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  1. AwesomO4000

    Supernatural Spin-Off Ideas

    I agree. I don't think it could be done well enough to avoid being compared to the original... especially because I think it would be hard to find young actors who could portray the personalities of Sam and Dean. And any writers who didn't stay with the personalities would run the risk of viewer thinking "Sam and Dean wouldn't do that / say that." Not to mention making sure the new series plot didn't contradict the original series. As a loose example: I remember one of the things that bugged me most about the X-Men movie franchise was the part in the final movie where Rogue chose to take the "cure." I remember thinking "what? Rogue wouldn't do that," because... and okay I'm outing myself as dork here because I was too old for this really, but I watched the "X-Men" cartoon series in college, and Rogue in that series had a similar opportunity and didn't take it, and I wanted the Rogue in the movie to have the same maturity and depth... which is weird considering the other Rogue was a cartoon character, but hey... As for a spin-off I'd like to see... It's never going to happen, and I'm likely the only one who would want it - not too mention it would be way too costly - but what I'd want would be something that would leave Sam and Dean alone... not touch their legacy or have the chance to mess it up. So what I'd want is - and this is off the wall, I know - a spin off with Ash and Heaven Bobby. I'd want the heaven problem to be fixed somehow and the angels heading back towards their controlled Memorex heaven, but Ash and Bobby being sneaky and surly and trying to buck the heaven system. Each episode would be Ash and Bobby visiting other heavens, saving people from heaven's jail, helping those souls who aren't happy with the illusion and them banding together to try to get heaven to change. On the way they would be reuniting souls who had been separated by heaven's rules... plenty of opportunities for original stories and maybe even unexpected results (as in maybe only one of the souls really wanted to be united or has mixed feelings for whatever reason, they can only reunite for a short time, etc.). There could be opportunities for original Supernatural characters to have guest spots as they either die and enter heaven or contact heaven or visit it for some reason or another. Naomi could be the "bad guy," but it could be more complex than that... in that trying to change heaven might not go so smoothly or some of the souls might cause problems rather than help. Demons could try to manipulate somehow. So Naomi might have a point in wanting to keep things orderly in that it's more practical. That would be what I'd want as a spin off.
  2. AwesomO4000

    S06 Discussion

    Oh I think it was that. Also there was likely angel chatter about it when either Sam or Dean hit heaven, and Ash was monitoring the angel chatter - he called his system a holy-rolling police scanner - so he would likely know when they showed up that way. I like to imagine that when either of them showed up in heaven that the angels would be on alert, and that kind of chatter would get back to Ash via his computer monitoring system. Ash even said that's how he found out about them, that he heard that Sam and Dean were "up" from his scanner. But I don't think Ash would want a fake Memorex Ellen. I'm guessing he likely did look for evidence of Ellen and Jo at first and maybe even for a while, but it was quite a while after Ash died before Ellen and Jo did ...2 1/2 seasons show time. Ash might not have done a more recent search for them before Sam and Dean showed up, and he had heard the angel chatter that Sam and Dean were there and in trouble to know that they were back. It wasn't just a random search. As for Ash and The Roadhouse, he stayed there sometimes, but he also took multiple "vacations" to other peoples' heavens, probably on a routine basis.*** I'm guessing much of his time in The Roadhouse was spent monitoring angel chatter and making sure he knew how to avoid the angels finding him and improving his "skills." I'm sure the angels wouldn't be too happy if they found out about his heaven-hopping. *** Ash said that he'd been all over heaven. Some examples he gave: Johnny Cash, Andre the Giant, Albert Einstein, and the guy who wrote the Kama Sutra. He said that he found him just the other day, implying that he goes searching and visiting a lot. The fact that Ash came across Pamela at some point - and knew that Pamela would want to see Sam and Dean - to me means that Ash got around a LOT^^^... either that, or that Zachariah was doing a little manipulating in heaven. ^^^ Because as far as we know, Ash didn't know Pamela before he died, or if he did, it was through Bobby and likely only in passing or through reputation.
  3. AwesomO4000

