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S04.E16: ... I Lose Myself

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Morgan struggles to find the strength to help friends in dire need before it's too late.

Season finale; airdate 2018.09.30

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Even though promos are airing, do not discuss specific details of the upcoming Walking Dead season here.  Thank you.

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It’s definitely not in the same class as some of my other favorites- Better Call Saul, Westworld, Expanse, even the Good Place is more challenging than this. I got hooked on TWD because I liked the characters and the post-apocalyptic landscape, but this is so poorly written. The good acting (sometimes) and the excellent snark here may not be enough to keep me hanging on.

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I think that the reboot has been a success. The overall cast is more talented now and has far more chemistry than the previous one. They did a good cull, getting rid of the dead wood and keeping Coleman and Alicia. I think Charlie is the only weak link. I am sure that Daniel will pop up because he never dies. I am hopeful that we will see hot Crazy Dog and Walker again one day.

I like that with Morgan as the leader, they have found a home and are attempting to build a community and help other people. With any luck, soon they will be brewing beer using Jim's recipe. I just hope next season, we don't have to put up with more of Morgan's endless self-doubt and savior complex.

Edited by SimoneS.
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I enjoyed it.. And I'm definitely looking fwd to see how they work in new stories next year.. Seeing as they'll have a home base.. As I first expected them to be on the road next season... 

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Why is this show in black and white? I see NO REASON

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Maybe I’m just getting used to it but it looks like more color this episode.

I find it so hard to believe they couldn’t catch any of the spilled ethanol...

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I really hate all the characters on this show. I hope they all turn into zombies. 10 minutes in and I'm switching to Halloween Wars.

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I was pissed as soon as Al got clobbered by Witchypoo. Why was she standing that close to her? And given that the woman had tried to kill them all and now had Jimbo on a stick, why was Al acting like a frightened rabbit?

I hate the Morgan story line. I really can't comprehend it. At his worse, Morgan was never evil like Martha. He may recognize her "stuckness" but that's no excuse for his willingness to risk everyone's lives just to "help" one psycho. I am sick of all these dang buzz words "help, weak, strong, my mother". Speak normally and mean something. I just rolled my eyes when Martha said her husband needed her to be strong. No. He needed first class paramedics, a medivac and a good triage hospital.

You are dying of poison, and you're not going to drag yourself over to the truck and drink from the pools of ethanol on the ground? Y'all can all die.

Morgan was limping along the road with that huge wound in his leg. Please don't have him do karate kid moves on the walkers. Don't insult us like that.

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I almost can't believe how bad that was. It's like they made a best of 'the worst of this season' episode.

After wasting 10 minutes on showing us filthy woman's backstory in a previous episode, I really didn't need a 10 minute recap of it in this episode. Meanwhile, still waiting for Al's backstory. Don't know what that useless fastforwarding on the tapes was supposed to mean but "I got layers" is the most bullshit line of the episode and that's saying something.

The amount of stupidity and contrivances is this episode is just mind boggling.

Watching Alicia eat in the background for half the episode kept me more entertained than the actual plot.

The only time I got a little excited was when Morgan left the group and it was just them at the truckstop without Morgan and Filthy Woman to drag down the group.

Who else thought the bullet holes in the truck was actually a good thing because Strand couldn't get it open? Most WTF moment of the series!!! And that includes Mexican gangster just stands on the road waiting to be eaten.

Where did Al get that ammo for the swat truck??? And why didn't she just shoot filthy woman with the shotgun?????

This episode could have been redeemed if Strand and Alicia snuck out the back having swiped the note with directions to Alexandria and the swat keys, happily taking swigs of Strand's bottle of scotch as they drove off leaving that bunch of useless waste to die.

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6 hours ago, For Cereals said:

I find it so hard to believe they couldn’t catch any of the spilled ethanol...

yep. dumb dumb dumb writing. Simple Gimple rears his stoopid head I am sure. A whole tanker of ethanol leaked out through 7 bullet holes before they could catch any? It would take hours to leak that much out. Gotta be Gimple.

