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S04.E02: Kathie and Josh 2014.06.04

I've never started a topic before, so I apologize if this is wrong, but I wanted to kick this off because I am completely BAFFLED by Josh's dad.  He is such a complete selfish a-hole!!  I don't think ANY of his on-camera interactions (the one in the driveway and the text) were sincere in any way.  When he didn't know the microphone was on, that was his true self.  I don't even understand at all what he was even talking about.  I do get bad divorces.  They happen all the time.  But, the dad said (and I quote because I HAD to go back and get this) that he was "blindsided" and then he says "... As far as us having a bad divorce, if that comes out I'll put a gun to my head because I have put.... I've hid that".  Um...  what??  I am wondering if the middle of that discussion was cut out because it doesn't really make sense.  I can't even fathom what could have been so bad for him to even say that.  Despite the fact that he tried to back-pedal and say that he didn't really mean that and then called Josh dramatic, that was a really ridiculous and way out there thing to say.  And then- to NOT be at the reveal??  This guy is just disgusting to me. 

 

Besides that, Josh really needed to grow up and I think this helped him do that.  Kathie and Josh were SO co-dependent that I'm glad they both seemingly let go a little. They both looked great at the reveal and I hope they can keep it up. 

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Thanks for creating the thread! I forgot to last night. Totally OK.

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Josh should count himself lucky if a food addiction is the only problem that came out of that toxic relationship with his father.  I was surprised the father even walked out of the house to be on camera.  He must have known he'd come off badly and that's why he didn't show up for the reveal at the end.  I really hope Josh is seeing a counselor or therapist to deal with all of the effects of his dad's choices.

 

And I was really suspicious about the text before surgery.  I couldn't help but think it was someone from the show sending that so the poor kid could have some peace of mind before going under.  

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@GenL I understand your bafflement at the dad. Although it sounds like we should more rightly call him the sperm donor. What an emotionally mantipulative d-bag. I wish Josh had been given therapy instead of a vacation because he needs it. At some point in life he'll have to quit searching for his father's approval & realize he doesn't need it because he's better off without him. The dad only seemed concerned with what might come out on tv & how he'd look. His admission of love for his son felt fake & motivated by the camera. Before the skin removal surgery when Josh was sobbing on the floor & left that message I'm convinced d-bag screened the call & texted so he wouldn't have to actually speak to his child. Let it go Josh. Let him go. Some people aren't in your life for a good reason.

Kathie was incredibly positive & seemed to own the fact that her unhealthy relationship with food was the cause of her son developing a similar relationship. Overall it was a pleasant episode. I got a bit tired of Josh crying but tried to give him some leeway because I think that he's not 21 emotionally. Hopefully moving away from home & being at college will help him develop into his age more fully. That were obviously hugely codependent & IMO needed therapy in that regard as well. Still, with all that, this was an enjoyable episode.

Heidi still grates on my nerves. She seems to be very grabby with her hands, especially when she's upset or wants to make a point. She really doesn't seem to be able to roll with things quite as quickly as Chris. Maybe she hasn't learned the fine art of acting concerned for the cameras versus being pissed at things not going according to her plan. I can sometimes see Chris get angry but he controls it better. I know this show is not laid out quite how they present it so I have to think that C&H aren't staying in Colorado for the entire 3 months. Because don't they have 3 or 4 kids back in Arizona? And are we supposed to believe that people actually move in their house for 3 months at a time? I'm not buying it.

Enough with my griping though because for all the obvious fake parts & manufactured drama (you bought a candy bar with our money!) I still like this show. I'm a sucker for transformational feel good stories & think the idea of a year long project has more potential for actually making some lasting changes.

Edited by ramble.
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Ramble: I know this show is not laid out quite how they present it so I have to think that C&H aren't staying in Colorado for the entire 3 months. Because don't they have 3 or 4 kids back in Arizona? And are we supposed to believe that people actually move in their house for 3 months at a time? I'm not buying it.

 

This reminds me of something else I wanted to say.  I also don't think that the contestants actually move in with the Powell's.  They have a family and, I am sure, have to do normal family things during the day to take care of the kids and house, etc.  When Heidi said she wanted to get on a plane to confront Josh my first thought was "what about your 4-week old infant??".  Obviously, she didn't go but it still threw me off.

 

Also, this week and last week- the scenes where Heidi approaches Chris with a problem are so hilarious.  Obviously, they're staged but Heidi is a TERRIBLE actress!  It doesn't come off as organic AT ALL.  I find them very humorous.

 

But, overall I agree.  I like this show because it IS a year-long process.  I like to think that the contestants actually learn something and manage to stick with it.  I wish they were a little more transparent on what actually happens through-out the year and drop some of the pretenses (like them living with the Powell's).  But, I still enjoy it overall. 

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I am actually very angry at Kathie at the way she just seemed to throw Josh to the wolves with the moving out issue. 

