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S06.E21: Sean & Dottie's 2018.07.25

On 8/12/2018 at 11:54 AM, Jeeves said:

I've been critical (mostly privately, can't remember if I've ever posted about it) of some of the scars resulting form Dr. Now's work. But that's a good point, that some of these surgeries removing large growths, overhanging stomachs, and hip wings, are probably not the final editions, but essentially done to allow the patients to live in more comfort and attain something like normal movement. It's not about "pretty," it's about getting to something more like normal and less painful and crippling.

Yeah, I've posted about that (as others have, I assume), but still wow. Even if it's not cosmetic surgery level, you'd think you'd want to do a decent basic job so that the plastic surgeon could trim and sculpt, not rebuild. 

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My guess is that successful patients will have multiple skin removals, and there is simply no good way to take off so much excess skin, and fatty growths, and have the skin hold together without the giant stitches.      I wonder if any plastic surgery teaching programs would be interested in doing the skin removals as a part of the doctors' training, and the costs for the patients would be covered by insurance that way?    I have heard from people who considered WLS that they only get the front stomach/abdomen apron removal covered by insurance if it reaches the top of the thighs or more, and some of the patients on here certainly qualify for that.   However, other skin removals wouldn't be covered by insurance, because flappy arms aren't a medical issue to insurance companies.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama.
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Although I watched this with the intention of snarking, I ended up feeling so much compassion for Shaun. His witch of a mother hadn't equipped him with any life skills, and when he was left to his own devices, of course he wasn't able to cope. How could he? The only thing he could think of was a care home, and I think that's because he wasn't able to articulate with any clarity what he needed to help himself.  I think what he needs is something like a group home - where he has his own room and bathroom, but sharing with other young adults who have special needs and supported by staff and therapists. He'd learn to take care of himself, cook, clean, shop, do laundry, take exercise, keep himself clean - and to develop the social skills he's sorely lacking. Whether there is the funding for this, I have no idea. But in an ideal world, that's what he'd get.

Dottie's story was both heartbreaking and uplifting. I felt so sad for her when her son died, but was glad that she didn't use it as an excuse to backslide back to 700lbs.  In the effed-up world of My 600 Lb Life, she had a relatively normal family situation, and the fact she was mobile even when so overweight helped her.  It's the ones who refuse to get up and walk who tend to stay super-morbidly obese, even after the surgery.

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On 7/26/2018 at 10:34 AM, Mothra said:

I think he's very mobile given how big he is, which makes it all the more disgusting that he was using a bucket.  He was perfectly capable of getting himself to the toilet.  He wants to be taken care of.

Yes, he certainly hauled ass when the pizza man came knocking. Maybe if they installed a mini-fridge in his bathroom, he could be bothered to make the 5 or 6 steps from his chair to the toilet.

 

On 7/26/2018 at 11:52 AM, AVM said:

I am sure his original episode is available online , Dr Now saw through the destructive influence Sean's mother had on him, and he forbid her for awhile visiting him ,shortly after  she died...

I know you meant before she died, but this gave me a giggle-fit, imagining Dr. Now trying to banish her ghost from visiting. 

 

On 7/26/2018 at 3:43 PM, calpurnia99 said:

I have to agree because I imagine when a person reaches 300-375 pounds things start to get very bad, with their health, and they start to have pain from the weight,  and they see how quality of life is very much declining.  The person is out of breath walking,  uncomfortable all the time and you know you MUST do something.  The weight begins to affect many aspects of your life , you can't fit into an airline once becoming more than 150 pounds over your ideal weight. 

Those who allow the weight gain to go on and on and get up to 400 pounds really start having trouble.  At 400-475 pounds you are having issues reaching your ass and showering yourself and pain in your knees and feet, and can't find any clothes to wear, cant find a seat to sit in in a public place. Can't fit through turnstiles. But these people  STILL don't face it, gain another 100 pounds,  now they are over 500 pounds, and then still do not face it, and then are immobile, can't walk to the bathroom, can't fit through the bathroom door, can't do anything for themself, because they are 600 pounds or more and keep cramming in food.  They are completely miserably yet do nothing about it.

