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On 11/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, HartofDixie said:

Okay if this "our sacrifice has been met with un-appreciation and betrayal" is about Mack's interview with Gymcastic, they can fuck right off. She was FAR more forgiving and nuanced than anyone had a right to ask her to be. I specifically remember her saying they were good people, they were just hard on her. I am sure their business got quite a nice bump from Mack's post-London publicity. Repeat after me, Artur and Co.: "I am not the victim here." 

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Dear Olympic Channel,

Hi, it's me again. Thank you for providing a live stream of the Cottbus World Cup on your website. When I tried to watch it on my iPad yesterday, though, it was practically unwatchable as an ad would automatically come on every minute, blocking out actual routines. But hey, at least watching the stream this morning on my laptop worked. But now, we have back our "favorite" inept British guy announcer. He doesn't know how to say the name Jorge? What broadcaster working in international sports doesn't know how to say the name Jorge? This guy, apparently. He thinks German giants on high bar are super innovative? Yes, they look cool, but they've been around for decades. Does he even know that they are called German giants? No, of course not. And don't get me started on him saying Lara Mori is "a real honey, this one." WTF? Oh, and saying that Rebeca Andrade's gymnastics isn't beautiful? Get the f**k out of here. 

I get that you're probably stuck with whoever FIG has hired as the English-language commentator for the world feed, but can't you turn off his commentary? Anyone dedicated enough to watch the livestream of a World Cup event can live without him, I promise you.

But, I do want to give a shoutout to Tanith Belbin for the commentary shown last night on TV. She actually called Tim Daggett out on his more inane comments, or at least asked him to clarify what he means. Now, if only you would replace Tim...

A Gymnastics Fan

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On 11/25/2018 at 12:31 PM, ombelico said:

Oh, and saying that Rebeca Andrade's gymnastics isn't beautiful? Get the f**k out of here. 

Them's fighting words, British announcer guy. 

How was Cottbus BTW? Worth the watch? 

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1 hour ago, PoshSprinkles said:

How was Cottbus BTW? Worth the watch? 

The Brazilians had a fantastic meet overall, so it's worth at least watching their routines. 

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I never ever thought I'd see a gymnast on the cover. She hasn't lost since 2013. Then took a year off and came back like it was nothing. This is why I can't get so attached to athletes. They retire and move on from the sport. Gymnastics wont be the same without Simone. 

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It's not just that Simone doesn't lose. It's that she's revolutionizing the sport. There are only a few male gymnasts that can do the vault that now carries her name on the women's side. In Rio, she was already competing the most difficult floor routine ever seen, but her floor routine now is just absolutely extraordinary in comparison. I mean, she DISMOUNTS with a double twisting double tuck. That is unheard of. Yes, the equipment is (overall) better quality than in previous decades, which facilitates her gymnastics, but she's just amazing, both in terms of natural talent and body structure, but also in terms of her work ethic and desire to push herself to her limits.

I completely agree that gymnastics won't be the same without her, but her legacy will be that she has shown what is possible for a female gymnast, far beyond what was ever thought possible before. She is absolutely the right choice for the most dominant athlete. 

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 She is absolutely the right choice for the most dominant athlete. 

And let's face it -- she could be an event specialist on the MEN'S team. High bar?  Vault?  Floor?  TOTALLY.  If nothing else, maybe her presence would stop the US guys from continually choking.  The US men cannot stop their self-destructive ways championship after championship.

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On 12/17/2018 at 1:09 PM, AuntieDiane6 said:

And let's face it -- she could be an event specialist on the MEN'S team. High bar?  Vault?  Floor?  TOTALLY.  If nothing else, maybe her presence would stop the US guys from continually choking.  The US men cannot stop their self-destructive ways championship after championship.

Can someone or you explain to me why the men aren't as good?

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On 12/19/2018 at 10:16 PM, Darknight said:

Can someone or you explain to me why the men aren't as good?

I'll defend the men here as I'm one of the few MAG fans that post on this board. 

Our men are not as bad as many make them out to be. The main issue USA MAG faces is depth (boys tend to be pushed to basketball, football, soccer and NOT gymnastics as it's seen by many as a girly sport), funding (seriously, even USAG seems to forget about we have a men's team), and opportunity (even if boys wanted to do gymnastics there are limited programs around the country for them to participate). 

