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S09.E22: Split Decision 2018.05.15

5 hours ago, mortonsalt said:

 

Yes, I know someone brought it up last week, but I wouldn't have minded if this season was similar to other seasons in that it could have just continued being a slice of life look at an American family. However, since they set up things from last year and built upon it earlier in the season that looked like they were giving closure at least to the kids' storylines since I didn't expect Mike and Frankie's lives to change that much after this season is over, I'm disappointed that they really give them closure. 

I mean it's nice that Axl has finally found a good job and is moving out of his childhood bedroom, but it seems so last minute. I didn't ever care about him and Lexie as a couple, but it seemed like they were setting them up to be endgame at least early on until she disappeared for most of the second half of the season. Now they seem up in the air which is fine, I don't think that the kids have to all be paired off, but if they do breakup or decide to have a long distance relationship in the last episode, it could have had a lot more emotional impact, imo, if they didn't have Lexie off-screen most of the time. Or if they didn't want to make it that serious, I wish the time devoted to them could have been spent on Axl working on getting out of his parent's house especially after he saw how well Hutch was doing.

Likewise with Sue and Sean, I don't even care about it anymore, so I'd rather have had Sue be interested in her school and life beyond school. Or after the Christmas episode, have Sue and Sean finally get together, so we can root for them as an audience instead of being indifferent to them or actively disliking them. I'm just beyond disappointed that Sue was acting the way she was this episode over Sean when they're not even in a relationship, and he's only going to be gone for the summer. She could have told him at any time how she felt before this, and even if she was scared to, the writers went overboard with how miserable Sue was going to be when it was only for a summer. I agree with other posters that it would have been better if Sue had some kind of internship. It's not like she couldn't pine over Sean and also do an internship, but for some reason this season, it seems like the writers thought that it had to be love or career for the Heck kids and not both. 

I couldn't agree more with your post.  I never even liked Sue and Sean as a couple because they seem to have anti-chemistry... but the way they dragged it all out so idiotically, is just so annoying that watching this show puts me in a bad mood now.  And the snowglobe crap is so inane.  Who sneaks something like that into a person's luggage when they're heading to the airport?!!  Ugh.  Also, I hated Sue pining away for somebody she hasn't even dated, and being so overly dramatic about it when he's only going to be gone for the summer.  Why isn't she focused on getting her own internship instead wasting all her time and energy on her fantasy crush?

And you're so right about Axl and Lexie.  I've always liked Lexie and would have preferred to see that relationship develop over the season, especially if they are going to make them endgame.  It's so lame that they've ignored that whole storyline most of this season... to the point that I've lost interest and don't even care what happens with that relationship we've barely seen.

Then there was Brick and his chairs which was so ridiculous, I don't even know where to begin... so I guess I won't other than to say the whole thing was just so stupid.

And Frankie set a new record for terrible behavior in this episode.  I didn't find her funny at all, and I can usually handwave a lot of her nonsense.

Mike in the hardware store was the only good thing in this one, but it wasn't enough to make up for the fact that I never even laughed once during this episode.  I'm so glad this show is over next week since, as you can probably tell, I'm already over it.

Edited by AnnaRose.
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5 hours ago, rmontro said:

Aside from an early episode where Sue had a crush on Sean (which had Axl step in and save Sue from making a fool of herself), and several episodes where Sean's mother tried to get him to take her to dances because he didn't have a date, I don't think they really have much history.  Certainly I never saw any indication that those two were going to be the endgame.  And I'm happy I didn't, because it probably would have ruined a lot of the enjoyment I've had over the years watching The Middle. 

If all that's not a lot of history I don't know what is.  All that early stuff plus all the "near misses" of Sean surprising her by asking her to the "Chancellor's Ball" last season, and all the previous times he asked her to dances but she already had a date (but clearly would have preferred to go with him but didn't want to back out on the previous commitment).  Then the entire snowglobe comedy of errors, which occupied at least 2 episodes all by itself and more if you count how it kept turning up in other episodes but somehow never getting given first to Sue directly (which all by itself might have propelled their relationship forward), and then never getting back to Sean until this episode, despite Sue's intentions.  Then both of them almost telling the other how they feel, last season and this season, then the kiss, etc., etc., etc., (I mean, who kisses like that and then never follows up on it with anything?), plus Sue confessing her feelings about him to Brad and her mom.  This show beat the audience over the head with a possible S/S endgame more times than I can even count.  He was certainly featured more times than any other guy in the series in "near misses" with Sue making it absolutely maddening to the point that my husband yelled (excuse the language) "Shit or get off the pot already"!  I guess some people have tuned all that out or dismissed its significance because it's not what they want to happen.  To me it's been impossible to tune out.  I don't think a show would go to such incredible lengths with such sentimentality to set the audience up for a couple getting together if it was all for nothing.  In my experience "heartwarming" comedies like this just don't work that way.  And we still have one episode left to find out if they do finally get together. YMMV.

Edited by Yeah No.
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Is it possible Brick had Amazon giftcards?

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I think my main problem with the Sue/Sean shitshow is that the writers have pretty much given Sue two personalities.  Normal Sue is into her college courses, has a great roommate/friend, has matured while keeping her optimistic personality, handled Brad's coming out beautifully, and has seldom been without a boyfriend for several years, most of them decent guys.  Nutso Sue is still 14, shrilly overreacts to everything, acts like she's in a 1950s teen sitcom (with apologies to Dobie Gillis, whose teenagers were much more interesting), dresses and acts like a child, shows no signs of independence or maturity, and acts like the guy she's had an intermittent crush on is her one and only twue wuv, like someone who has never dated.  Since the Christmas episode, all we've seen is Nutso Sue.  What she needs is a shrink right now.  What happened to the Sue who turned down Darren because she wanted to experience life before settling down?  Nutso Sue should have just gotten married to someone like Darren who would take care of her, because she is NOT ready for an adult relationship.

