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OriginalCyn

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19 minutes ago, Darknight said:

Her mom chooses her music too. Starr needs better training. Sadly, I don't see her doing well without a better coach and better music. I think her coach was Adam's coach too. 

Yikes! Yeah, she needs to move to someone better. I will say though, I remember her "One Moment in Time" FS, and I wasn't into her vocals mixed with Whitney's.

I'm really rooting for Jason. I know he has no shot at gold because of King Nathan *insert eye roll*, but I want him to get that silver.

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7 minutes ago, Darknight said:

People should feel something when you skate. 

Converting music to form and emotion should definitely be regarded as a high form of art, and changing the perspective on a piece of music is the highest form of art in dance. Creating evocative shapes, and/or giving a lively performance. Living, breathing soul. Well, there's honestly little of it here. But as long as the judges keep rewarding nothing, it won't change.

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What the hell was that "You think it's all about a quad?" and how changing a sport takes a lifetime spot that just ran all about? It was obnoxious and if the intent was to make viewers feel for him or be impressed they failed in regards to that.

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16 minutes ago, displayname said:

342. At least Chen is smart enough to know that's nowhere close to what he can expect internationally.

The scoring for all 3 of them was kinda ridiculous, although who else in the current US men’s field can realistically compete with them for a world team spot? Props for Vincent getting properly scrutinized for URs. I hope he works super hard in the off season improving his general skating skills and spins, in addition to the jump technique. Given the UR issue, I’m miffed at the score difference between him and Jason. It should not be that great. I suppose part of it is Vincent getting “rewarded” for trying the most difficult elements, even if he rarely executes them cleanly.

On a purely aesthetic matter, WTF with Nathan’s free skate shirt?! Did he forget to pack it, and, like, find the nearest Runner’s World to get a replacement?

Edited by specialj67
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I don't get Chen's LP. It looks like it opens mysteriously and... then "??????" And then at the end he fires up with some "angry" expressions. Sure.

Zhou is just not interesting to watch either.

Brown is the best PCS skater here. But well.

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5 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

On a purely aesthetic matter, WTF with Nathan’s free skate shirt?! Did he forget to pack it, and, like, find the nearest Runner’s World to get a replacement?

They showed him earlier with another shirt that he was supposed to wear but there was something wrong with the fit, so he had to change.

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Just now, Ohwell said:

They showed him earlier with another shirt that he was supposed to wear but there was something wrong with the fit, so he had to change.

I actually liked this more than the one that was advertised. It fit the "modern" vibe the program was supposedly projecting.

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1 minute ago, Ohwell said:

They showed him earlier with another shirt that he was supposed to wear but there was something wrong with the fit, so he had to change.

That makes a lot of sense—thanks! On the real, even though it was jarring, it was an improvement over his designer penguin scuba suit thing from the SP.

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Incredible technical display from Nathan there.

I was rooting for Jason for the silver medal, but he couldn't afford to pop two jumps.  Had he gotten those, he'd be second.

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21 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

Given the UR issue, I’m miffed at the score difference between him and Jason. It should not be that great. I suppose part of it is Vincent getting “rewarded” for trying the most difficult elements, even if he rarely executes them cleanly.

The difference was entirely TES-based, and resulted from Jason popping two of his seven jumping passes (and apparently having an invalidated spin; the final protocols aren't up yet).  Vincent got hit with a bunch of URs (less than he'd get internationally, but an international panel might also have UR'd Jason's second 3A), but Jason needed to be clean or near-clean to win.

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I thought Nathan was wonderful.  So happy for him.  (Please, please ditch the Vera Wang costumes!  They are awful and don't look cute on your cute self.)

Love Jason's grown up look.  Hoping that next year he won't get old man music and sweaters.  That had Brian Orser written all over it--if 50 year old Brian was skating in a show somewhere in 2019.

Wish that Vincent could fix the URs.  

Camden P.--sigh.  He is a beautiful skater but it seems he has lost his jumps and confidence.  He skated almost this badly at the Junior Grand Prix Final. 

