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S01E06: Off Radar

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When Cal wakes with a life-threatening fever, Grace worries it's a side-effect of his experimental cancer treatment, but Michaela and Ben suspect Cal's condition may be related to a mysterious passenger from Flight 828. As Cal's situation worsens, Ben and Michaela attempt to track down the now-missing passenger.

11/05/2018

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5 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Grace irritated me to no end in this episode.

Tell me about it. Grace is just irritating and always me-me-me, my needs. This episode started pointing towards the end of Ben and Grace, and not a moment too soon.

I liked this episode, for the amount of detective work that was involved. It was pretty intense too with the crosscutting between Cal and the Bulgarian guy. I was dreading that Jared was going to snicth on Michaela, but thankfully, that wasn't the case. I want Jared to be part of the Michaela, Ben, Saanvi, mystery-solving team. Also, hopefully Vance will finally start to become useful.

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I thought Vance was a dead man ( and his sidekick ) when they pulled into the farm drive and then they just waltzed right into the Red Door room, so it was obvious that everyone flew the coop, so to speak. Here I thought Vance was the bad guy and  it appears he doesn't know all the big secrets.

 

I like this show, I agree with what seems to be a common opinion that it does seem to be dragging. I hate to always compare everything to Lost, but let's face it-- no matter how you feel about that show since it ended, even if you hate how it ended and everything ( I don't but I've seen that sentiment a lot !), I think most people will agree that, for the 1st season at the very least, it was exciting and super intriguing ! You could barely stand to wait a week to see what would happen next. And with Manifest, as much as I want to, I don't feel that excitement. I keep hoping that passion will spark, and the show DOES have it moments, but I think a new "Lost" just ain't going to happen.

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2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

The Cal character isn’t interesting/compelling enough, nor the child actor strong enough, to make him the driving force of the show. And honestly they shouldn’t need the motivation—these people should want to know what the hell happened to them to begin with!

The crazy thing is that a real child made from Charming's and Grace's DNA would've been gorgeous and precocious enough to stop an army of Homeland black ops in their tracks and have them offering frankincense and myrrh on bended knees. Oh well. When compared to the old sweaty Bulgarian, I guess sleeping Cal looked kind of cute. Heck, anyone's cute when they're sleeping.

 

The character of Jared had the best scenario in this episode. He wasn't even really between a rock and a hard place. Just a sidekick, really. Hey, he was almost providing a little comic relief with the flat tire. C'mon, writers, you can do it! Make Jared funny! And how about having the best friend/wife go home to mother in another country?

 

 

2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

. . . A plane just reappeared after 5.5 years missing and suddenly passengers hearing voices is the thing that you can’t believe? Really? REALLY?

Exactly! If only Ben had said these exact words! Yoo-hoo! Oh, Manifest producers! Over here! I'm @stealinghome's agent! (Puh-lease?)
But, seriously. If Ben had said to Grace, "A plane just reappeared after 5.5 years missing and suddenly passengers hearing voices is the thing that you can’t believe? Really? REALLY?" and then she had answered with something like, "I know! I know. It's just . . ." and then had her bathroom breakdown.
So much better. Right?


 

2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

. . . I knew it was only a matter of time before we got the secret group within the government working on their own secret agenda! So the countdown to Vance turning double agent begins...now.

I have to admit that I didn't see this coming — especially Vance being a rather good guy. I didn't think the show had the ability to make him a gray character instead of a stereotypical evil government dude.

 

NBC kept breaking up here in the rain, but I don't think I missed anything—which is not a good reflection on the show.

Edited by shapeshifter.
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That actually had a few pretty intense moments, especially when they kept cutting from Cal to the poor Bulgarian guy. I dont care that much about Cal (I dont hate him, but he is just a typical kid character) but I do like the psychic connection stuff. And we even have a nifty new government conspiracy, whos job is to get the plot moving! And while the passenger of the week stuff is alright, I am ready to get the main plot in motion.