Edited by EllenB. Reason: Had to add stuff. I'm way over thinking this.
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6 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

Is it possible Brick had Amazon giftcards?

What I thought was dumb was that Frankie told him to keep one chair and "donate" the rest.  Any mother in their income bracket would have told him to return the rest, not donate them!  On top of it being preposterous that he would be able to buy so many chairs by himself in the first place, there was no "back to reality" moment to save it from being completely ridiculous and unbelievable.

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15 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I always found it strange the Grandpa Big Mike was very handy and Mike is not at all.

Not me.  That's my dad and my brothers to a T.

 

13 hours ago, mortonsalt said:

 

Yes, I know someone brought it up last week, but I wouldn't have minded if this season was similar to other seasons in that it could have just continued being a slice of life look at an American family. However, since they set up things from last year and built upon it earlier in the season that looked like they were giving closure at least to the kids' storylines since I didn't expect Mike and Frankie's lives to change that much after this season is over, I'm disappointed that they really give them closure. 

As I said in the chat thread, I think the show runners set themselves up for a bad outcome here.  Either say "it's our last season, no biggie" or deliver on the promised closure.

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52 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

What I thought was dumb was that Frankie told him to keep one chair and "donate" the rest.  Any mother in their income bracket would have told him to return the rest, not donate them!  On top of it being preposterous that he would be able to buy so many chairs by himself in the first place, there was no "back to reality" moment to save it from being completely ridiculous and unbelievable.

Exactly, that's been The Middle's problem for years. Even last episode where Frankie told Nancy she doesn't pay her bills because she has always done it that way. Yet, their: power, water, heat, ect has been left on. These days in the Midwest, if you miss two bills, they turn things off in a second. Even if you paid and they just haven't received the payment. They also call you when you miss a payment or if your online payment got rejected because your paycheck didn't go in fast enough. It's just like Mike, one episode he is handy doing things, the next he can't screw in a light bulb. Even if Brick had Amazon Gift Cards. You can still return the chairs and get credit for a future purchase. Plus, they hammered us with the entire lawn chair for years, then took it away and then went: "We miss the lawn chair, let's act like it's Brick's best friend." Then he gets a recliner and he is like: "What lawn chair?" Brick is so easily distracted, even if you write something down for him to do. Soon as he sees something that gets his attention more, he basically goes: "Oh, this is cool, why do I feel like I have to pee? Oh that's right, I came in to use the bathroom, but look at these font styles... crap I wet myself." 

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7 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

Is it possible Brick had Amazon giftcards?

Or maybe he’s like my son and got into his dad’s account, clicked add to cart and proceed to checkout without ever having to enter a card. My darling did it to me. (“But mom, I thought I was paying with your points”). Grr. Kids. 

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18 minutes ago, jww said:

I thought the chairs didn't cost that much and that after paying to ship them back there would not be much of a savings; however on Amazon they are $58 apiece, that would be a lot of gift cards.

https://www.amazon.com/Lawn-Chair-USA-Aluminum-Webbed/dp/B00DC2QH6O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526563763&sr=8-1&keywords=lawn+chairs+web

Yes and if you total that it comes out to: $870 and that is with free shipping. Yeah, since they have never shown Frankie or Mike doing taxes. That is a mortgage payment right there. 

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18 minutes ago, readster said:

Yes and if you total that it comes out to: $870 and that is with free shipping. Yeah, since they have never shown Frankie or Mike doing taxes. That is a mortgage payment right there. 

Brick started off as quirky and socially awkward. Now I would be worried about his future. He’s so clueless about day to day tasks, I can’t imagine him living independently or having a job with any responsibilities or without close supervision. Now this is a reality many parents face with their maturing special needs children. But not something the show addresses. It’s just played for laughs and part of Brick’s oddness. 

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2 minutes ago, Ria said:

Brick started off as quirky and socially awkward. Now I would be worried about his future. He’s so clueless about day to day tasks, I can’t imagine him living independently or having a job with any responsibilities or without close supervision. Now this is a reality many parents face with their maturing special needs children. But not something the show addresses. It’s just played for laughs and part of Brick’s oddness. 

Right and the writers/producers said they never wanted to categorized Brick with a specific issue because they said then it becomes the main focus of the character. However, at this point you have to wonder, especially after the issue with his teacher a couple of months back when he was licking the car and she thought he was doing it out of spite. Or his: "You are going to love our pizza's." Last year because of everything with Axl and David Foley's character was: "Oh sorry, I should have let everyone know about your quirks, my bad." The teachers are all like: "If he has issues, why didn't you tell us." The writers go: "Oh, we can do that, or he is pigeonholed and we have to write that all the time." It's like with Frankie always saying: "I'm tired." Even if she just lifts her hands to eat potato chips. That doesn't sound lazy, comes across she has a thyroid or heart issues, because no one is that tired if they fart. She said one time two seasons ago: "I started yawning and I didn't want to go to work." I was like: "Umm... what? That isn't yawning that sounds like someone who has a medical problem." Then the writers just go: "But, she is lazy, look at Axl." No, you are writing these people with special needs or need to see a specialist and think it's funny and it isn't. Just like their financial issues, everyone brings it up, the entire Heck family knows they make bad financial decisions, but does anyone help them or they do anything about it? No it's: "But we always do it this way, why change?" When it's TPTB think it's funny and we don't agree or bow down to their story logic. 

