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S01.E07: I Dare You

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After discovering she might not know Rome like she thought she did, Regina is put in charge of making important decisions for him. Meanwhile, Gary tries to convince Maggie he will be there for her no matter what, and Katherine discovers she has a new admirer.

Airing 11/07/2018.

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I think my favorite character might be Gary's dog...

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Delilah and Eddie are annoying, bet Catherine would be thrilled to know what he is doing.

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I've been sitting here, trying to explain into words how I felt about this episode.

I don't really know what to say, to be honest.

Just...no....to everything that happened. No to Regina/Rome working things out immediately. No to Gary trying to force Maggie into chemo and no to Maggie for already being shown to change her mind (although her doubts make sense so I'm a little less critical of her). No to Delilah/Eddie. No to Katherine's admirer (NOT no to Katherine getting some sex from someone eventually, but no to the guy that's interested in her). 

Just....no. 

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So is Katherine going to end up having an affair with low-rent Trevor Noah?

And why is Regina so clueless about what do do when her husband collapses on the bathroom floor in pain? I know she isn’t a doctor, but shouting, What’s wrong, Rome? Or What do I do?  What do I do? to Maggi sounds like something a child would say, not a grown a woman. And then her interaction with the doctor was laughable yet sad. I hate the way Regina’s character is written. 

That is all so far. Still watching the ep...

ETA: Glad Rome only had a kid each stone and not something more serious. But it was almost medical negligence for the doctors not do do any imaging while he was drinking the charcoal but still screaming in pain. 

James Roday has a great singing voice. I love that he was doing movies from the ‘I’m Still Standing’ video.  He was always doing things like that on Psych. And I liked the hospital scene between him and Rome. They have good friend chemistry.  Then again, James Roday has good chemistry with all of the characters on the show. Except Katherine. 

Edited by topanga.
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I have been to Boston several times. There are many placed to eat so why does this show make it seem like the ramen noodle place is the only one?

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8 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I have been to Boston several times. There are many placed to eat so why does this show make it seem like the ramen noodle place is the only one?

Maybe it’s new?

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There is nothing about this episode that makes me want to watch the next one. I just don’t care about the characters anymore. It’s like the show tried to cram two seasons worth of story into 7 episodes and I have no idea where they go from here. Everything either gets resolved to quickly or is dropped for so long I don’t care anymore. 

Danny’s story is the perfect example. We found he has a crush on a boy in the second episode then he mostly disappears for 4 episodes.  Then the story picks right back up and I don’t really care anymore. It is the same with whatever the hell Ashley is doing. 

Everything just feels so disjointed. Katherine feels like she is on a completely different show. Her scene with Gary felt like it was tacked on just to try and make it fit. 

Last week it was mentioned that Gary is the emotional support for all of his friends and I really noticed that this episode. In this one day he pressured Maggie, opened a lemonade stand, went to the hospital and diagnosed the problem before the doctors, sang at a ramen place, painted graffiti on the side of a very tall building, pressured Maggie again, supported Danny at the arcade date, and then ran in to Katherine at the ramen place. I’m surprised he didn’t show up at the ultrasound  

Rome and Regina were the one story I was interested it and now it feels like that is resolved. 

Edited by Dani.
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im still amazed that their are no signs anywhere of Patriots Fans.  what the show couldn't get permission to use any patriot paraphernalia?  Its just Red Sox stuff too funny but not realistic at all.   

Edited by meeeechiganman. Reason: spelling
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Delilah and Eddie are ridiculous for thinking they are going to keep the secret that he's the baby's father. 

Is there no pain medication they could have given Rome? 

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4 hours ago, topanga said:

So is Katherine going to end up having an affair with low-rent Trevor Noah?

And why is Regina so clueless about what do do when her husband collapses on the bathroom floor in pain? I know she isn’t a doctor, but shouting, What’s wrong, Rome? Or What do I do?  What do I do? to Maggi sounds like something a child would say, not a grown a woman. And then her interaction with the doctor was laughable yet sad. I hate the way Regina’s character is written. 

That is all so far. Still watching the ep...

ETA: Glad Rome only had a kid each stone and not something more serious. But it was almost medical negligence for the doctors not do do any imaging while he was drinking the charcoal but still screaming 

Since even shows about doctors and hospitals are usually massively inaccurate, I give the medicine a pass on non-medical shows most of the time. However, Regina is supposed to be an intelligent, capable human being. Why on earth would she call her girlfriend to ask what to do while her husband is lying on the floor screaming and writhing in pain? We teach preschoolers how to call 911, why does Regina need a psychologist who is not an MD to tell her that Rome needed medical care?  She couldn’t figure it out for herself?  Why not call a plumber or a mechanic for an opinion?  A few years ago, my neighbor fell on her steps and broke her ankle. Her 3 year old walked next door, knocked and asked me to call 911; so Regina is less capable in a crisis than a preschooler?

The hospital stuff was just as ridiculous. Apparently, anyone who has ever contemplated suicide is incapable of making medical decisions forever? Rome was not unconscious, he clearly wasn’t drowsy or disoriented, he was asking for help and told them flat out that he hadn’t taken anything.  So, move on, people.  His behavior and symptoms were completely wrong for an OD.  If this is the quality of medical care available in Boston, it’s no wonder Regina asks non-physicians for medical advice.  A quick dip of his urine would’ve shown it to be bloody and the diagnosis obvious. That could’ve been accomplished within 2 minutes of him hitting the door.  Also, activated charcoal is not the universal antidote to all poisons and a guy with severe abdominal pain who might need surgery shouldn’t be drinking anything, let alone that.  There was bsolutely no reason whatsoever not to work on relieving his pain ASAP; there are non narcotic pain meds available and used liberally in ER’s.

To complete my medical rant, bruising is not a sign of metastatic breast cancer. Never was, never will be. I guess if Maggie has metastasis to her bones so extensive that she was incapable of producing red cells and her liver was also so filled with tumor that she couldn’t make clotting factors? Of course, by that point, she would also be in more pain than Rome and would be moments  away from death, too.

if Eddie is going to be reduced to tears at the very thought of Delilah carrying his kid, good luck keeping that secret. Is it just me or is the actress playing Delilah actually getting worse as we go along?  I’ve come to despise her and I don’t think that’s what TPTB are going for here.

