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S04.E16: ... I Lose Myself

10 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Antifreeze tastes sweet so that sort of explains why they didnt really notice it in the coffee......but only if they used bottled water for the coffee and why would they do that? They showed Charlie brushing her teeth with running water in the bathroom and Morgan washing his face with running water as well. I think a group of seasoned ZA survivors would use the running water to fix coffee and save the bottled water for the road.

Sara did mention she thought the coffee tasted overly sweet but blamed Wendell for doing whatever he did in making it.  

Anybody who's been through a hurricane or natural disaster or even lived in an area where water has been compromised knows you use what comes out of the faucet for bathing and flushing and whatever activity doesn't involve you actually consuming much of it because a lot may have happened to contaminate it before it ever makes it out of the tap.  Water treatment has been down for a couple of years at this point and if it is coming out of some kind of storage or cistern, there's a possibility things may be growing in it by now too.  We're conditioned to assume bottled water is safe because it's sealed up.  We can quibble about how much antifreeze Muddy Martha (great moniker, by the way) really could have put in the bottles without noticeably changing the color of the water, but she was smart in putting all the bottles back in the plastic on the pallet.  That assumption that they were still sealed and thus safe meant they didn't notice or think to check that they weren't as they were grabbing them off the pallet and opening them.

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While the whole poisoning thing was stupid and there was too much chatter between Morgan and Martha, I think overall I'm happy with the finale.  Once again there will be a reset next season and even better, all of the current cast survived.  (Except RIP Jimbo.)  I did laugh about Jim's magic elixir being the cure for the poisoning.  Sure, they could have scrambled for the ethanol, but I'm sure the beer tasted better.  (It was funny when John warned Charlie to not get poisoned again till she's 21.)  Best of all is that Martha won't be attacking them anymore.

Poor Morgan started the season hobbling around and ended the season that way too.

Plot holes, schmot holes, this was still way better than the original series.

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On 10/1/2018 at 10:09 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Man, the show has a pretty terrific cast right now.  I like most of the characters as people and I like how they genuinely seem to like and care about each other.  I like that they haven't lost all hopefulness and seem to be hanging onto their humanity with varying degrees of success that still feel less hamfisted than early seasons of the mother show, which this is reminding me a lot of now.  I just wish the writing was better and the plotting wasn't so dependent on sheer dumb luck and coincidence or "and so this happened" handwaving. 

I think the cast is much improved.  I think it helped putting two of the original characters on the back bench for a little bit, giving the newer characters a chance to shine. 

I am now able to tolerate Alicia in small doses, before I was hoping that she would have been killed off.   I can't stand Sarah (Mo Collins).   I think she is the weakest character.  She needs to bring more to the table than her smart ass act.

None of this really matters if the writing doesn't improve. 

As for Morgan, I find his act is starting to wear thin.  Perhaps they need to elevate John for awhile and let him take the lead.

On 10/1/2018 at 10:54 AM, bookrat said:

Why didn't AL just shoot poor zombie Jim when she had the chance? He and crazy lady were so close to her I am pretty sure the bullet would have gone though Jim and killed crazy lady.....but no. Al just starts to talk, crazy lady gets the upper hand and AL somehow survives this. 

Al seemed to be far more concerned with her tapes than her life.  Before the ZA, I am convinced she was a hoarder.

Edited by icemiser69.
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17 hours ago, Token said:

So, you have one source of an antidote to your poisoning, and you decide to shoot it up.  Which is dumb enough, but not as dumb as just lying there watching it all spill on to the ground, which probably took a while.  No one had the thought to, you know, stick a bucket under there?  Catch some of it?  And how did you all go out there without buckets anyway?  Were you planning on drinking right from the truck?  Keep some in your mouth and spit it into the mouth of those who stayed behind?  I'm not expecting Oscar-worthy writing in this show, but I expect more than the stupidity they showed us in this episode.  If these people are the saviours of those in need, their world is fucked.

Plus, there would be a point where the antidote wouldn't work.   I don't know how many hours went by between them drinking the anti-freeze and Morgan bringing the beer.  It would seem to me that some significant organ damage and perhaps deaths would have taken place long before Morgan got back with the "antidote".

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15 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Antifreeze tastes sweet so that sort of explains why they didnt really notice it in the coffee......but only if they used bottled water for the coffee and why would they do that?

Sarah did mention that she was going to have to talk to someone because the coffee was really sweet.  One of the protagonists should have died from the poisoning.  If someone had to die, I would prefer to have it be Sarah and then let Jim live.

15 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Wendell should have blown her freakin' head off so we wouldn't have wasted time watching 3 episodes putting up with that sorry storyline.  It added nothing___ to making me enjoy this series. 

I am surprised that the kickback from the shot gun didn't knock over his wheel chair, or at a minimum sent his wheelchair rolling backwards.