 

Of course he was going to be blindsided.  She was the one who created the toxic food envrionment that Josh was forced to grow up with as her "only" companion for 21 years.  She created the world in which Josh was pretty much forced to be her whole world and her, his.  He apparently was a live-in housekeeper as well as being a feeding partner.  She didn't seem to have the intestinal fortitute to stand up to her dick of an ex-husband when he would tell Josh there was "no room" for him on trips with his new family and didn't seem to want to confront the dick when they were at his house either, in fact she seemed incredible weak with him. 

 

However,  when she decided it was time to live alone, have fun, find some "Prince Charming" to screw, it was ... bye bye Josh, don't let the door hit you on the ass.  She gave lip service to how shocked she was at his reaction but didn't seem to really give a shit now that her life was on track and she had a may-un in her life.  What did she think he was going to do?  A jig on his way to the local real estate office to find an apartment?  And oh yeah, great idea to want him to find and furnish an apartment during a year-long process where he won't even be there for months at a time - great use of money. 

 

I really felt sorry for Josh and to have everyone all up his ass over candy and soda made me want to reach through the TV and slap Tammy Faye mommy, little chris and that....wife of his.   Sorry, Powells, if your plan includes never ever having a Snickers and a Dr. Pepper again, the majority of your clients will fail.  Maybe you should have been harder on mama who thought that because she had good man now, she could eat a few hundred more good meals - no issues were solved there I see. 

 

I hope Josh really does find himself and find a way to be happy - the best thing he can do is put them all in his rearview mirror and send cards on holidays.

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I watched this show for the first time last night.  First, I saw the previous episode with the entitled brat that wanted everything handed to him on a silver platter, forgetting that he requested to be on a WEIGHT LOSS show. (ugh!).  Then, I saw this episode.

 

I must say I was impressed by the Mom. I thought for sure they'd both have some co-dependencies going on, but she seemed to move on pretty quickly and is enjoying her life as her own person now.  Good for her!

 

I thought the Dad was an unbelievable jerk. I too noticed he wasn't at the finale.  What shocked me was when he said he'd put a gun to his head and then turned around and accused his son of being dramatic.  What?!  Dude... what the fuck?

 

Having said that, I see his point, though. The son needs to move on and not try to force his Dad's love. It isn't there, it won't be there. Get therapy, move on.  I thought it was disgusting the show kept trying to get the son to confront him about it.  You want to really help him? Hire a therapist. Stop trying to put him in a position to get hurt.

 

Speaking of disgusting, I do NOT agree with the whole skin removal surgery thing! It seemed like these folks barely hit their goal weight after what, 9 months? Then they're approved for this surgery?  Horrible, horrible medical advice! 9 months on a TV show is not enough time to maintain their new lifestyle. In my opinion, they should be maintaining a weight for quite some time before that surgery is attempted.

 

And another gripe, the whole "oooohh you missed your unrealistic goal by 1lb! I'm so disappointed!"  Fuck you, trainer. What kind of response is that?!  Celebrate the wins and the weight loss, don't act like missing an unrealistic goal by 1lb is some sort of epic failure!

 

I'm not sure if I'll continue to watch. Both the trainers annoy me.

 

ETA:

However,  when she decided it was time to live alone, have fun, find some "Prince Charming" to screw, it was ... bye bye Josh, don't let the door hit you on the ass.

 

 

Oh, yeah, that did piss me off.  As surprised as I was to see the Mom independent and ready to live her own life, this was uncalled for.  You don't just throw a kid out of the house, no matter what the age.  You give them warning, you teach them what they need to do, you guide them, you help them.  Parenting doesn't stop because you found someone to share your bed.

Edited by LadyArcadia.
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I wish they were a little more transparent on what actually happens through-out the year and drop some of the pretenses (like them living with the Powell's).  But, I still enjoy it overall.

 

 

I have researched the processes behind EWL. I am not involved with it, but from what I gathered, this is how it works:

 

