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Anna Yolei

Retro B&B: When the Beautiful Were Also Bold

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I've been noticing a lot of discussion on old school B&B, and figured it's a good time to give that its own thread.

The show is about fourteen months younger than myself, so seeing it from the beginning is like a new show. I've been watching the old clips from dee Bap like it's 1999 (pun intended...that was when I originally got hook), and find myself anticipating the next upload, like I used to rush home to my recordings in the early 2000s.

Some thoughts:

-Brooke was sweet and it was the biggest adjustment to watch scenes of her being, yanno, happy and not pining over Ridge (coincidentally, after she and Caroline become friends, Ridge tactfully trieshooking Brooke and Thorne up together!)

- I guess that whole "Logans stick by each other" stuff wasn't just pulled out the ass...in 1987, they really did, with Storm playing brother and man of the house, to the family being worried when Donna moved out with Mark to Brooke and Storm both wanting their mother to get some happiness when Eric came back into her life.

-by the same token, the Forresters were a hot ass mess (in an entertaining way) with Stephanie's obvious preference for Ridge over her other children and the coldness Steph showed towards Kirsten. Yet Thorne didn't come off as a crybaby as he did in the 2000s sometimes.

-Speaking of Throne #1: wow. ^_^;; Why that guy wasn't cast as Ridge I don't know. But I can kinda understand now why the current Thorne took some time to adjust to.

-As someone mentioned in the daily thread, there was a clear distinction of haves and have-nots. But even more striking was all the young characters had goals and dreams for themselves beyond who they were with...yanno, like real people. Hell, Kirsten was confident enough in herself that she didn't want a boyfriend at all! Name another character like that on any soap today. I'll wait. ;)

-Eric and Stephanie: McCook and Flannery sold it as that couple that drifted apart, the latter in particular. Steph was cold and distant, but not shrill and obsessive. The show forgot this, but Stephanie worked so much better when she hid her true nature under class and dignity.

Overall, I can understand now why this show is the most watched soap worldwide, and it's been a joy to revisit stories I was too young to watch and ones I erased from VHS because no one thought internet video would be a thing.

Happy viewing :)

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It's definitely striking to do a side-by-side comparison between then and now. The dialogue was better, the characterizations was stronger and the interactions were more layered. 

 

Stephanie, for example, was a much more subtle character who operated more like a chess-master than the bulldozer she aged into.

 

It always bugs when 'outsiders' like Maya and Oliver rhapsodize about how family-values orientated the Forresters are because that's bullshit.  The Logans were the loving family unit. It's not for nothing that when poor Caroline was recovering from being sexually assaulted, she lived with the Logans for several weeks. The Forresters were twisted and fucked-up, mainly because of Staphanie's creepiness about her kids. One scene that sticks out for me was her accusing Kristen of 'seducing' Eric. She immediately  backed up form her telling choice of words but it was clear that she was jealous of her daughter's closeness to Eric and saw her as competition. 

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Speaking of Throne #1: wow. ^_^;; Why that guy wasn't cast as Ridge I don't know. But I can kinda understand now why the current Thorne took some time to adjust to.

 

 

Thorne 1.0 was easy on the eyes, blonde yummy goodness in contrast to Ridge's dark good looks, but he couldn't act to save his life.  Not that the same couldn't be said of the actor who played Ridge.  Thorne 2.0, my personal fave of all the Thornes, was teamed with Macy Alexander and was known to break out in song every now and then.  I loved Thorne and Macy back then!  Thorne is still blonde but treated like a red-headed step-child by his Ridge-loving Mama.

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Speaking of Stephanievs favoritism, hoo boy. It was SO obvious back in the day. When Ridge bemoans Caroline not putting out, she practically calls him a saint for it. The episode in question was the July 17th 1987 one. God, she and Ridge were creepy.

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Thorne 1.0 was easy on the eyes,

I once had a dream that I was dating him & made everybody jealous!  It's correct that he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag, but his acting wasn't why I liked to watch him ;-)

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Speaking of Stephanievs favoritism, hoo boy. It was SO obvious back in the day. When Ridge bemoans Caroline not putting out, she practically calls him a saint for it. The episode in question was the July 17th 1987 one. God, she and Ridge were creepy.

 

I remember this scene from back in 1988 where Stephanie slapped the cowboy shit out of her favorite son because he had the nerve to question her motives in "getting herself pregnant" with him while in college. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV2WR4dKOKE.  I suspect it's one of the only times she's ever raised a hand to him.  After all, according to her, he became the number one man in her life "by default."

 

Placed in context of what happened years later when it was revealed that it was actually Massimo who sired Ridge, I paid closer attention to Stephanie's body language.  I have always believed that she was obsessed with getting Eric, especially since he was in love with Beth.  I remember an argument she and Eric had early on about Ridge, and she made a comment, "Well, thank God for Ridge!"  Eric gave her a quizzical look, like "What the fuck does that mean?"  I frankly wish Ridge's paternity had been left alone, but it's interesting to go back to the beginning to pick up on little clues that Stephanie had to have known that there was a possibility that Ridge was someone else's.

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The more I watch the beginning of this show, the more I wonder if this wasn't something Bill Bell had in mind the whole time. Hell, the party where Ridge was conceived took place on a boat owned by a mutural friend's family...and Massimo is a major shipping mogul. Hmmmmmm.... ;)

I'm one of the few in fandom that actually liked the Ridge paternity story, incestuous pairings that resulted aside, and it gave Brooke some much needed ammo against Stephanie and her looking down on her for bringing shame on the Forresters. Unlike Hope and Liam, Beth actually *was* robbed of a life she'd had with Eric if Steph hadn't lied about the possibility that he wasn't the father.

