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S01.E05: Truth

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On the one hand, that's definitely true. On the other hand, there's a cash prize involved that would mean Faith & Amy (and her grandma) could move somewhere more accepting.

Faith doesn't need to win for that. Rachel already offered to get Faith and Amy enough money to allow them to move, but Faith turned her down because she doesn't want to leave her hometown. Should she change her mind about moving, I'm sure Rachel's offer would still be on the table.

 

Does it matter who Adam ends up with? The odds that it would last are very low the way it is. I doubt there's a contractual obligation to stay together after the final show has aired.

 

There's no contractual obligation, but Adam is on the show in order to rehab his image and show himself to be a fine, upstanding man who can be trusted to operate a hotel. Accordingly, he needs to pick a woman that the audience likes and then stay with that woman after the show has ended for long enough to make himself, and this whole thing, look sincere rather than the cynical PR move it is. Since he doesn't actually want to get married, especially not to any of the contestants, he's also better off picking a woman who isn't invested in an actual relationship and is happy to play along for PR until enough time has gone by that they can end the relationship without Adam looking like a tool. If he picks a woman who wants to be with him and then strings her along until he dumps her, she might well go to the media and say all kinds of nasty things. So Faith is really the ideal pick for Adam's goals; I just don't think that winning would be best for her.

 

I just have this feeling, though, that this is all going to be irrelevant. Adam will throw a wrench into the works at the final ceremony by announcing he wants Rachel, or something like that. It'll be the second Everlasting finale in a row that Rachel will have ruined somehow (although editing ended up saving the last one and turning it into a ratings bonanza).

 

One thing that's pretty impressive to think of is that Rachel was going to give up 10K for Faith. That's the main reason I think she never had manipulative motives in mind when she was trying to get Faith to admit her feelings for Amy. Quinn had told her if Faith lost her virginity to Adam on the trip, Rachel would get 10K, but as soon as Rachel realized what was up with Faith and Amy, she just tried to help Faith along that path instead. The "losing her virginity" plot point only came back into play once Rachel understood that outing Faith would ruin her life. Now maybe it could be argued that Rachel figured Quinn would knock 10K off her debt anyway for the drama of a coming-out, but that wasn't the deal and it's not wise to just assume what Quinn will do. I expect Rachel knows better and would have called Quinn first and asked, if the money had been on her mind.

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Whore's Bath; I think they used that phrase on Happy Endings.  A friend used that phrase with me in college about 10 years ago.  That was new to me at the time too.

 

There is a band called Meat Puppets that was formed in 1980.  Kurt Cobain was a fan of them and played music with them, and covered their songs.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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I am hoping that Adam chooses Faith in the end to be his wife ... He is only there to rehab his image anyway ... he won't feel guilty for divorcing her after a few months, she comes out... and he goes back to Rachel :) I see so much chemistry between them and they balance each other out in a non traditional way.

That is probably not logical though...

Ugh I HATE Jeremy... what he did to Rachel is terrible! AND he is engaged!

So excited for the next episode!!

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I think Faith loses anonymity if she places any higher than top 3. If we take her at her word, she doesn't want to be famous, just able to do what she wants. She can be that girl who takes care of her grandmother and doesn't have time for a boyfriend and can't find one who equals Adam anyway.

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So I don't always need the sex. I find it a little forced (e.g. Adam schtupping Napa guy's wife last week, Rachel masturbating this week) but again, I like that this show is really comfortable with the fact that female sexuality and sex drive is a thing. 

 

So the thing about Faith being a crowd favorite confirms that this show is supposed to be filmed week to week which is insane. There is no way they could build the narrative on the fly week to week. From what I know that's mainly scripted or established in editing later. But it makes all the week to week manipulations make more sense.

 

I'm glad the show psychologist has some sense of responsibility but seeing how easily Rachel brushed her off was not encouraging.

 

This is one of the times when I think Rachel's "magic" didn't make sense to me. "Take my flower." That was some awkward bullshit Shia would pull and even Shiri didn't have the charm to get out of that poorly written scene unscathed. 

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I think Big Brother is the only bottle reality show that is aired week to week. I think the other shows film the whole thing and the producers have to manipulate it on the fly just to make sure they have enough video coverage to create the narratives.

