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7 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Doesn't Dean say that "this is how it has to happen" in the promo?-so I'm assuming that his dying in the cage(or by whatever he's welding together) is a part of the description of his death in the book.

It's hard to tell from the promo, but it almost looks like Dean was trying to shoot Sam.  I could be mixing that up with something.

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dean`s scene in a "bad physical place" might just the only nod to the ongoing Michael thing. And I believe this moment he is supposed to have with Cas relates to that also. 

This is what I'm thinking, kind of like when Lucifer was tormenting Sam, I'm guessing Michael won't let Dean sleep or rest.  In a perfect world they'd use these next two episodes showing Michael trying to fight, and its physical effect on Dean, and then Michael just stopping so Dean can be normal for episode 300, and Michael hoping to catch Dean off guard.

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It's hard to tell from the promo, but it almost looks like Dean was trying to shoot Sam.  I could be mixing that up with something.

Dean was outside, gun drawn and checking the environment. Sam appeared next to him and that`s why he ended up with the gun in his face. But even in the promo you can tell from their expressions that this is the old "woah, it`s just me" "man, you startled me, I could have shot you" situation.

If they keep the Michael situation going, Zachariah coming back for ep 300 alterna world also makes more sense. That dude would either gloat up a storm about Dean finally being "possessed" or bitch to kingdom come that he died for it and then it happened anyway years later with a different Michael. I can imagine an epic "fuck my life" from him. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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Just now, Aeryn13 said:

Dean was outside, gun drawn and checking the environment. Sam appeared next to him and that`s why he ended up with the gun in his face. But even in the promo you can tell from their expressions that this is the old "woah, it`s just me" "man, you startled me, I could have shot you" situation.

thanks.  I guess I'm mixing the scenes up or its because the "this is how it has to be" was the next part of the promo.

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13 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is what I'm thinking, kind of like when Lucifer was tormenting Sam, I'm guessing Michael won't let Dean sleep or rest.  In a perfect world they'd use these next two episodes showing Michael trying to fight, and its physical effect on Dean, and then Michael just stopping so Dean can be normal for episode 300, and Michael hoping to catch Dean off guard.

So basically The Born-Again Identity? Heh.

I wonder if they are bringing the prophet back into the picture to lead the way to a reappearance of Chuck? They took great pains to show that Michael's beef was with God, and that it is indeed one God responsible for all these 'verses. I hope the Michael arc doesn't end with a repeat performance of S11, but it wouldn't surprise me if Chuck shows up at some point before the end.

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9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is what I'm thinking, kind of like when Lucifer was tormenting Sam, I'm guessing Michael won't let Dean sleep or rest.  In a perfect world they'd use these next two episodes showing Michael trying to fight, and its physical effect on Dean, and then Michael just stopping so Dean can be normal for episode 300, and Michael hoping to catch Dean off guard.

This also makes sense-especially if they're doing a redux of the wall storyline-which would work for me if it means that at the end of the season we could get an episode similar to The Man Who Knew Too Much, but for Dean this time.

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

So basically The Born-Again Identity? Heh.

I wonder if they are bringing the prophet back into the picture to lead the way to a reappearance of Chuck? They took great pains to show that Michael's beef was with God, and that it is indeed one God responsible for all these 'verses. I hope the Michael arc doesn't end with a repeat performance of S11, but it wouldn't surprise me if Chuck shows up at some point before the end.

I was thinking that they might bring chuck/God back, too-but I can't see Michael being appeased as easily as Amara was, that's for sure.

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I think that there's something written on the page.

Billie even looked like she felt bad for Dean and IMO, Dean was reading something that prompted that plethora of emotions that crossed his face.

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9 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I was thinking that they might bring chuck/God back, too-but I can't see Michael being appeased as easily as Amara was, that's for sure.

Nope, and I don't think the family talk therapy that worked (temporarily) with Lucifer will work with Michael, either. If they do bring him back, I'd expect an actual showdown this time. That's why I'm wondering about the Donatello episode. We know (ha) that there can only be one prophet at a time, and since D is neither dead nor alive, there isn't a working prophet at the moment. Maybe there needs to be one to foretell the Chuck/Michael battle? Hell, maybe that's what Dean saw in the book - he will die fighting God.

