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S01.E10: Six or Seven Minutes

As Max fights for his life, New Amsterdam is in full swing with a pertinent heart surgery that is not covered by insurance and a potential nurses walk out. As the team feels Max's absence and the doctors find out that they may have to treat one of their own, Sharpe must finally come clean about Max's condition.

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Everybody talks about making sure you have a box of tissues at the ready when you watch This Is Us but I bawled like a baby during this episode.  What a great show!

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I got the impression that TPTB realized that people weren't loving Georgia and, since her relationship with Max is supposed to be the central love story of the series, they created an episode of flashbacks of their relationship to try to sell  her to us.  For me, it didn't work; I just don't think the actress is believable as the love of Max' life; her less than stellar performance is the weak link and I don't think it can be fixed.  If anything, I like the relationship less than I did before I saw a bunch of scenes of their courtship. When I find myself fixated on the very bad wig/hair extensions that the actress is wearing (what WAS that?) rather than the dialog it is not a good sign.

As for the medical part, you got me, everyone gets to decide for themselves what was going on with Max there, that seemed to be what the writers were doing.  First we hear that Max' tumor has grown so large, it is threatening his airway?  Huh!  And it happened instantaneously?  Max never noticed he was having trouble swallowing or making funny noises when he breathed?  His so-called oncologist wasn't monitoring him and  the tumor for growth with serial exams and CT's or MRI's?  They didn't perform a tracheostomy to prevent any future airway compromise?  I have no idea what the bandaid on his neck was supposed to be, it looked like he cut himself shaving except he doesn't shave.  I guess someone did an emergency cricothyrotomy to preserve his airway, but that would've been converted to a permanent trach. I get why that isn't practical for the lead hunk on a TV series, they should've given the character some other kind of cancer. He also would have been rushed into radiation therapy since that is the quickest way to shrink a tumor that was threatening his life.  At least they walked back all the experimental therapy baloney which made Max look like an idiot.  I presume the whole reason for that idiocy was to introduce a potential love interest for the oncologist.  Maybe he could've been a radiation oncologist instead?

Later in the episode they switched gears and claimed Max had paraneoplastic syndrome which is caused by the body's immune system responding to the tumor and to hormones or other substances being secreted by it.  However, what we saw onscreen was nothing like actual paraneoplastic syndrome which is often the first symptom of a cancer that has yet to be diagnosed.  Things like random fevers or elevated calcium levels in the blood, weird rashes or persistent itching are the usual sorts of things you see.  Fainting spells and airway obstruction are not.

Then, when Max was out of commission, we have the acting hospital chief, Ron Rifkin (it's kind of a bad sign that I only know the names of 3 characters on the show: Max, Kapoor and Georgia), asks for things like the surgical schedule and staffing?  Why?  Perhaps that stuff ends up on the CEO's desk every day but he isn't going to be doing any major management of it on a day to day basis.  This show has no idea what real hospital chiefs do and it shows.

The ER doc seems to be coming to terms with her substance abuse.  However, the minute she confessed to her colleague that she was abusing Adderall, that doctor had an OBLIGATION to tell her she had to immediately stop seeing patients or that she would report her to the hospital administration and the state medical board.  If she didn't feel she was capable of working on Max due to her drug use, then she is not capable of working on anyone.  A physician who knowingly conceals the substance abuse of another doc is subject to suspension of her license and her contract with the hospital probably contains a termination clause specifying immediate dismissal as the consequence.  Mine does.

Finally, we have the cardiac surgeon, known for being conservative and not doing as much surgery as others in his field, insisting his patient needs an ICD (internal cardiac defibrillator) but the insurance company won't approve.  First, the lady is old enough for Medicare and they approve that sort of stuff all the time.  Then, if an insurance company declines to pay, the decision can be appealed and other board certified cardiac surgeons will be asked to review the chart and give their opinion.  Presuming that happened, apparently Doctor Do Less Surgery has suddenly switched sides and now more surgically aggressive than his colleagues.  Finally, if the procedure was refused and he felt it was absolutely necessary, he works at a public hospital, they provide subsidized care all the time and have an entire department set up to assess the situation.  Randomly choosing patients himself to provide free care makes no sense at all.  For all he knows, that particular old lady had a huge trust fund and could have paid out of pocket and the hospital's care been given free to someone else.  I once had an elderly patient who always asked for free samples of a medication she was taking, she would call the office and send her son to pick it up.  Finally, one day, her son called to speak to me.  His mother had several hundred thousands in savings, but she was cheap, and he felt bad that there were probably other people who needed the samples more.  He asked us to tell her we didn't have samples next time she called, so we did.

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All through this episode I kept thinking that, if Georgia's pregnancy was so fragile, she was ordered bed rest and no stress, why wasn't she being monitored by her doctor while she waiting to find out whether her husband would live? I guess I'm just a continuity freak.

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I caught the first twenty minutes of this episode to see if maybe I was missing out after not being able to finish the first two episodes. And it turns out that I still can't finish an episode. My biggest issue here is that we all know Max isn't going to die. Ryan Eggold is the selling point of this show. If he dies at the end of this season, who'll tune in to season 2? So, for me, there was no tension, and there will be no tension. Max will pull through and go into remission and everything will be just fine. 

Plus, yeah, I didn't care about Georgia in the first couple of episodes that they showed her and I definitely still don't care about her romance with Max now. 

