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Season One Talk: Wolves and Cougars and Bears, Oh My!

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But when you look at the list of gear that they could have taken and what they were allowed to take before selecting the 10 extra items you can see Producer manipulation. The men were kitted out so that they would last and probably a good long time. I bet that the show was pissed that so many people tapped out early.

 

I've considered that myself and I've wondered if the choice of candidates might have intentionally not been limited to those best suited for the challenge.  It may have been producer calculation to choose a few candidates that they knew were under-prepared either psychologically or in terms of skill just to "thin the herd" a bit so that there were only a few left to focus on in the end that could go the distance.  Plus, there was the added TV drama of seeing a few people freak out and flounder.  Alan, Mitch, Lucas and even Sam seemed the most prepared in general to me.  Sam made up for what seemed to be less flexibility in terms of food he was able to trap with his indomitable spirit.  Then again, it may have been just as much of a surprise to the producers as to who lasted the shortest and longest.  I found it interesting how there were a few that left almost immediately, a few who went mid way and others who went almost all the way.  They sort of formed a bell curve, LOL.  I wonder if that's typical of these types of things.

Edited by Snarklepuss

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One of the elements people might find "fake" may be the way the show portrays the challenge.

 

Did the show ever give the list of items referred to as "baseline gear"?  The show repeatedly announced that the participants selected up to 10 survival items, but did not emphasize that they also sent the items listed on http://www.history.com/shows/alone/articles/full-gear-list-and-prohibited-items.

 

Although one has to visit the site and click once or twice to find the list, the list does not have the same profile given the "10 items" on the television show.  Additionally it does not seem familiar that any food was on the list of "10 special items" possibilities or an emergency supply of water and food.  

 

Does the website mention weekly visits for batteries and medical vitals?

 

Making it available on the website but not mentioning it on the show, may be where some get the idea that viewers are being mislead.

Edited by Liberty
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in the first episode they said that the men were are allowed certain items, to include the clothing they were wearing, some in thier pack and the like. I don't think that they went through everything but it covered pretty much what was on that list.

 

I struggled to find the complete list that they could bring with them and what I did find listed the emergency food but not the other food.

 

I don't think the show was fake. I think that it is as close as you could get while being marginally safe. I can see where there are some folks, the people who do this for a living and are hard core surviavlist or train people on survival see the show as fake. Because in the end, the show was not really about how to survive in the wild, it was who out lasted the others. I said it a while back, I was bummed because I think the two who really had strong survival skills and could really have lasted out there a long time tapped out because they were ready to get back to the real world. Lucas dealt with his demons/issues whil ebuilding a boat, a guitar, and a great shelter. Mitch left because he wanted time with his sick Mom after he had figured out how to build a boat, moved his camp, built a good shelter, and was pretty nicely set up.

 

Compare Mitch and Lucass' camp to Sam and Alan's. Both had shelters that allowed them to move around and that were pretty well stocked. Both had figured out water sources, different food options and had explored far more then Sam and Alan had. Hell, Lucas had built a series of fishing lines that he could check in his boat. I half expected him to build a smoke house to preserve fish for the future.

 

Alan had his cook shack but rarely used it. He had his mini fish traps but they were not providing regular food. He took the hunker down and conserve energy approach and lost a pound a day.  Sam was trying to survive by trapping mice.

 

I enjoyed watching Mitch and Lucas because they were doing different things and driven to find a way to build what they needed for long turn survival. Alan and Sam did far less and I don't think I learned much of anything from them. Yes, Alan was entertaining. He could sing, he quoted verse, he was good TV but he is third on my list of people I would want to be stuck in a  survival situation with.

 

The last episode fell flat for me because the two people who I thought had the best skills choose to leave, not because they were not surviving but because they knew they could and they wanted to get back to their family. And yes, that is one element of the show. I just found the last two to be not as interesting to watch in terms of survival. I think they spent so much time on the reveal and Alan's return to his family because they had such little footage of the two in the last few weeks. I don't think that would have been the case with Lucas and Mitch. I think they would be out doing stuff and figuring out how to make their conditions better and prepare for the future.

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I thought it was interesting to see the two different wilderness philosophies being demonstrated, by two different men in each category. 

