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S05.E02: Blocked

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As Barry helps his daughter, Nora, become a better speedster, he and Team Flash also track down a meta stealing high-tech weapons, only to cross paths with a new foe named Cicada (Chris Klein), who is hunting the very same meta with nefarious intent.

Kim Miles directed the episode written by Eric Wallace & Judalina Neira
Original airdate 10/16/2018

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Edited by Trini.
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Episode threads are for episode discussion.  They are not for comic discussion, spoilers, previews, or convincing posters that their opinions are wrong.  We have threads for comic and spoiler discussions.  If you wish to reference comics, previews, or spoilers, that's allowed but they must all be tagged as spoilers and they cannot move discussion from the episode itself.  Posts that fail to use the spoiler tag will be hidden and repeat offenders will be warned.

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Barry was not with you in fourth grade, Joe! You took him in when he was eleven. That’s fifth grade! Why am I the only one remembering this? All you had to do was change one word, writers. One word. Get a continuity editor.

Cisco and Caitlin’s friendship is one of those things this show has never screwed up and I love them for that. 

Did we see open honesty about time travel shenanigans and death/disappearances in the West-Allen family? Character growth, yay!

They're continuing to make me pity the villains when they die, and I found this chick annoying and boring up til the end. But that angle on that stab was beautifully horrifying. So disturbing. And I love when Barry has to rescue the villains.

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This episode didnt grab me as much as the first one did. They really find any way to make sure they get Ralph into a scene. Ciscos mourning of his relationship with Gypsy is something that I am fairly over by now.

How old is Nora supposed to be again? I like her but I feel like she might as well be a 16 year old with the way she acts. 

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OK did anyone notice that Joe never left that coach? It got to a point that I'm wondering if Jesse Martin is injured in a way and couldn't shoot a scene standing. 

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I really could care less about Cecile/Joes storyline with their baby and being sad about losing your telepathic link with your daughter. 

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Is Joe on paternity leave?  He seems to be spending a lot of time lounging around the house these days.

So Cicada proves that Team Flash is pretty helpless without their powers.  I wasn't expecting the first encounter to be this fast but on the plus side he doesn't seem willing to murder a man in front of his daughter.

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The majority of Nora’s time here she has been a liability to Barry in the field and on 3 occasions or more she has gotten him dropped on his ass. Yet, Barry hasn’t voiced his displeasure or benched her. How was she able to be a guardian/hero in her time?

Cisco’s moping/rebound intervention/change of style and Cecile being distraught for not having powers to be a “perfect parent” were worthy of fast forwarding.  

I wonder how the taxpayers feel about the mayor not giving money to the police to help solve crimes.

Captain Singh’s hair piece was terrible.

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2 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

So Cicada proves that Team Flash is pretty helpless without their powers.  I wasn't expecting the first encounter to be this fast but on the plus side he doesn't seem willing to murder a man in front of his daughter.

Looks like there's a connection between Nora and Cicada, so those of us who speculated that there'll be more to Nora's story than the premiere might have been on to something. #justsaying 😙

I was a bit disappointed that they encountered Cicada so early. If they want to mimic Season 1 then they should remember that that season worked so well because they didn't reveal the Big Bad until halfway through the season. They should have left it at Iris investigating his murders and piecing something together, with a revelation occurring just before the mid-season finale or at least 5 episodes into the season, instead of draaaaaging this through 21 episodes. 

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10 minutes ago, ursula said:

OK did anyone notice that Joe never left that coach? It got to a point that I'm wondering if Jesse Martin is injured in a way and couldn't shoot a scene standing. 

Did he stand in episode one either??  Still I enjoyed this epi as well.. I thought all the characters worked well I even enjoyed ralph

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11 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

Cisco’s moping/rebound intervention/change of style and Cecile being distraught for not having powers to be a “perfect parent” were worthy of fast forwarding.  

which is what I did. 

9 minutes ago, ursula said:

Looks like there's a connection between Nora and Cicada

When she yelled "Dad." He looked up. Maybe he's her stepdad in the future. LOL

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16 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

How old is Nora supposed to be again? I like her but I feel like she might as well be a 16 year old with the way she acts. 

Not exactly sure, but she's definitely in her mid twenties.She had to have been born between 2018 and 2024. Judging by her not knowing her father before he disappeared in 2024, it's likely that she was born after 2020. She traveled 30 years into the past, so I'd put her between 24-27. 

10 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Is Joe on paternity leave?  He seems to be spending a lot of time lounging around the house these days.

Well, in The Flash time, not a lot of time has passed. Jenna was only born about a week ago, show-time. So it makes sense for him to be around and not working. 