4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Sara did mention she thought the coffee tasted overly sweet but blamed Wendell for doing whatever he did in making it.  

Anybody who's been through a hurricane or natural disaster or even lived in an area where water has been compromised knows you use what comes out of the faucet for bathing and flushing and whatever activity doesn't involve you actually consuming much of it because a lot may have happened to contaminate it before it ever makes it out of the tap.  Water treatment has been down for a couple of years at this point and if it is coming out of some kind of storage or cistern, there's a possibility things may be growing in it by now too.  We're conditioned to assume bottled water is safe because it's sealed up.  We can quibble about how much antifreeze Muddy Martha (great moniker, by the way) really could have put in the bottles without noticeably changing the color of the water, but she was smart in putting all the bottles back in the plastic on the pallet.  That assumption that they were still sealed and thus safe meant they didn't notice or think to check that they weren't as they were grabbing them off the pallet and opening them.

I was surprised that the truck stop store still had electricity.

Edited by icemiser69.
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I thought hard to come up with 5 things I liked in this episode.

  1. John truly is a great character. Dillahunt does an amazing job breathing life into him. In a less talented actor's hands, his shtick could get old real fast or be unbelievable, but he just makes it work. He's charming and effortlessly funny (more than you can say for the twins). The only problem is June. I only like her with John, which isn't great for her as a character. But the problem with getting rid of her is that it would change John.
  2. The small part of Althea running in the alley. This is before the stupid dead walkie, news van and failing to kill Martha bit. I just love those types of chase scenes.
  3. The group making a last stand to fight their way out and get the ethanol. Well, we know how that ended...but it was really nice to see them band together like that and have each others backs.
  4. Alicia saving Althea and saying one of her 3 lines this episode. Yeah, yeah, they're playing me by giving her a 'badass' scene to placate the audience but whatever, I'll take what I can get.
  5. Martha pointing out to Althea that she must be really strong to have seen so many people in need and not truly help any one of them. That was the only time I felt like Martha had any purpose and Al got a little bit of development.

There, I found some things I liked in this episode. Sadly, they all got ruined mere moments later but oh well...Needed to find something to get a little excited about next season. I hope the trailer is epic (and in color) because I really need it to be.

Speaking of trailers, it was pretty annoying that for a trailer that gave little away other than 'THERE IS A STORM' (false advertising), it gave so much away that we had to wait for the whole season. Like the scene with Strand and Alicia sharing a beer. We had to wait for that such a long time, that for me at least there was no longer any uumph to it when it actually aired. Especially because there wasn't a whole lot more to it than what they showed. Watching the trailer, you'd think oh nice Alicia and Strand will bond but in reality they're seperated most of the season and that's one of only 2 significant moments they share. Same with Morgan with the message on his forehead. Again, something they spoiled from the final episode and everybody was expecting Morgan to go crazy but it all turns out to be really lame and ridiculous. He falls for a stupid ploy and sticks his entire arm through a window so they can crash his car. And it gets even more ridiculous with that blinking eye, evil Martha scrawling on his face bit.
Again, with John and Althea being visible in group scenes. Takes any tention away from 'will they, won't they die' when they were in danger.

Obviously, the reason they had to pull so much from the last episode(s) is because the other 7 were even more boring and eventless other than THE STORM (which they also spoiled entirely in the trailer because that was basically the total storm...a couple of wired walkers and some rain). But you know what would have solved that? Writing a better freakin' season.

And thus with this tirade, I have completely undone my initial intent with this post...being positive about this episode. lol. Sigh.

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If  I wanted to watch an ugly, crazy witch harangue and try to kill people for hours on end, I'd just go back to my job and clock my boss.

TPTB are truly talentless hacks who dont deseve a dime of what they are getting paid.

 

And there is no way this zaftig person whos  carrying about 60 lbs in her bra alone, in addition to to the extra 40 lbs of mud caked long dreadlocks on her head, made it 2+ years in the ZA;  just like that ratty little beer maker wouldnt have, either. And how many hordes from Texas metropolises did the guy in the wheelchair pop a wheelie past, too, while we're at it.

Also tired af: giving black characters dreadlocks. Has there ever been a black woman with natural hair on the show? I get it; the comics are drawn this way to make characters stick out and the show follows suit, maybe.  But its ridiculous to think long dirty dreads would ever be a preferred hairdo in the ZA.  Its a liability.  A walker could grab it, or an enemy; you could get vermin in it; it slows you down to have to fiddle with your hair; in Witchypoos  case, she is lugging all that extra weight around; youre constantly sweating directly into it , etc

Long hair , pony tails, elaborate braids, etc The first thing everyone wouldve done in the ZA, early on, was to cut their hair short.

Edited by Butless.
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15 hours ago, CloudySky said:

I thought hard to come up with 5 things I liked in this episode.

