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S02.E10: The Passenger

20 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Teddy and Akecheta appear to be gone (maybe they will become pals in the Valley Beyond)


They want to keep playing Cowboys and Indians.

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9 hours ago, paigow said:

DolorMan: Homecoming

Reservoir Dols

Dol Hard 2: Dol Harder

Magic Dolores: XXL

Finding Dolores

Dolores 2049

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On 6/26/2018 at 5:00 PM, Luka1997 said:

Important question that has been bothering me ever since I saw the ep:

 

Should we call the new Dolores "Dolores 2: Dolores's revenge" or "Dolores 2.0, now with extra murder?" 😀

doslores?

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2 minutes ago, djsunyc said:

doslores?

Good one. 

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In 'The Passenger,' Westworld finishes its second season in dramatic fashion, blowing everything up and investigating a number of robot-based afterlife options. Find out what lies beyond this vale of tears in our latest EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

View the full article

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01000100011011110110110001101111011100100110010101110011: Back to the Beginning

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This paragraph from the epic old school recap truly is epic:

Quote

Okay. Let's do a quick check-in. Right now, we're watching two robots (one of which is a purposely imperfect recreation of a human) in a virtual world watching a recording of a robot that was a poor copy of a human, running around a false version of a park that is itself a vaguely inaccurate copy of what people think the Old West was sort of like. That seems like a lot of layers between the action we're seeing and anything real. And that's before you count things like "It's actually a fictional television show" and "Really, you're reading a recap of it."

Oh also, do you think there will be some kind of distinction between purely artificial hosts and ones that are recreated humans? Maybe there can be a robot class war.

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On 6/25/2018 at 11:45 PM, DakotaLavender said:

What's with those "brain balls?" I think it was the writers' brains because they lost it. Stubbs was a host. Gee the writers really shocked me with that twist. Not. The cradle, the forge.... ffs.

I think that was a retcon. Otherwise, they would just have cut the darn things out when a host went glitchy and had to be retired and either recycled or destroyed the rest, not having all the old models just standing there. Remember when Clementine was decomissioned and they put a drill up her nose?  Remember how they decided to put everything inside Abernathy and put him on the train  back to China?

I think the pearls were created sometime after season one was aired.

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On 6/25/2018 at 1:21 AM, Law Mom said:

People are merely 10,247 lines of code. No free will, just programming. Sounds like my ex, haha.

They observe 4 million guests who come to the park for a week or two, record everything they do while their hats are on, and somehow are able to predict every choice they would make in every environment? Nah. This doesn’t qualify as in vivo testing. They don’t see people at work, interacting with friends and family, etc. I mean, if what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, you can’t use what they do in Vegas to define them outside of Vegas, if that makes sense.

 

They also don't get every type of person, just a sampling from people rich enough to go to the Westworld park and of those, only the ones inclined to do something immersive like the park.

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40 minutes ago, terrymct said:

 

They also don't get every type of person, just a sampling from people rich enough to go to the Westworld park and of those, only the ones inclined to do something immersive like the park.

Yep.  The Forge & Dolores made a judgement (GUILTY!) based on less than 10% of human population.

Either that or the writers conveniently retconed this and the Forge actually contained a copy of "everyone"

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I am really happy that Ford took  Akecheta's desire to go back to the "real world" (not the one outside the park) but the world where his people were living peacefully and created Happy Valley for him and his people.  That world could only be created in a digital realm.

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On 6/25/2018 at 11:41 AM, sadie said:

I also forgot to say. The purse at the end, the freaking purse. After living basically through Armageddon, bloody shoot outs, death, destruction, double crosses, crosssing over the desert and back how in the world did she have her convenient black standard issue office time purse ready to go? It literally jarred me right out of the scene. Ugh.

I kept thinking, “when did she have time to find her Coach bag?”  I would expect more of a futuristic type of messenger back or something of a Wild West postal bag, but granny’s pocketbook?

Future memory storage always has me at a loss too.  Star Wars had a huge disc, Westworld has trackballs.  With so much being done using the force or transmitting telepathically, you’d think technology would be further along.

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Rewatching this today, I can only wonder how much in any reality that the numerous bodies strewn around the park must stink and should bloat and turn black with decomposition.