I did actually really like the episode for a few reasons:

  • Barry and Nora told everyone the truth right away! Yeah! See what you can do when secrets are laid out in the open? There was still stuff they could pull from that, like Iris' reaction!
  • Iris got to be a reporter! Yay! She actually got scenes of her hunting down a story!
  • Caitlin/Cisco's friendship wasn't forgotten and got to be utilized. Furthermore, they used Ralph right, where he wasn't used too much and was a supporting character. 
  • Speaking of Caitlin/Cisco, their scene in Jitters was on point. One of the few times I was impressed by DP's acting. Plus, minimal to no talk about KF, which is a plus. 
  • An actually interesting villain! Hello man with the creepy staff thing!
  • I didn't hate the Joe/Cecile scenes, so that's a plus. Also baby Jenna is adorable. 
  • Team West-Allen!

I know there were plenty more that I liked. I did have some minor issues, such as Nora's incompetence when she's supposed to be the one who saved her city in her time. Just because she was finally with her dad doesn't mean all of her previous skills should just disappear. Also, I didn't care for Cecile losing her powers because not everyone needs to have powers.

I am curious to the aftermath of that fight with Cisco and Cicada, as it seems like it directly affected Cisco's powers. So that is definitely concerning, as is Nora's connection to Cicada. She yelled Dad, he looked up and then...stopped and walked away? 

Otherwise, a strong episode.

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25 minutes ago, ursula said:

OK did anyone notice that Joe never left that coach? It got to a point that I'm wondering if Jesse Martin is injured in a way and couldn't shoot a scene standing. 

He was standing outside the door during the scene where Cecile was standing at the baby’s crib, but he really didn’t move at all.

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Hi all! Haven’t been here in a while.

First thoughts, since I want to get some sleep!:

-I did enjoy the episode, but maybe because last week’s episode was so great, this one didn’t quite reach the feels of that one.

-I wish they’d had focused more on the Barry and Nora story here. I get that they want to give everyone something to do and that last week was all about Nora too, but at the moment that is the most intriguing story to me. It just felt like there was too much going on in the rest of it. Not everyone needs to have something going on every episode. They can still have meaningful interactions and contributions without a separate sl.

-Liking Cicada as a villain so far

-Nora is really scared of Cicada. What knowledge does she have?

-Iris investigating!

-Still very curious about what’s going on with Iris and Nora in the future. Her attitude suggests something more than the conclusion Iris reached

I don’t have a post  (yet?) in last episode’s thread, but let me just say here that Nora is a great addition to the show and her being from the future and them allowing timetravel back has made everything just a little bit more intriguing.

-Speaking of, is that really all the reaction we’re going to get to the 25 years missing article? Surely not?

Excited for next week’s episode.

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32 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Team West-Allen!

A very childish look from Nora when Iris shouted the name. I hope whenever it's revealed of what Iris has done to her exceeds the build up it's getting in these episodes.

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44 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

Speaking of, is that really all the reaction we’re going to get to the 25 years missing article? Surely not?

It's not exactly a pressing issue (although it is worth more of a mention) and based on the intros in episode 1 it sure sounds like Nora got to grow up with everyone else still around.  So if anyone dies it's your fault for screwing up the timeline, kid!  You'd be a chip off the old block.

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"Tonight, on 'How Cisco Got His Vibe Back' . . ."

Good table-setter, as Barry and Nora get used to each other, Cisco slowly recovers from his breakup, and we get a name for the Big Bad: Cicada. Okay, not the most intimating name, but the power-stealing with the lightning-shaped dagger makes up for it.

I can't hate Ralph for trying to snap Cisco from his funk. I know Ralph is a putz on a good day, but I don't think he's that big of a drag. Just found up he whispered "Han shot second" to Cisco to get a rise out of him. I couldn't make that out, but it was pretty clever.

Cecile with no powers? Not seeing the problem. Kinda hoping she can advance, character-wise, without her dying or getting killed in a horrifying manner to unite Team West-Allen.

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Damn it Bar...I mean Nora! Now I suspect that Cicada tagged along with Nora somehow when she came to the past, and thats how he ended up here. Or something. She definitely has some connection to him. Intriguing! 

Whats this? Team Flash actually telling each other the truth and letting all the information out in the open? For everyone in affects? What spore of madness is this?!?! Seriously though, it was great to see them actually communicating and sharing everything with the whole team. I wish they had discussed things more, but its true, they have changed that paper several times before, she why not do it again?

