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S37:E11 So Smart They're Dumb

Nobody in the cast is outright speaking about goats this year which is interesting.  Angelina looks the goatiest I think to the audience, but because no contestants speak about it outright it at first seemed like she was on the bottom but just kept slipping through.  Then it became comical how far she's come in the game because it seems like some big target appears as if from thin air every week.  Now it's like she's just there.  And everyone's fine with it or doesn't think about it.

I know that the contestants don't really care about the D/G divide but I was thinking about who's left in the game and the funniest thing is I forget about Alison more than I forget about Kara.  Alison/Kara/   Mike - Angelina - Nick/Davie/Christian.  It's not THAT bad for the Davids.  I hope I'm not missing someone.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay.
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On 12/5/2018 at 11:16 PM, Lamima said:

Few tidbits I don't think others have mentioned...

Christian saying 'sorry...I'm sorry...so sorry' to his GF. I felt like he was apologizing for Gabby. I think there was some romantic something going on between the two and I do think that's the real reason Gabby gunned for Christian this week (after seeing he has a GF).

 

My take is that when he got cast, he told Emily he wanted to put her down first for his loved one's visit.  She didn't want to do it (because she is shy and being on camera can make one even moreso).  He told her "oh, don't worry about it, I'll probably get voted off before the merge and you won't have to go." So she allowed it.  Now he has to say "im sorry" that he made it to the loved one's visit and she did have to come out to see him and be on camera, even though she's very shy.

 

22 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

(I do wish they'd given Christian's gf a sunhat, though, as her scalp already looked sunburned - ouch!)

 

OMG, yes!  I felt sorry for her because of beat red face and scalp that really needed sunblock and a hat.  She has that real fair skin that burns after being in the sun for 10 minutes.

I did think the editing made it look like Gabby was jealous, but I'm sure Christian must have talked about Emily in the hours of down time they have.

I loved Angelina bragging to her mom.  You know her mom is the type that pushed her to be a bit of an overachiever and "get noticed!"  Well, Angelina has certainly done that!

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I thought Nick was totally justified in being angry with Christian.  He saved Christian twice, they were in an alliance, they had scratched and claws and used a bunch of advantages to finally get the upper hand on the Goliaths and Christian, for no good reason, decides to vote out Carl, without consulting Nick or Davie.  

Not only did Christian betray Nick, Carl and Davie, he betrayed himself by completely blowing up his own game.  And all because Gabby cried and said she need to make a BIG move.  The ONLY people who benefited from Carl being blindsided were Alison, Kara and Mike, and perhaps Angelina who might join up with her old Goliath tribemates now.

Getting rid of Carl this week would have made way more sense.  The Davids would still have a 4-3 edge at worst, 5-2, if you count Angelina.  If they casually floated the idea to Nick and Davie, they might have jumped at it.  Worst case, they don't like the idea and they vote off Alison.

But, Gabby just HAD to make a BIG MOVE so she would "get the credit" and everyone would realize what a strategic monster she was and hand her the million dollars.   But, I blame Christian even more than Gabby, as he is smart enough to know better. 

It is one thing to get betrayed by an ally who makes a smart move, that helps his/her game.  But, when an ally betrays you to make an idiotic move, it has to be extremely frustrating.

I 100% agree with this entire post.  I could not have said it any better.

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Christian was "ride or die" with Gabby and thought she was the same with him -- that's why he stayed with her to vote out Carl.  She was foolish, obviously, and shouldn't have turned Christian against their core alliance and then immediately turned around to target him.  In another Survivor context this might seem like a "big move" and impressive to the jury, but Gabby just did not have the leverage or the position to make it work.  She basically ensured her own demise.  So much of life is knowing how much leverage you have before acting.

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I know Gabby thought Christian would get all the credit (most likely) but I kinda like the idea of them going to the end together. They worked from the beginning and he was doing everything for her that he could. They made a great duo. Almost like a JT and Stephen. Of course, Stephen got lambasted by the jury pretty much which is what Gabby wanted to avoid. I’m conflicted. I understand her reasoning but I wanted them to go to the end together. 

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On 12/6/2018 at 12:03 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think Christian fell out of Nick's Final 4 plans until after he betrayed the alliance by blindsiding Carl.

 

There is a secret scene video of Nick - prior to Carl's boot.  He says he'd like F3 to be himself, Angelina, and Mike with Davey as F4 and Carl F5.  He doesn't say anything about Gabby or Christian. 

I have no real grounds for saying this, but my feelings are that Nick wanted to go farther with Christian - maybe even go to the end together early on, but something happened PRIOR to the Carl boot that changed his mind.  Either he saw a stronger connection between Gabby and Christian than what the Mason Dixon had, or he realized Christian would be harder to beat. 

Either way, I do believe he felt close to Christian but something happened to rock that boat - before Carl's boot.   

Where Carl's boot is concerned, I feel Nick was angry with Christian on both personal and gameplay levels, but I think he was mostly pissed because Christian had lost ground with him in the loyalty department and he'd had enough - but also/mostly because the Carl boot screwed up his gameplay.

Edited by Jextella.
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2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I am not sure Mike can beat anyone, except for maybe Angelina.  He is an OK player, but I think he would fall victim to he doesn't need the money syndrome.

 

1 hour ago, Jersey Guy 87 said:

That's one of the worst reasons to vote for/against someone, IMO.  The Survivor vote should be about how you play Survivor, not whether you need the money.

 

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh yea, Mike is almost certainly a goat at this point. Less so about his money than the fact that he hasn't actually done anything though imo.

 

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

...I don't think he has done much less than people like Alison, Kara and Angelina, and I think he probably has better relationships than them.  He would never beat Nick, Davie or Christian, regardless of his wealth.  But, against Kara, Alison or Angelina it might be the deciding factor   

 

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think it is a good criteria for voting, but I think it is a common one.  