Now you weigh 650 pounds, your life is utter and total hell, you are in constant pain, but now you have only a year to live, you have your relatives bathing and changing your diapers. Only at this point do you think about getting help. Yes, a huge difference psychologically from a 300 pound person. There is something very very wrong to allow yourself to reach 600 pounds. Weight loss surgery cannot fix these issues.

You have an excellent imagination, because I've been through part of that journey and you nailed it every bit of it. I spent more years than I care to admit in the 350+ lb range, and one particularly bad year I actually saw the scale hit 403, which sent a chill up my spine like I had never felt before. It scared the crap out of me. I was already having trouble walking very far because of pain in my knees, and I huffed and puffed my way across parking lots, up stairs, etc. It finally dawned on me that if I didn't take things in hand I would end up in a wheelchair at best. Seeing that number, combined with the all of the physical issues I was experiencing was enough to scare me straight. I think I was only over 400 lbs for about one week. It hasn't been a linear journey (there have been periods of time where I've gained back a chunk of weight before getting back on track), but I never again crossed that 350 line.  I'm now in the mid-200s and still working on getting the rest off.  I think you're 100% right that once you've gained to the point that it becomes a an mobility/quality of life issue, you hit a crossroad where you either turn back and get things under control, or you decide it's too hard and just give up.

 

On 8/9/2018 at 9:00 AM, Elizzikra said:

I had nothing against Sean's father. I think he saw the enormous amount of work that needed to be done and he knew they had limited time to do it. He was trying to make Sean live in reality, a place that Sean has never even visited (probably never seen a postcard; definitely doesn't have a t-shirt). 

Sean was coddled his entire life. He doesn't need more of that from anyone else including his father.

Agreed. I saw nothing to indicate that his father was an asshole or a douche or abusive to Sean. That said, I'm also pretty sure, I couldn't have just moved back to California and left Sean there alone like he did, but we don't know the real backstory there. As others have mentioned, it's possible the yelling and verbal abuse his mother alleged was simply his father trying to set boundaries for Sean and stick to them and that when he couldn't win that battle against Munchhausen Mom, he noped on out of there. It's also possible his father offered to put Sean up in a place in CA and Sean refused because his father doesn't coddle him or because he wanted to be close to his mother's grave. Or that his father is the source of what little income Sean does have. No clue. Ideally I'd have loved to have seen his father try to work with Sean on how to gain some semblance of independence, but we don't know if he'd already bloodied his head against that particular wall long ago and given up.

 

On 8/11/2018 at 4:15 PM, IvySpice said:

Dottie is one situation where Dr. Now made the wrong call offering the skin removal surgery. If she can't stop smoking, and she doesn't have anyone to stay in town with her and help her, then there's no hope that an awful incision like that will heal.

I don't believe Dr. Now knew Dottie was smoking before he scheduled the skin removal. I think that's why he said at the end that he wasn't scheduling another surgery for her any time soon (because now he knows). Smoking is so dangerous for healing after surgery because of the way it constricts blood vessels and impedes blood flow to the healing areas. My brother needed surgery for several years that he couldn't get because his doctor refused to do it while he smoked and warned him he would test for nicotine before the surgery and cancel it if he was found to be smoking.

And finally, whoever edited that episode should be demoted to key grip or something. WTF with that "ending?"

Edited by Gbb.
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My guess is that with Dottie, Dr. Now didn't realize the husband would have to go back to work, and otherwise Dr. Now would have arranged for a personal care assistant for her.     I know he certainly didn't know about the smoking either.    I hope Dottie can get it under control, and find some way to get the rest of her skin surgery done to make her life better, and make her more mobile.      

I feel so sorry for Sean, because his mother has doomed him to join her soon, since I can't see him lasting much longer, and I suspect that he will hit the 1,000 lb mark very shortly.   I don't blame the father, because I'm betting the mother's abuse of Sean is probably what broke up the marriage, and I'm sure she kept the relationship with the father very separate.     If Dr. Now couldn't get the woman to see what she had done to her son, then I'm sure the ex had zero influence either.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama.
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On 8/20/2018 at 4:07 PM, Gbb said:

As others have mentioned, it's possible the yelling and verbal abuse his mother alleged was simply his father trying to set boundaries for Sean and stick to them and that when he couldn't win that battle against Munchhausen Mom, he noped on out of there.