You also have to take into account that male gymnasts don't peak until they're in their early-mid 20s whereas the women peak in their teens (mostly) and retire by the time they'd be going into college. If the men decide to go into NCAA to pay for college they have to abide by NCAA rules and can only practice a set amount of time each week or forfeit their right to participate (20 hours, I think?) AND they can't take any endorsements/sponsorships. If the men don't go the NCAA route and want to just do gymnastics then they have to have some means of viable support since training is a full-time job. Most people in this country can't afford to not work or have the means not to, so you lose men that way as well. 

This brings me to the main advantage that other countries have- they support their gymnasts full-stop. No one on the dominant teams has to worry about working a typical job to bring in income to support themselves and their families. Other countries also don't have a limit placed on their training if they do go to college (see the Japanese men's team members) and aren't penalized if they decide to do endorsements/sponsorships (see again the Japanese men's team members). These countries see training as their athlete's main job and make sure they have the tools necessary to compete and be successful. There's always a downside, of course, as those countries are VERY harsh if their teams don't do well and some of those athletes are literally competing for their lives. 

The fact that with all of our disadvantages we sit at a pretty solid 4th/5th in the world is astounding. I realize that everyone wants us to get gold in EVERYTHING, but with USAG being burned to the ground at the moment that's unlikely to happen. If the men's team wants to be successful they need to seriously prioritize creating men's only programs in different regions of the country, scout local clubs for up and coming boys with potential, and then give more backing to those young men as they move up the ranks. They would also need a cultural shift that views gymnastics as more of a masculine, athletic, and strength-based sport than its current view that it's a strictly feminine sport based on grace and artistry (this view is shifting as well). 

Finally, the men have had individual successes that shouldn't be discounted. At the 2016 Olympics Danell managed two silvers and Alex managed a bronze on the dreaded pommel horse. Considering that they were competing against a lot of athletes who are specialists and only train one apparatus, that's pretty significant. 

Yes, I get mad with all of you when our guys don't deliver, but then I have to take a step back and remember everything they are up against (centralized training programs, specialists, funding, etc.) and what they need to get to the same level as the women. You also have to remember that it wasn't so long ago that the women's team was awful and it wasn't until USAG managed to get the Karolyis (speaking from the perspective of before we knew about all the abuse) and a lucky USSR breakup that we started seeing tremendous and consistent success. 

I'll always support our guys even with my all-out love for the Japanese and Russian MAG teams <3. 

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1 hour ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I'll defend the men here as I'm one of the few MAG fans that post on this board. 

Our men are not as bad as many make them out to be. The main issue USA MAG faces is depth (boys tend to be pushed to basketball, football, soccer and NOT gymnastics as it's seen by many as a girly sport), funding (seriously, even USAG seems to forget about we have a men's team), and opportunity (even if boys wanted to do gymnastics there are limited programs around the country for them to participate). 

You also have to take into account that male gymnasts don't peak until they're in their early-mid 20s whereas the women peak in their teens (mostly) and retire by the time they'd be going into college. If the men decide to go into NCAA to pay for college they have to abide by NCAA rules and can only practice a set amount of time each week or forfeit their right to participate (20 hours, I think?) AND they can't take any endorsements/sponsorships. If the men don't go the NCAA route and want to just do gymnastics then they have to have some means of viable support since training is a full-time job. Most people in this country can't afford to not work or have the means not to, so you lose men that way as well. 

This brings me to the main advantage that other countries have- they support their gymnasts full-stop. No one on the dominant teams has to worry about working a typical job to bring in income to support themselves and their families. Other countries also don't have a limit placed on their training if they do go to college (see the Japanese men's team members) and aren't penalized if they decide to do endorsements/sponsorships (see again the Japanese men's team members). These countries see training as their athlete's main job and make sure they have the tools necessary to compete and be successful. There's always a downside, of course, as those countries are VERY harsh if their teams don't do well and some of those athletes are literally competing for their lives. 

The fact that with all of our disadvantages we sit at a pretty solid 4th/5th in the world is astounding. I realize that everyone wants us to get gold in EVERYTHING, but with USAG being burned to the ground at the moment that's unlikely to happen. If the men's team wants to be successful they need to seriously prioritize creating men's only programs in different regions of the country, scout local clubs for up and coming boys with potential, and then give more backing to those young men as they move up the ranks. They would also need a cultural shift that views gymnastics as more of a masculine, athletic, and strength-based sport than its current view that it's a strictly feminine sport based on grace and artistry (this view is shifting as well). 

