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The Conners: Speculation and Spoilers

1 hour ago, BeachDays said:

Bastet, why are you convinced this will screw up her life? 

Because her life isn't that great to begin with, so she's not happy with it, wants to change it, but isn't quite sure how, and this is going to further limit her options for the future; she's been stuck in place all these years, and this is something that will up her chances of staying that way.  She is only able to set aside a little money as it is, so it's going to be difficult to support a child on her salary - especially when the other parent is a busboy with even more limited prospects for a measurably better job in the near future - and having a child will significantly reduce her odds of getting the kind of education or training that would give her a job with better income, stable hours, decent benefits, and the sense of accomplishment she feels she's been missing.  Having kids in this country has an economic impact on women - across education and experience levels and profession - that it doesn't have on men (in fact, while women with children earn less than those without, fathers earn more than their child-free counterparts).  The odds are already stacked against her in life given her socioeconomic status and limited education, and this will be one more thing. 

I just feel sorry for her that it's going to get even harder for her right as she's beginning to try to improve her life.  Like I said, it doesn't have to be a disaster - only time will tell - and if she's decided she truly does want to be a parent, then at least she gets that out of it, but it's certainly not an "Oh, how nice for Becky, she's pregnant!" scenario.

Edited by Bastet.
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21 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm not Bastet but I'll tell you why I think it could screw up her life. She's broke, she has no education and no skills. She has a job where she's on her feet all day and she's no spring chicken. The cost of living may be low in Lanford but it's not free. She has a drinking problem that she may or may not be able to recover from. I don't know how  long she's been pregnant but she has been drinking heavily enough so far that the baby may have special needs. I'd say her life was screwed up to begin with and having a kid is going to make her life so much harder. YMMV.

 

It just depends on what they want to do storywise-   I’m guessing she isn’t going to have a harder time than she has been having, although there will certainly be issues bc this is a tv show based on struggle.   But if the character didn’t have a baby, she would still struggle bc again, it’s a tv show about a struggling family.   

 

For  what it’s worth, she wasn’t showing yet in the episode I saw filmed.   

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I think Becky can fix her life with or without the baby. I just think the baby adds a very surprising wrinkle we don't often see on TV; you see alcoholism stories or pregnancy stories, you rarely see both with the same person. But that's real life. As long as they don't make Becky's whole future about the baby I'm very open to the story. She deserves to get her degree.

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Becky was rudderless until she was approached for the surrogacy then that nascent motivation to change her life sputtered when it fell through.  It wasn't until Dan vetoed her working and drinking that she's made any effort since. (That we've seen, anyway.)  If someone needs external motivation and accountability to change, then a baby might well have a very positive impact on her life.  (Has anyone ever read any of Gretchen Rubin's books about the 4 tendencies?  I can see Becky as an Obliger.)  

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If Becky has a baby, this could help her get out of the doldrums since Mark's death, and give her something other than herself to care for and live for.  Of course she won't forget Mark and her loss will always be with her, but another human being she loves and cares for might be a wonderful thing.  I know her life won't be all sunshine and roses, but it doesn't have to be a storm of doom and gloom either.  It's not like she's all alone with no emotional support.

So, who's going to throw the wedding for Becky and Busboy?  ;)

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The instant they had Becky explain last season that she always wanted a baby even though the family thought she didn't, I suspected she'd get knocked up eventually. She was my first guess for a pregnancy before the twofer of the alcoholism story and the ongoing David/Darlene subplot threw me. I'm glad they're able to juggle two balls with Becky's character.

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Has it ever been revealed when Mark died? I guess since Darlene's son was named after him I guess it had to have been prior to his birth.

Weird she would have only started wanting a child this long after.

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I wondered if they were going to tie Mark's death into when Glenn Quinn died and was surprised to learn that he died 16 years ago.  I didn't realize it had been that long. 

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Not sure why, but I always assumed that Mark died close to the time of younger Mark's birth, as David didn't really know his son and the older Mark's death was the cause of his downward spiral. (And Becky's.) 

It would be nice of the show to give us some more facts about it.  Maybe we'll get some info with the upcoming focus on Becky.

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it's sad that they felt they had to kill off Glenn Quinn's character rather than have him live on off screen. The character doesn't always have to die with the actor.

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1 hour ago, tessaray said:

Not sure why, but I always assumed that Mark died close to the time of younger Mark's birth, as David didn't really know his son and the older Mark's death was the cause of his downward spiral. (And Becky's.) 