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Nope, and I don't think the family talk therapy that worked (temporarily) with Lucifer will work with Michael, either. If they do bring him back, I'd expect an actual showdown this time. That's why I'm wondering about the Donatello episode. We know (ha) that there can only be one prophet at a time, and since D is neither dead nor alive, there isn't a working prophet at the moment. Maybe there needs to be one to foretell the Chuck/Michael battle? Hell, maybe that's what Dean saw in the book - he will die fighting God.

You could hear it during the monologue, that Michael used to be like a lot of angels with the "where did he go and why?" And then he took Dean as a vessel, got access to his memories and learned what Chuck had been up to. He was hardcore done after that. Way more than Lucifer who just loves to hear himself whine more than anything.

I`m not sure they`ll be bringing Chuck back, though. I kinda envision the Michael storyline is going to be closed this Season. And the cliffhanger/set-up for next year are going to be: Cas dragged off to the Empty (he will be happy that Dean is saved) and Jack trying to save him so he burns up his soul, giving us "Dark!Nougat".

Then the brothers would be more reactionary to outside problems again in Season 15. I kinda don`t see either one being "other" again soon.    

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You guys are killing me with the Sam killing Dean spec. But it's good. It's really good. 

 

We know they will sacrifice themselves. But will they sacrifice each other? 

Edited by Bobcatkitten
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52 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

hen the brothers would be more reactionary to outside problems again in Season 15. I kinda don`t see either one being "other" again soon.    

There is another version of Sam coming up.  Im guessing prophet Sam

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There is another version of Sam coming up.  Im guessing prophet Sam

Possible with Bucklemming who give no fucks about lore at all. Though in that case, I`d see it happening as kind of an interim thing. No idea what it means these days to be a prophet even. God is not sending word for the foreseeable future.    

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1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

I think that there's something written on the page.

Billie even looked like she felt bad for Dean and IMO, Dean was reading something that prompted that plethora of emotions that crossed his face.

I think Billie looked just as perplexed as Dean. That said, if it turns out that Dean cannot die and your  interpretation is accurate, I think she would feel bad for him if he can't die.

Edited by catrox14
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51 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think Billie looked just as perplexed as Dean. That said, if it turns out that Dean cannot die and your  interpretation is accurate, I think she would feel bad for him if he can't die.

But if it was that he can't die, then wouldn't all his books change to that, not just the one? My head hurts. LOL!

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3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But if it was that he can't die, then wouldn't all his books change to that, not just the one? My head hurts. LOL!

Not necessarily.  I think that's an either/or.  Either Dean fails and Michael takes full possession and burns the world, OR Dean continues to contain Michael indefinitely.  thus immortality for Dean.  Not sure of episode name but I think when Cas used Claire he told Jimmy he'd never die as long as Cas used him as a vessel.

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34 minutes ago, Cambion said:

Not necessarily.  I think that's an either/or.  Either Dean fails and Michael takes full possession and burns the world, OR Dean continues to contain Michael indefinitely.  thus immortality for Dean.  Not sure of episode name but I think when Cas used Claire he told Jimmy he'd never die as long as Cas used him as a vessel.

But by their nature, the books are the record of death. She specifically says he dies the same way in all the books on the shelf now - by Michael taking over and destroying the world -save one. She doesn't say he lives forever trapped inside Michael (presumably the only survivor of his apocalypse). And in the one book, he still dies, some other way. Otherwise it wouldn't be a story for one of those books.

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6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But if it was that he can't die, then wouldn't all his books change to that, not just the one? My head hurts. LOL!

I'd have to watch it again but I thought she said all those books showed Dean dying only one way. I don't recall if she said the other book said he would die another way. 

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First, I don’t the page CAN be blank as anything Dean thinks up could be written on one of the other failed 14,000 options.  

So, it’s specific and VERY sad. 

I’d guess that Dean goes in the box and lives a few centuries - alone -  driven insane by Michael - before finally dying. 

And Sam is sad because he accepts Dean’s solution.  

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10 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

There is another version of Sam coming up.  Im guessing prophet Sam

What if it's prophet Jack since he's "nothing" right now and Sam going darkside, drinking demon blood again to gain powers, in the fight against Michael!Dean when Dean temporarily loses control?