I already like Ben and Saanvi, and the show seems to be testing them out a bit as a possible couple. Especially because Grace gets on my last nerve. Yeah, she was worried about her son, but she just came off as so needlessly argumentative, especially as Ben was trying to explain what was happening, and what he was doing for Cal, and she just told him that he was being an idiot. And then got crappy with Saanvi, who has worked her ass off to help Graces family, who she hardly even knows! Grace asked to be let in, Ben told her the truth, and she just starred at him like he was a crazy person! Does SHE have any better ideas about this magical mystery plane? I hope that she just goes off with her boyfriend and Ben and Saanvi can solve mysteries while looking pretty. The two of them already have much better chemistry, and they seem to be much more on the same page. 

Michaela and Jared actually work as a team pretty well, and they actually work quite well as old friends who are kind of awkward about each other, but still care about the other one. The actors also do better solving crimes than angsting it up about love triangles. Also, did no one on that plane come back to a spouse who wanted them around?!

I like the idea of Vance as a government agent who isnt in on the conspiracy, and could actually help them figure things out with insider information. I think its a good move to have him as a more complicated character than just a government asshole. I thought he would be a bad guy in on the shady plot, but him actually being a decent guy not in on the shady stuff was a good move that I didnt see coming. So kudos for that.

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Oh no !!!  Cal is the center of attention again.

Wish they would quit trying to make 'the callings' happen.  Or just rename the show 'The Callings'.

Now we have another mystery.  A shadowy gov't organization doing sketchy things to some of the passengers.
And why was Cal connected to just that one passenger ?  What about the rest of the passengers being tortured ?

It's all just so boring.

I'm confused by that map at that conference on Flight 828 -- the map made it look the plane disappeared over Cuba (actual vs. planned flight path), but if that was true Flight 828 would have interacted with Miami Air Traffic Control well before they go anywhere near New York.

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I almost forgot this show was on tonight.

I felt really badly for those passengers they're treating like lab rats.  Sometimes, I like kid characters but it hasn't been too easy to connect with Cal.  

I agree that it was more fun when Jared and Michaela were working together to solve the mystery.  I want him to be part of the team too, so I'm glad Michaela confided in him.  Another positive development in this episode was showing that Vance was also in the dark and he's not just evil for evil's sake. 

I liked Grace in previous episodes but she was working my last nerve in this one.  I get the dilemma with the antibiotics but when she found out it was viral, she was pretty much blaming everyone around her, including Saanvi.  I couldn't believe she said, "I'm done with you" to her.  And accusing her of "encouraging" Ben?  Huh?  

I'm glad Grace and Jared were finally told about the voices, but it was so true that their reactions were not supportive at all.  Grace's "Are you hearing voices too?" was so accusatory.  Like her next line was going to be "If you are, you're a danger to Cal and I want you out of the house".  

I guess they needed Olive to be MIA so Grace would feel even more alone?  Olive was spending the night at Avery's?  Was that her boyfriend?  Wouldn't they have told her about what was happening to Cal the next day?  

Edited by Camera One.
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I got the impression that the secret lab experimenting on the passengers closed up shop because they were tipped off.  If so, that means someone on the NSA director's staff did that,right? 

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2 hours ago, izabella said:

I got the impression that the secret lab experimenting on the passengers closed up shop because they were tipped off.  If so, that means someone on the NSA director's staff did that,right? 

Good point.  Either that or sister cop and ex-future-whatever cop spooked them since they didn't believe the flat tire story because who would.  But probably one of those two guys with Vance is in on it.  Maybe the younger one who tried to poo-poo the fuzzy picture of the woman as a Bigfoot sighting hardee har har boss.

This is the episode I had HOPED the show would be like all along.  Episodes about what the hell is going on.  Mystery.  Conspiracy.  Black ops.  Not boring horrible soap operas. 

Now we have an evil mega-corporation with its private "Blackwater-like" private army who may or may not be doing stuff for shady government agencies and/or shady people within them.  It actually would be cool if the corporation was the Big Bad because gov't conspiracies have been done to death.  Also I'm a fan of Mr Robot though they have done/are doing it a thousand times better.  In fact I wonder if Manifest is ripping them off some what with "NSA Agent" (hahaha) Vance set to become like the female FBI agent in Mr Robot.