So much yup. I handled divorces (mostly child support issues) for awhile back in the day. You come not to believe anything these people say about each other. I can absolutely see the dad as just trying to be a dad and mom and Sean having none of it. Much easier to be mom's 'little boy' than to learn discipline, etc. So, maybe dad was not a good guy. Maybe he was. We'll never know the real story. I do know I have relatives I don't want to deal with; I wouldn't be flying across the country to help them pack or whatev. His father did that. If he really didn't care, he could have stayed in California, especially knowing that dealing with Sean was not going to be a picnic. 

Edited by aliya.
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As someone said back on page 1 or so, this episode was just haunting.  I finally watched it a couple days ago and I am still thinking about it.  

Sean's mom definitely did him no favors.  I agree with most everything I have read, especially the munchausen by proxy, but I have another theory. 

We are friends with this family who has an only child who is or was slightly cognitively delayed (I don't know if this is the correct term, I think she just naturally has a lower IQ due to conditions of her birth) and her mother has always expressed her guilt about this, as if it was her fault. I should tell her to watch this show.  The kid is now over 25 years old now and has never had a job, never had to cook, doesn't do laundry, she basically sits in her room all day and plays on the computer.  She actually got through school and basic college classes (she got a certificate in office administration, not a degree), but to this date, no one has forced this young adult to grow up.  At this point, what is a parent to do?  It would be cruel to just throw her out there are let her fend for herself.  Sean is the worst case scenario of what happens to kids who are coddled too hard.  But how do you fix this when it has gone past the point of no return?

@aliya I totally agree with your take on the dad in that we will never know the truth, but I will bet $1 that he was just a traditional dad of the 1990s and expected his son to step up and become a man (and not be a whiny baby--I bet he even said phrases like "don't cry like a girl") and his mom was having none of that.  I would also bet $1 that this was the main catalyst of their divorce.  Someone also mentioned that Sean's mom never thought she wouldn't outlive him and I totally agree with this too. What a freaking shame.

One more thought....it astounds me that Sean is still alive and L.B. is dead... 

Edited by notyrmomma. Reason: spelling...sigh
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I was shocked to find out that Sean was a biter. I get that he had a crap upbringing but at some point a person has to take some responsibility for the choices that they make. How the hell are nurses supposed to care for a patient that could bite them? Muzzle him? Seriously....

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3 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I was shocked to find out that Sean was a biter. I get that he had a crap upbringing but at some point a person has to take some responsibility for the choices that they make. How the hell are nurses supposed to care for a patient that could bite them? Muzzle him? Seriously....

My son was "the biter" in daycare from about the ages of 2-4 and it was TERRIBLE!  We were told the reason why he bit was because he knew he was supposed to express himself or his frustrations by using words, i.e. his mouth, but couldn't, so he bit.  He got thrown out of like two daycares and it was a very tough process to break him of this habit (we read and re-read the "don't bite your friends" book and constantly reminded him to "use his words"), but finally it stopped.  You often see the biting again in dementia patients for the same reason and they often have to bounce around care facilities too because no one wants to put up with that crap.  What's Sean's excuse for biting?  Is his brain really this melted at this point? 

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At this point, what is a parent to do?  It would be cruel to just throw her out there are let her fend for herself. 

I think the first step is (not to be cliche) to admit this is a problem and that they (the parents) won't always be around to care for her. Next, sit the young lady down and apologize for dropping the ball on this aspect of parenting, then tell her the rules are changing. She gets household chores, including doing her own laundry and meal prep. If she doesn't do them, she doesn't have clean clothes or meals. She is required to get a job. Whatever they are paying for (phone, internet, car, etc.) stops immediately if she doesn't meet her responsibilities. She is required to get a job and pay her parents rent (even if it's a token amount). If they have the financial means to do so, they can put the rent she pays into a savings account to be used to offset costs when she moves out. 

There's a lot of room between coddling an adult child to the point of incapacitation and kicking her out into homelessness.

