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S13.E12 Will Returns to China

Bill's dad crying on camera over what a great kid Will is did nothing for me. Was he crying for his kids when he left them and their mom had to go on welfare and work 3 jobs to keep a roof over their heads while he lived in a 4 bedroom house with his new woman? 

Bill's mom and stepdad are sweet people. I noticed  his mom really did not interact with his dad at all. She is keeping the peace in order to have a relationship with her grandkids. That is all. I wouldn't expect anything more from her. She's a classy lady. 

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22 minutes ago, readheaded said:

Me, too.  And, stature didn't seem to hurt Matt Roloff's extracurricular activities, even before he was on reality TV.

Bill's dad didn't retire from the military, so there wouldn't have been any financial benefits from his service to be had for him or his family.   

Bill was, indeed, industrious and successful well before reality TV, which is why I think some people find the whole idea that he couldn't or doesn't pull his financial weight a strange idea.  

Agree.  Both Bill and Jen are very smart, ambitious and successful in their own right even before TLC came along.  Wow, I didn't know about Bill's family struggles when the dad left.  That is a pretty shitty thing to do.  I definitely would've resented my dad if he and his "other" family were thriving while we were barely getting by on welfare.  I'm glad that everyone seems to have made amends and are able to have a normal if not at least cordial relationship.

I have such a greater admiration for Barbara and Judy for the way they supported their families when their husbands jumped ship.

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25 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

Agree.  Both Bill and Jen are very smart, ambitious and successful in their own right even before TLC came along.  Wow, I didn't know about Bill's family struggles when the dad left.  That is a pretty shitty thing to do.  I definitely would've resented my dad if he and his "other" family were thriving while we were barely getting by on welfare.  I'm glad that everyone seems to have made amends and are able to have a normal if not at least cordial relationship.

I have such a greater admiration for Barbara and Judy for the way they supported their families when their husbands jumped ship.

Me, too, especially while they were trying to successfully parent kids with special needs.  

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50 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

 Barbara's thought bubble when watching her ex hijack the rickshaw...What a jackass.....

It's funny because I'm sure Barbara was devastated when she was abandoned with the kids, but looks like she won in the end. Her husband seems like a very kind, considerate man. 

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2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Bill's dad crying on camera over what a great kid Will is did nothing for me. Was he crying for his kids when he left them and their mom had to go on welfare and work 3 jobs to keep a roof over their heads while he lived in a 4 bedroom house with his new woman? 

Bill's mom and stepdad are sweet people. I noticed  his mom really did not interact with his dad at all. She is keeping the peace in order to have a relationship with her grandkids. That is all. I wouldn't expect anything more from her. She's a classy lady. 

Yeah, Bill's dad seems like a blowhard to me and I don't completely buy his emotion, but I get where he's coming from.  Having 2 kids with a chronic illness, I remember when they were first diagnosed and feeling so afraid that they'd never be able to have "normal" lives and fearing that they'd have a diminished future.  As they've gotten older (one's now a college grad and working a "big boy" job and the other's doing well in high school and pursuing things he loves), I find I have flashes of emotion where I'm so grateful that some of my fears aren't coming to fruition.  It has to be so gratifying for Bill and Jen's parents to see them successful and happy with children of their own given that they both wanted that for themselves.  

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How did Bill and family pay for NYU?  It's a very expensive private university, not a State university where I could see him getting scholarships and State aid.  The tuition alone is over $40,000 a year!

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16 minutes ago, JerseyGirl said:

How did Bill and family pay for NYU?  It's a very expensive private university, not a State university where I could see him getting scholarships and State aid.  The tuition alone is over $40,000 a year!

If I recall he wasn’t very happy there and came close to jumping from a building.

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25 minutes ago, JerseyGirl said:

How did Bill and family pay for NYU?  It's a very expensive private university, not a State university where I could see him getting scholarships and State aid.  The tuition alone is over $40,000 a year!

It's just as possible that he got grants and scholarships there as it would have been if he'd gone to a state school.  

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In the scene with the hats where Bill was pretending he was a zombie and the kids were hiding behind the table, was that a restaurant?

If it was a restaurant, that was totally low class behavior. A restaurant isn't a playground. Other people are trying to eat in peace.