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Just not feeling this episode, seemed trite, no real emotion evoked. I was doing other things listening, didn't even feel the need to look at screen at times. I hope it gets the magic back soon. The medical misinformation is one thing, the way they all interact, a bit much. I did like the "I'm still standing" duet" , it reminded me of the time Elton sang that for Ryan White who was dying of AIDS. I honestly can't see the show writing off Maggie unless she wants to leave, I just wish they speed it up a bit, every week she waits makes it less plausible. I know it varies but I remember how my girlfriends sister wanted to do "natural things" when her cancer was back, no chemo, etc. and then changed her mind when nothing was working well. It was too late to treat so they made her comfortable. Her sister always wondered if maybe she'd have had more time, years, but it was her choice. On this show, I just can't see them doing that with Maggie. Bruising happens often with cancer treatment and low blood counts but again, Maggie seems fine, dancing, laughing, will she just collapse one day or not be able to get out of bed, will Gary find pain meds. It just doesn't flow well for me now. And can they please spell out her chances? Are they keeping it vague on purpose? I see miracles everyday, friends with pancreatic cancer alive 6 years later, metastatic breast cancer in coworker, almost 5 years now.  Sure, there are opposite scenarios but why be so vague on what Maggie's actually are?

Edited by debraran.
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Gary may joke around the most of everyone in this group of friends, but he is also capable of tough love. When Rome was whining about not wanting to drink all that charcoal and all of his "I can't believe Gina is making me do this" business, Gary laid the smack down and got him to drink it.

Gina's hurt and anger were totally justified so I was a bit disappointed that it all got patched up with "Would you like to go on a date with me?" Can't she have more than 24 hours to process all the information she got about Rome's depression and suicide attempt? Aside from that (and that's A LOT for her to take in already), of course she was upset that Maggie, Gary, and Eddie all knew before she did. It would be one thing if she and Rome didn't have a good relationship but from what we've seen, they are very close so it makes sense that she is hurt that he was able to tell all of these other people but not her. They seem like the kind of couple who doesn't keep secrets so this is a lot for her.

All of the daring seemed a bit glib, but I can see that Maggie was determined to keep things light and fun so I guess I can buy it. I like Gary but he needs to quit trying to convince Maggie to do chemo. If she changes her mind on her own, fine, but it's not his place to pressure her and pester her until she gives in.

Ha, bamboo straws are pretty expensive so no wonder Danny didn't make any profit from his lemonade stand! I continue to love Gary's relationship with Danny.

On the other hand, I'm so tired of Eddie and Delilah and the Secret Baby. And of course Eddie didn't want to sell his song because he thinks that as a 40 something year old guy, he's going to suddenly have a career breakthrough. Then he finally gives in and agrees to let that other guy sing it so Eddie can't walk away without insulting him. Great career move there, Eddie. Hope those rich moms are paying a lot for your guitar lessons so you can afford to contribute to your son's well being.

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Since even shows about doctors and hospitals are usually massively inaccurate, I give the medicine a pass on non-medical shows most of the time. However, Regina is supposed to be an intelligent, capable human being. Why on earth would she call her girlfriend to ask what to do while her husband is lying on the floor screaming and writhing in pain? We teach preschoolers how to call 911, why does Regina need a psychologist who is not an MD to tell her that Rome needed medical care?  She couldn’t figure it out for herself?

In Gina's defense, she didn't call Maggie to ask her what to do. Rome called Maggie while he was in the bathroom and then dropped the phone because he was in so much pain. When Gina came into the bathroom to see what was going on, she heard Maggie yelling, "HELLO? ROME?" so Gina picked up the phone and said, "Hello? Who is this?" then looked at the screen and saw it was Maggie.

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7 hours ago, topanga said:

And why is Regina so clueless about what do do when her husband collapses on the bathroom floor in pain? I know she isn’t a doctor, but shouting, What’s wrong, Rome? Or What do I do?  What do I do? to Maggi sounds like something a child would say, not a grown a woman. And then her interaction with the doctor was laughable yet sad. I hate the way Regina’s character is written. 

Yeah, when Rome collapsed in the bathroom, I was yelling at my TV "SOMEONE CALL 911 OR GET HIM TO A HOSPITAL YOURSELF!" I get that Regina was panicked, especially after finding out the night before about Rome's suicide attempt, but I'd think even logic about getting him to a hospital would take over. Maybe that reaction happens in real life, but it was definitely over-dramatized for this show. 

They really need to find a way to bring Katherine back in with the main characters because, at the moment, she's completely isolated and there's really no chance for her to interact with them, especially with her current storyline. 

There's a lot that bugged me. You're telling me that Delilah went to have an abortion YESTERDAY and then went to an ultrasound TODAY? So, she booked both an appointment for an abortion and an appointment for an ultrasound, y'know, JUST IN CASE? It just makes me think that she was never going through with the abortion. 

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Why on earth would she call her girlfriend to ask what to do while her husband is lying on the floor screaming and writhing in pain?

I mean, true on Regina seemingly not knowing how to dial 911, but in this case, Rome was already on the phone with Maggie (so Rome's the other idiot who can't dial 911 when he has excruciating pain) and Regina just picked up to see who he was talking to. But still, she should have said "Maggie, I gotta hang up and dial 911." 

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

To complete my medical rant, bruising is not a sign of metastatic breast cancer. Never was, never will be. I guess if Maggie has metastasis to her bones so extensive that she was incapable of producing red cells and her liver was also so filled with tumor that she couldn’t make clotting factors? Of course, by that point, she would also be in more pain than Rome and would be moments  away from death, too.

The show seems to have typed in "cancer" on WebMD and chose some random symptoms. 

So, Gary is the glue that holds them all together. He's Superman, it seems, with how many people he helped in this episode. Cool, but starting to become real annoyed with him because of it. 

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Did we know Gary had a dog? I feel like we have never seen that dog before (certainly not recently, and there have been a lot of scenes there recently, like when Eddie and Theo were staying), and then we were just supposed to accept that it had always been there. What?