I don't know; I guess I don't get the appeal of this show and why it's the most successful freshman show on the Big Five networks. 

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2 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

All through this episode I kept thinking that, if Georgia's pregnancy was so fragile, she was ordered bed rest and no stress, why wasn't she being monitored by her doctor while she waiting to find out whether her husband would live? I guess I'm just a continuity freak.

You probably missed the scene in a previous episode where her wandering placenta had magically moved away from her cervix and now everything is just fabulous.  The medicine in this show is notable for how really, really bad it is.

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I caught the first twenty minutes of this episode to see if maybe I was missing out after not being able to finish the first two episodes. And it turns out that I still can't finish an episode. My biggest issue here is that we all know Max isn't going to die. Ryan Eggold is the selling point of this show. If he dies at the end of this season, who'll tune in to season 2? So, for me, there was no tension, and there will be no tension. Max will pull through and go into remission and everything will be just fine

Maybe they're doing Hurt-Comfort Fanfic?  That seems to be the level at which this show is operating.  I know it is based on a true story and the real-life doctor did have throat cancer which was treated just as he started the job, but the writing of this storyline bears no resemblance to real life.  I also doubt that the real doc's wife was pregnant or that his marriage was on the rocks; so, if they were going to embellish the story anyway, they should've dropped the cancer thing completely.

Edited by doodlebug.
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4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I got the impression that TPTB realized that people weren't loving Georgia and, since her relationship with Max is supposed to be the central love story of the series, they created an episode of flashbacks of their relationship to try to sell  her to us.  For me, it didn't work; I just don't think the actress is believable as the love of Max' life; her less than stellar performance is the weak link and I don't think it can be fixed.  If anything, I like the relationship less than I did before I saw a bunch of scenes of their courtship. When I find myself fixated on the very bad wig/hair extensions that the actress is wearing (what WAS that?) rather than the dialog it is not a good sign.

As for the medical part, you got me, everyone gets to decide for themselves what was going on with Max there, that seemed to be what the writers were doing.  First we hear that Max' tumor has grown so large, it is threatening his airway?  Huh!  And it happened instantaneously?  Max never noticed he was having trouble swallowing or making funny noises when he breathed?  His so-called oncologist wasn't monitoring him and  the tumor for growth with serial exams and CT's or MRI's?  They didn't perform a tracheostomy to prevent any future airway compromise?  I have no idea what the bandaid on his neck was supposed to be, it looked like he cut himself shaving except he doesn't shave.  I guess someone did an emergency cricothyrotomy to preserve his airway, but that would've been converted to a permanent trach. I get why that isn't practical for the lead hunk on a TV series, they should've given the character some other kind of cancer. He also would have been rushed into radiation therapy since that is the quickest way to shrink a tumor that was threatening his life.  At least they walked back all the experimental therapy baloney which made Max look like an idiot.  I presume the whole reason for that idiocy was to introduce a potential love interest for the oncologist.  Maybe he could've been a radiation oncologist instead?

Later in the episode they switched gears and claimed Max had paraneoplastic syndrome which is caused by the body's immune system responding to the tumor and to hormones or other substances being secreted by it.  However, what we saw onscreen was nothing like actual paraneoplastic syndrome which is often the first symptom of a cancer that has yet to be diagnosed.  Things like random fevers or elevated calcium levels in the blood, weird rashes or persistent itching are the usual sorts of things you see.  Fainting spells and airway obstruction are not.

Then, when Max was out of commission, we have the acting hospital chief, Ron Rifkin (it's kind of a bad sign that I only know the names of 3 characters on the show: Max, Kapoor and Georgia), asks for things like the surgical schedule and staffing?  Why?  Perhaps that stuff ends up on the CEO's desk every day but he isn't going to be doing any major management of it on a day to day basis.  This show has no idea what real hospital chiefs do and it shows.

The ER doc seems to be coming to terms with her substance abuse.  However, the minute she confessed to her colleague that she was abusing Adderall, that doctor had an OBLIGATION to tell her she had to immediately stop seeing patients or that she would report her to the hospital administration and the state medical board.  If she didn't feel she was capable of working on Max due to her drug use, then she is not capable of working on anyone.  A physician who knowingly conceals the substance abuse of another doc is subject to suspension of her license and her contract with the hospital probably contains a termination clause specifying immediate dismissal as the consequence.  Mine does.

Finally, we have the cardiac surgeon, known for being conservative and not doing as much surgery as others in his field, insisting his patient needs an ICD (internal cardiac defibrillator) but the insurance company won't approve.  First, the lady is old enough for Medicare and they approve that sort of stuff all the time.  Then, if an insurance company declines to pay, the decision can be appealed and other board certified cardiac surgeons will be asked to review the chart and give their opinion.  Presuming that happened, apparently Doctor Do Less Surgery has suddenly switched sides and now more surgically aggressive than his colleagues.  Finally, if the procedure was refused and he felt it was absolutely necessary, he works at a public hospital, they provide subsidized care all the time and have an entire department set up to assess the situation.  Randomly choosing patients himself to provide free care makes no sense at all.  For all he knows, that particular old lady had a huge trust fund and could have paid out of pocket and the hospital's care been given free to someone else.  I once had an elderly patient who always asked for free samples of a medication she was taking, she would call the office and send her son to pick it up.  Finally, one day, her son called to speak to me.  His mother had several hundred thousands in savings, but she was cheap, and he felt bad that there were probably other people who needed the samples more.  He asked us to tell her we didn't have samples next time she called, so we did.