Also, I don't think it would be the only or even the main reason Mike won't win.  He has played only a so-so game.  If he was dominating the beach, winning challenges, playing a great social and strategic game, etc. he might still win.  But, I think a wealthy celebrity has a higher bar than ordinary people.  

The two most common ways to describe the final vote of the jury are in essence:

1) you are handing someone a million dollars, and;

2) you are giving someone the title of "Sole Survivor"

Money is the more tangible thing than a title, so I think people tend to think more about the former.

to @Jersey Guy 87, I would certainly consider voting for Mike if he made F3.  While some people are motivated to win Survivor for the million dollars, his motivations skew toward competitiveness.  He wants to win.  And, let's face it, for the spotlight.  But to consideration numero uno, if I were on the jury, I may just ask him what would be his plans for the money.

He definitely needs to face Goliaths in the F3 to have a shot.

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

The word "goat" is often used too liberally, IMO...Mike is a good example.  I don't think he's a goat.  He had a strategy, he stuck to it, and it worked for him, i.e. he played the middle. 

Davey is tougher.  His edit doesn't show him doing much or bonding with too many people other than Carl and perhaps Nick.  But he was involved in the Dan/John blindsides and in fact, the decision to use his idol on Christian was his own based on one of Nick's interviews.  He made decisions, thus far, that benefited "the team", i.e. the Davids.  That doesn't mean he hasn't played the game.  It's just harder to isolate one team player as better than the others when they work together.  He also says one of his strategies is to shield himself. That is a strategy - no better or worse than working the middle.  

Kara is perhaps another challenging player to assess.  Alec said she played a beautiful social game.  She made it so she was part of all the important conversations.  That served her well.

The other thing to note is that circumstances drive much of peoples' gameplay.  For example, the Goliaths bonded really well and worked hard at sticking together. Someone like Kara never had to make big moves - not for a long time anyway.

With a few exceptions, David's were shown to make moves because they had to make them.  Goliaths were not shown to make as many moves because they didn't have to make them, but it doesn't mean they weren't playing.

For me, a goat is someone who doesn't have his/her own strategy and just follows along with the strategy/game of someone else.   I don't see that happening with any of the players this season.  Each came to play, which is what they've done.  They just had to play to their circumstances.   Whoever makes F3 will deserve to be there this season, IMO.

I liken your post to Jackets and Eggs.  The first episode (post) that I felt like praising for how good it was.  I can't bring myself to chop it up, but in following the Mike based theme, I don't think he's a goat in the strictest sense, either.  But more broadly, if you define "goat" as someone who you simply think can be beaten in the F3, he definitely qualifies.

 

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Davie has played a strong strategic game but he has not played a great social game. Christian has played a strong social game but not a great strategic game. Nick has played a good social and strategic game.

Christian is a target because he has strong bonds with a lot of folks on the jury and he can point to winning an individual immunity and playing an idol. But Christian was effectively kept in the game by Nick and Davie. And Christian knows that, which means that he is going to have to fall back on Jessica and Carl as his bigger strategic plays, except Davie or Nick can point to how the Carl play backfired on Christian.

Nick is the one who had four people, we only saw one person but Alec's interview confirmed that four people shared the same info, tell him that Christian was going. That shows how strongly tied Nick was to different people. Then Nick used that information to save Christian. Nick's moves are all tied to working with someone else. Nick relied on Davie playing an idol to save Christian. Nick worked with Davie and Carl to find the vote steal advantage. Nick worked with Davie to find the hidden idol. Nick worked with Mike and Davie to vote out Gabby.

Davie can point to his strategic game and what he did to lead the Davids. He can point to his being the point person on most decision. Davie saved Christian with his idol and sent John home by telling Nick and Christian to vote for John. Davie helped Nick find an advantage and and idol by distracting the Goliaths. Davie helped Nick and Carl figure out when and how to play their advantages. Davie helped Christian save himself and flush Christian's idol while getting Christian's number one ally voted out. But none of the Goliaths are bringing Davie information and the Goliaths have not noticed that Davie is the mastermind in the David tribe. So Davie would have to sell what he did to the jury at final tribal and hope to god that Carl and the other Davids, are singing Davies praises at Ponderosa.

THE post-merge strategic synopsis to read if you're just joining the show this week.

 

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

...I guess they didn't consider the possibility that Davie would spill the beans.  What I'm wondering is why Davie didn't vote along with Christian to vote Alison out.  I know that he wanted to make it look like he was with the others but I guess he didn't consider that Mike and Angelina were going to have a backup plan in case Christian had an idol. 

Seems like he just assumed that Christian's lone vote for Alison was going to send her home.  Had Davie talked to Christian and voted for Alison, it would have been a 2-2 tie.  On revote there would have been Nick, Christian, Davie, Mike, Angelina, and Kara voting between Alison and Gabby.  I think Nick would have been the swing vote and it would have been interesting to see what happened...

I'm with you.  Try as I might, I can't remember a reason to jump on board with the 'Davie knew about the Gabby vote' thinking.  I was thinking of a re-vote scenerio and wondering if Christian would have to draw if it went to rocks (despite his idol).  Anyway, Davie's vote was a little disappointing.  He played it safe.

I agree that Nick would have been the swing vote - with others falling to original tribal lines.  It would be interesting to hear who Nick would have voted for, but I suspect he would prefer Gabby to having to draw a rock.

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I think Davie was just fine with Gabby going home. I think Davie was just fine with Alison going home. He was not aligned with either one of them so he could careless. He voted with the majority because that was the safest thing to do. If Christian didn't play his idol, then Davie could say "I warned you" at final tribal. If Christian does play his idol, Gabby or Alison goes home and that doesn't impact Davie's game. Losing Gabby was a big blow to Christian. Now Christian is faced with the fact that he was not included in a large vote and he has lost his ally. By voting for Alison, Christian loses someone else he could work with.