Once again, these people (other than Katherine) NEVER WORK. Or rather, Gary and Maggie never work, since I guess the rest of them kind of work from home/ can make their own schedules. (And in the case of Rome and Regina, obviously medical emergencies take precedence.)

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

You're telling me that Delilah went to have an abortion YESTERDAY and then went to an ultrasound TODAY? So, she booked both an appointment for an abortion and an appointment for an ultrasound, y'know, JUST IN CASE? It just makes me think that she was never going through with the abortion. 

Ha! She covered all her bases...

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:
6 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Why on earth would she call her girlfriend to ask what to do while her husband is lying on the floor screaming and writhing in pain?

I mean, true on Regina seemingly not knowing how to dial 911, but in this case, Rome was already on the phone with Maggie (so Rome's the other idiot who can't dial 911 when he has excruciating pain) and Regina just picked up to see who he was talking to. But still, she should have said "Maggie, I gotta hang up and dial 911." 

And I loved how Maggie seemed much more concerned about revealing who she was to Gina (like she and Rome were having an affair) rather than why Rome was screaming in pain.

The only thing I really enjoyed about this episode was James Roday singing...

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3 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Did we know Gary had a dog? I feel like we have never seen that dog before (certainly not recently, and there have been a lot of scenes there recently, like when Eddie and Theo were staying), and then we were just supposed to accept that it had always been there. What?

I think we saw the dog once....maybe last episode? I don't really remember.

3 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Once again, these people (other than Katherine) NEVER WORK. Or rather, Gary and Maggie never work, since I guess the rest of them kind of work from home/ can make their own schedules. (And in the case of Rome and Regina, obviously medical emergencies take precedence.)

Which is hilarious, since Gary is said to have a full time desk job, as does Maggie.

Although, to be fair, this episode should technically be a Sunday, since last episode was Saturday (Eddie has his gig). I guess Katherine works weekends? 

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1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Although, to be fair, this episode should technically be a Sunday, since last episode was Saturday (Eddie has his gig). I guess Katherine works weekends? 

As does Delilah's OBGYN. And did Danny mention going to the arcade "after school," or am I imagining that?

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Just now, dargosmydaddy said:

As does Delilah's OBGYN. And did Danny mention going to the arcade "after school," or am I imagining that?

...I really wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. However, last episode, Eddie mentioned that Katherine was busy with work so he needed to take Theo, which is why he has him in this episode. Plus, Theo was home pretty much all day while Katherine was working, and we know she was talking to him during the day. All signs POINT to it being the weekend...besides Delilah having an appointment on the weekend. I'd have to rewatch to see if Danny said this, but that would require me caring enough to rewatch.

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7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

if Eddie is going to be reduced to tears at the very thought of Delilah carrying his kid, good luck keeping that secret. Is it just me or is the actress playing Delilah actually getting worse as we go along?  I’ve come to despise her and I don’t think that’s what TPTB are going for here.

I agree, just don't like Delilah

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10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

The hospital stuff was just as ridiculous. Apparently, anyone who has ever contemplated suicide is incapable of making medical decisions forever? Rome was not unconscious, he clearly wasn’t drowsy or disoriented, he was asking for help and told them flat out that he hadn’t taken anything.  So, move on, people.  His behavior and symptoms were completely wrong for an OD.  If this is the quality of medical care available in Boston, it’s no wonder Regina asks non-physicians for medical advice.  A quick dip of his urine would’ve shown it to be bloody and the diagnosis obvious. That could’ve been accomplished within 2 minutes of him hitting the door.  Also, activated charcoal is not the universal antidote to all poisons and a guy with severe abdominal pain who might need surgery shouldn’t be drinking anything, let alone that.  There was bsolutely no reason whatsoever not to work on relieving his pain ASAP; there are non narcotic pain meds available and used liberally in ER’s.

To complete my medical rant, bruising is not a sign of metastatic breast cancer. Never was, never will be. I guess if Maggie has metastasis to her bones so extensive that she was incapable of producing red cells and her liver was also so filled with tumor that she couldn’t make clotting factors? Of course, by that point, she would also be in more pain than Rome and would be moments  away from death, too.

Yes. The medical stuff really irritated me. It all seems like the writers heard something once and did absolutely no reasearch. Anyone who has ever watched a medical show should know that with an overdose the type of drug taken determines treatment. There is no way they would go immediately to activated charcoal in this situation. For the bruising I imagine the writers heard that it is a symptom for leukemia and assumed it was true for all cancers. 

7 hours ago, debraran said:

And can they please spell out her chances? Are they keeping it vague on purpose? I see miracles everyday, friends with pancreatic cancer alive 6 years later, metastatic breast cancer in coworker, almost 5 years now.  Sure, there are opposite scenarios but why be so vague on what Maggie's actually are?

 

When Maggie explains her reasons for not getting chemo she says that her chances are 30% with treatment. It has been obvious that she is going to get treatment and beat the odds so I wish they would get on with it. I’m really tired of seeing Gary pressure her and make snide remarks about her choice. 

3 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

As does Delilah's OBGYN. And did Danny mention going to the arcade "after school," or am I imagining that?

He says he was going “after school”. Which reminds me that Delilah really sucks has a mom. Her preteen tells her that he is meeting someone at the arcade after school and that he has a ride and she asks no questions. He is clearly hiding something and she just lets it go without even trying to find out what is going on. 

 

4 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Did we know Gary had a dog? I feel like we have never seen that dog before (certainly not recently, and there have been a lot of scenes there recently, like when Eddie and Theo were staying), and then we were just supposed to accept that it had always been there. What?

The dog was in an earlier episode but I am not sure which one. He is like Delilah’s kids, Ashley, and Delilah’s dad who disappear and reappear without any explanation. 

Edited by Dani.
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2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Gary is said to have a full time desk job, as does Maggie.

He was shown at work once, I think. But they are lousy at figuring out the timeline. If they really want it to be a day each episode, then they need to distribute the story lines on days that make sense. It is basic plotting.

2 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

As does Delilah's OBGYN. And did Danny mention going to the arcade "after school," or am I imagining that?

Yes he did.

"I'm Still Standing" was my theme song when I got divorced. I love that song beyond reason. (I Will Survive didn't do it for me, because I would have changed the stupid locks and made him return the key Lol.)