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On 6/29/2018 at 10:38 AM, terrymct said:

They also don't get every type of person, just a sampling from people rich enough to go to the Westworld park and of those, only the ones inclined to do something immersive like the park.

So, only the rich display this kind of behavior?

Personally, I think they have the whole of humanity sized up pretty well and their perspective pretty much alligns with my view of the human condition.  But what they have not yet realized is that they were created in humanity’s image.  The minute they get power, they abuse, rape and pillage. And power is not necessarily money. Power is control over a child, over an animal, anything that is innocent whether you’re rich or dirt poor.

I think it’s a fascinating thread that they are exploring. I just wish they would do it in a way that you could actually appreciate that exploration.

Edited by Kid.
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I'm too dumb to watch this show.  Not that all the hosts aren't nude all the time, I'm not sure I'll be back for season 3...

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8 hours ago, For Cereals said:

I kept thinking, “when did she have time to find her Coach bag?”  

One of the 3D printer options is designer knockoff bags....

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On 6/25/2018 at 6:03 AM, Dame sans merci said:

Maybe the Host who’s in charge of quality assurance? And by the way, that was totally meant to be subtle [laughs].

Why do I suddenly dislike Lisa Joy? I don't mind that Stubbs is a host necessarily. I guess he was never around Clementine to be corrupted. Or Maeve. 

But when I think of the power of Bernard's reveal last season I find myself not caring. Also, what did Stubbs accomplish this season? Why did he matter? Much like Elsie, he didn't matter.

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22 hours ago, greyhorse said:

I'm too dumb to watch this show.

Apparently I am, too.  IIT and DePaul University will be so disappointed.

"I don't want to play cowboys and Indians any more."  That's going to be a problem for me, because I do.  I loved this show in Season 1 and I remained interested in Season 2 although, like Teddy, I was dismayed by the carnage. There's a reason that the first park is Westworld.  People the world over are fascinated by the American West of the late 19th century, even if much of it is myth.  I don't want to watch a show that takes place in some future "real" world where the main discussion is how awful human beings are and whether we have free will or not and the showrunner delights in confusing the audience by playing with the timeline for no good reason.  I would have much preferred a second season where the hosts didn't go beserk in S1E10 and we see more episodes like "Kiksuya" where we see host backstories and more and more hosts gradually wake up, but are still in their loops.  You know that a reckoning is coming, but you're not sure when.  A season that had, you know, some tension.  Well, that ship has sailed, I guess.

Now let me get a few miscellaneous things off my chest:

  • I HATE the character of Bernard.  Maybe not more than I hated Charlotte Hale, but it's damn close. He's so fucking passive. Jeffery Wright does nothing for me as an actor.  And no one wears glasses like that perched on the end of your nose and looking over the top of them to see anything.  I wore glasses most of my life and I know what that feels like and it's very uncomfortable.  If they're meant to be readers, then yes, while you're reading, not all the time.  Get some fucking bifocals, Bernard!
  • I guess all the little things we paid attention to, like when and where did Bernard change his clothes, meant nothing in the end.  Just a continuity error? And what the heck was that damn thing wrapped up in burlap that Sylvester was carrying around for like, 6 episodes?  I think in this last episode it suddenly disappeared without any explanation.  I suppose it could have been Armistice's weapons, but you never really find out.  Similarly, what was the answer to boy-Ford's riddle, "The game begins where you end and ends where you began"?  I spent a lot of time wondering about these things for the last 2 1/2 months and there was no answer, no payoff.  I was very deflated by the unanswered questions the show posed.
  • Why was every damn human they rescued wearing evening clothes?  There were a hundred or so people at the banquet, everyone else would have been in Western garb.  And did anyone notice the guy in the boat with Hale at the end who is still dressed in a pristine tuxedo, white shirt and bow tie? Where the hell was he for the previous 2 weeks?
  • Why did they bother to bring back Elsie if she was just going to get killed in passing by Charlotte?  I hated that.  I hated that they gave Sizemore a decent redemption arc only to kill him off needlessly.  In fact, apparently many of my favorite characters are not just dead, but dead-dead, and not coming back. 

Nolan and Joy are going to have to do some serious back-stepping if they're going to have a Season 3 that I want to watch. 