  1. John truly is a great character. Dillahunt does an amazing job breathing life into him. In a less talented actor's hands, his shtick could get old real fast or be unbelievable, but he just makes it work. He's charming and effortlessly funny (more than you can say for the twins). The only problem is June. I only like her with John, which isn't great for her as a character. But the problem with getting rid of her is that it would change John.h.

Like Dickens before him, he's playing on a higher level, as an actor. James is a great actor, too, but he jjust cannot rise above these ridiculous plots hes thrown into; I do not blame him a bit.

As for June, what a horrible character, really just awful. Shes still blathering about herself again. Its teh teh actress and character are merged. And there she is ,again, talking about how she was worried that John wouldnt like the real her.. I mean, wtf? Does anyon understand this, because she constantly mentions it, and all I can say is, she only changed her name, and whatever name she was using  at whatever time, she was still a raging asshole.

A rock should fall on June, for real. John will rally. He's always had more chemistry with Althea anyway.

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2 hours ago, Butless said:

Also tired af: giving black characters dreadlocks. Has there ever been a black woman with natural hair on the show? I get it; the comics are drawn this way to make characters stick out and the show follows suit, maybe.  But its ridiculous to think long dirty dreads would ever be a preferred hairdo in the ZA.  Its a liability.  A walker could grab it, or an enemy; you could get vermin in it; it slows you down to have to fiddle with your hair; in Witchypoos  case, she is lugging all that extra weight around; youre constantly sweating directly into it , etc

I agree about the long hair, especially those long, funky dreadlocks.  However, Sasha had natural hair and I remember a black woman in Season 1 or 2 when they were at the CDB who had either natural or straightened hair, I don't remember--but no dreadlocks.

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19 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I agree about the long hair, especially those long, funky dreadlocks.  However, Sasha had natural hair and I remember a black woman in Season 1 or 2 when they were at the CDB who had either natural or straightened hair, I don't remember--but no dreadlocks.

i was wrong , in a big way ;p   thanks. I felt like I was overlooking someone... heh  I wish they would liberate Michonne from that sweaty rag and dreads. The equivalent wouldve been giving Maggie a big bouffant all this time. 

 

Its not just that they have dreads or braid or ponytails. Its that they have LONG dreads and braids and ponytails.  Its  a silly thing to get mad about, but it drives me nuts.

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5 hours ago, Butless said:

i was wrong , in a big way ;p   thanks. I felt like I was overlooking someone... heh  I wish they would liberate Michonne from that sweaty rag and dreads. The equivalent wouldve been giving Maggie a big bouffant all this time. 

 

Its not just that they have dreads or braid or ponytails. Its that they have LONG dreads and braids and ponytails.  Its  a silly thing to get mad about, but it drives me nuts.

It drives me nuts, too, and the thing is, I think Michonne would look so much better with closely cropped hair, because Danai has a beautifully shaped head.   

And Carol can have Ezekiel because I wouldn't go anywhere near him in those dreads, lol.

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Well, the season is over, and, well... I've got to say that, in my opinion, this was probably the weakest season since S1. After they decided to kill off/not show many main characters and introduce new ones in to the fold, they kinda for the majority of the season lost me. I found the story-line (did this season had a story-line, apart from packages for needy lying on the road and the Mrs. Woodoo Priest Creating her Zombie Pals for Company?) to be unengaging (most of the times I was looking anywhere, but the screen). And the actors, well, from those that I did like in this series, they showed so little of them (Allicia, Victor, hell, even Charlie) that I even began to think whether they are there at all. I did not particularly like the form of the season, that each character (either alone or in pairs) get their own episode and only in the beginning and towards the end do they get back together. Most of the new characters were simply uninteresting. And, if somebody would ask me what happened in this season, I would honestly be stumped. Well, yeah, they were grieving and "hunting" down the one's responsible for Maddisson's death, and then grieving for Nick's death, and then being stuck in a tornado, which threw them in opposite directions, but that's just a couple of episode from the whole season.

I just don't know, I found it hard to watch. And that "noire-esque" style of filming colours did not help one bit. I mean, I  get why this choice was made, but I simply did not like it.

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Danai is beautiful with natural hair, or even shaved (Black Panther). The dreads cover half her face in shadow most of the time. 

 

Im sure th e actress loved her part, but she got dealt a bad hand. It wasnt until the scene with Lennie James after the car accident that you can tell she's a pretty good actress, and they plyed off each other well, there. There was something a bit more genuine going on there, than her usual one-note schtick (which was all that was written for her, really).  For a brief glimmer there I could see maybe how the idea of this character could have beem interesting , had it been thought out at all, and put into a smaller scope. As it was though? It was an annoying waste of time, thanks to TPTB.

Edited by Butless.
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Nice fellowship of the ring ending.............these writers

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3 hours ago, Donder said:

Nice fellowship of the ring ending.............these writers

Thanks for putting a finger on what was wrong with this ending and Madison's send off. 

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