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Rome and Regina's bathroom has turned into a vortex of doom, hasn't it? Whether you're taking pregnancy tests for your illicit adulterous affair or your depressed possibly suicidal husband is collapsing in it, the outcome is probably not going to be that great. 

Speaking of, Eddie said to Delilah, "I'm only going to say this once...whatever we did, we created a life." WTF? Why is that something so important to preface with "I'm only going to say this once" like saying that more than once is some horrible thing. I get that they are going to lie about it but they don't have to lie to each other. I seriously thought he was going to confess his undying love but only say it once so the ball was in Delilah's court. And BTW, don't sound so proud of yourself for creating a life with Delilah, Eddie. The world does not need any more Eddie or Delilahs. Plus there are already 7 billion people on the planet so it's not like you're saving the human race or something.

I think lying to everyone about the baby is bad but really it's most unfair to the precious life they have created. 

Maggie and Gary's story is also annoying me because I hate watching a man harangue a vulnerable woman. When Gary gave Maggie the balloon with "I'm in," that should mean the subject is closed and he is supporting her decision. If he can't handle it, he knows where the door is. I really don't mind him giving his initial opinion but for crying out loud, he's got to learn to let it go instead of harassing her over it. I guess what really annoys me is that I know that Maggie will change her mind and Gary will be awarded for his horrendous behavior. Ugh.

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55 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Rome and Regina's bathroom has turned into a vortex of doom, hasn't it? Whether you're taking pregnancy tests for your illicit adulterous affair or your depressed possibly suicidal husband is collapsing in it, the outcome is probably not going to be that great. 

Speaking of, Eddie said to Delilah, "I'm only going to say this once...whatever we did, we created a life." WTF? Why is that something so important to preface with "I'm only going to say this once" like saying that more than once is some horrible thing. I get that they are going to lie about it but they don't have to lie to each other. I seriously thought he was going to confess his undying love but only say it once so the ball was in Delilah's court. And BTW, don't sound so proud of yourself for creating a life with Delilah, Eddie. The world does not need any more Eddie or Delilahs. Plus there are already 7 billion people on the planet so it's not like you're saving the human race or something.

I think lying to everyone about the baby is bad but really it's most unfair to the precious life they have created. 

Maggie and Gary's story is also annoying me because I hate watching a man harangue a vulnerable woman. When Gary gave Maggie the balloon with "I'm in," that should mean the subject is closed and he is supporting her decision. If he can't handle it, he knows where the door is. I really don't mind him giving his initial opinion but for crying out loud, he's got to learn to let it go instead of harassing her over it. I guess what really annoys me is that I know that Maggie will change her mind and Gary will be awarded for his horrendous behavior. Ugh.

When is Delilah going to tell the kids anything about what’s going on with her? Olive, no Paige, no Dana, no Tess—wait, what’s her angsty teenaged daughter’s name again?—is going to notice very soon that her thin mother has a baby bump. And I’m assuming everything is still good with their health insurance. Delilah checked on that, right?

Yes, I don’t like where the Gary and Maggie story line is headed. Of course, she’s going to get treatment because Gary had made her value him and her life so much. 

And yes, ‘I’m Still Standing’ is the best song ever. It’s timeless. I do like Gary’s lyrics, though: “Your blood’s like anti-freeze, it’s just like ice. Makes no sense, but it’s all in the delivery. 

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1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

Maggie and Gary's story is also annoying me because I hate watching a man harangue a vulnerable woman. When Gary gave Maggie the balloon with "I'm in," that should mean the subject is closed and he is supporting her decision. If he can't handle it, he knows where the door is. I really don't mind him giving his initial opinion but for crying out loud, he's got to learn to let it go instead of harassing her over it. I guess what really annoys me is that I know that Maggie will change her mind and Gary will be awarded for his horrendous behavior. Ugh.

I have been avoiding getting into a rant about the way Maggie cancer has been handled. This is exactly what bothers me about it. Watching a sick and terrified woman being bullied into getting treatment by a man she barely knows is infuriating. Gary keeps trying to frame Maggie’s decision as a fearful one and getting treatment as the brave choice and it is such bullshit. Any choice made by someone in Maggie’s situation is terrifying and brave. Anyone who can’t support her in whatever choice she makes needs to get the hell out of her life. Why can’t the show just let it be her decision?

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2 hours ago, Dani said:

Yes. The medical stuff really irritated me. It all seems like the writers heard something once and did absolutely no reasearch. Anyone who has ever watched a medical show should know that with an overdose the type of drug taken determines treatment. There is no way they would go immediately to activated charcoal in this situation. For the bruising I imagine the writers heard that it is a symptom for leukemia and assumed it was true for all cancers. 

When Maggie explains her reasons for not getting chemo she says that her chances are 30% with treatment. It has been obvious that she is going to get treatment and beat the odds so I wish they would get on with it. I’m really tired of seeing Gary pressure her and make snide remarks about her choice. 

He says he was going “after school”. Which reminds me that Delilah really sucks has a mom. Her preteen tells her that he is meeting someone at the arcade after school and that he has a ride and she asks no questions. He is clearly hiding something and she just lets it go without even trying to find out what is going on. 

 

The dog was in an earlier episode but I am not sure which one. He is like Delilah’s kids, Ashley, and Delilah’s dad who disappear and reappear without any explanation. 

The other thing they need to do as far as Maggie and treatment go is to point out, that, even if she is not cured, treating her may give her many years of normal life in which to accomplish a lot of goals.  I have a patient who was diagnosed with breast cancer at only 24.  It recurred a few years later in her bones and was therefore, never curable.  However, with treatment, she lived almost another 20 years, most of them fairly healthy and symptom-free.  She got to see her kids grow up.  It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't nothing, either.  Longterm survival for metastatic breast cancer can be very good and have a very reasonable quality of life to it.  So, even if Maggie doesn't fall into the fortunate 30% whose disease is eradicated completely, she could still get a major benefit from treatment.  That is another one of my problems with TV medical shows; they often present treatment, especially cancer treatment, as a zero sum game.  You're either cured or you die straightaway.  For many people, living with cancer is an option and one that needs to be discussed and explored, too.