Cicada seems like a cool villain. He is so creepy and his attacks so violent, he even makes me feel a bit bad for the bad guys of the week he kills! Also, nice to see that thugs of Central City are an equal opportunity employer, both with the main bad guy, and the gun runners mook squad.

I like the dynamics between Iris/Nora/Barry, and really want to know more. I can see why Nora wants to spend so much time around her father, who she has idealized as this perfect amazing person and hero who died tragically before she got to know him, and now gets a chance to spend time with him, but its so sad seeing Iris try to reach out, and struggling. I doubt that Iris is some awful parent, but relationships between parents and kids can be complicated, especially when you arent the sainted dead parent, so who knows what happened? I also thought Joe and Barry's conversation about how Barry tried so hard to impress him the way Nora was trying to impress Barry was sweet.

The Ralph/Cisco/Caitlin stuff was pretty good, and I much prefer this use of Ralph than last year, when he seemed to be hijacking the whole damn show. He works just fine as comic relief and using his skills as backup. I always love the Cisco/Caitlin friendship, even when its tied to Caitlin's missing dad, which I really dont care about at all. 

Not as good as last weeks episode, but still a good outing. Lets hope this season can keep the momentum up!

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1 hour ago, ursula said:

OK did anyone notice that Joe never left that coach? It got to a point that I'm wondering if Jesse Martin is injured in a way and couldn't shoot a scene standing. 

It was Jesse's version of "kneeling". He was protesting Cecile's storying line!

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What is the deal with Cisco this season ? Last episode he was hungover for the entire episode, and this episode he was mopey over Gypsy for the entire episode.
What's next week -- does the ficus plant in his apartment die ?

So, Cicada's blade only temporarily steals metahuman powers ?  How does that work exactly ?

I'm little confused about the meta of the week -- she tells the arms dealers that she came out of Iron Heights new and improved.  Did she not have meta powers going into prison, yet somehow got out with meta powers ?  How exactly ?  I also though that the boxes of air to be a pretty lame power, even if she could kill with it.

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Sorry I'm in the minority. Not happy about seeing Tom Cavanagh come back, and not loving Nora. Cisco continues to annoy and I wish he would cut his hair or do anything to look more manly and like a grown up.

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Best line of the night: "Han shot second!." Loved that.

And Iris and Caitlin exchanged two lines of dialogue directly to each other this episode - growth. You know who could totally understand Caitlin dealing with a dead parent suddenly not being dead? Iris. Too bad they're only work friends again.

I don't think Cicada is connected to Nora; she may know his public history, but that's it. Based on Cicada's comic history:

Spoiler

He had a wife who he murdered. In the comic con trailer, we saw a child's toy (it was a female doll) and other children's toys in the room that Cicada enters. Perhaps in this version, Cicada lost his child, probably a daughter. When Nora cries, "Dad" to Barry, it probably jolts Cicada into remembering that he was once a father.  That's why he doesn't kill Barry in front of Nora.

Edited by adora721.
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Interesting choice to have them meet the big bad villain so soon.  I'm surprised and hopeful this doesn't drag like the Devoe story after a point.

SO glad to see Iris investigating.  They actually showed it!  That said, I was hoping we'd see her in an investigative arc that slowly revealed the big bad instead of one episode.  That's ... cheap writing and kind of a waste.  

I love Cisco, lol.  But toward the end, it felt like they used his heartbreak and recovery efforts to eventually prop Caitlin's storyline.  I remember getting all excited at the focus being put on his emotions and then bam.  All roads led to Caitlin's arc.  Bet we don't hear a blip more about Cynthia from him.

I think whoever said that Nora would get a taste of reality about the real Barry is right.  She's had him on a pedestal and that's unhealthy.  Hopefully soon she grows up.  I feel like they write her like a teenager.  She's potentially nearly 28ish.  

I was sad for Iris seeing Nora so focused on Barry that there was no room for her with Nora.

I was glad Barry/Nora told the team but felt it was out of line to do that to Iris.  She deserved to hear that privately.  And I suspect her reaction is just her typical superwoman response - but in reality this has to be breaking her apart.  I hope the writers revisit this.  Nora almost seemed to think that Iris was handling it too well.  I think in Nora's time, Iris kinda fell apart once Barry vanished and didn't return... and that strained their relationship.  But even still - it's beyond trash not to tell Iris privately.  That's your wife, Barry.  You didn't just disappear as The Flash, you disappeared as Barry Allen, Iris' husband and Nora's father.  So, so wrong to lay that on Iris in a group setting where she might not feel comfortable expressing how she truly felt and instead put on a brave face.