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4 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Boy oh boy, those two (H&D) were in a great mood last night, esp after C/B came in second (things would've been dicey if it had gone the other way...darn it!) I only caught half of what Donahue said to Charley but I knew it was half joke/half for real (he's a legend in his own mind, ol' rat face).  H&D are nowhere near Davis & White, nowhere.  D/W did an incredible variety of dances (remember that Indian SD? I still watch it occasionally on youtube).  They didn't rely on so called smouldering numbers. They took lessons from an Indian dancer and read up on the history of that type of dancing.  Can't imagine H/D doing that.  OK...gonna watch the Men's LP at 3:30 to calm down ;>)

And no matter what H/D achieve on the ice in the future, they will never be Meryl and Charlie because Meryl and Charlie were always humble and gracious.

I missed actually hearing Zach’s comment, however, because whenever Andrea Joyce “catches up” with them I fast forward.  I can’t stand to listen to them talk.

Edited by Libby96
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Great jumps from Nathan. I didn't worry and just sat back and watch.

But damn, son. What I was worried about was his flying shirt. When he did spins, the shirt kept going higher and higher. 

Edited by Snow Apple
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Nathan’s free was wonderful. I think that’s the most confident and calm I’ve seen him in a long time. I didn’t watch the one with Tara/Johnny commentary and I definitely think it improved the program. I don’t see Nathan as a natural artist like Jason, but I do appreciate his performance. 

Re: Scores. I just ignore the numbers. They are ridiculous at Nationals. 

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33 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Great jumps from Nathan. I didn't worry and just sat back and watch.

But damn, son. What I was worried about was his flying shirt. When he did spins, the shirt kept going higher and higher. 

He was worrying about it too, and pulled at it a couple of times, and I was saying to my TV, "just leave it alone, son... no-one's  worried about seeing your belly, and it'll fix itself when you go upright." I was worried that all that plucking he was doing in the middle of the spin would mess up his balance or his concentration.

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40 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Great jumps from Nathan. I didn't worry and just sat back and watch.

But damn, son. What I was worried about was his flying shirt. When he did spins, the shirt kept going higher and higher. 

I was trying to think if we'd ever seen a male skater show midriff and I thought that if Candeloro hadn't, then no ;-)  I did love Terry saying that was the best he'd seen. And also that maybe he'd go help Nathan with his b'ball skills when they cut to Chen messing around with the exercise ball backstage.

I wish Jason had landed everything but it was great to see him actually look happy. Now, get him some better music - he could have done a short to the Bangles' Hazy Shade of Winter...

I felt for the guys who missed the jumps - that has to be awful. After years with no West Side Story, two back to back...

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7 hours ago, blackwing said:

I watched both dance programs and I much preferred Chock and Bates over Hubbell and Donahue.  It seems many here really dislike Hubbell but although I dislike both of them I find myself hating the guy more.  He seems so smug.  They had this “yeah, of course we won,  everyone expected it, just another day at office” vibe.  But it was his “watch out Charlie and Meryl, we’re coming for you” comment that grated.  I bet he thinks he was joking but it just didn’t come across as a joke coming out of his sneering rat face.

I must have missed that. Oh, HELL no. 

 

Why does Zach Donahue manage to stick his foot in his mouth, and say something smug, snotty and stupid,  EVERY god damned year?

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If anyone is interested in re-watching any of the Nationals coverage and has the NBC Sports Gold pass, I recommend it. It is 100% Johnny- and Tara-free.

 Charlie White and Michael Weiss did the Nationals commentary for all disciplines expected dance (Charlie was joined by Ben Agosto for part of that). They are GREAT at not talking over the performances. And if they do, it was usually Michael giving a quick explanation in how or why a skater might have missed an element. They have an easy enough back-and-forth with each other, which mostly makes up for the predictable nature of Charlie talking more about the skating skills and performance and Michael talking about the jumps.

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Just caught up with the men's short. Forget who it was, but someone is skating to Muse Exogenesis and I couldn't stop thinking about Jeremy Abbott's skate to that. One of my favorites ever. He was so inconsistent, but when he was good, he was very, very good. 

WOW, the commentators for the European finals actually shut the fuck up unless there is something to explain, which allows me to enjoy the skates much more. I wish Johnny and Tara would take note, but I don't think they have tired of the sound of their own voice yet. 