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10 minutes ago, readster said:

Right and the writers/producers said they never wanted to categorized Brick with a specific issue because they said then it becomes the main focus of the character. However, at this point you have to wonder, especially after the issue with his teacher a couple of months back when he was licking the car and she thought he was doing it out of spite. Or his: "You are going to love our pizza's." Last year because of everything with Axl and David Foley's character was: "Oh sorry, I should have let everyone know about your quirks, my bad." The teachers are all like: "If he has issues, why didn't you tell us." The writers go: "Oh, we can do that, or he is pigeonholed and we have to write that all the time." It's like with Frankie always saying: "I'm tired." Even if she just lifts her hands to eat potato chips. That doesn't sound lazy, comes across she has a thyroid or heart issues, because no one is that tired if they fart. She said one time two seasons ago: "I started yawning and I didn't want to go to work." I was like: "Umm... what? That isn't yawning that sounds like someone who has a medical problem." Then the writers just go: "But, she is lazy, look at Axl." No, you are writing these people with special needs or need to see a specialist and think it's funny and it isn't. Just like their financial issues, everyone brings it up, the entire Heck family knows they make bad financial decisions, but does anyone help them or they do anything about it? No it's: "But we always do it this way, why change?" When it's TPTB think it's funny and we don't agree or bow down to their story logic. 

I know plenty of people in the real world who made bad financial decisions in the past and continue to do so even when they start making more money. Is it laziness? Is it habit? I don't know, but I do know it is something that happens in real life. I'm pretty sure that Brick will be able to function just fine on his own as I've met plenty of people in college who had even more strange quirks than him. If the guy who has his hands down his pants in the middle of my class can have a successful career, I think Brick will be just fine. 

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Do they actually still make lawn chairs like that? Haven't seen one since the early eighties.

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26 minutes ago, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Do they actually still make lawn chairs like that? Haven't seen one since the early eighties.

Yes - see Amazon link upthread

Keeping forgetting too, Bricked worked at Spudsy.

Edited by sheetmoss.
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Agree with a lot that's been said in this thread. I don't have anything invested in S/S - they would be cute together, but I don't think they're an OTP or anything. IIRC, the term "shipping" began over Mulder and Scully on the X-Files - now that was some massive UST that went on for season after season. What they've done with S/S is nothing like that. I mean it's hard to have UST when two people literally never see each other or speak to each other!

They had Brick bring the chairs to Grandpa Big Mike's because they wanted to have him come back with the recliner. The recliner was more important than how to explain the $872 spent on folding chairs. This show, in recent seasons, doesn't mind throwing in unrealistic or uncharacteristic behavior in order to go for the "big joke". For example, they had Sue move forward in fashion, still dressing quirky but not so babyish. Then, because they needed it for a plot point, they had her regress and start dressing babyish again. It's one of the biggest weaknesses of these writers. 

The show actually worked when the kids were in different locations - it was okay that Axl was away at school, and then Sue. But for some reason this season, everyone had to be "home again". Which led to absurd situations like Sue doing the hotel scholarship interview at home instead of her beautiful, quiet, peaceful apartment. (Again, whatever serves the joke, even if it makes no sense). 

For sure, the hardware store scenes were the best part of this episode. But it was sad to see that Sue has lost so much of her "Sue-ness" that her dad has to talk her back into it. I miss indefatigable Sue. 

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I did laugh when Brick made theatre seating with the chairs and then complained when Frankie sat right next to him.

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1 hour ago, tessaforever said:

For sure, the hardware store scenes were the best part of this episode. But it was sad to see that Sue has lost so much of her "Sue-ness" that her dad has to talk her back into it. I miss indefatigable Sue. 

Yes, I agree that Sue's characterization didn't work for me at all this season.  And I'm not sure how her attitude change after talking with Mike was supposed to make sense.  His pep talk would have made better sense to me if he said "what have you done to tell Sean you like him?" and given her motivation to actually finally speak with him- to try hard at it just like she does with everything else.  In her own words - "lay it all out there and see what happens" (from Glossners episode).  Instead, it was like he was telling her that she always fails so just give up now without really trying and be happy about not getting what you want - like usual.  Now, I know that wasn't exactly his point - his point was that nothing ever gets her down, so she shouldn't let a guy make her feel that way.  But in this case, except for pulling a party together for NYE, she really has done NOTHING to try for him.  So, his suggestion was for her to actually give up BEFORE trying is like he's assuming she won't get liked back by Sean.  To have the point of Mike's speech be that she is to "give up the fantasy" of Sean (although that line was more pointed to the fans than Sue) was already done in "The Other Man" episode.  She was moving on from the "unattainable guy" then and giving Aiden a shot.  So, why bring it up again like that never happened and belittle her feelings for Sean again?  So, is this one of those times that when you give up on something you really, really want that it suddenly comes your way because it was meant to be??  Because if that's the case it should have happened months ago.  Ughh.....

Edited by Catmeister.
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8 minutes ago, Catmeister said:

Yes, I agree that Sue's characterization didn't work for me at all this season.  And I'm not sure how her attitude change after talking with Mike was supposed to make sense.  His pep talk would have made better sense to me if he said "what have you done to tell Sean you like him?" and given her motivation to actually finally speak with him- to try hard at it just like she does with everything else.  In her own words - "lay it all out there and see what happens" (from Glossners episode).  Instead, it was like he was telling her that she always fails so just give up now without really trying and be happy about not getting what you want - like usual.  Now, I know that wasn't exactly his point - his point was that nothing ever gets her down, so she shouldn't let a guy make her feel that way.  But in this case, except for pulling a party together for NYE, she really has done NOTHING to try for him.  So, his suggestion was for her to actually give up BEFORE trying is like he's assuming she won't get liked back by Sean.  To have the point of Mike's speech be that she is to "give up the fantasy" of Sean (although that line was more pointed to the fans than Sue) was already done in "The Other Man" episode.  She was moving on from the "unattainable guy" then and giving Aiden a shot.  So, why bring it up again like that never happened and belittle her feelings for Sean again?  So, is this one of those times that when you give up on something you really, really want that it suddenly comes your way because it was meant to be??  Because if that's the case it should have happened months ago.  Ughh.....