I vote we start an online campaign for this show to hire Doodlebug as the medical advisor. All the nonsense you pointed out takes me totally out of the moment and makes the show hard to watch and just kind of really bad and not in the it’s  so bad it’s good like Chicago Med. And this is coming from someone who watches every medical show no matter how good or bad (ER, Greys, Code Black, Night Shift, Good Doctor, Chicago Med) which is why I can’t seem to quit this dumb show. 

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I felt nothing watching this episode. Knowing that Max isn't going to die takes all the wind out of that story line's sails. As I have zero medical knowledge or training, I can't tell when things are wrong (other than truly blatant bloopers), but I assume that they're not being portrayed accurately and take them with a huge grain of salt. Which doesn't exactly make for a compelling viewing experience! 

I have no interest any more in Dr. Kapoor. I did initially, but now there's no meat left on the bone. We know he's basically made amends with his son, which is good, but that's the end of that. He claims not to have romantic intentions towards the coffee lady and I do truly believe she has a sick dog and can't afford its care and isn't fleecing him - but either way, he gave her the money in good faith, so that's the end of that. They haven't indicated that she's going to try to extract more money from him, so as far as I'm concerned, that story line is also over. Sure, he has the occasional patient interaction, but even that's somewhat minimal (I've never seen doctors with so much free time while on duty - always sitting around talking or contemplating). 

The Adderall-addicted doctor: I've disliked her since the show began. She grates on my nerves. I do NOT want her to have a relationship with the cardio doctor (Floyd?). At least her story line is ongoing - she doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot to help herself yet, which keeps her situation unresolved. 

I have also disliked Max's wife from the get-go. There is NO connection between them, and forgive me, but I find her incredibly unattractive (I know, I know - wrong on every level, but...). I was hoping hard she'd somehow die at some point but she's still here. The flashbacks did nothing to endear her to me. If anything, they only reinforced that Max was totally wasting his time and energy with his grand gestures of love and such. You know what, Max? Focus on doing what you do best, which is being a doctor and helping others. Find someone who is as passionate about that as you are and perhaps that'll work out better!

I do like Iggy. He means well, and does seem to be earnest in his endeavors. I'd hang out with him.

I do like the cardio guy Floyd, for the most part. I laughed when they showed him sitting at his desk and in the glass-fronted cabinet behind him, you could see a copy of Gray's Anatomy. 

I even like the oncologist, for the most part. One thing that bugged me, though, was her scene with "Arvin Sloane" (Ron Rifkin - but he'll always be Sloane from 'Alias' to me). The two of them represented, in that scene, the two farthest ends of the spectrum: she only caring about Max and he seemingly only concerned with money. Without knowing anything about how a hospital is run, I'd warrant a guess that the reality is somewhere in the middle. It takes A LOT of money to provide the services they provide - that cannot be ignored. I think "Sloane" was right to have great concern for all the financial details, although OBVIOUSLY he could have shown the appropriate sensitivity to the immediate situation (even if he wasn't sincere about it, for morale's sake, you have to at least make it sound like you are concerned and worried for Max, and that you want the best for him). Yes, a succession plan is prudent but that wasn't the right time to talk about it. And she needed to at least acknowledge that a big part of Max's job is financially-driven and if he's incapacitated - which he certainly was - then it's not unreasonable for someone else to have to step in and deal with that crap. It's not so black and white, yet that scene made it sound as if "Sloane" considered Max just about dead, and Dr. Oncologist wanted the entire facility to stop doing anything but care for Max, even at the possible expense of other patients. Neither is realistic. But then again, this show has demonstrated that reality is not its strong suit!

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29 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

And she needed to at least acknowledge that a big part of Max's job is financially-driven and if he's incapacitated - which he certainly was - then it's not unreasonable for someone else to have to step in and deal with that crap.

Especially since in the pilot, all she did was run around the country publicizing the hospital and fundraising, until Max threatened to fire her if she didn't stay at the hospital and practice medicine. She certainly knows the financial realities of running New Amsterdam.

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1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

I have also disliked Max's wife from the get-go. There is NO connection between them, and forgive me, but I find her incredibly unattractive (I know, I know - wrong on every level, but...). I was hoping hard she'd somehow die at some point but she's still here. The flashbacks did nothing to endear her to me. If anything, they only reinforced that Max was totally wasting his time and energy with his grand gestures of love and such. You know what, Max? Focus on doing what you do best, which is being a doctor and helping others. Find someone who is as passionate about that as you are and perhaps that'll work out better!