 

Sam and Alan were kind of in the "hunker down and wait for rescue" mode that a hunter or a hiker would need to adopt if they were lost in the wild.  Other than making some sort of signal--and you could make an argument that Sam's prominent and windswept tent served as such--they demonstrated a classic and solid survival technique.  Stay alive until rescue.  They did it differently, with Alan taking advantage of the natural terrain in his somewhat cave-like structure, and Sam staying out in the open like a bug on a rug with his tent.  This is kind of a reactive philosophy. 

 

Mitch and Lucas were of the "Frontiersman" (or Unabomber) wilderness hermit model.  This is a more proactive "I intended to be here, I wanted to be here, now I'm going to figure out how to make my life here" kind of philosophy.  That's why they were setting up more permanent structures and transportation and entertainment.  I think they would have done quite well for themselves had this not been for the show, and if they really, truly went off by their own decision to live their life this way.  But...because it was for the show, it made it easy for them to say "I did it.  I built my (canoe) (yurt) (cabin) (kitchen) (ukulele).  Now there is nothing left to do." and be satisfied in leaving the challenge.  I don't necessarily think they quit, I think they just did what they intended to do, and since they never intended to make this their permanent way of life, they felt done.

 

The contrast between the two philosophies is interesting.

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HurricaneVal, I like your two philosophies except I think the difference between the first and second group is that the first group was looking at it as more of a test of their own endurance while the second group was doing this for reasons which didn't have anything to do with the length of time they could last compared to themselves or anyone else.  Once they knew they could achieve it, that was enough.  I think group two already knew they could last indefinitely and weren't in this to prove that to themselves or anyone else while group one did need to prove that to themselves and perhaps others too.

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Interesting article. I still think that it was a fascinating show. I liked reading the bushcraft guys arguing about survival vs. expert. It certainly was an interesting take. I would like the guy who wrote the article to do season 2 or 3. I would like him to put his money where his mouth is. 

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I think to some degree it had to be in a more controlled enviroment than what viewers may have believed... but it's a TV show so it has to be.

 

I don't think for the purposes of a show they can really drop these guys in the middle of nowhere. If something does happen, you don't necessarily want to take half a day to get to them.

 

As long as they were far enough to the point where none of the contestants could take advantage of modern civilization, I think for the purposes of a TV show it was fine.

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Also, Les Stroud posted a recent update on his FB page, and in the middle of it, he listed the various survival shows -- including Alone -- and said they were all fake. Someone asked about Alone specifically in the comments, and he said it was producer staged.

 

Dustin replied to Les on Twitter and said he was at his limit of being called a liar -- that Alone was NOT staged.

 

Isn't Les Stroud spending his time these days hunting Big Foot?

 

I'm not sure he's one to talk as far as how fake a TV show is.

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I think Les should try this show out and see how he does. It's one thing to armchair quarterback and say "I'd have done this....." and another to actually try it.

 

Though it would NEVER happen I'd like to see a sort of Celebrity survivalist Alone... get guys like Les and Cody Lundine and Matt Grahan and Micheal Hawke etc and throw them out there just to see how long they REALLY could last out there.

 

I think Alone was more Survival enthusiests than Survival experts. Not knocking any of them or anything like that... but I suspect it would be potentially a very different show.

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I said it a while back, I was bummed because I think the two who really had strong survival skills and could really have lasted out there a long time tapped out because they were ready to get back to the real world. Lucas dealt with his demons/issues whil ebuilding a boat, a guitar, and a great shelter. Mitch left because he wanted time with his sick Mom after he had figured out how to build a boat, moved his camp, built a good shelter, and was pretty nicely set up.

 

 

This is true.  The different thing about alone was that no one knew how long the challenge was going to last.  I think that was why both Mitch and Lucas left; they could have lasted longer but they didn't want to.  To me that's the difference between this show and other survival shows.  On the other shows, people know how long they're going to stay, so they never have a sense of "we could be here for months."  

 

I call producer manipulation on the "casting" if you will.  I thought it was curious that almost all of the participants were married and had children.  I wonder how different things would have been if most of the participants were single with no children.

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I call producer manipulation on the "casting" if you will.  I thought it was curious that almost all of the participants were married and had children.  I wonder how different things would have been if most of the participants were single with no children.

I've gotten to the point where this doesn't bother me. Producers are interested in "story," and so they cast a variety of character types. One of the forums I read -- can't remember which -- identified the character types in this season, and when they point it out, it's uber obvious. Wish I could remember what they were.