    S06 Discussion

    I'm thinking that Ash made his "Ashland" the way that he wanted. I'm thinking because he was a whiz at the tech stuff and could hack into the Enochian communications that he somehow short-circuited heaven's usual Memorex programming, so that there were no other memory "people" in his Roadhouse. Ash's heaven seemed to be more in the present rather than memories he'd had. I think he was probably watching for Sam and Dean because he knew that they were hunters. He might've checked at first for Ellen and Jo, but after not seeing them, figured that once the Roadhouse burned down that maybe Ellen and Jo had given up that life, especially after not seeing them for so long after he got to heaven. Sam likely showed up pretty quickly, and then Dean likely showed up a bunch of times ("Mystery Spot") not too long after that. Those are my theories anyway.
  4. I disagree. There are at least a few examples of when Dean might say or even talk himself into thinking that he's worrying about someone else first, but in my opinion, that's not always true. Other times, he just flat out sees his own needs or his own priorities as more important. The fallout from John's death, the fallout from the deal, the fallout from season 4, his wanting to say "yes" to Michael, the fallout from Amy Pond, the fallout from Gadreel: those are just some examples, in my opinion, of Dean dealing with his own feelings in his own way first and foremost rather than dealing with other's feelings first. And I'm not saying that Dean shouldn't have done so... I'm just saying that, in my opinion, he did so. And though Dean did bottle up his feelings sometimes, in some cases he chose to do so because that's what he wanted to do, not because he did it so that he could focus on others' feelings. And again, I'm not saying that that was right or wrong, just that it was. For me, Dean is more complex than absolutes. Sometimes Dean does worry about others first or puts their feelings first, but that's not all he is. There are a lot of times he doesn't, and he has very varied Dean reasons for doing so that he's likely thought long and hard about - or conversely trusted his gut instinct on - and has various selfish or selfless reasons for doing so.
  5. 1) and 3) I somewhat agree with the simplest explanation part, but I disagree on what that simplest explanation is. For me, the writers aren't "ignoring" Dean's reaction because they don't think Dean is important, or they don't think that Dean has any feelings on the issue. I think the writers are focusing on Sam's issues, because, as you said "even though the responsibility for it falls on Sam and Castiel." Bingo. The simplest thing to do then? Focus on how Sam feels guilty, because the show agrees that Sam has more responsibility for what happened. So why make things more complicated and not simple by also focusing on some guilt that Dean might feel for something that the writers feel isn't really Dean's fault? That would complicate things... and likely earn them a "why does Dean's have to feel guilty? This isn't even his fault." How to avoid that? Make it simple. Show Sam feeling guilty, because the writers think Sam has reason to feel guilty. That's my "simplest explanation," and considering that my simplest explanation is different than others' simplest explanation is a pretty good argument that either there isn't necessarily a simple explanation or that if there is one, we don't necessarily know which "simplest explanation" is the one the writers were going for. Otherwise everyone would have come to the same simplest conclusion. 2) For me, that's what the "Jack looks up to you" stuff was all about. Actually in my opinion, it looks more like the writers think that the Dean/Jack relationship is the more important one. Jack went from being associated with Sam to looking up to Dean first and foremost. In my opinion, I don't see much leeway for how Sam and Castiel could show Dean their concern and/or make him a priority in a way that is both acceptable and in character. Generally when Sam tries to help Dean, he's accused of "pushing" rather than helping ...Or projecting his feelings onto Dean or some other supposedly selfish thing. He's often accused of not just letting Dean deal with things in his own time and asking for help if he needs it. Sam and Castiel already know how Dean feels about this - "I told you..." - In my opinion, either of them asking Dean if he's alright could very well be interpreted as falling into inferring that Dean would have a reason to feel guilty about what happened... not something Sam or Castiel would want to do, in my opinion. Better to let Dean let them know if he wants to talk, share his feelings, etc. I also disagree that Dean is never Sam's first priority. It's just that often when Dean is Sam's first priority - some examples, imo: Sam trying to find a way to get Dean out of his deal in season 3, Sam worrying about Dean's depression in season 7, and Sam trying to find/save Dean from being a demon and then the mark of Cain in season 10 - Sam is often criticized for that, too. Dean can be Sam's first priority but only if he does it in such a way that let's Dean do exactly what he wants or generally does so in a way that actually wouldn't do much of anything at all anyway. And Sam also better not do it in a way that seems to be "pushing" ...in other words likely not to be in any way that actually looks like something Sam would do. (Because when Sam wants to help and thinks he needs to, he gets earnest about it, and backing off and just watching Dean suffer in silence while he knows Dean is suffering is likely not going to be a thing Sam wants to do. He'll do it - "Everybody Loves a Clown" - but not before there's been drama, pushback, and consequences.) When has possession ever really been dwelt upon by the show? Even when Sam was dealing with his Lucifer hallucinations, the general tone was that Sam was zen about it while Dean was the one who they needed to worry about. Later it was no big deal that Sam lend his home to Lucifer and work with him. Gadreel - same thing. Sam went fairly quickly from it being a horrible experience to Gadreel being a "misunderstood" ally. Meg, of all people, became a talking buddy Sam shared personal information with about the supposed love of his life that he likely didn't even share with Dean (me: No, just no.) Is there anyone who possessed Sam that the writers didn't make him be allies or friends with at some point? I think it was pretty similar with Castiel and Lucifer also... didn't Castiel have to help save Lucifer even? I see this less as the show ignoring the possession effects because it's Dean, and more because that's often what they do anyway no matter who it is being possessed. Dean may even come out of it a little better in some way in that maybe the writers won't make Dean be allies or friends with Michael. Jack doesn't look up to Garth. He looks up to Dean.
  6. I'm interested as well... I'm also wondering that after season 8 and the - in my opinion - Amelia fiasco and cut-short purgatory arc if Jared and Jensen maybe looked more fondly in retrospect on Gamble. (Well, maybe more Jared than Jensen, because I think Sam's character - at least for me - fared much better under Gamble than he did under Carver's reign.)
  7. AwesomO4000