 

If anything, the scenes with Max courting Georgia turned me off the relationship even more.  All we saw was Max saying wonderful things to her and creating big gestures for her; meanwhile, she just stands there and passively watches him turn himself inside out with a self satisfied smirk on her face.  That is kind of the main problem with the relationship for me in the first place, it seems like it is all on him to keep her happy and the marriage itself rests on his catering to her and what she wants.  The only time I felt a little bit on her side was when he obviously interviewed for the job at New Amsterdam and was offered it.  Since she saw the package containing the contracts, he hadn't signed yet; and certainly he should be telling her about his career ambitions and plans; but we never got an explanation of why he didn't tell her.  The only reason I can think of is that he married a woman who knew he was a physician devoted to his work who worked long hours and, despite knowing this from the start (he was paged away from the proposal for goodness' sakes!), she had decided that she wanted him to change and be someone else for her.  And, since he knew she would pitch a fit if he actually tried to get a job in the hospital industry, despite the fact that it was his career; he decided not to let her know. Not the way to get sympathy from the audience.  Yes, if he neglects or ignores her, she has a right to speak up; but it appears she resented his job and the hours he devoted to it; in which case, she should never have married him.  I cannot picture her being nearly as rational with him had he told her to quit dancing.

Same thing when she graciously granted her permission for him to continue to work while being treated.  Aside from the fact that this is something that should've been discussed privately between the two of them; it was ultimately not her decision to make unilaterally.  It, once again, smacked of the entire marriage depending on her goodwill instead of it being a true partnership.

The show does a really bad job of depicting the crisis in medicine between cost and services provided.  It is true that this is the main issue in American medicine but it is not black and white and most administrators and practitioners see both sides.  It shouldn't be an 'us' vs 'them' proposition.  Considering that Max had had a respiratory arrest lasting 6 or 7 minutes and was in the ICU unconscious, it was perfectly reasonable for Ron Rifkin's character to make sure the hospital administration was running smoothly in his absence.  They didn't know if he would ever wake up and, if he did, if he would be able to return to work anytime soon.  Based on the information that had been withheld from Rifkin and he had just discovered; expecting that it could be weeks or months before Max would be able to return to work, if ever, was perfectly reasonable.  Of course, real hospitals have bylaws which spell out a chain of command for just this sort of emergency because hospitals have to run 24/7 whether the CEO is there or not; so the entire argument would not have happened because everyone would've known who was in charge in Max' absence.

Edited by doodlebug.
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Is there a thread somewhere for discussion of the comparative (in)accuracy of the medical aspects of various medical dramas?  I would like to find a show that at least tries to get it right.

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8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

As for the medical part, you got me, everyone gets to decide for themselves what was going on with Max there, that seemed to be what the writers were doing.  First we hear that Max' tumor has grown so large, it is threatening his airway?  Huh!  And it happened instantaneously?  Max never noticed he was having trouble swallowing or making funny noises when he breathed?  His so-called oncologist wasn't monitoring him and  the tumor for growth with serial exams and CT's or MRI's?  They didn't perform a tracheostomy to prevent any future airway compromise? 

I only made it ten minutes into this episode for this exact reason. First, if he was making "raspy noises" then he had to moving some air through his airway. The oncologist should have told her to do a jaw thrust. If that didn't work, then next try mouth-to-mouth. Having his wife perform her own tracheostomy through his cancer-obstructed throat with just a pen knife and a flimsy drinking straw, then do stoma-to-mouth resuscitation was too ridiculous for words. I'm betting it didn't go on to accurately represent how a patient actually recovers from an anoxic brain injury (since it was obvious they were going to find a way for him to recover quickly and completely).

 

I ordinarily avoid medical shows like the plague because I can't stand the inaccuracies. I made an exception for this one because it was based on a true story. I thought we might actually get something realistic. I was totally wrong, and I think I gave it a fair chance. Thus far, they have botched every resuscitation, yet the patient always lives, they have totally  misrepresented organ donation procedures twice, made a mockery of how cancer is treated, I could go on and on and on and on and on.

 

I'm done. I do hope someone can get some entertainment out of this, but please remember it is all Hollywood fiction and not how real medical care is properly delivered. Over and out.

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It made it sound like she opened the fedex package clearly addressed to him.  That in my book is a deal breaker.  I don't mind that she isn't a great beauty (we need more realism in television) but she's a bad actress.  And with that haircut and her demeanor she comes across like a scared and fragile housewife, not a world traveled ballerina.  

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When the show has to work this hard - and in such an obvious manner - to try to sell this "love story" to us, then there's a real problem. Like many of you, I've never liked Georgia, and this episode just solidified that feeling for me. All I saw was that a certain trend has carried through from the beginning of the relationship up to present day: he's smitten (for some inexplicable reason), while she smugly sits back, watching as he jumps through hoops to try to prove his devotion to her. He's evidently always been upfront about how passionately devoted he is to medicine and helping people, but it seems like she's never been particularly pleased about that - likely because she wants to be his only priority - and it has always been something of a bone of contention between them. It should've been a giant red flag for him that he felt the need to not even tell her that he'd applied for the Medical Director position, while a second  - huge - red flag (as also mentioned by judyri) was that she opened the FedEx package that was addressed to him. 

That whole relationship seems unequal and forced, and imo, it's not necessary and it drags the show down. I think the same holds true for Georgia, because the character isn't interesting or sympathetic, and the actress simply does not have the necessary chops or chemistry with Eggold. I truly don't understand why she was cast in this role.

(For what it's worth, I continue to see much more of a connection between Max and Helen, given how obviously upset the latter was throughout the episode and her noticeable relief and happiness when he woke up, and the little smile he gave her when he first noticed her standing there.)