Honestly, I felt like the line about "giving up the fantasy" simply meant that she shouldn't expect a fairy tale story. This doesn't mean they won't get together, it just might not happen the way she expects it to. The way she talks about the kiss as being "perfect" demonstrates that she wants the whole situation to be "perfect." I also get her not being able to let go. Even though we don't always see it on screen, I assume that Sue and Sean see each other all of the time...not necessarily on purpose. They go to school near each other, bump into each other often, and live across the street at home. It's not like Logan (who was only in 3 episodes) where she didn't see him that much...so it was easier to get over him. The fact that Sean and Sue have such a long history, even if it isn't a romantic one, is important to the story. And even though they aren't officially a couple, we have seen many sweet scenes between them, with more to come I'm sure. All of these moments are a part of the relationship even if they aren't official when they happen. I guess that is why I have liked their story line this season because we actually did get a lot of nice moments. We got to see Sean rescuing Sue, helping her get her apartment back, we saw him almost ask her out, saw them spending time together as friends eating pizza, got to see Sean talk about his feelings to someone else twice, got to see Sue talking about her feelings, the kiss, Sean helping her out when she drank too much, etc etc. I know it has been quite the slow burn, but I think the finale will make it worth it, at least for me. 

And as a tip, I started enjoying this season much more when I watched each episode with a positive attitude. If you assume you won't enjoy something before it even happens, you most likely won't enjoy it. 

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21 minutes ago, Tvshipper said:

And as a tip, I started enjoying this season much more when I watched each episode with a positive attitude. If you assume you won't enjoy something before it even happens, you most likely won't enjoy it. 

Thank for the advice, but for the record I have tried that, actually with pretty much every S/S episode that's aired since January.   I'm hoping for the finale to be good.  I want it to be good, as promised, but sad that it's all we will get of a storyline that should have been so much more...

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1 hour ago, Tvshipper said:

Honestly, I felt like the line about "giving up the fantasy" simply meant that she shouldn't expect a fairy tale story. This doesn't mean they won't get together, it just might not happen the way she expects it to. The way she talks about the kiss as being "perfect" demonstrates that she wants the whole situation to be "perfect." I also get her not being able to let go. Even though we don't always see it on screen, I assume that Sue and Sean see each other all of the time...not necessarily on purpose. They go to school near each other, bump into each other often, and live across the street at home. It's not like Logan (who was only in 3 episodes) where she didn't see him that much...so it was easier to get over him. The fact that Sean and Sue have such a long history, even if it isn't a romantic one, is important to the story. And even though they aren't officially a couple, we have seen many sweet scenes between them, with more to come I'm sure. All of these moments are a part of the relationship even if they aren't official when they happen. I guess that is why I have liked their story line this season because we actually did get a lot of nice moments. We got to see Sean rescuing Sue, helping her get her apartment back, we saw him almost ask her out, saw them spending time together as friends eating pizza, got to see Sean talk about his feelings to someone else twice, got to see Sue talking about her feelings, the kiss, Sean helping her out when she drank too much, etc etc. I know it has been quite the slow burn, but I think the finale will make it worth it, at least for me. 

And as a tip, I started enjoying this season much more when I watched each episode with a positive attitude. If you assume you won't enjoy something before it even happens, you most likely won't enjoy it. 

What makes you assume she watched it with a negative attitude?...

Edited by ClaireS.
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Remember a few seasons ago at the season finale when Frankie's voice over said Axl met the love of his life? Who was that? April? That didn't last. Lexi? They don't seem like endgame to me. Things like that bother me. 

Frankie was horrid this week. I really wanted this last season to be wonderful, but it hasn't been. A few bright spots, a few call backs to previous episodes that made me smile, but overall, it's been a dud. It irritated me that Sue was home from college so much. 

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2 hours ago, ClaireS said:

What makes you assume she watched it with a negative attitude?...

I never said that, but everyone already seems to be saying that the finale will be disappointing even though we know nothing about it

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50 minutes ago, Tvshipper said:

everyone already seems to be saying that the finale will be disappointing even though we know nothing about it

Going in I am adopting the ninth unwritten beatitude:    Blessed is the man who expecteth nothing, for he is not disappointed.    It's not a positive outlook but it keeps me from kicking my furniture.

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4 hours ago, Tvshipper said:

Even though we don't always see it on screen, I assume that Sue and Sean see each other all of the time...not necessarily on purpose. They go to school near each other, bump into each other often, and live across the street at home. It's not like Logan (who was only in 3 episodes) where she didn't see him that much...so it was easier to get over him. The fact that Sean and Sue have such a long history, even if it isn't a romantic one, is important to the story.

I think the times we’ve seen onscreen are the only times they’ve seen each other this year. If they’ve been running into each other often and still aren’t dating, they either don’t really want to or are even more immature than they’ve seemed as it is. Sean is in medical school. He probably almost never comes home. He would be far too busy to be coming home often. I think until this season their history has mostly been Sean’s friend’s younger sister and neighbor that he has felt sorry for at times, when he’s noticed her at all. It seems clear to me the writers thought this whole thing up during the summer as a contrived way to give Sue some fairytale ending. And then couldn’t be bothered to actually write the story. 

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6 hours ago, tessaforever said:

 

They had Brick bring the chairs to Grandpa Big Mike's because they wanted to have him come back with the recliner. The recliner was more important than how to explain the $872 spent on folding chairs. This show, in recent seasons, doesn't mind throwing in unrealistic or uncharacteristic behavior in order to go for the "big joke". For example, they had Sue move forward in fashion, still dressing quirky but not so babyish. Then, because they needed it for a plot point, they had her regress and start dressing babyish again. It's one of the biggest weaknesses of these writers. 