 

Beyond character types, they stacked the deck to make it tougher. They dropped the participants at the north end of the island in mid OCTOBER, right before the worst weather of the year. If they had wanted them to spend a year out there, they would have dropped them in April. They chose people with families -- some even with babies on the way -- because they WANTED them to struggle with the emotional side.

 

It's not in the show's interest to have the participants last a long time. That's expensive! They have to have a team on the island ready to evacuate someone ASAP. They have to have medic out every week, and they have to process all of the film that comes in. Imagine if the show had lasted 10 months. They STILL would have had to cover the events in 10 episodes. Talk about lack of depth and lack of cohesion! That would be a nightmare for a producer.

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I've gotten to the point where this doesn't bother me. Producers are interested in "story," and so they cast a variety of character types. One of the forums I read -- can't remember which -- identified the character types in this season, and when they point it out, it's uber obvious. Wish I could remember what they were.

 

Beyond character types, they stacked the deck to make it tougher. They dropped the participants at the north end of the island in mid OCTOBER, right before the worst weather of the year. If they had wanted them to spend a year out there, they would have dropped them in April. They chose people with families -- some even with babies on the way -- because they WANTED them to struggle with the emotional side.

 

It's not in the show's interest to have the participants last a long time. That's expensive! They have to have a team on the island ready to evacuate someone ASAP. They have to have medic out every week, and they have to process all of the film that comes in. Imagine if the show had lasted 10 months. They STILL would have had to cover the events in 10 episodes. Talk about lack of depth and lack of cohesion! That would be a nightmare for a producer.

 

A tougher show creates more drama. Given that they are reasonably well supplied as opposed to a lot of other survival shows, it's really a camping trip if things aren't tough. And that doesn't necessarily make for good TV. In addition to the cost, like you mentioned.

 

That said, I'll wager even for unmarried people being alone out there for months would take it's toll eventually. I'm sure there are mountain men out there who live those sort of lives... but those sort of people probably aren't trying too hard to get on a TV show anyways.

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Beyond character types, they stacked the deck to make it tougher. They dropped the participants at the north end of the island in mid OCTOBER, right before the worst weather of the year. If they had wanted them to spend a year out there, they would have dropped them in April. They chose people with families -- some even with babies on the way -- because they WANTED them to struggle with the emotional side.

 

It's not in the show's interest to have the participants last a long time. That's expensive! They have to have a team on the island ready to evacuate someone ASAP. They have to have medic out every week, and they have to process all of the film that comes in. Imagine if the show had lasted 10 months. They STILL would have had to cover the events in 10 episodes. Talk about lack of depth and lack of cohesion! That would be a nightmare for a producer.

 

ITA - I thought they picked some guys they knew would freak out and leave early so they'd have a smaller group to manage, and only a few guys they knew could go the distance.  It's drama either way, but at least with a smaller group they could spend more time on each of them.  Plus yes to them putting them in a tough environment purposely with lots of predators.  That place and time was thought out very carefully and chosen because they knew they wouldn't last once the weather got really bad.  All in the name of drama, of course.

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ITA - I thought they picked some guys they knew would freak out and leave early so they'd have a smaller group to manage, and only a few guys they knew could go the distance.  It's drama either way, but at least with a smaller group they could spend more time on each of them.  Plus yes to them putting them in a tough environment purposely with lots of predators.  That place and time was thought out very carefully and chosen because they knew they wouldn't last once the weather got really bad.  All in the name of drama, of course.

 

In a way though it sort of makes sense to put them in a place with large predators. If there isn't enough food for large predators, odds are there isn't enough food for 10 human beings.

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Now that the producers and the network know that this format will work and make money, it would be cool if they did drop the next batch off in April (or someplace where winter isn't so bad) and let this go on for a while.  Maybe run one October/short crew for next spring, and drop off another batch for the next season in March or whatever.

 

The trick with the celebrity version of Alone, I suspect, is that either the contestants would be so willing to show off that things could get out of hand, or that they would just walk out to civilization and say "See?" even when that isn't the point of the show.

 

I wonder if they put trackers on the guys to make sure they don't walk out?  They may have to next season, if they go back to the same area, since I'm sure some are really scoping out the area.  Then again, if they did that, what would they film and turn in?

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I think Les should try this show out and see how he does. It's one thing to armchair quarterback and say "I'd have done this....." and another to actually try it.