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I gave up on B&B before the current Hope or even Steffy joined the cast, but I still check out what's going on every now and then. And I'm glad I did, because the link with the 1980s episodes is amazing! Proper soapy goodness, now with extra retro appeal (Brooke's aerobics! Kristen's hair! Caroline's wedding dress and big skirts!). I started watching in the 1990s so this is my first time seeing Thorne 1.0, some of the others like Kristen 1.0 I only remember vaguely, and the original Logan family dynamics are new to me (the Forresters, on the other hand, are like a return to the fun stuff of my earliest B&B memories, with dashing Eric working in his office and Stephanie being icily elegant). Everyone seems to think that Caroline is perfect: I guess she was B&B's original Mary Sue, but it's been tolerable because so far she's been genuinely kind instead of getting a pass for nasty behavior.

 

Such a difference between now and then. Soaps had more of a budget to make things look glamorous (all those models posing for Eric and Ridge) and at the same time, as pointed out, there was greater realism with the Logans' mentions of money and everyday concerns.

 

When did the "Forrester family values" thing start? IIRC Brooke was the only Logan left when I started watching (during the Eric marriage) and I don't think the Forresters ever came across as anything but the screwed up rich family (a good thing for relationship drama, of course). Characters like Brooke and Sheila wanted to join them for the glamour, the status and the men, not family warmth; it was Sally and Macy who had that over at Spectra. When Stephanie attacked Brooke for wrecking the family, it was about control over Ridge/Eric and keeping up appearances; in my early years of B&B the show never used to give the impression that things had been perfect before Brooke.

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I guess the narrative changed when TPTB thought there were enough new viewers that didn't know otherwise. Unfortunately for the Bells, this new tech called YouTube popped up, connecting fans around the world* that could rediscover what used to be.

But those "family values" seems like a sham when she shrug off Ridge's playboy antics, schemes to pair Kirsten off to any man under forty and, oh yeah, got knocked up herself at eighteen. Stephanie was still in childbearing years when this show began, making her younger than Brooke is now!

*side note: there was one point a couple of years ago when I found more B&B clips in other languages than I could find in the native English, and even most of those had subtitles. I wouldn't be surprised if some Star Trek fans have taken to dubbing this show in Klingon--I'd pay good money to watch that!

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The more I watch the beginning of this show, the more I wonder if this wasn't something Bill Bell had in mind the whole time. Hell, the party where Ridge was conceived took place on a boat owned by a mutural friend's family...and Massimo is a major shipping mogul. Hmmmmmm.... ;)

I'm one of the few in fandom that actually liked the Ridge paternity story, incestuous pairings that resulted aside, and it gave Brooke some much needed ammo against Stephanie and her looking down on her for bringing shame on the Forresters. Unlike Hope and Liam, Beth actually *was* robbed of a life she'd had with Eric if Steph hadn't lied about the possibility that he wasn't the father.

 

I could have loved the storyline also especially seeing Stephanie's rather elastic morals thrown back into her hypocritical face.  To this day, I still have a tiny bit of doubt that Bridget is actually Eric's.  There were way too many shenanigans going on with those paternity tests.  Stephanie and Sheila both had a vested interest in the outcome and were behaving rather suspiciously.  Plus, the idea that that letter supposedly from Brooke's doctor being placed inside of Ridge's favorite book was preposterous.  Ridge wasn't that much of a reader in the first place.  But, I guess it's all water under the bridge [no pun intended] now since Ridge's paternity was changed.  I'm still trying to understand how Ridge and Bridget's lack of DNA suddenly translated into them being a couple.  It was the most disgusting storyline Bradley ever dreamed up.  Even his mother, who typically kept her opinions to herself, gently objected.  I always believed it was penned solely as payback for Brooke because of Breacon.

 

I gave up on B&B before the current Hope or even Steffy joined the cast, but I still check out what's going on every now and then. And I'm glad I did, because the link with the 1980s episodes is amazing! Proper soapy goodness, now with extra retro appeal (Brooke's aerobics! Kristen's hair! Caroline's wedding dress and big skirts!). I started watching in the 1990s so this is my first time seeing Thorne 1.0, some of the others like Kristen 1.0 I only remember vaguely, and the original Logan family dynamics are new to me (the Forresters, on the other hand, are like a return to the fun stuff of my earliest B&B memories, with dashing Eric working in his office and Stephanie being icily elegant). Everyone seems to think that Caroline is perfect: I guess she was B&B's original Mary Sue, but it's been tolerable because so far she's been genuinely kind instead of getting a pass for nasty behavior.

 

Such a difference between now and then. Soaps had more of a budget to make things look glamorous (all those models posing for Eric and Ridge) and at the same time, as pointed out, there was greater realism with the Logans' mentions of money and everyday concerns.

 

 

Caroline was definitely a Mary Sue and one of the most sheltered young women I have ever seen on a soap.  It wasn't just that she still lived at home, but the thought that she could be "out there" in the world on her own was enough to send Bill into a complete panic.  Caroline's claws didn't surface until she realized that she was still in love with Ridge and wanted to divorce Thorne.  Plus, they came out when Brooke confessed that she withheld that letter from Ridge from her.

 

BTW--my friends and I are still cracking up about Brooke's aerobics!  We were all taking high-impact aerobics 3 days a week after work back then.  We had those same outfits and routines.