It would be nice of the show to give us some more facts about it.  Maybe we'll get some info with the upcoming focus on Becky.

 

This is what I think too.   Also there was a quick mention by Blue in the ep I saw filmed about getting David a therapist.   It was just a quick statement and not sure if it will be cut or touched upon again but I was like yes, please, let’s heal these broken characters.   

 

I am so looking forward to Becky’s storyline this season.   Lecy was always great but she’s been stellar since the reboot.   

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7 hours ago, JacquelineAppleton said:

it's sad that they felt they had to kill off Glenn Quinn's character rather than have him live on off screen. The character doesn't always have to die with the actor.

Okay one the entire cast have respect for Glenn Quinn. Honestly It would have not been the same if they had someone else play Mark. Glenn Quinn made the character memorable.

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This is a hard call for me. I guessed who when the story started but my issue is with ANY more kids by anyone. We have plenty on the canvas already who are underused. DJ and family could do well fleshing out their story. Hell we have 2 kids missing now. If I want to see a birth and never see the growth of plot or character I'll keep up with Y&R or any other soap. Plus we have very limited episodes.

The other side of me sees Jackie in Becky as she is trying to be seen like Darlene and Roseanne. She wants what she thinks they have. 

Glenn Quinn....Damn I loved that kid. He slipped out of character every once in a while and you could hear his accent.

All this to say, I guess it doesn't matter as much to me. We don't know how long this show will last. It's no 20 year SVU. I'll take this season though. I've been waiting way too long for this damn thing to  come down the pike. 

If they don't come back maybe we can get reunion shows like they did with Facts of Life.  

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1 hour ago, RocknRollZombie said:

. Honestly It would have not been the same if they had someone else play Mark. Glenn Quinn made the character memorable.

I guess they could have had it that he and Becky divorced and he moved away.  But I agree that it's better that they killed off the character.   It's so sad but except for those few people watching The Conners who've never seen Roseanne most of us were expecting they'd have had Mark die.  I don't think it would have gone over well if he'd just been offscreen. 

Edited by CherryAmes.
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1 hour ago, CherryAmes said:

I guess they could have had it that he and Becky divorced and he moved away.  But I agree that it's better that they killed off the character. 

Me, too.  It would be very easy to explain his absence by saying they divorced - statistically, they were quite likely to.  But they also needed to explain Becky's stasis and David's abandonment of his kids (again, quite believable to say there was a divorce, but they had to address the lack of parenting, too), and death instead of divorce covers all those bases.

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Becky has been my favorite since the show began , and I would really love to see her get a break.  Would love for her to fall in love with a handsome widower with children and a steady income. I really want Becky to find a "happily ever after". But, I guess I have been watching too many Hallmark movies, and TPTB don't want Becky to be happy and secure. 

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It's sad that Quinn passed away but Mark having died is actually a juicy plot point that writer's would presumably love to sink their teeth into. The effects it had on Becky and the family etc.

Roseanne was the anti Full House. There were few ups and many downs on Roseanne. If the revival had just been about how great everyone was doing, you might as well watch Fuller House.

I think so far the dead Mark plot point has been under utilized and they really only pay it lip service. The original show tackled really serious issues like teen pregnancy and spousal abuse yet somehow slid in moments of comic genius. 

Would be nice if they gave us one solid episode devoted to what happened to Mark and the sincere impact it had on Becky. I mean, do we even know how he died yet? I admit I haven't kept up with season 11.

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7 minutes ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

Would be nice if they gave us one solid episode devoted to what happened to Mark and the sincere impact it had on Becky. I mean, do we even know how he died yet? I admit I haven't kept up with season 11.

I don't believe we heard a cause of death, but I did miss two episodes of the revival season of Roseanne, so it's possible I missed it.  I don't think we'll get an episode focused on it, but I suspect we'll get some more background on Mark's death and its impact on Becky via this pregnancy storyline -- she didn't wind up having a baby with her husband, wasn't planning on motherhood after that, and is now pregnant by one of her two casual flings of the moment.  It would be odd for her not to reflect on how this is not at all how she had once pictured becoming a mother.

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6 hours ago, Mocha Decaf said:

Becky has been my favorite since the show began , and I would really love to see her get a break.  Would love for her to fall in love with a handsome widower with children and a steady income. I really want Becky to find a "happily ever after". But, I guess I have been watching too many Hallmark movies, and TPTB don't want Becky to be happy and secure. 

Maybe they want her to be happier and more secure without depending on  a man.