And when I say this episode was what I hoped this series would be like that is of course minus The Golden Child and his two equally stupid parents.  Especially hubby this episode who has been hiding everything from the wife all along and then expects her to believe all this in one short sentence without any examples as Brian C said above.  And while she is in a non-rational, highly emotional freak-out mode besides.  Neither of these two have had an honest conversation with each other since Mystery Plane landed.  Lazy writing to have principle characters always hiding stuff from each other so the plot is moved along by such-like lousy writing.

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Convenient that not only a translator was on board, but a translator of Bulgarian! Or do they think translators can just translate all languages.

I  assume they are writing Grace as a self-centered jerk on purpose to ease the transition of Ben to relationship w Saanvi. Grace can go back to other guy no worries. Though if so the latter two will have no reason to be on the show. Which, good riddance of course but they might have signed on for more episodes so they will prob drag out the tedious soap aspect to keep them occupied.

Ditto comments above re where was Olive, and unconvincingness of mom feelings (on top of lack of marital feelings). And as a parent, how about saying to a fevered kid, 'It's all right kid, I'm here!' No, it's not all right, it doesn't matter if you are there or not, he is out of it. Likewise she wanted Ben to what, sit in the waiting room and read magazines? Let him go investigate, there is nothing he, or you, can do in the meantime. Dialog is bad but the actress isn't doing well either.

Also +1 about the voices incredulity and the misconstruing. More poor dialog!

I wasn't clear on where the Bulgarian was at the end - in a regular hospital? But evil guy said they can start the experiments up again when new location is set up?

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I thought the implication was that the Bulgarian had been in Cal’s head as much as Cal had been in his. So the psychic link works both ways.

I totally assumed that one (or both) of Vance’s minions tipped off the lab site and that’s why they got moved. The question is simply which minion (if it’s not both).

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I lost it with Grace when she reamed out Ben for leaving the hospital room. That’s the point of having 2 parents—to give each other breaks. The fact that Ben’s break had a purpose almost didn’t matter.

i can’t tell yet if the other Fed who went with Vance to the abandoned site is in on it, or being played as a dupe to pass on bad info to Vance.

Someone upthread asked why Cal was mind-melding with the Bulgarian, but no other Bus #5 passengers. I think it’s because the Bulgarian man had physical contact with Cal. He patted him on the head while he was walking the aisle.

Edited by Amy Beth.
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15 minutes ago, Amy Beth said:

 

Someone upthread asked why Cal was mind-melding with the Bulgarian, but no other Bus #5 passengers. I think it’s because the Bulgarian man had physical contact with Cal. He patted him on the head while he was walking the aisle.

That’s what I thought, too.  Why else show the head pat and the kid looking at the guy if it didn’t mean something?

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30 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I thought the implication was that the Bulgarian had been in Cal’s head as much as Cal had been in his. So the psychic link works both ways.

How so, was the Bulgarian shouting things in English? Like shut up mom, let dad go investigate! Or, it's all connected! Come to think of it we haven't heard much from regular kid Cal, he's either away, or running ahead, or fevered.

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If the goal of this series is for it to annoy the crap out of me, the writers have succeeded.

The only character more annoying than the creepy kid, is his mother who is all butt hurt that her husband wasn't there for her.  It's all about her wants, her needs.  Why didn't she just call her boytoy?

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20 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:

How so, was the Bulgarian shouting things in English? Like shut up mom, let dad go investigate! Or, it's all connected! Come to think of it we haven't heard much from regular kid Cal, he's either away, or running ahead, or fevered.

At the end of the episode the Bulgarian guy, in the new creepy black medical site, was saying “I was in a hospital...I was calling for my mother.” He certainly hasn’t been in a hospital and we didn’t see him calling for his mother so I assumed those words were to tell us that he had been in Cal’s head.