I actually think Davie said something to the effect of he didn't care if they voted for Gabby or Alison during the episode. Either way, Davie is in far better shape then he would have been if Christian went home. Davie has his meat shield in Christian. Christian is isolated because he lost Gabby and voted for Alison. Davie has at least three more days, maybe longer. Good news for Davie.

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1 hour ago, Mark2 said:

to @Jersey Guy 87, I would certainly consider voting for Mike if he made F3.  While some people are motivated to win Survivor for the million dollars, his motivations skew toward competitiveness.  He wants to win.  And, let's face it, for the spotlight.  But to consideration numero uno, if I were on the jury, I may just ask him what would be his plans for the money.

I would ask him what he did to deserve it, because I'm not seeing much.  "Playing the middle" may be his strategy but IMO it's unimpressive compared to everyone else (except maybe Allison)

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Well knowing Nick wants Angelina and Mike for F3 and he may have gotten his way it just seems like a boring end to the season is coming. I hate basically knowing the F3 weeks before it happens SMH. Just seeing Him Angelina and Mike act like they are better than everyone else at the reward made me go If this is F4 it would suck hard. 

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5 minutes ago, princelina said:

I would ask [Mike] what he did to deserve it, because I'm not seeing much.  "Playing the middle" may be his strategy but IMO it's unimpressive compared to everyone else (except maybe Allison)

I agree, I don't think he's really done a whole lot.  As much as I hate the fixation on "building a resume"... he doesn't have one.  I tend to dislike the "I need to make a big move to build my resume" line of thinking.  But you can build your resume by playing the game and making strategic moves that are good moves for the sake of being good strategy as opposed to shock value.  I don't think he's really done much of anything.  He just sits there and picks what he thinks is the safest route.  Some people have definitely won by getting others to do the dirty work for them (I think that might describe Sandra and her "anyone but me" strategy) but I don't think Mike can even be said to have gotten others to have done the work for him.  He's not controlling the shots.  He just gloms on to whatever seems like it could be better for him.

I think Mike and Angelina have fairly similar games at this point.  Although I'm sure Angelina will think of herself as the mastermind, and ya know, SHE BARGAINED FOR RICE!!!  It's particularly interesting that Angelina said that Mike has always been her #1 since the beginning because I really don't think they've been like that?  Or has the editing just hidden it?  Mike certainly didn't back Angelina when she wanted Christian out and it was Elizabeth.  Mike certainly didn't push to include Angelina in the Secret Six or whatever that was called. 

What's worse is that after Angelina got her feelings butt hurt because two Goliaths voted for her and packed up her things and went to play with the Davies, she voted with the Davies against Alison while Mike voted for Carl.  So now he's "always been with her since the beginning"?  Pfftt.  I wonder how much of that was for jury management... "I was always loyal to Mike from the start".  Because she hasn't been.  If she makes it to the end and pulls this crap I hope someone like Alec rips her a new one.  She is a flipper, plain as day.  She's only loyal when it suits her to appear loyal.  The only person she is loyal to is herself.

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6 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree, I don't think he's really done a whole lot.  As much as I hate the fixation on "building a resume"... he doesn't have one.  I tend to dislike the "I need to make a big move to build my resume" line of thinking.  But you can build your resume by playing the game and making strategic moves that are good moves for the sake of being good strategy as opposed to shock value.  I don't think he's really done much of anything.  He just sits there and picks what he thinks is the safest route.  Some people have definitely won by getting others to do the dirty work for them (I think that might describe Sandra and her "anyone but me" strategy) but I don't think Mike can even be said to have gotten others to have done the work for him.  He's not controlling the shots.  He just gloms on to whatever seems like it could be better for him.

I think Mike and Angelina have fairly similar games at this point.  Although I'm sure Angelina will think of herself as the mastermind, and ya know, SHE BARGAINED FOR RICE!!!  It's particularly interesting that Angelina said that Mike has always been her #1 since the beginning because I really don't think they've been like that?  Or has the editing just hidden it?  Mike certainly didn't back Angelina when she wanted Christian out and it was Elizabeth.  Mike certainly didn't push to include Angelina in the Secret Six or whatever that was called. 

What's worse is that after Angelina got her feelings butt hurt because two Goliaths voted for her and packed up her things and went to play with the Davies, she voted with the Davies against Alison while Mike voted for Carl.  So now he's "always been with her since the beginning"?  Pfftt.  I wonder how much of that was for jury management... "I was always loyal to Mike from the start".  Because she hasn't been.  If she makes it to the end and pulls this crap I hope someone like Alec rips her a new one.  She is a flipper, plain as day.  She's only loyal when it suits her to appear loyal.  The only person she is loyal to is herself.

And Angelina can at least say that she was on the outs and kept herself safe.  But that's why I think they are both goats.  To me the goat is the person I can sit in my living room and confidently say "That person will get no votes."

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23 hours ago, blackwing said:

If Davie hadn't been trying to save Christian, he wouldn't have told Christian that he was the target.  Christian thought that Alison was the target.  Davie knew Christian had an idol so essentially told Christian to play his idol.  Since he knew Christian had an idol, I'm assuming he voted for Christian to make it look like he was with the others.

In this context, ‘save’ is a relative term.  Did Davie’s heads-up to Christian ‘save’ Christian in this particular TC vote?  Sure - but that was purely a secondary side-effect benefit for Christian.  The primary benefits from Davie’s POV were (a) preserving a bigger diversionary target for three more days, and (b) flushing that target’s idol.

 

9 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

[Davie] won't feel that way if he's sitting at FTC with Christian, that's for sure.