The writers BETTER explore this - I will be livid if they keep up the "Strong Black Woman" trope where Iris is concerned.  That writer's room needs some black women writers.

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4 minutes ago, phoenics said:

All roads led to Caitlin's arc

This is very reminiscent of S3 with Cisco and Julian rallying around Caitlin to help with her Killer Frost problem. I wish Cisco would go see the therapist;  at least that would show he's dealing with the loss with a professional's help.  

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4 hours ago, ursula said:

OK did anyone notice that Joe never left that coach? It got to a point that I'm wondering if Jesse Martin is injured in a way and couldn't shoot a scene standing. 

 He's starting to remind me of Floyd from The Andy Griffith Show....always sitting, except when they occasionally prop him up in a doorway.  It's pretty obvious something's up.

1 hour ago, adora721 said:

This is very reminiscent of S3 with Cisco and Julian rallying around Caitlin to help with her Killer Frost problem. I wish Cisco would go see the therapist;  at least that would show he's dealing with the loss with a professional's help.  

 I'm sure they'll use it as an excuse to bring Dr. Angie back.  They seem to love that character almost as much as they love Wells.  

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It's take your daughter to work day on The Flash! The mentor/mentee developments were nice. Next we need to see some relationship growth between Nora and her other parent.

Speaking of Iris, Yay! to Reporter Iris, and Team (West-Allen) Leader Iris! Have we ever gotten a scene of Iris and Singh before? More of that please! I hope Nora avoiding Iris doesn't last much longer; but I'm glad we got a Joe/Iris scene.

I'm missing WestAllen/loft/kiss scenes.

The show really needs to work on making the villains/metas-of-the-week more compelling. It can be done, even with them playing out the season-long arc.

Barry was actually at a crime scene doing his job!!

So... Cicada's weakness is daughters?

ETA: I know Barry is more a lover than a fighter, but I thought he was a little better at hand-to-hand combat by now.


 

On 10/16/2018 at 9:21 PM, mxc90 said:

Cisco’s moping/rebound intervention/change of style and Cecile being distraught for not having powers to be a “perfect parent” were worthy of fast forwarding. 

I really, really wanted to skip past Cisco/Caitlin/Ralph, but I wanted to see Carlos and how they were going to resolve the breakup with Cynthia. I didn't mind Cecile subplot - as long as we never see those powers again!

More thoughts on Cisco/Caitlin later....

 

On 10/16/2018 at 11:00 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

I'm little confused about the meta of the week -- she tells the arms dealers that she came out of Iron Heights new and improved.  Did she not have meta powers going into prison, yet somehow got out with meta powers ?  How exactly ?  I also though that the boxes of air to be a pretty lame power, even if she could kill with it.

The whole meta story this week could have better. I too was confused - did her 'associates' really not know she had powers?

Edited by Trini.
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This episode didn't interest me as much as the first episode.

I know this is the flash but I am still taking a back by the way the show is writing for Nora. If she was a toddler when Barry disappeared. I believe this means she is in her late 20s but she acts very much like a teenager complete with her speech pattern. I hope they write her a little more her age as the episode goes. 

On the other hand, I like that they showed us the villain but I hope this is just the first half of the season villain because I am tired of season long villains.

Anyways, I love seeing Iris being a reporter and going on the field. I hope we get to see more of her on the field. I loved seeing Iris, Nora, and Barry work together. However, Nora had a expression on her face when Iris said, "Go Team WestAllen". I wonder what Nora's deal is when it comes to Iris. I hope we get to explore that more than anything else. I want them to have more scenes to be honest because I am very much intrigued by that future relationship. 

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Holy shit, y'all!  Barry and Nora actually went ahead and told everyone the truth already!  This is amazing!  Unheard of!  Miracles can happen!!

Anyway, I'm still enjoying Jessica Parker Kennedy as Nora, but right now it is already feeling like another variation of Barry/Ralph, where Barry finds himself having to play mentor towards a somewhat immature, potential protégé, who keeps going off half-cocked, screwing things up, and then gets all pity-party about it, and needs a pep-talk to recover and help save the day.  They've at least done a better job establishing why Nora is like this (Barry not being in her life, so she idolizes him), but I really hope they handle this better and do something new.  As of now, I'm way more interested in whatever is going on with her and Iris, because she clearly made a face when Iris said the whole "Go Team WestAllen", so this is way more then just her wanting to be closer to the parent she never knew.  As of now, I guessing it will either be a) Iris falls apart when Barry disappears and becomes a burden, b) Iris spends all her time trying to find Barry and Nora feel abandon or c) at some point, Iris will move on and find someone else, and Nora resents her for it.

