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S15.E04: Momma Knows Best

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Please keep this thread’s posts about events in this episode, not as a general discussion of all characters. Discussing events from earlier this season and how it relates to this episode are okay, but discussions on previous season plot lines are off-topic.

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On 10/11/2018 at 9:32 PM, hookedontv said:

You two, come have a drink with me. I felt bad (just a little) at how much I was hating on this kid in my head. His wide eyed, open mouth “duh” expression throughout the entire episode was just so bad. Not sure if the kid can’t act or if that’s what the writers intended, but it was very distracting. And yeh, the dad was treating him like a 5 year old too. 

Make me a drink too, please, because that kid irked my nerves so much, I searched  a placed out just so I could vent! I’ve been busy, so I was excited to finally kick back and catch up on Grey’s Anatomy with Hulu, but the last show with Max, had me heated! When they had this huge kid come from out the  ambulance, I was waiting to hear that he had some type of mental illness. I could deal with all the running and hiding and coddling if I knew he was on the spectrum or something. I hated that they had him act the way he did;a 10 year old, should know better than to be running and hiding all over a hospital and should definitely know not to leave somewhere, without letting a parent know. I feel like the show would have been better without him or at least with a younger child. 

 

I love Maggie, but I hated that she broke HIPPA. She’s too smart to be breaking simple rules. This entire episode was more frustrating than anything; too many people doing silly things for no reason.  

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Honestly, my 10 year old would have behaved that way. I don't go around telling everyone our struggles. He does not have a diagnosis of autism but does share many qualities. He runs or hides when angry or scared. Yes, he knows better but in the moment he has no control. We're working on it. It would be so much easier if I had a diagnosis but I don't so we just push on through. But reactions like this is exactly why I don't share and we becomes so isolated. 

 

The kid is 10. 10 is still a child. He saw his mom unconscious and knows she's about to die. Give him a break.

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Maggie shouldn't have broken HIPAA.  But I think just as bad is that Teddy was being treated by the head of cardio-thoracic surgery when the correct doctor for her problem was an obstetrician or at most a cardiologist.

Edited by statsgirl.
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3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Maggie shouldn't have broken HIPAA.  But I think just as bad is that Teddy was being treated by the head of cardio-thoracic surgery when the correct doctor for her problem was an obstetrician or at most a cardiologist.

Teddy asked to see the head of cardio because she was having a pulmonary issue, not a problem that was directly about her pregnancy (pregnant women are 5-10 times more likely to develop deep vein thrombosis but it does not directly affect the baby unless there are serious complications). Teddy was almost certain what the problem was and just needed someone to give her a prescription for a blood thinning agent to help dissolve the blood clot. Flying can also cause blood clots so Teddy knew she shouldn't fly again before taking a blood thinner.

Teddy: Hey, come here. Who's your head of cardio?
Casey: Dr. Maggie Pierce, ma'am.
Teddy: Are you military?
Casey: Yes, ma'am. Air Force.

Maggie: Dr. Altman?
Teddy: You're Dr. Pierce? Head of cardio?
Maggie: Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Teddy: What are you 19?
Maggie: No, I was 19 when I graduated from medical school, but I was 27 when they made me head of cardio. Are we both sharing our ages, or just me?
Teddy: Damn it. You're Grey's sister, aren't you?
Maggie: Why should that matter?
Teddy: All right. What I'm about to tell you, it falls under the category of doctor-patient confidentiality. Are we clear?
Maggie: Uh, yeah. Yeah, I'm clear on how the job works.
Teddy: Okay. Dr. Pierce, I'm 11 weeks pregnant. Yesterday, I flew 12 hours, and then participated in an eight-hour surgery, then slept for only three hours. Now I'm 95% sure that I've got a blood clot in my femoral vein, so I'm afraid I could throw a pulmonary embolism. So I'm hoping I'm hoping that you can confirm my diagnosis, write me a prescription for Heparin so that I can get back on a plane and get out of here without anyone else knowing.
 

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16 hours ago, taanja said:

It's like you are in my head. I agree with everything! Even the part about Jo bringing down my Alex interest.

Haha! especially to the bolded parts. Nope. Never gonna watch it. I can't turn the channel fast enough when it comes on.

Lol 

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12 hours ago, Court said:

The kid is 10. 10 is still a child. He saw his mom unconscious and knows she's about to die. Give him a break.

I agree.  The kid is about to lose his mom, so no wonder he's acting like he's losing his mind.  Also, as an adult I can't imagine riding in an ambulance with someone without being scared shitless, so I can just imagine how frightened he must have been to see his mom in that condition.      

