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Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

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I always wondered how Hook cuts his steak.  Hook's hook is part of his persona, it's an extension of who he is.  What I've always loved about him is that they always showed him to be a very, very capable man who doesn't let his limitations faze him and that's a nice message in its own.  I can actually see him picking up a baby if he had to.  I have it worked out in my head too!  Who knows if he won't get stuck with the baby who shall not be named at some point.

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I think the hook is such an iconic part of his character, that it would be a shame to get rid of it. He could occasionally swap it with the fake hand, but I really hope they don't get rid of it for good. If they restore his hand, then detracts from the message that people can push past their trials and frustrations even if there is no complete restoration. 

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Whether he gets his hand back or not, I want it to happen for reasons within the story and not be dictated by the kind of message it sends either way.

His hand was taken by a powerful magical person who (along with a couple others) have the power to restore it. If they can make it part of a bigger story - say a real effort to make amends by Rumple - I'd be ok with it.

I don't think I would like Emma to be the one who restores it. She should accept him as is, and I think she does. Really I think Rumple is the only choice that would work for me as an organic storytelling choice because it wouldn't be about Hook as much as it would be about Rumple actively choosing to undo one of the many damaging choices he's made.

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I think Rumple is the only choice that would work for me as an organic storytelling choice because it wouldn't be about Hook as much as it would be about Rumple actively choosing to undo one of the many damaging choices he's made.

Agreed. I also don't see Hook asking Rumple (or anyone) for his hook back, either. At least not yet. We haven't been shown on screen that Hook wants his hand back yet, but we have been shown scenes of him grinning ear to ear putting his hook back on in front of Emma, Emma handling it seductively in the tavern, and Hook using it to almost save him and Emma from falling into the portal. I think overall, the writers have shown us a lot of positives that can come with having a hook. Even though Hook isn't one to outwardly show the world he's a struggling fish out of water, I think a part of him enjoys taking what should be a disadvantage and making it something useful (and according to Jen, something very weirdly sexy).

 

I just don't know if Hook would actually want to get his hand back if given the option. He's a very self aware and sometimes self loathing person, so a part of him might think that missing a hand is sort of his punishment for all the villainous things he's done for hundreds of years. Maybe he can get his hand back at the end of the series when he's a full blown hero and Rumple reattaches it since they're family now (because: Captain Swan wedding).

 

I also want to see the writers explore some of his other attachments more, too. It would be funny to see Hook continually show up in different situations with a random attachment and no one mentions anything. Like, if he’s cooking eggs in the kitchen with Emma, he has a spatula attachment. And then when they’re cleaning the dishes, he has a little scrubber attachment. Emma’s yellow bug is broken? No problem, Hook has a wrench attachment. Okay, I’m going to stop now before I get too far…

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Really I think Rumple is the only choice that would work for me as an organic storytelling choice because it wouldn't be about Hook as much as it would be about Rumple actively choosing to undo one of the many damaging choices he's made.

And possibly about Rumple's enablers taking a good look at what he's done and what he has the power to undo but hasn't. Henry likes Hook, and there's a good chance that Hook's on the way to being a "dad" figure in Henry's life due to his relationship with Henry's mother and his friendship with Henry's father. What would Henry think about his grandfather holding on to Hook's severed hand when we already know that Rumple can heal magically? Things between Belle and Hook seem to have started thawing, and she may reach the point of realizing that maybe she was wrong about him having a dark heart, and would that mean it would be hard for her to reconcile Rumple's supposed good heart with him keeping the hand?

 

But I would prefer there to be even more plot involved if something like this does happen. Not just "oh, hey, found this hand in my shop and Belle and Henry say I should give it back" but have that be something that maybe gives them a loophole in breaking a spell -- like there's something done to him that keeps them from using magic to fix it, but since there's a part of him that wasn't cursed, they can do the magic on the hand and then reattach it to save him. I think that might be a real test for Rumple, not just restoring his former (?) enemy's hand, but doing so to save his life. Having that hand lying around strikes me as a potential ace in the hole, or maybe a Chekhov's Hand, where they're actually going to need it someday.