Finally, the men have had individual successes that shouldn't be discounted. At the 2016 Olympics Danell managed two silvers and Alex managed a bronze on the dreaded pommel horse. Considering that they were competing against a lot of athletes who are specialists and only train one apparatus, that's pretty significant. 

Yes, I get mad with all of you when our guys don't deliver, but then I have to take a step back and remember everything they are up against (centralized training programs, specialists, funding, etc.) and what they need to get to the same level as the women. You also have to remember that it wasn't so long ago that the women's team was awful and it wasn't until USAG managed to get the Karolyis (speaking from the perspective of before we knew about all the abuse) and a lucky USSR breakup that we started seeing tremendous and consistent success. 

I'll always support our guys even with my all-out love for the Japanese and Russian MAG teams <3. 

Thank you. I wish athletes would get more funding and support. It's hard training when you have bill's to pay. I know many take on part time jobs.

 

 

I also agree, boys have other sports to choose from. I'm a dance mom. Dance is seen as a girl thing especially ballet. 

 

 

Question do colleges have many men gymnastics programs like women do? 

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20 minutes ago, Darknight said:

Question do colleges have many men gymnastics programs like women do? 

No - there are only 16 Division 1 teams (and if Univ. of Illinois Chicago follows through on canceling both men's and women's gymnastics after this season, there will only be 15 left).

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On 12/21/2018 at 2:14 PM, PoshSprinkles said:

Finally, the men have had individual successes that shouldn't be discounted. At the 2016 Olympics Danell managed two silvers and Alex managed a bronze on the dreaded pommel horse. Considering that they were competing against a lot of athletes who are specialists and only train one apparatus, that's pretty significant. 

I agree about all the obstacles they have to overcome to compete at that level, but then it seems like they squander the opportunity once they get there, especially at the Olympics. The 2012 Olympic team was stacked with talent, and there was mistake after mistake in the team final. And then there’s Sam Mikulak. He has so much talent, but he has blown so many chances to medal. 

It’s also just frustrating to watch bad decisions about who’s given chances, and who isn’t. Out of the last four Olympic medals won by US men three were won by Danell Leyva, but he was originally named as an alternate for Rio. He ended up winning two silver medals (and IMO he deserved gold on parallel bars). It’s ridiculous that he was ever an alternate.

One of my favorite gymnastics moments was the 2008 Olympic team winning bronze. As the night went on I was cautiously optimistic they would medal. Then I was sure they would blow it on pommel horse. But they hung in there! And they were so happy! It’s been ten years, and I’m still always hoping the US can put together another team like that who will rise to the occasion when it counts.

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I agree about all the obstacles they have to overcome to compete at that level, but then it seems like they squander the opportunity once they get there, especially at the Olympics. The 2012 Olympic team was stacked with talent, and there was mistake after mistake in the team final. And then there’s Sam Mikulak. He has so much talent, but he has blown so many chances to medal. 

Absolutely!  There also is no reason why we couldn't have scooped up a Russian coach too ...  Lack of funding etc. does not contribute to the sloppy landings and loss of concentration mid-routine.  I remember when US coaches complained about the Karolyi's snatching away Marilu and Julianne and Bela getting a "sponsor's pass" to be on the floor (near competition area) at the 1984 Olympics and when he was asked about the other US coaches and their attitude, Bela simply said, "Gentlemen, produce!" 
 

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12 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

It’s also just frustrating to watch bad decisions about who’s given chances, and who isn’t. Out of the last four Olympic medals won by US men three were won by Danell Leyva, but he was originally named as an alternate for Rio. He ended up winning two silver medals (and IMO he deserved gold on parallel bars). It’s ridiculous that he was ever an alternate.

The Danell situation was a weird one. I agree he should have been named outright, but I understand why he wasn't. He was forced to compete at nationals with injuries in order to compete at trials and performed badly, which didn't help his cause. He is/was kind of a diva too, which didn't endear him to USAG and didn't garner him the goodwill of the committee like it did John Orozco. I ultimately think that John and Danell were fighting for the same spot and they gave it to John because they liked him more than Danell. If John hadn't been an option at all, then I think Danell would have been named outright. 

