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Tara Ariano

S01.E03: And The Horns Of A Dilemma

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I feel much better now that Christian Kane's character told Cassandra he doesn't trust her, because I thought they were making that a little too easy for her. I'd prefer that he wait until, say, she can talk about it without getting self-righteous about how justified her decision to betray them/the world was.

I loved that evil yuppie lady figured out a way to maximize efficiencies in human sacrifice. I bet she came from a really competitive MBA program. Also, I kept thinking I recognized her. I think she was Ivana Milicevic, who was the fantasy woman in House's bus hallucination in House's Head.

Edited by Julia
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I loved that evil yuppie lady figured out a way to maximize efficiencies in human sacrifice. I bet she came from a really competitive MBA program. Also, I kept thinking I recognized her. I think she was Ivana Milicevic, who was the fantasy woman in House's bus hallucination in House's Head.

 

Heck no, that was Tricia Helfer -- she played Cylon Number Six on the reboot version of Battlestar Galactica. Still tough to think of her without that very red dress she frequently wore in that show.

 

I figured she probably went to Wharton -- that's the MBA school that Donald Trump is big on, so it has to be evil. </snark>

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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Yep, even before she took the hood off, as soon as she spoke, I was like "Now, that sounds like Tricia Helfer!"  I guess this was a bit of an appetizer, for that Ascension miniseries she's going to be in Monday.  I will say that if the show keeps casting genre faves like her, Matt Frewer, and next week's Bruce Campbell (not to mention, human Minotaur was played by Tyler Mane a.k.a. Sabertooth from X-Men and Michael Myers in the Halloween reboots), I'll probably keep sticking around.

 

I did think it was better then first two episodes.  The characters are kind of starting to gel and interact better.  I'm glad Cassandra's betrayal isn't being ignored, and Jack still has issues over it.  On the other hand, I do think it makes sense that Ezekiel is more forgiving, since he's probably the one who has done more harm in his past work, and doesn't judge.  Baird is still a bit dull, but a bit better; she at least is starting to show humor.  And, I thought Jenkins was improved; a bit more helpful, and John Larroquette toned down the scenery chewing.

 

I do have to continue to just laugh at the visual effects (man, that Minotaur was awful!  I think I've seen better on BBC shows), and just handwave a lot of what is going on.  I literally didn't get about 75% of these guys solutions and explanations about magic and whatnot, and just had to go "Whatever" about it.  I don't think this is high up on the writers/creators list, and I willing to go with it... for now.

 

Still pumped up for next week though, because again: Bruce Campbell.  As Santa Claus.  Brilliant!

Edited by thuganomics85
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While realizing this is based off a comic book, I am hoping that the dialogue/writing rises above the current level.  I'm not sure what their target audience is, but after three hours of Scooby Gang plotlines, I'm about ready to toss the towel.

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The first 2 episodes had lots of library meta-references, but I guess they figured that's too small of a segment of the audience to continue to cater to. In this episode the props people had the books behind them all out of order. There were Supreme Court volumes (tan with red and black on the spines) randomly separated by various other books of different colors, all slouching over on the shelves. Hmmm...maybe the architects who designed my library's renovation were consultants for the show: All about looks, not functionality.

If the thread was so powerful, shouldn't they either burn it up or give it to some benevolent overlords?

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I do have to continue to just laugh at the visual effects (man, that Minotaur was awful! 

 

 

It has a way to go before it's good enough to be called "awful" It looked like someone dyed a wookie costume & stuck some horns on it.

 

Cassandra still bugs, & it looks like they're going to keep her in very short skirts or shorts all the time which also bugs.

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I loved that evil yuppie lady figured out a way to maximize efficiencies in human sacrifice. I bet she came from a really competitive MBA program. Also, I kept thinking I recognized her. I think she was Ivana Milicevic, who was the fantasy woman in House's bus hallucination in House's Head.

As noted above, Eeevil CEO of Evil was played by Tricia Helfer.  Ivana Milicevic has a gig on Banshee over on Skinemax, which is also a good show.

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I thought Tricia Helfer was great, and the plot was pretty good.  It was nice seeing Jenkins be such an important part of the group as well.

 

Also liked Jake admitting that while he likes Cassandra, he doesn't trust her, and her actions reinforced his previously held beliefs of not trusting anyone.  I understand a little bit on why she betrayed them, but it also seems a little 'too fast/plot contrivance', because she never even gave Flynn/the Library a chance to make that offer too.  I also don't care too much for that kindof weak-kneed waif-like type of character, which she seems to be.