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I wish they would figure out the timeline for this show. I can't figure out how long it's been since the suicide, the affair reveal, or any of it.  Some of it seems to be recent, but if so, this is the most forgiving bunch of people I've ever seen.  They get over things in like, 8 hours or something.   At least Regina and Rome indicated that the event of her finding the note and him confessing about his depression was the previous night. But otherwise, it's very difficult to figure out how time moves in this show.

 

Happy to see Katherine.  Loved her assistant. But having Gary say I think you deserve to be happy?  That felt shoehorned in to appease the viewers who have sympathy for Katherine.

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Well, that's 42 minutes of my life I'm never getting back.

This show frustrates me.  Yeah, this was a very meh episode, but I'm okay with meh episodes if they happen every once in a while in a show.  However, we are 7 episodes in and, really, there is only one episode (band of dads) when the pros really outweighed the cons.  Instead of being a great, or even good, show that doesn't always hit it out of the park, this is more like a show that strikes out every 6 times and hits a home run once.  (Bad sports analogy, I know...)

Here is what I liked about this show.  Acting wise, the usual suspects were strong.  Paying attention to him, I realized that Eddie is a really, really badly written character, yet David Giuntoli performs so well that I haven't noticed it as much.  Allison Miller and James Roday act very well off each other and, as long as they kept things light (even though the dare game was beyond stupid), I enjoyed them.  It's when I was actually reminded of what their story was that I really, really cringed.

Rome and Regina were, again, everything.  I'm just worried that their story is essentially wrapped up after this episode (which, unfortunately, Nash will probably fill up with more Delilah....blech!)

And here is what bugged me:

That hospital must really suck.  Rome comes in displaying the most typical symptoms of a very common thing and they don't know what to do?  It wasn't like he had some disease that they probably didn't deal with several times *a day*...he had kidney stones.  Also, I can't believe I'm having to say this for a second time (I still can't believe I had to say it a first time), but...Friends did it better.

Also, they said that Rome was taking cetraline (celexa) twice a day?  Really?  I have some personal experience with that drug and I know that they start you low and you work up until you find the right dosage and it is only taken once a day.  Given that Rome has probably been on it for 2 or 3 days, I find that he's taking a double dose really, really hard to believe

Do OB's normally give ultrasounds?  For my pregnancies, I always had a tech give them (I think my OB did it once, as part of my first appointment with my 2nd pregnancy and, even then it was on this little portable machine that was really only used for the most basic "Yep, there's a baby there" sort of thing).

I agree with whoever it was who said that it felt like Katherine was on a different show.  The thing is, I'd watch that show.  I mean, I could care less about her admirer, but the assistant was great and the premise of a newly-divorce mom learning to live her best life is not a bad one.

I had a massive eyeroll when Eddie is giving the next big thing his little talk about not messing up your life.  Because, you know, who is better to impart life wisdom than a guy who got thrown out of his house because he was banging his best friend's wife and who is expecting a baby with said best friend's wife (not that he can tell anyone) and is living on his friend's couch.

Ugh Maggie and Gary.  I like these two characters but I *hate* this story.  Well, I hate the way the story is told.  Woman makes a decision, man doesn't like her decision, so he becomes her savior...because everyone needs a savior, right?  I really think that they could get from point A to point B with these two in a much, much better way.

Sigh.  There is a part of me that thinks that storytellers should be able to tell their stories and that they shouldn't listen to the demands from their viewing audience.  On the other hand, I just don't think the story is working here.  Hopefully Nash will re-tool things in the second half of the season.

Edited by HazelEyes4325.
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3 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I wish they would figure out the timeline for this show. I can't figure out how long it's been since the suicide, the affair reveal, or any of it.  Some of it seems to be recent, but if so, this is the most forgiving bunch of people I've ever seen.  They get over things in like, 8 hours or something.   At least Regina and Rome indicated that the event of her finding the note and him confessing about his depression was the previous night. But otherwise, it's very difficult to figure out how time moves in this show.

 

It is confusing. Here is my best guesstimation on the timeline:

Fri.October 12th- Jon commits suicide (the day was confirmed by the showrunner)
Sun.October 21st- The rest of episode 1 happens.
Mon.October 22nd- Father-Daughter dance/Episode 2
Tues. Oct 23-Thurs. Oct. 25th- Gary's Birthday/Episode 3
Fri.Nov 2nd- Pizza Night/Episode 4

The time lapse between episode 4 and 5 is extremely cloudy and fuddles the timeline. But with Gary finding out about Maggie's cancer returning in episode 4 and episode 5 was the reveal, I doubt he waited weeks for her to tell him. I'd say no more than a week passed. So, roughly...

Fri. Nov 9th- Secrets Revealed Episode/Episode 5 

Let's PRETEND that Rome and Regina waited a week before having all their friends over for Game Night.


Friday Night/Saturday Nov. 16th/17th OR Sat. Night/Sunday Nov. 17th-18th- Pregnancy Reveal/Eddie's Gig/Episode 6
Sun. Nov 18th OR Mon. Nov 19th- Current Episode

So this episode is either in the currentish time of this upcoming weekend, or it's a bit more than a week ahead. 

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I guess activated charcoal capsules just aren’t as dramatic as a cupful!

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Obviously Eddie got the friends and Katherine is the outsider, which she seems to have been all along.  Where does the character fit in now?  Maybe Eddie should have been single, since his real story is that he had an affair with his dear friend's wife.  HIs whole storyline really revolves around Delilah, not Katherine IMO.

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8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It is confusing. Here is my best guesstimation on the timeline:

Fri.October 12th- Jon commits suicide (the day was confirmed by the showrunner)
Sun.October 21st- The rest of episode 1 happens.
Mon.October 22nd- Father-Daughter dance/Episode 2
Tues. Oct 23-Thurs. Oct. 25th- Gary's Birthday/Episode 3
Fri.Nov 2nd- Pizza Night/Episode 4

The time lapse between episode 4 and 5 is extremely cloudy and fuddles the timeline. But with Gary finding out about Maggie's cancer returning in episode 4 and episode 5 was the reveal, I doubt he waited weeks for her to tell him. I'd say no more than a week passed. So, roughly...

Fri. Nov 9th- Secrets Revealed Episode/Episode 5 

Let's PRETEND that Rome and Regina waited a week before having all their friends over for Game Night.


