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S05.E14: Ho, Ho, Ho 2018.07.12

I rewatched-had missed a lot. 

 If you watch closely Thomas often looks repulsed by Ashley. When she speaks he makes these faces to himself that she can’t see. Something is really wrong, she must have something big on him. There is no other reason for them to still be together. 

Patricia is intimidating as hell. 

How did Craig pass the character and fitness test? He said they want to know you’re honest but he admitted that he is a huge  liar on national TV. Good luck with that Craig. 

Those pillows were hideous. Yikes. 

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46 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I read this too quickly and thought you were suggesting he might be making pillow covers for a law firm.  Which might be exactly his perfect niche job.  :) 

Actually, he should totally do lawyer/legal-themed pillows! Perfect pillows to fit the decor of many a random law firm office or the home of any law professional. Then he’d still be pursuing something vaguely within the law field while still scratching his creative sewing itch—-then maybe he could move into more home decor items with legal-themed blankets or sheets, table-runners, napkins or placemats.

It’s just so crazy and random that it might be the niche job that truly fits his skills!

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28 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

just so crazy and random that it might be the niche job that truly fits his skills!

They probably don’t have law themed templates preprogrammed into his embroidery machine and that’s his main talent other than sewing rectangles.

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Well, regarding Craig, I don't get where he was abusive, conniving or a master manipulater.   He came across to me as just a guy who wasn't  focused and lackadaisical.  Naomi wanted him to be more driven, but he just wasn't there yet.  Seeing that he did pass the bar, there must of been a side of him we didn't get to see on the show where he studied a lot because you don't pass the bar on reading cliff notes.  Yeah, his house was unkempt, but that is a trait of most bachelors, plus he was in the process of doing some major remodeling of the space.  Remember Shep`s place when he was the partying boy and Cameron went looking for him when he didn't show up for the house showing?  His place was a complete mess.  I guess after Cameron`s chastisement and a visit to the doctor where he was told he needed to cut down his drinking, he cleaned up his act a bit.  Naomi kicked Craig to the  curb,  yet goes batshit crazy if he acts interested in any other female.  That's not how a woman who some think might have been abused by him would act.  Maybe Craig was suffering from the breakup blues and/or depression which could have also contributed to his slothiness.  Every time Craig tried to talk to Naomi, post breakup, she kept dismissing him, yet it seems she was still looking for his attention.  Despite their faults, I think they loved each other, but he just wasn't  motivated enough for her.  

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Craig is lazy and unfocused and self absorbed with delusions of grandeur and no follow through.  I think he would make most people crazy.  And he is a giant jackass to anyone that calls him on his BS.  I get frustrated just watching him.  I think that this season he's making a half assed attempt at broadening his reality TV horizons.  I think while he's not being a lawyer he's been watching HGTV and got the idea that he can make pillows, do flower arrangements, and remodel his house himself and some producer would see that and pick him to be a host on some real estate design or crafting show.  Or some lifestyle brand company would pick him as their figurehead.  But because he doesn't bother to gain any education or experience on how to do this stuff, it comes across as Craig being an idiot man child again.

But at the same time, I don't really understand why this aspect of Craig's personality bothers me as much as it does.  And I say that because he's really no different than anyone else on this show.  None of them seem to actually work.  They are collecting the TV paycheck and that doesn't really allow for a 9-5 job.  But it doesn't bug me as much with the rest of the cast.  And its also odd that the rest of the cast does basically nothing more than Craig does but looks down on him .  It kind of reeks of entitlement and an ingrained belief that the investment of their inheritances is akin to actually working for their income and Craig is lesser than them because he doesn't work (outside of the show) while not having family money.

Maybe its because Craig is trapped into feeling like he needs to do something worthwhile but doesn't follow through and lies about it.  While everyone else is fine with not doing anything because they are deluding themselves that they already do.

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55 minutes ago, DelicateDee said:

That's not how a woman who some think might have been abused by him would act. 

There is no one way people who are in relationships of any kind good/bad/ugly/abusive/indifferent act.

Edited by biakbiak.
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On 7/13/2018 at 1:18 AM, bichonblitz said:

Xanax is not a drug that would be prescribed to an addict in recovery. I think she was drinking. Mix that with anti depressants and presto you get medicated Kathryn. 