Erin Cummings looked way different with that blonde look.  Always love seeing a former Spartacus actor in the DC shows, but her character ended up being kind of dull and unremarkable.

Damn, Caitlin, what did Cisco do to you to warrant putting him through the torture of having Ralph be his support system for his break-up with Gypsy?!  Kind of kidding!  I really hope they don't drag out Caitlin's undead father though.

Noticed that Joe seemed to not do much physical movement in this episode: he even wasn't at the crime scene like he usually is.  Granted, I only really noticed it since I was bored with the Joe/Cecile stuff, since it really jus boiled down to Cecile having to accept that you can parent your child without reading their minds.  You know, like pretty much every other parent in the world.

So, big baddie is called Cicada, and his dagger has a nifty power that seems to damper meta power, and allows him to kill them.  Also, he might have some kind of history with Nora since he stopped kicking the crap out of Barry and friends, once she showed back up. 

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2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

a) Iris falls apart when Barry disappears and becomes a burden, b) Iris spends all her time trying to find Barry and Nora feel abandon or c) at some point, Iris will move on and find someone else, and Nora resents her for it.

Could be.... or Barry and Iris have twins and after Barry dissapears the sibling and Iris are closer... We already know that Iris is the one who names Nora XS cuz she's always doing too much.. Maybe the sibling is a teacher's pet.. Who knows

 

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

since it really jus boiled down to Cecile having to accept that you can parent your child without reading their minds.  You know, like pretty much every other parent in the world.

I feel like many posters are just glossing over... She was already a bit scared to be having a kid at an advanced age ( IRL I think she may be in her 40s but she could be younger on the show who knows)  and then miraculously she can hear her kid and know exactly what she wants or needs she had that the whole time she was in there and even after.. So to all of a sudden start to lose that connection.. I dunno any parent who would give that up.. Especially with a newborn.. Maybe if ur kid is a toddler or older you may not wanna be in their head.. But the loss of that connection would freak me out 

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9 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

which is what I did. 

Our TVs suddenly became part of the "Speed Force" during that time!

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So what the heck is “schway?” (I have no idea how it is spelled). Is it a made up word from the future or is it really a word that my totally un-hip self has never heard before? For some reason it bugs the crap out of me whenever Nora says it.

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11 hours ago, mxc90 said:

A very childish look from Nora when Iris shouted the name. I hope whenever it's revealed of what Iris has done to her exceeds the build up it's getting in these episodes.

Looked like jealousy and Nora not wanting Iris to be included in whatever bonding she and Barry are doing. And as others stated, she’s acting like a teenager than someone who is supposed to be in her 20s. I’m totally Team!Iris here-and wanted to bop Barry for being oblivious to the distance and lack of bubbliness toward Iris.

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Whats this? Team Flash actually telling each other the truth and letting all the information out in the open? For everyone in affects? What spore of madness is this?!?! Seriously though, it was great to see them actually communicating and sharing everything with the whole team. I wish they had discussed things more, but its true, they have changed that paper several times before, she why not do it again?

<snip>

I like the dynamics between Iris/Nora/Barry, and really want to know more. I can see why Nora wants to spend so much time around her father, who she has idealized as this perfect amazing person and hero who died tragically before she got to know him, and now gets a chance to spend time with him, but its so sad seeing Iris try to reach out, and struggling. I doubt that Iris is some awful parent, but relationships between parents and kids can be complicated, especially when you arent the sainted dead parent, so who knows what happened? I also thought Joe and Barry's conversation about how Barry tried so hard to impress him the way Nora was trying to impress Barry was sweet.

HEE! I thought of you and your post from last week, railing at Barry for keeping another sekrit!😆😆😆 when the show opened with him and Nora revealing why she was there.

Barry didn’t die-he went missing. Kind of like MIA. 

Nora has done nothing to change my mind about her. Quite the opposite. Iris is in the dark about the emotional distance and I feel for her. Apparently Nora has all the time on her hands, so I don’t understand why she won’t also spend time with Iris.

I couldn’t care less or give any figgidity fucks about Cecile losing her powers and the whole whining speech about wanting to be perfect mom to this baby. Wonder how her daughter would feel about that-her grown up one.

The only reason I didn’t fast forward Cisco’s scenes was because I adore him. But Ralph is still useless detritus.

8 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

So what the heck is “schway?” (I have no idea how it is spelled). Is it a made up word from the future or is it really a word that my totally un-hip self has never heard before? For some reason it bugs the crap out of me whenever Nora says it.