I foresee the realistic death for Dean in this situation is either the box for eternity or the Empty with Micheal but of course they will come up with some stupid BM crap in the season finale for the brother bond fans to oh and ah over, no matter how unrealistic much like S10. Meanwhile, this Deanfan will be hoping for the realistic option and an actual real storyline that takes thought next season to resolve instead of the cut and paste, color by numbers, super Sam, writer pets crap this season has been. 

Edited by Res
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1 hour ago, SueB said:

First, I don’t the page CAN be blank as anything Dean thinks up could be written on one of the other failed 14,000 options.  

So, it’s specific and VERY sad. 

I’d guess that Dean goes in the box and lives a few centuries - alone -  driven insane by Michael - before finally dying. 

And Sam is sad because he accepts Dean’s solution.  

I could actual live with this since I had to live with S5's finale.

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Fair enough, Res, I can see your point.  It was pretty bad. It just hurts my heart to think of either of them locked away for centuries going insane, to die alone.  After all they've done and sacrificed, they deserve better.  Maybe Billie would see it as fitting payback for all the interfering they've done with the natural order.  Still, that scenario seriously sucks. 

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1 minute ago, trudysmom said:

Fair enough, Res, I can see your point.  It was pretty bad. It just hurts my heart to think of either of them locked away for centuries going insane, to die alone.  After all they've done and sacrificed, they deserve better.  Maybe Billie would see it as fitting payback for all the interfering they've done with the natural order.  Still, that scenario seriously sucks. 

Although, as a fan of Jensen, I would relish the idea of seeing him playing a Dean that has gone crazy.  That's why I was disappointed when it was AU Michael that Jensen played because I would have loved to see him play crazy, gone insane Michael. 

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11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Although, as a fan of Jensen, I would relish the idea of seeing him playing a Dean that has gone crazy.  That's why I was disappointed when it was AU Michael that Jensen played because I would have loved to see him play crazy, gone insane Michael. 

I agree with this, because even though it only lasted 2 episodes, I absolutely adored crazy!Cas!

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Here's a thought: what if it's Mary who is destined to kill Dean?  That would be something different, would elicit the same kind of reaction from Dean as if it were Sam. Why is he going to the cabin now? And it might offer Sam this unimaginable choice, between Mary & Dean, if* she were on board with it and Sam wasn't. That'd be a swerve.

 

*I say if, but we all know the ice queen wouldn't bat an eye if it came down to it

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1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Here's a thought: what if it's Mary who is destined to kill Dean?  That would be something different, would elicit the same kind of reaction from Dean as if it were Sam. Why is he going to the cabin now? And it might offer Sam this unimaginable choice, between Mary & Dean, if* she were on board with it and Sam wasn't. That'd be a swerve.

 

*I say if, but we all know the ice queen wouldn't bat an eye if it came down to it

That would be interesting.  Mary would probably enjoy it. 

It would also be interesting if we see a call back to season 4/7 when Dean said he used pain to know what was real and what wasn't.  I'm sure Michael will try to trick Dean, and I wonder if he would use this trick to keep him grounded.

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3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Although, as a fan of Jensen, I would relish the idea of seeing him playing a Dean that has gone crazy.  That's why I was disappointed when it was AU Michael that Jensen played because I would have loved to see him play crazy, gone insane Michael. 

I completely agree, especially after seeing some of Jensen's movies. And I agree it sucks if eternity in the cage is Dean's ending but there really aren't any good endings in store for Dean are there?

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Maybe Dean becomes Death...the only being powerful enough to house Michael forever or cast him somewhere where he would do no harm.  Killing Sam or any loved one doesn't make a lot of sense  just because death doesn't mean anything on the show.  

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24 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Maybe Dean becomes Death...the only being powerful enough to house Michael forever or cast him somewhere where he would do no harm.  Killing Sam or any loved one doesn't make a lot of sense  just because death doesn't mean anything on the show.  

And we would get a payoff at last for Dean killing OG!Death.

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If its not some kind of fake reality I hope when John sees the bunker that someone takes the moment to tell him Henry wasn't an ass

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It occurs to me that Michael said to Dean, "Even if you could force me out, what do you think I'd leave behind? You'd be nothing but blood and bone."