She passed all her random tests.

Can we just take a moment to acknowledge how stunning and statuesque Kathryn was in that black dress? Sheesh!

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1 hour ago, ozzy said:

Can we just take a moment to acknowledge how stunning and statuesque Kathryn was in that black dress? Sheesh!

She's beautiful, but she didn't walk well in the dress, the tiara was stupid and her hair and makeup were atrocious. It's interesting that Thomas always seems to be most attracted to her when she's done up like the poor man's Jessica Rabbit - cartoonish and unreal. He wants flashy toys, not relationships. He wants barefoot Appalachian Li'l Abner Barbie (all credit to Michael Kors Project Runway Season 2) or Malibu Psycho Nurse Barbie, not real women.

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20 hours ago, gunderda said:

I'm a Kathryn fan but it was SOOOOO obviously on season 1 (when I didn't like her) that she was trying to 1. Get on the show 2. Get on the show by hooking up with any of the guys that had money.  She went after Whitney, Shepp and Thomas. The only one she stayed away from was Craig and I've always thought it was because he didn't have money. 

I never saw season 1 that way. I saw Kathryn as a 20 year old party girl who got to drink and figured why not get paid to do it for TV. Whitney brought her on the show to try to Eliza Doolittle her into a Southern Belle. I remember being very grossed out by him and Patricia discussing her family name and lineage as though they planning to breed horses. But, there never seemed to be anything remotely physical between Whitney and Kathryn. But, I do think one of the main things I took away from that season was that both Shep and Thomas wanted Kathryn as a notch on their bed post. Kathryn may have been trying to snag a rich dude, but I doubt it had anything to do with getting on the show. She was already on the show, and I sincerely doubt that any of them, least of Kathryn expected the show to be anything other than a summer's worth of filming. 

I was always bugged by all of the slut shaming of Kathryn that happened in her first season. Here she was LITERALLY a year away from being a teenager and having older guys fawn over her and buy her drinks (seriously, her first pregnancy scare with Thomas happened before she even turned 21). Except for the older guy part (especially if that guy is Thomas), that is literally the dream for millions of 20 year olds who have no idea how to live life. It's the reason so many of the reality shows even existed at the time this show first aired. But, for some reason it was always Kathryn being blamed for being manipulative and just doing things to get on the show. And I think it is solely because she slept with more than one guy on the same show. I remember watching the show back then and feeling sorry for the beating she was taking on line and thinking, she is acting exactly like a 20-22 year old would act. The fact that the second youngest person on the show still had a good 10 years on her in age made her immaturity and inability to reason through these situations that much more glaring to me. Add in a manipulating gaslighter like Thomas and Kathryn was suddenly the perfect villian. 

Sorry, that wasn't even the reason I was commenting. I wanted to ask why Craig used a coat hanger to zip his pants. I'm assuming he screwed up his dominant hand, but couldn't just use his other hand to zip his pants? I don't have a penis so maybe I'm missing something, but would it be less dangerous to use his working hand than to use  said hand to poke a metal object in his penis area?

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1 hour ago, MatildaMoody said:

 

Sorry, that wasn't even the reason I was commenting. I wanted to ask why Craig used a coat hanger to zip his pants. I'm assuming he screwed up his dominant hand, but couldn't just use his other hand to zip his pants? I don't have a penis so maybe I'm missing something, but would it be less dangerous to use his working hand than to use  said hand to poke a metal object in his penis area?

normally you need two hands, one to hold the zipper parts together and one to pull up.  He can't hold onto anything with the bad hand so i think he was holding onto his pants with one hand and using the hanger (in his mouth i think?) to pull the zipper up. 

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It's hard for me to believe that Whitney and Kathryn really slept together. I know they both say they did, so I guess I have to believe it, but he doesn't seem like he's heterosexual at all to me. Again-I am always of the opinion that this stuff is more scripted than real. I wonder how much of the first season was "supposed" to be a love triangle with Kathryn, Whitney and TRav and that just fell apart? I can believe that she slept with Shep and vice versa. But Whitney??! And it's not that I think she wouldn't - I can't imagine that he would? Tough to wrap my brain around.