 

What's becoming a problem with Unreal is that the creator does the concept like a movie where we're supposed to be shocked how badly people are manipulated. After a few hours of this, it's more like a scripted drama about a show instead of the people behind it.

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Before Rachel even went in the room... as soon as I saw Faith interact with her best friend, I thought, lesbians. I wish they wouldn't have gone there because being traditionally feminine in certain respects has nothing to do with your sexuality and we've gotten no inkling that Faith isn't attracted to men. Also, it's hard to take as seriously with the amazing character Janet Varney played on Burning Love. I do think they went an interesting place with it because of the actors. Again, Rachel pushed her super hard about her friend in a way that wasn't too smooth but the actress playing Faith gave such an amazing reaction. It wasn't a clearly pissed off but polite Anna or Mary. It was the smile of someone so in the closet that you could barely see any strain and you would normally think it wasn't as good of an acting job to not go to a more flashy, dramatic place, but I think this was the smarter acting choice. Again, very nice job from the actress playing Faith when she kissed Adam and told him she was a virgin. She brings this great light comedy to the show. It's not slapstick goofy and you don't feel like you're laughing at her (the way Quinn wanted initially). I just like her. I didn't want to lose the actress or the lightness she brings to the show. But those were really beautiful coming out scenes. It's weird that it's in front of all these cameras and with strangers and yet both out in the dark and then in the barn they felt so quiet and natural.

 

I was so happy that Rachel finally "produced" someone without compromising her morals or ruining their lives but I knew the positive vibe wouldn't last to the end of the episode.

 

Shia is the worst. How did she get hired for this job? There's not only the way she talked to Mary but then the pills? UGH, I hate Shia.

 

You know, I don't mind the legal thing. It's not like when they try to do politics on Nashville. It feels like this is a show where slimy lawyers fit right in.

 

Quinn, I don't care how drunk you are. SHIA IS NEVER RIGHT. I liked Quinn producing Mary though. I can see where Rachel got it. 

 

Matthew Shepard? Oh, so we're going there. Again, I'm not quite sure who the audience for this show is because this long after it happened I'm not sure the name would ring a bell for everyone in the audience. 

 

Oh, Christ. A) I'm happy that Rachel chose to protect Faith two times in the episode. B) I freaked out that Rachel might have given him a ring and I thought where in the hell would they go from there... he's supposed to propose at the end. 

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It's so weird that both Adam and Faith would be OK pretending to have sex. They're so good at some stuff (I mean the writers) and so bad at other things. I also got a little tense and worried that Shia had put something in the pills that would react badly with alcohol. Because it's Shia and her awfulness knows no bounds.

 

Shiri had another nice moment towards the end talking about depression and then they had to ruin with bloody Jeremy again. I don't care how pretty you are, Jeremy. You bring nothing to the show. And what about your fiancee?

 

I didn't know how they were going to save the say. They got a lot of mileage out of that one story. Adam coming to the rescue makes me wonder if in a possible season 2 they couldn't keep him around. He's just so wonderfully manipulative. I also loved his American California surfer accent.

 

I can't get a read on Adam and Rachel right now. So he's into her and not just to manipulate her but maybe just as a hookup because she's not letting him go after anyone else. Maybe? And she's still in love with Adam as that anvillicious masturbation scene at the end showed us.

 

What was I supposed to get out of that scene with Mary at the end (other than bad things are about to happen) and again, who does this show think it's for? I know it's not "television for women" anymore but you know, it kind of still is. And they're not all Faith. ;)

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Jeremy needs to go. Rachel could have chosen Adam's sex tape and she didn't? Maybe her mother's right about her mental health.

Ahahaha. I didn't even think of that. And "Pippa" was blurry so she could easily project herself into that cipher. But it would have undercut the move she just made with Adam and I think the show is still having fun teasing us with this love triangle. It's definitely not an isosceles though. She doesn't have equally chemistry with Adam and Jeremy. As much as it would be a toxic relationship that would never last, the chemistry between the actors playing Adam and Rachel is off the charts while acting off of the actor playing Jeremy must be like acting opposite a tennis ball.

 

From what I gather from the website, it's those 7 and it looks like Joy. (who's never been heard from so she's likely unimportant).