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39 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

The Danell situation was a weird one. I agree he should have been named outright, but I understand why he wasn't. He was forced to compete at nationals with injuries in order to compete at trials and performed badly, which didn't help his cause. He is/was kind of a diva too, which didn't endear him to USAG and didn't garner him the goodwill of the committee like it did John Orozco. I ultimately think that John and Danell were fighting for the same spot and they gave it to John because they liked him more than Danell. If John hadn't been an option at all, then I think Danell would have been named outright. 

You’re right. It wasn’t a clear a decision at the time. I think the fact that Danell’s injury came from his dogs biting him and wasn’t gymnastics related made USAG completely unsympathetic towards him.

I was just annoyed because John Orozco underperformed at the London Games, and Danell was a reigning Olympic AA medalist. If USAG had to give one the benefit of the doubt over the other, I thought it should have been Danell. Of course, it’s easy for me to say that now knowing how Danell did in Rio.

Edited by Jeddah
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Other countries also don't have a limit placed on their training if they do go to college

Nitpick: going to college in the U.S. doesn't place any limit on an athlete's training. If they want an NCAA scholarship, then they have to follow the rules. But they can go to college anywhere they want and train 80 hours a week if they want to. Witness the top U.S. men's figure skater, Nathan Chen, who's a first-year student at Yale.

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On 12/28/2018 at 4:29 PM, HartofDixie said:
 

That's amazing. I love how much he points his toes. He points his toes more than most female floor workers. Similarly, here are Nastia and Shawn watching males perform female gymnastics. It's weird how Shawn was always portrayed as bubbly and outgoing and Nastia as shy and reserved but in these videos Shawn is the quieter one and Nastia is the louder one.

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7 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I love how much he points his toes. He points his toes more than most female floor workers. 

The lack of toe point in women's gymnastics in recent years just kills me. A lot of the time you can tell that all they're doing is curling their toes under (as opposed to pointing the whole foot). It drives me CRAZY. I was going to say on floor but then I realized it drives me crazy on every event. Back in ye olden days, the female gymnasts had pointed toes on beam, on bars, on floor, and even on vault. Now if their feet aren't actively flexed, apparently that's good enough.

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Katelyn Ohashi's perfect 10 floor routine from this weekend has gone viral (her skill level is no surprise because she is a former elite gymnast who beat Simone Biles for the American Cup all around title in her first international meet as a senior back in 2013):

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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I enjoyed the hell out of that program, especially the music. Hearing "I Want You Back" alone (which a friend and I have been arguing someone should skate to...) - all those intros and bits put together was terrific. And I loved the performance level - someone actually performing to the song. 

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This is the second year in a row that Ohashi has gone viral. UCLA's going to miss her next year (as well as Coach Val).

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Poor Mckayla.  Her tribute to him on her social media was touching.  The only thing I know about either of her parents was that they framed that photo of her face (you know the one) from the Olympics as a funny surprise when she returned home.  That move tells us that they have a great sense of humor and a strong enough relationship that they knew they could tease her about it without adding to the disappointment she felt at not winning the gold.  I hope it's a long time before she has to deal with any more heartache.

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On 1/15/2019 at 3:32 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Katelyn Ohashi's perfect 10 floor routine from this weekend has gone viral (her skill level is no surprise because she is a former elite gymnast who beat Simone Biles for the American Cup all around title in her first international meet as a senior back in 2013):

 

Katelyn & Miss Val on GMA

 

Shawn made a video with her hubby to Katelyn floor routine.

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MSU interim president resigns after more controversial remarks about Nassar abuse victims

John Engler has not been much of an ally to these women in the year since he became interim president, so it's not surprising that he continues to say shitty things. This time he accused the victims of enjoying the spotlight and said he would not support further investigation into the abuse:

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Engler's most recent troubling remarks came last week in an interview with The Detroit News editorial board. In the final paragraph of a story about which victims the school's Healing Assistance Fund would benefit, Engler was quoted as saying there were people who were "hanging on" to the Nassar issue.

"There are a lot of people who are touched by this: survivors who haven't been in the spotlight," Engler said, according to the paper. "In some ways they have been able to deal with this better than the ones who've been in the spotlight, who are still enjoying that moment at times -- you know, the awards and recognition. And it's ending. It's almost done."

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"There are some people who want to continue to investigate and inquire into lots of things," Engler said. "I wouldn't support any more ... We're trying to get rid of lawyers and consultants now. We're trying to go back to work."