Edited by DangerousMinds.
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They never mentioned Mark's cause of death. Life without him was discussed in one ep last season, when Becky told Roseanne she'd wanted children though the family had thought she didn't. They also had a Glenn Quinn memorial card at the end of the episode.

I think if Mark was going to divorce Becky it would've happened fast after their life out of state went belly-up. By the end of the series he seemed fully devoted to her and the Conners as his whole life. Becky was the one I could've seen divorcing him during Lecy's brief return to the role in Season 8, but they never followed up on her dissatisfaction as a woman (until now). When Sarah Chalke was in the role Becky was nothing but a cheery blonde cipher.

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20 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't believe we heard a cause of death, but I did miss two episodes of the revival season of Roseanne, so it's possible I missed it.  I don't think we'll get an episode focused on it, but I suspect we'll get some more background on Mark's death and its impact on Becky via this pregnancy storyline -- she didn't wind up having a baby with her husband, wasn't planning on motherhood after that, and is now pregnant by one of her two casual flings of the moment.  It would be odd for her not to reflect on how this is not at all how she had once pictured becoming a mother.

I watched the episode last night and was happy to see the scene where Dan and Becky share experiences about losing s spouse.

With Roseanne having died it looks like Dan dealing with her death is going to trounce Becky dealing with Mark's death so we will likely never get that episode I wished for.

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I just felt that Mark should have somehow gotten the happy life Glenn Quinn never got. Sandy Harper in "Holby City" is still alive off-screen in Australia despite Laura Sadler's death from a balcony fall while high on cocaine. 

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On 11/10/2018 at 1:10 PM, Bastet said:

This thread is tagged for spoilers already, so we can speculate based on spoilers in here without tagging them.

I'm very disappointed about the pregnancy, even though it was my initial guess; if she has a baby, she's going to be stuck for the rest of her life.  This was her window to turn things around, and instead she's going to fall right into the usual trap.  Not all that unusual, but still disappointing, and these people's lives have already been realistically disappointing enough.

 

On 11/10/2018 at 1:15 PM, peacheslatour said:

Maybe she'll give it to Sarah Chalke.

 

On 11/10/2018 at 11:51 PM, Bastet said:

Well, good luck to her with that, but the odds are against her, and this is a shitty thing to do to a character who has - despite a lot of sex, with a lot of different people - always made sure this didn't happen (much to Jackie's surprise, heh).  I'm not interested in "every baby is a blessing" bullshit. 

This may not be a disaster, but it's not a good thing for her.  And I'd like to see Becky finally have something good - she got used as a third adult in the family practically since she could walk, half "stupidity"/half "well, dumb, but it may work freaked-out plan" opted to relocate for her husband's job in order to complete her education in time, saw that fall apart, made another bad decision on how to proceed, wound up a widow, and just coasted by for years before seeking out ways to establish herself.

 

On 11/11/2018 at 12:26 AM, jsbt said:

I don't see it as punishing Becky either (something I feel very sensitive to after the way the original show handled her from the recast to the finale). I think it's just a very ballsy story to tell with an adrift alcoholic approaching middle age, and I like the idea.

I don't see why Becky can't get her life on track and have this baby (or give it up, or abort, if she so chooses). But it's been clear that she hasn't been that overachiever teen since... well, since she and Mark first moved back home. Based on this season and the last she's clearly been the aging party girl for a number of years to drown her sorrows, and I think that arc of her life is sad but very familiar and realistic. I do think wherever it goes next is meant to be a positive, and not just because she's knocked up.

 

On 11/11/2018 at 5:22 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'm not Bastet but I'll tell you why I think it could screw up her life. She's broke, she has no education and no skills. She has a job where she's on her feet all day and she's no spring chicken. The cost of living may be low in Lanford but it's not free. She has a drinking problem that she may or may not be able to recover from. I don't know how  long she's been pregnant but she has been drinking heavily enough so far that the baby may have special needs. I'd say her life was screwed up to begin with and having a kid is going to make her life so much harder. YMMV.

 

On 11/11/2018 at 5:45 PM, Bastet said:

Because her life isn't that great to begin with, so she's not happy with it, wants to change it, but isn't quite sure how, and this is going to further limit her options for the future; she's been stuck in place all these years, and this is something that will up her chances of staying that way.  She is only able to set aside a little money as it is, so it's going to be difficult to support a child on her salary - especially when the other parent is a busboy with even more limited prospects for a measurably better job in the near future - and having a child will significantly reduce her odds of getting the kind of education or training that would give her a job with better income, stable hours, decent benefits, and the sense of accomplishment she feels she's been missing.  Having kids in this country has an economic impact on women - across education and experience levels and profession - that it doesn't have on men (in fact, while women with children earn less than those without, fathers earn more than their child-free counterparts).  The odds are already stacked against her in life given her socioeconomic status and limited education, and this will be one more thing. 