Could that be what the book says? They eject Michael and cage him, but he destroys Dean on the way out? Maybe that's what he's doing at the cabin, building the cage that will hold him, knowing it means his own death. 

It could explain the "it has to be this way", and also Sam's unimaginable choice: to help Dean eject Michael, knowing it will kill Dean.

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Colleen Bement: You have a guest spot coming up on one of CW’s hottest shows. What are you allowed to share about your experience on the set of “Supernatural?”

Jaycie Dotin: I do! The episode (Season 14 Episode 12) airs on Jan 31st and I am so excited to see it. I’m still in shock that I was given the opportunity to be a part of this iconic show. I can’t reveal exactly what my role was yet but, let’s just say that diehard SPN fans will be pretty surprised to see this character come back after several seasons. Her original storyline was a huge driving factor for one of the lead characters and her return will help him decided how to navigate the new situation he has found himself in. (Very vague, I know…just watch the episode!) Everyone from the cast and crew were incredible to work with and it will definitely be an experience to remember. I want to send my biggest thanks to everyone involved for making it one for the books!

https://nerdalertnews.net/supernatural-guest-star-jaycie-dotin-talks-return-of-character-from-the-past/#Supernatural

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3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ruby, helping Sam be Lucifer?

Or another demon helping Sam manage demon blood drinking.

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38 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ruby, helping Sam be Lucifer?

Ruby would fit with the description in the interview but her return would be pretty redundant. And why would anyone need help being Lucifer?

Who else is a "she" from several Seasons ago and whose "storyline was a driving factor for one of the leads"? Bela as a demon? She wasn`t a driving factor for anyone. Neither was Anna really. 

If speculation for Prophet!Sam during this episode is correct, I still wouldn`t know which character should come back and help him with that?

And if the brother in question was Dean, I still wouldn`t know who would come back from the past. 

I dread episode 12. Bucklemming will fuck it up.

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39 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ruby, helping Sam be Lucifer?

I thought Ruby but would they really not being back Genevieve? If not Ruby, and it's Dean related maybe a recast Tessa or Anna.

If it's Cas related maybe Meg.

But I'm thinking a recast Crowley because they had Sam name drop him last week.

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42 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ruby, helping Sam be Lucifer?

Stupid Ruby was my first thought, too. Ugh. I don't want to see that kill undone. I loved it.

Tessa would be fantastic, but I loved the gal who originally played her.

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But I'm thinking a recast Crowley because they had Sam name drop him last week.

The actress said "her original storyline", I took it to mean the character from Seasons past is female. 

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47 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

IMDb shows her character as Sarah. 

So much for her original story being "a driving factor" for Sam, but then I never believed her to be his One True Love (since they never mention Jessica any more.)  Maybe, since the ep has Donatello screwing with the timeline, her return here makes him have to decide whether to return the world back to the present (thus she'd be dead again), except wouldn't that be a repeat of, oh, WIAWSNB, episode 13 (the one after this one) and, IDK, My Heart Will Go On?

Maybe I'll skip the ep.  

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IMDb shows her character as Sarah. 

So much for her original story being "a driving factor" for Sam, but then I never believed her to be his One True Love (since they never mention Jessica any more.)  Maybe, since the ep has Donatello screwing with the timeline, her return here makes him have to decide whether to return the world back to the present (thus she'd be dead again), except wouldn't that be a repeat of, oh, WIAWSNB, episode 13 (the one after this one) and, IDK, My Heart Will Go On?

I`m not sure that means Sarah from Season 1 and whenever she died. Her "character" name in the episode might be Sarah but I think it would be a previous supernatural being. 

The summary says that Donatello is scrambling the order of future prophets. Which, I thought, all the candidates were killed but whatever. Apparently there are new ones because Bucklemming. 

I don`t think it will be an altered timeline for the reason that episode 13 aka 300th is and they won`t do it twice in a row. 

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I wonder if it could be Kevin. (I know it says her, but sometimes male vessels take female vessels) to help Sam be a prophet.

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3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m not sure that means Sarah from Season 1 and whenever she died. Her "character" name in the episode might be Sarah but I think it would be a previous supernatural being. 

