't know what else she is without it. She is good at producing and running a show. She could employ her skills elsewhere if she had more self-esteem and resources.

 

I am still hoping for a hookup. I say this with love: I'm rooting for this crazy, messed up ship!

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post



 

When the network exec was told that Mary died and he said, "She was a black girl, right?" I think it was just a way to show the audience that this guy had probably never watched a single episode of Everlasting and knew nothing about the contestants.

Yes, this was my read as well. He says "was she the black girl?" and Quinn says, very quietly, "the mom". As if it came alive to her in that moment that these women aren't people to them, just commodities, empty dresses with labels. I love how Quinn has these moments when her tough as nails mask slips.

Yes, and that was my point. The women are all just labels to the show: the mom, the southern rodeo queen, the lawyer whose dad died, the hot Brazilian model, the one who got drunk at the pool party and had the solo date with Adam, and the black girl. So maybe Jay was right. The only way for a black contestant to be known for anything besides her race is to be NeNe Leaks or Omarosa and uphold racial stereotypes. I'm actually surprised Shamiqua is still on the show. Maybe they just forgot to eliminate her. I haven't seen Adam even speak to Shamiqua since the pilot, when she climbed out of the limo playing her violin. And even then, Quinn said that they can't have a black contestant be the first person Adam meets.

 

It's a relatively small thing, and it doesn't stop me from enjoying the show. But it does make a statement about race in America. And as a black woman, I can't help but notice these things.

 

 

I like the writing and the acting for the character for the same resaons. I think Rachel did write the letter and keep Faith for all those reasons. Like most people, she is not evil or all good. She does a lot of things for the show, Quinn, and ultimately hers selfish reasons. On the other hand, she clearly does feel for Faith and Mary's family. I think she is messed up and more manipulative than most people, but Rachel is more aware of her asshole actions than most. I don't think she takes pride in what she does, but she keeps doing it because she doesn't know what else she is without it. She is good at producing and running a show.

I agree. And once everything was resolved, and the show was up and running again, Rachel was still distraught over everything she'd witnessed and everything she'd done, followed by Jeremy "this isn't grief sex" going home with his fiancée and leaving her standing by herself. And I think that's why she went to Adam--not for a hook-up, but to be around someone who recognized how much BS was being flung around--and who had the courage to say it. Maybe she was being reminded that this show really was Satan's asshole.

 

Rachel slipping into Adam's bed without it being a sexual thing reminded me of her climbing into the shower with him--another non-sexual thing. Or so she said.

Edited by topanga
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

I'm beginning to see why Dr Fraud referred to Jeremy as a "trigger" - he runs hot and cold, he downplays or shames any emotion Rachel is having if it's not in line with whatever's going on in his pretty little head. And Rachel, conditioned to think of herself as a fuckup, feeds into this unhealthy cycle. I don't care if he wants Rachel back. He shouldn't have gotten engaged as protection against her -- look at how that worked out!

 

I have to hand it to the show, I didn't see the fake suicide note thing coming, so kudos. Shoulda known better, after all, Rachel is worth 5 Ferraris.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

Until the ex comes up with a verifiable sample of her real handwriting and thr angle is lost. If he has a real shark for a lawyer, she won't let that go unchallenged.

I'm sure the show had samples of Mary's handwriting that Rachel was able to imitate to some degree. It wouldn't fool an expert, but it doesn't really have to.  The idea was to make the ex-husband look bad so he'd stop making noise about sueing. With the note read on-air, he looks horrible and won't want to draw attention to himself by forcing the show to give him a copy of the note.

 

If the sister vouches for the note and vouches for the fact that Mary didn't seem to be taking her meds, I don't think the cops would dig much deeper about it.  I am surprised the sister wasn't more upset about the show bringing in the ex and about Mary stopping her meds while she was there.  They were super lucky she went along with it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Do we even know that the suicide note was handwritten?  Rachel's super smart, so unless she's a pretty decent forger and had access to several handwriting samples, I doubt she'd take a risk of showing a handwritten note to her sister. That's a big risk to take.   I know we get one look at the note, but even paused I couldn't tell if it was handwritten or done in a handwriting font.  