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6 hours ago, specialj67 said:

Javi’s performance was nowhere near his best, but still admirable considering it’s been nearly a year since he last competed. Does anyone know why he came back for this last competition. Was it mainly to secure men’s spots for Spain at next year’s Euros? 

They said on the broadcast that he hadn't wanted the pressure of ending his career at the Olympics, so he'd said Europeans -- which felt like "home" to him -- would be his final performance.

Damn, Nathan! His quads look so freaking CASUAL. 

How frustrating must it be for the other men, though, to work so hard and put your all into the sport -- and Nathan Chen is out there winning by 60 FREAKING POINTS. I mean, he's clearly the top of the U.S. crop given the current scoring system, but that's a LOT. 

Apart from the top four or so, it was a cringey splat-fest. Jason is great, but you can't pop two jumping passes and not have a quad. I was really hoping he'd nail the quad.

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On 1/26/2019 at 1:36 PM, SeanC said:

This is inherently a group with a small sample size, but training the triple Axel at a young age has not been an issue for girls who did it previously, e.g., Mao Asada, who had a long career.  Or Rika Kihira, for that matter, who triple Axel'd her way through juniors and is comfortable in the senior ranks now.  Miki Ando tried the quad Salchow throughout her junior career and likewise had a long and successful senior career.

We need to be careful of survivorship bias in this, though. We know well of those skaters because they were the few whose bodies were able to withstand that level of training. Far more young girls' bodies wouldn't, though. When a 13-year-old is rewarded for doing multiple triple axels by being named US national champion, it only encourages other young skaters to try the same, when it likely isn't appropriate or healthy for them.

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28 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I must have missed that. Oh, HELL no. 

 

Why does Zach Donahue manage to stick his foot in his mouth, and say something smug, snotty and stupid,  EVERY god damned year?

It's something else, right? Such a little putz. I wonder if they're aware that a lot of skate fans detest them.  Too bad I can't be sitting in the stands at Worlds, holding a big sign with some type of "creative" message, especially for ol' rat face. 

Did anyone see Sergei Ponomorenko at Nationals? 

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38 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

It's something else, right? Such a little putz. I wonder if they're aware that a lot of skate fans detest them.  Too bad I can't be sitting in the stands at Worlds, holding a big sign with some type of "creative" message, especially for ol' rat face. 

Did anyone see Sergei Ponomorenko at Nationals? 

I wondered if he was next to Marina when they showed her during the rhythm dance. There was a gray haired man next to her that pointed to her image on the jumbotron, but they didn't show much of his face. I kinda assumed that was him.

 

Rat Face. It's such a perfect name for Donohue. Unfortunately, I don't find his ice dance partner all that likable, either. Scott Moir at least had a likable ice dance partner to soften his douchtasticness. 

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2 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I wondered if he was next to Marina when they showed her during the rhythm dance. There was a gray haired man next to her that pointed to her image on the jumbotron, but they didn't show much of his face. I kinda assumed that was him.

 

Rat Face. It's such a perfect name for Donohue. Unfortunately, I don't find his ice dance partner all that likable, either. Scott Moir at least had a likable ice dance partner to soften his douchtasticness. 

In terms of personality and attitude, Hubbell and Donahue are perfectly matched. They seem equally unpleasant and petulant. 

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1 hour ago, ombelico said:

We need to be careful of survivorship bias in this, though. We know well of those skaters because they were the few whose bodies were able to withstand that level of training. Far more young girls' bodies wouldn't, though. When a 13-year-old is rewarded for doing multiple triple axels by being named US national champion, it only encourages other young skaters to try the same, when it likely isn't appropriate or healthy for them.

Very, very few female skaters even train the triple Axel (beyond some doing it in harness for a lark) because it's so difficult.

Figure skating is a physically demanding sport.  Literally any of the jumps can be dangerous for the body if training isn't managed properly.  Bad coaching is a problem, but a bad coach who pushes kids to train the triple Axel in an unhealthy manner would do the same with other jumps (indeed, Eteri, who many people cite as a good example of a bad coach in this regard, mostly leaves the triple Axel alone).  We know that it can be done safely.