Edited by 1 who Knocks-Nuihc.
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If I had to find something positive to say (and ignore this guy standing next to me with a gun to my head), I will say I liked this season ending better than most. (I can’t remember many, so keep that in mind!) But what I liked is that it ended on a note of hope. We won’t be spending the next handful of months wondering if so-and-so is dead (assuming we like any of them to start with, and with this show ...), or if this or that person makes it back to the group. I, for one, am sick and tired of cliff-hangers, especially those in TWD universe, because they seem to be more cruel than truly suspenseful.

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A lot of my questions have already been mentioned, but, why did Morgan just wash his face in the bathroom? Wouldn't it be more important to clean that ghastly wound on his leg? 

How many years are they into this thing?  I watched season one and walked away.  Just wondering how they keep batteries charged. 

I do prefer this cast over the original group.  But, the stupidity is too oppressive.  Their writers are way overpaid. 

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Hey. If just drinking an alcoholic beverage cures antifreeze poisoning, why doesn't the vet  give our pets some whiskey after they drink antifreeze instead of just watching them die. Not buying that story line.

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As soon as Sarah said the coffee was too sweet, it was pretty obvious that they were poisoned with anti-freeze.

What amazed me is that they didn't set the convenience (truck stop) store on fire before they left.  At a minimum, destroy all of the bottles of water that had the seals broken on them.   There is no way that any of the protagonists could guarantee that food wasn't also tainted.  It would make sense to destroy it all.   It would also make sense to check out all other store's water supplies and other liquid drinks, to see if any of those were tainted, destroy all liquids and the food at those other locations as well.

They probably should check some of the care packages they have already left on the side of the road to see if any of the seals were broken on the water bottles, and also check the food.

BTW, when the English teacher was contaminating the water bottles in those care packages in a past episode or two, she wasn't using anti-freeze.  I would have thought for sure she was using granules of some sort.  Something like rat poison.

In terms of the ethanol tank, there should have been plenty of puddles on the ground to drink from. 

Again with the yanking an object from someone's leg.  Morgan should have left the metal in his leg.  There is no way that I am going to believe he was going to live after he pulled it out.  I would have thought for sure that he would have bled out all over the place. 

ETA:

I guess it has been confirmed.  The English teacher not only knew how to drive the military vehicle, she also knew how to recharge the batteries for the camcorder in order to play the videos, and that is how she learned about Morgan.

Piss poor writing I must say.  I am not buying the English teacher's abilities to do any of that. 

Edited by icemiser69. Reason: editing issues.
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Man, the show has a pretty terrific cast right now.  I like most of the characters as people and I like how they genuinely seem to like and care about each other.  I like that they haven't lost all hopefulness and seem to be hanging onto their humanity with varying degrees of success that still feel less hamfisted than early seasons of the mother show, which this is reminding me a lot of now.  I just wish the writing was better and the plotting wasn't so dependent on sheer dumb luck and coincidence or "and so this happened" handwaving. 

Morgan, I love you.  Really I do.  More than most seem to, and I understand that you thought you saw something of yourself in crazy lady.  But the cheesemaker already had a cell to contain you until you snapped back into some version of reality.  He didn't have to chase you all over the countryside.  He didn't approach you out in the field when you were in full killing mode. and you hadn't been endlessly taunting him or trying to kill him or anyone he cared about when your paths crossed.  It's only due to more of that sheer dumb luck and plot reasons that any of you survived.  I also don't know why most of these people are unquestioningly following you as leader and I don't think you do either except that they all just seem to want someone who isn't them to do it.  Basic human nature and all that.  Since they seem determined to follow you though, you're going to have to get out of your head more to be able to make decisions and stick with them.

Crazy lady's babbling about killing everyone to "make you strong" never did make any sense and ends up on the pile of half-baked nihilist plot points along with the Wolves on the mother ship.  So what was the point?  Who knows?  Don't look too closely and keep moving.   Yes, I realize they were trying to expand on the idea that help never came for her when it would have made a difference and so in her mind that meant anyone else who needed help didn't deserve to live either, but insisting that dead things were strong just feels like a reach even within her crazymaking.

