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Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

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11 hours ago, JBC344 said:

For me, that is just the point.  I like Bo and Hope but I find a lot of their relationship is dependent on their history as opposed to who they are at any given moment.  To use the example of Gina, even after Bo learned that Gina was Hope it didn't change things because Gina was a completely different person than Hope with a different personality.  That to me is what made the story more compelling and gave Billie the initial edge is that Hope and Gina were so different that it wouldn't of made sense for Bo to just dump Billie for Hope/Gina.  It would be the same as Hope falling down a flight of stairs and waking up with Kate's personality, yeah physically she is the same person but with a  completely different personality, mannerisms, outlook on life you wouldn't expect the same people to be attracted to her.  This is also what made the initial run of Bo/Hope/Billie interesting in that you had someone like Jennifer who was Hope's beloved cousin and also Billie's best friend.  While Hope was Gina, Jennifer preferred Bo with Billie, not because she hated/disliked Hope/Gina, but because she wasn't the same person that Bo was married to. 

This is what bothered me about Bo during that time period. Bo in character would have tried to help Gina recover her memories as Hope. He would have done it for their son, her family and for himself. Bo acted like Gina was an inconvenience.    Bo knows that Hope's stubborn streak has always gotten her in trouble. It is how she fell into the hands of Ernesto that got her killed in the first place. Not to mention, the guilt that Bo felt about not saving Hope. The last thing that he saw was Hope crying out to him to save her. Unfortunately, he could not do that. I have to wonder how Peter would have played it. Since FauxBo did not have the same history as him.  Jennifer pissed me off throughout the whole saga.  Alice knew that was her granddaughter all along and never stopped fighting for her.  Bo treated Hope like she was an inconvenience. He never once seemed to be drawn to her, curious about her at all.   He was all about Billie and making her happy. Bo has never given up on Hope, it was what propelled him to kidnap her on her wedding day to Larry.  He always fought for her, even when she was not receptive to him.  I hated how JER seemed to dismiss all of that history for his pet couple.  I loved Bo with Carly.  I am not of those BOPE fans that could never accept him with another woman. Bo was not at his best with his dismissal of Hope as Gina. It was out of character. 

Edited by Apprentice79
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4 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

This is what bothered me about Bo during that time period. Bo in character would have tried to help Gina recover her memories as Hope. He would have done it for their son, her family and for himself. Bo acted like Gina was an inconvenience.    Bo knows that Hope's stubborn streak has always gotten her in trouble. It is how she fell into the hands of Ernesto that got her killed in the first place. Not to mention, the guilt that Bo felt about not saving Hope. The last thing that he saw was Hope crying out to him to save her. Unfortunately, he could not do that. I have to wonder how Peter would have played it. Since FauxBo did not have the same history as him.  Jennifer pissed me off throughout the whole saga.  Alice knew that was her granddaughter all along and never stopped fighting for her.  Bo treated Hope like she was an inconvenience. He never once seemed to be drawn to her, curious about her at all.   He was all about Billie and making her happy. Bo has never given up on Hope, it was what propelled him to kidnap her on her wedding day to Larry.  He always fought for her, even when she was not receptive to him.  I hated how JER seemed to dismiss all of that history for his pet couple.  I loved Bo with Carly.  I am not of those BOPE fans that could never accept him with another woman. Bo was not at his best with his dismissal of Hope as Gina. It was out of character. 

I see your point about Bo not fighting enough for Gina to remember that she was Hope.  I can understand that. Funny thing for me, that was the only time I actually disliked the beloved Alice Horton.  I didn't object to her wanting Gina to be Hope or even knowing it.  I just personally didn't care for her regard for Billie.  Before Hope came back as Gina, Alice adored Billie and was ecstatic that Bo and Shawn D had her in their lives.  I can understand her "picking" Hope/Gina over Billie of course I just found that she could of had more understanding toward Billie during the whole situation. 

I actually felt that Jennifer had the right balance.  She liked Gina and I believe even thought she was Hope but was realistic that Gina was not the woman that Bo fell in love.  I personally found Jennifer to be very level headed between her best friend Billie and Gina a woman who looks like her cousin and maybe is her cousin Hope but is a completely different person who she doesn't know. 