I think Craig is super-frustrating. And I think Naomie is mean. And they are just a bad combo together. Sad for Gizmo.

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On 7/16/2018 at 11:28 AM, gunderda said:

I'm a Kathryn fan but it was SOOOOO obviously on season 1 (when I didn't like her) that she was trying to 1. Get on the show 2. Get on the show by hooking up with any of the guys that had money.  She went after Whitney, Shepp and Thomas. The only one she stayed away from was Craig and I've always thought it was because he didn't have money. 

 

If this were truly the case, she would have stayed with Whitney as it came out later that he was smitten by her. Part of Patricia's hatred for Kathryn was in response to Whitney's bruised ego. I gather that he got to her first, as well. She could have hung her hat on him, but she didn't want to. And he was vicious towards her, much like a scorned woman. Kathryn clearly has an allure that these guys couldn't resist, and even through television lens, I see it as well. She's my favourite character now. Hideous Ashley can crawl back under that rock that Thomas found her residing.

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:20 PM, dosodog said:

Austin is weak.  If you can't say the shit directly to someone's face, then don't say it at all.  He deserved everything Ashley said to him 

I didn't see that at all. Ashley just talks over people and refuses to follow the discussion. He's trying to tell Thomas what's being said and Ashley and her homely bookend attacked. Didn't let him finish a sentence and he's too much of a gentleman (and given the function they were attending) to rage at her and tell her to step down. Craig was to the point, and she lied about her intentions while trying to hook up with a backup. She and Thomas deserve each other.

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14 minutes ago, Chalby said:

If this were truly the case, she would have stayed with Whitney as it came out later that he was smitten by her. Part of Patricia's hatred for Kathryn was in response to Whitney's bruised ego. I gather that he got to her first, as well. She could have hung her hat on him, but she didn't want to. And he was vicious towards her, much like a scorned woman. Kathryn clearly has an allure that these guys couldn't resist, and even through television lens, I see it as well. She's my favourite character now. Hideous Ashley can crawl back under that rock that Thomas found her residing.

BUT wasn't it said that she dropped Whitney for Thomas? Thomas probably came across as more established with more money.  He had the huge plantation whereas Whitney lived with his mother (while in town)

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:27 PM, annewithaneee said:

 I firmly believe that Thomas's type isn't "crazy women" so much as he's a classic abuser who consciously or not goes after women who are vulnerable and can be controlled/manipulated. 

Also, good on Kathryn. She didn't handle that elegantly, but she didn't fully take the bait.

Great post. I agree re: Thomas being a classic abuser. It's clear he has a narcissistic personality, and we all watched him go off on Chelsea on the ferry at Hilton Head. I truly believe we finally saw the real T-Rav.

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:29 PM, breezy424 said:

Congrats to Kat for the confirmation that she has 50/50 custody.  She may not have to worry about Ashley being around her children if their father goes to jail.  I wouldn't want her around my children either. 

Great post. Doesn't it kill you that Kathryn went through all that hell and has tried so hard to keep it together when that jerk can randomly test her and question her sobriety? She lost custody because they found pot in her system? Thomas and Ashley are clearly alcoholics, and I am pretty sure Shep, Austin and Craig like their spliffs, YET Kathryn is vilified for everything. She was just too young. Granted, this hardnose court approach helped her reach a better place BUT the hypocrisy offends me.

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:28 PM, cyberfruit said:

JD: Ew. Like that his ex-wife gave him shit, though. Yeah she looks good -- she dropped XXX lbs of deadweight! 

Thank you for posting this. He absolutely disgusts me. I don't know what the heck he had on, but he looked like a pimp. His ex looked fabulous (did you catch the mens' snide remarks about her being 'out there' on display? Pigs)

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42 minutes ago, Chalby said:

she would have stayed with Whitney as it came out later that he was smitten by her

I am guessing he was lousy in bed. Money can only buy so much happiness.

 

8 minutes ago, Chalby said:

She lost custody because they found pot in her system

There’s a video out there of her stoned out of her gourd when she was pregnant with Saint, and Kensie was screaming for someone to give her a bottle or whatever. Thomas went outside to find her and she was with her hairdresser, smoking pot and drinking. It was not just a one-time thing.