Jen said that she didn't think that daddy should play that game here. That makes me think that it was a restaurant.

Bill and his dad have no class. They think that they are funny, when in reality, they are annoying. It's sad that they are teaching the kids their bad behavior.

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On 12/5/2018 at 6:03 AM, Honey said:

The presence of chicken feet, in a food market

Hi, I'm asian and live in Hawaii and have bought chicken feet and cooked the feet. I  cook and simmer the feet for and hour  to soften the cartilage then put some shoyu for taste of a drink if you like.They cost abou 1.60 a lb. Their is a little meat on them, I remember when Jen was talking with her co-workers and they asked if she ate chicken feet.I also liked if the could visit NEW DAY FOSTER HOME again. I still read about them and keep in touch with them.

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8 hours ago, JerseyGirl said:

How did Bill and family pay for NYU?  It's a very expensive private university, not a State university where I could see him getting scholarships and State aid.  The tuition alone is over $40,000 a year!

I'm sure he did get some academic scholarships if he had the HS grades & test scores to get in. Plus he's the oldest of 3 , and his mom was making a small salary so  possible that would have qualified him for financial aid awarded directly from the school. NYU does has a considerable university endowment fund. And there is always loans.

Same is true for Jen. who completed her  undergrad at University of Miami in Florida, which is private, then a  medical degree at Johns Hopkins.

People spend (or borrow) money on what they want to. That is why I take a small step back on stories where there is "no money" - sometimes the lack of $$ can open a door.  Yes, there might have not been $$ for vacations, fancy cars, and other things, but when it comes to education, there is no financial limit and where's there a will , there is a way.

Edited by sATL.
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I watched the episode yesterday. Did I actually see Zoe swat Jen's hand a couple of times in the chef's kitchen? Can't believe that. She's going to be a force to reckon with when she's 14. Not cute at all; I don't really care for their parenting style at all. I have 2 of my own and I would NEVER tolerate any behavior of that type. They will be 'doormat' parents, afraid of losing their children's "love"; they already don't have their respect. I put love in quotation marks because I think those children are likely bribed in to their lives with Bill and Jen. I don't think they have a true sense of real life. Who lives so lavishly as they do; go to Disney World on a whim, travel internationally like they do. A child Will's age wanting to go to China has no real basis of desire IMO. He asks; he gets. No idea of the magnitude of a trip like that. Mostly wasted on a child of his age; perhaps when he's older and would/could appreciate it. I also noticed that Will was placed in a pre school class with 4 and 5 year olds who seemed more mature than he did. Why not put him in an appropriate grade level class? 

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8 hours ago, floridamom said:

I watched the episode yesterday. Did I actually see Zoe swat Jen's hand a couple of times in the chef's kitchen? Can't believe that. She's going to be a force to reckon with when she's 14. Not cute at all; I don't really care for their parenting style at all. I have 2 of my own and I would NEVER tolerate any behavior of that type. They will be 'doormat' parents, afraid of losing their children's "love"; they already don't have their respect. I put love in quotation marks because I think those children are likely bribed in to their lives with Bill and Jen. I don't think they have a true sense of real life. Who lives so lavishly as they do; go to Disney World on a whim, travel internationally like they do. A child Will's age wanting to go to China has no real basis of desire IMO. He asks; he gets. No idea of the magnitude of a trip like that. Mostly wasted on a child of his age; perhaps when he's older and would/could appreciate it. I also noticed that Will was placed in a pre school class with 4 and 5 year olds who seemed more mature than he did. Why not put him in an appropriate grade level class? 

I have many of the same thoughts. 

I wonder if Will and Zoey have any understanding and/or appreciation of the fact that MOST children in the USA do NOT live the lavish lifestyle they do???  Even parents, who may be financially comfortable, do NOT access their children to all these material things ad infinitum seemingly to excess. 

I know the kids are on the young side; however,these are the years when values are instilled.  Constantly indulging them with excessive creature comforts on demand may not result in success in the character-building department of life.