It’s lingo for “cool” or awesome that was used in Batman Beyond and the writer clearly didn’t know that because they had Nora say it for EVERYTHING-cool, bummer, eeeww.🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Edited by GHScorpiosRule.
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Can I just reiterate AGAIN how tacky it was to reveal to Iris that Barry disappears and never comes back with everyone else present?  To them, he's The Flash disappearing.  But to Iris, her HUSBAND is gone and she's going to be a single mother.

Beyond WRONG for them to tell her along with everyone else.  Horrible writing.

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54 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Can I just reiterate AGAIN how tacky it was to reveal to Iris that Barry disappears and never comes back with everyone else present?  To them, he's The Flash disappearing.  But to Iris, her HUSBAND is gone and she's going to be a single mother.

Beyond WRONG for them to tell her along with everyone else.  Horrible writing.

Like I been saying.. Just give the black lightning folks one week on the flash and all this nonsense goes away

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Decent episode

Cicada is already a more sympathetic villain than The Thinker ever was. I liked how he hesitated when he heard Barry's daughter say "Dad". Curious to see how this pans out.

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1 hour ago, srpturtle80 said:

So what the heck is “schway?”

It's their "fetch".

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11 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

It's their "fetch".

I find how the show usurping this and its use schwarbage.*

*

Crotchety Bruce Wayne’s opinion of the Musical Terry took him to for his birthday in Batman Beyond

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5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I feel like many posters are just glossing over... She was already a bit scared to be having a kid at an advanced age ( IRL I think she may be in her 40s but she could be younger on the show who knows)  and then miraculously she can hear her kid and know exactly what she wants or needs she had that the whole time she was in there and even after.. So to all of a sudden start to lose that connection.. I dunno any parent who would give that up.. Especially with a newborn.. Maybe if ur kid is a toddler or older you may not wanna be in their head.. But the loss of that connection would freak me out 

I blame the writing/pacing. They are doing too many things too fast. Cisco's blues as a distraction from Caitlin's family drama could have lasted 2-3 episodes, with the B plot adding comedy to the show as we watch Cisco go down Ralph's list, with varying results. Cecile's mind-reading could have been stretched longer --- and that way its loss would have had more impact. And we could even see her and Iris having a conversation over their different relationships with their daughters. And again, Iris's investigations should have lasted longer than one episode.

They are burning through all the worthwhile plot and you know what that'll mean for the middle of the season.

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Can I just reiterate AGAIN how tacky it was to reveal to Iris that Barry disappears and never comes back with everyone else present?  To them, he's The Flash disappearing.  But to Iris, her HUSBAND is gone and she's going to be a single mother.

That's not quite true.  To Joe, this is his son disappearing (a father's worst nightmare).  To Cisco and Caitlin, it's like a brother disappearing.  It might not be the same impact but there's more than a professional "we're losing our city's hero" feeling here.  He should have told Iris privately but it's not like he's announcing this in front of Iris and Team Arrow.

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On 10/17/2018 at 12:32 PM, cambridgeguy said:

That's not quite true.  To Joe, this is his son disappearing (a father's worst nightmare).  To Cisco and Caitlin, it's like a brother disappearing.  It might not be the same impact but there's more than a professional "we're losing our city's hero" feeling here.  He should have told Iris privately but it's not like he's announcing this in front of Iris and Team Arrow.

I'm sorry but there's no comparison here. If (Heaven-forbid) my husband just found out he had a terminal disease, I'd expect him to tell me privately, one-on-one, and not in front of the "family". Joe isn't Barry's wife. Neither are Cisco or Caitlin. I'm not even touching Ralph. There's no comparison to the relationships he has with any of these people to the one he has with Iris - a woman with whom he's already been through so much. 

And the fact that he's shown to basically dismiss her feelings --- "Iris is a strong, black woman. She'll be fine" --- is doubly disturbing.

Edited by ursula.
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2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Can I just reiterate AGAIN how tacky it was to reveal to Iris that Barry disappears and never comes back with everyone else present?  To them, he's The Flash disappearing.  But to Iris, her HUSBAND is gone and she's going to be a single mother.

Beyond WRONG for them to tell her along with everyone else.  Horrible writing.

100% agree with this. It's like the writers forget that Barry/Iris/Nora are a family unit within the Flash family unit. Therefore, there are things that should be discuss between them only and things that should be discuss/reveal between them before the other family members get in the action. Like for me, this secret should have been told to Iris separately by Barry&Nora, then Joe. After that, they call a team meeting and tell the whole team. 