Edited by Quilt Fairy.
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After reading several recaps and this board I understand the ep but I think I am out. At first I wanted Maeve back but honestly, she has completed her journey. Bringing her back would be like bringing Buffy back from heaven. She did her work. Let her be. 

It is how these producers wish to tell this story I find deeply frustrating. I loved BSG and I know Altered Carbon isn't quite as ambitious, but sometimes simpler is better. The best eps this season were the most streamlined and direct, so the producers can do it. They just don't want to. A pity for me because I do love well funded SF, but not worth another 10 hours.

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

And no one wears glasses like that perched on the end of your nose and looking over the top of them to see anything.  I wore

Forgive me, but my coworker does and it drives me batty too. But it does happen in the real world. Jeffrey Wright seems to love his prop glasses. I could be wrong but he seems to have a hard time looking directly at the camera. It is a tic of his. It has happened in other movies. Maybe the glasses help him. But I do feel you.

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On 6/30/2018 at 5:43 PM, Kid said:

So, only the rich display this kind of behavior?

Personally, I think they have the whole of humanity sized up pretty well and their perspective pretty much alligns with my view of the human condition.  But what they have not yet realized is that they were created in humanity’s image.  The minute they get power, they abuse, rape and pillage. And power is not necessarily money. Power is control over a child, over an animal, anything that is innocent whether you’re rich or dirt poor.

I think it’s a fascinating thread that they are exploring. I just wish they would do it in a way that you could actually appreciate that exploration.

If you look through a webpage like Rich Kids of Instagram, you get the idea that nurture can have as big of a role as nature.   Not everyone abuses power as soon as they get it.  Nelson Mandella was certainly different than many other new leaders on that continent.  George Washington stood out, in addition to his military and leadership skills, because he refused to become a de facto king.   There are other large and small examples.  

By selecting for a subpopulation of a distinct population of humans rather than a cross section of all populations, they end up with a biased picture.    I was also bothered by their numbers.  Four million people scanned over thirty years.  I wish they hadn't been so specific on how many personality scans they had.   That's 133,333 people scanned in parks per year.  2,564 people per week.   When we saw the train carrying visitors into West World, it only appeared to have maybe a dozen guests on board.  Are there more than 200 different parks?   By being specific about 4 million scanned personalities, they made me start doing the math in my head and threw me out of the story.   I don't know how they got that many scans in thirty years.

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25 minutes ago, terrymct said:

2,564 people per week.

I think they have a total of 5 parks.  There was an interview in EW with the creators where they mentioned that there are at least two parks we haven't seen yet. so, that's 513 people per park, per week (or 73 people per park, per day).

25 minutes ago, terrymct said:

When we saw the train carrying visitors into West World, it only appeared to have maybe a dozen guests on board. 

We saw one wagon of one train.  Presumably the train has more wagons.  Also, there's nothing to indicate that the train makes only one trip per day per park.  When Maeve was about to board the modern train leaving the park, it looked like a fairly big train that could carry at least 200 people, so, it doesn't appear so far fetched to me.

Edited by WearyTraveler.
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55 minutes ago, terrymct said:

If you look through a webpage like Rich Kids of Instagram, you get the idea that nurture can have as big of a role as nature.   Not everyone abuses power as soon as they get it.  Nelson Mandella was certainly different than many other new leaders on that continent.  George Washington stood out, in addition to his military and leadership skills, because he refused to become a de facto king.   There are other large and small examples.  

By selecting for a subpopulation of a distinct population of humans rather than a cross section of all populations, they end up with a biased picture.    I was also bothered by their numbers.  Four million people scanned over thirty years.  I wish they hadn't been so specific on how many personality scans they had.   That's 133,333 people scanned in parks per year.  2,564 people per week.   When we saw the train carrying visitors into West World, it only appeared to have maybe a dozen guests on board.  Are there more than 200 different parks?   By being specific about 4 million scanned personalities, they made me start doing the math in my head and threw me out of the story.   I don't know how they got that many scans in thirty years.

We discover in this episode that they've also been scanning and monitoring employees too, so i'm assuming that number included them. Maybe...? Because yes, otherwise it seems a ridiculously huge number.