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8 hours ago, floridamom said:

I watched the episode yesterday. Did I actually see Zoe swat Jen's hand a couple of times in the chef's kitchen? Can't believe that. She's going to be a force to reckon with when she's 14. Not cute at all; I don't really care for their parenting style at all. I have 2 of my own and I would NEVER tolerate any behavior of that type. They will be 'doormat' parents, afraid of losing their children's "love"; they already don't have their respect. I put love in quotation marks because I think those children are likely bribed in to their lives with Bill and Jen. I don't think they have a true sense of real life. Who lives so lavishly as they do; go to Disney World on a whim, travel internationally like they do. A child Will's age wanting to go to China has no real basis of desire IMO. He asks; he gets. No idea of the magnitude of a trip like that. Mostly wasted on a child of his age; perhaps when he's older and would/could appreciate it. I also noticed that Will was placed in a pre school class with 4 and 5 year olds who seemed more mature than he did. Why not put him in an appropriate grade level class? 

the class in china ? My guess is that they were learning into to  calligraphy (ie arts/crafts) - which Will does not know. If Zoey was awake, that would be her class.

Did the teacher say the class was learning something about self discipline? That was about when I lost satellite.. I truely wanted to see that lesson...

This might be a bad rumor, but it is possible that classes overseas are not on the same pace level as classes in the US. A 6-7 yr old class in china, could be like US 3-4 grade. 

now I would love to see his class/teacher/room in FL or even the old one in Houston.. Based on age, that would make him a rising 1st grader right ?

Edited by sATL.
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If this was filmed fall last year he would have been 7 and if in an age placement class would have been in second grade.   If the rumors that the kids are not placed in their age norm class are true, then Will probably was in a kindergarten class at the time.  

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4 hours ago, sATL said:

 

Did the teacher say the class was learning something about self discipline? That was about when I lost satellite.. I truely wanted to see that lesson...

 

Yes, it was a very nice lesson. It was teaching the children to be polite, courteous, and to respect their parents.  This is a lesson that the Arnold-Klein children desperately need. Will and Zoey are definitely not taught these behaviors by their parents.

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16 hours ago, pdlinda said:

I wonder if Will and Zoey have any understanding and/or appreciation of the fact that MOST children in the USA do NOT live the lavish lifestyle they do???  Even parents, who may be financially comfortable, do NOT access their children to all these material things ad infinitum seemingly to excess. 

On 12/8/2018 at 5:30 AM, floridamom said:

I don't think they have a true sense of real life. Who lives so lavishly as they do; go to Disney World on a whim, travel internationally like they do. A child Will's age wanting to go to China has no real basis of desire IMO. He asks; he gets. 

As Will and Zoey learn more about the circumstances surrounding their adoptions, they will no doubt continue to develop an understanding that  many, many children/people around the world are impoverished, as well as an appreciation of the fact that they themselves were born into a "lifestyle" where they didn't have access to many of the most basic life necessities.  In addition, doing things such as helping during the holiday party held at the children's hospital, choosing gifts to donate to children for Christmas, etc, will give them first hand knowledge of just how fortunate they are, in all areas of their lives.  IMHO, a large number of people go through their whole lives having only an intellectual understanding of what is to them an abstract concept, whereas Will and Zoey will have actual experiential understanding of their current standard of living as compared to that of others - both from having lived it and if not actually having concrete memories, at least maintaining an awareness of that past and its after effects, as well as from the volunteer activities to which they are exposed by Bill and Jennifer.  All of which will give them a much more authentic, accurate "basis of desire" than most of us will ever have.

On 12/8/2018 at 5:30 AM, floridamom said:

I also noticed that Will was placed in a pre school class with 4 and 5 year olds who seemed more mature than he did. Why not put him in an appropriate grade level class? 

14 hours ago, Absolom said:

If this was filmed fall last year he would have been 7 and if in an age placement class would have been in second grade.   If the rumors that the kids are not placed in their age norm class are true, then Will probably was in a kindergarten class at the time.  