  1. Casting - Some (not sure of exact numbers) of the participants are actually rejects from other weight loss and/or Eyeworks shows. This is pretty standard for many reality shows, so it's not that surprising. I know that at least one girl from last season was a TBL reject who had tried out with her sister. (The one who was adopted and worked at a ballet school.) I don't think that many are actually chosen via letters to Chris Powell or compelling audition videos, which kind of renders the whole "You wrote me a letter and I choose YOU to go on this journey!" thing as a bunch of insincere bullshit, imo.
  2. Interviews - All potential participants go through at least 2 sets of interviews. One usually takes place right after the casting call auditions or may be a scheduled callback for those chosen who didn't attend a casting call. In some occasions, the participants will be flown to X city to meet with casting agents or TPTB. During these interviews, they grill you about your past, vet out your plots, and screen you for red flags such as criminal history, hidden kids, etc.
  3. Selection - A group of ~20 are selected as finalists. All of these people attend boot camp. Some are dropped or leave for health reasons (remember the guy with the heart issues who was almost booted a couple seasons ago?). Others may have issues with work or family and simply cannot reconsile them, so they may leave as well. Generally, the ~12 that have the most compelling stories will be selected for phase 2 and those are the ones that we see on the show.
  4. Phase 2  - I think that the general pissiness with Ty from last episode and with Josh and his needing extra help after phase 1 was caused by these guys taking advantage of the extended phase 1 and then wanting to go back home to....nothing, really. The stakes are a bit higher now because after 3 seasons, they have figured out that a 1-2 week vacation to California followed by the logistical nightmare of toting Chris and the crew to various cities is simply not paying off. The participants develop an unhealthy reliance on Chris as a part of their day-to-day lives and many of them do not truly learn to stand on their own. That's why there were always Phase 2 and 3 "surprises" where they would lose 5 lbs or gain 20 lbs and act all indignant when Chris called them out on it.
  5. Middle Journey - This is a story arc that takes place between late Phase 1 and early Phase 3. It usually results in an epiphany and a resolution. Other times, it backfires horribly as seen in Ty's case from episode 1. The $400 bill from episode 2 was an attempt to create this sort of story arc in the last episode, but it was pretty blah to me. In Josh's case, I believe that Chris and Heidi and/TBTP were simply holding Josh up so he wouldn't flunk out. If they were still reeling from Ty's leaving, that could explain why they were so quick to take Josh in. I am also wondering what other surprises may await us viewers this season. I think that the new and improved Phase 1 may lead to increased backslides and drop out rates as the season progreses. I also expect to see more of the "living with Chris and Heidi" bit as time progresses.
  6. End - Many of them get skin removal surgery and various other procedures. Kathie had some dental work done (which I think may have been a factor in why she went to Arizona during Phase 3.) Did anyone else notice that Josh had a skin condition that seemed to be improving during his stay with Chris and Heidi? Methinks that it was more than just "we're concerned blah blah blah."

 

In regards to this episode, I hope that the show sticks around long enough to hit its stride. I still prefer it to TBL and I hope that it avoids turning into TBL lite or something like it. Basically, EWL fills a niche in weight loss programming. You have to be bland enough or special enough not to be cast on TBL, but you can't be unhealthy enough to be cast on "My 600lb Life" or any of the other TLC/Discovery weight loss shows. The participants have to be likeable or have neatly packaged sob stories that Chris can easily hype up (former athletes, dancers, cheerleaders, or those with special talents, fucked up childhoods, absentee parents, blah blah).

 

I think that next season is going to be couples since they were casting for couples in the spring. More wedding crap, gag me. Aren't the Bachelor and the Bachelorette enough to fill that quota? Or is ABC wanting to steal some of TLC's wedding fever hype?

Edited by auntie thesis.
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Oh Dear God I so felt for that woman asked to take her shirt off on The View with studio audience. I really wish she had said, "Umm, I'm not wearing a bra." That is just so awful. It's not like all couldn't see she is seriously overweight WITH her shirt ON Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. And in front of her adult son. OH God. I know it's not new, but some are more painful to watch than others.

 

I felt sick when they urged the son to contact and "confront" his father which had him in tears and it just made me sick. I so felt for the son. He didnt' need to do that, upset himself more, set himself up for hurt and give the father douchebag that power. It made me mad. Did a licensed therapist suggest that? Or was it concocted for drama by  TPTB?

 

And forcing the father to take the son on the vacations when he didn't want to wouldn't have been sweet fun for the kid, I'm guessing.


I felt happy (and sad that she couldn't do it before) for the mom when she said that she could finally cross her legs, "like a lady." Awwww

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I too hated the whole "daddy issues" drama. It felt really forced. I would have been okay if they had shown Josh hashing his issues out in therapy and then done a BSOJ giving us some details about the situation with his father towards the end of the show.

 

The View segment was another bit of ABC hype. I knew it was an old episode because Joy and Bitsy were still there and I was like "OMFG, The View has been circling the drain for longer than I thought!".

 

I really, really wish that they wouldn't have brought Ray to visit Kathie pre-surgery, in front of Josh. The whole scenario was way messed up and as a viewer, I'd rather not have seen the after effects of it all. Especially with Heidi and her fake as bad actress bs over it all.

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$400 worth of mini-bar items at a tourist destination like Tahiti probably amounts to Kathie's nuts and maybe half a Diet Coke.  Seriously, though, my first thought when she suggested it was Josh who went crazy with the pina coladas was that she was trying to blame him since he wasn't there.  Turns out she was telling the truth!

 

Note for the Dad/sperm donor next time you talk to someone with a camera crew outside - they're probably wearing a mic and recording everything you say.  Your grown son is trying to give you a heads up that the fambly history is about to be ABC prime time, and you (1) threaten to put a gun to your head if the details come out, and (2) accuse him of being the dramatic one.  Are you the pot or the kettle in this scenario? And just what did Pops not want to come out?  That they had a messy divorce?  I think there's more to the story there.