I think there was something written under one of the girls' photos on the board like "ready to go crazy" or something like that. I didn't recognize her so that could have been Joy.

 

And along those lines, Faith’s neighbors are okay with her “fornicating” with Adam as long as it doesn’t mean she’s gay?

I'm pretty sure no one condoned that and it would have been a surprise when they saw the show. If Adam eventually picked her they might have been OK with it because she thought she was going to marry the guy though I'm sure she would have still gotten some side eye from people. Still, I think they would have been more accepting of that than her being a lesbian unless she went to one of those pray away the gay camps and came back reformed. There were suspicious blurs in the back when they were planning the silhouetted fake-coitus and I swear I thought grandma was going to be watching from the porch and horrified to see Faith kiss Amy. 

 

I agree with you. I had no problem with him stopping.  If women can change their minds, even after they initiate, so can men.

Oh, I have no problem with him stopping. No one is ever obligated to have sex whether or not they initiate. The part that bothers me is that he initiated but made sure to make her feel bad about herself when he left. 

 

I'm glad it was, though going by the preview for next week, Chet now seems much more involved in the day-to-day producing. Also, was the wrist cast supposed to mean he hurt Quinn? I don't see the importance otherwise; it might have been the first (only?) time he said he loved her, but that's useless in the lawsuit, I think.

I hope not. I know we've had death and rape and spousal abuse but that's a unnecessary step too far. I mean, most of the other ones were unnecessary too but at least they furthered the plot. This would just be an additional crapsack world tag.

 

Preach. I finally figured out who Jeremy reminds me of. Grayson from Drop Dead Diva. The writers tried to convince me that Grayson was this gorgeous swoon-worthy hunk and all I saw was a block of wood who couldn't act. Pretty--yes? Riveting and exciting--no.

YES! Though, Jeremy is prettier than Grayson was.

 

I had the weirdest thought watching this last night, that actually the most unbelievable aspect of this show is that the bachelor is as nice as Adam can be. I haven't watched it in several years, but even when I did I never thought those guys were capable of thinking of anyone other than themselves, and were completely convinced of their irresistibility. I just could not picture any of them smoothly saving Faith like that.

Oh, for all the terrible stuff, there's totally an element of "perfect boyfriend" writing to him. You know what it is. The guy in the rom-com. Blaine on Glee. The guy who is just too smooth. Too sweet and good at saying the perfect thing. It's the romantic equivalent of the genius detective characters who make such investigative leaps that it's almost magic. I think it works because we get the slimeball part of him too and he often uses him charm for his own purposes. But yes, his prowess borders on chessmaster.

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Do we know what pills got interfered with?

It looked like Shia only tampered with one pill each day of the week—and Dr. Exposition mentioned mood stabilizers. Quitting Lithium cold turkey can cause uncontrollable emotional displays, mania, irritability, depression, and/or suicidal thoughts.

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Shia is the worst. How did she get hired for this job? There's not only the way she talked to Mary but then the pills? UGH, I hate Shia.

 

I don't think Shia has always been this incompetent at her job.  I thought it was implied early on that she had a hand in covering up Rachel's meltdown last season.  I think she's messing up so bad and is behaving so desperately because of how intimidated/jealous she is by Rachel's position with Quinn. Quinn reassigned all of the most promising girls in the show to Rachel back in the pilot, and many of those used to be Shia's.  Shia now has the lower-tier girls who she's trying to make work, but she doesn't have Rachel or Quinn's skills so she can't make it happen.  Each time she gets upstaged, she just gets more and more desperate.

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I agree, I don't think Shia was supposed to always be incompetent, or Quinn would never have kept her around - more just that she was fine at her job but nothing special. I thought Shia had a great line in the first episode when she said that even when Rachel slips in shit it turns into gold. It really showcased the nature of her frustration (and it makes me think of Salieri, who had the same problem with Mozart in Amadeus: "Mediocrities, I absolve you."), and I can see how she's desperate. But I actually think she's smarter in her desperation than Jay is because at least she doesn't go around making enemies of powerful people. What Shia did to Mary is completely unethical and horrendous, but it will result in good reality TV. Unfortunately. Meanwhile, Jay was trying to look out for himself but doesn't really have an idea how to do it. Pro tip: You don't do it by making enemies of people who are more powerful than you. Someone smarter would've found a way to stay on both Quinn's and Chet's good sides. Failing that, Quinn's good side, because Chet is liable to drop dead any day of an overdose.