Les would kill it. Absolutley kill it. On his own show, where he doesn't have most of what they all got to bring nevermind 10 items to choose, he is able to establish a base camp with a decent shelter, start a fire, find fire, and find food. Then he says something like "If this was a real Survival situation I would stay here and not move because that is stupid but we are going to pretend that I have to move." then he packs up and moves. He makes his life more difficult so that he can show what type of survival skills are needed if someone has to move.

 

So yeah, I have no doubt that Les would crush this show badly. Heck, Bear would be more then fine on this show. His shows might be faked like there is no tomorrow but he does have solid skills, which is one of the reasons his bogus shows are so disappointing.

 

By day 50, Les would have a full shelter, a smoke shack to preserve fish, a boat and probably a rain catchment system built. Especially if he had the gear that these guys had. Les might have done the stupid Big Foot BS but he has done more then enough to demonstrate that he knows what he is doing in the wild. And I think his family lives off grid. Yes, they have solar panels but I think he aims for as off grid as possible.

 

The show needs people who are on Mitch and Lucas level of skill but not folks at Cody, Les, or Bear level skill. They cannot afford for a seaosn to run a year. Paying to have a crew on hand 24/7 to monitor folks is expensive and who knows how exciting the footage will be. If they wanted this to go on for a long time, they would drop people off at the begining of spring when they would have time to build up a good camp, forage for food, preserve food, collect fuel and really prepare for a winter. Dropping them off during the fall greatly reduces the chances that these folks will make it longer then three or four months. The ones who have the skill to do it are going to get bored after they have themselves set up and are less likely to care about the money. Money is great but folks who are hard core survivalists are probably comfortable with living with what they have and less worried about making tons of money. The ones who are there for the money are less likely to have the hard core skills to last a winter.

 

Alan and Sam are good men who have some solid skills but neither of them showed that they had the abilities that Mitch or Lucas have, never mind Les, Bear, or Cody level. They had a great deal of perserverence but the massive weight loss and lack of building a camp that would last the winter makes me think that they are not folks who are real hard core survivalists. I would be fine stranded with them because they know enough to keep you safe and help the group be found by a search party. I don't think I would want to be with them long term because I don't think they have the same skills as Lucas and Mitch.

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Les would kill it. Absolutley kill it. On his own show, where he doesn't have most of what they all got to bring nevermind 10 items to choose, he is able to establish a base camp with a decent shelter, start a fire, find fire, and find food. Then he says something like "If this was a real Survival situation I would stay here and not move because that is stupid but we are going to pretend that I have to move." then he packs up and moves. He makes his life more difficult so that he can show what type of survival skills are needed if someone has to move.

 

So yeah, I have no doubt that Les would crush this show badly. Heck, Bear would be more then fine on this show. His shows might be faked like there is no tomorrow but he does have solid skills, which is one of the reasons his bogus shows are so disappointing.

 

By day 50, Les would have a full shelter, a smoke shack to preserve fish, a boat and probably a rain catchment system built. Especially if he had the gear that these guys had. Les might have done the stupid Big Foot BS but he has done more then enough to demonstrate that he knows what he is doing in the wild. And I think his family lives off grid. Yes, they have solar panels but I think he aims for as off grid as possible.

 

The show needs people who are on Mitch and Lucas level of skill but not folks at Cody, Les, or Bear level skill. They cannot afford for a seaosn to run a year. Paying to have a crew on hand 24/7 to monitor folks is expensive and who knows how exciting the footage will be. If they wanted this to go on for a long time, they would drop people off at the begining of spring when they would have time to build up a good camp, forage for food, preserve food, collect fuel and really prepare for a winter. Dropping them off during the fall greatly reduces the chances that these folks will make it longer then three or four months. The ones who have the skill to do it are going to get bored after they have themselves set up and are less likely to care about the money. Money is great but folks who are hard core survivalists are probably comfortable with living with what they have and less worried about making tons of money. The ones who are there for the money are less likely to have the hard core skills to last a winter.

 

Alan and Sam are good men who have some solid skills but neither of them showed that they had the abilities that Mitch or Lucas have, never mind Les, Bear, or Cody level. They had a great deal of perserverence but the massive weight loss and lack of building a camp that would last the winter makes me think that they are not folks who are real hard core survivalists. I would be fine stranded with them because they know enough to keep you safe and help the group be found by a search party. I don't think I would want to be with them long term because I don't think they have the same skills as Lucas and Mitch.