Not an issue; Christian’s days are numbered, and everybody - including Christian, I expect, after he saw this vote - knows it.  The moment Christian doesn’t win individual immunity and/or find a HII, he’s toast.

 

9 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Agreed...no matter which side [Davie and Christian] could both be sitting on.

Despite the total lopsidedness of the TC vote, I think Davie still earned some goodwill with Christian which will pay good-sized dividends if Davie makes it to F3.

 

RE Christian’s apology to Emily: for lack of a better term, I got sort of a “dual vibe” on this.

Firstly, the simple: an apology for the extended separation, which (and we may have lost part of the contextual explanation of this on the editing room floor) may well have been harder on either/both than either Christian or Emily anticipated.

Secondly, and more complicated (and I am fully aware I’m basing this on nothing more than a few disparate seconds’ glimpse at the person who is Emily): for some reason I got the impression Emily is a very introverted person who may also suffer anxiety more than most - in the form of:

  1. What might be considered more than “normal”  separation anxiety for an extended absence.
  2. Possibly some degree of agoraphobia, such that leaving familiar surroundings to travel halfway around the planet in the company of none but strangers would be a form of personal agony to Emily.  It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Christian put Emily’s name down as my primary Loved One visit while reassuring her (a) he’d probably never make it that far and (b) even if he did, Emily could always pass on the trip - such that Christian was likely surprised as hell when Emily came out, and immediately apologized for what he knew was probably a form of hell for her.

Again, this is pure speculation on my part and based on virtually nothing but wisps of observation - but if true, it would certainly speak to Emily’s devotion to Christian that she would endure such for his sake.

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29 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

ben-driebergen-finds-another-hidden-immunity-idol-survivor-heroes-vs-healers-vs-hustlers-finale-season-35-cbs_nzy7xo.jpg.b93b6aace26fa29b27270e1c82c9f157.jpg

Reckon they think they could get away with that again???   :>

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8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Vis a vis whether Mike or Nick suggested the Gabby vote, Dalton from EW thinks it was Mike:

I need to go back and rewatch. I feel like whoever said it wasn't really on camera at the time so we're just going by the voice. Both of them have pretty distinct voices though, so it should be easy to tell.

I went back and rewatched the ep, and it was Nick. Mike agreed. But it was Nick's suggestion.

Mike was informing Nick and Davie who were lying in the shelter of Gabby's desire to vote out Christian, with Angelina sitting nearby him, and said but what if he's go an idol. Most of it is Davie looking dubious with shots to the others.

Nick: I've seen his idol.

Mike: Oh, really. And if he plays his idol?

Nick: You could vote for Gabby.

A beat. Angelina starts to repeat something...

Mike: That's a really good plan.

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6 hours ago, blackwing said:

I know that he wanted to make it look like he was with the others but I guess he didn't consider that Mike and Angelina were going to have a backup plan in case Christian had an idol. 

Davie obviously knew there was a plan to vote Gabby in case Christian had the idol since he was there when it was first discussed.

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Angelina looks the goatiest I think to the audience ...

I think Mike is far more of a goat tbh. They both are getting goat edits, but Mike is basically a non-entity and Angelina is all over the eps.

Thanks for rewatching and transcribing, @violet and green. Another good move by Nick.

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2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

ben-driebergen-finds-another-hidden-immunity-idol-survivor-heroes-vs-healers-vs-hustlers-finale-season-35-cbs_nzy7xo.jpg.b93b6aace26fa29b27270e1c82c9f157.jpg

That was such a farce.  They might have just as well scrapped the season midway through and just handed him the money.  Or they could have created a new Rupert style award - Best Performance by a Marine on Survivor.

They had better not pull that "It's Raining Idols" crap again.

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I didn't get that Gaby's actions had anything to do with Christian's girlfriend.  Yes, she and Christian bonded at the beginning over things they had in common, but I have seen zero romantic chemistry or seeming desire from either one in a very long time.  They were friends and allies.  Nothing more.

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11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I do think it can work in the reverse some times, with the "plain" women perceived as really smart whether they actually are or not. Looks are part of this game so we might as well talk about them.

Tina turned into a caveman (and not a good looking one!) during her season and still won over the more charismatic and good looking Colby... so it's not a total truism, but I do agree in general being really ridiculously good looking does help you build your "social game" in a much easier manner. It may even influence some poor young stooge to hand you immunity!

But in general you need to walk a line of being good at challenges but not TOO good, charismatic but not in a way that you are seen as unbeatable. Always seek balance Daniel-son.

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22 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'd say it is a bit of both.  I don't think he has done much less than people like Alison, Kara and Angelina, and I think he probably has better relationships than them.  He would never beat Nick, Davie or Christian, regardless of his wealth.  But, against Kara, Alison or Angelina it might be the deciding factor   

I keep wondering why no one has Nick or Davey on their radars as threats.  At this point, people are looking strongly at the jury, I suppose Mike and Angelina feel they couldn't beat Kara or Alison up against fellow Goliaths - which is probably true.  

13 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

But in general you need to walk a line of being good at challenges but not TOO good, charismatic but not in a way that you are seen as unbeatable. Always seek balance Daniel-son.

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This could be another reason.  Both Nick and Davey haven't drawn much attention to themselves in big ways - other than the Dan and Jon votes which were more like team-sport than anything. 

Even Nick suggesting Gabby was done casually and non-aggressively.   These two seem to epitomize the "speak softly but carry a big stick" motto.

If jury reactions are what I think they are, their efforts are coming to light thanks to Carl.  "No BS Carl".

Edited by Jextella.
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Re Gabby and Christian's gf.

It seems to me that whatever the truth may be, Gabby would never want to admit that truth. If you put yourself into her place, would you ever want to admit that you were jealous of Christian's gf and turned against him for that reason? I think Gabby is plenty smart enough to know that would make her look bad and so she would not admit to that - regardless whether it's true or not.