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11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Maggie: No, I was 19 when I graduated from medical school, but I was 27 when they made me head of cardio. 

How did Maggie graduate med school only 4 years after graduating high school? I don't think you can skip years of med school. Did she completely skip undergrad?

Her back story is getting less and less believable. 

Edited by Layne.
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There's major chronological discrepancies with Amelia as well. She was supposedly doing her fellowship with that doctor, who fired her and then Charlotte hired her to work at St. Ambrose, and this was in 2010. But later episodes indicate that she was born in the late 70s or early 80s. My head-canon is that Amelia is about eight years older than the actress that portrays her.

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But why did Teddy need a chief od cardio if she only needed the confirmation of diagnosis and a prescription? She could have asked for any other cardiologist

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Because she was tired, frightened, and hormonal. She wanted to make sure somebody competent looked at her, not just a first-year resident. I don't fault Teddy for wanting a good doctor. Where she ran into trouble was knowing that Maggie has a connection to Owen and spilling more information than was probably needed. Although again see tired, hormonal and sick. I don't know about the rest of you but when I'm running on very little sleep I can run off at the mouth with very little provocation and that's without first trimester hormones chugging through my system.

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1 hour ago, Snow Fairy said:

But why did Teddy need a chief od cardio if she only needed the confirmation of diagnosis and a prescription? She could have asked for any other cardiologist

Because GSMH is a magical hospital staffed only by surgeons who treat everything from common cold to brain tumors. Also, each surgical department consists only of one person who is the chief of it. 

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9 minutes ago, Joana said:

Because GSMH is a magical hospital staffed only by surgeons who treat everything from common cold to brain tumors. Also, each surgical department consists only of one person who is the chief of it. 

Hahaha! OMG! Right!

Actually that is the one thing that consistently bugs the shit out of me. I have actually met surgeons-- worked with them -- they DO NOT do things like the surgeons on Grey's that's for sure. (Taking blood and or vitals? Pushing gurneys? Doing grunt work?)

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17 minutes ago, Joana said:

Because GSMH is a magical hospital staffed only by surgeons who treat everything from common cold to brain tumors. Also, each surgical department consists only of one person who is the chief of it. 

I wonder if the writers have ever heard of primary care practitioners and specialized doctors who focuses on these things NOT inside a hospital setting unless there is a good reason to.

I know I didn't word that very well; for a couple contexts:
In recent years, I've been having varying health issues. I brought up to my PCP about having a TBI when I was about 16 or 17 that went undiagnosed, so she referred me to a neurologist. He did an evaluation and came to conclusions, but due to my high anxiety and amount of time (17 years) that have elapsed, he decided against doing a scan.
The other thing that has been ongoing since last fall is my GI issues. I was diagnosed as having a gastric reflux disorder in my infancy, but the pains I've been experiencing have never been as severe as they have been in the past few years. She tried different medications and nothing seems to work. Finally, I got a referral to an GI specialist.

The "surgeons" on the show would have done the evaluation (if any at all) and the GI exam.

I'm probably a couple decades younger than the show's writers and I know this stuff. But that might be because I've been in and out of hospitals from a very young age due to complex medical issues. But still, isn't it common sense? /shiftyeyes

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so far I don't like linc, he seems like too much of a playa although I could be wrong, I don't want to see him flirting with Jo or her flirting with him an it wont happen if the writers do it correctly, Alex has been through a lot and I really like him, I don't want to see him hurt again

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7 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

But why did Teddy need a chief od cardio if she only needed the confirmation of diagnosis and a prescription? She could have asked for any other cardiologist

If Teddy had asked for the chief of cardiology, I wouldn't have complained.  A cardiologist is what she needed.

But she asked for a cardio-thoracic surgeon.  Who didn't even know as much about treating blood clots as a cardiology resident would.  The only point was so that Maggie would find out that she was pregnant with Owen's baby.

9 hours ago, Layne said:

How did Maggie graduate med school only 4 years after graduating high school? I don't think you can skip years of med school. Did she completely skip undergrad?

Her back story is getting less and less believable. 

Maggie most likely skipped a couple of years of elementary and high school and could have got into medical school after only 2 years of undergrad which is all some medical schools ask for.

A friend of my daughter's decided that she didn't want to take the time to do undergraduate work  and headed to the U.K. when she finished high school at 17.  It's one more year than here but she graduated at 22 or 23 as a full doctor.  Still, not 19 like Maggie is suppose to have done.