 

I loved those models from the retro shows!  You could tell that they were actually models from their height and build and the way they moved.  I also miss the glorious fashion shows such as the one aboard the Queen Mary hosted by the late great Charleton Heston.  That fashion show spawned some really great storylines, including: Obvious social climber Sally horning her fashion house into the show and being on equal footing with Queen Stephanie; Sally attempting to pimp Macy out to Ridge, only to have Macy locked into the same stateroom with Thorne instead; the reveal that the Forrester and Spectra showstoppers (modeled by Kristen and Donna) were identical; and the disfigured Deveney Dixon in the background plotting and scheming to get even with Stephanie.  Good times!

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I'm still trying to understand how Ridge and Bridget's lack of DNA suddenly translated into them being a couple.  It was the most disgusting storyline Bradley ever dreamed up.  Even his mother, who typically kept her opinions to herself, gently objected.  I always believed it was penned solely as payback for Brooke because of Breacon.

The Ridge/Bridget is still miles ahead of what the show is now because at least it was something original. And considering how twisted Stephanie was towards Ridge, it's not surprising that he'd lack those boundaries.

That said, WTAF, show? Thank God it ended fairly quickly.

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I could have loved the storyline also especially seeing Stephanie's rather elastic morals thrown back into her hypocritical face.  To this day, I still have a tiny bit of doubt that Bridget is actually Eric's.  There were way too many shenanigans going on with those paternity tests...

 

Caroline was definitely a Mary Sue and one of the most sheltered young women I have ever seen on a soap.  It wasn't just that she still lived at home, but the thought that she could be "out there" in the world on her own was enough to send Bill into a complete panic.  Caroline's claws didn't surface until she realized that she was still in love with Ridge and wanted to divorce Thorne.  Plus, they came out when Brooke confessed that she withheld that letter from Ridge from her...

 

I loved those models from the retro shows!  You could tell that they were actually models from their height and build and the way they moved.  I also miss the glorious fashion shows such as the one aboard the Queen Mary hosted by the late great Charleton Heston.  That fashion show spawned some really great storylines, including: Obvious social climber Sally horning her fashion house into the show and being on equal footing with Queen Stephanie; Sally attempting to pimp Macy out to Ridge, only to have Macy locked into the same stateroom with Thorne instead; the reveal that the Forrester and Spectra showstoppers (modeled by Kristen and Donna) were identical; and the disfigured Deveney Dixon in the background plotting and scheming to get even with Stephanie.  Good times!

 

Bridget's paternity, BeLieF and Sheila's marriage to Eric while hiding the truth about her past are probably the most iconic B&B storylines to me.

 

I just got to the episode where Bill worries about Caroline being out there in the "jungle" after she leaves her home following the failed wedding attempt. It was so good to see her show a bit of steel for the first time.

 

The Queen Mary! I checked the dates and I must have started watching earlier than I thought: the Queen Mary was in 1989 and Brooke/Eric married in 1991. Apparently Donna was still around and dating Thorne: I was so young back then that I probably only remember the stuff I really liked, which seems to have been everything on the Queen Mary since all those plot points sound familiar to me. I'm pretty sure it was Thorne 2.0 who met Macy.

 

I'm really interested in seeing how Brooke's storyline develops. There's been plenty of flashbacks of her and Ridge at the party where she was a caterer and I thought that was their first meeting, but no, she'd already seen him when she went to the hospital to stalk Caroline.

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Bridget's paternity, BeLieF and Sheila's marriage to Eric while hiding the truth about her past are probably the most iconic B&B storylines to me.

Sheila's introduction was when the show pulled up in ratings from dead last up to number 2 in ratings...and for good reason. I've never watched her original story on Y&R, but when she came here she was trying to make a change and didn't start out as complete batshit. The show needs another character like hers around.

ElizaD, as someone that's never liked Brooke, I'm surprised to find myself engaged in her development the most out of all the characters.

Edited by Anna Yolei
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An oldie but goodie:

The introduction of Brooke's Bedroom line, complete with Steph's teeth gnashing and horrible ovet the top scenery chewing from Hunter Tylo that had me in stitches the first time I saw it. Next to Bridget's deflowering, this is my fave clip of the show.

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*side note: there was one point a couple of years ago when I found more B&B clips in other languages than I could find in the native English, and even most of those had subtitles. I wouldn't be surprised if some Star Trek fans have taken to dubbing this show in Klingon--I'd pay good money to watch that!

jIH je

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An oldie but goodie:

The introduction of Brooke's Bedroom line, complete with Steph's teeth gnashing and horrible ovet the top scenery chewing from Hunter Tylo that had me in stitches the first time I saw it. Next to Bridget's deflowering, this is my fave clip of the show.

Thanks for posting that! That was a lot of fun. Besides the obvious, some of the best aspects for me were Lauren's reaction shots, HT still being the most beautiful woman on television, and the tv set on film - I love when anyone does that, whether the tv is actually playing or it's just a frame around a filmed image. (I also love maps that take up the whole screen and have a moving image across it, even if it's a dotted line, or when the camera pans from one spot to another, and yup, B&B does that too!) And wasn't Thorne beautiful? Too bad he finally had one line.

 

I hated that pencil-necked Thorne, the one that sang all the time with Macy. I had to tune out for those years. They were the pits. It was always Sheila that would bring me back to the show. And when her story line would wrap up, I would eventually get so bored with the show that I would tune out until they'd bring back Sheila again. In fact, the reason I would tune in from time to time was to see if there was any indication that Sheila would be returning.