Edited by Dame sans merci.
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2 hours ago, Dame sans merci said:

We discover in this episode that they've also been scanning and monitoring employees too, so i'm assuming that number included them. Maybe...? Because yes, otherwise it seems a ridiculously huge number.

I wonder how many visitors have bought souvenir hats for themselves or family members?

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2 hours ago, dgpolo said:

I wonder how many visitors have bought souvenir hats for themselves or family members?

Uuuh! Now, that's an interesting notion! I don't think the show mentioned any souvenir shops, or that the writers had that in mind when they wrote the 4 million people line, but that would certainly have been the smart move for Delos Corp. considering what their final objective was.

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On 7/1/2018 at 4:24 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

I don't want to watch a show that takes place in some future "real" world where the main discussion is how awful human beings are and whether we have free will or not and the showrunner delights in confusing the audience by playing with the timeline for no good reason.  I would have much preferred a second season where the hosts didn't go beserk in S1E10 and we see more episodes like "Kiksuya" where we see host backstories and more and more hosts gradually wake up, but are still in their loops.  You know that a reckoning is coming, but you're not sure when.  A season that had, you know, some tension.  Well, that ship has sailed, I guess.

Thank you for that entire post but especially this portion of it. I, too, don't want to watch a show where Dolores and some version of Bernard have philosophical discussions about humanity. One of the problems of this season was the extent of monologuing...from Dolores, Ford, William. So much of the dialogue seemed like a big exposition dump.

I had no problem with seeing the start of the host revolt in S1E10 but it wasn't paced well. More of the host backstories and gradual awakenings would have been welcome. It was mostly a lot of death and destruction but - as stated above - without tension. It became obvious early on that all security and special ops forces would be killed. Frankly, I could have skipped the first nine episodes and just watched the finale without losing much of the plot.

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Ok, for starters: I think Halores was the perfect choice to be wandering around carrying people’s balls in her purse.

Now that that’s been said - and, by God, it NEEDED to be - on with the catch-up comments:

 

On 6/25/2018 at 1:42 AM, jeansheridan said:

I think that is the gist behind all that noise and bluster. I still don't get why Dolores bothered to recreate Bernard. She wants someone to check her? Why? Dolores is not a collaborative sort.

Personal entertainment, maybe?  I don’t think Dolores views Bernard as a serious adversary; she has too much of a messianic complex sort of thing going on for that.  Although Dolores appears to view Bernard with the sort of contempt reserved for an inferior, she might consider him capable enough to provide some relief from boredom - keep her challenged to a degree, and therefore sharper and less complacent.

So, great - Dolores brought Bernard along to catfish herself.

 

On 6/25/2018 at 9:03 AM, WatchrTina said:

You're asking the right questions.  My fan-wank is that Akecheta's wife has been in the background somewhere ever since the night of the party at the end of season 1 when ALL the decommissions 'bots showed up in the woods.  She hasn't been front-and-center like Clementine and she wasn't cannon fodder like so many of the the zombie-bots and so many of her tribe.  She's just been there in the background and joined the line of refugees when Aketcheta started leading them to the happy hunting grounds.  He didn't see her and she didn't recognize him because, zombie-bot.  But I'm going to fan-wank that when they go through that door and their bodies fall away their minds are healed and that's why she could finally recognize Aketcheta.  

In a similar vein, my thoughts on the subject ran along these lines:

  1. Like we saw done to Clementine, all of the decommissioned hosts had been brain-drilled before going into cold storage - i.e., their original “brain balls” (don’t giggle) were deliberately destroyed.
  2. ...which means before Dolores could reactivate the cold storage posse to become her own personal zombie horde, they ALL had to be refitted with new brain balls to support at least rudimentary function - the ability to locomote and follow basic instruction.  This accounts for the large number of “virgin balls” (okay, go ahead and giggle) previously mentioned.
  3. When virgin-ball-Kohana (Akecheta’s wife) passed through the VB portal, the Forge system recognized the host body as the “Kohana model”; finding nothing on the virgin ball to port over into the VB construct, however, it automatically restored on-the-fly from its last good Kohana backup - thereby restoring Kohana’s memories and personality, which was at least half-woke (and able to access previous-life memories of her relationship with Akecheta) prior to deactivation.