I found that everyone in Salem really wanted Gina to be Hope, hell even Billie was selfless enough to see how Gina being Hope was overall a great thing for the Horton's, Bo, and especially Shawn D even if she was uncertain how everything would turn out for her.  At the same time I can't imagine how frustrating it would be for a beloved relative to come back to you and be a completely different person than the one you love and have history with. 

In all fairness to Hope to I actually have liked her other pairings.  I adored her with Patrick Lockhart and really loved her with Aiden.  I even liked her "possible" romance with Justin a few years back.  Not a fan at all of her romance with Rafe.  Overall the character of Hope has been shortchanged in the pairing department overall. 

Edited by JBC344
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15 hours ago, JBC344 said:

I know it's a little confusing.  Two different personalities within Hope.

The confusing part is how she ended up with a guy who barely has any.

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1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

In all fairness to Hope to I actually have liked her other pairings.  I adored her with Patrick Lockhart and really loved her with Aiden.  I even liked her "possible" romance with Justin a few years back.  Not a fan at all of her romance with Rafe.  Overall the character of Hope has been shortchanged in the pairing department overall. 

Is anyone a fan of her pairing with him?  I've been all around the Web and haven't found a single damn person who seems to be.

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1 hour ago, Sandman said:

The confusing part is how she ended up with a guy who barely has any.

You win best quote of the day!!!!

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8 hours ago, JBC344 said:

I see your point about Bo not fighting enough for Gina to remember that she was Hope.  I can understand that. Funny thing for me, that was the only time I actually disliked the beloved Alice Horton.  I didn't object to her wanting Gina to be Hope or even knowing it.  I just personally didn't care for her regard for Billie.  Before Hope came back as Gina, Alice adored Billie and was ecstatic that Bo and Shawn D had her in their lives.  I can understand her "picking" Hope/Gina over Billie of course I just found that she could of had more understanding toward Billie during the whole situation. 

I had no problem with Alice fighting for her granddaughter Hope. That was the last link to her daughter Addie who died tragically herself.  The scene between Bo and Alice after Hope died was so heartbreaking  and it reaffirmed the strong bond between Alice and Bo.   She was there for him when he was fighting for his feelings for Carly and she encouraged him to take a leap of faith.   Alice's joy, tenacity and belief that Gina was Hope, was a thing of beauty.   So, Alice doing everything in her power to get her back was never a personal slight against Billie.   She was never mean or spiteful.    Whatever warm feeling that she had for Billie was never comparable to her love for the granddaughter that she raised..

Edited by Apprentice79
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7 hours ago, Nalan said:

Is anyone a fan of her pairing with him?  I've been all around the Web and haven't found a single damn person who seems to be.

I'm not fanatic about them, but I don't have any violent objections either.

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1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

I had no problem with Alice fighting for her granddaughter Hope. That was the last link to her daughter Addie who died tragically herself.  The scene between Bo and Alice after Hope died was so heartbreaking  and it reaffirmed the strong bond between Alice and Bo.   She was there for him when he was fighting for his feelings for Carly and she encouraged him to take a leap of faith.   Alice's joy, tenacity and belief that Gina was Hope, was a thing of beauty.   So, Alice doing everything in her power to get her back was never a personal slight against Billie.   She was never mean or spiteful.    Whatever warm feeling that she had for Billie was never comparable to her love for the granddaughter that she raised..

Oh I'm not objectying to her love for Hope or that she would pick her over Billie. My point is that her wanting Gina/Hope to remember is a seperate issue than having her granddaughter back with Bo. For me it seemed like she couldn't take joy in Hope/Gina being back unless she got Bo back.

 

I actually did find Alice mean and spiteful when she attended Bo and Billie's wedding with Gina and kept urging her to interrupt and declare her love for Bo. 

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8 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Oh I'm not objectying to her love for Hope or that she would pick her over Billie. My point is that her wanting Gina/Hope to remember is a seperate issue than having her granddaughter back with Bo. For me it seemed like she couldn't take joy in Hope/Gina being back unless she got Bo back.

 

I actually did find Alice mean and spiteful when she attended Bo and Billie's wedding with Gina and kept urging her to interrupt and declare her love for Bo. 