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I can't look at Cassandra and not think "thinking man's Emma Pillsbury."  I keep waiting for her to whip out the hand sanitizer.

 

ETA:

Was there a reason the title of the episode was:

The Librarians and the Horns of a Dilemma
instead of:
The Librarians on the Horns of a Dilemma ?

Probably to fit the pattern they've selected for episode titles.  Like all Friends episodes were "The One With The...," and Bones episodes are all "The _____ in/on/of the _____,"these all seem to be "And The..."

Edited by Lovecat
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I forgot the show was on until it was half over and thought I could catch up today but my service provider is not on TNT's list of providers. I really miss when I could go to a site and at least catch up on a show I missed the last few days.

 

Guess this show will be a miss for me as I don't have a way to watch missed shows and it is not compelling enough for me to do anything about it.  It is too bad as it looked like a fun diversion.

Edited by madfortv

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Cassandra still bugs, & it looks like they're going to keep her in very short skirts or shorts all the time which also bugs.

 

She bothered me more every time she spoke -- the mannerisms, the clothes, the tremulous voice, the doubting, then shouting. And her muttered "solutions" will never make sense to me. May as well ditch the wavering graphics and just have her cock her head, snap her fingers, and say she's got it.

 

Not sure I can get past all of that to watch any longer since the other characters so far aren't any deeper or more interesting. I got nothing against Rebecca Romijn but am not buying her as a hardass Colonel of anything, even chicken.

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I really like this show, and enjoy some of the chemistry between the characters.  But seeing Devlin's latest "thief" just makes me miss both Parker and Hardison, especially with Smart!Elliot there.  I'd rather have both of them jump to this show, and have them interact with the magical items.  Hardison would totally geek out on every artifact.  Parker would do her thing, and then play with the shiny toys. 

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With you on the Cassandra business, lordonia. I am tired of the cutesie, womangirl waif type that I puke all over their childish clothes and general preciousness.

 

I laughed at all of the law books, shapeshifter. So immediately recognizable to anyone who works in a library. I wonder why TV libraries are always so well stocked with U.S. Reports and all of the West series. I laughed out loud at the state code of Rhode Island behind Noah Wiley in the pilot.

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It has a way to go before it's good enough to be called "awful" It looked like someone dyed a wookie costume & stuck some horns on it.

At least somebody recognized the problem and had the minotaur be in human form most of the time.

 

 

I wonder why TV libraries are always so well stocked with U.S. Reports and all of the West series.

I presume they use whatever they can get cheap/free.

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Every time I looked at Cassandra I kept thinking it was that teacher in Glee that I often can't stand. 

That would be the Emma Pillsbury referenced above.  And yes, every time she comes onscreen I find myself staring hard to make sure it's *really* not Jayma Mays playing the role.

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The cold open was so incredibly reminiscent of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode--complete with cheesy monster and mysterious monks--that when Christian Kane made his entrance, I expected to see Lindsey's evil hand.  I'm liking it so far. 

 

I also completely agree with the Emma Pillsbury comparison, but I do like that Cassandra is a smarty pants.  A whacko smarty pants, but a smarty pants nonetheless.

 

I laughed out loud at the state code of Rhode Island behind Noah Wiley in the pilot.

Me too!  It was so visible that it just jumped out at you.  I wondered at the time if it was some sort of meta comment, as later we'll learn the American Hogwarts is located in Rhode Island.  But then I just went naaaaah, just set dressing.

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There are plenty of places to watch TV online.

 

In this case they appear to be showing them on tntdrama.com on a week delay.

Edited by stacey

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I laughed at all of the law books, shapeshifter. So immediately recognizable to anyone who works in a library. I wonder why TV libraries are always so well stocked with U.S. Reports and all of the West series. 

 

And immediately recognizable to lawyers, too - I was totally distracted by the number of case reporters on all the shelves, and my OCD was bothered by the fact that they were all mixed up and interspersed. Especially now that people don't really use those books since it's easier to research online, I'm sure they can get tons of old ones on the cheap, and I get that they look sort of old-timey and "serious" in background shots, but their use is diverting to a subset of the population. My god, Rhode Island IS magic!

Edited by stanleyk

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And immediately recognizable to lawyers, too - I was totally distracted by the number of case reporters on all the shelves, and my OCD was bothered by the fact that they were all mixed up and interspersed. Especially now that people don't really use those books since it's easier to research online, I'm sure they can get tons of old ones on the cheap...

Yes, that was my problem with them!