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7 hours ago, Camera One said:

  I get the dilemma with the antibiotics but when she found out it was viral, she was pretty much blaming everyone around her, including Saanvi.  I couldn't believe she said, "I'm done with you" to her.  And accusing her of "encouraging" Ben?  Huh?    

I worked pediatric oncology for four years. That is not the way to treat a fever in a child with cancer, even if he is participating in a clinical trial. (To see further rants about medicine on TV, go to the New Amsterdam board).

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9 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

At the end of the episode the Bulgarian guy, in the new creepy black medical site, was saying “I was in a hospital...I was calling for my mother.” He certainly hasn’t been in a hospital and we didn’t see him calling for his mother so I assumed those words were to tell us that he had been in Cal’s head.

Ah good catch! 

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1 hour ago, Amy Beth said:

Someone upthread asked why Cal was mind-melding with the Bulgarian, but no other Bus #5 passengers. I think it’s because the Bulgarian man had physical contact with Cal. He patted him on the head while he was walking the aisle.

I totally glossed on this^ and this:

12 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:
23 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

At the end of the episode the Bulgarian guy, in the new creepy black medical site, was saying “I was in a hospital...I was calling for my mother.” He certainly hasn’t been in a hospital and we didn’t see him calling for his mother so I assumed those words were to tell us that he had been in Cal’s head.

Ah good catch! 

Maybe I missed the significance of Bulgarian guy patting Cal on the head/making physical contact and his Cal channeling because NBC kept breaking up?
Did the rest of you catch it?

46 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:

How so, was the Bulgarian shouting things in English? Like shut up mom, let dad go investigate! Or, it's all connected!

Heh. Yeah, that would've been more obvious.

 

46 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:

Come to think of it we haven't heard much from regular kid Cal, he's either away, or running ahead, or fevered.

Now I feel sorry for the young actor. For all we know, he could be another Ian Armitage but with meaningless lines.

 

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

I totally assumed that one (or both) of Vance’s minions tipped off the lab site and that’s why they got moved. The question is simply which minion (if it’s not both).

There were 2 minions? The one I pegged was this guy, who reminded me of this guy, who ran the UFO Center in the old Roswell TV show.

Edited by shapeshifter.
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One thing I liked about this episode is that after showing us things from the protagonists' point of view (mostly Ben and Michaela), this week they showed us what their theories sound like to people who weren't on the plane and haven't been privy to the way they've been realizing all the weird stuff that's happened to them.

For Jared, he's seen his ex skulking around and then miraculously solving cases (or botching them) and then she has him drive around until they find a black ops site. When he confronts her about it, she says she's been hearing voices but can't explain what that has to do with the farm with the red door.

For Grace, Cal suddenly gets sick and what she sees is Ben running off without telling her. When he comes back, he says that he doesn't think there's a medical reason for Cal's new illness and his explanation is (and this is a word for word quote): "Look, Michaela just found what we've been looking for. Grace, the government didn't release all the passengers. Some they sent to a a farm upstate and I think they're experimenting on these people and Cal is somehow channeling what they're going through up there."

Of course these things sound crazy to people who haven't experienced the voices and seen what happens when they listen (or don't listen) to the voices.

Similarly, Vance has been painted as the bad guy who has sent people to watch the passengers and hasn't given them any answers. But this week we learned that he has been kept in the dark too and, like Ben and Michaela, is trying to figure out what happened on the plane, as well as what's going on now. He wasn't stonewalling Ben at their meeting. He genuinely did not know that a bus with eleven passengers just disappeared.

It will be interesting to see where this all goes now that Jared and Grace are more clued in. I think Jared will be a lot more apt to help Michaela because he's seen what the voices have led her to. Even if he is skeptical about her hearing voices, he knows that she found the missing girls and that she somehow led them to the farm. Grace may have a harder time accepting it though. I think she will say something along the lines of "I think YOU believe it's true" but not fully believe him, mostly because she hasn't seen any of the other stuff.