If the truth was that she was angry at Christian for not telling her about his gf, once again, if you were Gabby, would you want to admit that was the truth? I don't think so.  I have no idea what the truth may be and I couldn't even guess. But I have said and done things in the past that would would cause me to be deeply embarrassed if I ever admitted doing those things. So I think Gabby decided it would be in her best interest to just withhold the truth - regardless of what that may be.  After all, she is under no obligation to admit to anything and I think it's in her best interest to just remain silent if and when she is asked something that she believes that answering would embarrass her.

Edited by MisterBluxom.
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I keep reading that Christian is such a brilliant person.  What is this based on?  He may be extremely good in his professional life and at certain types of puzzles, but that doesn't translate into brilliance in any other aspect.  He's glib, which I guess is a talent, but he's made several less-than-brilliant decisions in this game.  I feel like production is shoving this whole "brilliant nerd" thing down our throats, and Christian is happily playing along.

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23 minutes ago, EllenB said:

I keep reading that Christian is such a brilliant person.  What is this based on?  He may be extremely good in his professional life and at certain types of puzzles, but that doesn't translate into brilliance in any other aspect.  He's glib, which I guess is a talent, but he's made several less-than-brilliant decisions in this game.  I feel like production is shoving this whole "brilliant nerd" thing down our throats, and Christian is happily playing along.

As another favorite reality show espouses in its premier episode, there are many different kinds of genius; mathematical, strategic, business, social, etc.

From his profession, we know Christian has a technical genius.  And as seen in a couple challenges, he is very good with puzzles, which is a different, but likely related genius.  The both of those are why he was cast to fill the "brilliant nerd" archetype.  But as we've seen over the course of the season, he also has a social genius; that general geniality and friendliness that made practically everyone on the cast like him seemingly within moments.  And that's the "brilliance" that the rest of the cast are so afraid of at the moment, not his technical or puzzling geniuses.

The ability to play Survivor well is yet another kind of genius, and that is one that Christian does not have.  At least, not on the same level as Nick or Davie.  Christian may understand the theories, but Nick and Davie are better at putting them into practice.

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I think you often have to read beyond the confessionals in this, the storyline can sometimes be made a bit too simple, here being all about Gabby's big move and how it blew up in her face.  It looks more to me like she wanted to go with the Goliaths at this point and she has been shown recently as being closer to Allison than Christian.  It wouldn't surprise me if she wanted Davie as the alternate target should Christian play an idol.  And that would have made a better storyline, her v Davie.

I'm holding out hope that Kara and Allison play a bigger role than shown so far, for it to be a classic season than simply a pretty good one I think that's needed.

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On 6/12/2018 at 2:52 PM, DEL901 said:

Yeah, I go with door # 3.  I don't think Gabby was jealous romantically.  I think Christian made her feel special and then she saw him with Emily and realized that he's just that kind of guy and his kindness to her didn't necessarily mean that he thought she was special.

I don't disagree but I still think that Gabby had hopes for Christian romantically. Why else would a girl want a guy to make her feel special if not for romantic reasons? I mean, she was with him for 30 days, day and night. Feelings were starting to develop, but he has a gf and he was talking about her. Gabby still had hopes because it's one thing to hear about a person and how a couple behaves with each other and another thing to actually see them in front of you. When she saw them together and she realized that she (Gabby) had no chance with Christian, she decided to vote him out as some kind of revenge. This is not something she will ever admit though. She will only say that he was a big threat and she wanted to make a big move etc.

Edited by himela.
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2 hours ago, himela said:

I don't disagree but I still think that Gabby had hopes for Christian romantically. Why else would a girl want a guy to make her feel special if not for romantic reasons? 

 

Support in a situation that is extremely difficult? Strategy to get him to care for you within the context of the game so that he has your back? Actual friendship? One of my best friends is a married man and I am a married woman. We care deeply for each other and have zero romantic interest. Men and women can be friends and care for each other without it being romantic.

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Same, @Rescue Mom.  And in 37 seasons of this show, we've seen many male-female alliances that went all the way to the end of the show or almost to the end of the show without it being romantic at all (Becky/Yul, Cirie/Aras, Natalie/Russell, etc.).  It's a staple of the show.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay.
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1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Same, @Rescue Mom.  And in 37 seasons of this show, we've seen many male-female alliances that went all the way to the end of the show or almost to the end of the show without it being romantic at all (Becky/Yul, Cirie/Aras, Natalie/Russell, etc.).  It's a staple of the show.

I agree.  But all of those people are a lot more mature than Gabby.  She’s just so young and immature and I wouldn’t at all be surprised if she had difficulty separating the Game from Real Life.  I think back to that early day on the beach when she was the weepy ingenue with the coquettish baby girl voice and asked him “will you play with me” and his response was “in the sand???”   I wouldn’t be at all surprised if she had feelings for him that developed into something more than alliance mates over the course of 30 days.  

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Well I know that if I ever want a man who is not my husband make me feel special, then there are not only friendly feelings towards him. There are many people on social meadia saying Gabby was jealous of Emily that's why she wanted to vote out Christian. And since there have been many close couples thoughout the years on Survivor, why is it only now with Gabby and Christian the matter of jealousy comes up? We can't everyone see it wrong...

Gabby said in interviews that she wanted to vote Christian out at final 8 because at final 7 he would expect it. Ehm... how could she know that? "after final 7 he could win immunities or find another idol" bla bla. Right. He could have become superman and kill them all as well. Her reasonings were stupid. The truth is that when she saw Emily and Christian together, she realized that it was "true love" as she said so she had no chance with him and she wanted to vote him out as revenge.

Was this question asked in any of the interviews to Gabby? Does anyone know?