The way they did it totally took away the impact it should have on both Joe and Iris. It ruined it for me and made it less emotional/impactfully. 

Anyway, it's like the writers think the only one who needed/deserved to hear it in an impactful way was Barry. This makes me less hopeful about how they will write Iris part in this arc.

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23 minutes ago, ursula said:

I'm sorry but there's no comparison here. If (Heaven-forbid) my husband just found out he had a terminal diseased, I'd expect him to tell me privately, one-on-one, and not in front of the "family". Joe isn't Barry's wife. Neither are Cisco or Caitlin. I'm not even touching Ralph. There's no comparison to the relationships he has with any of these people to the one he has with Iris - a woman with whom he's already been through so much. 

And the fact that he's shown to basically dismiss her feelings --- "Iris is a strong, black woman. She'll be fine" --- is doubly disturbing.

I agree, also Iris is not only going to lose her husband but she will become a single mother to a speeders daughter, because of Barry's dispearance.  So yeah, the writers really messed up having Iris be told with the team. I wouldn't have blamed Iris if she had been annoyed with Barry doing it this way.

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I liked the episode.  I love that the secret lasted less than an episode since the Flash has a horrible track record with keeping secrets from Iris.  Its old and trite and I'm so glad that we are moving past it.  I was ok with them telling Iris about Barry disappearing in front of everyone because they are a family.  This is how most important future news is revealed.   Her being stoic about has very little to do with her being the strong black woman trope as it does with who Iris is as a character.  She is the type of person to bury her feelings and get on with it.  I definitely identify with the no sense in crying over spilled milk attitude.  Barry does enough of that for everyone.  Ymmv.  I think her true feelings about Barry disappearing will come out eventually.  They always do but hearing the news for the first time it is very in character for her to try to soldier through it.  I'm really happy that Iris has her own stuff to do.  Seeing her in action as a reporter was really great to see.  I also agree that it would be nice to see the characters have genuine relationships with each other.  We are five seasons in and they still feel very shallow to me.

I do feel like this was a filler episode.  The stuff with Cisco, Ralph, and Caitlin was so heavy handed and boring.  I feel like there are so many other things that they could be doing.  Cisco is one of my favorite characters and I'm sad that he's being wasted on storylines like this.  Caitlin unfortunately never gets a good storyline and I have made my peace with that.  Her daddy issues however are already too boring to watch.  You're a grown woman Caitlin, if it turns out your father wants nothing to do with you, you've been fine for this long, you will continue to be fine when the truth is revealed.  I don't understand why she didn't just ask her mother about it in the first place.

I do agree with everyone that Nora acts much younger than her age.  I'm not sure if that's just her go to demeanor around her Dad or really how she is in reality.  People tend to act differently when they are in awe of someone.  As Joe reminded Barry all she knows about Barry is how awesome he was.  Its hard to have perspective when that happens.  I do like Barry in the mentor role, I think he is very good at it but this is the third or forth time we've had a storyline about it and I can't help but feel that it was done better with Wally and Jesse.  The Ralph mentorship wasn't so great imo.  I would really like for her to interact with other members of the team.

The stuff with Cecille I can take or leave honestly.  I still feel like I don't really care about her too much.  I'm happy to see that Joe kind of has his own little family again but its kind of just there for me.  

I like Cicada so far.  I get the sense that his hesitation at the end came more from seeing Nora than her calling Barry Dad and her reaction to the name at the end of the episode spoke volumes.  I guess we will have to wait and see.

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I wished they'd handled it similarly to the Savitar killing Iris reveal in S3. Barry took Iris to the Time Vault and told her the truth alone. Iris had the chance to cry and break down and be comforted by Barry. Then once she regained her composure, she said, "We can't handle this alone." And they told the rest of the team together.  

In this case, telling her in front of everybody didn't allow Iris the option to show any understandable weakness or sorrow; she was in Team Leader mode. It's like Iris swallowing her feelings again like with grieving Eddie alone in S2 until very late in the season. Very poor writing choice indeed.

Edited by adora721.
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1 hour ago, SevenStars said:

Like for me, this secret should have been told to Iris separately by Barry&Nora, then Joe. After that, they call a team meeting and tell the whole team. 

Exactly!

Consider that neither Barry, Iris, Nora, Joe, nor Cecile knows about Caitlin's dead/not dead father situation or about the fact that she's been Killer Frost since childhood. If Barry knew that he wasn't responsible for making her KF, that would be a relief. And I'm sure the rest of the team would want to help, too.

However, the writing for Cait allows her to keep her stuff limited to just New Team Frost (NTF) of Caitlin, Ralph, and Cisco. That way, she can share with the others when she's ready. Plus, she had Cisco to comfort her when she broke down and shared her fears.