I just feel sorry for her that it's going to get even harder for her right as she's beginning to try to improve her life.  Like I said, it doesn't have to be a disaster - only time will tell - and if she's decided she truly does want to be a parent, then at least she gets that out of it, but it's certainly not an "Oh, how nice for Becky, she's pregnant!" scenario.

 

On 11/12/2018 at 8:39 PM, FairyDusted said:

This is a hard call for me. I guessed who when the story started but my issue is with ANY more kids by anyone. We have plenty on the canvas already who are underused. DJ and family could do well fleshing out their story. Hell we have 2 kids missing now. If I want to see a birth and never see the growth of plot or character I'll keep up with Y&R or any other soap. Plus we have very limited episodes.

The other side of me sees Jackie in Becky as she is trying to be seen like Darlene and Roseanne. She wants what she thinks they have. 

Glenn Quinn....Damn I loved that kid. He slipped out of character every once in a while and you could hear his accent.

All this to say, I guess it doesn't matter as much to me. We don't know how long this show will last. It's no 20 year SVU. I'll take this season though. I've been waiting way too long for this damn thing to  come down the pike. 

If they don't come back maybe we can get reunion shows like they did with Facts of Life.  

I am horribly dissapointed in this news. I have really enjoyed the Becky character in the reboot and wanted to see her evolve. I do not believe this pregnancy is a punishment for promiscuous behavior. I think it is more along the lines of “a female is not a real woman until she gives birth”. I was very excited to see a single child free woman turn her life around and make something of herself. I am sure we will get a bullshit storyline about how motherhood transforms her into a responsible person. I have worked with addicts and alcoholics and that is not how that works. Even the ones who stop using during pregnancy often relapse under the pressures of raising a baby. 

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6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I was very excited to see a single child free woman turn her life around and make something of herself. I am sure we will get a bullshit storyline about how motherhood transforms her into a responsible person.

Yep, because heaven forbid Becky alone be worthy of changing for; no, she'll have to do it for her child.

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Eh, we already heard last season that Becky wanted kids with Mark and part of the reason she was so unhappy was because it never happened, so I look at this more as one of Becky’s dreams coming true.

 

Will it be easy for her? No. But I’m okay with it if it means she finally gets something she’s wanted and thought she’d never get.

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20 hours ago, katie9918 said:

Eh, we already heard last season that Becky wanted kids with Mark and part of the reason she was so unhappy was because it never happened, so I look at this more as one of Becky’s dreams coming true.

 

Will it be easy for her? No. But I’m okay with it if it means she finally gets something she’s wanted and thought she’d never get.

Wanting kids when you are totally unprepared to raise them is not a dream come true, but a horribly selfish self-serving decision. I raise two small kids and I love them dearly, but even with being ready for them it is a stressful 24/7 demanding job. I also work with addicts and alcoholics and stress to them that they have to get their life in order before they can consider having children. If they have children in the middle of the disease and alcoholism is a disease, then they will ruin two lives instead of one. I am afraid the show will imply that having a child "will cure Becky" of her problems and that is a very dangerous thing to imply. This is a woman who can not get over her husband's death even a decade later and her only means of financial independence was to scam another woman into thinking she could be surrogate by pretending she was 10 years younger than she was.

22 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yep, because heaven forbid Becky alone be worthy of changing for; no, she'll have to do it for her child.

Amen to this.

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If Becky were my daughter or sister or friend, I would tell her that a baby is never a cure for whatever problems you have in your life. But this isn't a planned pregnancy and she's been told that she probably would never be able to have kids. That's starting in a different place story-wise, especially on a sitcom.

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6 hours ago, tessaray said:

If Becky were my daughter or sister or friend, I would tell her that a baby is never a cure for whatever problems you have in your life. But this isn't a planned pregnancy and she's been told that she probably would never be able to have kids. That's starting in a different place story-wise, especially on a sitcom.

I can also see the writers giving her this story as a way of closing out her arc. It's worth remembering that when these stories were written the show was far from a sure bet. All the stories are designed to provide closure. 