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I loved Nathan Chen's Free, despite his costume malfunctions.

I get this is an unpopular opinion, but Jason Brown is just not up to snuff. I don't feel any particular emotion from him because I'm always so nervous that he's going to screw it up because he's trying things for which he doesn't have the skill. His expression is overwrought and ...almost comical. Third seems exactly where he should be. It matches his skill, but rewards him for his non-jumping technical proficiency. He doesn't deserve better.

As to the women, too much expectation can crush a 13 year old. Bradie Tennell's programs are insipid. Starr Andrews needs to accept the fact that she needs better coaching and better choreography if she wants to move up. 

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Good for Tomoki getting the Pewter medal! I was at last year's FS in San Jose, and aside from the top 3, his was my favorite performance of the night. He got a huge reaction from the crowd. So happy to see him doing so well here! Will be interesting to see how he does at Four Continents.

I'm so amazed and impressed by what Nathan has been able to do this year. Not only being a full-time student at Yale, but essentially training by himself most of the time. That performance was bonkers. I don't even know how else to describe it.

I always look at the judges' protocols sheets after an event, and he got nearly perfect GOE on all of his quads. His quad lutz actually did receive a perfect score (the one 4 would have been thrown out). The quad toe only got 2 4s (with one thrown out I assume). I've never seen that before. Yeah, I know, Nationals inflation, but I'm hard-pressed to say he didn't deserve that, or at least close to it. That would have been a huge score, even internationally. (I'm side-eyeing a couple judges who only gave him 3s on a couple of the jumps--not sure where you can find 2 points worth of deductions.) He was more than 100 points above the 5th place skater!

I really enjoy Nathan's style. I don't think he's uninteresting at all.

Also, No drama around the world's team this year! What a difference from last year's Olympics selection.

Quote

Jason Brown was miles better than Vincent.  Miles.

As others have mentioned, his tech content doesn't compare to Vincent's, and he had two pops. So I think it was fair. If he had been clean, it would be a different story.

Edited by redpencil
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1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I wondered if he was next to Marina when they showed her during the rhythm dance. There was a gray haired man next to her that pointed to her image on the jumbotron, but they didn't show much of his face. I kinda assumed that was him.

 

Rat Face. It's such a perfect name for Donohue. Unfortunately, I don't find his ice dance partner all that likable, either. Scott Moir at least had a likable ice dance partner to soften his douchtasticness. 

I saw that man but didn't recognize him as Sergei.  I saw them twice, in the '90's, in Champions on Ice shows. They were stunning--real dramatic programs that brought old classical music to life.

Heh heh...douchtasticness.  I don't know who on this forum came up w/ the name rat face, but whoever you are, it was pure genius. 

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4 hours ago, displayname said:

I don't get Chen's LP. It looks like it opens mysteriously and... then "??????" And then at the end he fires up with some "angry" expressions. Sure.

Zhou is just not interesting to watch either.

Brown is the best PCS skater here. But well.

My daughter said Chen LP is him pretending to be an angry bird. 

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Interesting article about Alysa. She had hip injuries already. Yikes. Reading the comments USA federation and her father wanted this. USA fed already sent her and her coach to watch the Russians. They might go to Worlds too. She's learning quads. USA wants to send a message to Russia and Japan that they have a quad 3a girl too. 

 

My heart breaks for Kolyada. He had it then it slipped away. The russian men need a sports psychologist asap. It's also bs they called Javi's UR. I watched so many times I didn't see it. 

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

 

As to the women, too much expectation can crush a 13 year old. Bradie Tennell's programs are insipid. Starr Andrews needs to accept the fact that she needs better coaching and better choreography if she wants to move up. 

I read Starr skates for two hours per day 5/6 days a week  and lives with her grandparents. She pays for skating with her go fund me. Her coach charges less than other coaches. My heart breaks for her because she has talent. It sucks skating is a rich people sport and you have to have money to skate. I wish we had scholarships and funding to help skaters out. You can have talent but won't go far without money. 

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6 hours ago, displayname said:

Converting music to form and emotion should definitely be regarded as a high form of art, and changing the perspective on a piece of music is the highest form of art in dance. Creating evocative shapes, and/or giving a lively performance. Living, breathing soul. Well, there's honestly little of it here. But as long as the judges keep rewarding nothing, it won't change.