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To be fair, I don't know that getting on Quinn's bad side was actually Jay's fault.  Quinn was pissed at Chet and chose to take it out on Jay, which was unprofessional of her, and is quite frankly the reason a lot of work places have rules against office romance.  It's not like anything Jay's actually done anything to make him a bad AP, it was all personal.  Given Jay's ambitions, it was Chet he needed to work, not Quinn, so it was never in his interest to turn Chet down when he asked him for something.  It obviously would have been better for him if Chet hadn't been asking him when "Mom and Dad" were fighting, but the opportunity might not have presented itself again.

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Quinn is Jay's direct boss. He could have avoided it by simply keeping Quinn in the loop, but he didn't. Yes, Quinn was upset with Chet at the time, but if you are trying to rise up the ladder by working connections with people, as Jay is, then you need to be able to form new connections without burning current connections. That aspect of it actually has nothing to do with workplace romance - if you make a habit of keeping your direct boss out of the loop while kissing up to his or her boss, you will shortly find yourself on the outs with your direct boss, whether or not said direct boss is carrying on a romance with his/her boss. Keeping your direct boss out of the loop is also unprofessional, and as Quinn said, it goes to the issue of loyalty. And loyalty does matter because when you're working connections in order to rise up the ladder, you are hoping that those connections are going to be loyal to you. If you don't show loyalty, they will not help you later. Quinn is the one who is responsible for Everlasting's success, not Chet, so she's a valuable connection to have, particularly as a reference. Plus she's younger and healthier, so again, it's dumb to piss her off in favor of Chet, who can drop dead at any second. Now, the second Chet dies, Quinn will fire Jay and blackball him in the industry. She might be able to do that even sooner, now that she's back on good terms with Chet, who cares about her but not at all about Jay. Notice that Quinn just "produced" Chet and got 40% of Everlasting in perpetuity as a result. That kind of ability on her part shows why it's dumb to show Quinn disloyalty. Even if she's temporarily out of favor, she will always figure out a way to land back on her feet.

 

In this episode Jay also alienated Rachel. Now Rachel isn't powerful like Quinn is, but she has special talent, so you never know where she's going to end up working, either, and it's not smart to burn bridges. If Jay had simply refused to do Rachel the favor of keeping Faith's footage under wraps, that would have been one thing (she wasn't upset with Jeremy when he told her he couldn't), but Jay told Rachel he would and then went back on his word. And then he didn't even have the spine to own up to that, but instead lied to Rachel that Chet came across the footage himself, something she was able to easily discover was a lie. Again, it goes to what Quinn said, Jay is not loyal. If you are loyal to no one, no one will be loyal to you, and if no one is loyal to you, there's only so far you can get up the ladder before you get knocked down, and after you get knocked down, you won't be able to get back up. Think Chet can't see that Jay is a weasel who would promptly screw him over if he saw a better connection elsewhere? He won't get far with Chet, because there's nothing special about Jay.

Edited by Black Knight
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Jay said something about Quinn not getting him anywhere when he became Chet's connection. If he had told Quinn, she would have told him to avoid Chet and considered it disloyal to do it anyway. Once he decided to suck up to Chet, there was no upside to telling Quinn.

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I was browsing UnREAL-related accounts on Twitter a few weeks back and someone trolled him for the way he looked.  He responded that it fit the character.  And in some of his more recent pics, he looks much better--more like the Bierko I first saw on Wings way back in the day.  So I don't know if his appearance is character related or if he just got in better shape after filming but he may be winning the war against time as well.

Yeah, I think he's supposed to be a slovenly rich guy (honestly he doesn't look that different from Michael Fleiss, actual creator of The Bachelor/Bachelorette) that is an erratic druggie, but calls the shots because he's Mr. Money Bags. I've actually never heard anything about Fleiss, but it reminds me of Harvey Weinstein (and all the casting couch rumors about him) or the rumors about that gross guy that directs all of the Nickelodeon kids.