 

Everyone mostly comments on the Forrester/Logan stories, but there were other stories other than Brooke and Stephanie fighting. Besides everything Sheila, I enjoyed all of Lauren's adventures on the show. (Times I didn't enjoy so much were when Jessica ate the show, when the show was about some girls living in an apartment, [one of them was an Asian girl named Michael], and Amber's twin - blech.) If the show had room for Lauren and Michael, (screw Fen), I'd love to see them move to LA and mingle. Although, Fen could be another loser suitor for Hope.

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If the show had room for Lauren and Michael, (screw Fen), I'd love to see them move to LA and mingle. Although, Fen could be another loser suitor for Hope.

Oh, but have you seen Fen on Under the Dome? Not sure what happened there, but he got hot!  Too hot to be with that drip Hope!

 

I enjoyed that Brooke's Bedroom clip.  Everybody was so young & gorgeous!  Yep, sucks to get old :(  I wasn't really watching at that time, so I have to ask, who was the man with Taylor?  There certainly was some nice eye candy then!  Poor Hunter Tylo...she'd still look great (just an older version of what she was on the clip) had she not played around with the surgery/injections.  It's a true shame what she did to herself for the sake of looking "better."

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Bridget's paternity, BeLieF and Sheila's marriage to Eric while hiding the truth about her past are probably the most iconic B&B storylines to me.

 

I just got to the episode where Bill worries about Caroline being out there in the "jungle" after she leaves her home following the failed wedding attempt. It was so good to see her show a bit of steel for the first time.

 

The Queen Mary! I checked the dates and I must have started watching earlier than I thought: the Queen Mary was in 1989 and Brooke/Eric married in 1991. Apparently Donna was still around and dating Thorne: I was so young back then that I probably only remember the stuff I really liked, which seems to have been everything on the Queen Mary since all those plot points sound familiar to me. I'm pretty sure it was Thorne 2.0 who met Macy.

 

I'm really interested in seeing how Brooke's storyline develops. There's been plenty of flashbacks of her and Ridge at the party where she was a caterer and I thought that was their first meeting, but no, she'd already seen him when she went to the hospital to stalk Caroline.

 

Thanks for mentioning Donna and Thorne!  I was quite annoyed that when JG joined the show years later as Donna that Bradley didn't seem to recall that Donna had actually modeled before.  Not only had she done some modeling for  Forrester Creations, she also modeled for one of Bill, Sr.'s naughty magazines (unbeknownst to her).  Instead, the new Donna gushed about how she had never modeled before when she was offered the opportunity to be Ridge's "new Logan" [iCK!] and model for Brooke's Bedroom.  She then proceeded to give a highly sexualized performance when she modeled Ridge's latest Brooke's Bedroom designs.  A lot of us thought it looked more like a strip show; the only thing missing was a lap dance for Eric and Ridge.

 

I had hoped that Donna and Thorne could rekindle their romance, but it came off as if Donna was trying to spite Stephanie and, of course, Katie--who knows what's best for everybody--had to ruin it.

 

It's also interesting to see the genesis of Katie's insecurities, where she whined incessantly about her acne problem.  It was also quite touching though the way the entire family rallied and bent over backwards to reassure her that she was more than her pock-mocked face and that her spots would clear up in time.  All the poor child wanted was "a date...just a date!"  Donna, of course, meant well when she convinced Rocco to start courting Katie.  Although Donna's heart was in the right place, I knew that mess was going to go badly when it became clear that Rocco was besotted with Donna instead of Katie.  I also enjoyed Brooke's first onscreen kiss.  It looked so sweet and innocent back then compared to the hot and heavy, bodice ripper-style of kissing that is prevalent now.  I also got a kick out of Dave telling Brooke that hopefully his marriage proposal would be the last or only one she would ever get!  Oh, the irony!

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Hmm.  Fen and Barbi would make a nice pairing.  Did Under The Dome get good after I stopped watching, or just little parts of it?

It's still pretty bad, but in my unpopular opinion I still think it's better than the book.

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While the guy playing Rocco was horrible enough to make the Mulletor look like Sir Lawrence Olivier in comparison, he was a big part of the Logans' early days on the show. Itvd be interesting if he was brought back, or one of his kids paired off to one of the other young folks on the show (not Hope, but that goes without saying).

Someone in the daily thread mentioned bringing Dave back some weeks ago...but he seems like a nice guy that doesn't deserve to be pulled into the Forresters' Wacky Hijinx . LOL!

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OMG!  I would LOVE it if they brought Dave back.  He could be a retired police officer, who either owns his own private security firm or who is a deputy director with the Dept. of Homeland Security.  I always thought of him as the one who got away.

 

I agree that the actor who played Rocco was bad and I still cringe when I think about the leather jackets, mullets and the smarmy charm.  

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I dunno why TPTB decided to make Rocco a 50's greaser punk. I know 50's nostalgia was big in the late 70s to early 80s but it was just so outta place. At least make him an 80s punk kid! lol!

One thing I noticed with the show in the past was how the stories were balanced, where sometimes a plot wouldn't be seen for a couple of weeks, but Bell would write a couple lines in to say "hey, this thing's still happening. " Donna's story with her creepy boyfriend was one of those that would go away, as would Stephanie's ongoing battle to get Kirsten paired off, and I think it actually worked pretty well to give every character screentime without one person or couple monopolizing the show.

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Sheila's introduction was when the show pulled up in ratings from dead last up to number 2 in ratings...and for good reason. I've never watched her original story on Y&R, but when she came here she was trying to make a change and didn't start out as complete batshit. The show needs another character like hers around.