 

Granted, I have two brothers and I doubt I could tell either of their handwriting apart from something written by a stranger but I'm not as close to either of them as Louise seemed to be to Mary.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Rachel slipping into Adam's bed without it being a sexual thing reminded me of her climbing into the shower with him--another non-sexual thing. Or so she said.

I was reminded of the shower too, and then I wondered when was the last time Rachel had a shower. 

 

My brother has really distinctive, sloppy, hard to fake handwriting. Anyone who wanted to try would probably see a sample, think "Oh shit" and start typing. I would know instantly if it were faked. But since Louise went along with it and the cops have ruled it a suicide, the case is closed. As Rachel and Quinn said, they'll never speak of it again. The only person who would want the cops to investigate further would be the ex-husband and it doesn't benefit him to have them do so.

 

I was surprised Shia confessed. I also found it really sinister when the gay guy (I can't remember his name, sorry!) put the chair in front of the door and sat down - I didn't think he would hurt her, but he looked like he might in that moment.

 

I'm not interested in Quinn's love life at all.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Even if the show isn't to be taken that seriously, I still can't believe the police wouldn't be all over the suicide note, especially because it seemed to be found suspiciously later, rather than sooner when they were on the scene.

Share this post


Link to post

It was inside Lilly's teddy bear. Probably not something the cops even looked at. But Mary would know her daughter would eventually get the teddy bear back. It was the perfect place for Rachel to say she found the note.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

Even if the show isn't to be taken that seriously, I still can't believe the police wouldn't be all over the suicide note, especially because it seemed to be found suspiciously later, rather than sooner when they were on the scene.

 

I keep hearing people say this, but I honestly don't understand why.  Police don't investigate suicide cases with the same level of diligence that they would homicides.  They have more cases they can ever hope to give the attention they deserve, so the easy cases get wrapped up quickly.  And Mary's case was an really easy case.  She was a woman with a history of mental illness who both her sister and her ex-husband had seen behaving erratically the day of her death.  People from the crew called 911 before her time of death and there were multiple witnesses who saw her jump.  There's nothing in the evidence to would suggest that this wasn't a suicide, because it was a suicide.  So why would the cops care if the show forged a note from Mary if it's obvious that she wasn't murdered or a victim of manslaughter?  PR stunts aren't illegal.  They're tacky and tasteless, but they're not under the jurisdiction of the police.  

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post

There's no way to know what would happen if the ex's lawsuit moved forward but right now, it's not about the lawsuit, for Rachel and the sister, it's about cutting the ex off at his knees. 

 

The network wants to pay him to go away so he doesn't make this situation more of a PR bungle than it is.  Rachel and Quinn didn't want him to get the money so they were planning a hit piece on him which would make it harder for the network to pay off the dude because paying off the dead woman's abuser would look horrible. 

 

But if this got to the courts, I believe it'd be up to the jurors in a civil suit.  There, the ex would have much less of a stance even if he could prove the letter was faked.  Will a jury want to give money to an abuser?  Likely not.  And the show could take away the Mary's daughter aspect  by letting it be known they set up a trust fund for the daughter that the aunt would manage and the dad couldn't touch.

Edited by Irlandesa
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

My take on the handwritten note (they don't let them use computers on these shows) is that Mary's sister needs to "lose" that note immediately. As of the last episode, it is not evidence. If she loses it before it becomes evidence, there's no way to punish her. The ex can't really get money for a fake letter. He would have to try getting the DA to open a conspiracy case against the show. I doubt he even suspects the note is not in Mary's words.

 

I think Rachel was smart enough not to tell anyone what she did, even though some of the important people put 2 and 2 together. In the other story, Jay didn't want to hear Shia's confession because he was not told what she did and he didn't want to know. The fact that he could still have deniability (and denial) about what Shia did made him "okay" with her.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sure we are done with the Mary story, so this won't come up. I am sure ex husband can easily prove Mary didn't invite him and the note was a forgery. Phone records are a real thing. This episode annoyed me to no end.