 

I had the same thought about Kathie on The View.  Obviously, they knew in advance what was going on.  I like to think the show would be just as entertaining without all of the creative editing, but part of the intrigue of watching is picking out things like this.

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I didn't know what was going to happen, but I'm obese and just happen to have my sports bra on so I can take my shirt off and say I didn't know that was coming?

 

I'm guessing dad did something super terrible if he had that reaction at "the truth coming out." Clearly it's something that he doesn't want the world and the woman du jour to know. "Gun to the head" and in the next breath, "Don't be dramatic." What a colossal manipulative asshole. 

 

Did they say how tall these folks are? I wish they would because I always wonder about that.

Edited by ari333.
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Did they say how tall these folks are? I wish they would because I always wonder about that.

 

I was curious about that as well, especially after Kathie said she couldn't cross her legs at 255 pounds.  When I started my "weight loss journey" last year I weighed 30 pounds more than that and was able to cross my legs "like a lady" (I'm the same age as her).  Granted, it's a lot easier now that I've lost 85 pounds, but I was able to do so. But if she's a lot shorter than I am, that may make a difference.

 

I agree with the comments that Josh just needs to see a therapist and write off his dad.  Sometimes, you just have to give up on getting people to care about you, even if they are related to you.  However, I was impressed that he was able to get his act together after falling off the wagon, so to speak.  I've had to do that a couple of different times over the past year.  Sometimes, you just need a damn candy bar (or ice cream, etc.).  The important thing is to say to yourself, "okay, I've had my break, time to get going again." And then do it.

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Am I cray or did new bf "Ray" look a lot like first husband?

 

And I found it a little sad that she said that after she met Ray that she hadn't been that happy in 21 years.... 21 YEARS. Since the husband left?

 

Did Josh have a job? Because to turn him out into an apartment, he needs a job and it does take time to find an apartment. After 21 years , she couldn't wait more than 30 days and she seemed kind of iffy on wanting to give the 30 days. So if felt like to me,  "hey kid, you were here when I needed you, but I don't need you anymore so hit the bricks and be sure you don't have any feelings about it."

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It's not your money Heidi. 

Why does it matter?  It wasn't HIS money was the point.  Her point stands, what he did was ungrateful and rude.  Candy and soda doesn't cost that much, you could spend your money on it before, buy your own crappy ass food.

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If you're going to sneak candy, soda and pina coladas, I'd think you'd want to pay cash and not charge it to the room where it costs 10 times more and someone else sees the bill and gets to bitch about it. Not sure why it showed up on mom's room bill though.

 

Well, dammit all to hell, now I want a pina colada. 

 

Why were Josh's cheeks so super red in an uneven, blotchy sort of way?


Wow, I really actively loathe Heidi even more than I loathe Jillian from TBL and that's saying something. And I'm not even sure why.

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Why were Josh's cheeks so super red in an uneven, blotchy sort of way?

Wow, I really actively loathe Heidi even more than I loathe Jillian from TBL and that's saying something. And I'm not even sure why.

 

 

I think that Josh had psorasis or something. I noticed scars and sores on his arms and legs during the phase 1 workout scenes. That might explain the blotchiness on his face as well, although he could be one of the those guys that gets red when he is hot.

 

I don't loathe Heidi in the same way I loathe Jillian. Yet. I don't really dislike Heidi as much as I think that she comes across as a bad actress in most of her scenes. She's very flat and whiny and Chris is like "Ok, calm down....". It's unnecessary filler to me.

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Why does it matter?  It wasn't HIS money was the point.  Her point stands, what he did was ungrateful and rude.  Candy and soda doesn't cost that much, you could spend your money on it before, buy your own crappy ass food.

 

She made such a point of harping on it being their money when it's really not. I wasn't implying that she didn't have a reason to be annoyed.

Edited by jonesingjay.
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nd another gripe, the whole "oooohh you missed your unrealistic goal by 1lb! I'm so disappointed!"  Fuck you, trainer. What kind of response is that?!  Celebrate the wins and the weight loss, don't act like missing an unrealistic goal by 1lb is some sort of epic failure!

This.  I know from experience another hour and a good poop would correct that one pound.  That is so why I hatewatch this show.  They don't give heights.  They don't talk about BMI or account for the increased muscle which is more dense than fat.  Why not an occaisional waist measurement?

 

Why would the stocked mini bar even be in the room? 

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BMI isn't really an accurate measure of anything. Or so some claim.

 

During the phase 3 reveal skin surgery decision of doom thing, they give percentages and weights. It's the same set up that TBL used for years. You can do your own reverse BMI math that way, if that's something of interest to you.