 

Plus, having real survival experts would make for boring TV. Give a Cody Lundine or a Matt Graham as much gear as the Alone guys got and it's essentially just them setting around camping. It makes for boring TV (though I'm sure we'd learn a heck of a lot more watching them establish themselves).

 

I think this show definately needs people who aren't survival experts. Outdoorsman, but not guys who will turn it into a vacation. People like Matt Graham do this sort of thing for fun, and likely with far less gear.

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I'm sure there are mountain men out there who live those sort of lives... but those sort of people probably aren't trying too hard to get on a TV show anyways.

 

 

Yeah... a famous one that comes to mind is the Unabomber.

 

I live alone, but I have pets. I cannot imagine being alone with no contact of another breathing being. I'd be out there trying to befriend the big cats and make them my temporary pets. HA!

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Plus, having real survival experts would make for boring TV. Give a Cody Lundine or a Matt Graham as much gear as the Alone guys got and it's essentially just them setting around camping. It makes for boring TV (though I'm sure we'd learn a heck of a lot more watching them establish themselves).

 

I think this show definately needs people who aren't survival experts. Outdoorsman, but not guys who will turn it into a vacation. People like Matt Graham do this sort of thing for fun, and likely with far less gear.

That is what I said. "The show needs people who are on Mitch and Lucas level of skill but not folks at Cody, Les, or Bear level skill."

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The marathon got me excited because usually that's a runner-up to a new season. Last I heard, they are filming a second season. Of course, one does wonder if they would start airing the season before the last guy taps out.

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The marathon got me excited because usually that's a runner-up to a new season. Last I heard, they are filming a second season. Of course, one does wonder if they would start airing the season before the last guy taps out.

I thought the same thing. That maybe the new season will start soon.

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Unless they started filming in the summer -- which I doubt they did -- the new season won't start anytime soon. It takes time to edit, and they won't want to start rolling out episodes until they know how much time they need to cover per episode (hours, days, weeks?) and until they have the character arcs nailed down for each character.

 

Now if they started filming in the summer, they might have something for spring. That would make for a whole different show!

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I have just started watching season one, after getting hooked on this show in season two.

I liked season two, but season one is amazing.  The second season often felt like I was watching an instructional video on what to do and not do, if you have to survive on Vancouver Island.

In season one, I felt like I was in the tent with a wild cougar hungrily staring me down, ten feet from my flimsy shelter. 

We learned so many important things, like you have to check you gill net at the dead of night, because that is the time of low tide, when many predators are out hunting.  It was riveting and might have been one of the scariest things I have ever seen on television.

There just was not the same type of connection in the second season.

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4 hours ago, qtpye said:

I have just started watching season one, after getting hooked on this show in season two.

I liked season two, but season one is amazing.  The second season often felt like I was watching an instructional video on what to do and not do, if you have to survive on Vancouver Island.

In season one, I felt like I was in the tent with a wild cougar hungrily staring me down, ten feet from my flimsy shelter. 

We learned so many important things, like you have to check you gill net at the dead of night, because that is the time of low tide, when many predators are out hunting.  It was riveting and might have been one of the scariest things I have ever seen on television.

There just was not the same type of connection in the second season.

I agree with you. Everyone had their favorites for Season 1, but they all seemed pretty worthy, especially final 4. Everybody in the thread last year liked the contestants and sort of cheered them all on regardless if your favorite did not win. Season 2 felt, I don't know...off? Even the thread felt off too.  There seemed to be snipping regarding certain contestants and if you didn't like this one or that one, you felt like you had to defend yourself for liking a specific contestant. After all, the contestant cannot control their edit.  While they did highlight drama in Season 1, I feel like they really went for the OTT drama and trite reality show production techniques in Season 2, which did not appeal to me. I did not like Jose's edit and there was something weird about it. They barely showed him for several episodes in the beginning. He made it to final 3, I think that warrants some edit time.   And I did not like Larry's edit (as much as I dislike him), to me it felt (at times) to be exploitive. Especially to name the episode Madness which is traditionally a pejorative term for mental illness. I mean, we did talk in the thread extensively about Larry and some issues he might have with anger, withdrawal (some wondered if there had ever been a contestant withdrawing from coffee or cigarettes or alcohol and would they be reactive like Larry and what would production do about that pre & post, if anything) or emotional regulation, but even we showed restraint and refrained from calling him "mad". Because we really don't know, do we?  Again, he could be a victim of the edit, in that they showed all of his worst moments to make him look "off" as that served their narrative. They showed only boat moments of Jose and made him boring and showed a redemption arc for David. They did not show some of the stuff Nicole did either. I don't see why they need to edit the "winner" as "better" or different than anyone else. Any of the last 4 or 5 could have won. They are likely all good, nice people. I think they should approach it more documentary style and stay away from reality show trope and let the show be what the contestants are without extra melodramatics needed. 