Friday Night/Saturday Nov. 16th/17th OR Sat. Night/Sunday Nov. 17th-18th- Pregnancy Reveal/Eddie's Gig/Episode 6
Sun. Nov 18th OR Mon. Nov 19th- Current Episode

So this episode is either in the currentish time of this upcoming weekend, or it's a bit more than a week ahead. 

Actually, I think something was said that indicated that the game night was the night after the guys found the pee stick.  

But, at the rate they are going, we're going to have a very special Christmas episode in the season finale in May.

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7 minutes ago, nexxie said:

I guess activated charcoal capsules just aren’t as dramatic as a cupful!

Well this does seem to be a world without plan B and the abortion pill. Who need realism when you can do everything in the most dramatic way possible. ?

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Given the likely timeline outlined above, we are at most 5 weeks from Jon’s suicide.  Does Delilah act at all, in any way, like someone whose husband killed himself a month ago???  She should be mourning, sad, angry, scared about finances, or just showing some sort of emotion that reflects the devastation of having someone you love kill themself.  There’s not even a pretense that she is numb from grief. 

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I'm just glad that Gary proudly rocked his clock radio--I'm not the only one out there!

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1 minute ago, Seelouis said:

Given the likely timeline outlined above, we are at most 5 weeks from Jon’s suicide.  Does Delilah act at all, in any way, like someone whose husband killed himself a month ago???  She should be mourning, sad, angry, scared about finances, or just showing some sort of emotion that reflects the devastation of having someone you love kill themself.  There’s not even a pretense that she is numb from grief. 

Well, Delilah was smiling and making new best friends on the day of her husband's funeral, so maybe she's just a psychopath.

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34 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Do OB's normally give ultrasounds?  For my pregnancies, I always had a tech give them (I think my OB did it once, as part of my first appointment with my 2nd pregnancy and, even then it was on this little portable machine that was really only used for the most basic "Yep, there's a baby there" sort of thing).

No, we don't.  Many of us have small, lower tech (ie old) machines in our offices that we use to check the heartbeat and position of the baby, but most OB/GYN's do not do routine ultrasounds for anatomy for a couple reasons. 1. It takes 30-45 minutes to do a decent anatomy scan and put it all together and come up with a report.  Most of us don't have that kind of time during regular office hours. 2. There is tremendous liability involved in doing obstetric ultrasounds if the doc misses something.  Many private malpractice carriers won't let regular OB/GYN's won't cover a doc for anything but the most basic scan unless the doc is willing to fork over an extra premium for an ultrasound rider, 3. Obstetric care is considered a global charge.  That means your insurance pays a lump sum to the doc after the delivery and not a dime more.  No matter how many office visits, no matter how long the labor, no matter the mode of delivery usually.  A few years back, insurance companies decided that, if an OB/GYN does the anatomic survey and other scans on his or her own patients, well, that is part of the global care the patient is getting.  Therefore, the OB/GYN gets no additional compensation to do it.  As noted above it is a significant time drain and a decent ultrasound machine if you're going to look at anatomy costs about $100,000.  Not to mention the additional training and ongoing education required to maintain competence in OB ultrasound.  

Also, like any other technical skill, practice makes perfect.  A trained ultrasound technician who does bunches of scans each and every day, is simply going to do a better, more thorough job than a doc who does ultrasound on the fly every now and then.

Those quick and dirty scans we do in the office to see the baby's heartbeat, check to see if it is breech or often done for social reasons because parents like to see the kiddo, are not really very medically useful and we don't charge for them (and couldn't collect if we did).

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4 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Well, Delilah was smiling and making new best friends on the day of her husband's funeral, so maybe she's just a psychopath.

And there is absolutely no explanation whatsoever about what she has done to be sure their lives are going to be secure.  Presumably, she didn't know what Jon was planning, we know she didn't get the note and any instructions Jon might have had for her.  It looks like Jon owned the business which seems to have been pretty successful.  Shouldn't she be talking to his business managers and attorneys, making sure his clients are passed along, that the business' expenses and revenue are protected and no one can embezzle funds (like Ashley who seems to have free rein) and getting a full dossier on the state of the business financially?  And, shouldn't she also be working with the same people to figure out how to liquidate the business, file Jon's will, figure out where the money they've saved is and how it will add up to pay for living expenses, college and the like?  Doesn't she need to know if there was life insurance in place and if it would cover a suicide?

A friend of mine lost her husband after a very brief illness last winter.  They were solidly middle class, he owned his own business which was profitable although not on the level Jon's seems to be.  Even though she and her hubby had a couple of weeks to work on it; it was still up to her to get the business audited, inventoried and sold.  She works full time and was spending a couple nights a week and most weekends on the job and she is a very efficient detail oriented person, who took an interest in this stuff, had time before her hubby died to get the paperwork together with his help and still; she finally closed it out in late October, almost 9 months after his death.  And this was a woman who was prepared and organized, had a full time job, cover the daily expenses without his input, and had a kid in college for whom they'd established a college fund years earlier so she knew how to access it; so she had the luxury of not being desperate for cash.  Delilah, considering the suddenness of Jon's death and the fact that she seemingly knows next to nothing about any of it and will need the proceeds to support herself and her kids; should be knee deep in this stuff and spending hours every day trying to figure out how they're going to survive.  Did she win the lottery?  Is she an heiress?

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25 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

No, we don't.  Many of us have small, lower tech (ie old) machines in our offices that we use to check the heartbeat and position of the baby, but most OB/GYN's do not do routine ultrasounds for anatomy for a couple reasons. 1. It takes 30-45 minutes to do a decent anatomy scan and put it all together and come up with a report.  Most of us don't have that kind of time during regular office hours. 2. There is tremendous liability involved in doing obstetric ultrasounds if the doc misses something.  Many private malpractice carriers won't let regular OB/GYN's won't cover a doc for anything but the most basic scan unless the doc is willing to fork over an extra premium for an ultrasound rider, 3. Obstetric care is considered a global charge.  That means your insurance pays a lump sum to the doc after the delivery and not a dime more.  No matter how many office visits, no matter how long the labor, no matter the mode of delivery usually.  A few years back, insurance companies decided that, if an OB/GYN does the anatomic survey and other scans on his or her own patients, well, that is part of the global care the patient is getting.  Therefore, the OB/GYN gets no additional compensation to do it.  As noted above it is a significant time drain and a decent ultrasound machine if you're going to look at anatomy costs about $100,000.  Not to mention the additional training and ongoing education required to maintain competence in OB ultrasound.  