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21 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree, I don't think he's really done a whole lot.  As much as I hate the fixation on "building a resume"... he doesn't have one.  I tend to dislike the "I need to make a big move to build my resume" line of thinking.  But you can build your resume by playing the game and making strategic moves that are good moves for the sake of being good strategy as opposed to shock value.  I don't think he's really done much of anything.  He just sits there and picks what he thinks is the safest route.  Some people have definitely won by getting others to do the dirty work for them (I think that might describe Sandra and her "anyone but me" strategy) but I don't think Mike can even be said to have gotten others to have done the work for him.  He's not controlling the shots.  He just gloms on to whatever seems like it could be better for him.

I think Mike and Angelina have fairly similar games at this point.  Although I'm sure Angelina will think of herself as the mastermind, and ya know, SHE BARGAINED FOR RICE!!!  It's particularly interesting that Angelina said that Mike has always been her #1 since the beginning because I really don't think they've been like that?  Or has the editing just hidden it?  Mike certainly didn't back Angelina when she wanted Christian out and it was Elizabeth.  Mike certainly didn't push to include Angelina in the Secret Six or whatever that was called. 

What's worse is that after Angelina got her feelings butt hurt because two Goliaths voted for her and packed up her things and went to play with the Davies, she voted with the Davies against Alison while Mike voted for Carl.  So now he's "always been with her since the beginning"?  Pfftt.  I wonder how much of that was for jury management... "I was always loyal to Mike from the start".  Because she hasn't been.  If she makes it to the end and pulls this crap I hope someone like Alec rips her a new one.  She is a flipper, plain as day.  She's only loyal when it suits her to appear loyal.  The only person she is loyal to is herself.

Angelina is not a flipper.  Her Goliath tribe (Alec, Kara and Alison too if she had a vote) turned on her and threw under the bus and wrote her name down at tribal council. What is worse they even told her her that the vote for her was a "contingency plan", i.e if idols are played than you are going home and we don't really care.  They are the flippers. Are you saying she shoudn't be "butt hurt" about that? Seriously? She was absolutely right at that moment to find new allies because her old allies told her she was expendable. How has she not been loyal to Mike?  She has never written down his name.  Remember Mike told her and Nick, Carl  and Davie that he was with all of them in voting out Alison.  Mike is the one that flipped there. I would love to see someone like Alec hypocritically try to call her a flipper considering has the first Goliath in the game to flip on his tribe and spent several episodes in a row plotting with the Davids to start voting out Golaths.

Ultimately every player in the game is loyal to himself/herself as this is not a team prize at the end.

Edited by LanceM.
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10 hours ago, EllenB said:

I keep reading that Christian is such a brilliant person.  What is this based on?  He may be extremely good in his professional life and at certain types of puzzles, but that doesn't translate into brilliance in any other aspect.  He's glib, which I guess is a talent, but he's made several less-than-brilliant decisions in this game.  I feel like production is shoving this whole "brilliant nerd" thing down our throats, and Christian is happily playing along.

I  don't know about anyone else but for me, it's not so much the producers telling me Christian is so brilliant but the players left in the game. And to be honest, I'm with you in not knowing what exactly it's based on and I like Christian. I've been as baffled as others as to why he's been Enemy #1 from the moment they merged since from my vantage point Nick was the bigger threat. But of course that's when we remember that there's a lot viewers see that the players at the time, while playing, are unaware of. But yeah, right now in the game, it's the other players more so selling the idea of Christian as this masterful genius/biggest threat. And I for one have been curious to have one of them articulate why exactly they think so. Far as I can tell, it seems to be based on his social game and their thinking the jury will like him more, I don't know.

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Possibly some degree of agoraphobia, such that leaving familiar surroundings to travel halfway around the planet in the company of none but strangers would be a form of personal agony to Emily.

I don't think it's agoraphobia. I've known a couple and true agoraphobics can barely even get out of their own front door, much less TRAVEL anywhere in the first place.

Quote

I keep reading that Christian is such a brilliant person.  What is this based on?  He may be extremely good in his professional life and at certain types of puzzles, but that doesn't translate into brilliance in any other aspect.  He's glib, which I guess is a talent, but he's made several less-than-brilliant decisions in this game.  I feel like production is shoving this whole "brilliant nerd" thing down our throats, and Christian is happily playing along.

Thank you! I never liked Christian and I especially like where you say 'production is shoving this whole 'brilliant nerd' thing down our throats.'  As opposed to being entertaining or even interesting, I've always found him to be just plain annoying.

Edited by mikewho.
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Christian is really smart. He has a doctorate in robotics and is a Profesor of Robotics. There is no denying that he is smart. We have heard him discuss math and engineering concepts on the show. He has co-authored five journal publications in three years, that is no small feat. So yeah, he is smart.

His Survivor game has been based on his social game and he has solved several different puzzles. He has founda hidden immunity idol and won indvidual immunity. I think he is playing a good game. His social game has been on point enough that Davie played an idol to save Christian, something Davie didn’t do to save Elizabeth, and Nick and Carl played advantages to keep Christian in the game. Overall, Christian has played a good enough game that Davie sees Christian as a meat shield, and who would have thought that on day one. 

Christian has been shown a lot but it is hard to avoid that when he has been a target at at least three tribal councils. Christian has alos been involved in a series of alliances and some solid group decisions. There is a reason he is there. It is not like Coach or Philip and their ridiculous behavior, Christian has been active enough that that players see him as a threat. 

I think Christian has made some missteps but overall, he has played a pretty good game and is seen as a threat by the other players.  

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I never said that Christian wasn't smart. He absolutely is. And apparently, somewhat accomplished.

I just said that as a viewer of a show that I watch purely for entertainment, I find him annoying and I do agree the show is shoving his 'brilliance' down our throats, to the extent that I don't give a rat's ass what he's done in the game.