Yes. Sadly, the judges don't care. This is why I miss Kwan and the old skating. I felt something. I couldn't stop watching. Now the judges just don't care and give points out like water. Especially for their favorites 

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1 hour ago, redpencil said:

I always look at the judges' protocols sheets after an event, and he got nearly perfect GOE on all of his quads. His quad lutz actually did receive a perfect score (the one 4 would have been thrown out). The quad toe only got 2 4s (with one thrown out I assume). I've never seen that before. Yeah, I know, Nationals inflation, but I'm hard-pressed to say he didn't deserve that, or at least close to it. That would have been a huge score, even internationally. (I'm side-eyeing a couple judges who only gave him 3s on a couple of the jumps--not sure where you can find 2 points worth of deductions.) He was more than 100 points above the 5th place skater!

 

Yeah, while there was of course Nationals inflation, this program skated at Worlds would have been easily over 200 points.  The base value alone of his elements was almost 95 points, and while international judges wouldn't have been throwing out +5s with abandon, pretty much everything would merit at least in the area of +3.  And while program components wouldn't have been 98, they'd have been well over 90 (he got 90 PCS for a far less perfect performance at Skate America).

24 minutes ago, Darknight said:

Yes. Sadly, the judges don't care. 

Or the judges have different opinions about those things.

There's plenty to nitpick or criticize about judging today, just as there was yesterday (though frankly, whatever undeniable problems there are with the IJS don't hold a candle to the corruption of the 6.0 system), but the idea that judges don't care about those things is entirely unsupported.  Current skaters are every bit as capable as previous generations, and speak to the audience just as much, as you can see by the reactions they get.  That doesn't mean, of course, that anyone personally has to like an individual skater as much (I'm not a huge fan of Nathan's aesthetic myself, but his moody, modern dance-inspired style has a lot of fans among knowledgeable people, and obviously the public), but this isn't some generational decline.

Edited by SeanC
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1 hour ago, Darknight said:

 

 

My heart breaks for Kolyada. He had it then it slipped away. The russian men need a sports psychologist asap. It's also bs they called Javi's UR. I watched so many times I didn't see it. 

 

Ashley Wagner, who commentated on the men’s free skate for NBC Sports, mentioned that Russians find the European Championships especially stressful because the Russian Championships don’t determine the world team—Euros is another qualifying event for those skaters.

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8 hours ago, SeanC said:

pretty much everything would merit at least in the area of +3.

His spins, footwork, three jump combo, 4T+3T certainly shouldn't, nor should his 3Lz+3T, 3A or his 4F. His technique is being overrated, especially he has technique issues on his toeloops. Look at how slow his spins are, or how tilted he gets in the air with poor outflow. He probably WOULD get +3s on his elements internationally, but it's based on his reputation as WC, not because of some genius. Credit to his great 4Lz though.

Edited by displayname

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Just watched Nathan's FP. Wow! That was awesome and exciting in a fun way not a "OMG is he going to splat" way which I appreciate. 

Haha that top was riding up! I was prepared for it since you guys talked about it but I didn't expect it to ride up THAT high!

***

I think I am a person geared more towards jumps and transitions based on the programs I've been enjoying. 

I find the old programs where they keep skating around and around really dull. I have looked up some old programs that are mean to be good and they bore me to tears.

That said I don't like the idea of "Let's try to do hard programs and splat but still beat easier clean programs" so as long as they work to keep that at bay I am enjoying seeing the crazy TES marks. I reckon you either risk it and land it like Nathan did at US Nationals or you skate what you can skate. That Shoma dude always looks so sketchy to me. Like he's going to stack it at any given time. His landings always look like they are two footed.

***

On another note, does anyone know when I will see Cha and JULIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET again? Is he going to Worlds?

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8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

On another note, does anyone know when I will see Cha and JULIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET again? Is he going to Worlds?

As far as I know, he’ll be at Four Continents (which is next week!) and Worlds.