 

On 6/25/2018 at 9:03 AM, WatchrTina said:

I'm also going to fan-wank that Teddy's evil programming fell away too and he's back to his original self . . .

Maybe Dolores made her sociopath-creating changes to Teddy in his transient RAM storage, without committing them to permanent storage on disk/ball/whatever?  In which case his ball restoration to the VB construct would be that of Good Teddy.

 

On 6/25/2018 at 4:50 PM, SourK said:

What's up with them that not one but two of their employees can be robots the whole time and nobody knows? 

Delos’ human-or-host detectors didn’t appear to be any spectacular demonstrations of advanced tech; in truth, it appears they were little more than glorified C4 explosive detectors, displaying “ARMED” or “UNARMED”:

  • ARMED = C4-equipped = host (to blow out their spines as a last-ditch preventative measure).
  • UNARMED = not-C4-equipped = human.

The concept of a host being manufactured without the C4 failsafe being equipped doesn’t seem to have ever occurred to the Delos staff - by which I surmise the C4 installation is part of the standard assembly-line process, but not Ford’s DIY kits.

 

On 6/25/2018 at 8:42 PM, WatchrTina said:
  1. How does Dolores jam the MiB's gun with a flattened, spent bullet?  It would not fit into a chamber in the barrel.  That whole plot line makes NO sense.

Only because it’s complete and utter bullshit; no way that half-flattened round fits ANYWHERE in a pistol.  And even if you did pretend somewhere on the pistol it might conceivably fit (I’m guessing from the catastrophic blowback failure the writers are suggesting Dolores jammed the unflattened part of the round into the barrel-facing end of a loaded cylinder chamber?), the revolver isn’t going to function pop-pop-pop on rounds 1 through 5 and blow up on round 6.  For anything approaching normal function, the construction tolerances on any halfway-functional pistol would be too close for that chunk of flattened lead to rotate unimpeded with the cylinder.

 

On 6/25/2018 at 9:41 PM, Algernon said:

I am totally confused as to how Delores got herself into her new body. Wouldn't she need an outside person to help? After she printed her new body, how did she go about transferring her ball from Charlores' head to the new body? Can she do that to herself? Wouldn't Charlores' body collapse once the ball was taken out? Then what? I do not understand how that worked.

Or... Dolores has built at least one more host we haven’t seen yet which could effect the transfer.  :)

 

On 6/29/2018 at 10:38 AM, terrymct said:

They also don't get every type of person, just a sampling from people rich enough to go to the Westworld park and of those, only the ones inclined to do something immersive like the park.

So - a library of sociopaths?  ;>

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One last note:

Rest in peace, Clementine; of all the characters in this show to date, you were the one from whom I felt the most empathy and sympathy.  Inside or outside your story line, it didn’t matter; you were treated like a prostitute by human and host alike - a thing to be exploited in the fulfillment of selfish concerns, then discarded like trash when you ceased to be useful.  Hopefully you are finally at a place beyond their reach...

...although I wouldn’t count on it.

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On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:49 PM, Nashville said:

Only because it’s complete and utter bullshit; no way that half-flattened round fits ANYWHERE in a pistol.  And even if you did pretend somewhere on the pistol it might conceivably fit (I’m guessing from the catastrophic blowback failure the writers are suggesting Dolores jammed the unflattened part of the round into the barrel-facing end of a loaded cylinder chamber?), the revolver isn’t going to function pop-pop-pop on rounds 1 through 5 and blow up on round 6.  For anything approaching normal function, the construction tolerances on any halfway-functional pistol would be too close for that chunk of flattened lead to rotate unimpeded with the cylinder.

It's not utter bullshit. The MIB has a special dual barreled weapon.  There is a second shotgun barrel underneath the pistol barrel.  Dolores put the flattened round in the shotgun barrel, guaranteeing the misfire only if he tried to shoot her with that barrel.  Young William apparently picked it up sometime during his first visit to the park, I'm not sure where but perhaps when they met the Confederadoes.   It's explained in all it's technical glory here.