As for the medicine (well, "medicine") in the episode, I'm not a medical professional, but even I could tell how off the mark it was. This is another thing I don't understand: why a show based almost entirely on medicine is so very, very bad at it. Surely there are medical advisors on the payroll who can tell them how wrong all of it is. I just . . . don't get it. This show is also really doing its level best to waste the talent and charisma of several of its actors by bogging them down in dreck, and I will never understand that, either.

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The only thing I remember of this episode was me saying "Are you serious right now?"  after Georgia berated Max for getting a better job instead of, what, quitting to put her and baby first.  The messaging in that scene rubbed me wrong. 

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1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

The only thing I remember of this episode was me saying "Are you serious right now?"  after Georgia berated Max for getting a better job instead of, what, quitting to put her and baby first.  The messaging in that scene rubbed me wrong. 

Yes, I'm not sure what the point was there.  Presumably, as a professional dancer, her pregnancy and recovery are going to limit her ability to work for a while.  Max had worked as Medical Director before (as I recall, he'd been fired from that position someplace else before getting hired at New Amsterdam).  What exactly did Georgia have in mind?  If he's a hospital administrator, then that's what he is.  Unless he goes back to school and trains for something else, then that is the sort of job he is going to have whether she likes it or not.  Even if he is an MD, it doesn't appear on the show that he actually practices (running through the hospital telling specialists how to treat their patients doesn't count), he would probably have a tough time getting a position just practicing medicine.

 

3 hours ago, Driad said:

Is there a thread somewhere for discussion of the comparative (in)accuracy of the medical aspects of various medical dramas?  I would like to find a show that at least tries to get it right.

I don't think so.  ER, the early seasons was fairly close on the medicine although there was a lot of dramatic license in that all of the ER docs were experts in every other specialty and did a lot of procedures in the ER that most ER physicians would not only never do, but had probably never seen.  Then again, ask a lawyer about legal shows or a cop about crime shows.  TV doesn't really portray most professions accurately.

2 hours ago, weathered1 said:

As for the medicine (well, "medicine") in the episode, I'm not a medical professional, but even I could tell how off the mark it was. This is another thing I don't understand: why a show based almost entirely on medicine is so very, very bad at it. Surely there are medical advisors on the payroll who can tell them how wrong all of it is. I just . . . don't get it. This show is also really doing its level best to waste the talent and charisma of several of its actors by bogging them down in dreck, and I will never understand that, either.

Medical consultants on other shows have said that their role is usually not to portray the medicine accurately; but more to provide terminology for the writers, pronunciations for the actors, to make sure the X rays are hung correctly on the set, that the actors hold a scalpel properly.  I don't think the show is worried about portraying the situation accurately; it's kind of unfortunate that this show decided to use the real life doctor's actual cancer because it really is not very glamorous or photogenic.  Not that other cancers are, but this one in particular is going to be hard to portray accurately, especially in the treatment stages, it is not pretty.

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Ah, an emergency trach, the Freebird of a medical drama.

1 hour ago, weathered1 said:

This is another thing I don't understand: why a show based almost entirely on medicine is so very, very bad at it. Surely there are medical advisors on the payroll who can tell them how wrong all of it is. I just . . . don't get it.

I honestly don't know if I think this show is so much worse than a lot of the others.  Nothing is as bad as The Night Shift, but that show was also entertaining as hell, so...

That said, a lot of my co-workers watch, and more than a few of us have commented on the fact that the psych ward actually looks like a psych ward.  Someone pointed out "hey, they have the same crappy beds we do."

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2 minutes ago, starri said:

Ah, an emergency trach, the Freebird of a medical drama.

I honestly don't know if I think this show is so much worse than a lot of the others.  Nothing is as bad as The Night Shift, but that show was also entertaining as hell, so...

That said, a lot of my co-workers watch, and more than a few of us have commented on the fact that the psych ward actually looks like a psych ward.  Someone pointed out "hey, they have the same crappy beds we do."

My DVR missed the first few minutes of the show because of the earlier political BS, so I missed the crike done by the wife.  Thank God for small favors.

Most medical dramas are not very medically accurate if only because, like virtually every other profession out there, much of what doctors do is routine, repetitive and not very interesting to watch.  There were complications that Max could have suffered that would've made more sense than what actually happened, but I don't think the producers of these series care about accuracy, they want 'drama'.  So, even though it would be extremely unlikely for Max to go from breathing just find to life threatening airway obstruction in a matter of a few seconds; they did it anyway so they could have his wife performing a crike on him and have the dramatic rescue and ensuing concerns about hypoxia.  Then, because that wasn't enough, they somehow decided he also had paraneoplastic syndrome, probably because they liked the sound of it.

Edited by doodlebug.
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2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

My DVR missed the first few minutes of the show because of the earlier political BS, so I missed the crike done by the wife.  Thank God for small favors.

9-1-1 did it better.  

I will say that Freema Agyeman's half of the scene worked much better than it should have.

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10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't know; I guess I don't get the appeal of this show and why it's the most successful freshman show on the Big Five networks. 

I find Max's wife's hair distracting (silly of me, but it's true) but I really enjoy the scenes with Kapoor and Iggy, singly or together.  They are the best part of this show. 

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I cannot stand the wife and only slightly less so Ms. Adderall 

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3 hours ago, weathered1 said:

As for the medicine (well, "medicine") in the episode, I'm not a medical professional, but even I could tell how off the mark it was. This is another thing I don't understand: why a show based almost entirely on medicine is so very, very bad at it. Surely there are medical advisors on the payroll who can tell them how wrong all of it is. I just . . . don't get it. 