As a librarian, I feel it is my duty to give this show one more episode, but that might be it. I've got some reading to catch up on. Heh.

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And immediately recognizable to lawyers, too - I was totally distracted by the number of case reporters on all the shelves, and my OCD was bothered by the fact that they were all mixed up and interspersed. Especially now that people don't really use those books since it's easier to research online, I'm sure they can get tons of old ones on the cheap, and I get that they look sort of old-timey and "serious" in background shots, but their use is diverting to a subset of the population. My god, Rhode Island IS magic!

 

My husband's first job when he moved to New York was at the Strand selecting hard covers for production companies who were constructing bookshelves for their sets. They order them that way.

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Yes, the messed up display bothered me as well--how can they ever find anything when they're clearly not keeping reporter sets together, let alone following either Dewey or Library of Congress? It's chaos! Chaos!

Edited by ABay
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I thought I knew the lady lawyer as soon as they took the robes off but I was soo distracted by their obvious Wolfram and Hart Company and the Lilah and Lindsey doppelgangers, that I didn’t place her as 6 from Battlestar.  Was this an homage to Angel because Christian Kane is on the show?
Oh my, that Minotaur was embarrassing. Was it even meant to be scary at all? It was fluffy and furry for goodness sake. I bet they borrowed it from someone at the recent furry convention. I just wanted to go up and hug it.
I like Rebecca but she should stop trying to be fighter because it looks so ridiculous.  They need a stunt double stat. Maybe my 9 year old will like the show because I think that’s the demographic.

Edited by Pacodakat

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...Oh my, that Minotaur was embarrassing. Was it even meant to be scary at all? It was fluffy and furry for goodness sake. I bet they borrowed it from someone at the recent furry convention. I just wanted to go up and hug it...

Coincidentally, this week on Grimm they Beast Of The Week had an almost identical mask. So there was a convention of them?

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In this case they appear to be showing them on tntdrama.com on a week delay.

And presumably one needs to d/l the app? It's not letting me do anything, just keeps popping up about the bleeping app. Thx.

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And presumably one needs to d/l the app? It's not letting me do anything, just keeps popping up about the bleeping app. Thx.

 

I use it on the app or on my desktop, but if you close the ask about the app popup, go to the Shows tab and chose an available episode (not the latest), I believe they'll let you watch it on the browser. 

Edited by Julia

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Coincidentally, this week on Grimm they Beast Of The Week had an almost identical mask. So there was a convention of them?

 

I believe both shows film in Portland, so I'm thinking they go to the same prop warehouse.

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i get more Fred vibes than Emma vibes off Cassandra actually. For me Emma is defined by her OCD which Cassie is lacking entirely. 

 

Eh, don't care about the fx that much, I was just relieved that this episode was cleverer than the last 2. What they were doing made more sense, the dialogues seemed less stupid. Of course, it's damning with faint praise, but any improvement is welcome, since i'll be watching till the end of the season, probably. 

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One of the reasons I was so pleased to see Cassandra's free ride on the redemption train come to a halt was that back when, I read something Rogers wrote about getting the audience to accept characters they're not sold on by having a character people like befriend them. So, if Christian Kane's character isn't buying her awesome, that seems to me like they're not demanding that we buy it either (IOW, we're not getting Mary Sue Skye for Agents of Shield 2.0). But that's why I trust these guys, and I don't trust a lot of writing teams on TV these days.

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I like Rebecca but she should stop trying to be fighter because it looks so ridiculous.  They need a stunt double stat. 

Yes to this.  They have the same stunt guy as Leverage and those fights were always great. Most of the time it was Christian Kane's character doing the fighting and it might have been easier to choreograph them since he already knew how to fight.  But the Hardison and Parker characters got some good punches in every so often so we know the stunt guy can teach non-fighters well.  RR just looks so stiff in every fight.  Maybe it's the pantsuits?  She just doesn't look comfortable at all and I think that's a big part of the problem.

 

I think the Minotaur would have worked better if they hadn't been in a brightly-lit hallway.  If it had been chasing them in the cave-tunnels that might have been better.  Or do the Jaws thing and don't let us really see it at all.  Or just keep it a man the whole time.  If you can't afford the best costumes/effects there are better ways to hide that fact.

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Cassandra looks like Emma Pillsbury, but you're right--she certainly is much more like Fred in knowledge and personality.

 

Huh, but Fred didn't bug me like Cassandra does.  Not sure if its the actress or because by the time Fred came along, there was already a more established group so she wasn't a "main" character and didn't stick out as much.  I'll have to pay a bit more attention when I come to her character in my Angel rewatch.