 

During the Charita/Ty episode, they did give a mention of Ty having an obscene amount of muscle. Can't remember if they gave an exact amount or not. Most younger guys will have a lot of muscle anyway, as will former athletes. That's why both EWL and TBL put such an emphasis on recruiting former athletes. Most of the guys are former football, baseball players, bodybuilders, or something along those lines. If they didn't play in college or high school, then they are sports obsessed and have a goal of playing again or playing with or coaching their kids.

 

Same goes for ladies. Most of the ladies will be former athletes, dancers, cheerleaders or models. At the very least, they will have been thin or close to it at some point in their lives. Very few women who have been overweight their entire lives are cast. If they are, they tend to be very young and are cast because of their sob story potential (terrible accident, wounded by a bad relationship, dead or absentee parent(s)).

 

Mostly they want people who already have a shifted muscle to fat ratio because those people will have an easier time losing weight at the fast rate that these shows demand. Someone who has never been fit OR isn't very young (under 25) is going to have a difficult time losing 1lb/day or more. That's my take on it and that's why I hatewatch via DVR or online these days. Nothing about it is real and I feel that these shows are not really about the people or their journeys anymore. It's all about holding out unrealistic standards of weight loss, fitness and beauty (TBL) and unrealistic promises of healed relationships and dreams coming true via weight loss and surgery (EWL). I'm a sucker for the backstories though. That's why I continue to stick it out with both shows.

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I know I am being a jerk because I am sure they are great people but the whole "we are standing in line for The View" is so beyond me. I mean seriously? Do producers think everyone watching is an idiot?  "I can't believe the people we totally admire and need to help us lose a ton of weight are at the exact same show we are waiting for!"

 

but of course, I'll probably still watch.

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As a parent of two young men, I was annoyed at the "Finally move out of the house after all these years"  stuff.   REALLY?   He's 21, not 31!  

 

And yeah, acting like The View thing was a big surprise didn't fool anyone. 

 

The weigh in where they said to Kathie "You only lost 20 pounds in three months!"  was ridiculous.   Any physician will tell you that sensible weight loss means about 5 pounds a month.  In the real world, 20 pounds in three months is amazing.  Most people either hit a plateau, or the weightloss slows down a lot after an initial loss. 

 

Overall, what I didn't like was al the SHAME.   Shame on you for not being self-supporting at age 21!  Shame on you for not losing enough weight fast enough!  Take off your shirt so we can humiliate you by showing your rolls of fat to a bunch of strangers.  And SHAME SHAME SHAME for succumbing to the temptation of candy bars that are right there in your room!  SHAME!

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The weigh in where they said to Kathie "You only lost 20 pounds in three months!"  was ridiculous.   Any physician will tell you that sensible weight loss means about 5 pounds a month.  In the real world, 20 pounds in three months is amazing.  Most people either hit a plateau, or the weightloss slows down a lot after an initial loss. 

 

Overall, what I didn't like was al the SHAME.   Shame on you for not being self-supporting at age 21!  Shame on you for not losing enough weight fast enough!  Take off your shirt so we can humiliate you by showing your rolls of fat to a bunch of strangers.  And SHAME SHAME SHAME for succumbing to the temptation of candy bars that are right there in your room!  SHAME!

 

Word McWord. I thought Kathie was one of the more real participants they've had on this show. I know people like her in real life and I thought she looked pretty good throughout her "year" unlike many of the participants who end up looking sick by the midpoint of phase 2. I really wanted to tell Heidi to STFU during Kathie's weigh-ins. Kathie was in her 50s and working damn hard. Sure, she could have worked harder but maybe boinking Ray was enough exercise for her, lol.

 

I thought that the whole drama with Josh was screwed up. The kid is 21 and obviously had no concept of life outside of living at home. Did he have a job? Was he going to school? Still receiving legal financial assistance from his dad? On disability? No one said anything about how he was supposed to support himself, let alone finance an apartment, pay bills, and what have you. It was just "Oh, btw....you're on your own when we get back to NC! Sucka!" Then they all feign shock that he had a meltdown over it. Sure, he's 21. Emotionally, he seemed to be more like 8-10, still stuck in the gaze of adoration for his loving, single mommy. He was living in a world where TV, pizza, and a stunted and fucked up relationship with his piece of shit father seemed to be the core of everything. Then they all turn on him and say, "Welp, you've lost 100+ lbs in "90" days while living in a facility 2,000 miles from home...time to go home and get an apartment. No more mommy!"

 

He threw a hissy and then they were all like "Oh, poor thing. Come to AZ and live with us for however long it takes to make you into a self-sufficient M-A-N while Mommy has some happy fun time with ex's doppelganger!" So what does that solve exactly? Oh right, not a goddamn thing. Because as soon as he was supposedly on his own in Tahiti, he's eating candy bars and drinking pina coladas. No one confronts him about it, instead going to Mommy and giving her the 8th degree while he goes home to live on his own (which I don't believe was anything other than a set-up for Mommy to go to AZ for some cosmetic/medical procedures).