I'm forever going to be a little disappointed that in a half season that centered so strongly on homebrew beer that it turned out to be the solution to 11th-hour antifreeze poisoning and not the cure to the zombie virus.  I realize that would have made for a very different series and franchise, although fun to think about.  

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I just want to thank Morgan for going back and killing walker/crazy lady!

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17 minutes ago, Texasmom1970 said:

I just want to thank Morgan for going back and killing walker/crazy lady!

At least that guarantees that she won't pop back up on the series later on.  I was certain she was going to be back.  Thank goodness Morgan put an end to that, and put her out of my misery.

Edited by icemiser69. Reason: yikes, my horrible spelling
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Why didn't AL just shoot poor zombie Jim when she had the chance? He and crazy lady were so close to her I am pretty sure the bullet would have gone though Jim and killed crazy lady.....but no. Al just starts to talk, crazy lady gets the upper hand and AL somehow survives this. 

That is when I turned the channel. Al should have been turned. There was no reason crazy lady should have let her live.

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2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Just wondering how they keep batteries charged. 

They use a battery powered generator to recharge batteries used to run the battery powered generator.

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Man, the show has a pretty terrific cast right now.

do wish they had kept Jim though

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I wish they'd kept Jim too.  Every group needs a recovering malcontent along for the ride and he just feels like a lot of wasted potential.

Crazy lady letting Al live because she liked her felt almost like a half nod to the show not really having developed Al a ton beyond being the spunky girl with the camera and Swat vehicle.

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15 minutes ago, bookrat said:

Why didn't AL just shoot poor zombie Jim when she had the chance? He and crazy lady were so close to her I am pretty sure the bullet would have gone though Jim and killed crazy lady.....but no. Al just starts to talk, crazy lady gets the upper hand and AL somehow survives this. 

That is when I turned the channel. Al should have been turned. There was no reason crazy lady should have let her live.

Why didn't Al kill Jim? Because Morgan had to be the one to do it.

Why didn't Al put an end to filthy woman? Because Morgan had to be the one to do it.

Why didn't they catch the trickling ethanol? Because Morgan had to save the day with the bullshit bozo's beerbos.

Why is alcohol the only thing this magical all-you-could-possibly-need-in-a-zombie-apocalypse-including-endless-supplies-of-ammo-running-water-and-electricity-truck-stop doesn't have? See above.

Why didn't Sarah and Wendell suggest looking for Jim's stash rather than just wait around to die (or the wine cellar at the mansion, or one of the boxes with a beer in or or or)? Because Morgan will magically find it in the nick of time.

Why split up even though it would make more sense to go after this crazy lady with numbers? Because Morgan needs his parallel walking montage.

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Since when do they have clean running water?! I was hoping Crazy lady used a sharpie so Morgan couldn’t wash the writing off his face. 

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Well, at least Muddy Crazy Bitch is dead, so there's that.  Otherwise, meh.....

How does Morgan keep such a clean shaven head, and how does Al keep her 'do looking the way it does?  Do they have zombie stylists?

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5 hours ago, lu1535 said:

Hey. If just drinking an alcoholic beverage cures antifreeze poisoning, why doesn't the vet  give our pets some whiskey after they drink antifreeze instead of just watching them die. Not buying that story line.

They do.  But it's usually clear alcohol, administered intravenously.  Fomepizole is the preferred treatment; ethanol is the second choice.

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I was waiting for an "awww my leg " from Morgan, damn - he keeps getting a leg busted up pretty good. I thought the finale was somewhat lackluster, Morgan " To go or not to go to Alexandria" is exhausting with the back and forth. I am glad they didn't pull a Neegan on old Muddy Martha, glad she is toast

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Despite one or two small details, I enjoyed the FTWD season finale.

As to one of the small details that bothered me - when Al shot up the Ethanol (alcohol) truck (when trying to hit zombies), and it sprang a leak.