I once asked the producer of All My Children who her medical consultants were. Her answer was, "We have excellent medical consultants. We just don't listen to everything they say."

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10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I know it is based on a true story and the real-life doctor did have throat cancer which was treated just as he started the job, but the writing of this storyline bears no resemblance to real life. 

This is the first time I've been on this board and I am flabbergasted that it is based on a true story! Can't imagine what part is true. When in his first meeting with them, he summarily discharged the entire surgical staff? When it never occurred to him that that would cause an immediate crisis? Etcetera!

I have stuck with this show because I really like most of the characters and their interactions, and not because of the questionable medical goings-on. I just don't expect it to be too accurate.

What I have found hard to swallow are some of the causes the writers seem to champion. Tonight's was contraceptive distribution without prescription. Are they serious? Maybe I am far behind the times, but it is hard for me to believe that contraceptives have been paid by insurance without prescription since the 90's. Can this be true? With all the side effects of the pill and IUDs in particular, I find it hard to believe anyone would support that. That bothered me so much I could barely concentrate on the rest of the show.

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I am...so relieved. I was wondering if my cold, black heart had made me immune to the Greatest Love Montage between Georgia and Max, only to come here and find my people *sniff*. Loveyouguys.

The writers tried to throw a Hail Mary to convince us about that relationship and boy howdy, it was as bad as her flashback wig. I actually muted all the flashback scenes. Did all of them have title cards like "Good News Bad News"? Oy.

Another thing that irks me about the show is that Dr Adderall is played by someone who appears to be a good actress, but the character SUCKS. The thing that gets me about her is her sense of entitlement. How dare Floyd not want to be with her, she wants to be with him. How dare anyone question her competence when they know she's on Adderall? Big mistake with the Poor Little Rich Girl "reveal" (not this ep), too. Way to make me feel empathy, show.

I'm kind of baffled that this show has been such a success, given the mess it is on so many levels. And where do they go from here? Everybody's gonna go all kumbaya and work together, with Eggold in a bald cap supervising from a chemo chair?

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2 hours ago, renatae said:

What I have found hard to swallow are some of the causes the writers seem to champion. Tonight's was contraceptive distribution without prescription. Are they serious? Maybe I am far behind the times, but it is hard for me to believe that contraceptives have been paid by insurance without prescription since the 90's. Can this be true? With all the side effects of the pill and IUDs in particular, I find it hard to believe anyone would support that. That bothered me so much I could barely concentrate on the rest of the show.

The contraceptive they were talking about was Plan B, the ‘morning after’ pill which has been available over the counter since the 90’s.  They mentioned it really quickly and it was easy to miss.  However, most insurances don’t pay for over the counter meds so it was kind of strange to hear that theirs ever did.  Also, the number of women who need or use the morning after pill is very small, so it is hard to believe that the nursing staff was willing to walk out over that issue.  If the point was that the change in policy was specifically unfair to women, does that mean their insurance also covers condoms?  Because, if the rule was unfair to women, then it must be that there are over the counter options for men that weren’t taken away.  If not, why weren’t they also campaigning for coverage for condoms too?  After all, they not only prevent pregnancy but infections too.  One more thing this show gets wrong.

The Affordable Care Act, AKA Obamacare, guarantees full coverage for at least some contraceptive methods (there are 18 recognized methods) for all women.  The morning after pill could be one of the offered methods, but doesn’t have to be if other methods are covered. There are some businesses that are exempt from the contraceptive mandate, but a public hospital wouldn’t be.

Edited by doodlebug.
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20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

Then, when Max was out of commission, we have the acting hospital chief, Ron Rifkin (it's kind of a bad sign that I only know the names of 3 characters on the show: Max, Kapoor and Georgia), asks for things like the surgical schedule and staffing?  

Hey, you've got more names than me!  All I have is Kapoor (love him,).  Whenever someone mentions Max by name, I have to give myself a brain nudge to remember that they're talking about sad sack Eeyore.

Edited by Brookside.
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2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The contraceptive they were talking about was Plan B, the ‘morning after’ pill which has been available over the counter since the 90’s.

Thank you! I surely did miss that, and I actually was aware it's been available OTC since the 90's, dinosaur that I am. IMO, it's not a good idea, either.

I also realized after I posted that I'm not firing on all cylinders, as I mentioned IUDs in my post. That would make a strange OTC offering, lol. Better show myself out and put myself to bed.

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Through flashbacks we learn that Max's wife didn't always have such an unflattering haircut.

 

I like the male nurse.  AKA hotter, younger Jerry. 

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Then, when Max was out of commission, we have the acting hospital chief, Ron Rifkin (it's kind of a bad sign that I only know the names of 3 characters on the show: Max, Kapoor and Georgia), asks for things like the surgical schedule and staffing?  

I'm similarly bad with the names.  I had no idea why Max's secretary or the psych guy (or really any of them except the ER lady) was meeting the trauma helicopter.  It felt like a very clumsy way for cancer doctor to reveal Max's illness to everyone, particularly when the cancer doctor revealed that the actual trauma team would also be coming to meet the helicopter to handle Max's care.