Alice knew that Bo and Hope were going to get back together, she was there and witness their romance and saw the good and the bad.  She was right to want Bo and Hope back together. Had Hope never died, they would have been together.

I never found it mean. She knew that Gina was Hope and she knew Hope's stubbornness kept her from assuming her identity as Hope and her place as Bo's wife.  She was fighting for her granddaughter.  She also knew that  Gina knew that she was Hope, but, had no definitive proof.  Bo should have known that Gina was Hope. That was bad plot point and made him look bad. Rojohn knew that Marlena was Marlena, when they reunited on the pier, after she was believed to be dead.  Once he saw her and kissed her, he had no doubts.  Marlena did not have amnesia like Hope, but, he could have been skeptical, but, he knew his doc.  Bo should have known, period.

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9 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I never found it mean. She knew that Gina was Hope and she knew Hope's stubbornness kept her from assuming her identity as Hope and her place as Bo's wife. 

I always wondered if it was more than stubbornness on Hope's part -- that part of her reluctance to admit to herself and to others that she knew Gina wasn't her real identity was that she had grown beyond "her place" as Bo's wife. It wasn't mean, necessarily, of Alice to fight for what she believed was right for her granddaughter, but it also wasn't Alice's decision to make. Alice's possible lack of feeling wasn't for Hope, but for Billie -- her regard for Billie seemed to evaporate in the face of her own eagerness to have Hope back, and to have everything back to normal.

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On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 3:18 PM, Sandman said:

Are the producers nine-year-olds? Good Lord. (Not that I think you're wrong. I just keep expecting that the people running this show should be -- oh, what's the word? Professional.)

That's actually an insult to nine year olds.  Professional's being in charge of this show left the building years ago.

At one time, a character dying, their spouse moving on, and then the character turning up alive, was a story soaps had no problem telling.  No one had to be the bad guy or villain.  It was a difficult situation the characters had to work through.  Now the writers or producers or whoever feel the need to trash characters in order to move a story along, and it ruins everything.

Of course, these are also the idiots who somehow managed to ruin the once great couples of Roman/Marlena, John/Marlena, Hope/Bo, Kayla/Steve, and Jennifer/Jack.  I still don't understand why they trashed Aiden.  The Bo returns, Aiden is a bad guy, Bo dies, Aiden isn't a bad guy, oh wait he is, now Hope is with Rafe, was a spectacularly bad SL even for this show.

Is the story with Chad and Gabi ever going to go anywhere?

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6 hours ago, Sandman said:

I always wondered if it was more than stubbornness on Hope's part -- that part of her reluctance to admit to herself and to others that she knew Gina wasn't her real identity was that she had grown beyond "her place" as Bo's wife. It wasn't mean, necessarily, of Alice to fight for what she believed was right for her granddaughter, but it also wasn't Alice's decision to make. Alice's possible lack of feeling wasn't for Hope, but for Billie -- her regard for Billie seemed to evaporate in the face of her own eagerness to have Hope back, and to have everything back to normal.

Amen.  It was the idea that people were treating Hope and Gina as interchangeable, when in reality they were more like two different people within the same body.  Full disclosure I really liked the "character of Gina" she was a good person, headstrong, with a  completely different personality than Hope.  Gina being a nice person was not enough to compel Bo to leave Billie.  As I mentioned earlier the whole genesis of this conversation wasn't about Hope/Gina vs Billie but more about how you can have a compelling love triangle without having one side be a mustache twirling villain. 

Edited by JBC344
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1 hour ago, QuelleC said:

Oh man you just posted a spoiler I didn't know. 

I apologize, I thought the rule was once the information goes mainstream it isn't considered a spoiler anymore.  I'll edit just in case.

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On 6/9/2017 at 2:56 PM, Silver Raven said:

I think the producers just got so pissed off with Chandler Massey, they totally decided to trash Will's character.

You mean Guy Wilson, right? 

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12 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

That's actually an insult to nine-year-olds.  Professionals being in charge of this show left the building years ago.

Point taken. No argument here -- and I mean to cast no aspersions on the character of the average nine-year-old.

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6 hours ago, swtrgrl said:

You mean Guy Wilson, right? 