    S14.E15: Peace of Mind

    I was gonna say the same thing - hee!
  8. AwesomO4000

    S14.E15: Peace of Mind

    I disagree. Sam pretty much relinquished field control to Maggie at least 6 episode ago, which in show time - because there was a time gap - is weeks at least, potentially a month or more by this episode. And Sam seemed perfectly fine with having Maggie take over, beyond apologizing for her having to take on the responsibility. Maggie pretty much had the field leadership role handed over to her in episode 9, and I doubt that would have just happened out of the blue. Sam likely would have been working with her enough or interacting with her enough to trust giving her all of that responsibility. I didn't see Sam having any trouble letting go of control. As far as I remember, Sam praised Maggie for the job that she had been doing, and seemed to trust her a lot. And in the last episode, Sam seemed fine with just "checking in" every once in a while while Maggie and the others took care of things on their own while Sam worked his own case with the Gorgon. Maybe that's one of the reasons why he feels guilty now... he's questioning if he should have been there more for the team like he was before: no, in my opinion, because there wasn't anything he could have done beyond putting Dean in the box earlier. This was just a set up for Sam to fail all around. There was no way - as far as I could tell - that Sam wasn't going to fail. And then imo this episode let us know that that was the purpose through having Castiel point it out.
  9. AwesomO4000

    S14.E15: Peace of Mind

    Which Sam did do in the past couple of episodes... so because there was a time gap, he had been doing that (delegating) for a few weeks or more now. The reason why he didn't delegate at first wasn't because he didn't trust his crew or know why he needed to delegate. It was because he wanted a distraction. A way not to think about Dean being hijacked by Michael. So if he wasn't busy, he'd have to feel guilty about why he wasn't looking for Dean at that moment and he would have time to worry about Dean, so he kept busy all of the time to avoid doing that. Sam was doing the same thing in this episode. Dean said that they had gone on three hunts in a row, and once again Sam was not sleeping enough. Even Castiel noticed that Sam wasn't getting enough sleep. Sam was trying to avoid staying in the bunker and was making sure that he was always being busy so he wouldn't have time to feel guilty about the AU hunters dying. This is what Sam does and has done for a while now. He did the same thing when Dean became a demon, running himself ragged looking for Dean. This is one character trait that the writers have kept consistent lately.
  10. I don't think Jesse was actually as easily created as Castiel seemed to be saying he was. Cas said that Jesse was just "demon spawn," but Jesse wasn't born from a demon having sex with a human. Jesse was born to a woman who was a virgin. Somehow the demon got Jesse's mother pregnant when he possessed her. In my opinion, that was deliberate and a heavy duty supernatural happening, since otherwise woman who had been possessed would be getting pregnant more often.
  11. For me, the show was character driven through season 7... bu­­t starting in season 8, it became plot driven. And for me, it wasn't a subtle or slow change. As I was watching the first episode of season 8, I was saying to the television "who are these people?" Sam, especially, I didn't recognize. After the second episode of season 8, I stopped watching for a while.*** I came back, but things for me were never as character-driven as they were before, with many plots relying on the characters doing things that didn't make sense for me character-wise in order to make the plot go where they wanted it to. There have been seasons and moments when they got it back for a while, but it doesn't generally last, in my opinion. *** I eventually went back and watched most of the episodes I had missed, but that didn't really fill in any blanks or make anything make sense in terms of characterization... the explanation for a character's behavior was sometimes almost literally *shrug* or "just because." Terrible, in my opinion. The show spent seven years establishing characterization, and then threw it out the window when it got in the way of the story they wanted to tell - which might've been more forgivable if it at least had been a good story... it wasn't, in my opinion. Definitely not worth the character destruction.
  12. AwesomO4000