Yup. I'm also sure that the show would have ended. That crap about 170 people relying on it for their livelihoods -- while true -- is a big so-what for Hollywood. It's not a year-round job, people jump from job to job all the time. No one could send a kid to college on a salary from a 10-week shooting schedule. So silly. Liability and bad PR are Big Scary Monsters for networks. The show would be pulled and replaced if someone the show cast killed themselves -- they ostensibly did mental health screenings, but failed. That failure would lead to the end of the show. And suicide is a huge wet blanket for romance. What, are the contestants just supposed to pretend it never happen and continue on with cocktail parties and silly dates? I don't think so. It would be different if none of the show had aired, and maybe then they could edit around it, but everyone watched Mary dating Adam the previous week.

Other than that, it was certainly entertaining. I'm glad the Mary stuff is over -- I'd like to see something a little lighter. The Pilot was funny, but there was nothing to laugh at in this episode.

Edited by Andromeda
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Rachel is so interesting to me, mainly because all of her actions can be taken two different ways. You can say she forged the suicide letter to help Mary's daughter (what she probably tells herself), or you could say she did it to save the show. You could say that she kept Faith from coming out to protect her from scorn she`s not ready for, or you could say she did it to keep Faith on the show, as the audience was responding positively to her.

 

It's definitely not a coincidence that Rachel's plan B (forging the note) also helped saved the show. I'm sure Rachel wants to believe she did it to protect Lily Belle and to keep Mary's scumbag ex from profiting off of her death, but there were other options. She could have gone forward with publishing that footage of the contestants repeating what Mary told them about her ex. She also could have told the police that Shia switched Mary's medication. The latter would have had Shia being the one facing legal trouble instead. Yes, that would have caused the show to be canceled, but that would have been a way for Rachel to get out. The fact that she chose not to use this as a way out for herself goes to show that Rachel doesn't hate working there as much as she acts like she does. 

 

I'm going back and forth on whether I liked this episode or not. It was definitely very entertaining, but I found the actions of some of the characters (mainly Rachel and Mary's sister) extremely disappointing and downright disgusting. Rachel ultimately chose to protect the show in the wake of a contestant's death that was the show's fault. But of course Rachel being Rachel wants to pretend forging the suicide note was purely about justice for Mary and Lily Belle.

 

I also hated that the sister went along with it. The ex-husband had a known history of violence against Mary and their daughter. She didn't need a fake suicide letter blaming the husband for Mary's  death to win custody of Lily. Her going along with that when she knew the producers invited the abusive husband to set without Mary's knowledge felt very contrived. I hope Mary's suicide is a storyline that will be revisited in the future. 

Edited by SourWolf
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

It's definitely not a coincidence that Rachel's plan B (forging the note) also helped saved the show. I'm sure Rachel wants to believe she did it to protect Lily Belle and to keep Mary's scumbag ex from profiting off of her death, but there were other options. She could have gone forward with publishing that footage of the contestants repeating what Mary told them about her ex. She also could have told the police that Shia switched Mary's medication. The latter would have had Shia being the one facing legal trouble instead. Yes, that would have caused the show to be canceled, but that would have been a way for Rachel to get out. The fact that she chose not to use this as a way out for herself goes to show that Rachel doesn't hate working there as much as she acts like she does. 

 

But she didn't have access to that footage anymore.  The lawyers started seizing all of their hard drives when they figured out what they were doing. And Rachel wouldn't magically be free if the show tanked.  She owes the show a lot of money for the damages and still has pending legal charges against her hanging over her head.  That's not just going to disappear if the show was cancelled. That was the point of Rachel pointing out that her Plan B was taken away from her after her breakdown.  She's indebted to either the production company and/or the network.  That's why she's living in a damn truck.  Her debt to the show is so high (I'm guessing it's at least $20k given that's the amount Rachel asked her mother for), she's making poverty level wages after they take their cut.  We saw her pay stub in either episode 2 or episode 3. It was below $200.  

 

I'm not saying Rachel's circumstances excuse her actions, but she has reasons to stay other than liking it. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
×