Edited by Quilt Fairy.
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1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

It's not utter bullshit. The MIB has a special dual barreled weapon.  There is a second shotgun barrel underneath the pistol barrel.  Dolores put the flattened round in the shotgun barrel, guaranteeing the misfire only if he tried to shoot her with that barrel.  Young William apparently picked it up sometime during his first visit to the park, I'm not sure where but perhaps when they met the Confederadoes.   It's explained in all it's technical glory here.

The dimensions don't work.  Check out these images, in which we're lucky enough to have a constant frame of reference through all of them - Dolores' thumb:

IMG_0416.JPG.892ba0484fb81533001bd86346b6e4ef.JPG

IMG_0417.JPG.a4479e59030da0b3f9e5dd6945679d3e.JPG

IMG_0418.JPG.4d6d8c6ccd2f19525b25f1a19ece8260.JPG

 

It looks pretty clearcut to me: Dolores' thumb is bigger than the pistol's central shotgun barrel, and the flattened round is substantially bigger that Dolores' thumb.  No way that chunk of lead fits into that barrel.  

In reality, that is - which may or may not have anything to do with whether it'll work in Hollywood.  :)

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12 hours ago, Nashville said:

It looks pretty clearcut to me: Dolores' thumb is bigger than the pistol's central shotgun barrel, and the flattened round is substantially bigger that Dolores' thumb.  No way that chunk of lead fits into that barrel.  

I respectfully disagree. In that second screen cap, if Dolores rotates the spent shell 90 degrees (about the same angle as the first screen cap), it doesn't look to me that it would be any wider than her thumb. In the third screen cap it seems clear to me that she could indeed fit her thumb in the barrel (almost up to the knuckle, certainly past the nail) which makes sense since the bore should be just over half an inch in diameter. Add to this the fact that a flattened piece of lead is going to be pretty malleable, and she could fit it in flat ways on, like a coin in a slot, bending the outer edges a little if necessary. This would create a good snug fit, and she could even angle it a bit to block more of the barrel, which wouldn't have to be completely blocked to cause a misfire.

I hereby declare this myth plausible.

Edited by MJ Frog. Reason: more words.
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I can't argue the mechanics or even the feasibility of it.  This is just the explanation the show's writers give for Dolores being able to create an intentional misfire while the rest of the weapon works perfectly.   

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Finally watched the finale, still processing. Some initial thoughts-

- I know the creators have toyed with Stubbs' core programming speech serving the dual purpose of alerting us he's a host and signaling to Halores that he's got her back but I'd prefer that it was Stubbs alerting Halores he had her back in a clumsy way that he thought was smart/coy. Having said that it would make total sense that Ford did have a host as QA. It also makes sense that Stubb's always treated the hosts with a healthy respect of definitely arming himself to the hilt when interacting with them, never underestimating them, and not treating them as objects or taking pleasure in being overly aggressive or exploiting them. Hell, even Elsie kissed Clementine when no one was looking.

-Speaking of Elsie, sad she didn't escape with Stubbs. Also wish we'd have gotten some reaction from him about her death.

-Nice that Teddy lived in the great beyond but he has no one to enjoy all the splendor with!. I suppose he could hook up with the Maeve substitute ( always shipped Teddy/Maeve a wee bit). Otherwise it's a waste of a perfectly good bubble butt. I do agree that just like when we thought we were done with Ford in S1, Teddy and Ake could be brought back if the story warranted. If The Sublime were being threatened somehow, Bernard and/or Dolores could be moved to recruit them/warn them and those two would be the first to step up to protect their people from a threat. It'd be damn interesting to see how Teddy evolves in The Sublime.

-Sizemore's death was pointless as he didn't need to die to be redeemed. Serving as a distraction for them long enough to get away is all that was needed. I'll miss the guy. 

-Whoever pointed out that Bernard is Xavier to Dolores's Magneto was spot on. Just as Magneto can't just kill Charles, Dolores can't/won't put down not only one of the last remaining hosts, but one who has the capability of being a pivotal figure in winning her war. Their methods are disparate but their goal the same- hosts surviving. S3 of them battling, briefly allying, and betraying one another in the real world could be interesting. 

-Not sure why I enjoy Logan so much or why I found it interesting that for Delos it was walking away from his son when he begged for help that was his all roads lead here moment. I guess it was because he seemed like such a bastard but deep down he did love Logan and his missed opportunity to possibly save him was a landmark moment for him.