 

Josh pinged my gaydar a bit, although I wasn't quite sure if he was or not. I don't like to judge people. He seemed really immature. I thought that the real reason for his weight gain and the utterly fucked up, should have been BSOJ'd relationship with his dad was that Josh was gay and his dad wasn't okay with it. That would explain a lot about why he didn't seem to want Josh around and why most of the issues weren't really about the divorce (which took place when Josh was a baby and couldn't have possibly remembered it). They seemed to be tap-dancing around a big pink elephant in the room most of the time, making the conversations awkward.

 

*shrug*

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Agree with so many points above. I liked Kathie, but I thought she enmeshed Josh; Then when  she was ready... "Hey, buddy, hit the road. You're a man. "

 

Total wordy Mc word on all the shame. I'm shocked that they don't measure their waists (and hips and bust) because hey THAT'D be good ole shame tv! They could give their heights though for cryin out loud.

 

I think the shame is a huge part of why somewhat overweight people become obese people. They are made to feel so ashamed that they don't want to go out, be seen exercising or walking, or even participating in life; HIDE IN THE HOUSE! You are unacceptable! And what does that leave them with? Sitting at home, likely sedentary, likely lonely,  likely doing what.... to medicate themselves? Eating..

 

Did Kathie have a lisp?  Or was it a problem with her teeth? Not ragging on her; Just an observation.

 

And did Josh seem to have a sort of lisp at times, but it would come and go? Or maybe I'm cray. He pinged me slightly too, as mentioned, but my 'dar is not good and "not that there's anything wrong with that" [/seinfeld] But if I had to guess  - the dad would find something wrong with that... if it were the case... and we don't know, so let me shutty. Whatever. He had a very cute, attractive face, imo, at the reveal.

Edited by ari333.
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Josh pinged my gaydar a bit, although I wasn't quite sure if he was or not. I don't like to judge people. He seemed really immature. I thought that the real reason for his weight gain and the utterly fucked up, should have been BSOJ'd relationship with his dad was that Josh was gay and his dad wasn't okay with it. That would explain a lot about why he didn't seem to want Josh around and why most of the issues weren't really about the divorce (which took place when Josh was a baby and couldn't have possibly remembered it). They seemed to be tap-dancing around a big pink elephant in the room most of the time, making the conversations awkward.

 

 

I agree with your whole post, but yeah- Josh pinged my gaydar too.  Not that mine is all that sophisticated, but that could explain his relationship with his dad.  But, the dad specifically mentioned the divorce and hiding something about it (unless there was creative editing and that wasn't what he was hiding").  I don't know, whatever the reasons, that is one messed-up relationship.

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And may I say a big, "Fuck you" to the dad? Does he not realize how many people would love to have a son adore them and want to spend time with them? ASS.

Edited by ari333.
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Total wordy Mc word on all the shame. I'm shocked that they don't measure their waists (and hips and bust) because hey THAT'D be good ole shame tv! They could give their heights though for cryin out loud.

 

I think the shame is a huge part of why somewhat overweight people become obese people. They are made to feel so ashamed that they don't want to go out, be seen exercising or walking, or even participating in life; HIDE IN THE HOUSE! You are unacceptable! And what does that leave them with? Sitting at home, likely sedentary, likely lonely,  likely doing what.... to medicate themselves? Eating..

 

 

The shaming is a big reason why I quit watching TBL. I can't stand it when the trainers rag and rage on the contestants about how ASHAMED they should be; how BAD it must feel; how AWFUL their kids, SOs, and parents must feel to see them LIKE THAT, and so on.

 

It's the re-enforcement of stereotypes that bug the shit out of me, though. For example, all overweight people are fast food fiends. All overweight people drink fucktons of soda and sugary drinks. All overweight people are stashing hoardes of junk food under the bed/in the drawers/wherever. Statistically, that may be true for a large portion of us...but it isn't the case for every single one of us. It's just the best narrative device to service their needs for the show. Bashing McD's is cool and everyone knows that shit is bad for you. Low hanging artificial fruit, meet self-righteous crossfitting picker!

 

Yet for those who watch via the ABC app for iDevices are treated to a McD's commercial EVERY 15 FUCKING MINUTES. One of the commercials features a cartoon woman who rewards herself for taking the dog for a run by going to McD's to get a iced frappamochacofalatte thing. *head scratch of sarcasm*

 

I also remember Chris' stunt last season when he barfed up a value meal on camera to prove that "McD's is bad, mmmkay?" WTF ever. Shit's been done before, and EWL ain't no Morgan Spurlock project. So STFU and stick the righteous indignation over fast food where the sun don't shine, show.