No, I mean Chandler.  They fired him, then hired Guy, then immediately turned Will into an asshole.

Edited by Silver Raven

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On 6/10/2017 at 6:50 PM, Nalan said:

Is anyone a fan of her pairing with him?  I've been all around the Web and haven't found a single damn person who seems to be.

I don't hate them together.  I hated Hope and Aiden.  And it makes more sense than Rafe with Kate or Nicole...  It's not going to be any great love story, but it's tolerable.  

I'm a hold out for PR to change his mind and Bo to come back from the dead.

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After taking a long break from show decided to give it a try again.  Theo and Claire are still together.  A girl I don't know recorded them in a hotel room to help make Claire famous?   That doesn't sound like a plan that will end well.  

Erik still looks sad and very handsome. Brady's in love again.   

Some people stranded on an island.    So now chad is with Gabby ?   Paul looks crazy.  Thought he got confused and thought he was on Hawaii 5-0.  Sonny looks very different.  

Nicole still can't win   

Edited by tribeca

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On 6/10/2017 at 7:17 AM, QuelleC said:

Back when she had her baby voice then.

besides getting older and the usual voice changes, i read somewhere she was (is?) a heavy smoker. and that was just one of the things that annoyed peter reckell. kissing an ashtray. 

she is actually one of the old-timers i wouldn't mind seeing gone.

i have watched this show for so long, i seriously don't know if i still like it or it is such a habit, no an addiction, that i just can't stop. 

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I too have watched the show for a long time and have forgotten a lot of what happened. Not sure it's an addiction - more like a weird family for me.

Chloe, do shut UP. You and Nicole are/were best friends and semi-sisters to each other. She's the best thing that happened to you, really. You can both raise Holly.

Nice of Nicole to own her actions. In the grand scheme of Salem crimes, well, it's a lot less than Hope's Stefano killing and cover-up.

Deimos, how are you going to fund your drug business?

Tripp, do listen to the Salemites instead of Jade.

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The Bo returns, Aiden is a bad guy, Bo dies, Aiden isn't a bad guy, oh wait he is, now Hope is with Rafe, was a spectacularly bad SL even for this show.

Quoted for Truth.

 

I miss Aiden, pre-50th, when Dena trashed him for Bo. He refreshed Hope for me. Rafe just brings nothing. He's that person your friends forgot you dated. 

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17 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

No, I mean Chandler.  They fired him, then hired Guy, then immediately turned Will into an asshole.

I don't agree with your description but okay. 

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22 minutes ago, worleybird said:

Kate: You're only supposed to wear those pants if you're walking on stilts and under a Big Top!

And it was odd that she was fully dressed in a completely different outfit and hairstyle, then showed up ready to get married in an entirely different outfit, but not one that screamed, it's my wedding day.

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2 hours ago, worleybird said:

Kate: You're only supposed to wear those pants if you're walking on stilts and under a Big Top!

and was that a cat on her shirt? i only go a glance but it looked that way. what a horrible outfit. but....i am officially watching for the kate and andre show!!! love love love them together.  

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i wonder how many people under 40 are watching? and if it would not be better if they cut the "teens" down to about 10% of the show. i know i would love it. not interested at all about too thin claire and too thin/crazy jade, can't act joey,  etc etc. give me more andre and kate, marlena and maggie, friendships, bring back some of the other mature actors. insert a little more humor, interesting storylines. that's just me. am i completely wrong and young people are actually interested in this? hmmm...

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I watched today for the first time in a couple weeks and lucky me I got to see Claire sing.  And Kate and Andre get married. And Hope and Abe find the sex video. And Nicole be mean to Eric, again.  

Still waiting for the newest new writer's material to start airing. Mid-July, right?

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22 hours ago, msrachelj said:

besides getting older and the usual voice changes, i read somewhere she was (is?) a heavy smoker. and that was just one of the things that annoyed peter reckell. kissing an ashtray. 

she is actually one of the old-timers i wouldn't mind seeing gone.

i have watched this show for so long, i seriously don't know if i still like it or it is such a habit, no an addiction, that i just can't stop. 

Wow she definitely doesn't have the smoker's lines, esp for her age.  