Exactly and it's happened a lot the last two years. Brick's lawn chair was gone for almost a year and then they wanted to bring it back because: "Brick's back bothered him reading without the lawnchair." Then it's shown, but then disappeared too on and off the last year. Now, it's fall apart and all of a sudden, Brick is on Amazon using his parent's account to buy over $800 in chairs and no one stops him and goes: "where are you getting all this money?" No, they say just give it to Mike's father, so the joke can be driven about getting the reliner. Just like the snow globe on and off, but could Sean or Sue ever fucking talk to each other? Nah, that's not the point of the idea, it is just done as I have said before: "Plot driving characters not the other way around." Last Man Standing and Family Matters back in the day made that a focal point. I don't disagree as other have said about people making stupid financial decisions no matter how much they dig themselves out or fix things and then make a bad decision. However, just to play a joke or to say: "See, that's why they are like this, they just live that way." It isn't funny or realistic it, it comes off as how this person even able to function in life. 

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2 hours ago, readster said:

Exactly and it's happened a lot the last two years. Brick's lawn chair was gone for almost a year and then they wanted to bring it back because: "Brick's back bothered him reading without the lawnchair." Then it's shown, but then disappeared too on and off the last year. Now, it's fall apart and all of a sudden, Brick is on Amazon using his parent's account to buy over $800 in chairs and no one stops him and goes: "where are you getting all this money?" No, they say just give it to Mike's father, so the joke can be driven about getting the reliner. Just like the snow globe on and off, but could Sean or Sue ever fucking talk to each other? Nah, that's not the point of the idea, it is just done as I have said before: "Plot driving characters not the other way around." Last Man Standing and Family Matters back in the day made that a focal point. I don't disagree as other have said about people making stupid financial decisions no matter how much they dig themselves out or fix things and then make a bad decision. However, just to play a joke or to say: "See, that's why they are like this, they just live that way." It isn't funny or realistic it, it comes off as how this person even able to function in life. 

Maybe Brick will just be a hoarder like his grandpa. 

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Sue's still majoring in hospitality I wish we could have seen her interning or working a hotel and starting out there

It might have been fun to watch Sue learning how to function in a hotel, especially if she was working at a hotel in Orson.  Watch her head explode when she delivers extra towels to Mr. & Mrs. Smith in room 233 and she recognizes "Mr. Smith" is her high school math teacher and that is NOT his wife?  What happens when she has to explain to the nice family and their kids that they CANNOT check in because their credit card was declined?  How does she handle the nit-picky guest who insists on inspecting every room and finds something wrong with every one?  Will Sue flap her arms and run around like a chicken? or will she use newly discovered maturity and common sense and get good at her new job?

I was speculating on Brick's future.  I see him hired at the city library, but he is reprimanded and almost fired because he spent the entire yearly budget for the library on books about fonts, and micro-fiche machines...

Axl will likely be a huge success because pretty boys who move through life with bravado and bullshit often succeed far beyond their real talents.

As for Mike and Frankie...nothing will ever change for them, because Mike doesn't care and Frankie doesn't try.  They are stuck in their rut forever.

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On 5/17/2018 at 8:26 AM, Yeah No said:

What I thought was dumb was that Frankie told him to keep one chair and "donate" the rest.  Any mother in their income bracket would have told him to return the rest, not donate them!  On top of it being preposterous that he would be able to buy so many chairs by himself in the first place, there was no "back to reality" moment to save it from being completely ridiculous and unbelievable.

 

23 hours ago, jww said:

I thought the chairs didn't cost that much and that after paying to ship them back there would not be much of a savings; however on Amazon they are $58 apiece, that would be a lot of gift cards.

https://www.amazon.com/Lawn-Chair-USA-Aluminum-Webbed/dp/B00DC2QH6O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526563763&sr=8-1&keywords=lawn+chairs+web

 

22 hours ago, readster said:

Yes and if you total that it comes out to: $870 and that is with free shipping. Yeah, since they have never shown Frankie or Mike doing taxes. That is a mortgage payment right there. 

I thought it was ridiculous when Frankie was pressuring Brick into some over the top Prom proposal that would cost a small fortune. Prom is not cheap and where is Brick getting all this money? Does he still work at Spudsies? Does he just use saved credit cards on the computer?

8 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

It might have been fun to watch Sue learning how to function in a hotel, especially if she was working at a hotel in Orson.  Watch her head explode when she delivers extra towels to Mr. & Mrs. Smith in room 233 and she recognizes "Mr. Smith" is her high school math teacher and that is NOT his wife?  What happens when she has to explain to the nice family and their kids that they CANNOT check in because their credit card was declined?  How does she handle the nit-picky guest who insists on inspecting every room and finds something wrong with every one?  Will Sue flap her arms and run around like a chicken? or will she use newly discovered maturity and common sense and get good at her new job?

I was speculating on Brick's future.  I see him hired at the city library, but he is reprimanded and almost fired because he spent the entire yearly budget for the library on books about fonts, and micro-fiche machines...

Axl will likely be a huge success because pretty boys who move through life with bravado and bullshit often succeed far beyond their real talents.

As for Mike and Frankie...nothing will ever change for them, because Mike doesn't care and Frankie doesn't try.  They are stuck in their rut forever.

This would have been so much better than watching her mope on the couch for a guy who did not even text her after a long passionate kiss, yet, leaves her presents randomly on her front door, not even thinking there could have been a mix-up.

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On 5/16/2018 at 9:48 AM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

 I suppose the Axl fans are getting to see him truly grow up and spread his wings.  Frankie, however, was worse than usual in my opinion. I get her not wanting her son to move so far away, but she just took it a little too far this episode. I would have liked to have seen more Lexi because I am interested in her and Axl making it.  