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I disagree.  I have been watching S1, as well, and find the constant rain forcing them indoors is boring.  And having 6 tap out by the end of week 1, ridiculous.

There was just as much stock footage of eagles and otters, et al, as in S2, there was more drama (ala Larry) in S2, I think.  And the heavy breathing, plus background music was there, as well.  Not to mention editors tryingvto force the drama.

I got invested more in the personalities of S2, because no one stayed long enough in S1, except the final four.  

Both seasons final four were all worthy of winning.  Even F*g Larry and his mouse vendetta.

Edited by roamyn
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59 minutes ago, roamyn said:

I disagree.  I have been watching S1, as well, and find the constant rain forcing them indoors is boring.  And having 6 tap out by the end of week 1, ridiculous.

There was just as much stock footage of eagles and otters, et al, as in S2, there was more drama (ala Larry) in S2, I think.  And the heavy breathing, plus background music was there, as well.  Not to mention editors tryingvto force the drama.

I got invested more in the personalities of S2, because no one stayed long enough in S1, except the final four.  

Both seasons final four were all worthy of winning.  Even F*g Larry and his mouse vendetta.

I never implied that the final 4 in season 2 wasn't worthy of winning, only that the editing was more overt in season 2 IMO.  And there is no way that the producers could prepare for or know that someone is going tap on days 1, 2 & 3 in S1. I bet they were really surprised that Desmond tapped so early in S2, after having the benefit of seeing S1. I liked that we got to know the people more in S1 because there were less people earlier. S2 felt like they made sacrifices and barely showed some people despite the fact that they got to 3rd place (Jose). MMV

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The heavy breathing and the music in S2 is what bothered me, I much preferred S1's quietness. It made it seem more like "you are there" type of thing. 

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1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

The heavy breathing and the music in S2 is what bothered me, I much preferred S1's quietness. It made it seem more like "you are there" type of thing. 

I must be going deaf (I actually did have a major neuro issue with one of my ears), but I don't even remember hearing the breathing! Between trying to read the little white print and trying to hear, I'm lost! lol

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On 9/8/2015 at 10:25 PM, Snarklepuss said:

 

I've considered that myself and I've wondered if the choice of candidates might have intentionally not been limited to those best suited for the challenge.  It may have been producer calculation to choose a few candidates that they knew were under-prepared either psychologically or in terms of skill just to "thin the herd" a bit so that there were only a few left to focus on in the end that could go the distance.  Plus, there was the added TV drama of seeing a few people freak out and flounder.  Alan, Mitch, Lucas and even Sam seemed the most prepared in general to me.  Sam made up for what seemed to be less flexibility in terms of food he was able to trap with his indomitable spirit.  Then again, it may have been just as much of a surprise to the producers as to who lasted the shortest and longest.  I found it interesting how there were a few that left almost immediately, a few who went mid way and others who went almost all the way.  They sort of formed a bell curve, LOL.  I wonder if that's typical of these types of things.

 

"go the distance?" you've got to be kidding.  56 lousy days? That's NOTHING, if you know to make a pontoon outrigger raft, and make  3000 sq ft of  2" mesh netting out of the 20x20 tarp and  splits of local vegetation (like spruce roots)  You only lose about  1/2 lb of bodyfat per day if you just lay around. So as long as you have more than say, 40 lbs of bodyfat, you would not have to do a thing in order to win. That would mean weighing 210 lbs, at  6 ft tall, which is not all that fat, if you've got a lot of muscle. This show is VERY carefully set up to NEVER go beyond 4 months and only rarely exceed  3 months and to normally be over with in 2 months. Once they get enough video for  12 shows, the producers want their expenses out there to end. It costs a ton for their insurance and those rescue/medical eval teams.

Edited by beatu
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