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Alysa's going to be on the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon and the Today show. I do feel a little better that Ting and Hannah showed a ton of potential at this year's nationals, hopefully they can continue to improve and give some competition to Alysa in upcoming nationals (since Alysa won't be able to compete at a senior level until 2020...). I'm looking forward to seeing how Ting does at 4CC. I'm also not sure how I feel about USFS paying to send Alysa to watch the grand prix final. Let's just hope that the figure skating community can protect her a little bit. The NYT article about Gracie could have been a documentary that ended with Alysa winning nationals.  I know that maybe that's unfair to say. I think that it will probably help that there is not as much depth in the US compared to Russia. Hell, the US "class of 2008" basically just stopped competing.  

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11 hours ago, surreysmum said:

He was worrying about it too, and pulled at it a couple of times, and I was saying to my TV, "just leave it alone, son... no-one's  worried about seeing your belly, and it'll fix itself when you go upright." I was worried that all that plucking he was doing in the middle of the spin would mess up his balance or his concentration.

I am surprised at how good skaters actually are at managing props or their clothes on ice!

Ignore the hideous costume and cheesy routine but baby Zhenya does a great job of clinging onto her hat in this video while she jumps and spins. At one point she spins with it on and catches it because it starts to fall off.

Edited by Mellowyellow
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17 hours ago, Jaded said:

What the hell was that "You think it's all about a quad?" and how changing a sport takes a lifetime spot that just ran all about? It was obnoxious and if the intent was to make viewers feel for him or be impressed they failed in regards to that.

I think it was a re-cut clip from last year, a response to the simplistic 'quad king' fever before and after the Olympics. Everyone from Wired to the New York Times got excited talking about quads before Pyeongchang. The tone of the piece probably made more sense at the time but his voice sounded a little tinny in the audio. The Super Bowl ad last year was more effective at making the same point about the work behind the scenes, without the voiceover.

 

14 hours ago, specialj67 said:

Charlie White and Michael Weiss did the Nationals commentary for all disciplines expected dance (Charlie was joined by Ben Agosto for part of that). They are GREAT at not talking over the performances. And if they do, it was usually Michael giving a quick explanation in how or why a skater might have missed an element. They have an easy enough back-and-forth with each other, which mostly makes up for the predictable nature of Charlie talking more about the skating skills and performance and Michael talking about the jumps.

I liked how they were specifically directed to minimize their commentary during the free skates. I wasn't as familiar with Michael Weiss' commentary work but I liked his post-skate analysis. Mirai was a pleasant surprise during Ice Desk too - she was thoughtful, measured and got technical where warranted.

I really hope US Figure Skating will bring in former young champions like Mirai and Michelle to help Alysa deal with some of the hype and media attention. Sending her to senior competitions to get used to the environment is good too but I'm sure there are other, lesser known lessons from Michelle's first senior years. 

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13 hours ago, Darknight said:

Interesting article about Alysa. She had hip injuries already. Yikes. Reading the comments USA federation and her father wanted this. USA fed already sent her and her coach to watch the Russians. They might go to Worlds too. She's learning quads. USA wants to send a message to Russia and Japan that they have a quad 3a girl too. 

I read Starr skates for two hours per day 5/6 days a week  and lives with her grandparents. She pays for skating with her go fund me. Her coach charges less than other coaches. My heart breaks for her because she has talent. It sucks skating is a rich people sport and you have to have money to skate. I wish we had scholarships and funding to help skaters out. You can have talent but won't go far without money. 

Alysa has had hip injuries already?  Not good. Also not good that her father is ok with all of this.  I recall hearing that Tara injured her hips by practicing triple-triples over and over prior to the '98 Olympics. She eventually needed surgery.  Can she still skate?

Re: Starr--this may not be a popular opinion but IMO she doesn't have "it"...whatever "it" is that produces a successful figure skater (one who can blend the physical efforts with the artistic). She skates through the music, not with it, and she doesn't get into the ice but seems to fly over the ice from jump to jump, up and down the rink.  Maybe a good choreographer could help some. Not sure.

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13 hours ago, honeywest said:

Ashley Wagner, who commentated on the men’s free skate for NBC Sports, mentioned that Russians find the European Championships especially stressful because the Russian Championships don’t determine the world team—Euros is another qualifying event for those skaters.