 

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How the hell are nurses supposed to care for a patient that could bite them? Muzzle him? Seriously....

Silence of the Lambs type precautions?

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Since Sean has a known history of biting, then he will never get into a long term care, or any other care facility.    He's a danger to others, and any facility that did not warn employees the second they find out about the biting, and when someone gets bitten, then the care facility will be sued and lose a lot.     I've actually heard of people dying from human bite triggered infections.      My guess is that he'll keep eating, and sitting there whining about his life, and someday his personal care assistant will walk in and he'll be dead.    

Edited by CrazyInAlabama.
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14 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

@aliya I totally agree with your take on the dad in that we will never know the truth, but I will bet $1 that he was just a traditional dad of the 1990s and expected his son to step up and become a man (and not be a whiny baby--I bet he even said phrases like "don't cry like a girl") and his mom was having none of that.  I would also bet $1 that this was the main catalyst of their divorce.  Someone also mentioned that Sean's mom never thought she wouldn't outlive him and I totally agree with this too. What a freaking shame.

I agree with you, of course we weren’t there, but I’m not giving Dad a pass. Mothers are seen to be evil incarnate if their children are abused/mistreated, and even if they do try to protect their children (when they are afraid themselves) they are deemed to be bad mothers. Fathers on the other hand are allowed to walk away if the mother is “too difficult”, if Sean’s Dad knew (or suspected) that his mother was harming him in this way and he didn’t intervene he doesn’t get a pass from me on how Sean turned out. Is he an evil person? No, he did arrive to help Sean but that’s his SON, not just some guy he knew. His son that was physically disabled (at least) and lost the one person that meant the most to him, he should’ve been there to help him. Perhaps if he had stepped in more Sean would’ve had the ability to make different choices now. 

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5 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Since Sean has a known history of biting, then he will never get into a long term care, or any other care facility.    He's a danger to others, and any facility that did not warn employees the second they find out about the biting, and when someone gets bitten, then the care facility will be sued and lose a lot.     I've actually heard of people dying from human bite triggered infections.      My guess is that he'll keep eating, and sitting there whining about his life, and someday his personal care assistant will walk in and he'll be dead.    

If a grown-ass man bit me, my first call would be to the police.   There is absolutely no excuse for that.

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14 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

My son was "the biter" in daycare from about the ages of 2-4 and it was TERRIBLE!  We were told the reason why he bit was because he knew he was supposed to express himself or his frustrations by using words, i.e. his mouth, but couldn't, so he bit.  He got thrown out of like two daycares and it was a very tough process to break him of this habit (we read and re-read the "don't bite your friends" book and constantly reminded him to "use his words"), but finally it stopped.  You often see the biting again in dementia patients for the same reason and they often have to bounce around care facilities too because no one wants to put up with that crap.  What's Sean's excuse for biting?  Is his brain really this melted at this point? 

Sounds like you did an amazing job of dealing with a stressful situation! My son was a climber, and while we had a couple of harrowing moments, it wasn't nearly as stressful as what you described.  Once when he was two, we caught him scaling my husband's 300 gallon fish tank. [My husband was a fish nerd. ;)] What we didn't notice was that his expedition caused small cracks at the bottom of the tank. I came downstairs the next morning to find that over half the tank's water had leaked out and was all over our living room carpet! But I digress... 

The big difference is that your son was a toddler when he was biting.  And, you took very effective measures to stop the behavior.

Sean, on the other hand, is a grown-assed man. His mother said he would bite because he had an anger problem.  I think he should have been charged for assault! I think he just is not a very nice person.

That behavior will keep him out of a personal care facility although I seem to remember something about Dr. Now telling him he would put him in some type of facility if he lost more weight which he never did.  I would hope that any prospective facility would be aware of his history and that he's a biter. It's pretty much a deal breaker.

17 minutes ago, toodles said:

If a grown-ass man bit me, my first call would be to the police.   There is absolutely no excuse for that.

I typed something and posted it before I saw this, but I used the same phrase, "grown-assed man." Sean is an adult!

I am amazed that he's gotten away with it. How has he not been prosecuted? 