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Today I've been thinking about Hook's hand (4 hours in a traffic jam are a lot of time) and, even if would keep the Hook, it can be interesting. It needs to be done right but it would be a good way to close his revenge story and open his new life. Or it can be a way to drag out the angst between him and Emma if it's her who gives it back to him and he thinks it's because she thinks he is unworthy of her.

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It was never treated as a disability in the show, iirc. There wasn't a time when Hook couldn't do something because he had no hand on the limb in question. In fact, it's been the opposite - he's used it to his advantage.

Disabilities really don't make sense on the show because there's a magic cure for everything. Emma could probably rematerialize it if she wanted to. It's basically dependent on Hook's choice.

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It was never treated as a disability in the show, iirc. There wasn't a time when Hook couldn't do something because he had no hand on the limb in question. In fact, it's been the opposite - he's used it to his advantage.

Disabilities really don't make sense on the show because there's a magic cure for everything. Emma could probably rematerialize it if she wanted to. It's basically dependent on Hook's choice.

 

Although Emma did make that comment at the hospital about Hook not being much help with his one hand.   I want Hook to keep his hook.  It's defines his character.  I like that he never wallows in self-pity like Regina and Rumple. 

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Charming was also short with him at Bae's Cave in Neverland when he couldn't get the torch lit quickly. He snatched the flint from him and lit it himself.

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The thing with Hook though is that they never writer him as upset or angry or anything like that.  I think one of the only scenes I remember of him looking really hurt was when he had that conversation in the woods with Emma about whether or not she was considering Walsh's proposal.  I actually think he was more hurt that she walked away from him.

 

I think the whole thing with Charming, I don't think Hook expects anyone to be nice to him because of the pirate thing which was thrown in his face several times, including when he was in the Enchanted Forest when he decided to go find the Jolly Roger.

 

Honestly, the whole hand issue,

I hope he actually has a say whether he wants it back or not, like it doesn't just appear out of thin air.

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Will Hook get a new job this coming season? How is he even paying for anything? Where is he staying? Did he bring over some money from the EF? I want the Show to stop for 5 minutes to show us some developments.

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Will Hook get a new job this coming season? How is he even paying for anything?

My theory from over at TWoP still remains the same: I want him to be a Storybrooke boating instructor. I also like the teacher theory from upthread, since it could connect him better with Snow. Hook already has strong growing friendships with Charming and Henry, so Hook and Snow need something to bond over.

Where is he staying? I want the Show to stop for 5 minutes to show us some developments.

I doubt the show will ever tell us where he's staying. I think if we don't know where someone is staying in town, the writers just want us to assume they're staying at Granny's. (My personal headcanon is that he found the Knave's abandoned apartment and has just been crashing there this whole time.)

Edited by Curio

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Apparently I've been hallucinating. I was absolutely certain that Hook was abandoned by his father when he was seven, but I got to that episode in my rewatch last night, and he just says he was a boy. I don't think he mentions an age at all, and I even rewound that scene to check. Where did I get seven? Was something said on Twitter or in an interview but not in the show? Or did that come when we were trying to fit the revelation about Liam's existence into that story and we figured that if they were five or six years apart, then Liam might have already been off in the navy when Killian was seven?

 

I do think upon rewatching that the story was entirely sincere, or at least Colin was playing it that way. In the commentary, he said that his offer to Bae was totally sincere. He was talking about the way they built the boat set during the backstory scene, but it seems that if his offer for Bae to be a family with him was sincere, he wouldn't have lied about his past. The way he tells the story, as he goes on, he looks like he's almost even forgotten Bae is there as he gets lost in his own past. There's also a slight difference between Hook's truly sincere and his playing sincere. When he's playing sincere, there's a touch of self-consciousness, like he's checking to make sure the other person is buying what he's selling, while when he's being truly sincere, it's like he forgets the other person is even there. Of course, the writers aren't beyond warping characters with no regard to what came before, but for now I'm going with it as the truth and even the reason that he was more interested in being a family with Bae than using him to get revenge on Rumple because the idea of abandonment really hits him.