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1 hour ago, Chalby said:

She lost custody because they found pot in her system?

The only reason there was even a custody issue is because Kathryn refused to allow Thomas to see the children because she wasn’t happy with how much child support she was getting, even though it was more than the state would have forced him to pay, leaving Thomas’s only recourse to go to the courts and allowed all this stuff to be used against her.

Thomas is a vile piece of shit but Kathryn has brought a lot of things on herself through her actions.

Edited by biakbiak.
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On 7/12/2018 at 8:49 PM, Coffeewinewater said:

I haven't finished the episode but something seems off about Kathryn at Patricia's dinner. Her way of speaking her eyes....I thought she maybe had a few drinks, idk. she didn't seem like the same Kathryn I've seen all season. 

I immediately thought xanax or valium, which makes sense given anxiety. Doctor's orders, lol

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On 7/13/2018 at 2:28 AM, Flybutter said:

imagine if the Supreme Court of the State of South Carolina then says, “Nope. You’re a lying liar who lies and will not become an officer of this Court.”

I can't imagine that being a good liar would be a hindrance in becoming a lawyer.

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On 7/13/2018 at 4:02 AM, Flybutter said:

But this whole concept of him becoming a “lawyer for hire”, where “it's kind of got to be a specialty firm where I can come in and close stuff off for people that can't do it themselves”, does sound a bit rich coming from a guy who can’t finish a pillow-stuffing project.

Sounds like maybe he should get a card table, (2) chairs, and a briefcase from Goodwill.  He can set up his office outside of Small Claims Court--on whatever schedule suits him...until the law runs him off.

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Craig is apparently filming a project in the Bahamas with Whitney, though he is briefly back in Charleston, so I don’t think practicing law is high on his priority list.

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On 7/13/2018 at 6:38 AM, Caseysgirl said:

 Katherine has so little in the way of basic knowledge of etiquette and class, as well as a serious lack of intelligence, so it wouldn’t seem as though she was brought up with the kind of education that a real a Southern Belle would have.  It amazes me that she would be considered a “ catch” by these guys.

I seriously have to disagree with you here. Considering what 'growing up' she's had to do the last 5 years, I find her to be quite intelligent. Her wit alone shows she's a deep well. When Patricia remarked that Kathryn was 'uneducated' I had to laugh as people who need to list their degrees as proof of their intelligence often have none.

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On 7/13/2018 at 12:26 PM, ezzy4 said:

There is something so off about Craig . . . that non stop lying . . . convoluting every conversation . . . greasy hair . . . unlivable housing conditions . . . inability to focus on any single task . . .  Something pretty serious seems to be going on.  Substance abuses? Mental illness?   Idk, but something. 

 

I find that Craig reminds me of kids I counsel who have severe ADHD. He's obviously bright, but prone to disorganization to the extreme. He may even suffer from depression as the 2 diagnoses are often together

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19 hours ago, biakbiak said:

There is no one way people who are in relationships of any kind good/bad/ugly/abusive/indifferent act.

That could be true, but Naomi wasn't in an abusive situation, just a frustrating one.  There was nothing shown to support abuse, as an earlier poster was suggesting.

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19 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Craig is lazy and unfocused and self absorbed with delusions of grandeur and no follow through.  I think he would make most people crazy.  And he is a giant jackass to anyone that calls him on his BS.  I get frustrated just watching him.  I think that this season he's making a half assed attempt at broadening his reality TV horizons.  I think while he's not being a lawyer he's been watching HGTV and got the idea that he can make pillows, do flower arrangements, and remodel his house himself and some producer would see that and pick him to be a host on some real estate design or crafting show.  Or some lifestyle brand company would pick him as their figurehead.  But because he doesn't bother to gain any education or experience on how to do this stuff, it comes across as Craig being an idiot man child again.

But at the same time, I don't really understand why this aspect of Craig's personality bothers me as much as it does.  And I say that because he's really no different than anyone else on this show.  None of them seem to actually work.  They are collecting the TV paycheck and that doesn't really allow for a 9-5 job.  But it doesn't bug me as much with the rest of the cast.  And its also odd that the rest of the cast does basically nothing more than Craig does but looks down on him .  It kind of reeks of entitlement and an ingrained belief that the investment of their inheritances is akin to actually working for their income and Craig is lesser than them because he doesn't work (outside of the show) while not having family money.