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21 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I felt nothing watching this episode

The only thing I felt was nausea watching the flashbacks and the very bad acted, over dramatic fight when Georgia left Max - all with soft-slamming the door.

Then a little more nausea when the other doctors all got together to say that they would be Max's minions and do everything he does, breaking all the rules, all with the blessing of the dean.

Only good thing is Sharpe's and the cancer specialist/trial doctor hotness - not really together, just general hotness.

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21 hours ago, doodlebug said:

If anything, the scenes with Max courting Georgia turned me off the relationship even more.  All we saw was Max saying wonderful things to her and creating big gestures for her; meanwhile, she just stands there and passively watches him turn himself inside out with a self satisfied smirk on her face.  That is kind of the main problem with the relationship for me in the first place, it seems like it is all on him to keep her happy and the marriage itself rests on his catering to her and what she wants.  The only time I felt a little bit on her side was when he obviously interviewed for the job at New Amsterdam and was offered it.  Since she saw the package containing the contracts, he hadn't signed yet; and certainly he should be telling her about his career ambitions and plans; but we never got an explanation of why he didn't tell her.  The only reason I can think of is that he married a woman who knew he was a physician devoted to his work who worked long hours and, despite knowing this from the start (he was paged away from the proposal for goodness' sakes!), she had decided that she wanted him to change and be someone else for her.  And, since he knew she would pitch a fit if he actually tried to get a job in the hospital industry, despite the fact that it was his career; he decided not to let her know. Not the way to get sympathy from the audience.  Yes, if he neglects or ignores her, she has a right to speak up; but it appears she resented his job and the hours he devoted to it; in which case, she should never have married him.  I cannot picture her being nearly as rational with him had he told her to quit dancing.

Same thing when she graciously granted her permission for him to continue to work while being treated.  Aside from the fact that this is something that should've been discussed privately between the two of them; it was ultimately not her decision to make unilaterally.  It, once again, smacked of the entire marriage depending on her goodwill instead of it being a true partnership.

 

Thank you. I have disliked the Georgia character from the beginning without being able to quite determine why. You have hit the nail on the head for me. And like other commenters from this episode (glad to see it wasn't just me), this episode didn't help at all. In fact, I dislike her even more now. As much as I like Max, he can be a little "extra" at times, but thanks to the flashbacks, there's nothing to suggest that he's any different now than he was when he met Georgia. So his absolute devotion to his career was known to this Princess before she even married him. Which means that, yep, she was expecting him to change for her. And that always works out well, doesn't it? 

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5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm similarly bad with the names.  I had no idea why Max's secretary or the psych guy (or really any of them except the ER lady) was meeting the trauma helicopter.  It felt like a very clumsy way for cancer doctor to reveal Max's illness to everyone, particularly when the cancer doctor revealed that the actual trauma team would also be coming to meet the helicopter to handle Max's care.

It made absolutely no sense whatsoever.  The oncologist knew he had an airway obstruction; why in heaven's name would she ask a psychiatrist and neurologist to come up to the roof and meet the helicopter?  For that matter, where was the head and neck specialist who was really needed to perform an emergency trach because of Max' unstable airway?  All those other people were just in the way.

5 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

Through flashbacks we learn that Max's wife didn't always have such an unflattering haircut.

 

I like the male nurse.  AKA hotter, younger Jerry. 

No, but she wore a dead badger on her head.  That was one terrible hairpiece.

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Glad to see  I am not the only person who likes the wife less....I wonder how the larger viewing audience is taking this romance and if this show is renewed if the show runners are looking at the feedback? 

I am also not interested in a relationship between the oncologist and that guy that was on the terrible Piper Perabo show that I cannot remember the name of.....sad because it went off not too long ago....

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3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Glad to see  I am not the only person who likes the wife less....I wonder how the larger viewing audience is taking this romance and if this show is renewed if the show runners are looking at the feedback? 

I am also not interested in a relationship between the oncologist and that guy that was on the terrible Piper Perabo show that I cannot remember the name of.....sad because it went off not too long ago....

Covert Affairs!

That ended in like 2014

 

19 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm similarly bad with the names.  I had no idea why Max's secretary or the psych guy (or really any of them except the ER lady) was meeting the trauma helicopter.  It felt like a very clumsy way for cancer doctor to reveal Max's illness to everyone, particularly when the cancer doctor revealed that the actual trauma team would also be coming to meet the helicopter to handle Max's care.

Oncologist is his physician managing his condition. Hypoxia was suspected, so neurologist was present.

Maybe Psychiatrist was there for the wife???

 

And assistant was there because who the hell knows why.


Also, why did the guy who took over as hospital administrator expect the oncologist to spill her patient's medical history to him? He didn't have to tell anyone about his cancer, yes, he should've had a continuity plan in place (I am surprised the hospital didn't have a deputy medical director, but I guess they want to portray this guy as a villain?) but yeaaah

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15 hours ago, doodlebug said:

No, but she wore a dead badger on her head.  That was one terrible hairpiece.

They had to make those flashbacks fuzzy, VERY fuzzy.  

Tonight on Top Chef Padma wore a wig and it looked awful.  Horrible week for wigs on TV.

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7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Oncologist is his physician managing his condition. Hypoxia was suspected, so neurologist was present.

Maybe Psychiatrist was there for the wife???