ElizaD, as someone that's never liked Brooke, I'm surprised to find myself engaged in her development the most out of all the characters.

 

It's amazing that Sheila had such an effect on ratings.

 

IMO, Brooke's storyline is interesting not just because the character is still around and played by the original actress but because her past has probably been referred to more often than anything else from those years. Stephanie used to bring it up constantly as a way to slam her, other characters would talk about how far she's come in a positive way. So watching the storyline in 2014 gives it a lot of weight in emotion/show history.

 

The introduction of Brooke's Bedroom line, complete with Steph's teeth gnashing and horrible ovet the top scenery chewing from Hunter Tylo that had me in stitches the first time I saw it. Next to Bridget's deflowering, this is my fave clip of the show.

 

The Brooke's Bedroom storyline could get dull at times but it was definitely worth it for giving us that amazing episode and the great reaction shots. If I had to sum up B&B with one clip, this might be it: Brooke being shocking, Taylor being shocked, Stephanie being furious at Brooke, the Forrester men being charmed by her, models posing in sorta-high-fashion and a dramatic press conference.

 

I wasn't really watching at that time, so I have to ask, who was the man with Taylor?

 

Dr. Pierce Peterson, Taylor's other love interest at the time. Despite having a classic B&B name and good looks, he didn't leave much of an impression.

 

Amber's twin! Mercifully I'd forgotten about her. There have been characters I liked and disliked, but no one else ever made me ask "what the hell do the showrunners see in her?" the way Amber did when she ate the show.

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Dr. Pierce Peterson, Taylor's other love interest at the time. Despite having a classic B&B name and good looks, he didn't leave much of an impression.

Thanks, ElizaD! If this is an example of what the men looked like, I wish I HAD been watching back then!

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One thing I noticed with the show in the past was how the stories were balanced, where sometimes a plot wouldn't be seen for a couple of weeks, but Bell would write a couple lines in to say "hey, this thing's still happening. " Donna's story with her creepy boyfriend was one of those that would go away, as would Stephanie's ongoing battle to get Kirsten paired off, and I think it actually worked pretty well to give every character screentime without one person or couple monopolizing the show.

 

I loved how the stories were so balanced back then.  In one episode alone, you had Kristen and Macy going at it over Mick Savage; Kristen being shocked to learn that Sally Spectra was actually Macy's mother; Eric and Stephanie mulling over their failing marriage; Clarke's determination to hold onto Kristen while Margo was putting the moves on him while she was married to Bill; and Brooke desperately trying to get Stephanie to like her only to get her head bitten off. Oh, and Ridge doing his own balancing act between Stephanie and Brooke.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed Brooke and Caroline's friendship, and it was so sweet when Caroline had dinner at the Logans' house for the first time.  Storm was clearly smitten, but in her eagerness, Brooke inadvertently mentioned that his girlfriend wouldn't be able to join them.  Dinner was such a great affair and Beth prepared a meal that any normal person could relate to--lasagna!  Caroline was obviously charmed by the Logans, who made such a fuss over her and it was cute when she asked for a glass of white wine and they didn't have any.  Caroline was tactful enough to say that she would drink anything they had.  The highlight of that meal for me was when the family bowed their heads and said grace.  Imagine that!  The other storyline was Donna moving in with her boyfriend, Mark, after getting chewed out by Storm for not obeying their mother's rules.  She was still smelling herself and decided she wouldn't join the family for dinner to meet Brooke's new friend.  Oh, and Caroline was so affected by the warmth of the Logan household that she jokingly asked if the Logans could adopt her and made reference to their home being unlike the large condo that she and her dad lived in.  Yet, another storyline arc was Bill offering Thorne the keys to the kingdom at Spencer Publications if he would marry Caroline.  It was hilarious watching Bill chew poor Thorne out for being a nervous Nelly and not aggressive enough.  Listening to him talk to Thorne about what makes a great leader is like listening to Bill, Jr. chewing out Lame.  Good times!

 

That's why I resented it years later when Bradley & Co. started this propaganda campaign against all things Logan while hailing the Forresters as the family everyone should emulate.  What utter bullshit.

 

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Speaking of Margo and Clarke, didn't they have a kid together? Dr. Mark, the guy that helped Steph fake her heart attack after Taylor returnex from the dead. I remember him as CJ's half-brother, but never knew who his mother was. With Bridget still a doctor at the time, it was a wasted oppertunity.

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That's why I resented it years later when Bradley & Co. started this propaganda campaign against all things Logan while hailing the Forresters as the family everyone should emulate. What utter bullshit.

To play devil's advocate for a minute, the Logan sisters as they are now have little in the way of that stick-together tribe they once were. A couple seasons ago, the show was big on the Logan Family Togetherness and I was here stratching my head. This was maybe two years removed from Katie getting knocked up by Nick while Bridget slaved away to save her pissy ass and shortly before the Dare campaign failed and Bill went all Papa Pope on their collective Fitzgerald Grant.

But within the context of the early seasons, I understand why Bradley paid lip service to that. And it sucks that he turned them into being nearly as shitty towards one another as the Forresters, with Donna screwing Ridge, Katie screwing Nick and Brooke screwing Bill.

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There have been characters I liked and disliked, but no one else ever made me ask "what the hell do the showrunners see in her?" the way Amber did when she ate the show.

Actually, the story of Amber and Rick and her golden ticket baby was the exact story that suckered me into this show. ;)

But in retrospect, I can kinda see why people grew sick of her. A new character that rose up entirely too quickly, and stayed well beyond her "use by" date. Even I was glad to see her leave after that stunt she pulled with Ridge abd Bridget, and her much too long tenure on Y&R did no favors.