There was nothing stopping anyone there, that I could tell, from grabbing an empty glass or bucket, running up to the truck, and catching some of the leaking stuff to drink in an empty glass or bucket.

But as it was, we were told there was no more ethanol left, leaving Morgan to find the beer truck to rescue everyone a bit later.

Other than one or two small nit-picks with the episode such as that one, I enjoyed it.

I appreciate the fact that they wrapped the whole thing up and did not leave any cliff-hangers in place.

You can reasonably debate, I suppose, whether or not Morgan should've tried to redeem Crazy Martha, but as I learned more about her and Morgan's rationale for why he was trying to save her (as he explained to John), I found that a satisfying story line, I could see why Morgan wanted to save her, though at first I thought he should just leave her alone.

I think it's good they wrapped up Martha's story line rather than have that go on and on and on over another season or two.

I was very happy to see more of my favorite character, John Dorie, and his relationship with that June lady is so sweet, I enjoy watching them on-screen together.

 They need to have Dorie in more episodes, and give his character stuff to do. He was absent for three episodes in a row this season, which was, IMO, unacceptable!

I guess the group is going to be the Texas (or are they in Mississippi now??) version of Alexandria, VA, as they were discussing towards the end making a base camp in the denim factory and making runs out every so often to find new people (via Al's tapes) to include in their new community.

Edited by DrNowsWeightScale.
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My husband was completely bored then pissed off at this episode. He kept asking why Morgan and Al didn't shoot the crazy lady. Both had several opportunities to end it BUT NO they stand there waving their guns like a couple of little kids. I have not enjoyed the way the writers have changed Morgan. He once was a real bad ass. Now he acts like a wimp, almost afraid of his own shadow. I have not been impressed with the writing. Hubby and I were oth hopping that they all died from the tainted water. They were all out there around the truck when Al shot it and the liquid started to leak out. That truck was WAY TOO LARGE to drain in just a few minutes. Then all of a sudden they are all back inside the truck stop, sprawled on the floor. WOW such poor writing!!!!!

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5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I wish they'd kept Jim too.  Every group needs a recovering malcontent along for the ride and he just feels like a lot of wasted potential.

Crazy lady letting Al live because she liked her felt almost like a half nod to the show not really having developed Al a ton beyond being the spunky girl with the camera and Swat vehicle.

I think Strand fits the bill of being the local recovering malcontent :)

I liked Jim, too, but his death fits into my theory for the theme behind the back half of S4. I said after last week's ep that the back half seemed like a set up for S5 rather than its own contained storyline. I was thinking about it last night, and I believe that the first half of S4 was obviously to finish off the Clarke Family saga, but the back half has been used to give *everyone* their redemption story. Even poor underused Al, not that I can really figure out exactly what was going on with her. But seriously, all of them are moving forward with a clean slate and as neurosis-free as one can get in a post-apocalyptic hellscape.

I'm with the rest of the crew here who really like the characters that we've ended up with. It was a wobbly season, but I'm giving Kang a pass right now for having to pull together a hell of a mess and set it on the path to a new story. I'm looking forward to seeing where this is heading.

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16 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

I was pissed as soon as Al got clobbered by Witchypoo. Why was she standing that close to her? And given that the woman had tried to kill them all and now had Jimbo on a stick, why was Al acting like a frightened rabbit?

Unless I saw things incorrectly, Al at least spun around when she heard the Jimbo walker on a stick.

I know it's been a complaint on many a forum (not just this one) for years that nobody (on this show or the original TWD) ever hears a zombie sneaking up behind them until it's too late.

But it looked to me as though Al spun around when she heard the shuffling footsteps of Zombie-Jim.

Al did hesitate with the shot gun when she spun back around after capping that one far off zombie. She didn't shoot Martha at that point, which got her clipped in the head by Martha.

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

BTW, when the English teacher was contaminating the water bottles in those care packages in a past episode or two, she wasn't using anti-freeze.  I would have thought for sure she was using granules of some sort.  Something like rat poison.