The summary says that Donatello is scrambling the order of future prophets. Which, I thought, all the candidates were killed but whatever. Apparently there are new ones because Bucklemming. 

I don`t think it will be an altered timeline for the reason that episode 13 aka 300th is and they won`t do it twice in a row. 

I hope you're right, but this is BuckLemming.  They have no clue.  I have no faith.  (And her picture in IMDb does look like "original" Sarah.)  Maybe someone else takes her image to shake up Sam.  

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I wonder if it could be Kevin. (I know it says her, but sometimes male vessels take female vessels) to help Sam be a prophet.

Possible. Though then I don`t know if they wouldn`t book Osric for a guest appearance as a ghost or something. I don`t think there is bad blood with him and the show. Scheduling issues maybe? 

Quote

I hope you're right, but this is BuckLemming.  They have no clue.  I have no faith.  (And her picture in IMDb does look like "original" Sarah.)  Maybe someone else takes her image to shake up Sam.  

Like with Osric, I think they would be trying for Taylor Cole if it was Sarah.

The only "re-cast" that would make sense are Meg, Ruby, Bela, Anna, Tessa. Who could all feasibly have new vessels. Though even  with the latter three, I`d see them going for the original actresses. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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49 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

IMDb shows her character as Sarah. 

So much for her original story being "a driving factor" for Sam, but then I never believed her to be his One True Love (since they never mention Jessica any more.)  Maybe, since the ep has Donatello screwing with the timeline, her return here makes him have to decide whether to return the world back to the present (thus she'd be dead again), except wouldn't that be a repeat of, oh, WIAWSNB, episode 13 (the one after this one) and, IDK, My Heart Will Go On?

Maybe I'll skip the ep.  

I'm going to guess that it IS S1 Sarah simply because this fits with what the present writing team would likely do, IMO. 

IOW, it would be a predictable type of "surprise"-which Pamela was in last week's episode, IMO-and this, even though I think I liked her better in last week's episode than I ever have before(she was never all that to me; my favorite bit from her, up until this one, was the one in Dark Side of the Moon and I was happy that they went with more of a take on her in that one because that WAS the last time Dean(and we) saw her.

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1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

The actress said "her original storyline", I took it to mean the character from Seasons past is female. 

Ah, thanks!

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I'm going to guess that it IS S1 Sarah simply because this fits with what the present writing team would likely do, IMO. 

IOW, it would be a predictable type of "surprise"-which Pamela was in last week's episode

But they brought the actress for Pamela back. I wouldn`t understand why they would not do the same for any human character, even after their death. If it`s supposed to be some kind of Easter Egg of "rememeber them from...", then for humans, that doesn`t work with new actors. And this new actress and Taylor Cole aren`t really look-alikes.   

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55 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The summary says that Donatello is scrambling the order of future prophets. Which, I thought, all the candidates were killed but whatever. Apparently there are new ones because Bucklemming.

They are contradicting their own rules that they changed LOL in s11.  Chuck said he made all the prophets and knows them all. It was said that no prophet would appear until the one preceding it died, I don't recollect their being an order of prophets. That's a canon rewrite.  But you know they basically just said that they will and can rewrite whatever they want with Michael say God just starts over.  At this point, canon means fuck all and it never will again.  IMO

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I just noticed something. In the "Onward" Promo, you have Lucifer holding/torturing a woman who I think could be this new actress.

Checked back on imdb and the Season 5 Premiere "Sympathy for the Devil" where Lucifer impersonated Nick`s dead wife to get him to say yes, it lists the character name as "Sarah/Lucifer". Yes, the actress was different but maybe by "one of the leads", she is talking about Pellegrino?

It would all fit.    

Edited by Aeryn13
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3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I just noticed something. In the "Onward" Promo, you have Lucifer holding/torturing a woman who I think could be this new actress.

Checked back on imdb and the Season 5 Premiere "Sympathy for the Devil" where Lucifer impersonated Nick`s dead wife to get him to say yes, it lists the character name as "Sarah/Lucifer". Yes, the actress was different but maybe by "one of the leads", she is talking about Pellegrino?

It would all fit.    

Now that's a definite and likely possibility...

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