I don't understand why shows always force some silly story about a character getting a job far away from their hometown as the only option and the only way to "grow" as a person. It is one of the few tropes that really irks me. He doesn't have to stay in Orson, but why does he have to move 15 hours away? There are literally no decent jobs to be had for Axl between Orson and Denver? Have him get a decent job in a bigger city in Indiana and get his own place - there, now he's grown, he's an adult and can still spend time with his loved ones. Unless this job is offering a life-changing pay bump, I don't get it.

Besides which, I have a hard time believing that Axl is so good that he would get headhunted by a company. That doesn't mean that I think he's a POS who can't make something of himself. I just find this plot line contrived.

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7 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I don't understand why shows always force some silly story about a character getting a job far away from their hometown as the only option and the only way to "grow" as a person. It is one of the few tropes that really irks me. He doesn't have to stay in Orson, but why does he have to move 15 hours away? There are literally no decent jobs to be had for Axl between Orson and Denver? Have him get a decent job in a bigger city in Indiana and get his own place - there, now he's grown, he's an adult and can still spend time with his loved ones. Unless this job is offering a life-changing pay bump, I don't get it.

Besides which, I have a hard time believing that Axl is so good that he would get headhunted by a company. That doesn't mean that I think he's a POS who can't make something of himself. I just find this plot line contrived.

He didn't get headhunted. He was offered an interview from someone he knew from work. And I do believe it's possible that he hasn't even tried applying to other jobs, this opportunity just sort of popped up. Having moved 10 hours away from my family for work after college (after applying and interviewing for months near home and elsewhere), it's not as rare as you would think...and it really does make you grow up in a hurry when you don't have a support system that you can fall back on at any moment. How many times has Axl left the nest, only to return again because things didn't work out the way he expected them too, i.e. getting evicted and moving home with his roommates, not getting a job immediately after college, etc. You don't necessarily have to move away to "grow," but experiencing different things, meeting new people, and getting out of your comfort bubble can be a great thing. This is especially true if you are not tied down with other responsibilities such as parenthood, supporting elderly relatives, etc.

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On 5/16/2018 at 4:51 PM, jumper sage said:

Well my mother and my sister had a similar thing when my sister and her husband were thinking of moving across the state - from Detroit area to Holland - my mother listened to her and then said, "Your daughter is going to really miss you both".  Did she intend on keeping the baby, sure.  To be honest, we have always lived down the street or around the corner from each other - very Italian.  My brother lives in the same county but 19 miles to the north and we hate it.  His son moved to the neighboring county and we almost cried.  It is the breakup of the family.  His house is never the meeting place.  I don't even know how to get there.

My husband and I come from very different backgrounds re: family moving away. Our families grew up in the same city in Connecticut: his family is now scattered from Wisconsin to North Carolina and a few other states, with a few remaining in CT. All of my family on the same level (parents, siblings, aunts/uncles/first cousins) are still in CT. The ones who live the farthest away are roughly a half an hour drive. We've actually gotten into arguments about it, because from my perspective, moving away from family that you truly care about and are close to makes no sense, unless one is offered the chance of lifetime or something. Some of his family members moved on a whim. without even a job offer or a place to live. Yikes. I just don't get it.

That's why when I see these stories about characters who are offered any chance to leave, they take it, and people get upset at the idea that they wouldn't take it, and act like it's so sad that someone might actually want to stay close to family and friends.

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17 minutes ago, Tvshipper said:

He didn't get headhunted. He was offered an interview from someone he knew from work. 

I stand corrected, thank you. 

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7 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

My husband and I come from very different backgrounds re: family moving away. Our families grew up in the same city in Connecticut: his family is now scattered from Wisconsin to North Carolina and a few other states, with a few remaining in CT. All of my family on the same level (parents, siblings, aunts/uncles/first cousins) are still in CT. The ones who live the farthest away are roughly a half an hour drive. We've actually gotten into arguments about it, because from my perspective, moving away from family that you truly care about and are close to makes no sense, unless one is offered the chance of lifetime or something. Some of his family members moved on a whim. without even a job offer or a place to live. Yikes. I just don't get it.

That's why when I see these stories about characters who are offered any chance to leave, they take it, and people get upset at the idea that they wouldn't take it, and act like it's so sad that someone might actually want to stay close to family and friends.

I don't think it's sad to want to stay close to family, but I don't see Axl as being that sentimental. Besides, he is an unmarried/childless guy. If he decides later on that he wants to be closer to home, he could move closer to home later. Moving away doesn't have to be forever. 

I would say that I know just as many people who choose to stay near home as people who have moved far away from home after college. 

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On 5/17/2018 at 1:07 AM, Yeah No said:

If all that's not a lot of history I don't know what is.  All that early stuff plus all the "near misses" of Sean surprising her by asking her to the "Chancellor's Ball" last season, and all the previous times he asked her to dances but she already had a date 

I'm not counting this last year, because that's when the bad writing began.  That's when they seemed to get the idea of sticking the two together.  

A one way middle school crush, and Sean asking her to dances is all there is.  And I always got the impression that those dances weren't because Sean "desired" Sue, but rather because his mother was pushing him to do it, and to help her out because she didn't have another option (or so he thought), and because it was a "Donahue" thing to do.

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16 minutes ago, Tvshipper said:

I don't think it's sad to want to stay close to family, but I don't see Axl as being that sentimental. Besides, he is an unmarried/childless guy. If he decides later on that he wants to be closer to home, he could move closer to home later. Moving away doesn't have to be forever. 

I would say that I know just as many people who choose to stay near home as people who have moved far away from home after college. 

That's a fair point about Axl. He loves his family, but he doesn't need to see them every day. And as you said, he's single and can come and go as he pleases. Plus, with technology today, keeping in touch is easier than ever and practically free. Who doesn't have a smartphone or a laptop?