Evaluating a patient for hypoxic encephalopathy is not an emergent situation and wouldn't be done on the helicopter pad.  Now, knowing that the patient has a crike performed by an amateur with a drinking straw and a penknife, it was far more likely that he would need an immediate assessment of his airway and possible emergent intervention which is why an ENT should've been right there.  Even the ER doc wouldn't want to mess with an amateur crike in a patient with a tumor obstructing his throat. 

As for the psychiatrist, once again, there was no evidence his wife was having a psychiatric emergency; she wasn't hysterical, she wasn't interfering with his care.

Just more bad medicine on a show that seems to take pride in it's lack of accuracy.

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For Iggy to imply to Kapoor that the coffee shop lady pulled a scam on him seemed really out of character. He acted as if he were jealous that Kapoor hadn’t given him the money.

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16 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Evaluating a patient for hypoxic encephalopathy is not an emergent situation and wouldn't be done on the helicopter pad.  Now, knowing that the patient has a crike performed by an amateur with a drinking straw and a penknife, it was far more likely that he would need an immediate assessment of his airway and possible emergent intervention which is why an ENT should've been right there.  Even the ER doc wouldn't want to mess with an amateur crike in a patient with a tumor obstructing his throat. 

As for the psychiatrist, once again, there was no evidence his wife was having a psychiatric emergency; she wasn't hysterical, she wasn't interfering with his care.

Just more bad medicine on a show that seems to take pride in it's lack of accuracy.

Oh yes, but I was just trying to come up with reasons for the writers to get them all in the same spot :P

At least House was accurate once in a blue moon... this show, nope

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Truthfully, I've thought the show that got the idea of what it's like to work in a hospital the best was Scrubs, of all things.

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On 1/11/2019 at 1:49 AM, bros402 said:

Covert Affairs!

That ended in like 2014

 

Oncologist is his physician managing his condition. Hypoxia was suspected, so neurologist was present.

Maybe Psychiatrist was there for the wife???

 

And assistant was there because who the hell knows why.


Also, why did the guy who took over as hospital administrator expect the oncologist to spill her patient's medical history to him? He didn't have to tell anyone about his cancer, yes, he should've had a continuity plan in place (I am surprised the hospital didn't have a deputy medical director, but I guess they want to portray this guy as a villain?) but yeaaah

Well, when you are as old as I am 2014 does not seem that long ago.....

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On 1/9/2019 at 11:17 AM, doodlebug said:

 I know it is based on a true story and the real-life doctor did have throat cancer which was treated just as he started the job, but the writing of this storyline bears no resemblance to real life.  I also doubt that the real doc's wife was pregnant or that his marriage was on the rocks; so, if they were going to embellish the story anyway, they should've dropped the cancer thing completely.

Actually, no. In the book the doctor (named Eric, not Max) gets cancer as an older man. At the time, he has one son who's in his early 20s, not a soon-to-be baby daughter. And most important, he was out of work for two years because of the cancer. 

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5 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

Actually, no. In the book the doctor (named Eric, not Max) gets cancer as an older man. At the time, he has one son who's in his early 20s, not a soon-to-be baby daughter. And most important, he was out of work for two years because of the cancer. 

That is one of the problems with the show/network constantly bragging about how this is based on a true story.  TPTB have taken the truth and stretched it to the point where it is unrecognizable.  I haven't read the book but I'd be willing to bet that the real life Dr Eric didn't walk into the hospital and fire every cardiac surgeon in the joint on his first day.

ETA: I did a little research online and it would seem that Dr Manheimer was around 50 when he took the job at Bellevue.  As noted above, he had an adult son and one article specifically mentioned that he became a grandfather the day before he started radiation therapy for his cancer, so he was significantly older than Max.  When the book was published in 2012, he had just left his job as medical director at Bellevue where he had worked for 13 years.  He was 63 at the time the book came out.  His wife is also not a ballerina, as you might expect.  She has a far less glamorous job as a prof at NYU.

Edited by doodlebug.
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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:55 AM, doodlebug said:

Just more bad medicine on a show that seems to take pride in it's lack of accuracy.

It concerns me that Americans will inevitably form opinions about health care and health care policy issues based on what they're shown on these shows.

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5 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

Is there/will there be a topic for last night's (1/15/19) episode?

I started one for you.  All you have to do is click on Start a new Topic and follow the formatting from prior eppies.

Edited by doodlebug.
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On 1/16/2019 at 12:02 PM, sempervivum said:

It concerns me that Americans will inevitably form opinions about health care and health care policy issues based on what they're shown on these shows.

Some maybe, likely the same ones who form opinions about guilt or innocence based on CSI. But I like to think the majority are smarter than that. certainly no one I know actually thinks these shows are real. 

Honestly, I totally understand why doctors and medical professionals are upset with the portrayals but I don’t watch TV for realism. If I did, I’d only watch documentaries.  That said, if I’m not entertained by a show, I won’t watch it. So far this one has held my interest. I don’t like the ER doctor, didn’t frlm the start. I warmed up to Iggy and Helen and I’ve always liked Kapoor. Still on the fence about Reynolds. And on z totally shallow note, I think Ryan Eggold is hot! 😀

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2 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Honestly, I totally understand why doctors and medical professionals are upset with the portrayals but I don’t watch TV for realism.

I can't speak for any other doctor or nurse, but for me, it's amusing to see things gotten hysterically wrong and then kvetch about it.

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