My heart breaks for Kolyada. I mean Russian media is so cruel. He's being called a disgrace, failure, a non Russian. Poor guy. Maybe instead of bashing Russian men they should see it is mental. He had the lead them blew it. He can't handle the pressure. Skating is just as mental too. In fact I think it is more mental. Bashing the Russian men does not help. Looking at you Tatiana. 

Edited by Darknight
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7 hours ago, BelleBrit said:

Alysa's going to be on the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon and the Today show. I do feel a little better that Ting and Hannah showed a ton of potential at this year's nationals, hopefully they can continue to improve and give some competition to Alysa in upcoming nationals (since Alysa won't be able to compete at a senior level until 2020...). I'm looking forward to seeing how Ting does at 4CC. I'm also not sure how I feel about USFS paying to send Alysa to watch the grand prix final. Let's just hope that the figure skating community can protect her a little bit. The NYT article about Gracie could have been a documentary that ended with Alysa winning nationals.  I know that maybe that's unfair to say. I think that it will probably help that there is not as much depth in the US compared to Russia. Hell, the US "class of 2008" basically just stopped competing.  

The president of USA fed invested in her. Her father does too. They already decided she is their ice princess. So the federation never learns from their past mistakes. Alysa, her coach, and her dad look at the Russian jrs as inspirations.  Do they not know Russian skaters(not including Liza) do not last long. They get burned out and injuried. 

 

As much as i hate how much attention and now pressure Alysa is getting, a small part of me is happy the Today and Tonight show is covering a figure skater. Skaters are not popular here(not counting the legends and how skating use to be popular) like it is in Russia and Japan. So maybe more people will watch and follow skating. 

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24 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Alysa has had hip injuries already?  Not good. Also not good that her father is ok with all of this.  I recall hearing that Tara injured her hips by practicing triple-triples over and over prior to the '98 Olympics. She eventually needed surgery.  Can she still skate?

Re: Starr--this may not be a popular opinion but IMO she doesn't have "it"...whatever "it" is that produces a successful figure skater (one who can blend the physical efforts with the artistic). She skates through the music, not with it, and she doesn't get into the ice but seems to fly over the ice from jump to jump, up and down the rink.  Maybe a good choreographer could help some. Not sure.

I think Tara and everyone forgets she had to retire at 15 and had hip replacement/ surgery at 18. Nobody wants to talk aboytabout the injuries. 

 

I don't know how I feel about Alysa's father or her coach. Her coach is very young and inexperienced. Her father seem to be the PR person. Nice guy but he needs to slow down too. He was concerned her score was not higher against Brandie I think in the short. 

 

 https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/article/Richmond-s-U-S-champion-figure-skater-Alysa-13564012.php

 

 

 

As for Starr, by heart breaks for her. Her mom picks her music. Her mom is very specific on what she wants. I think her mom is the problem too. On top of her coaching issue. Her mom also has heart disease and had multiple heart attacks. I don't understand why they wouldn't let her stay in juniors. Maybe due to her fultz. Starr is not competitive and her mom needs to back off a bit. Money is tight but her coaching is not good. If something doesn't change then Starr will be left behind even further. 

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17 minutes ago, Darknight said:

The president of USA fed invested in her. Her father does too. They already decided she is their ice princess. So the federation never learns from their past mistakes. Alysa, her coach, and her dad look at the Russian jrs as inspirations.  Do they not know Russian skaters(not including Liza) do not last long. They get burned out and injuried. 

 

As much as i hate how much attention and now pressure Alysa is getting, a small part of me is happy the Today and Tonight show is covering a figure skater. Skaters are not popular here(not counting the legends and how skating use to be popular) like it is in Russia and Japan. So maybe more people will watch and follow skating. 

