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S01.E03: Save the Date

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:
23 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

having been in the same position (the working parent with an at-home spouse), you can manage that just fine working normal hours - provided you keep your expenses in line with your income. (just like in the olden days when the man was the only income provider).

For me the big difference is that my parents' generation were able to afford to buy a house and two cars with just one parent working and live comfortably. Nowadays, it's nearly impossible to buy a house on one person's income, especially if you live in/near a large city like Boston (when my friend, who had no student loan debt because he'd been on full academic scholarship while in college, lived in LA about twenty years ago, he was making six figures and when he tried to buy a place, he realized that all he could afford was a shitty condo in a terrible neighborhood or something that would require over an hour to commute to/from work each day). And let's be real - Katherine and Eddie's house is clearly large and in a nice neighborhood so it must cost a lot), let alone support two adults and a child. Eddie's guitar lessons can't be bringing in a ton of money which explains why Katherine is sitting in bed working before 7am so that she can get two billable hours before she even gets to the office. The real estate market is just ridiculous these days, particularly if you live in a major city. Many of the people I know in California couldn't afford to buy homes until they had a spouse AND they moved out of state (and now they spend a lot of time trying to figure out a way to move back to San Francisco/Los Angeles/San Diego because they hate the weather in Reno/Nebraska/Minneapolis).

That's definitely a fair point. We are older, but we were living in the heart of Silicon Valley (and left it not quite 20 years ago), so even then it was difficult to make a mortgage on a single income. Nothing like today, of course. We lived in a very modest house, in a good neighborhood (that right now is within walking distance of Apple's new "spaceship" or whatever they call it). I just looked it up, and houses in that neighborhood are going for 1.5 to 2 million - and they're just mid-century ranches with low square footage. Almost makes me wish we'd stayed. We bought ours for under 200,000 in the 80's. I don't know how anyone can afford to live there if they are not in tech. And even then...

My point (though I didn't make it clear) was more that, as you point out, Katharine and Eddie's house is huge and in a nice neighborhood. If they could afford that house, they deliberately made a choice to have that big of an expense. They could have bought a decent house in a good, but not necessarily upscale, neighborhood.

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2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

See, to me that tells me she didn't love Jon. She’s no longer in love with him/loves him, feels neglected, so strikes out to have an affair to hurt Jon. That’s not love. It’s selfishness, because supposedly she was also friends with Katherine and she didn’t even think what this would do to her?

I will say that I did like Gary telling Maggie to come back when it was just fun, since she clearly is only interested in a superficial relationship. And he’s not interested in opening up and talking to her after her immature and jerky response to his simple inquiry about the panda.

I can see your point about Delilah, although I can also see the possibility that she did love Jon.  Neither scenario changes the fact that she chose to cheat on her husband (and, by extension, her family).  As we saw in the baseball scene in 1.2, it looks like she's the one who at least put things in motion that led the affair, even if she didn't directly instigate it.  I don't know, though, if she and Katherine were actually friends.  I think they were probably socially friendly, but I get the feeling that Katherine didn't have any actual friends in that group, except maybe Jon.

I also have to admit that I hate this thing that this show (as well as that, ahem, other show) does where they put someone on a pedestal because they are dead.  I get how it happens, but I think it is lazy storytelling.  I get that, for the premise to work, Jon has to be dead, but I would have liked a bit more about him in context.  I almost wish Jon had jumped at the end of the first episode rather than at the beginning so at least we would know a bit about what kind of person he was instead of funneling it all through everyone else's memories.  Oh, and flashbacks get old very quickly.

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2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I can see your point about Delilah, although I can also see the possibility that she did love Jon.  Neither scenario changes the fact that she chose to cheat on her husband (and, by extension, her family).  As we saw in the baseball scene in 1.2, it looks like she's the one who at least put things in motion that led the affair, even if she didn't directly instigate it.  I don't know, though, if she and Katherine were actually friends.  I think they were probably socially friendly, but I get the feeling that Katherine didn't have any actual friends in that group, except maybe Jon.

I also have to admit that I hate this thing that this show (as well as that, ahem, other show) does where they put someone on a pedestal because they are dead.  I get how it happens, but I think it is lazy storytelling.  I get that, for the premise to work, Jon has to be dead, but I would have liked a bit more about him in context.  I almost wish Jon had jumped at the end of the first episode rather than at the beginning so at least we would know a bit about what kind of person he was instead of funneling it all through everyone else's memories.  Oh, and flashbacks get old very quickly.

Agree with everything except the last line; I'm enjoying the flashbacks and I really hope we get more. I think they are filling in a lot of blanks, and I want more of Ron Livingston's Jon. 

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5 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Agree with everything except the last line; I'm enjoying the flashbacks and I really hope we get more. I think they are filling in a lot of blanks, and I want more of Ron Livingston's Jon. 

I like flashbacks in general, if they illuminate the main story and/or characters. I guess it's a matter of taste, since so many seem to hate them (across the forums).

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4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I like flashbacks in general, if they illuminate the main story and/or characters. I guess it's a matter of taste, since so many seem to hate them (across the forums).

I think flashbacks can be effective, but not as the main mode of storytelling (I will admit that AMLT is more restrained than TIU with them).  What I've noticed happens when so much of the story relies on flashbacks is that the current story (the "main story") not only stalls out while we are inundated with flashbacks but that it loses any momentum it had because all the emphasis is on the past story.