...Again with the yanking an object from someone's leg.  Morgan should have left the metal in his leg.  There is no way that I am going to believe he was going to live after he pulled it out.  I would have thought for sure that he would have bled out all over the place. 

In one episode, she was shown using cruddy, old, rain water that was in some open container to pour into one of the water bottles. I could see how cruddy, dirty water could make someone sick at the very least, maybe cause them to vomit or develop a fever.

After Morgan pulled that spike thing out of his leg, they did show him pressing has hand on the wound to apply pressure to the wound.

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6 hours ago, bookrat said:

That is when I turned the channel. Al should have been turned. There was no reason crazy lady should have let her live.

Crazy Lady used Al as a carrier pigeon - she planted a video for Morgan on to Al.

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8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Crazy lady's babbling about killing everyone to "make you strong" never did make any sense and ends up on the pile of half-baked nihilist plot points along with the Wolves on the mother ship. 

So what was the point?  Who knows?  Don't look too closely and keep moving. 

 Yes, I realize they were trying to expand on the idea that help never came for her when it would have made a difference and so in her mind that meant anyone else who needed help didn't deserve to live either, but insisting that dead things were strong just feels like a reach even within her crazymaking.

I've explained this on a previous thread or two, so I apologize if I sound like a broken record on this, but I really get and empathize where Crazy Lady is coming from.

When my mother died a few years ago, nobody helped me through the grief (even when I reached out and asked for help, which was not easy for me to do), and people's unwillingness (including family of mine) to assist me left me shocked, hurt, and battling anger and bitterness.

I also come from a family that believes asking for help is a form of weakness.

In my family (the exception to this was my mother), you're supposed to be a tough guy and soldier on.

In my family, you're never supposed admit to others that you're hurting emotionally or that you need help, because you're supposed to keep up an appearance of being strong.

(Being vulnerable, admitting to wanting help or to having a problem, or asking for help, is viewed as weak, and therefore shameful, so it's supposed to be ignored or pushed down and never addressed.)

I can totally understand how and why Crazy Lady snapped when nobody stopped to help her in her time of need, and why she associates being a zombie with being strong - because zombies are not human and have no needs.

Edited by DrNowsWeightScale.
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10 minutes ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I've explained this on a previous thread or two, so I apologize if I sound like a broken record on this, but I really get and empathize where Crazy Lady is coming from.

Yes, you have explained it.  So sorry for your loss.

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9 minutes ago, ikmccall said:

So how did Martha the Crazy Lady get injured? 

I'm unclear if Martha was injured because she allowed Zombie Jim to bite her in that episode (I think someone on the after show mentioned this??), or,

If her previous gun shot wound to her neck / shoulder area got infected, but something was going to turn her into a Zombie. (Wendell or someone from his group on the previous episode shot her when she got out of the SWAT van to confront them.)

Morgan handcuffed her to a car in the finale. She turned into a zombie after that and bit her arm off and got up and shambled off.

After she turned into a Zombie, Morgan later put her down with his walking stick through her face (if that is what you were asking).

Edited by DrNowsWeightScale.
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36 minutes ago, ikmccall said:

So how did Martha the Crazy Lady get injured? 

Wendell shot her and it looks like the wound got infected which gradually killed her.

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So, you have one source of an antidote to your poisoning, and you decide to shoot it up.  Which is dumb enough, but not as dumb as just lying there watching it all spill on to the ground, which probably took a while.  No one had the thought to, you know, stick a bucket under there?  Catch some of it?  And how did you all go out there without buckets anyway?  Were you planning on drinking right from the truck?  Keep some in your mouth and spit it into the mouth of those who stayed behind?  I'm not expecting Oscar-worthy writing in this show, but I expect more than the stupidity they showed us in this episode.  If these people are the saviours of those in need, their world is fucked.

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Only Al could be dumb enough to bring a gun to a stick fight and lose. And a stick is one level below a knife.

I've never tasted antifreeze, but I'm guessing it's nothing like water. Not to mention it's usually green.