He just bugs me. It's that simple. He's my least favorite player this season.

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree.  But all of those people are a lot more mature than Gabby.  She’s just so young and immature

Aras was 24 when he won Survivor.  He also said "Awwwwww, are you gonna call the Whaaaaaaaaaaaambulance?" at one point in the season.  But he was able to have non-sexual partnerships on the show

Edited by Ms Blue Jay.
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3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

[Aras] also said "Awwwwww, are you gonna call the Whaaaaaaaaaaaambulance?" at one point in the season. 

Still one of the all time best moments.

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People of course can have non-sexual partnerships; but someone as intense as Gabby and as needy as she appeared to be, and as her mother confirmed at the loved ones thing, could be non-sexually jealous (and hence punishing) of Christian's closeness to and care for his real life partner.

Her whole attitude throughout the season and particularly with enducing the (punishing) Carl vote seemed  to me to say, "He's there for me" and then he wasn't exclusively there for her... and so she got angry and I think it was a spiteful anger and she "got him back" by getting him (actually got herself!) out. So jealous she cut off her nose to spite her face!

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On 12/7/2018 at 4:42 PM, KimberStormer said:

ben-driebergen-finds-another-hidden-immunity-idol-survivor-heroes-vs-healers-vs-hustlers-finale-season-35-cbs_nzy7xo.jpg.b93b6aace26fa29b27270e1c82c9f157.jpg

No they will do that for Nick 

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For me, Davie has not disappointed at all -his part in all of the strategic moves with the Davids, his voting for Christian, all make great sense, and done, it seems, without being a jerk around camp. 

I’m really hoping he gets to Final Tribal and we get to hear his address to the group- just because for all the talk about genius this and brilliant that, I love the way he thinks.

Because he had me with, “OCTOPUS!!” and since then, there’s no one else I want to hear from.

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18 hours ago, RescueMom said:

Support in a situation that is extremely difficult? Strategy to get him to care for you within the context of the game so that he has your back? Actual friendship? One of my best friends is a married man and I am a married woman. We care deeply for each other and have zero romantic interest. Men and women can be friends and care for each other without it being romantic.

There are two types of people - the ones who believe such is impossible, and the ones who know such to be true - and the former insist on trying to mess with the lives of the latter, to make them conform to the former’s preconceptions.  :P

 

11 hours ago, mikewho said:

I don't think it's agoraphobia. I've known a couple and true agoraphobics can barely even get out of their own front door, much less TRAVEL anywhere in the first place.

 

That’s certainly true for advanced agoraphobics, but you’re talking about the end stage of the condition’s progression.  Most agoraphobics don’t just immediately develop agoraphobia in its full-blown state at the drop of a hat, though.  It can develop over time in lots of different ways - and that includes gradual escalation from generalized anxiety bouts to panic attacks, and eventually paralyzing fear.

Edited by Nashville. Reason: Typo correction
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1 hour ago, Bubbetv said:

For me, Davie has not disappointed at all -his part in all of the strategic moves with the Davids, his voting for Christian, all make great sense, and done, it seems, without being a jerk around camp. 

I’m really hoping he gets to Final Tribal and we get to hear his address to the group- just because for all the talk about genius this and brilliant that, I love the way he thinks.

Because he had me with, “OCTOPUS!!” and since then, there’s no one else I want to hear from.

I binged the entire season today (I have no life).  IMO, the top two players of the entire game are Davey and Nick and between the two, at this point, anyway, it's dead even.  Angelina, as annoying as some find her, is #3.  

Edited by Jextella.
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19 hours ago, RescueMom said:

Support in a situation that is extremely difficult? Strategy to get him to care for you within the context of the game so that he has your back? Actual friendship? One of my best friends is a married man and I am a married woman. We care deeply for each other and have zero romantic interest. Men and women can be friends and care for each other without it being romantic.

Totally 100% agree.  Why would anyone shun half the human race by not hanging out and being good friends with people of the other gender?  Seems totally unbalanced to only have friends from your own gender only.

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Very late to the party this week and most things I think have been said, but... 

On 06/12/2018 at 1:03 PM, Haleth said:

Wow, another really interesting episode!  Gabby, hoisted on her own petard. The only time she didn't cry was when she was voted out. 

On 06/12/2018 at 1:51 PM, Mark2 said:

That gave me the idea that folks saying her crying nature was an act is true, or at least she made it out to be worse than usual.

I came across something about this just recently - I can't remember if it was something IRL completely unrelated to Survivor or someone here, or elsewhere, talking about Gabby (if so, sorry for giving proper credit) or what - so this actually made perfect sense to me. So much of anxiety is about the unknown, and so much of what made Gabby cry was the lack of control and the unknowns of being in a stressful situation. It's a whole thing about imagining worst-case scenarios, and the fear of them coming true. But often when the worst thing actually happens... it's almost a relief, because it's done, so you don't have to worry any more, and it rarely feels as bad as you think it will. Gabby didn't cry when she was voted out because there wasn't anything left for her to worry about. 

On 06/12/2018 at 1:12 PM, Haleth said:

I'm not sure the original teams have any meaning anymore. Everyone is pretty much scrambling for themselves, which is making the game a lot more interesting. 

This. I'm confused at the 'the Davids gave up the advantage' talk because the Davids haven't been a real alliance of any sort for a couple of votes now. 

On 06/12/2018 at 1:40 PM, Melina22 said:

I can't remember which one said that even though they wanted to think of the others as friends, they always knew they could be plotting against them. It's fun for us to watch, but maybe not fun for them to experience, especially given their universally emotional reaction to seeing people they knew weren't secretly about to stab them in the back. So yes, I felt bad. 