I'm not begrudging Caitlin her privacy or comfort, but Iris deserves the same.

Edited by adora721.
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I agree that it would have been much better if Barry and Nora would have told Iris in private. I guess they probably thought it would be too similar to the vault scene with Nora, and then they'd have to do another scene with the group.

About the other part of that private conversation, I feel conflicted about this, because I'm always up for Iris being vulnerable and I always want the writers to give her more room to express her feelings. I absolutely want her feelings on possibly losing Barry again, raising their daughter alone etc, but Barry is the one that disappears so I feel like if Barry had told Iris in private the focus for that first conversation shouldn't fully have been on Iris being comforted by Barry, but first confronting Barry's feelings about it and then Iris'. So mutual comforting :) Like I said, I'm conflicted about saying this, because as the main character Barry's feelings are always center and Iris' not as much, but it wouldn't feel completely right to me if that conversation became 100% about comforting Iris for losing Barry. Again I only mean it for that first conversation, I want all the stuff for Iris. The vulnerability, getting to speak her mind, the strength and then the doubt back to the strenght, fighting for her future, family and husband. I want to see her future self the same way we got to see Barrys. 

I guess for now I'm seeing past the not private reveal since I'm already anticipating some amazing scenes later on when it truly sets in. They're always so good in those scenes. The only real pebble in my shoe is that Barry and Iris haven't talked about it alone at all. I was really surprised that they didn't have Iris ask Barry in a quiet moment if he was doing ok. A quick, even if we decided we're going to change things, how are you dealing with the fact that you could possibly die in 6 years? And then Barry could ask her how she is doing etc, They both immediately put up a strong front in that group conversation. Iris was like, we'll change it! And Barry was like Ok! Moving on! (I'm glad Joe asked her how she was doing and Candice made the most of that moment.)

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Ever since last season, I suspected Iris was overprotective after Barry disappeared.  Now I think Iris fell apart at some point after Barry disappeared; maybe after it became clear he was not coming back.  I noticed that when Barry said said you know your mom she is strong Nora got that weird look again.  Everyone has a breaking point and Iris probably reached hers.

I am wondering if Jesse Martin is OK.  Besides the lack of movement something just felt off since last episode.   Totally love him calling Barry Bar and him being the one to get Barry to understand Nora's behavior.  I also liked that Barry was willing (to a point) to show her he was not perfect.  

Nora IMO was a bit more toned down than she was in the 1st episode.  She was still hero worshiping her dad, but I did not feel she was as over the top hyper about it as she was in the 1st episode.

I like Caitlin, but her not dead daddy does not interest me.  Her chat with Cisco in Jitters reminded me of why I liked their relationship.

Cicada should have seen Nora before she took Block away, so I think he  responded more to her Dad! than her presence.  I assume next week we will learn if he has some place in the museum as one of the worst villains in Flash history explaining why Nora looked very grim.  Based on his powers alone, I would say he is a formidable enemy.

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21 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Barry was not with you in fourth grade, Joe! You took him in when he was eleven. That’s fifth grade! Why am I the only one remembering this? All you had to do was change one word, writers. One word. Get a continuity editor.

In Joes defense, I would say 6th grade is 11years old. Perhaps Barry had a late bday or had been held back. Lol. Those blasted continuity fairies. I know boys tend to hit puberty later than girls but the child they had playing kid Barry looked closer to 8 than 11. 

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6 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

 I was ok with them telling Iris about Barry disappearing in front of everyone because they are a family. 

The writing keeps telling us that but they don't show us that. I don't get vibe they all see each other as family. The writing really doesn't support that. 

 

6 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

   Her being stoic about has very little to do with her being the strong black woman trope as it does with who Iris is as a character.  She is the type of person to bury her feelings and get on with it.  I definitely identify with the no sense in crying over spilled milk attitude.  

As a black woman, I do see this as the Strong Black Woman trope. And this isn't the first time. These writers always have Iris NEVER be bothered by anything. I want to see Iris express emotions. I'm tired of seeing her be everybody else's emotional punching. For once, I need Iris to be allowed tell us how she feels.

I liked the episode.

 

Nora was a bit annoying to me this episode. Of course, I got upset when she rolled her eyes at Iris. They need to hurry up and tell us what is going on.

Loved seeing Iris reporting.

I think this is the first time both subplots bored me. I didn't care about Cisco/Ralph/Caitlin nor Joe/Cecile. Their plots contributed to nothing. Easily fast forwarding

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