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10 hours ago, stealinghome said:

You know, Jared and Grace, you’re not sending the right message when you say “tell me anything about the plane and what’s been happening! Loop me in!” and the moment they loop you in you say “what the fuck, you’re crazy!” A plane just reappeared after 5.5 years missing and suddenly passengers hearing voices is the thing that you can’t believe? Really? REALLY?

And cutting Ben off each time he tried to explain it further. I hate those kinds of conversations - both on tv and in real life.

6 hours ago, izabella said:

I got the impression that the secret lab experimenting on the passengers closed up shop because they were tipped off.  If so, that means someone on the NSA director's staff did that,right? 

I thought "horses" instead of "zebras" - they clearly saw Michaela taking pictures of the Red Door - so they hightailed it out of there.

1 hour ago, fauntleroy said:

Convenient that not only a translator was on board, but a translator of Bulgarian! Or do they think translators can just translate all languages.

I had to laugh at that one too. Though, to be fair, many translators speak more than two languages.

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23 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It will be interesting to see where this all goes now that Jared and Grace are more clued in. I think Jared will be a lot more apt to help Michaela because he's seen what the voices have led her to. Even if he is skeptical about her hearing voices, he knows that she found the missing girls and that she somehow led them to the farm. Grace may have a harder time accepting it though. I think she will say something along the lines of "I think YOU believe it's true" but not fully believe him, mostly because she hasn't seen any of the other stuff.

Agreed—I thought this episode drew a strong contrast between Jared and Grace. Jared has seen Michaela acting way weirder than Grace has seen Ben act, and Michaela’s misinterpretation of the vision *actually* screwed over Jared bigtime at work last episode. Yet Jared remains ride or die for Michaela—he goes with her to look for that upstate black ops site, and he gives her more of a chance to explain what’s going on. 

Grace, on the other hand, who has in no way been negatively affected by what the 828ers are going through, basically slams the door on anything Ben tries to say or do and just bitches at him for not doing the things she wants him to do/the way she wants him to do them. And she takes a really catty, bitchy swipe at Saanvi to boot for no apparent reason—the woman who is *solely responsible for Cal being in this miracle cure program to begin with*, mind. Ben can be self-righteous but man, Grace blew him out of the water this episode. And I have to think that Grace’s not-so-attractive behavior juxtaposed against Jared’s relatively better behavior is intentional.

The show continues to drop anvils that Michaela/Jared is endgame and Ben/Grace are done. I’d be fine with them stretching the inevitable Ben/Saanvi romance out for a while, though. They’re fun as friends and these writers suck at romance so what make Ben and Saanvi fun right now will inevitably be ruined once the romantic drama starts. (Him bringing her the cactus was absurdly cute!)

Edited by stealinghome.
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Probably not a good sign when I saw "Manifest" on my DVR this morning and thought "wait, what is that?" The thing is, I'm disappointed because I think there is a better show to be made out what happened and the basic core plot they had to work with. I get the feeling the show is trying to be too many things at once. 

Edited by I-Kare.
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6 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

I'm really not a fan of when shows do the whole "tell just enough information so that the other person can misconstrue what you're saying and then don't fix your problem." 

That was definitely the most frustrating thing about this episode.  When Jared asked about the secret facility, there was no reason why Michaela couldn't start by explaining the fifth bus that was missing.  Start with the believable and then work backwards.  Ben's explanation was even worse.

I suppose we're supposed to believe that Grace was acting that way since she was so hurt by Ben before, when he "went down the rabbit hole" to find a cure for Cal.  Grace also seems incredibly needy and requires someone to be beside her 24/7.  Right after the plane's disappearance, she couldn't even find the strength to take care of her daughter.  I guess that was something Danny was able to do for her?  But Danny didn't need to deal with a crisis that needed to be solved.  

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I had a hard time watching so I didn't finish the episode. A lot of my frustration lays with the Grace/Ben scene in the hospital.