Putting him in jail would be something of an adventure, but when it comes to assault, Sean should be treated just like everybody else.

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This is off topic, but I worked for the government for years, and I told other employees if they were assaulted like that don't rely on management to do anything about it.   

First you get a police report, complete with photos.   Then you go to a doctor, and get it documented, and get shots and screenings for STD's and other diseases like hepatitis that are transmitted that way, and then go see your friendly personal injury attorney, but first you file criminal charges against the person.

There is no excuse for a grown person, unless they have dementia or brain damage or are Hannibal Lechter, so you have to protect yourself.     

My guess is that the first second someone at a care facility found out about the biting, then Sean would be shown the door.     And if Dr. Now thinks it stopped, or simply didn't remember that behavior, then I'm sure someone saw that mention of biting, and I'm certain people would be warned about him.      That behavior is so over the top for a grown man.     His mother certainly should have been ashamed of the way she kept him a big baby.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama.
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Any alleged adult ever bit me, and they'd have to learn to gum their food for the rest of their life, because I'd slap the teeth right out of their head. 

Edited by QuinnInND. Reason: Because my phone decided on a different word than what I wanted.
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Once when he was two, we caught him scaling my husband's 300 gallon fish tank. [My husband was a fish nerd. ;)] What we didn't notice was that his expedition caused small cracks at the bottom of the tank. I came downstairs the next morning to find that over half the tank's water had leaked out and was all over our living room carpet!

What happened to the fish?

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14 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

This is off topic, but I worked for the government for years, and I told other employees if they were assaulted like that don't rely on management to do anything about it.   

First you get a police report, complete with photos.   Then you go to a doctor, and get it documented, and get shots and screenings for STD's and other diseases like hepatitis that are transmitted that way, and then go see your friendly personal injury attorney, but first you file criminal charges against the person.

There is no excuse for a grown person, unless they have dementia or brain damage or are Hannibal Lechter, so you have to protect yourself.     

My guess is that the first second someone at a care facility found out about the biting, then Sean would be shown the door.     And if Dr. Now thinks it stopped, or simply didn't remember that behavior, then I'm sure someone saw that mention of biting, and I'm certain people would be warned about him.      That behavior is so over the top for a grown man.     His mother certainly should have been ashamed of the way she kept him a big baby.  

Yes, she destroyed his life. Maybe he would have had issues regardless but she certainly didn't give him the "best" she could. 

On a side note, I used to pinch people when I was little. Nothing stopped me until one of my mom's old friends pinched me back (she asked my mom first of course). I stopped pinching then and there. 

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Is there an original post where it talks about Sean and biting?

I would love to know the backstory on this,

I would knock his teeth out too, except I really would never get close enough to him to do it.  Blech.......

I think he probably needs to be in some sort of an institution type facility unless or until he gets his life together.

Any kind of coddling or care facility would be the worst thing for him.

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19 hours ago, Cherrio said:

Is there an original post where it talks about Sean and biting?

I would love to know the backstory on this,

I would knock his teeth out too, except I really would never get close enough to him to do it.  Blech.......

I think he probably needs to be in some sort of an institution type facility unless or until he gets his life together.

Any kind of coddling or care facility would be the worst thing for him.

I'd like to know the answer to that question as well Cherrio. I watched both his original and follow-up episodes, and participated in the Live Chats for both and cannot recall any mention of him having a biting issue. He definitely needs to reign in that behavior asap 'cause if he pulls that crap with the wrong (or right) person, he may very well get the dog shit beaten out of him.

As for him being in a facility, as I recall, Sean asked Dr. Now if he could find him a place in a facility and Dr. Now then responded with some obvious irritation telling Sean that he couldn't justify him taking up the space in a facility that should be reserved for someone who really needs it. Sadly, at the age of 25, Sean's primary life goal seems to be becoming a resident of a nursing home.

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My mother was the same type of control freak with my youngest brother, and coddled, and sheltered him until my father finally figured out how she was babying him (my father worked insanely long hours).     My brother was in first or second grade before a teacher sent home a note saying she was not going to tie his shoes for him, yes mom tied his shoes, sat across from him at the table so she could cut his meat, and butter his bread for him.     I taught my brother to tie his shoes, and my mother hated that teacher's guts for beginning the process of my father realizing how bad it was for him.    My dad's hours meant he saw very little of my youngest brother, so it wasn't all his denial.    