One thing that stuck out to me about the  Gracie article was how her mother said that it wasn't just her own expectations that were crushed by 2016 worlds, but that Gracie felt "the expectations of her country" and "the expectations of her agent" on her shoulders at 2016 worlds.  For one, figure skating is just not popular enough that Gracie should have felt like the country's expectations were on her. And secondly, I'm not even sure that the figure skating community's expectations were necessarily on her for 2016 worlds, even if she felt that way. I think they did hope that the "drought" would end, but didn't really care if it was Ashley or Gracie who got it done. She had just had disappointing performances at the grand prix final and 4CC that season (and even though she won 2016 nationals, she had a pop in the short program).  Heck, Gracie even bombed her short program at her first senior nationals in 2013, even though she pulled up to silver, so I feel like there was always issues with pressure there.  The agent, I just don't trust, she was still promoting Gracie as an Olympic contender in 2017 spring/summer when it was clear that she was losing her triples and spiraling downwards.  Now that same agent has Alysa. The circle of life. Even though Nathan's issues at the Olympics get blamed on his layout changes, it's telling that he is such a grounded and seemingly consistent person that the pressure got to him too in the Olympic year.

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2 minutes ago, BelleBrit said:

One thing that stuck out to me about the  Gracie article was how her mother said that it wasn't just her own expectations that were crushed by 2016 worlds, but that Gracie felt "the expectations of her country" and "the expectations of her agent" on her shoulders at 2016.  For one, figure skating is just not popular enough that Gracie should have felt like the country's expectations were on her. And secondly, I'm not even sure that the figure skating community's expectations were necessarily on her for 2016 worlds, even if she felt that way. I think they did hope that the "drought" would end, but didn't really care if it was Ashley or Gracie who got it done. She had just had disappointing performances at the grand prix final and 4CC that season (and even though she won 2016 nationals, she had a pop in the short program).  Heck, Gracie even bombed her short program at her first senior nationals in 2013, even though she pulled up to silver, so I feel like there was always issues with pressure there.  The agent, I just don't trust, she was still promoting Gracie as an Olympic contender in 2017 spring/summer when it was clear that she was losing her triples and spiraling downwards.  Now that same agent has Alysa. The circle of life.

My heart breaks for Gracie. It really does. She seems like a perfectionist too. 

 

Again, when will the fed learn from their mistakes? Who is this agent and why is she allowed to do this? Alysa's father needs to keep that lady far away from her. 

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16 hours ago, Darknight said:

My heart breaks for Gracie. It really does. She seems like a perfectionist too. 

 

Again, when will the fed learn from their mistakes? Who is this agent and why is she allowed to do this? Alysa's father needs to keep that lady far away from her. 

Yuki Saegusa of IMG. She is also Mirai, Adam, the Shibs, Bradie, Nathan, Kristi, and Karen's agent (to name a few, haha). I'm sure she is not a bad person, she seems to have a particularly nice relationship with Nathan, she also went to Yale and seemed to really promote the idea of him going to college. I just wondered how much and what she knew about Gracie's downward spiral, though to be fair the NYT article did say that people were trying to help her for a while, and she was resistant.  I just remember Gracie having her tough nationals in 2017 and Frank dumping her, and it seemed like there was an instant effort for her team to launch a media offensive to show her sponsors that everything was ok (She came in 6th at nationals and still went on the Today Show afterwards to talk about her coaching change, and there was also a strange ESPN W article, linked below, that had a very "cleanup on aisle 4" feel. Plus, she was assigned to the Japan Open 2017 Fall IMG event in the summer, even though it was clear that she had lost her triples by Stars on Ice that Spring).  Not blaming the agent, but I'm sure she's very excited about Alysa and all of the money that she could potentially make off of her if she's "the next big thing".

(here's the link-http://www.espn.com/espnw/life-style/article/18647109/gracie-gold-season-felt-tom-brady-first-half-super-bowl)

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16 hours ago, SeanC said:

Very, very few female skaters even train the triple Axel (beyond some doing it in harness for a lark) because it's so difficult.

They don't train it because nobody does it in competition -- until now. I'm sure Mirai landing the triple in the Olympics last year made other skaters sit up and take notice. Now we have Mirai and Alysa landing the triple in two major competitions in a relatively short period of time. Hey, if she can do it, so can I.

I'm not saying that girls shouldn't train the triple axel. But reading about all the injuries and the hip problems -- they should be careful, have the right coach, see whatever doctor they need to to stay healthy -- and pray to whatever god they pray to for a little luck. Maybe not copy the assembly line methods employed by the Russians. 

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