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3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I don't understand why shows always force some silly story about a character getting a job far away from their hometown as the only option and the only way to "grow" as a person. It is one of the few tropes that really irks me. He doesn't have to stay in Orson, but why does he have to move 15 hours away? There are literally no decent jobs to be had for Axl between Orson and Denver? Have him get a decent job in a bigger city in Indiana and get his own place - there, now he's grown, he's an adult and can still spend time with his loved ones. Unless this job is offering a life-changing pay bump, I don't get it.

Besides which, I have a hard time believing that Axl is so good that he would get headhunted by a company. That doesn't mean that I think he's a POS who can't make something of himself. I just find this plot line contrived.

Totally agree, very contrived!😊

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I stand corrected, thank you. 

Tomato, tomatoe right?  I would call it headhunted just like you did, great post...

Edited by ClaireS.
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4 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I don't understand why shows always force some silly story about a character getting a job far away from their hometown as the only option and the only way to "grow" as a person. It is one of the few tropes that really irks me. He doesn't have to stay in Orson, but why does he have to move 15 hours away? There are literally no decent jobs to be had for Axl between Orson and Denver? Have him get a decent job in a bigger city in Indiana and get his own place - there, now he's grown, he's an adult and can still spend time with his loved ones. Unless this job is offering a life-changing pay bump, I don't get it.

Besides which, I have a hard time believing that Axl is so good that he would get headhunted by a company. That doesn't mean that I think he's a POS who can't make something of himself. I just find this plot line contrived.

It is weird. Why not Indianapolis which is close to Orson? Or any of the other cities in Indiana. 

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Indianapolis IS The Crossroads of America! Chicago? Cincinnati? But then there wouldn’t be the DRAMA of moving away.

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28 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Indianapolis IS The Crossroads of America! Chicago? Cincinnati? But then there wouldn’t be the DRAMA of moving away.

Exactly!  What a tired trope...

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

I'm not counting this last year, because that's when the bad writing began.  That's when they seemed to get the idea of sticking the two together.  

A one way middle school crush, and Sean asking her to dances is all there is.  And I always got the impression that those dances weren't because Sean "desired" Sue, but rather because his mother was pushing him to do it, and to help her out because she didn't have another option (or so he thought), and because it was a "Donahue" thing to do.

Bad writing, indeed...

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6 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I don't understand why shows always force some silly story about a character getting a job far away from their hometown as the only option and the only way to "grow" as a person. It is one of the few tropes that really irks me. He doesn't have to stay in Orson, but why does he have to move 15 hours away? There are literally no decent jobs to be had for Axl between Orson and Denver? Have him get a decent job in a bigger city in Indiana and get his own place - there, now he's grown, he's an adult and can still spend time with his loved ones. Unless this job is offering a life-changing pay bump, I don't get it.

Besides which, I have a hard time believing that Axl is so good that he would get headhunted by a company. That doesn't mean that I think he's a POS who can't make something of himself. I just find this plot line contrived.

 

6 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

My husband and I come from very different backgrounds re: family moving away. Our families grew up in the same city in Connecticut: his family is now scattered from Wisconsin to North Carolina and a few other states, with a few remaining in CT. All of my family on the same level (parents, siblings, aunts/uncles/first cousins) are still in CT. The ones who live the farthest away are roughly a half an hour drive. We've actually gotten into arguments about it, because from my perspective, moving away from family that you truly care about and are close to makes no sense, unless one is offered the chance of lifetime or something. Some of his family members moved on a whim. without even a job offer or a place to live. Yikes. I just don't get it.

That's why when I see these stories about characters who are offered any chance to leave, they take it, and people get upset at the idea that they wouldn't take it, and act like it's so sad that someone might actually want to stay close to family and friends.

 

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It is weird. Why not Indianapolis which is close to Orson? Or any of the other cities in Indiana. 

 

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Indianapolis IS The Crossroads of America! Chicago? Cincinnati? But then there wouldn’t be the DRAMA of moving away.

Guys, I just saw the episode where Sue sells a ton of sausage and cheese in an effort to go on an overnight field trip to Indianapolis. They made a big joke about how Mike drove her all over Indiana so she could win a trip that was roughly an hour away from Orson. So Orson is not a dead end town but one that is pretty close to a booming metropolis. 

They showed a promo for the season finale and I actually was pretty touched. I know this year has not been the best with the Sean and Sue fiasco but I am really going to miss this show. It portrayed a loving working-class family in a positive light without glossing over the warts of making bad financial decisions without having a financial cushion.

I wish this show would have gone on for five more years. I love it and am sad it is ending

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Not only is Indianapolis a larger city than Denver, the cost of living is 26%-30% cheaper than Denver. So Axl better be getting a heck of a salary increase for Denver to make sense. And that’s not taking into account he was living in Orson, which would certainly be even cheaper, and not actually in Indianapolis. But the Hecks aren’t financially savy. 

Edited by Ria.
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20 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

 

I was speculating on Brick's future.  I see him hired at the city library, but he is reprimanded and almost fired because he spent the entire yearly budget for the library on books about fonts, and micro-fiche machines...

J

Not that this show is ever realistic about work situations, but in a real library, only a few staff are authorized to purchase books or other equipment.  If he gets a degree first, he might qualify for one of those positions.  And I've known librarians who are very similar to Brick in many ways; they are great places for liberal arts/humanities nerds with major quirks.

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3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It is weird. Why not Indianapolis which is close to Orson? Or any of the other cities in Indiana. 

If I had a choice between Denver and Indianapolis, I'd pick Denver in a heartbeat.  Why wouldn't a young, single person want to live somewhere different, whether it's permanent or not?  At least Mike seems to understand.  He probably has a few regrets over his own unadventurous life.

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29 minutes ago, EllenB said:

If I had a choice between Denver and Indianapolis, I'd pick Denver in a heartbeat.  Why wouldn't a young, single person want to live somewhere different, whether it's permanent or not?  At least Mike seems to understand.  He probably has a few regrets over his own unadventurous life.