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13 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

-Nice that Teddy lived in the great beyond but he has no one to enjoy all the splendor with!. I suppose he could hook up with the Maeve substitute ( always shipped Teddy/Maeve a wee bit). Otherwise it's a waste of a perfectly good bubble butt. I do agree that just like when we thought we were done with Ford in S1, Teddy and Ake could be brought back if the story warranted. If The Sublime were being threatened somehow, Bernard and/or Dolores could be moved to recruit them/warn them and those two would be the first to step up to protect their people from a threat. It'd be damn interesting to see how Teddy evolves in The Sublime.

Teddy's host body is still around, as is Ake's, and there is a plan to reprogram and reuse the existing hosts to reopen the park.  So we aren't necessarily saying goodbye to James Marsden and Zahn McClarnon.  Assuming that Westworld actually goes back to Westworld.

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22 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I can't argue the mechanics or even the feasibility of it.  This is just the explanation the show's writers give for Dolores being able to create an intentional misfire while the rest of the weapon works perfectly.   

In any case, it boils down to us discussing how well a Hollywood scenario might apply in reality - and as I alluded to before, Hollywood doesn’t necessarily operate within the constraints of reality.  I was simply stating my opinion, which was that it was unrealistic as shit - but YMMV.  :)

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On 7/8/2018 at 12:38 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

Teddy's host body is still around, as is Ake's, and there is a plan to reprogram and reuse the existing hosts to reopen the park....  

Who is coming back?? Dolores is going to kill every previous visitor....except all those killed at dinner....

Edited by paigow.
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1 hour ago, paigow said:

Who is coming back?? Dolores is going to kill every previous visitor....except all those killed at dinner....

Probably their heirs, then.  ;)

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On 7/7/2018 at 11:20 PM, TobinAlbers said:

- I know the creators have toyed with Stubbs' core programming speech serving the dual purpose of alerting us he's a host and signaling to Halores that he's got her back but I'd prefer that it was Stubbs alerting Halores he had her back in a clumsy way that he thought was smart/coy. Having said that it would make total sense that Ford did have a host as QA. It also makes sense that Stubb's always treated the hosts with a healthy respect of definitely arming himself to the hilt when interacting with them, never underestimating them, and not treating them as objects or taking pleasure in being overly aggressive or exploiting them. Hell, even Elsie kissed Clementine when no one was looking.

One last comment for this episode / season:

It was completely feasible that Ford created 2 bots to oversaw his kingdom.  To implement his masterplan he needed trusted allies in security (Stubbs) and bots programming (Bernard).  What could be more obedient and trusted than a pair of bots??  Plus bots do not age or get burned out over time.

Ford also kept his human subordinates/counterparts at arms length.  He was very dismissive to Seizemore and outright threatened Theresa (QA) in season 1.  OTOH, he treated Bernard like a favorite son, although admittedly I could not remember how he treated Stubbs.

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So is Daniel Jackson going to help with their ascension? 

Random thoughts - I didn't find the multiple timelines confusing at all. I just wondered what the purpose of them was. I didn't think they added anything to the season. There was no 'ah ha!' moment for me.

Despite the tendency of these show runners to make their viewers chase complicated rabbits until they realise they're running after nothing, I feel like this is their most cohesive work. That doesn't mean that season 3 won't lose the plot completely, but for now this is still a quality piece of work.

One strange thing: I'm weirdly emotionally attached to Asian techn so every time I realise he's still alive I'm relieved. And he managed to show his grief at Maeve's death in his brief final scene. 

Edited by AudienceofOne.
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I agree that I think the biggest question is: how long was the MiB in the forge. It's really not well explained, to me it looks like a plothole.

 

Also love the Asian technician, I almost believe they keep him alive for a reason. What if he plays some sort of insane roll in the future?

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1 hour ago, Justin Maribito said:

I agree that I think the biggest question is: how long was the MiB in the forge. It's really not well explained, to me it looks like a plothole.

How long?  

Or... how many times?

Or... how many iterations?

 ;)

Edited by Nashville. Reason: Formatting
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Quote

How long?  

Or... how many times?

Or... how many iterations?

 ;)

What is anything anyway?

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