 

Kathie and Josh ate plenty of fast food. So what? The main causes for their weight gain weren't the 10,000 Big macs and 8,000 slices of pizza washed down with a vat of Pepsi; it was a host of psychological issues brought on by a bad marriage, an ugly divorce, an unhealthy interdependent mother-son relationship, a shitfest of a father-son whatever the fuck it was (I hesitate to call it a relationship) and some other factors (maybe hidden sexuality, physical maladies, God knows what else). Eating excess calories does cause weight gain, but it is not usually the primary cause. Blaming excess consumption for weight gain is like blaming a shovel for digging a hole. The shovel is just the tool being used by a person to do a job. And so the food is the tool that some people use to cover up and cope with deeper issues like those listed above.

 

RE: Josh and the pinging

 

I couldn't tell if he was really gay or just very immature. He seemed decent enough during his talking head segments, but there were moments with Chris and then all of the blubbering any time his dad was mentioned that just led me to think that maybe he had at least one bent wrist, if you catch my drift. I really hope that he got some counseling to deal with his daddy issues. He seemed like a nice young man and wasn't bad looking at the end. Although he did have that big head thing going on.

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My 'dar is pretty well calibrated, but Josh wasn't really pinging it.  Still, I wouldn't exactly be shocked to find out he was friends with Dorothy.  Mama had the lisp, too, so maybe it was just inherited.

 

Whatever his dad didn't want aired, it wasn't about a divorce due to irreconcilable differences.  Some bad shit went down, I guarantee you.  That, or everyone was making a mountain out of a molehill for television.

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The gay/immature conversation caused this thought to pop into my head: Is Bad Dad's "I'll shoot myself" secret that he abused baby Josh? It would tie together a lot of the weirdness we saw - divorce, estrangement, daddy issues, awkward reconciliation, paranoia about being found out, mom waiting right outside the door during the visit. Also, Ick, if TPTB knew this and pushed it anyway.

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I really wish that they hadn't have included the bit with Josh's dad. It was ugly to watch. I felt for the kid since his dad seemed to be a douchebag of the highest grade. Why confront him? Why talk to him? It all seemed so terrible and painful. If Kathie wanted to confront her ex-husband, she should have done that. Josh wasn't ready to confront Daddy Dearest, imo. 

 

I hope that in the future, they leave stuff like this in the therapists office, BSOJ'd and that's it. No more ugly emotional tap-dancing scenarios where a person suffers horribly just for the sake of show.

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Why confront him? Why talk to him?

 

So that Josh could stop wondering about whether or not his father actually wanted him around.  He got a reality slap in the face concerning his father and maybe now he can stop hoping for a relationship and move on with his life without needing his father's approval or acceptance.  The quicker Josh stops needing either of those things, the quicker he'll stop eating himself into oblivion to make up for it.

 

I didn't see it as suffering at all.  I see it as being very helpful to Josh as well as other viewers who may be punishing themselves with overeating due to toxic relationships in their life.  Josh was sticking his head in the sand concerning his father in the hopes that one day his dad would come around.  In fact part of the reason he started with the show was to prove to his father he could do it.  By the end of the show, it seemed to me like he'd proved to himself he could do it without his father being around to see it.  I would venture that is extremely empowering for him.  

 

Josh and his mother were emotional eaters if there ever were any.  It would seem disconnected if the show didn't show them making some kind of emotional discovery that helped change their mind and put them on the right path to losing weight.  More often then not there is some kind of emotional breakthrough when someone starts losing weight where they figure out WHY they overeat to begin with.  

 

I see no problem with the show handling these issues in the course of 2 hours.  Otherwise you'd have a show full of people who just suddenly decided to lose weight and it melted off.  SURPRISE!  

That is unhelpful to the people on the show as well as the viewers.  Just like TBL makes it look like these people lose 100 lbs in 3 months, it would be just as unrealistic to ignore the fact that there is some seriously emotional crap that takes place while they are losing the weight.

Edited by CaughtOnTape.
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Is Bad Dad's "I'll shoot myself" secret that he abused baby Josh?

k2p2- that is exactly what I thought.  Or possibly violence against the mother.  Either way,  it was bad enough for Daddy Dearest to really hide out. 

 

In the old place, someone smarter than me would usually search public records and find all kinds of backstory.  Maybe, we'll learn more.

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I see no problem with the show handling these issues in the course of 2 hours.  Otherwise you'd have a show full of people who just suddenly decided to lose weight and it melted off.  SURPRISE!  

That is unhelpful to the people on the show as well as the viewers.  Just like TBL makes it look like these people lose 100 lbs in 3 months, it would be just as unrealistic to ignore the fact that there is some seriously emotional crap that takes place while they are losing the weight.

 

I didn't like the way that it was handled and I didn't appreciate the drawn out phone call at the end. I thought that it would have been better portrayed as a BSOJ. That is my opinion.

 

The initial confrontation seemed to be very ugly. I would have felt it to be more appropriate if it had taken place in a therapist's office or in a more controlled setting supervised by professionals. Not at the dad's house, in his driveway or the family van.