And since I think about this show far more than I should, it dawned on me that Greyson McCouch could make for a great recast of Rocco. He's the right age and an established name. Maybe Katie will get the chip off her shoulder then. Lol!

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Wasn't there a fancy restauraunt where the Forresters frequently dined in the 1990s? I think the owner was an old Frenchman Brooke met in Paris before her marriage to Eric.

 

Donna's boyfriend Mark has a hilarious voice. It sounds like she's dating someone twenty years older.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed Brooke and Caroline's friendship, and it was so sweet when Caroline had dinner at the Logans' house for the first time.

 

I hope that'll be on YouTube.  Caroline may have been Sueish in the beginning, but by the end of the May episodes the praise has been toned down a bit and she's winning me over by acknowledging how sheltered she's been and trying to get a job instead of just settling down with Ridge (who's as insufferable as he's always been). I look forward to seeing her interact with the Logans.

 

Actually, the story of Amber and Rick and her golden ticket baby was the exact story that suckered me into this show. ;)

 

The baby was the only Amber plot I liked because it was so classically soapy and back then I could still hope that it would end with her screeching banished out of town.

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Speaking of Margo and Clarke, didn't they have a kid together? Dr. Mark, the guy that helped Steph fake her heart attack after Taylor returnex from the dead. I remember him as CJ's half-brother, but never knew who his mother was. With Bridget still a doctor at the time, it was a wasted oppertunity.

 

Margo was, indeed, Dr. Mark's mother.  If I'm not mistaken, his name is a combination of Margo and Clarke's names.  I remember how Clarke was practically messing his pants about Margo's threats to expose their affair and love child to Kristen.  

Given how fond Bradley is of triangles, I fully expected to see a triangle with Bridget, CJ and Dr. Mark.  I agree it was a wasted opportunity.  I would have loved to have seen the Forrester/Spectra feud carried over into a new generation with a Bridget and CJ pairing.  But, evidently it was more important for Bradley to pair Bridget with first Deacon, and then Ridge. 

 

Wasn't there a fancy restauraunt where the Forresters frequently dined in the 1990s? I think the owner was an old Frenchman Brooke met in Paris before her marriage to Eric.

 

 

The restaurant was called the Cafe Russe.  It was the equivalent to Y&R's Colonnade Room--the place where every woman was wined, dined and romanced by her wealthy suitor.  It was also the place where the Forresters dined when they wanted a special evening out.  IIRC Ridge had been known pull out all the stops by booking the entire restaurant just for himself and the lady he wanted to impress.  We used to also joke back then that Ridge had a revolving account and special relationship with Cartier.  It's another reason why nu-grungy-Ridge isn't working for me.  Even if retro Ridge had no intention of making it legal with Katie, he still would have replaced that silly string within a week despite whatever objections she may have had.  And, just to rub Brooke's nose in it, he would have made damned sure that Katie's ring rivaled anything he previously purchased for his "Logan."  He wouldn't have been able to resist making sure it was bigger than the rock Katie got from Bill. 

 

I also loved the fact that Caroline was willing to get from underneath her father's thumb and was determined to have a career.  I liked the fact that she at least tried and didn't just pay lip service to wanting to be independent.  Trying to explain that to that arrogant nimrod Ridge was like pulling teeth.  All he cared about was getting his ring back on Caroline's finger.  She even tried to patiently explain to Ridge why her father had such an aversion to cheating, given the way his own father humiliated his mother.  Of course, the introduction of Bill, Jr. decades later contradicted that.  It was very telling for me that Ridge didn't really start to truly love Caroline until he was faced with the prospect of losing her because of his screw-up with Alex.  Before that, it was clear by Ridge's body language and facial expressions that he merely proposed to Caroline to spite Bill.

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Cafe Russe has an even more colorful history. (I wish I could find the clip.) Anyway, during a time when Eric was married to Brooke (or trying hard to keep her from divorcing him), he surprised her by buying a restaurant for her. Cafe Russe was one of her favorite restaurants in Paris, so Eric convinced the owner to pack up and relocate to L.A. The was the way to introduce Robert Clary to the show. R.C.made cameos as the proprietor of Cafe Russe. I'd forgotten about that.

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I also loved the fact that Caroline was willing to get from underneath her father's thumb and was determined to have a career. I liked the fact that she at least tried and didn't just pay lip service to wanting to be independent.

A hundred times, this. Even after the attack* she didn't immediately run back to idiot Ridge or her daddy, but to stay with the Logans. I only got to the beginning of that story before I went to sea earlier this week, but suffice it to say it was already better written than the similar story Brooke got twenty years later.

*...which was so telegraphed that I'm a bit embarrassed to say the story was a bit of a surprise to me. I mean, what with the guy's creepy looks and monologues and dark lighting. B&B means never having to say "too subtle."

Edited by Anna Yolei
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Wow, Beth 1.0 didn't last long. I wonder what happened.

 

It's pretty hilarious that Brooke met all three of her Forrester husbands for the first time in the same episode.

 

Stephanie's interest in Kristen's love life is so creepy. Apart from the fact that Kristen is single and not looking for a man (oh no!), I don't think there's been anything to suggest that Stephanie could be even vaguely right about Kristen being too fixated on her father. Does she ever ask Kristen if she's a lesbian or would that have been too daring for 1980s daytime?

 

It was very telling for me that Ridge didn't really start to truly love Caroline until he was faced with the prospect of losing her because of his screw-up with Alex.