 

But that makes me want to get a little more Hook backstory, to find out what went on before "Good Form."

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There's also a slight difference between Hook's truly sincere and his playing sincere. When he's playing sincere, there's a touch of self-consciousness, like he's checking to make sure the other person is buying what he's selling, while when he's being truly sincere, it's like he forgets the other person is even there. ...

But that makes me want to get a little more Hook backstory, to find out what went on before "Good Form."

 

I know what you mean. For instance, when he told Gregmara that he was willing to die for his revenge when they had activated the Trigger, one could tell he was only pretending to be sincere. He immediately hightailed it to the Charmings and "told all". 

 

I think Hook's dad did abandon him, but like you said, the writers could retcon it either way at this point. But I don't see why they would--they love giving all their characters daddy and mommy issues (a LOST tradition).

Edited by Rumsy4
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But I don't see why they would--they love giving all their characters daddy and mommy issues (a LOST tradition).

I think that's a writer tradition in general. There are very few fictional characters who come from wonderful, stable homes where they have healthy relationships with their parents, and the few there are serve mostly to provide a contrast for all the rest who don't, so those with mommy or daddy issues can gaze wistfully at what they missed out on. In Hook's case, I think it's a situation where like calls to like -- he tends to recognize and bond with those who are like him because they have a worldview that those who came from secure homes can't grasp.

 

One other thing I noticed upon rewatching "Straight on Til Morning." When they discover at the end that Henry is in Neverland, Rumple and Hook exchanged a meaningful look, kind of like "uh oh, you know what that means." Was there ever any indication that Hook knew Rumple's connection to Neverland or had any reason to believe that Rumple would know the full implications of that? Hook certainly had good reason to know they were in trouble, and Rumple had good reason to know they were in trouble, but would each have known that the other knew?

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Maybe Neverland is the only place where you don't get old. Besides, Rumple studied the dreamshade. Neverland could be the only place where you find that plant. I have no idea how Killian would know about Rumple's connections with Neverland. 

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Something else from the rewatch: A good look at "And Straight on 'Til Morning" makes me think that Henry, and not Emma, was the reason Hook turned back. He barely interacted with Emma after returning to Storybrooke. But the abandoned kid theme was a big part of the episode, with Hook's backstory connecting with Bae's story, then there was a lingering and very pointed reaction shot of Hook watching Regina reassure Henry that he wouldn't be left alone. Then in the diner we also saw Hook reacting to Emma's desperate assertion that she wouldn't leave Henry to be alone and abandoned like she was, and immediately after that he learns that Henry is Bae's son. In any of the group scenes, he spends more time watching Henry than watching Emma. He turned back after looking at the schematic he made for Bae. So it seems like his real motivation was to make sure Bae's son wasn't left all alone the way Bae was and to undo the wrong he did to Bae, first by running off with Bae's mother and leaving Bae behind and then later by turning him over to Pan. Abandoned kids seem to be a real trigger for Hook, and it would be interesting for that to be explored in more depth. If his story to Bae was true, that would explain it, but more specifics might help, as would seeing him dealing with some random lost kid he doesn't have a personal connection to.

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I think I read somewhere that Colin said Hook went back for Emma and Bae. I don't know if I agree with that but I'm guessing that was the writers' intention. But they suck at execution although this one might not totally be their fault. Colin's broken leg probably cut out some bonding time. Just like the scene in the diner, Colin's DVD commentary said something like its interesting that Emma stops David from going after Hook cause Hook and Emma are connected. That didn't translate to me either.