And if they really wanted us to believe all the ethanol was gone, they could have made the truck explode. This must be the first time in history of television a truck full of fuel is hit with bullets and not explode. Did they run out of budget or something?

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I think if the people of Alexandria somehow found out that Morgan wasn't coming back, there would be a collective sigh of relief. 

I am so sick of his waffling ass.  He and Crazy Muddy Bitch should have died together.

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I think that they were all good actors this season, even Alycia is now a lot better in her Alicia's role, but the writers screwed everything up.

Nothing in this show makes sense,  Everybody jump starts random cars in ten seconds with full batteries and no clogged fuel system at all.  Unlimited ammo an diesel as usual,  wounded people who carry on as if nothing happened, etc. etc. etc.

They have done this mess by lazyness and it is like that from the first season, it only gets worse.  If the people on this forum are able to find the flaws on the spot how come they don't see it in pre-production or even while filming?  It is not even a question of money,  they just don't care. 

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14 hours ago, 1 who Knocks-Nuihc said:

yep. dumb dumb dumb writing. Simple Gimple rears his stoopid head I am sure. A whole tanker of ethanol leaked out through 7 bullet holes before they could catch any? It would take hours to leak that much out. Gotta be Gimple.

 One would  think if a tanker truck full of ethanol gets machine gunned it should have blown up. That would have made more sense. 

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1 hour ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

Morgan handcuffed her to a car in the finale. She turned into a zombie after that and bit her arm off and got up and shambled off.

 

I thought she bit and torn her arm off before she zombified but we'll never know...

52 minutes ago, FishyJoe said:

I've never tasted antifreeze, but I'm guessing it's nothing like water. Not to mention it's usually green.

 

Antifreeze tastes sweet so that sort of explains why they didnt really notice it in the coffee......but only if they used bottled water for the coffee and why would they do that? They showed Charlie brushing her teeth with running water in the bathroom and Morgan washing his face with running water as well. I think a group of seasoned ZA survivors would use the running water to fix coffee and save the bottled water for the road.

Antifreeze can be pink, blue, orange or green. All of those colors would be noticeable in water unless diluted to the point where you might taste it, might even get sick, probably wouldnt die (unless you just chug a lugged that whole pallet). Now how did Muddy Martha have enough time to poison that entire pallet as well as all other bottled liquid in that store? Sigh. Oh and wasn't it funny, scene after scene you see a bright, neon sign saying "COLD BEER" and everyone "dying" due to lack of alcohol. ALSO, I know MANY states sell liquor in stores like that, seems like if it was staying nicely stocked like it was, why wouldnt it also have PLENTY booze?!?

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2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Wendell shot her and it looks like the wound got infected which gradually killed her.

Wendell should have blown her freakin' head off so we wouldn't have wasted time watching 3 episodes putting up with that sorry storyline.  It added nothing___ to making me enjoy this series. 

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7 hours ago, diebartdie said:

I thought she bit and torn her arm off before she zombified but we'll never know...

I doubt a zombie would have the smarts to free itself. Martha wanted to be strong and was probably motivated enough to tear her own arm off.

What I find surprising is that Walker Martha didn't chow down on her own severed arm.

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10 hours ago, diebartdie said:

but only if they used bottled water for the coffee and why would they do that?

Water used in the bathrooms would be from a storage tank. This would be unsafe to drink due to bugs like Legionella, even brushing your teeth or showering could prove fatal. It could be used after several minutes of boiling. they also showed the coffee machine being filled with the bottled water. You would have thought someone would have swigged a bottle whilst waiting for the coffee though.

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You would have thought they would be suspicious that all the water bottles were no longer sealed too, but you would apparently be wrong.

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10 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Everybody jump starts random cars in ten seconds with full batteries and no clogged fuel system at all.  Unlimited ammo an diesel as usua

All the vehicles have fully inflated tyres as well, no foot pump needed on this show..

On 01/10/2018 at 7:38 AM, CloudySky said:

And that includes Mexican gangster just stands on the road waiting to be eaten

That was an absolute classic lol

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