Maybe its because Craig is trapped into feeling like he needs to do something worthwhile but doesn't follow through and lies about it.  While everyone else is fine with not doing anything because they are deluding themselves that they already do.

Your second  paragraph is what I was going to reply to in the same manner. I don't know why Craig is being the whipping boy, more or less, when the other guys don't seem to be doing much either. Other than Austin trying to make something out of beer, just what do these other men do? Also I've been reading that Craig lies and that he admit it he was a liar, but I'll have to pay more attention because I don't remember him admitting to being a liar. Also what was the big lie? The only thing I can remember is the law school thing where he claimed that he finished law school or something but he didn't really at that time.  Was that the big lie?

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14 minutes ago, DelicateDee said:

I don't remember him admitting to being a liar.

In his conversation with the life coach, an episode or two back, he stated he "was a really good liar" or something like that.  He gave no specifics though...never admitted to lying about a given thing.

Edited by SuprSuprElevated.
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25 minutes ago, DelicateDee said:

where he claimed that he finished law school or something but he didn't really at that time.  Was that the big lie?

Finished law school, eligible to take the bar, for three plus years, to his parents and friends which is pretty freaking big.

he told his life coach that he he was a great liar this season. 

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20 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Craig is lazy and unfocused and self absorbed with delusions of grandeur and no follow through.  I think he would make most people crazy.  And he is a giant jackass to anyone that calls him on his BS.  I get frustrated just watching him. 

Actually, he doesn't have any delusions of grandeur, that's why he recognizes he's a huge liar. He's probably the only one who (deep down) is truly aware that he has nothing to offer at this moment n his life. I feel bad for him because I remember being young and aimless, with no self esteem... Now I am just old and aimless, with no apologies. lol

Edited by Chalby.
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3 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

I am guessing he was lousy in bed. Money can only buy so much happiness.

 

There’s a video out there of her stoned out of her gourd when she was pregnant with Saint, and Kensie was screaming for someone to give her a bottle or whatever. Thomas went outside to find her and she was with her hairdresser, smoking pot and drinking. It was not just a one-time thing.

What will the courts do when pot becomes legal? Ban only mothers from smoking? I have never seen Kathryn stoned out of her gourd while with the children, and I am certainly not going to give credence to any deposition of  Thomas'. (Unless it was the hairdresser - that's a different story.) I still feel it's vastly hypocritical.

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9 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

I was always bugged by all of the slut shaming of Kathryn that happened in her first season. Here she was LITERALLY a year away from being a teenager and having older guys fawn over her and buy her drinks (seriously, her first pregnancy scare with Thomas happened before she even turned 21). Except for the older guy part (especially if that guy is Thomas), that is literally the dream for millions of 20 year olds who have no idea how to live life. It's the reason so many of the reality shows even existed at the time this show first aired. But, for some reason it was always Kathryn being blamed for being manipulative and just doing things to get on the show. And I think it is solely because she slept with more than one guy on the same show. I remember watching the show back then and feeling sorry for the beating she was taking on line and thinking, she is acting exactly like a 20-22 year old would act. The fact that the second youngest person on the show still had a good 10 years on her in age made her immaturity and inability to reason through these situations that much more glaring to me. Add in a manipulating gaslighter like Thomas and Kathryn was suddenly the perfect villian. 

AWESOME post!!! It was disgusting that nobody was recognizing Kathryn for the young woman she was. It actually bothered me how many women slut-shamed her online. I thought we had moved on from the 50s.

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A prime example of Craig trying to manipulate Naomie is when he asked her if they were going to the ball together when he'd already asked the other girl, all the while trying to play like his intentions were sincere. If he was serious about Naomie, he wouldn't have another date on warm standby. That is what she was referring to when she told him he wasn't an authentic person and to f*ck off.

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Or when they were supposed to be at a party and Craig took forever to get ready, so not wanting to be late (as, evidently they often were), Naomie left without him.  When Craig got there, he called her a fucking moron and a child and also accused her of trying to drag all of their friends into something, when he was the one who had started the issue.  

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