I also think of Charlie Sheen and how everyone mostly put up with his druggie craziness because he was their meal ticket.

 

 

Edited by stacey · Reason: fixed quote issue
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That aspect of it actually has nothing to do with workplace romance - if you make a habit of keeping your direct boss out of the loop while kissing up to his or her boss, you will shortly find yourself on the outs with your direct boss, whether or not said direct boss is carrying on a romance with his/her boss. Keeping your direct boss out of the loop is also unprofessional, and as Quinn said, it goes to the issue of loyalty. And loyalty does matter because when you're working connections in order to rise up the ladder, you are hoping that those connections are going to be loyal to you.

 

I totally disagree.  This has everything to do with office romance.  If Chet and Quinn weren't a thing, Jay scoring weed and masseuses for him wouldn't have been any of Quinn's concern.  That's Chet's personal life, not his professional life, and your immediate boss has no reason to kept informed as to who her boss is spending time with.  I also disagree that telling Quinn that Chet had asked him to score him girls and drugs would have been helpful, or received by Quinn as a show of loyalty.  She's the shoot the messenger type and we've seen her treat her employees with undeserved cruelty when she's having a hard time with Chet.  Just look at how she treated Rachel in the control room towards the end of Mother.  The way Quinn grabbed Rachel's face was borderline assault, and she was griping at Rachel for something she knew wasn't Rachel's fault because she had herself told Rachel to take the day off.  But she was angry, and determined to take it out on someone and Rachel was there.  I don't think Quinn would have manhandled Jay in quite the same way (mostly due to the fact that Jay's bigger than she is), but I don't think he would have faired much better than her overall had he told, especially if he wasn't turning Chet down.

 

Also, I think it's pretty clear that Quinn has not been the type of boss that has helped her loyal employees move up in their careers.  Her treatment of Rachel is a pretty scary example of what Quinn's "good side" looks like.  She does not want her best producers to move on to greener pastures, she wants to keep them under her thumb.  Rewards from her mean getting better assignments, not chances at networking.  Jay's worked for Quinn for years, and there's been no indication that he's been anything but a loyal employee to her before this season.  He wants out, and he's looking for a way to find it.  Now I think he's going to be disappointed as I doubt Chet's going to be a better avenue for upward mobility than Quinn is, but Jay will figure that out on his own.  

 

I have problems with what Jay did to Faith, but that's separate from what I think his issues with Quinn are.He obviously knows he did wrong both by Faith and by Rachel since he lied to her about how Chet found the footage and looked really guilty about it.  I think this was the writers' way of showing us how badly Jay wants out.  

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Maybe we should just refer to Chet as Shit from now on.

Yes, let's!!

 

I loved that both Rachel and Adam protected Faith from coming out before she was ready.  I think Adam did it more for Rachel and not just to score points but because he felt for the position that she was in.  Plus, I think he genuinely likes her.

 

Quinn truly is the queen of producing a good show!  She handled Mary with finesse.  Got right to the heart of her issue and somehow sold it as something empowering.

 

A big ol' screw you to Rachel's ex!!  Rachel did not come on to him, he came on to her and then made her feel like shit.  What a dick!

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Jeremy's acting is taking me out of the show... Even more than the storylines and bad writing. Argh, it wasn't even what he said after he stopped the sex, it was how he delivered the line...

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To my eye, there is no relationship on Unreal that isn't transactional -- or none that did not start on that basis.

Agreed, which is why the concept of loyalty to Quinn by her underlings is ridiculous. Loyalty is a two way street. It's something we develop as part of a relationship where there's trust and some kind of expectation that the other party is giving you something in return, even if that something is something abstract like friendship, appreciation, love or emotional fulfillment. That's not the kind of relationship Quinn offers to her employees. With the exception of her relationship with Rachel who she seems to identify with on some level, you basically start over with her every day. You are not valued for the entire body of work, you are judged by the last thing you did or didn't do for her. And that's not the kind of attitude that engenders trust and loyalty.

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Agreed, which is why the concept of loyalty to Quinn by her underlings is ridiculous. Loyalty is a two way street. It's something we develop as part of a relationship where there's trust and some kind of expectation that the other party is giving you something in return, even if that something is something abstract like friendship, appreciation, love or emotional fulfillment. That's not the kind of relationship Quinn offers to her employees.