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16 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

But why did Teddy need a chief od cardio if she only needed the confirmation of diagnosis and a prescription? She could have asked for any other cardiologist

 

15 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Because she was tired, frightened, and hormonal. She wanted to make sure somebody competent looked at her, not just a first-year resident. I don't fault Teddy for wanting a good doctor. Where she ran into trouble was knowing that Maggie has a connection to Owen and spilling more information than was probably needed. Although again see tired, hormonal and sick. I don't know about the rest of you but when I'm running on very little sleep I can run off at the mouth with very little provocation and that's without first trimester hormones chugging through my system.

Yeah, Teddy most likely wanted a professional, competent and experienced doctor to treat her/prescribe the meds and not risk getting an intern/resident who couldn't keep their mouth shut about her presence/pregnancy... Oops.

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If Teddy had asked for the chief of cardiology, I wouldn't have complained.  A cardiologist is what she needed.

But she asked for a cardio-thoracic surgeon.  Who didn't even know as much about treating blood clots as a cardiology resident would.  The only point was so that Maggie would find out that she was pregnant with Owen's baby.

Actually, she asked for "the head of cardio", it's the intern who got Maggie and neither Maggie nor Teddy clarified she wanted a cardiologist, not a cardop-thoracic surgeon when Maggie arrived. But let's not forget, in the world of Grey's, there are only surgical departments (and psych & dermatology paradise) in the hospital and the hospital itself is being run by the chief of surgery.

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9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Maggie most likely skipped a couple of years of elementary and high school and could have got into medical school after only 2 years of undergrad which is all some medical schools ask for.

A friend of my daughter's decided that she didn't want to take the time to do undergraduate work  and headed to the U.K. when she finished high school at 17.  It's one more year than here but she graduated at 22 or 23 as a full doctor.  Still, not 19 like Maggie is suppose to have done.

She graduated high school at 15 and med school at 19. That leaves only 4 years for her to complete 4 years of undergrad + 4 years of med school. If you can't skip med school, she must have completely skipped undergrad. Or the writers just really suck at math. 

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14 hours ago, skermac said:

so far I don't like linc, he seems like too much of a playa although I could be wrong, I don't want to see him flirting with Jo or her flirting with him an it wont happen if the writers do it correctly, Alex has been through a lot and I really like him, I don't want to see him hurt again

Moved my answers to the spoilers/speculation thread.

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On 10/16/2018 at 9:59 PM, Court said:

Honestly, my 10 year old would have behaved that way. I don't go around telling everyone our struggles. He does not have a diagnosis of autism but does share many qualities. He runs or hides when angry or scared. Yes, he knows better but in the moment he has no control. We're working on it. It would be so much easier if I had a diagnosis but I don't so we just push on through. But reactions like this is exactly why I don't share and we becomes so isolated. 

 

The kid is 10. 10 is still a child. He saw his mom unconscious and knows she's about to die. Give him a break.

Share with everyone? No. But it is important to share with your childcare provider, even if that person is just watching them for a couple of minutes of hours, especially in a emergency situation were emotions are heighten. I work with kids, and if I had a child that bolted when they got frightened or angry, I would need to know. It’s not safe for everyone involved; diagnosis or not, if someone is going to work with your kids, those things are important. 

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On 11/10/2018 at 8:38 PM, Trillian said:

I hope Teddy finds out, successfully sues Maggie and that Maggie loses her licence or at least faces disciplinary action. Because that was totally beyond the pale for a professional

Now that's a story I would LOVE to see. And then we can get rid of her for good.

What's up with people not being able to keep secrets? I mean, not only as doctors, but as human beings. If someone tells you a secret, you keep it. You show loyalty, and dignity, and respect to that person. I mean, what if Teddy doesn't want to tell Owen ever? It's up to her. Her life, her decisions. It's not about you, Maggie. Be strong. Be an adult. And for God's sake, shut the f* up.

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Okay, if Teddy wasn't planning on ever telling Owen and didn't want him involved, then why did she come all the way to Seattle at the end of last season? She wasn't having health issues then and, if she was, I'm sure there's better hospitals in Germany.

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Does Teddy owe it to Owen to tell him that she's pregnant even though she thinks he's with Amelia, or should she just go back to Germany without him knowing?  [Discuss]

On 10/18/2018 at 9:29 AM, Layne said:

She graduated high school at 15 and med school at 19. That leaves only 4 years for her to complete 4 years of undergrad + 4 years of med school. If you can't skip med school, she must have completely skipped undergrad. Or the writers just really suck at math. 

If she went outside the US to Europe, she could have skipped undergrad entirely.  (Although it is doubtful a 15 year old would have been accepted.)