 

Yes, many of us have serious emotional crap to deal with. There are less ham-fisted ways of going about dealing with these sorts of issues on fakeality television, imo. I did not need to see Josh having a nervous breakdown on camera to know that his daddy issues were waaaaaay fucked up. I prefered the method used on A&E's old weight loss show "Heavy" where the participants went to counseling sessions, both group and individual, on camera. I think that is a better way of going about it in some cases, especially when the participant is young and obviously ill-prepared to grapple with the ugliness ala Josh and the sperm donor.

 

 

k2p2- that is exactly what I thought.  Or possibly violence against the mother.  Either way,  it was bad enough for Daddy Dearest to really hide out. 

 

In the old place, someone smarter than me would usually search public records and find all kinds of backstory.  Maybe, we'll learn more.

 

I was thinking this same thing. I'm not in the mood to dig up dirt today. ;)

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Yes, many of us have serious emotional crap to deal with. There are less ham-fisted ways of going about dealing with these sorts of issues on fakeality television, imo. I did not need to see Josh having a nervous breakdown on camera to know that his daddy issues were waaaaaay fucked up. I prefered the method used on A&E's old weight loss show "Heavy" where the participants went to counseling sessions, both group and individual, on camera. I think that is a better way of going about it in some cases, especially when the participant is young and obviously ill-prepared to grapple with the ugliness ala Josh and the sperm donor.

 

The father stated on national television that he was going to shoot himself in the head if anyone knew anything about how his marriage ended.  I doubt he would've willingly walked into a therapists office.  And considering Josh was 21 and prone to having nervous breakdowns about just about everything, I didn't see the harm.  Sometimes people don't wait to save their emotional breakdowns for a therapists office.  If this show is slammed for not being realistic about just about everything else, at least the emotions these people experience are real.  It struck me that the only way Josh was going to get any kind of closure or reaction from his father at all was to do exactly what he did....blindside him with it, camera crew in tow.  

 

Ham-fisted?  Maybe.  But it got the point across.  Not everything is wrapped up in a nice bow in front of a qualified professional sometimes.  Roll with the punches, Kid.  It's gonna get a lot worse if Josh doesn't start learning how to deal with toxic people in his life.

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I have a different take on it. Josh came across as a big baby who blamed others for his weight instead of taking responsibility himself.

So his dad wasn't in his life? There are LOTS of kids being raised by single parents. He should be lucky that he had 1 parent that loved him (more than some of us had).

Then the big meltdown about moving out? God, at 21 that would be heaven. And the meltdown before surgery because mom has a boyfriend? Ok, she has to live the rest of her life alone because that's what YOU want. Bad enough she put her life in hold 21 yrs for you, Ungrateful.

LOL that she had a sports bra on but was "surprised" by the View.

And count me in as a Heidi- hater. It's like when Dr Phil brings Robin on stage to talk. She wasn't part of the package when you signed the tv contract.

I found it annoying how she was doing kettle bells so soon after giving birth. And that fake blond chemical hair, fake tan & heavy makeup does not scream "healthy" to me. JMHO

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And count me in as a Heidi- hater. It's like when Dr Phil brings Robin on stage to talk. She wasn't part of the package when you signed the tv contract.

I found it annoying how she was doing kettle bells so soon after giving birth. And that fake blond chemical hair, fake tan & heavy makeup does not scream "healthy" to me. JMHO

 

 

My gawd!!! Heidi is the Robin of EWL! I never realized it until just now! Wowza.

 

Heidi has had issues in the past. She was bulemic at one point when she was younger. There was a related sob story about this last season. Her pregnancy workouts were annoying. Ugh....I know we are going to be seeing plenty of her proud mama warrior woman bs this season. *rolls eyes*

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Heidi also made the comment about how "Kathie is getting smaller & I'm (Heidi) getting bigger". Ummm, you are pg, you are supposed to get "bigger". I thought that was an odd thing to say.

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Heidi also made the comment about how "Kathie is getting smaller & I'm (Heidi) getting bigger". Ummm, you are pg, you are supposed to get "bigger". I thought that was an odd thing to say.

She also made a comment and used the term "this baby".  The tone sounded really resentful.  She seemed a hellava lot more concerned with some damn mini bar bill than her baby. 

 

Heidi strikes me as really cold and judgey, while not bringing anything to the show.

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Hey guys, it's Josh from this episode! --- for some reason I stumbled upon this thread and read through. LOTS of opinions I see, but i guess it's what I get for putting my life out on national television. 

First, dad I are in great terms. The show was a rough patch, although we have worked through everything and we are better than ever.

Second, mom is 5'2 and i'm 5'8

Third, mom and ray are married now and happier than ever

Fourth, the show had a lot of behind the scenes drama that no one saw. It was extremely emotional. Production was tough on all of us. 

Fifth, I have moved away from NC, now living in Atlanta with a great job and take care of myself fully.

The show really helped jump start my life, so i am extremely grateful for that. 

Any other questions?! 

xoxo,

Josh Morton

Edited by JoshEWL.
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