 

Alex is pretty interesting. I knew Ridge had ruined his first wedding by sleeping with another woman, but I didn't expect her to get so much screentime. I had the impression that it had just been a one-night stand with a model or something like that, but Alex has an actual storyline and a past with Storm.

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My first memories of B&B Brooke and Ridges wedding (well one of them anyway) where literally it was two weeks of episodes that took place/revolved around the wedding and reception and nothing else. (There was a CJ and Ric punch up (I think they had only been SORASed once at that point) and extremely fake looking waves on the beach set). I also remember Sally Spectre's over acting and scene chewing. Oh the delicious memories. But everything did appear to be bolder back then (pardon the pun) with the writers taking time to develop characters and story lines.

 

I found many of the B&B DVD specials (Best of B&B Weddings et cetera) a great way to catch up on old episodes and a great way to be introduced to characters as their younger selves and some (like Caroline) that where before my time.

 

I do remember the 'younger/teen appealing' characters in the mid-90s, the long forgotten Forrester Jessica, Dylan Shaw, the Lady Called Michael and not-Lisa Tuttle. I cannot remember the name of the beach cafe they hung at and it has been bugging me for a while. I think I have been watching too much 90210 lately as I have the Peach Pit stuck in my head (and it is clearly not that!). It is funny none of them lasted more then a couple of years though I did get caught up majorly in the Sly-raping-Jessica storyline, which for 15 year old me, was pretty intense.

 

One thing I never noticed back in the day, though I do notice now, is Stephanie's constant attempts to slut-shame Brooke (I may of just been a little too young and naive). I don't think the show ever pulled it off well, trying to do the family values angle with a family that had very little to begin with. In retrospect it does feel forced and awkward, and while it did give us plenty of brilliant Susan Flannery scene chewing moments, it does feel a little out of place as well.

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I do remember the 'younger/teen appealing' characters in the mid-90s, the long forgotten Forrester Jessica, Dylan Shaw, the Lady Called Michael and not-Lisa Tuttle. I cannot remember the name of the beach cafe they hung at and it has been bugging me for a while. I think I have been watching too much 90210 lately as I have the Peach Pit stuck in my head (and it is clearly not that!). 

The Bikini Bar? 

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I think it's Bikini Bar also, the place where Sly worked.  

 

Wouldn't Jessica be Ivy's older sister?  

 

the Lady Called Michael and not-Lisa Tuttle.

 

 

Michael Lai and Jasmine Malone!

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Speaking of bold, today I just watched an episode where Ridge was back on the market after Caroline left him and Stephanie is telling to be careful with partying too much. She tells him that AIDS is out there now and lots of folks that never thought they'd catch it now had it. B&B has always loved their social messages, but it 1980s Los Angeles and the circles that I'm sure a rich playboy frequented at the time and especially the industry he works in, it needed to be said.

Same goes for the Caroline rape story, which at times was over the top, but given some of the stupid shit male politicians were spewing during the last election cycle, this story is still very relevant today. I loved seeing Brooke be the guard dog against the Old Sexist Cop (I dunno what his name was) who was all but accusing her of leading the guy on and pressuring her to persue the case right now. There have always been stature of limitation laws that I recall in California growing up but I guess that wasn't the case back then?

This show's been a great history teacher of technology and how far we've come. When Brooke got pregnant the first time, she and Steph discuss her care and the latter has to remind herself that women no longer get X-ray imaging as she did. Today, 3D imaging is cheap enough that even the military now pays for it and I recently learned that the tech exists to predict a baby's birthweight to within onces.

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I too could recall the name of the Peach Pit but not the Bikini Bar! Just about the only things from the Jessica teen set era that I remember are Dylan being 1990s Magic Mike and Michael being very pretty. Even with screeching Amber, the Rick/CJ + friends teen set was much more interesting.

 

I'm really into Brooke and Caroline's friendship; it's going to be sad to watch it fall apart when Brooke gets involves with Ridge, who's unbearably smug and selfish. When Ridge was blaming Bill and Stephanie snapped at him that he was the one who cheated on Caroline, it was so satisfying. And damn, was she intimidating when she confronted Bill about messing with her family.

 

Overall the quality of the first five months has been really good. The only storyline I've given up on and started skipping is Donna and her boyfriend Mark, he's so one-dimensional and obviously a bad experience she's going to learn from. I know Brooke breaks up with Dave but at least he's decent, interacts with the rest of the cast at the Logan house, and they've found quite a lot of use for his detective job.

 

Same goes for the Caroline rape story, which at times was over the top, but given some of the stupid shit male politicians were spewing during the last election cycle, this story is still very relevant today.

 

Some of the retro stuff is terribly charming (the fashion, old phones and computers), but I expect the rape storyline will have a lot of depressing moments that show how little some things have changed in 25+ years.

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Wouldn't Jessica be Ivy's older sister?  

Half-sister I believe. So I believe there is another Forrester kidlet running out there as Maggie had two children, Jessica and another unseen, unnamed one (which isn't Ivy).

 

It is funny to think there use to be a rather large independent teen-set pre-Amber but once she came she basically dominated everything and sucked up all the teen/youngin' story lines until the SORASing of Thomas/Steffy/Phoebe a few years later.

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I think the teen set with Jessica and Company didn't work because it was just so forced. Like, she was there just to have a teen set that B&B didn't have to that point. That was just before my time so I can't comment on the quality of the SL, but I have a hard time believing it was any worse than the other teen set thst came post-Amber.

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Wow, Beth 1.0 didn't last long. I wonder what happened.