Grace: We need to be partners on helping Cal!
Ben: I agree. I want to find out what's wrong with Cal, but I'm not sure you'll believe me.
Grace: You need to talk to me. I will believe you.
Ben: Ok. I think what's going on with Cal has to do with the plane. 
Grace: HOW DARE YOU BE A SCIENTIST RIGHT NOW? FOCUS ON CAL. BE A DAD AND FIND OUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH HIM, NOT ABOUT THAT STUPID PLANE.

That was ESSENTIALLY the conversation that got me to almost stop watching the show entirely. Hey dipshit Grace, you just saw your family appear five and a half years later without having aged a day. Your husband is trying to tell you that something supernatural may be at play and be the cause for Cal's fever and you're yelling at him about not being a dad? Who got frozen in time for the last five and a half years, because it sounds like it's been you. 

It also doesn't help that I couldn't care less about Cal and it's clear the show is turning the focus on him as the focal mystery point. 

Michaela's fine without Jared around. Jared pisses me off more than Michaela. Grace pisses me off. The only characters I actually like are Olive and Saanvi, and sometimes Ben.

I'll keep watching for a bit but my interest is wavering.

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1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Similarly, Vance has been painted as the bad guy who has sent people to watch the passengers and hasn't given them any answers. But this week we learned that he has been kept in the dark too and, like Ben and Michaela, is trying to figure out what happened on the plane, as well as what's going on now. He wasn't stonewalling Ben at their meeting. He genuinely did not know that a bus with eleven passengers just disappeared.

He wasn't stonewalling, but he sure was ridiculing Ben.  He didn't act like someone who wanted to look into anything - he wanted Ben to stop looking into it or thinking anything of it.

Edited by izabella.
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31 minutes ago, I-Kare said:

Probably not a good sign when I saw "Manifest" on my DVR this morning and thought "wait, what is that?" The thing is, I'm disappointed because I think there is a better show to be made out what happened and the basic core plot they had to work with. I get the feeling the show is trying to be too many things at once. 

All valid points^ about the show not being anything great, but, hey, as of this moment, this episode thread has one of those flaming hot icons. There's a college paper waiting to be written that compares statistics of fan posts with show longevity.

 

14 minutes ago, Camera One said:

we're supposed to believe that Grace was acting that way since she was so hurt by Ben before, when he "went down the rabbit hole" to find a cure for Cal.  Grace also seems incredibly needy and requires someone to be beside her 24/7.  Right after the plane's disappearance, she couldn't even find the strength to take care of her daughter.  I guess that was something Danny was able to do for her

Yes. On a different version of this show, there would be no Danny, and Saanvi would be matronly, with the end game being Ben and Grace renewing their vows. But instead, Athena Karkanis is once again playing a despised character—like she did in Zoo—which did not help ratings. IMO, they better get her together with Danny—mostly off screen—stat. Or else have Danny and Saanvi eaten by extra-terrestrials.

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5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

All valid points^ about the show not being anything great, but, hey, as of this moment, this episode thread has one of those flaming hot icons. There's a college paper waiting to be written that compares statistics of fan posts with show longevity.

 

True! But it seems most folks are coming to say how irritated they are. Not exactly the kind of flames the show probably wants. 

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21 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

That was ESSENTIALLY the conversation that got me to almost stop watching the show entirely. Hey dipshit Grace, you just saw your family appear five and a half years later without having aged a day. Your husband is trying to tell you that something supernatural may be at play and be the cause for Cal's fever and you're yelling at him about not being a dad? Who got frozen in time for the last five and a half years, because it sounds like it's been you.

I was going to post something similar. I hate her so much. She’s like open up to me, I will believe anything. Wait what? You're crazy how dare you not sit here and wring your hands about our son and not really do anything.

Jared is an idiot. The NSA wanted you to spy on her and you are surprised about a government black site? You must be a really shitty cop. 

Edited by biakbiak.
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2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Him bringing her the cactus was absurdly cute!)

I had to laugh, because the first time I lived alone, I managed to kill a cactus by neglect. 