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15 hours ago, JNM5505 said:

Okay, if Teddy wasn't planning on ever telling Owen and didn't want him involved, then why did she come all the way to Seattle at the end of last season? She wasn't having health issues then and, if she was, I'm sure there's better hospitals in Germany.

She obviously was planning on telling him, but then she saw that he and Amelia are raising a baby, so she thinks it's their child and they're back together, so she changed her mind. It's clearly a misunderstanding that could very easily be settled with just a little basic communication, but if people actually communicated with each other, shows like this wouldn't exist. 

The whole thing is one of the most basic soap opera tropes. 

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Yes, it is. Still, if Teddy changed her mibf and decided she wants  to raise the baby alone and never tell Owen, it's her decision. You might agree on it or not, but no one should decide for her. 

I have kept secrets for people for so many years. It's about respect and loyalty. I know this is soap opera, it's just shocking to me how no one seems to care - or at least the authors don't care.

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19 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

Yes, it is. Still, if Teddy changed her mibf and decided she wants  to raise the baby alone and never tell Owen, it's her decision. You might agree on it or not, but no one should decide for her. 

But the problem there is that it's not just Teddy's life that is effected. Her child may want a father. That's a huge impact that she's deciding to make for another person who can't speak for themself and who is at the heart of the issue. Denying her child an involved and loving father because it's uncomfortable to deal with him is a poor choice. And quite frankly one of the reasons to think through sex and be responsible about your birth control! Sometimes sex has consequences that effect other people. You might end up permanently connected to someone awkward.

This isn't just Teddy's baby. It's Owens too. While she's pregnant, yes it is Teddy's healthcare and Teddy's body and ultimately Teddy's decisions. She can keep Owen at arms length the whole time. No doctor visits, no ultrasounds, not in the delivery room. That's fine. But once the baby is out, under the law Owen has equal rights to that child. He's not an unfit parent. Both parties were consenting at the time of conception. There is no leg to stand on that would justify keeping the baby a secret. I see a strong moral and ethical obligation to tell. It will be awkward and messy but it has to be done. It's only going to get worse the longer it goes.

And just to clarify, I'm a big fan of sex. I think it's fun and awesome and not anything shameful. But it has consequences and those really should be thought about before engaging. It's not wrong to have it, but stuff results.

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15 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If she went outside the US to Europe, she could have skipped undergrad entirely.  (Although it is doubtful a 15 year old would have been accepted.)

She went to Yale. 

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Personally, I think Teddy should tell Owen at some point. But what I'm arguing here is that she should be the one to tell. Not anyone else. If Maggie is so uncomfortable with the idea of the baby not having a father, she can talk to Teddy any time and discuss this with her. If she's worried about Amelia, again: talk to Teddy. And before someone says she tried to call, well, don't give up after a few calls. Wait patiently for an answet.

Seems to me she's only worried about herself: how difficult it is to hold a secret. Because she's 12.

Give another chance to thay boy, Meredith!

Edited by maddie965.
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9 hours ago, anna0852 said:

This isn't just Teddy's baby. It's Owens too. While she's pregnant, yes it is Teddy's healthcare and Teddy's body and ultimately Teddy's decisions. She can keep Owen at arms length the whole time. No doctor visits, no ultrasounds, not in the delivery room. That's fine. But once the baby is out, under the law Owen has equal rights to that child. He's not an unfit parent. Both parties were consenting at the time of conception. There is no leg to stand on that would justify keeping the baby a secret. I see a strong moral and ethical obligation to tell.

This.

While I would prefer the reveal be put off for as long as possible because I'm not going to enjoy seeing the fallout on the screen, the baby isn't Teddy's property.  It's not fair to either Owen or the baby not to tell him.

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Is there any scenario in the world Maggie doesn't turn into the Maggie show. She makes everything about herself. It's so exhausting. 

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On 10/17/2018 at 1:38 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Teddy asked to see the head of cardio because she was having a pulmonary issue, not a problem that was directly about her pregnancy (pregnant women are 5-10 times more likely to develop deep vein thrombosis but it does not directly affect the baby unless there are serious complications). Teddy was almost certain what the problem was and just needed someone to give her a prescription for a blood thinning agent to help dissolve the blood clot.

Since she just needed a prescription, why did she need the head of cardio? That kind of bothers me, because it's such an obvious set-up for future drama. Couldn't they have at least tried to be subtle about it?

Edited by marykat71702.
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On 15-11-2018 at 5:01 AM, marykat71702 said:

Since she just needed a prescription, why did she need the head of cardio? That kind of bothers me, because it's such an obvious set-up for future drama. Couldn't they have at least tried to be subtle about it?

Pretty sure she asked her to confirm the diagnosis Teddy suspected.

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