To be fair, this show has been at least better about it so far.  But we're only in the 3rd episode, and this is the first time I've actually felt any kind of movement in the story (it's also the episode with the fewest flashbacks)...which makes me worry.

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Flashbacks can seem like a retcon if they contradict everything the viewers have been lead to believe—which can be annoying. They haven't quite done that here, but it seems like they might be using flashbacks to fill in plotholes caused by not having the whole story ready for *ahem* prime time.

Lost also had "flash sideways," which, IIRC, were essentially alternate timelines/universes, but, like this show might have, turned out to be alt-scenarios in which no plane crashed/Jon didn't jump. Or were the flash sideways supposed to be afterlife?

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11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Flashbacks can seem like a retcon if they contradict everything the viewers have been lead to believe—which can be annoying. They haven't quite done that here, but it seems like they might be using flashbacks to fill in plotholes caused by not having the whole story ready for *ahem* prime time.

Lost also had "flash sideways," which, IIRC, were essentially alternate timelines/universes, but, like this show might have, turned out to be alt-scenarios in which no plane crashed/Jon didn't jump. Or were the flash sideways supposed to be afterlife?

I was never really clear on that (the flash sideways). I liked all of those fine. I hated, on the other hand, the Paulo whoever story, and the Alison Janney origin of the smoke monster stories.

I can understand the annoyance, but for me personally , unless something has been shown explicitly, or stated explicitly by a reliable witness who experienced it, then I don't tend to call "retcon" - I'm more, ohh, nice, you tricksy authors/showrunners, you got one on me. Mileage definitely varies.

The retcon for Luke and Laura in General Hospital pissed me off, and George Lucas got on my dark side with the Phantom Menace trilogy, so I don't always shrug it off.

Edited by Clanstarling.
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I'm sorry, but this episode was mostly depressing and kinda tedious after a while. 

I did like the Katherine scenes.  And even though Eddie is aggravating, I did feel badly for him by the end of a full day of his friends hating him for what he'd done and him feeling like he's to blame for Jon's death .... so I liked Rome comforting Eddie on the way back home in the limo, about how "it wasn't just one thing" that may have pushed Jon over the edge.

Did Katherine slap Eddie at the end because she thought his silence meant he does love Delilah?  Or because he actually looked kind of ambivalent about Delilah, and Katherine was thinking "you ruined our marriage and you're not even sure you love her??!!"  

Gary was kind of a dick to Maggie for no reason.  The woman has spent days hanging out with Gary's sad, mourning friends.  She's guarded, not shallow.  Geez, Gary.  

 

If they do all the big reveal / confrontation scenes this early in the season ... what are they going to do for the rest of the season?  Pace yourself, show!

Edited by SlovakPrincess.
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On 10/12/2018 at 1:11 AM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I do think they are trying to create a tie between Katherine and Jon.  Not an affair (because they've already done that once), but at least some sort of kinship.  From the first episode, which was the last time we saw Katherine, I didn't get the impression that she and Jon had much more than him being polite to her (and apparently taking her to the hospital when her water broke, because Jon is a saint...of course).  But in this episode, it sounds more like they had enough of a relationship that she would feel comfortable calling him.  This is why I'm starting to think that his "love each other" voicemail to Eddie was to tell him to love Katherine, not Delilah--which still doesn't make much sense since, a week before his death, he was offering to give Eddie money to leave Katherine.

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly where they are going with Jon's voicemail to Eddie.  Maybe he meant it sort of generally, for the whole group to come together and take care of each other?  But then why deliver that message only to Eddie?   I dunno.

I think Jon may have liked both Eddie and Katherine, but maybe felt at a certain point that if Eddie was really that unhappy in the marriage, a divorce would be the best option for everyone - including (and maybe especially) Katherine.  Hence they "I will pay you to leave her" comment.  Or maybe he meant "don't stay in an unhappy marriage because she supports you -- I can lend you money."

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20 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Did Katherine slap Eddie at the end because she thought his silence meant he does love Delilah?  Or because he actually looked kind of ambivalent about Delilah, and Katherine was thinking "you ruined our marriage and you're not even sure you love her??!!"  

 

I think that slap was borne out of a number of things, probably a combination:

1 - It was sort of Katherine's breaking point.  Honestly, she had been pretty controlled (while still devastated) through almost the entire episode.

2 - Frustration because Eddie wouldn't answer the question.  Why he wouldn't is also a bit of a mystery: He had no problem telling everyone else that he and Delilah were in love (even though Delilah never said anything to indicate that she felt the same way).  He really had nothing to lose by telling Katherine the same thing, unless he sort of came to the realization that maybe it wasn't "love".  But that's too much head cannon from me.  Back to Katherine, I think that the fact that he would not answer the one thing she actually needed to know was too much for her.

3 - She took his silence as the affirmative and it sucks when your husband loves someone else

4 - She took his silence as the negative and she realized that he destroyed their relationship for a roll in the hay.

5 - She realized she was married to a five-year-old.

25 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

If they do all the big reveal / confrontation scenes this early in the season ... what are they going to do for the rest of the season?  Pace yourself, show!

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This is one of my big concerns about this show.  It seems like they are putting things out there too quickly.  Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they didn't drag out the mystery of the affair, but I would have rather not known about the affair until about, oh, this point in the series.  The strange thing is, with all this info dumping, they aren't doing much in actually moving the plot.  The first two episodes were pretty much a standstill and, while we had some movement here, it felt like they were just moving one game piece from one square to another rather than moving everything forward.

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