I'm betting that by the time Sean's father realized how toxic and controlling the mother was, that it was too late, and that caused the divorce.    I do know of divorces from the 50's and 60's where the father got full custody, but it was rare.     I'm betting the father never even saw Sean after the divorce, unless he wanted to make Sean visit him, and that doesn't work.     I would guess that Sean and his mother weren't even in touch with the father, and who knows how he found out his ex died.     At this late date, I don't think anything would change Sean, and I suspect he is beyond help.     His mother was just as evil as James K's Lisa turned out to be on their follow up episode.  

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Sean is the oldest young man I've ever come across.
Even his voice is old.  Mom has a lot to answer for.

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On 8/24/2018 at 10:37 PM, Cherrio said:

Is there an original post where it talks about Sean and biting?

I would love to know the backstory on this,

I would knock his teeth out too, except I really would never get close enough to him to do it.  Blech.......

I think he probably needs to be in some sort of an institution type facility unless or until he gets his life together.

Any kind of coddling or care facility would be the worst thing for him.

They talk about it in Sean's initial episode when we are first introduced to Sean. Sean talks about having bitten other people before. And, his mother brushes it off as her son having anger problems.

Of course, maybe he wasn't angry. Maybe he was just hungry.

Edited by CoachWristletJen.
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On 8/24/2018 at 11:56 AM, Elizzikra said:

What happened to the fish?

They did okay. There was still enough water for them to swim around in. My husband got them a new tank.

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On 8/23/2018 at 9:07 AM, Elizzikra said:

Silence of the Lambs type precautions?

I had to smile at this. A few of us in my doctoral cohort did our defenses around the same time. We thought it would be great to strap one of us to a hand truck, wearing the Hannibal Lecter mask, and roll the defender into the room. Bets on which committee member would pass out first. : ) 

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Even if the father had tried to leave and take Sean, the chances of a mother getting custody taken away is slim.     I've known of a few cases from the 50's, and 60's where the dad got full custody, and no interference from the mother, and the mothers have to either disappear, or have some other major reason to lose custody.   Even being abusive, or some kind of addict isn't enough to get visitation stopped even now.    

 

I think the suicide outcome for Sean is right, and he's committing it one pizza at a time.     I think he truly thinks he will get into a care center if he's immobile, but I bet he's wrong.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama.
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On 9/1/2018 at 11:49 AM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Even if the father had tried to leave and take Sean, the chances of a mother getting custody taken away is slim.     I've known of a few cases from the 50's, and 60's where the dad got full custody, and no interference from the mother, and the mothers have to either disappear, or have some other major reason to lose custody.   Even being abusive, or some kind of addict isn't enough to get visitation stopped even now.    

 

I think the suicide outcome for Sean is right, and he's committing it one pizza at a time.     I think he truly thinks he will get into a care center if he's immobile, but I bet he's wrong.  

I know family law is filled with biases and stressors but there’s a big difference between “walking away and sending child support” and “full custody”. I saw the crime doc “Mommy Dead and Dearest” about Gypsy Rose Blanchard- her mother had been abusing her for years via Muchausen by Proxy and her Dad was CLUELESS to anything because he wasn’t present, At. All. The direct deposit child support and the bday card each year was the extent of his parenting- and that’s not okay. 

 

Lets put it this way, if Sean’s Dad had raised him this way and his Mom stepped away (while sending child support/ bday and Xmas gifts) she would be deemed evil incarnate. 

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  ON 7/25/2018 AT 9:49 PM, SIMBA BARRACUDA SAID:

Hey! It’s a fitted sheet!

*ba-dum ching*

I *liked* this after reading it in the live chat, but for some reason I had to come back and let you know that I laughed out loud when I read it. ❤

(Yes, I know it has to be hard to find clothing. Maybe the patients could wear hospital gowns -- those would cover one side all the time and most of the flip side some of the time.)

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