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Umbelina

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  1. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Holy crap to that first video. Odd, that even as a child I overheard stories about young female stars, but I don't remember anything about young boys and show biz, honestly until Michael. I think Judy Garland was one, by LB Mayer I think, and some of the "munchkins" in WoO as well. My mom and dad knew a lot of Hollywood people, so anything I heard was by eavesdropping on the grownups.
  2. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

  3. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    If you google his name, Prince Michael, and vitiligo a few photos come up. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/michael-jacksons-son-suffer-loss-pigment/story?id=11064783
  4. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    When both families met MJ, both mother and father were working parents. I can't link to that, but read it or maybe it was even in the documentary, neither mother was a stay at home mom at that time. Just FYI. The Australian dad did try to stop them from returning to the USA, was obviously a mess, he's the one who took his own life, right? Sorry, I still get the moms and dads confused.
  5. Umbelina

    The Americans in the Media

    I'm so glad you linked that. NOT so much about The Americans though I liked Alison Wright's take there, but because LOST (a show I gave up on in frustration before the end) was listed, and down the google rabbit hole I went, eventually ending up here: OMG, I wish I had found this ages ago. LOST explained clearly.
  6. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Italics and underline mine. That certainly did happen, maybe deserved in many ways obviously, but still... It still bothers me that the mothers (probably because they were around to be filmed though) got the lions' share of the blame, with the fathers barely even mentioned in that context.
  7. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Who came forward recently?
  8. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    It really comes down to one thing. What adult man sleeps with little boys every single night? Not one person from his "estate" disputes that fact. He's slept with hundreds of little boys since he moved out of his mother's house. It's ridiculous and frankly scary that so many of his "fans" are twisting themselves into knots to defend him. I get the "family" doing that, they are still sucking on MJ's money, included in the will or not, there is money to be made there, simply by using the *unblemished* name. As for Paris? It's very sad, but she's been trying to commit suicide and to become famous for years. If "the family" really cares about WHY she's doing that, then help her. Don't blame it on a documentary that just came out. That girl has had problems from the beginning, perhaps start with her mother selling her (or at the very least, abandoning her to the tender mercies of MJ) and her biological father spouting off about being her sperm donor, but as far as he's said, never even contacting her. Think about being raised with disguises or blankets over her head, or huge screaming crowds (thanks MJ and fans, I'm sure that was just wonderful for a tiny child.) No, I don't believe anyone hands over 20 million dollars if they are innocent, and there is a preponderance of evidence that MJ probably handed over even more hush money to other boys' families. He also bought many parents expensive and extravagant gifts WHILE their child was 'sleeping' with MJ. Cars, houses, jewelry, trips all over the world, and cash. Come on now.
  9. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    So from the Vanity Fair article, a lot of people say they saw things, but they tried for money so were discredited, or were about to be fired (maybe because MJ knew they saw something is not clarified.) I watched a YouTube with one maid who saw things and was fired for "stealing." She said she was emptying trash and took some drawings MJ had made but then thrown away, so she didn't think that was "stealing" since they were in the trash. Jermaine's comment was interesting though, and no, I absolutely don't believe La Toya was forced into her comments about MJ by her husband. Although she is an obvious liar since her story continually changed, the way those words came out and her entire demeanor when she outed MJ seemed very real to me, spontaneous in parts, not rehearsed. I think it's much more likely "the family" paid her off to recount.
  10. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8299370/michael-jackson-oral-sex-jacuzzi-jordan-chandler/ Wait. There WAS a witness to MJ having sex with Jordan Chandler? I didn't know that, but no wonder MJ paid out the 20 million to Chandler if so. Was this ever recanted? I know absolutely nothing about this guy. Ralph Chacon, former employee. Reading this one now about witnesses, found when I googled his name. https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/03/michael-jackson-leaving-neverland-allegations-staff-friends-family
  11. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Glanced at a thread on Facebook. I didn't see one person there who wasn't defending MJ, and calling this documentary BS, and James and Wade liars, opportunists, and more.
  12. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    When I was barely an adult, I was reading everything by the Marquis de Sade. I tend to go on tangents, so I'll read everything about, for example, cold war spying, or art restoration, or every single book an author I like wrote, etc. It's probably why I've been reading so many articles and watching videos about MJ this week. I remember his feelings about sex with children, kind of vaguely really, but a few things still resonate. He felt, or said he felt, that adult problems with sex or sexuality stemmed from repressing and restricting natural sexual urges of children. In one tale, he raises his daughter from infant-hood to enjoy sex and feel no guilt. He restricted all access to her by others who could taint her "natural self" and focused specifically on encouraging and normalizing all sexual expressions from her, the goal being to raise her without the shame and secrecy of the time. It was an odd read, but at times, he was very convincing, and in spite of my disgust, I stayed with him, to see if he could make his case, which, obviously, didn't just talk about that girl, but also organized religion's detrimental effects on society and social conditioning. I think that popped into my mind today, and made me consider something. We know there are websites out there encouraging and trying to normalize adults having sex with children. I'm pretty sure they found evidence that MJ knew of, read some of those sites. So, go to his disastrous Bashir interview. I think it may be possible that MJ honestly believed, or willingly deceived himself to believe that he "loved" these boys, that he was special enough (ala the Marquis) to "get" more than society was capable of understanding. Even if this is true though, and I think it may be, I'd bet there were moments of clarity when he did realize it was wrong...but maybe not. He preferred living in a magical world, and he was considered nearly a God by many. I don't think I'm saying this well at all, but what I'm trying to ask here is how possible is it that his denials about "not doing anything wrong" and proclamations about "pure love" did he actually believe? Because of the Bashir interview, I think it's very possible that, at least at times, he DID believe that, and disastrously attempted to convince others, while obviously pretty stoned.
  13. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    Not sure, but if you mean as a kid? I wouldn't put all that much into it, kids want to be firemen, ballerinas, astronauts, all kinds of things. Why do you ask?
  14. Umbelina

    Leaving Neverland

    He learned to lie early on, when Joe made him say he was 8 as the Jackson Five was hitting. (He was 11.) This long video talks a lot about him blowing it while making an "image." He was very upset that the endless lies and "magic" crap he tried to sell blew up into "whacko Jacko." This starts out as a big of a puff piece, but in spite of that has a few good points. Among the bad points is explaining away the boy children in his bed being "MJ recreating his childhood." while showing parts of his family objecting to that. Interesting that his family didn't protest that THIS documentary didn't show "both sides." Ahem. Anyway, almost over my obsession with this topic, I feel l got sucked into watching all the stuff I've avoided over the years because it was sickening by the HBO show.
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