Also, like any other technical skill, practice makes perfect.  A trained ultrasound technician who does bunches of scans each and every day, is simply going to do a better, more thorough job than a doc who does ultrasound on the fly every now and then.

Those quick and dirty scans we do in the office to see the baby's heartbeat, check to see if it is breech or often done for social reasons because parents like to see the kiddo, are not really very medically useful and we don't charge for them (and couldn't collect if we did).

I remember when I had my son 1988, I had 2 ultrasounds, early to see/hear heartbeat and later for size. My doctor didn't think it was needed and said many docs did it for the parents and to pay for the expensive machine. I see why insurance would say eventually it was "global".  It became a way for parents to get early photos and at one time, another charge.

I also remember before other tests, in the early 80's a doctor telling a first time parent she was having a boy and then she had a girl. lol Italian grandparents had bought so much boy stuff, it was a shock. Was it a finger, a miss by the doctor, who knows, but it wasn't a long scan, just at doctor visit.

Things have changed a lot but I feel sometimes a bit overboard with tests, but then we are afraid of law suits also.

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36 minutes ago, hula-la said:

I'm just glad that Gary proudly rocked his clock radio--I'm not the only one out there!

No you're not! I still wake up to the clock radio I've had for at least 20 years. Set to a station that usually wakes me up to some awesome 80's ditty. Love it.

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21 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

And there is absolutely no explanation whatsoever about what she has done to be sure their lives are going to be secure.  Presumably, she didn't know what Jon was planning, we know she didn't get the note and any instructions Jon might have had for her.  It looks like Jon owned the business which seems to have been pretty successful.  Shouldn't she be talking to his business managers and attorneys, making sure his clients are passed along, that the business' expenses and revenue are protected and no one can embezzle funds (like Ashley who seems to have free rein) and getting a full dossier on the state of the business financially?  And, shouldn't she also be working with the same people to figure out how to liquidate the business, file Jon's will, figure out where the money they've saved is and how it will add up to pay for living expenses, college and the like?  Doesn't she need to know if there was life insurance in place and if it would cover a suicide?

A friend of mine lost her husband after a very brief illness last winter.  They were solidly middle class, he owned his own business which was profitable although not on the level Jon's seems to be.  Even though she and her hubby had a couple of weeks to work on it; it was still up to her to get the business audited, inventoried and sold.  She works full time and was spending a couple nights a week and most weekends on the job and she is a very efficient detail oriented person, who took an interest in this stuff, had time before her hubby died to get the paperwork together with his help and still; she finally closed it out in late October, almost 9 months after his death.  And this was a woman who was prepared and organized, had a full time job, cover the daily expenses without his input, and had a kid in college for whom they'd established a college fund years earlier so she knew how to access it; so she had the luxury of not being desperate for cash.  Delilah, considering the suddenness of Jon's death and the fact that she seemingly knows next to nothing about any of it and will need the proceeds to support herself and her kids; should be knee deep in this stuff and spending hours every day trying to figure out how they're going to survive.  Did she win the lottery?  Is she an heiress?

Yes but is that what we want to watch? Someone poring over legal documents, making phone calls and whatnot? TV shows can't and don't show every minute of every character's day. When the paperwork is pertinent to the plot, I'm sure we will hear all about it. In the meantime, I'm not really sweating over how the bills are getting paid.

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17 hours ago, Dani said:

In this one day he pressured Maggie, opened a lemonade stand, went to the hospital and diagnosed the problem before the doctors, sang at a ramen place, painted graffiti on the side of a very tall building, pressured Maggie again, supported Danny at the arcade date, and then ran in to Katherine at the ramen place. I’m surprised he didn’t show up at the ultrasound   

 

God, I wish I could get done half the amount of stuff Gary manages to do in a day. Does he have some kind of personal wormhole or something? Did he steal Hermione Granger's time turner?

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Longterm survival for metastatic breast cancer can be very good and have a very reasonable quality of life to it.  

My grandmother died at 83, after living at least 5-6 years with MBC that had moved to her bones (not her first bout with BC, either). It was pneumonia that got her in the end.

Edited by ams1001.
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8 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Yes but is that what we want to watch? Someone poring over legal documents, making phone calls and whatnot? TV shows can't and don't show every minute of every character's day. When the paperwork is pertinent to the plot, I'm sure we will hear all about it. In the meantime, I'm not really sweating over how the bills are getting paid.

No, of course not, but a  mention or two about having an appointment to talk to the lawyers, see the business managers, contemplate the future would go a long way towards preparing the audience for the business-related drama we know is coming.  One of the complaints that has been raised about this show is that it tends to jump from plot to plot without adequate set-up.  Since we know the business is going to be a part of the story at some point, reminding us of the issues involved every now and then would make for better continuity.

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17 hours ago, Dani said:

In this one day he pressured Maggie, opened a lemonade stand, went to the hospital and diagnosed the problem before the doctors, sang at a ramen place, painted graffiti on the side of a very tall building, pressured Maggie again, supported Danny at the arcade date, and then ran in to Katherine at the ramen place. I’m surprised he didn’t show up at the ultrasound  

I think he is going to deliver the baby

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17 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

No, of course not, but a  mention or two about having an appointment to talk to the lawyers, see the business managers, contemplate the future would go a long way towards preparing the audience for the business-related drama we know is coming.  One of the complaints that has been raised about this show is that it tends to jump from plot to plot without adequate set-up.  Since we know the business is going to be a part of the story at some point, reminding us of the issues involved every now and then would make for better continuity.

It's pretty clear that Delilah's cluelessness about her finances is the basis for a larger story.  But here's the problem.  We're watching a realistic show, so the showrunners can't fall back on some sort of magic to explain plot discrepancies.  Whatever this story down the road is for Delilah, it could be realistic on its own.  But, if it has an unrealistic base, then--no matter what--it is an unrealistic plot.  As you said, a few lines here and there just to let the audience know that something was happening off screen, could add a hell of a lot of very needed credibility to this story.