    Small Talk: The Impala

    Oh, man, really? I just found out that Project Runway is returning this Thursday at 8... Why are they doing that to me? Because yes, I am one of those weird people for whom those genres do intersect. It's likely one of the only other long-running shows that I obsess over. I'll have to look and see if they repeat Project Runway later in the night... Crap it's hard to tell. Yes! they do repeat from 11:30 to 1 AM. I can do that. Season 17 - who knew that show would last that long, though I was hooked from the very first episode. Season 1 was awesome with Wendy Pepper being one of the best reality show self-appointed villainesses (oh come on, that must be a word) ever. It wasn't as good after those first 6 or 7 seasons or so, but there were a few good seasons after - and some really bad ones too (hmmm, why does that sound familiar?). I just can't seem to stop watching it though... In short, Project Runway is coming back ...and back to Bravo, too! I might be over here at a table for one, but I can't wait! Because as "It's A Terrible Life" Dean says: "All I wanna know is when are they gonna have another show like Project Runway? Man!"
  13. I remember a James Marsters panel at Dragon*Con where he talked about this a bit. Season 6 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer - specifically the scene where Spike attempted to rape Buffy - really depressed him. He was somewhat of a method actor and he said that he broke down in tears that night when he got home and almost couldn't get through it. He said the experience wrecked him for a bit. He felt like an awful person, because he couldn't let go of playing the character.
  14. In the last episode, it took exactly one hit for Sam to be knocked down... on two different occasions I believe. At least Dean got some hits in before he got his head bashed. Dean also did the majority of the fighting with Michael while Sam couldn't even keep from losing the one thing he was sent to get... oh and losing Jack also, because he couldn't watch his damn back. Sam doesn't pick locks anymore, because Jack apparently could pick that up form the internet. Last season, Sam couldn't even protect one person from vampires. Dean managed to protect his charge and save her - twice. Oh, and then Sam got himself killed. I'm just not seeing the "consummate hunter skills" being portrayed that you are. I see Sam as being shown as more incompetent all the time. I disagree here. Dean was the one who came up with locking Michael up, and was the one who convinced Michael that the two of them together were the only way to stop Lucifer, so that they could stop Lucifer. Dean also figured out the case in "Nightmare Logic," so for me "never" dosen't apply.
  15. Considering that Dabb made his character sign up with the group that tortured him and was obviously evil - but Sam was supposedly too stupid to see it - and then of course they are evil, so that Sam is wrong. Again. As always - I'm pretty sure he would have plenty to complain about. Jared as far as I know doesn't even like the "leader Sam" storyline. And I can see why, because it not only doesn't fit with Sam's characterization - which I think Jared thinks so, too - it trashed his previous characterization. Not that the leadership storyline was actually showing Sam as a good leader anyway. It generally just managed to show Sam messing up (the end of season 13) and "leading" because he couldn't deal with Dean being gone, usually while making questionable decisions. Now with the death of the AU hunters which pretty much kills the stupid "leadership" storyline, while at the same time making sure that the majority of the blame for the AU hunters' deaths will be on Sam - the "I told you so" setting that up - we've once again got innocent lives put almost solely on Sam's hands. This is just the dozenth or so iteration since season 8, probably 4th or 5th or so since Dabb took over, of "Sam doesn't listen to Dean, who is right - as usual - and so bad things happen." If things are going the way it appears, Jack will go bad, and we'll have another "Dean was right" to add to the list. In my opinion, that was fairly insulting. It seemed to be saying that without Dean to guide him and "show him the way," that Sam was nothing but an unfeeling jerk while Dean was still the hero "saving people, hunting things."