 

I also wondered what happened to the original Beth, who actually looked as if she could have been Brooke's mother.  She seemed so gentle and beaten down at times as if she was barely holding on.  I have to admit I was on pins and needles when she catered that first dinner party for the Forresters and hoped that Eric would recognize her.  I loved the brief flashback of their date while they were in college.  Maybe Bill Bell decided he needed a stronger actress to be a foil to Susan Flannery, who was already a well-established powerhouse.

 

Same goes for the Caroline rape story, which at times was over the top, but given some of the stupid shit male politicians were spewing during the last election cycle, this story is still very relevant today. I loved seeing Brooke be the guard dog against the Old Sexist Cop (I dunno what his name was) who was all but accusing her of leading the guy on and pressuring her to persue the case right now. There have always been stature of limitation laws that I recall in California growing up but I guess that wasn't the case back then?

 

This is one of the reasons I was very disappointed in how Brooke's rape storyline played out decades later.  It was bad enough that Stephanie unwittingly facilitated it by siccing Andy on Brooke, but it was penned as yet another vehicle to reunite GarBridge and to paint Ridge as some kind of hero.  I also understand that Susan Flannery was so upset about the storyline and the corner it painted her character in that she "called in sick" for several days, claiming that her Fibromyalgia had flared up.  I believe the storyline should have been about Brooke's empowerment.  It would have also been a powerful storyline in that a woman who had been repeatedly slut-shamed now find herself the victim of a brutal rape with the inevitable questions (did she lead him on, etc.) and judgments.  Seeing Brooke clinging to Ridge like her savior--another man who sexually assaulted her--made me sick.  I wanted the spunky Brooke back--the one who was willing to be used as a decoy to catch the criminals who tried to rape her.  There should have been nothing that Stephanie could say that should have made Brooke look at her with anything but the utmost contempt.

 

I'm really into Brooke and Caroline's friendship; it's going to be sad to watch it fall apart when Brooke gets involves with Ridge, who's unbearably smug and selfish. When Ridge was blaming Bill and Stephanie snapped at him that he was the one who cheated on Caroline, it was so satisfying. And damn, was she intimidating when she confronted Bill about messing with her family.

 

I loved Brooke and Caroline's friendship and I hated that it was fractured because of Brooke's interest in Ridge.  I even remember that skinny-dipping trick that Brooke played on Ridge because she was outraged that Ridge was dogging Caroline out.  When she described what happened to Beth later, she said that Ridge was arrogant, a jerk who thought he was God's gift to women and a creep.  It's a shame she repeatedly changed her mind.  To quote Iyanla Vazant, Caroline and Brooke "allowed a penis to penetrate [their] friendship.  PENIS!"

 

Oh, and rewatching those episodes also reminded me that Thorne had some shit with him, too, when it came to trying to bust up a relationship.  He deliberately invited Alex to the Forrester dinner party that Beth catered with the expectation of embarrassing Ridge.  Unfortunately for him, Alex backed out at the last minute to go on a date with Storm, who just graduated from law school and wanted to celebrate.

Edited by MulletorHater
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I hadn't heard that story about Susan Flannery. I had heard that KKL suggested the story to take a breather from being bounced between Ridge and Nick...only for the story to end with her in Ridge's arms.

The Caroline story (as far as I've seen from the uploaded episodes) has her talking to her father, who is ready to pounce on this situation to get her to move back in but she tells him that it's not happening. Later, she tells Thorne part of her wants to cave (understandably so) but in spite of what's happened, she's glad to have been out on her own. Holy fucking shit, ya mean a woman on this show ISN'T defined by who she does or doesn't sleep with? Blasphemy!

I've tried to avoid comparisons to the current Brat Pack (mainly because it's comparing apples to aircraft carriers) but I realized typing this that none of these kids have ever lived by themselves. If they're not at home with a parent, they're living with their current BF/GF (or wife, in Liam the waffle's case). Actually Thomas and Oliver had their never seen batchelor pad. Too bad nothing came of that.

Speaking of shacking up, Mark's voice....OMG, comedic gold. Coincidentally, I happen to work with a Russian guy that is Mark's height of 6'4" (with a passing resemblance, even more strangely) and his voice is not that deep at all. Where did TPTB find this guy? Or Rocco, for that matter? B&B has never been know for it's acting, but Ronn Moss could give them a few lessons.

Edited by Anna Yolei
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So I've been watching some of the vintage B&B from 1987 and then 1997 and while Ridge has always been one arrogant SOB, Ronn Moss had enough charm and humor to balance out his portrayal.  A viewer could still "root" for him and want him with Caroline, Brooke or Taylor depending on your preference. 

 

Looking back now, I think the turning point of the character was Taylor's death after being shot by Shelia and the Ridge/Bridget fandango.  The character just became a complete joke.

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This looks to be one of the last times the original Donna and Katie appeared in 2001, along with Grandma Logan:

 

Also

came up, and I can't figure out any context for this scene whatsoever, and the Polish voice over made it impossible to pick out the English.
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I think KKL was/is gorgeous, but I'm curious about her hair.  I wonder if her hair thinned out, or if the fuller hair she used to have was a wig.  I do understand that hair thins with age, but her's seems to have done so to an extreme.  I know some people are great at picking out a wig...I am not one of them :)

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A 10th anniversary special BTS segment, Part 1. Interesting about both Bells saying the core of the show is Family is everything, and Darla Conley mentioning that charcater development is more interesting that the plots (many of which had been recycled and done to death in soapdom even back then):

 

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