But really I think Hook went back for himself. I don't think it had anything to do with Henry. The last conversation they had I think pretty much spelled out why and that's where the Emma and Bae parts come in. Emma goes I thought you didn't care about anybody. Him looking at the markings he made for Bae reminded that he did care about somebody and that he wanted to care again. Obviously that person that he thought he could possibly come to care for was Emma.

Starting from whenever he was back onscreen Hook's mini-arc was about moving on. He saw that even Rumple had someone that he loved and loved him back and he wanted that, more than revenge because when he thought he had it he wasn't happy. Seeing Rumbelle was where his big epiphany started. The end of this arc for him was coming back, making that choice to move on. So ultimately him turning the ship back was because he wanted to move on. Emma was just a part of that moving on business.

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I don't know if this is the place to post this but Colin has accepted the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge and nominated Josh, Sean and Michael Raymond James.

You can see it here

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What a dork. Love it! Well that was definitely a good shot of his new costume, at least the pants and boots. So glad he ditched the elf boots.

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The video that killed tumblr! Someone mentioned something about Colin working out with a personal trainer recently. I wonder if that means we'll get some shirtless scenes? :)

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I have to say that the wet t-shirt proves that although he looks tiny without the huge coat, he's definitely not scrawny. He just must have an extremely slight frame.

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"Waahay!!"~ The adoring fan-cry of ice bucket loving wet tee shirt contest aficionados everywhere!!!

Edited by BoPeeps
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I guess I wasn't thinking or paying attention in previous times I've watched "Good Form," but I hadn't noticed before that Killian was apparently the navigator on Jewel of the Realm. His brother gave him the sextant and the book of star charts and mentioned that there was no one better to navigate them on this special mission, and he was the one who was given the order to set a course "second star to the right and straight on 'til morning." That fits in with his attempt to teach Henry navigation and what Neal said to Henry in one of the deleted scenes from season two about navigation being complicated and involving a lot of math. That should also mean he's really, really good at math and can probably do complex calculations in his head. They need to let those navigation skills play at some point -- like is he learning our world's constellations just in case (or has he already, since he managed to sail to New York from Maine)? And should he attempt to help Henry with his math homework?

 

When he was talking to Emma about knowing what it's like to lose hope, I wonder if he was talking about his previous time trapped in Neverland, his revenge quest or when his father abandoned him. Although the flashbacks went to the time he lost his brother, I don't think that really fits with the idea of counting off days.

 

I'm still trying to mentally reconcile Liam's presence with the abandonment story. Killian did say that Liam was all he had left. I thought the calling each other "brother" was a bit overdone (yes, we get it, you're brothers). In my adoption theory, that was kind of an inside joke between them, where they knew they weren't biological brothers but kept reinforcing the fact that they'd chosen to be brothers, and it had started when they were kids and Liam's family first took little Killian in, and Liam reassured him by calling him "brother," and it ended up sticking. I got a bit of a grin out of the "Little brother"/"you mean younger brother" thing (even though he was both) because my baby brother likes to call me his "little sister" because I'm so much smaller than he is.

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That should also mean he's really, really good at math and can probably do complex calculations in his head. They need to let those navigation skills play at some point -- like is he learning our world's constellations just in case (or has he already, since he managed to sail to New York from Maine)?

The show really underplays just how intelligent Hook actually is. He never seems too troubled by our modern world (Apparently he can operate a modern boat? How the hell did he learn that?), he appears to enjoy reading for fun, he has a large vocabulary, and like you said - he's probably great at math if he's a navigator. Usually, with rugged bad boy characters like Hook, writers tend to write them as more street smart rather than book smart, so I like that they actually make Hook a little of both. I want to see some more of his book smart side come out, like this:

 

And should he attempt to help Henry with his math homework?

Now I have the mental image of Henry struggling with his math homework at Emma's place, Hook noticing, sitting down with him, and helping him use his protractor and compass. And then Emma sees the two of them working together and it becomes her big lightbulb moment and... (Okay, okay, I'll stop before this becomes fanfic.)