 I too noticed that Will was filmed in a class with slightly younger children;  however, I don't recall any reason for this being given?  (And I definitely don't recall it being said that it was done due to delays on his part as compared to other children his age).  Personally, I can think of many reasons why he might not have been placed in a class of 7 year olds and honestly, I'm not sure why it really matters.  Then again, I also don't understand why there is such focus on unearthing and exposing evidence that Will and Zoey have developmental delays (e,g, speech, learning, and behavioral delays).  Let's just say they do have speech, learning, and behavioral delays.  Okay..... And....?  It's not as if this indicates some moral failing on their part or their parents' part, some level of denial a problem exists, or neglect in the care of the delay(s).  It would simply mean that they have some developmental delays.  Period.  And actually, it would follow that the kids and their parents are due some grace if the kids' behavior is currently found to be lacking, as it's logically inconsistent to say the kids have delays, including behavioral ones, while at the same time expecting behavior from them comparable to other kids in the same age range.

Edited by SabineElisabeth.
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4 hours ago, SabineElisabeth said:

As Will and Zoey learn more about the circumstances surrounding their adoptions, they will no doubt continue to develop an understanding that  many, many children/people around the world are impoverished, as well as an appreciation of the fact that they themselves were born into a "lifestyle" where they didn't have access to many of the most basic life necessities.  In addition, doing things such as helping during the holiday party held at the children's hospital, choosing gifts to donate to children for Christmas, etc, will give them first hand knowledge of just how fortunate they are, in all areas of their lives.  IMHO, a large number of people go through their whole lives having only an intellectual understanding of what is to them an abstract concept, whereas Will and Zoey will have actual experiential understanding of their current standard of living as compared to that of others - both from having lived it and if not actually having concrete memories, at least maintaining an awareness of that past and its after effects, as well as from the volunteer activities to which they are exposed by Bill and Jennifer.  All of which will give them a much more authentic, accurate "basis of desire" than most of us will ever have.

 I too noticed that Will was filmed in a class with slightly younger children;  however, I don't recall any reason for this being given?  (And I definitely don't recall it being said that it was done due to delays on his part as compared to other children his age).  Personally, I can think of many reasons why he might not have been placed in a class of 7 year olds and honestly, I'm not sure why it really matters.  Then again, I also don't understand why there is such focus on unearthing and exposing evidence that Will and Zoey have developmental delays (e,g, speech, learning, and behavioral delays).  Let's just say they do have speech, learning, and behavioral delays.  Okay..... And....?  It's not as if this indicates some moral failing on their part or their parents' part, some level of denial a problem exists, or neglect in the care of the delay(s).  It would simply mean that they have some developmental delays.  Period.  And actually, it would follow that the kids and their parents are due some grace if the kids' behavior is currently found to be lacking, as it's logically inconsistent to say the kids have delays, including behavioral ones, while at the same time expecting behavior from them comparable to other kids in the same age range.

agree, and, we really do not know what goes on in their every day lives without cameras.  I thought Will was very appropriate in the class with the translator/teacher -maybe because it was one on one, or maybe, in real life, at school, etc. no cameras, he is just more in control of himself because he knows it is expected of him.  Plus Bill didn't have easy access to clown around.  Who knows if Bill prods them for the outrageous behavior while filming is going on.  In these scripted reality shows, there is always more than meets the eye of what we see edited down for an episode, in my opinion.  YMMV

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Regarding appreciation, that has to be taught. It won't come automatically just because Will and Zoey were once impoverished orphans. My uncle has two adopted children from Russia. They're teenagers now and both are spoiled rotten and very nasty. 

Ironically, their family environment strongly mimics the Kleins. My uncle is a wealthy attorney, there was no discipline, an overabundance of material objects and a whole horde of extended family members who thought it was just adorable when the kids would be sassy as toddlers. Fast forward fifteen years and a mouthy teenager isn't quite as darling. 

I'm 50/50 on whether Bill and Jen will instill those values. There's times when I think they're grounded and times when I think they've come to believe their own hype. Time will tell.

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Regarding Will and the school, I don't think there's any big conspiracy. The initial plan was for both him and Zoey to participate, correct? So the producers needed to find a place that, a) was willing to film, b) had a small class size and c) was doing an activity that would appeal to both the kids and the viewers. The calligraphy and Will learning to write his name in Chinese (or is it Mandarin?) is much more interesting to watch than seven year-olds doing math in a public school. I think the aesthetics factored into it more than Will's delays.

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