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11 hours ago, Camera One said:

I liked Grace in previous episodes but she was working my last nerve in this one.  I get the dilemma with the antibiotics but when she found out it was viral, she was pretty much blaming everyone around her, including Saanvi.  I couldn't believe she said, "I'm done with you" to her.  And accusing her of "encouraging" Ben?  Huh?  

 

Seems as though Grace senses their connection and feels a bit jealous, like an outsider looking in. Not a romantic connection (yet!), but Ben, Saanvi, and Cal shared an experience that has created a bond that she isn't a part of. And now, Saanvi was instrumental in getting Cal into this cancer study/trial that seems to be helping him. It's probably hard for a mother to watch another woman be her son's hero(ine).

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1 hour ago, TVForever said:

It's probably hard for a mother to watch another woman be her son's hero(ine).

Well given that Ben actually has to watch his daughter actually consider another man her dad she can go fuck herself.

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15 hours ago, stealinghome said:

You know, Jared and Grace, you’re not sending the right message when you say “tell me anything about the plane and what’s been happening! Loop me in!” and the moment they loop you in you say “what the fuck, you’re crazy!” A plane just reappeared after 5.5 years missing and suddenly passengers hearing voices is the thing that you can’t believe? Really? REALLY?.

Right? I think when you live in a world where a plane reappears after five years with nobody on it having aged, you lose the right to call anything unbelievable. It's like when Claire shows disbelief dragons exist on the first season of Iron Fist and I'm sitting there like, "You live in a world where a billionaire genius flies around in a tech super-suit, a scientist turns into a green rage monster, Norse gods are realm, aliens attacked NYC and a robot tried to cause mass extinction. Yet you draw the line at dragon?"

I really like Ben with Saanvi. I wouldn't mind seeing him and Grace go their separate ways and him starting a relationship with her, but am weary of the drama and angst it would cause.

Really liked Michaela and Jared teaming up and the bit of improv about the flat tire to throw the people off their trail. You can see how they would have worked as a couple.

Liked how Vance is starting to realize something fishy is going down. I noticed they did lay the hint that he might not know everything when he's complaining about a report being buried in a dump of documents.

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34 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Well given that Ben actually has to watch his daughter actually consider another man her dad she can go fuck herself.

So true. There is a bit of a difference though. Ben came home to find a new family (Grace, Boyfriend, and Olive) formed in his absence, and admittedly a daughter who's completely different from the little girl he left in the airport. He doesn't really know this teenager. On the other hand, Grace is suddenly in the exact same place with the exact same little boy she thought she'd lost. She and Ben had been doing battle against their son's illness, now there's suddenly this new woman in the mix, who she really doesn't know, but who is making a lot of moves to help Cal. And Ben, who clearly trusts her.

And, if what so many of us are speculating comes to pass, she's also witnessing the beginnings of THEIR new "family" (Ben, Saanvi, and Cal), bonded over their shared experience which doesn't include her.

Trust me, Grace did herself no favors with me this episode. She came off as petty, insecure, and needy (" I needed you, and you weren't here for me") No Grace, he was out trying to save your son's life! And he told her as much, though he could have been more forthcoming with the details.

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My heart grew three sizes at reading how much hate Grace is getting.

She's horrible and mindbogglingly selfish. Let the hate flow through you.

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10 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

My heart grew three sizes at reading how much hate Grace is getting.

She's horrible and mindbogglingly selfish. Let the hate flow through you.

She literally has no redeeming qualities to the point that I have no idea if it’s intentional or if the writers don’t get that she isn’t a sympathetic character. I bet that somewhere down the road she is going to sell out Ben et al to the big comanpy behind it all because she thinks it can save Cal.

Edited by biakbiak.
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2 hours ago, TVForever said:

And now, Saanvi was instrumental in getting Cal into this cancer study/trial that seems to be helping him. It's probably hard for a mother to watch another woman be her son's hero(ine).

I would think having the other woman (presumably) save her son's life would soften the blow.