Edited by Curio
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This is what I find unfortunate with the show.  The solution to every bad guy is magic.  What I liked about the finale is that Hook and Emma had to pretty much just rely on each other and their skills.  I wish they'd strip Rumple and Regina of their powers so that characters like David, Hook, Emma (her instincts are to use her gun, not her magic) can actually dispatch someone using their smarts.

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Now I have the mental image of Henry struggling with his math homework at Emma's place, Hook noticing, sitting down with him, and helping him use his protractor and compass. And then Emma sees the two of them working together and it becomes her big lightbulb moment and...

I guess I'm of a snarkier, less romantic bent. I was picturing Hook noticing Henry struggling, taking a look at what he was struggling with, and asking, "How old are you again? And why are you studying such elementary mathematics at your age?" Or else Henry asking for help and Hook launching straight into trigonometry, much to Henry's dismay.

 

I've also envisioned a scene in which team Good Guy is trying to figure out something like a plan or understanding the scope of what the villain's doing that involves some kind of complicated calculation, like the amount of space, distance, amount of time, or whatever, and Hook's been standing on the fringes of the discussion, looking bored, until he finally gets frustrated with them all and throws out a number, and they realize he figured it all out in his head while they were arguing. When they act like they don't believe him and think he just made up a number, he offers to show his work and reminds them that he's a navigator. I think more of this kind of thing would be fun because it's usually the nerdy character who's always doing the math in his head and giving precise numbers when people are trying to guess things like time and distance, and it would be amusing for it to be the leather-clad bad boy who has this trait.

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Today is apparently Talk Like a Pirate Day. I suppose in honor of our friendly neighborhood pirate, we should find a thesaurus and choose the biggest possible word for each usage, call people "love" and say "bloody hell" a lot.

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I'd like to see a comprehensive list of every "big" vocabulary word Hook has ever used on the show so far. I know there's probably a tumblr blog for it out there somewhere... I'm just too lazy to look right now.

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Hah I was just about to post that video, with a similar mention of the Beatles. :) I heard he got the loudest cheers when he came on stage also, and he did his little entrance jig that he always does. What an adorkable guy.

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I just read something on Tumblr about how Kat, the girl that worked with Colin on The Dust Storm, and who was starting the band Chyld with Colin, unfriended Colin on twitter, and the Chyld Twitter account has been deleted. She also posted a cryptic tweet: "Being led on is the worst, & wanting recognition for something you haven't worked for is lame. Be honest & up front."  I'm not trying to start any rumors, but has anyone heard anything more about this? I was really looking forward to hearing the songs they were working on! Also, I thought it was strange that Colin didn't mention the band when he was on Good Day LA, and the topic turned to music. 

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No clue, but the Reddit chat did get canceled at the last minute with no real explanation. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a musical collaboration didn't work out. Honestly, I think the ones that DO work out are more the exception!

Edited by Souris

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Yeah, I don't know what she expected when she was forming a band with a full-time actor who is one of the male leads of a year-long 22-episode broadcast television series. Who also has a wife and kid and lives in another country most of the year.

 

I could see it as a "hey I like your style of playing, we should totally make a band, it would be so cool, lets try and do it when we have some free time, oh shit, I actually have no free time, let's put this on permanent hiatus..." kind of situation. I know I've tried to start up projects where I thought I'd have enough time to do it, only to be forced to have that awkward conversation when you have to admit you're actually way too busy.

 

Also, this might sound mean... but the name Chyld Music is really lame. Maybe it's all for the best.

Edited by Curio

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Yeah. As soon as I heard about it, I was like, "And when do you plan to do that?"

It just seemed like a project born of the excitement of working on something music-related again for Colin, but OUAT doesn't really lend itself to free time. The time he has, he will obviously be spending with his family or resting.