Also of note:

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After Trustee Joel Ferguson successfully nominated Trustee Dianne Byrum as chair of the board this week, Rachael Denhollander tweeted five things that Byrum has refused to do.

Among them was opening an independent investigation. 

"We asked for this for months," Denhollander tweeted. "It took Penn State only a few days to take this step. MSU never did. And then they refused to cooperate with the AG's investigation. You want change? Find out what needs to change first. Investigate."

And the CNN article kindly reminded us what a great guy John Engler has been throughout his time as interim president of MSU.

In June, Engler asserted that Rachael J. Denhollander, the first woman to publicly accuse the doctor, was likely to get a “kickback” from her lawyer, John C. Manly, for her role in the “manipulation” of survivors.

In an email he sent to Carol M. Viventi, vice president and special counsel to the president:

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"At least we know what really happened. The survivors now are being manipulated by trial lawyers who in the end will each get millions of dollars more than any of [sic] individual survivors with the exception of Denhollander who is likely to get [sic] kickback from Manley [sic] for her role in the trial lawyer manipulation.

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Denhollander, who has emerged as a vocal survivors’ advocate, was aghast but not surprised. Engler has consistently focused on money, she said. “It is out of his comprehension that someone would do something for anything other than money and power. I am not getting kickbacks, ever.” She continued: “It shows all the more deeply his own mind-set toward sexual-assault survivors. The idea that he is going to be able to solve the problems of the school when this is what he says about sexual-assault survivors is absolutely ridiculous. Engler needs to go.” 

A few days later, John Engler offered another Nassar victim $250K

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During a public-comment portion of the Friday board meeting, the gymnast, Kaylee Lorincz, described a recent private meeting with Engler. Lorincz, who is among more than 200 people now suing Michigan State over Nassar’s abuse, said she had spoken with Engler about the university’s attempts to reform its response to sexual-assault cases.

“Mr. Engler then looked directly at me,” she said, “and asked, Right now, if I wrote you a check for $250,000, would you take it?” Before she had completed the sentence, members of the audience were gasping.

Lorincz said that when she told Engler that it was not about money for her, “he said, ‘Well, give me a number.’” According to Lorincz’s testimony, the president told her that he had spoken with Rachael Denhollander, the first woman to publicly accuse Nassar of sexual abuse. Lorincz said that Engler then told her that he had met with Denhollander and that “she gave him a number” — a price at which she would settle her civil suit against the university.

“I felt like I was being bullied,” Lorincz said.

Denhollander later told ESPN she had never met with Engler.

The CNN article also reminds us that John Engler has a history of not being cooperative with sexual assault investigations:

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As Michigan's governor through much of the 1990s, he refused to grant US Justice Department and United Nations investigators access to the state's female prisons amid accusations that inmates were being raped and sexually abused.

So yeah, no one is going to be crying about his resignation.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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So why is the floor exercise music boring? I’m so used to the fast cuts and more techno - was there a rule change?

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On 1/18/2019 at 3:52 PM, HartofDixie said:

Katelyn & Miss Val on GMA

Shawn made a video with her hubby to Katelyn floor routine.

I'm happy she found happiness again in gymnastics. I love her personality 

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This Sunday NBCSN will air the Stuttgart World Cup from 4:30-6:30PM ET. Simone and Aliya will be competing.

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Simone Biles’ routines at the World Cup (the commentator is awful, so just hit mute until floor):

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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UCLA’s Miss Val got a dance party send off at this season’s last home meet. In her 29 years as head coach, UCLA has won 7 NCAA titles and 12 Pac 12 titles. She has been Pac 12 coach of the year four times!  

At UCLA’s final home meet, Kyla Ross scored a 10 on floor giving her a career grand slam (a 10 on every event) giving her a total of nine 10s this year and fourteen total 10s. Katelyn Ohashi scored her tenth 10 (8 on floor, 5 this season):

Kyla’s floor routine:

Miss Val tribute:

UCLA seniors:

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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24 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Simone Biles’ routines at the World Cup (the commentator is awful, so just hit mute until floor):

She looked great. She even down graded some of her skills. I also liked Elisabeth from Germany and Anna from Canada. They looked great too! 

Jade Carey looked great at the AGF Trophy/FIG Apparantus Final in Baku.
So did Lara Mori and Vanessa Ferrari.

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