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I don't buy it.  She was a competitive skater. The baby voice dropped an octave during the time she lost (too much ) baby fat. She was a  young adult remaking her image.  Of course she's worked with a vocal coach.  

Kate and Andre were funny.  Hope we're done with that judge.  But yeah that outfit on Kate?

And shut up and go away Cleavage I mean Chloe.  

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21 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Rafe just brings nothing. He's that person your friends forgot you dated. 

Bahahahaha!  That is perfect because he really is that guy!

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Kate and Andre as the happy newlyweds? Well, there have been worse arrangements on the show. The pink suit was quite 'loud'. Didn't scream wedding attire.

Yay, the return of Nancy Wesley, the voice of reason for her daughter. And someone who wants to do the right thing and give the baby to its rightful biological mother. Chloe, do you really want to be saddled with an infant? Especially as your 'singing' career is rebounding?

Nicole, you don't have to be BFFs with Eric, but he did help you and went out of his way to do so and put up with a lot of your crap. Give the guy a break. Saint Daniel is gone, and really, you are better off.

Felt sorry for the poor judge and the two sideshows of her day.

Claire, do you really think that Jade would have only one copy? She probably has the tape on a USB key. And nice to see dad and grandma having a viewing!

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11 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

Yay, the return of Nancy Wesley, the voice of reason for her daughter. And someone who wants to do the right thing and give the baby to its rightful biological mother. Chloe, do you really want to be saddled with an infant? Especially as your 'singing' career is rebounding?

Nicole, you don't have to be BFFs with Eric, but he did help you and went out of his way to do so and put up with a lot of your crap. Give the guy a break. Saint Daniel is gone, and really, you are better off.

So glad that Nancy wants to do what's right and let Nicole have Holly.  It's also very telling that Parker even wants Holly with Nicole.

Oh, man.  When Brady reminded Nicole that everyone makes terrible mistakes, he should've said it like this: "Because no one's ever made a terrible mistake before.  Certainly not you."  In pure soap fashion, she could've said, "That's not fair."  And he could've replied, "No, but it's true."  That would've made that scene a touch better for me.

Edited by Star Aristille
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Is west coast going to be a day behind now I wonder or did we just miss today? I am also curious if last week when the French Open was scheduled if NBC broadcast the hearings instead, or stuck with the sports broadcast.

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Kate: You're only supposed to wear those pants if you're walking on stilts and under a Big Top!

Or auditioning to play Beetlejuice.

Quote

 It's also very telling that Parker even wants Holly with Nicole.

I have no use for Parker but he earned some points with me for saying that. It's the kind of thing Young Ciara would have said.

Can we please just give Nicole her damn baby back so she will shut up? Her treatment of Eric today just made me hate her. I hope Eric and Jennifer have sex right outside the window of Nicole's apartment and wake up Holly so Nicole gets no sleep all night. She's worthless and ungrateful and has no redeeming factors. I'm pretty astonished Brady would even entertain the idea of building a future with her if she's going to act like a six-year-old. In the last few months, half the cast has had to step in and help save her sorry ass. I have no more sympathy left for her "situation".

 

Zucker, if your love of Shawn Christian prompted the writers to go this way with Nicole as a character and make her a Daniel-obsessed hate machine, you just lost all the respect I had for you given the way you handled the Trump fiasco a few months ago. I am actively excited for Nicole to be gone. Behind-The-Scenes relationships should not influence these fictional characters or their trajectories.

This was my first episode in a little while and I didn't think it was terrible. I liked seeing Hope play grandmother to Claire and I really enjoyed someone finally getting Claire to reconsider her behavior lately. Ditto for Nancy with Chloe. And even Brady with Nicole, I guess, although frankly, she's gone beyond the point of no return now and essentially become the harpy that Jennifer once was.

There's no way that sex tape would have made anybody famous with a giant plant blocking most of the shot. Kim K and Paris Hilton performed for the camera. From what we saw of Claire with Theo, they weren't exactly a charismatic on-screen duo.

I kind of hoped for more comedy from the Andre/Kate wedding today, but we got a little bit and I'm grateful for that. And hey, no Rafe or Island Castaways today! Yay!