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I loathed Fred.so.very.much. When Amy Acker joined Person of Interest I wasn't sure I'd be able overcome my deep dislike of her because of Fred and keep watching.

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Fred didn't bug me until the last season when all of a sudden she was an expert in ghosts, werewolves, supernatural gizmos, and every single science/medical-related thing at Wolfram & Hart.  But I liked Amy Acker in Dollhouse so I blame the writing on that.

 

I definitely see the similarities between her and Cassandra, but Cassandra doesn't bother me until she starts spewing out the math babble and I think a lot of that has to do with the cartoons swirling around her head.  I don't need to see how she thinks.  Spend that special effects money on better monster costumes.  Or pants for Cassandra.  (You've got Christian Kane in three layers of shirts and a jacket but she's running around in gauzy dresses and tiny skirts?  No.)  I did, however, appreciate that they refer to her tumor as a brain grape.  I like that they're not constantly feeling sorry for her.

 

The cold open was so incredibly reminiscent of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode--complete with cheesy monster and mysterious monks--that when Christian Kane made his entrance, I expected to see Lindsey's evil hand.  I'm liking it so far. 

 

If we don't get an evil hand/Angel reference I will be seriously disappointed.  It bugged me that on an episode of Bones that featured angels and demons they didn't make one single Angel joke. And on the episode of Leverage that had Sam Anderson (a.k.a. Holland Manners) as the bad guy there was zero interaction between him and Kane.  Such wasted opportunities.

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I just cant get into this and I really wanted to, especially because I love Christian Kane but I just can't. Whoever made the reference that Cassandra reminded them of Fred on Buffy and Angel hit the nail on the head. I didn't like that character and this one reminds me so much of her that I cant stand Cassandra. I'll live, The Musketeers come back in a month so I will be good to go with that little wait. 

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Maybe it's the pantsuits?  She just doesn't look comfortable at all and I think that's a big part of the problem.

 

I think this is it. I don't get why anyone would choose to run around in those suits when hand to hand combat may be involved - those don't allow any range of motion at all! And she keeps them buttoned up. I know that's the character they are going for - all buttoned up and stiff, who gradually loosens up - but it just looks ridiculous on a professional. 

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I think that my fellow-librarians are being a little hard on the show for not arranging the shelves in Dewey or LC order.  I'm happy to see libraries presented in a positive light, although I smile to see that the librarian is the one who knows everything and not the one who knows how to find out about everything!  By the way, I worked in a used bookstore in the '90's.  Restaurants with a decor that included pubby rooms with shelves of old books were popular at the time.  They used to order books from us by the foot, occasionally specifying color, but never category, content or arrangement. 

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Fans of law books will be pleased to know that Rogers revealed all in his post-game post at kfmonkey.blogspot.com.  The problem is that books are copyrighted, and even the cover art is owned.  But law books are public domain, so they don't need to be cleared for use.

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Fans of law books will be pleased to know that Rogers revealed all in his post-game post at kfmonkey.blogspot.com.  The problem is that books are copyrighted, and even the cover art is owned.  But law books are public domain, so they don't need to be cleared for use.

My problem with the law books was the way they were displayed: Interspersed with other books instead of arranged as a set of ordered volumes.

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I just cant get into this and I really wanted to, especially because I love Christian Kane but I just can't. Whoever made the reference that Cassandra reminded them of Fred on Buffy and Angel hit the nail on the head. I didn't like that character and this one reminds me so much of her that I cant stand Cassandra. I'll live, The Musketeers come back in a month so I will be good to go with that little wait.

So, I was bored the other day and gave this another shot and this time I actually enjoyed it. I guess I'm back on board for the time being.

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Especially now that people don't really use those books since it's easier to research online, I'm sure they can get tons of old ones on the cheap, and I get that they look sort of old-timey and "serious" in background shots

 

But law books are public domain, so they don't need to be cleared for use.

Amused librarian here as well.  Really old books wouldn't need to be cleared for use either, but pre-20th century leatherbound books (with titles hardly visible) would be much more expensive.  It does seem funny that THE Library of Libraries would have so little in the way of antique volumes.  On the other hand back in the day fake TV and movie libraries of this kind always seemed to include a generous selection of Reader's Digest condensed books - maybe the funniest example being the 1973 version of Lost Horizon, where you could clearly see half a dozen of them on the shelf in every single shot of the Shangri-La library.

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One of my favorites was Marty's bedroom in Back to the Future, which had several volumes of Reference Quarterly (RQ).

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