Mike has nothing really to regret other than chronic homeowner laziness.  Look at his dad and brother. He probably didn’t have an ideal home life with them. Yet he was a star high school basketball player. He went to college and owns a large home in a nice neighborhood. He raised three decent kids and go two through college so far. If he and Frankie put any effort into their house, it would look 100% better.

Maybe Axl needs to go to Denver to break away from his family and to not be able to run home whenever he has a problem. Mike likely didn’t have to do that. It’s hard to imagine Mike needing to leave town so as to be independent and not to be smothered by his family, ie his dad and Rusty. 

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13 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

My husband and I come from very different backgrounds re: family moving away. Our families grew up in the same city in Connecticut: his family is now scattered from Wisconsin to North Carolina and a few other states, with a few remaining in CT. All of my family on the same level (parents, siblings, aunts/uncles/first cousins) are still in CT. The ones who live the farthest away are roughly a half an hour drive. We've actually gotten into arguments about it, because from my perspective, moving away from family that you truly care about and are close to makes no sense, unless one is offered the chance of lifetime or something. Some of his family members moved on a whim. without even a job offer or a place to live. Yikes. I just don't get it.

I'm originally from New York but have lived in CT for a long time and I've noticed that a lot of people here would never think of leaving the area for better or worse.  Some people don't even understand going to the mall a few towns over, LOL.  That said, I think the 2 hour drive to New York is too long.

But I think Axl, despite his acting so independent from family really hasn't impressed me as someone that wants to be THAT far away from home.  I could see Indianapolis, but I think Denver is a little too far, even for him.  He likes being able to come and go from his family as he pleases, which means being at a comfortable driving distance.  I don't even think it's a matter that Skype or Facebook could solve.  It makes me wonder if when he gets Denver out of his system he would come back closer to home.  I'm sure if Lexi has anything to do with it, this will definitely happen.  This show is just BEGGING for a sequel centered around the kids.  I'm still hoping that happens in the future!  I think the show deserved at least one more season to resolve some of this, not that the writers couldn't have done some of that this season but just didn't.

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13 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I'm originally from New York but have lived in CT for a long time and I've noticed that a lot of people here would never think of leaving the area for better or worse.  Some people don't even understand going to the mall a few towns over, LOL.  That said, I think the 2 hour drive to New York is too long.

But I think Axl, despite his acting so independent from family really hasn't impressed me as someone that wants to be THAT far away from home.  I could see Indianapolis, but I think Denver is a little too far, even for him.  He likes being able to come and go from his family as he pleases, which means being at a comfortable driving distance.  I don't even think it's a matter that Skype or Facebook could solve.  It makes me wonder if when he gets Denver out of his system he would come back closer to home.  I'm sure if Lexi has anything to do with it, this will definitely happen.  This show is just BEGGING for a sequel centered around the kids.  I'm still hoping that happens in the future!  I think the show deserved at least one more season to resolve some of this, not that the writers couldn't have done some of that this season but just didn't.

Yeah, that's really want I wanted to see this season and would have loved to watch in the next seasons. Axl graduated from college now navigating the world post-graduation, looking for jobs, getting his first after college job, working there then maybe finding a second job but maybe not in Orson but somewhere else. Seeing him figuring out what he wants. What does he want? Does he want to work in sports or somewhere else? What's it like for him to be far away from his family enough that he can't just drop by when ever he wants. Sue graduating, working hotels and doing internships, maybe she and Sean date and marry. Maybe they don't. Maybe Axl and Lexi marry. What happens to Brick? If he goes to college does he ever leave the library or libraries? What career would he chose? 

Edited by andromeda331.
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14 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Besides which, I have a hard time believing that Axl is so good that he would get headhunted by a company. That doesn't mean that I think he's a POS who can't make something of himself. I just find this plot line contrived.

I find it contrived too, but especially puzzling is that I've come away with the impression that the job offer itself isn't that fantastic.  The way Axl acted, it isn't even better or more relevant for him than his present job.  So I don't get the entire plot line.  I would think the show would make this an obviously fantastic offer that he just couldn't pass up, which would make him moving that far away understandable.  It wasn't even like he was looking to move away and this was a good way to achieve that.  He wasn't.  So the entire plot line doesn't even make much sense.  It just looks to me like a tired, lazy way to show that the characters are "moving on" with their lives and not staying stagnant in Orson.  But there were soooo many other, better ways to achieve that.  I just think they wanted to give Frankie an opportunity to act out and call it a day because the series was ending. 

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Axl did say it’s a better job than he has. He also spent the past summer in Europe with Kenny so he has shown he can be away from home. Everyone is different but I have lived in three different states, one far from home. I encourage all the young people I meet to try living somewhere else and explore life away from home. 

I don’t really care if Sean and Sue get together, she is still in college and not likely to settle down at this point, at the worst Sean might marry her now and then break up with her when he becomes a doctor which seems to be a thing. I will be happy if all the characters end up in a positive place, whatever that might be. A little bit about the future of the kids would be nice too.

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13 hours ago, EllenB said:

If I had a choice between Denver and Indianapolis, I'd pick Denver in a heartbeat.  Why wouldn't a young, single person want to live somewhere different, whether it's permanent or not?  At least Mike seems to understand.  He probably has a few regrets over his own unadventurous life.

Exactly. I'm sensing a difference in generations in this forum because seeing people move out of town in the blink of an eye for a job is something that I see happening all of the time. It's part of the reason why I don't have many local friends, because people leave, and I recently left too. The thing with job offers and opportunities is that you don't have much time to make a decision. When I moved out of state for a job, I hadn't even heard of the city that it was located in. I spent a few days researching things about it, places to live, etc and decided it would be okay. And not all job offers are "amazing" but they are opportunities and experiences that can be added to your resume and life experience. 

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