It's ridiculous, but it does ring true from an emotional standpoint.

Chet might or might not have been the love of Quinn's life, but she did (or does) truly love him. What happened with the spa idea was a betrayal by Chet, so she should blame him. The problem with that is acknowledging how much Chet just uses her is painful--telling herself that Jay is the one with loyalty issues and blaming him is less painful, and gives her a target for her anger and pain that she can actually punish in some way.

Has she earned and encouraged Jay's loyalty? Absolutely not. But that gives her a face and a purpose to her anger and hurt that she can deal with, so how dare he? And if he walks away, she's not attached enough to care.

Edited by Mari
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It's ridiculous, but it does ring true from an emotional standpoint.

Chet might or might not have been the love of Quinn's life, but she did (or does) truly love him. What happened with the spa idea was a betrayal by Chet, so she should blame him. The problem with that is acknowledging how much Chet just uses her is painful--telling herself that Jay is the one with loyalty issues and blaming him is less painful, and gives her a target for her anger and pain that she can actually punish in some way.

Has she earned and encouraged Jay's loyalty? Absolutely not. But that gives her a face and a purpose to her anger and hurt that she can deal with, so how dare he? And if he walks away, she's not attached enough to care.

Oh I definitely think that's true, which is why I don't think it was fair to say that Jay was stupid for getting on Quinn's bad side. What happened to Jay with Quinn has ultimately very little to do with Jay, and furthermore, he was placed in a difficult position the moment Chet asked him to score him weed and women. Quinn may be Jay's primary boss, but we've seen Chet fire people without consulting Quinn. So it'd be no good for Jay to be on his bad side either. At least for now, getting in Chet's good side seems to be in Jay's best interest as even if he can't be counted upon to help Jay with his career, that relationship seemed to have kept him somewhat protected from Quinn as she obviously didn't succeed in firing him.

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Jeremy's acting is taking me out of the show... Even more than the storylines and bad writing. Argh, it wasn't even what he said after he stopped the sex, it was how he delivered the line...

Although I'm enjoying the show overall, a LOT of the acting is rough for me to watch. Even the seasoned people like Craig Bierko and Constance Zimmer seem wooden at times, which probably points to writing/directing since we know they have the chops. The actress playing Rachel seems ok but maybe because 'flatness' is part of the character it isn't so noticeable?

 

I've just watched up to this point... hoping things pick up a bit.

 

Oh, and in the Suspend Disbelief Department: when you take psychotropic drugs you would notice RIGHT AWAY if you were taking probiotics instead. I've described being off meds as feeling like you're wearing someone else's glasses. (it's different if you haven't BEEN on meds and you're manic... then you just think you are the happiest person on earth and can't figure out why other people are concerned about your safety.)

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I did, too, but Faith is bordering on being a caricature—she’s the “golly gee” naïve southerner who’s so religious and sheltered from the outside world that it almost seems like her church is a cult. I do know people who belong to very conservative churches, but they are still aware of societal issues like marriage equality, and sex is talked about in church, not just “between two married people and God.”

And along those lines, Faith’s neighbors are okay with her “fornicating” with Adam as long as it doesn’t mean she’s gay?

I literally just had my best friend sit me down and permanently cut me and my family out of her (and her family) life because of the recent marriage equality decision and our differing opinions on the matter. I support it, she does not. It was extremely shocking and upsetting. She belongs to a local church that I strongly suspect is bordering on cult territory.

I just caught up with this episode. I really like this show. For a show called unreal it's about as real as I've seen lately. On every level. Those scenes between Rachel and her B.O.B were well acted!

So Quinn just had to Produce Chet...you would think he would be smart enough to see though that....maybe not.

I didn't think I was gonna like this show, having only seen a handful of episodes of The Bachelor/ette but it's quickly risen to the top of my list!

Edited by Yeldarbe

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I liked the duality Shiri Appleby showed during this episode where she wanted to produce Faith but at the same time was giving her real courage to be herself the unraveling of her protecting her while exploiting her at the same time.

They need to stop showing Constance Zimmer from a certain angle which is the side of her face when she is looking down and not talking. Her mouth is extremely wrinkled and those side shots really age her. 

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