It was Kara and it was so spot on why I think I'd bawl like a baby if I was ever in this situation (although, who am I kidding, my bawling would make Gabby look stoic all the way from Day 1...) - it's not the time or the distance, it's that you've had to be so guarded for so long, and here is someone who can't turn on you or vote you out. I think that would be a huge relief. 

On 06/12/2018 at 1:47 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't particularly buy this theory that Gabby is lying to the camerapeople and that her real motivation is that she was angry at Christian for having a girlfriend.  I take her at her word.  That's seeing a lot of deceit that might not be there.  She spelled it out, seeing Christian comfort his girlfriend made her realize that's how everyone sees her in this game - as Christian's thing to be comforted.  And she was likely right.  She's never been much of a liar before, she's always been transparent, so yeah I don't agree.

Yep. I keep thinking that as it was, the editors were obviously trying to give us a 'Gabby is jealous' motive for the vote and the result was... this, which means that they really didn't have much to use. 

On 06/12/2018 at 1:51 PM, truthaboutluv said:

If in all that time he never mentioned his girlfriend

There's absolutely nothing to suggest he hadn't though. They kept focussing on her and she looked emotional but not surprised at all. 

On 06/12/2018 at 8:34 PM, KimberStormer said:

OK, so when Jeff said he was bringing out Christian's girlfriend I knew exactly where the editors were going, and I was, as the kids say, totally here for it: but I don't believe it for one second.  I don't think we have any reason whatsoever to believe that Christian never told Gabby he has a girlfriend.  It's just that they left it out of the edit, specifically so they could surprise us with this.  And good work, it was a hilarious bit of creative editing, the sort of thing they've been really shining with this season.  But of course he told her about his girlfriend. 

Or just what @KimberStormer said. 

On 07/12/2018 at 2:01 AM, piewarmer said:

Speaking of which, Nick flapping his hands in an effort to release some of that emotion was adorable.

My five-year-old does this and I awwed. Everything about Nick and his dad made me Aww a little though. When Jeff was like 'it's turned you into a little kid' (or whatever) I laughed because Nick's dad is HUGE and that is exactly what Nick looked like cuddled up to him. 

On 07/12/2018 at 2:21 AM, ghoulina said:

Right??? I really didn't understand how she went from "he's comforting his girlfriend" (who was having a genuine, emotional moment) to "he's faking concern for everyone in this game and they're all eating it right up." If anything, it should have reinforced her image of Christian as a kind and supportive friend. 

I don't think it was that he was faking anything. I think it just made her realise that he was a comforting personality and that this was a huge strength and made him a threat at the end - and I agree. 

I like Gabby, so that was disappointing. I probably would have been disappointed if Christian had gone too though - although I would have seen that as the right move - so this was a tough episode. I was spoiled on the result not long after it aired but on holidays and only finally got around to watching it because I didn't think I'd enjoy it much. I didn't. Still, I like most of the folks left and it's a great season. I did move back into an Angelina-dislike corner though. Mostly I just think she's kind of immature and a bit ridiculous, but it skirts into mean-girly territory occasionally, and I noticed it tonight when she was talking about flipping the vote to Gabby. 

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4 hours ago, green said:

Totally 100% agree.  Why would anyone shun half the human race by not hanging out and being good friends with people of the other gender?  Seems totally unbalanced to only have friends from your own gender only.

Do you expect from your friends to make you feel special?

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7 hours ago, Jextella said:

I binged the entire season today (I have no life).  IMO, the top two players of the entire game are Davey and Nick and between the two, at this point, anyway, it's dead even.  Angelina, as annoying as some find her, is #3.  

 

I agree with this. I think Kara has a lot of potential though. I think her bad position is a bit more luck based than anything.

2 hours ago, himela said:

Do you expect from your friends to make you feel special?

I mean, yea. Everyone should! Don't have friends that don't treat you well lol.

4 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I did move back into an Angelina-dislike corner though. Mostly I just think she's kind of immature and a bit ridiculous, but it skirts into mean-girly territory occasionally, and I noticed it tonight when she was talking about flipping the vote to Gabby. 

I don't even remember Angelina talking about flipping the vote to Gabby. What did she say? I agree that she can sometimes go a bit mean girl, but I still mostly find her hilarious. She's just so ineffectual at, like, everything and yet she has absolutely no idea that she is. It's just the funniest thing!

Edited by peachmangosteen.
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Khaleesi (11 but turning 12 this week) thinks Gabby's face looks like a Dia de los Muertos skull, and it can't be unseen.

Sugar-Skulls-e1507158394910.jpg

home_gabby.jpg

  • Great idea, Gabby, get rid of your best friend and closest ally with so many players left.  Next, throw your glasses in the fire and kick Jeff Probst in the head.
  • Mike's boyfriend didn't even get a kiss. I think Mike's going to hear about that later. 
  • I bet Christian's relationship is great in real life, but the camera adds 10 pounds. Of awkwardness. 

*Nick and Davie remain her favorite players. 

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53 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't even remember Angelina talking about flipping the vote to Gabby. What did she say?

"That'd be sick." --proving Angelina is as adept at millennial lingo as she is at ... covert strategy?

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5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't even remember Angelina talking about flipping the vote to Gabby. What did she say? I agree that she can sometimes go a bit mean girl, but I still mostly find her hilarious. She's just so ineffectual at, like, everything and yet she has absolutely no idea that she is. It's just the funniest thing!

4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

"That'd be sick." --proving Angelina is as adept at millennial lingo as she is at ... covert strategy?

Lol. It could even have just been that - the absolute delight on her face and the phrasing. It sounded so unnatural coming out of her mouth that it kind of did feel like she was an older person trying to sound young and cool (only she was talking to Mike and Davie(?) so I don't know why). And I don't know WHY it gave me mean-girl vibes and I will admit it maybe was just that I was like 'No.....!' at the prospect of it being Gabby. 

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