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On 11/14/2018 at 1:29 PM, Bastet said:

Yep, because heaven forbid Becky alone be worthy of changing for; no, she'll have to do it for her child.

We have already seen Becky making an effort to change, with the agreement to not drink while she was on the job with Dan.  It's not much but at least it's something. 

And this is still The Conners.  I can't imagine they will completely sugarcoat an older, single woman having a baby with no money, a crappy job, etc.  

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Becky also said last season she always wanted a child. At the end of the original show (which has been retconned, but still) she and Mark were expecting a child; we can now assume Becky either miscarried that baby or that event was entirely erased. Either way the background for her wanting a baby is there, not invented out of whole cloth.

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It looks like the President of ABC who made the hasty decision to fire Roseanne and cost millions of dollars in lost revenues has resigned. She will be replaced by the former head of the Christian Broadcasting Network. Perhaps this signals a change in direction. I seriously doubt it but you never know.

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23 minutes ago, langford peel said:

It looks like the President of ABC who made the hasty decision to fire Roseanne and cost millions of dollars in lost revenues has resigned. She will be replaced by the former head of the Christian Broadcasting Network. Perhaps this signals a change in direction. I seriously doubt it but you never know.

Her “hasty decision” was supported by the top executives at Disney. She worked at ABC for almost 15 years, I believe, so I’m not surprised she’s stepping down. Plus, there have been lots of management changes in the Fox transition and there will be many more to come. 

Her replacement worked at ABC’s Freeform channel for several years so no, I do not think there will be a change in direction.

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Sources close to the situation emphasized that the decision to depart ABC was entirely Dungey’s. She is known to have had a close relationship with Disney chairman-CEO Bob Iger who is said to have assured her that she would have a place at ABC or Disney in the post-Fox realignment. Dungey has expressed a desire to be closer to the production process, having come up at ABC through the studio side.

What Dungey does next is, for now, a question. She is a popular executive with admired programming taste and deep talent relationships — particularly with Shonda Rhimes, (Grey's Anatomy) whose Netflix development slate is bigger than some cable channels’, and could benefit from a seasoned executive hand working with the producer.

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2 hours ago, langford peel said:

It looks like the President of ABC who made the hasty decision to fire Roseanne and cost millions of dollars in lost revenues has resigned. She will be replaced by the former head of the Christian Broadcasting Network. Perhaps this signals a change in direction. I seriously doubt it but you never know.

Do you mean a change in direction for The Conners?  There's no coming back for Barr that wouldn't be profoundly stupid (it was all a dream....). I guess the only direction they could go that would satisfy Roseanne Barr fans would be to can the show -  If it's doing well in the ratings though I can't see that happening.

Edited by BlossomCulp.
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The Conners finished in third place in its time slot again last week. The contracts are up. It seems unlikely that it will be renewed since the new president is not invested in it.

Unless of course Goodman and Metcalf take a major pay cut. If they are as concerned with keeping the jobs for the cast and crew as Roseanne was they can take a cut from the estimated $375,000 per episode that they are getting now.

Let’s see what happens.

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This Is Us and The Conners both hit their lowest adults 18-49 ratings ever on Tuesday, Nov. 13 — but were also the two top scripted shows of the night.   The Conners fell 0.3 from its last outing to a season-low 1.5 in the 18-49 demo. (snip)  NCIS tied its season high of 1.4 for CBS, and FBI ticked up to 1.1 after four straight weeks at 1.0. NCIS: New Orleans was steady with a 0.9.  

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/conners-is-us-tv-ratings-tuesday-nov-13-2018-1161114

So The Conners season low was still better than NCIS's season high.

I know the naysayers are eager to see this show cancelled but it's not doing as badly as they'd like it to be.  Indeed, let's see what happens.

Edited by BlossomCulp.
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1 hour ago, langford peel said:

It seems unlikely that it will be renewed since the new president is not invested in it.

There's no evidence to support any of this sentence.

I know you dislike the show, but the fact is its numbers are considered solid for a network sitcom and it has garnered a ton of positive press. Unless the cast wants to rest it it is likely to be renewed.

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I'm kind of surprised it's not doing worse. I wonder how many people claiming they were boycotting the show went ahead and watched it anyway.

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6 hours ago, langford peel said:

It looks like the President of ABC who made the hasty decision to fire Roseanne and cost millions of dollars in lost revenues has resigned. She will be replaced by the former head of the Christian Broadcasting Network. Perhaps this signals a change in direction. I seriously doubt it but you never know.

Shouldn't these concerns be brought to this forum?

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