This can also be applied to the precious life she created in the back of her Lexus.  No, it is not impossible for Delilah at age 43 to have an oopsie pregnancy.  But, given who Delilah is, what her life situation was, who she was sleeping with, etc, it is very unrealistic that it would happen.

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

No, we don't. 

 

Thank you for your reply about OB's and ultrasounds.  I'm glad to know that my nitpicking has merit!

But, this is one of those things that drives me absolutely crazy...not just about this show, but quite a few.  There was no reason for there to be an OB doing this ultrasound.  They could have swapped in a tech and it wouldn't have changed anything.  Yeah, it's a little detail, but it is one that is no trouble whatsoever to get right.  And this show has *a lot* of those.  It doesn't take too many for me to lose all confidence in the writing.

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1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

No, we don't.  Many of us have small, lower tech (ie old) machines in our offices that we use to check the heartbeat and position of the baby, but most OB/GYN's do not do routine ultrasounds for anatomy for a couple reasons. 1. It takes 30-45 minutes to do a decent anatomy scan and put it all together and come up with a report.  Most of us don't have that kind of time during regular office hours. 2. There is tremendous liability involved in doing obstetric ultrasounds if the doc misses something.  Many private malpractice carriers won't let regular OB/GYN's won't cover a doc for anything but the most basic scan unless the doc is willing to fork over an extra premium for an ultrasound rider, 3. Obstetric care is considered a global charge.  That means your insurance pays a lump sum to the doc after the delivery and not a dime more.  No matter how many office visits, no matter how long the labor, no matter the mode of delivery usually.  A few years back, insurance companies decided that, if an OB/GYN does the anatomic survey and other scans on his or her own patients, well, that is part of the global care the patient is getting.  Therefore, the OB/GYN gets no additional compensation to do it.  As noted above it is a significant time drain and a decent ultrasound machine if you're going to look at anatomy costs about $100,000.  Not to mention the additional training and ongoing education required to maintain competence in OB ultrasound. 

The ultrasounds I had in the late 80's and early 90's were diagnostic in nature, and done by a tech. Though the OB for my last kid did a vaginal ultrasound for the "yep there's a baby" check. He also did his own ultrasound when he was attempting to perform amniocentesis on me. I won't say more - just that I dumped him as soon as I could.

57 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Yes but is that what we want to watch? Someone poring over legal documents, making phone calls and whatnot? TV shows can't and don't show every minute of every character's day. When the paperwork is pertinent to the plot, I'm sure we will hear all about it. In the meantime, I'm not really sweating over how the bills are getting paid.

I don't care how the bills are paid, but I do care that she gets a credit card declined and is completely baffled by it. There are a lot of little things (say a million...) that could nod toward her taking care of business, but she's just helpless and clueless beyond belief.

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I looooove James Roday. He was great on Psych. He always makes me laugh. 

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2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

It's pretty clear that Delilah's cluelessness about her finances is the basis for a larger story.  But here's the problem.  We're watching a realistic show, so the showrunners can't fall back on some sort of magic to explain plot discrepancies.  Whatever this story down the road is for Delilah, it could be realistic on its own.  But, if it has an unrealistic base, then--no matter what--it is an unrealistic plot.  As you said, a few lines here and there just to let the audience know that something was happening off screen, could add a hell of a lot of very needed credibility to this story.

This can also be applied to the precious life she created in the back of her Lexus.  No, it is not impossible for Delilah at age 43 to have an oopsie pregnancy.  But, given who Delilah is, what her life situation was, who she was sleeping with, etc, it is very unrealistic that it would happen.

Thank you for your reply about OB's and ultrasounds.  I'm glad to know that my nitpicking has merit!

But, this is one of those things that drives me absolutely crazy...not just about this show, but quite a few.  There was no reason for there to be an OB doing this ultrasound.  They could have swapped in a tech and it wouldn't have changed anything.  Yeah, it's a little detail, but it is one that is no trouble whatsoever to get right.  And this show has *a lot* of those.  It doesn't take too many for me to lose all confidence in the writing.

Not only did a doctor do the ultrasound, said doctor had to explain, apparently for the audience' benefit, that Delilah's regular doctor was doing a delivery and she was the backup.  The show wastes dialogue on stupid exposition like that, but we get no clue as to what Delilah is doing about her husband's estate.

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1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

Not only did a doctor do the ultrasound, said doctor had to explain, apparently for the audience' benefit, that Delilah's regular doctor was doing a delivery and she was the backup.  The show wastes dialogue on stupid exposition like that, but we get no clue as to what Delilah is doing about her husband's estate.

Yeah, I took that as trying to explain why the person doing the ultrasound (the OB) would "think" Eddie was the father.  You know how they could have handled that better?  Have a tech do the ultrasound.

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4 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Obviously Eddie got the friends and Katherine is the outsider, which she seems to have been all along.  Where does the character fit in now?  Maybe Eddie should have been single, since his real story is that he had an affair with his dear friend's wife.  HIs whole storyline really revolves around Delilah, not Katherine IMO.

I started this post to say something like Eddie had to be married because...

And I couldn't come up with anything,  Despite the fact that Theo is the only one of the kids that I like, there is absolutely no reason for Katherine or Theo to exist in this current storyline.

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17 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yeah, I took that as trying to explain why the person doing the ultrasound (the OB) would "think" Eddie was the father.  You know how they could have handled that better?  Have a tech do the ultrasound.

And guess what?  No matter how long the other doctor had been seeing Delilah as a patient, she hasn't had a baby in many years and he probably hasn't seen Jon since then.  The odds that Delilah's regular doctor would've recognized Jon on sight were small anyway.  Make the same point by having Delilah's regular doctor call him Jon because that's the name of her husband on her chart.  Having delivered thousands of kids, I can guarantee you I probably could recognize maybe 10% of the dads, even in the case of people for whom I'd delivered multiple kids.  I once held a kid in a Christmas outfit in a store and took pictures after his father shoved him in my arms and asked me to pose.  The kid was maybe 6 months old.  As they walked away, my sister whispered to me, 'You had no idea who that was!'.  Yup.  

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