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I really dont want to hate Grace. She is, on paper, a very sympathetic character. She lost a husband, son, and sister in law all in one fell swoop, leaving her as a single parent to a grieving child. Then, after she finally started to rebuild her life, they all show up in a mysterious event that no one, not even them, can explain. Thats a lot to take in, and I should feel for her, but...I just cant. Its probably because she doesn't really seem to care very much about what her family is going through. Like she is mainly annoyed that Cal and Ben are back and messing up the new life she created. She comes off as very self centered, leaving both Ben and her boyfriend in this weird relationship no mans land where neither of them know where they stand with her, and she commits to neither of them. Maybe its the acting, or the writing, or both, but I just cant with her. 

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What I can't believe is the lousy quality of the picture that Michaela took.

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10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe I missed the significance of Bulgarian guy patting Cal on the head/making physical contact and his Cal channeling because NBC kept breaking up?
Did the rest of you catch it?

I got that he was in Cal's head from what he said about being in a hospital, but I didn't connect his having patted him on the head with why he connected to Cal in particular (besides 'main special child character so who else would it be?') until I read the comment here.

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32 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I really dont want to hate Grace. She is, on paper, a very sympathetic character. She lost of husband, son, and sister in law all in one fell swoop, leaving her as a single parent to a grieving child. Then, after she finally started to rebuild her life, they all show up in a mysterious event that no one, not even them, can explain. Thats a lot to take in, and I should feel for her, but...I just cant. Its probably because she doesn't really seem to care very much about what her family is going through. Like she is mainly annoyed that Cal and Ben are back and messing up the new life she created. She comes off as very self centered, leaving both Ben and her boyfriend in this weird relationship no mans land where neither of them know where they stand with her, and she commits to neither of them. Maybe its the acting, or the writing, or both, but I just cant with her. 

My sister would be exactly like that, so, even though I find Grace's behavior to be irritating, frustrating, annoying, and maybe even infuriating (when she was neglecting Olive in the flashback), I can ultimately just look at her as a person with mental health issues who is in a situation way beyond her coping skills.

No, Grace is not the reason I would quit this show. 

But government scientists behaving like Nazis treating people like Guinea pigs? That is why I might stop watching. It's just as stupid as torture. They are not going to learn anything of value that way. I'll give the show one more episode to have the cavalry (or Cal) ride in for the rescue, but that's about it. 

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10 hours ago, Camera One said:

I suppose we're supposed to believe that Grace was acting that way since she was so hurt by Ben before, when he "went down the rabbit hole" to find a cure for Cal.  Grace also seems incredibly needy and requires someone to be beside her 24/7.  Right after the plane's disappearance, she couldn't even find the strength to take care of her daughter.  I guess that was something Danny was able to do for her?  But Danny didn't need to deal with a crisis that needed to be solved.  

Danny came into the picture 2 years after the plane disappeared.

And, this is the only area I can't fault Grace in. My dad died when I was 8 years old---I don't have any memories of my mom for a solid year after his death. I was either with my grandparents or my aunts and uncle. My mom could not function. What she experienced, is pretty normal. 

32 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

My sister would be exactly like that, so, even though I find Grace's behavior to be irritating, frustrating, annoying, and maybe even infuriating (when she was neglecting Olive in the flashback), I can ultimately just look at her as a person with mental health issues who is in a situation way beyond her coping skills.

No, Grace is not the reason I would quit this show. 

But government scientists behaving like Nazis treating people like Guinea pigs? That is why I might stop watching. It's just as stupid as torture. They are not going to learn anything of value that way. I'll give the show one more episode to have the cavalry (or Cal) ride in for the rescue, but that's about it. 

This is me. Like, I don't get the why part---and electroshock? What do they hope to achieve? 

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10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'll keep watching for a bit but my interest is wavering.

Exactly, my thoughts at this point.

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18 hours ago, izabella said:

I got the impression that the secret lab experimenting on the passengers closed up shop because they were tipped off.  If so, that means someone on the NSA director's staff did that,right? 

Absolutely! And it's the guy that's working close with Vance. he's been way too cynical of all the evidence that Ben showed up with. Too bad for him, they found the bandage with blood.

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