Edited by DisneyBoy
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2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Zucker, if your love of Shawn Christian prompted the writers to go this way with Nicole as a character and make her a Daniel-obsessed hate machine, you just lost all the respect I had for you given the way you handled the Trump fiasco a few months ago. I am actively excited for Nicole to be gone. Behind-The-Scenes relationships should not influence these fictional characters or their trajectories.

Ooh, this is certainly something I'd like to hear more about.  How did she handle that?

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"My name is Arianne (R-E-on) ZUCKER (Zooker) and I am a strong, independent, hard working mother, business woman and partner to a great man. I have grown to learn that the words of others cannot effect the value of my self worth or define the content of my character. How we treat one another, whether behind closed doors, locker rooms or face to face, should be done with kindness, dignity and respect. Unfortunately, there are too many people in power who abuse their position and disregard these simple principles and are rewarded for it. In understanding the magnitude of this situation, I choose to stand tall with self respect and use my voice to enrich, inspire and elevate the best of who we are as people".

I didn't have a problem with how she handled it. She released a statement...a wonderfully worded one about how she was more that what she was portrayed: A mom, an actress, a girlfriend, etc... 

What was wrong with it?

Edited by swtrgrl
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17 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

Wow she definitely doesn't have the smoker's lines, esp for her age.  

i'm sure she gets all the best surgery and treatments money can buy!

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There's no real problem with how she handled the Trump thing...my beef is that her private dating life has seemingly affected plots to the point where I hate her character. She also recently explained a decision by citing Days' choice to let her boyfriend go from the cast as a deciding factor. Ugh.

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Poor Theo.  What a way to find out you were taped in flagrante.

I'm shocked, shocked, that they are admitting that Hope is Claire's grandmother.

That alley that Steve got thrown out of is the front door to the place where this "Sebastian" person is

Yeah, I was figuring that "Sebastian" was going to be Anjelica.

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Poor Claire.  She's actually innocent this time, and Theo doesn't believe her.

At the same time, I kind of find this karma for how fame-hungry she's been, plus how she handled the Theo/Ciara situation.  I can understand why Theo doesn't believe her even though she really is innocent.

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It was many, many pages ago and I'm just not going to go find it, but whichever poster called Claire a real life Bratz doll is a genius. Now that's all I see when I look at her.

I don't feel sorry for her.  So what if she didn't commit the crime this time?  She's still in the black on the karma ledger......

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I don't feel too sorry for Claire. Yes, she is innocent in the whole tape mess, but if push came to shove, she wouldn't be indignant about it coming out - she may feign it, but she certainly would welcome the popularity. Theo would just be a bit of collateral damage. Granted she would need to be closer to a record contract or to have some sort of single coming out for it to boost any sales. Theo is the only person who would be genuinely hurt. She still needs to deal with the whole Ciara letter mess, which she is fully guilty of.  I also didn't feel she expressed being mortified all that well. And most likely, Jade would throw her under the bus.

Jade, Joey does not want you or love you. And his mother is not responsible for funding you - paying your rent, paying your college tuition.  You can only get so far with blackmail. And your plan with Tripp will eventually backfire as he will learn the truth and that you were using him for some weird revenge because your sugar momma wasn't handing over the cash you feel you deserve.

The island stuff was a bit yawny - guess Gabi's ankle is still sore.  JJ, it's not your business who Gabi hooks up with since she is no longer with you. Yeah, it is a bit awkward that it is your sister's soon to be ex-husband.

C'mon Hope and Abe. Watch the video. You know you want to. Jade probably still has a copy. And no, putting it on the cloud won't release it to the whole world unless someone hacks it. You can always remove something from the cloud storage system. Claire isn't famous.

Nice for Steve to run in to Morgan Fairchild, er, Angelica Deveraux.

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15 hours ago, swtrgrl said:

I didn't have a problem with how she handled it. She released a statement...a wonderfully worded one about how she was more that what she was portrayed: A mom, an actress, a girlfriend, etc... 

What was wrong with it?

There was nothing wrong with it, absolutely nothing.  It was a gracious rebuttal to a moment in her life that might be interpreted by others to her disadvantage.

Speaking truth to power trumps pretty much all objections.

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"You sure haven't changed." Oy! Morgan looks terrible. Too many fillers and looks way too puffy. Why do actresses do this to themselves!

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