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Meh, I hope he's not super fazed by it. If anything, she kind of comes off looking immature for using social media to complain about her life issues passive aggressively. I'm sorry, but shouldn't you grow out of that phase in high school? (Maybe this is why I don't do social media anymore.) Why would an adult purposely make things awkward with another adult who you were co-workers with? Do you honestly think you won't run into them again? Wouldn't the adult thing to do in this situation be: call up the person on the phone - or hell, even text - and say that you didn't like something they did? This is all assuming, of course, that tweet is addressing Colin in some way. Maybe it's not.

 

Anyways, back to Captain Hook. I was thinking the other day about how some interviewer asked Adam and Eddy if Hook was going to continue being a lovesick puppy towards Emma, and they quickly shot down the idea that he acts that way. But I actually kind of like the puppy analogy in a really weird way. I mean, I guess if we're going to use animal metaphors here, dogs are extremely loyal to the people they love, they're always by their master's side, they're obedient when they're told to do something, they will be aggressive towards anyone who they find a threat, they sometimes get into stupid situations because they don't know any better, and they generally have an upbeat personality that aims to please their master.

 

Emma, on the other hand, has always reminded me of a cat. Cats are very independent and skittish, prone to run away when something scares them, take a while to warm up to their masters (especially if they're an adopted adult cat), take a lot of prodding from their masters to join them to do something, but once they trust their human they're on their lap for life. 

 

I'm so sorry, everyone. The hiatus has reduced my brain down to comparing Once characters to animals. Only 4 more days...

Edited by Curio
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That's OK. This is what the hiatus did to my brain after reading your post, Curio.

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Ghostbusters: The movie that pretty much described Once Upon a Time before it was even made. I mean seriously, replace "forty" with "twenty-eight" and that's practically Regina and her curse, no? And of course then, based on your theory, Venkman would naturally have a soft spot for Hook's spirit animal.

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Oh yeah--I agree that was petty, Curio. Love your comparison of Killian and Emma to dogs and cats. Ha!

I wonder if Killian will take up a job in Storybrooke this season. I mean--he'll have to sooner or later. Boat-tour operator seems rather mundane. He could take up fishing, I suppose. Or, he could work at the Sheriff's office--after all, he's already part of team running-around. He could teach Navigation by Stars to students of Storybrooke High School. After all, parents may want their children to keep up with EF lore and skills in case they get ripped back by the next Curse.

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I wonder if Killian will take up a job in Storybrooke this season. I mean--he'll have to sooner or later. Boat-tour operator seems rather mundane. He could take up fishing, I suppose. Or, he could work at the Sheriff's office--after all, he's already part of team running-around. He could teach Navigation by Stars to students of Storybrooke High School.

Back in the TWOP days, I speculated about him being a substitute teacher. I figure that if he has experience captaining a pirate ship, he might be able to handle junior high kids (but only if he's allowed to bring weapons). Since he was a navigator, he'd have pretty extensive math knowledge. He actually lived history in the Enchanted Forest, and he's pretty well-traveled there, so he'd be good at keeping Enchanted Forest kids up on their roots. He's smart and thinks well on his feet. He's adapted surprisingly well to our world, so I don't think it would take him long to read up on our world well enough to teach out of a textbook. And there's fun for some potential culture clash stuff with kids who have cursed memories. Based on the address to Neal's place he gave Emma, his handwriting is an old-fashioned script, which isn't really what's taught in schools these days. The kids would be more comfortable with modern technology than he is.

 

But I don't see how he'd have time for that in all the plot, plot, plot, so I imagine that if they even bother giving him a job, it'll be something to do with the sheriff's office, just as a way of using his skill set and keeping him part of the action. Maybe shore patrol?

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I wondered what kind of cursed personality Hook would have gotten if he had been taken with the curse.  I'm thinking he would have straight laced pre-Hook Killian Jones who obeyed by the rules and couldn't stomach rum drinking.

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