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S05.E04: Pandora's Box 2018.05.15

The team must rely on the help of Shadow Velley's dangerous new inhabitants to save some of its own.

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Bellamy doing the ":someone wants to talk to you" and Clarke talking to Raven and Murphy on the radio was hands down my favorite thing about this episode.

Really enjoying Muphy and Raven on the ship together. 

Clarke clearly knew immediately what had gone down as soon as she glanced around the pit.  I don't think Bellamy got it until Octavia said a third of the population was dead.

It says a lot that Indra clearly clued in Clarke that being let out of the bunker wouldn't stop Octavia for killing Kane.

Oh, and Octavia still works my last nerve.  She's still a petulant child playing at being Commander.  Telling Bellamy its all his fault for getting them out of the bunker without a plan that was flawless.  I suppose she would be rather still be down there.

I am not looking forward to watching two opposing forces that are annoying the hell out of me go to war.   It seems like this season is heading towards Kane/Abby, Clarke/Bellamy, and the rest of SpaceKru trying to get the unstoppable force from colliding with the immovable object.

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1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

Bellamy doing the ":someone wants to talk to you" and Clarke talking to Raven and Murphy on the radio was hands down my favorite thing about this episode.

Same. It was cliche, but I loved it. From Raven's relieved voice and thanking Clarke for her sacrifice to Murphy's grin when he heard Clarke's voice, it was a really strong moment before we went back to the Bunker Games. 

Octavia is the worst. First off, she has no ground to stand on when declaring that she was against Bellamy at the end. He never said to trust the prisoners; he said to trust him. She had to have known that he would have no true control over Prisonkru. She really has some nerve to turn her nose up at Bellamy when she's the one who slaughtered....what, 400 people in the last six years? 812 are left (well now 811). 

Speaking of mass murder, I was cheering on Murphy and Raven to pull the plug. Of course it's too late now. It's funny to think of how much Murphy has grown in the last four seasons (and six+ years). He even hesitated to pull the plug! And it was nice to hear someone say "Wait, I'm not sure I can kill a bunch of people, even for the greater good". At least someone has some morals left, even though it would have been for the right reasons. 

It was nice to see Kane and Abby so vehemently against Octavia and even Indra was more of the peacekeeper. 

ETA: Also, speaking of 811 lives, there's no way they finished getting everyone out of the bunker. They're going to be at the process for days, or even weeks. They never really said if they were continuing to filter people out of the bunker or not.

Edited by Lady Calypso.
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I must be the only one that likes Octavia.  I imagine that 6 years in the bunker could devolve into a gladiator form of justice, she just happened to be the leader.  I couldn't help but see the parallel to her living under the floor on the Arc and in the bunker now.  Also, Kane did float her mother and I'm pretty sure he would hand out justice similar to Octavia if he was in charge.  He has no leg to stand on here.

 

Overall, I really liked this episode.  The gang is back together, well kinda, sans Murphy and Raven (love those two).

Who's ready to see Wanheda and Indra kick some arse?

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I'd like to know more about the "dark year". 

I love how no one who shows up new ever asks many questions about what happened to earth. It's like, "only one valley left, it's ours. And, we aren't interested in knowing why everyone is all Lord of the Flies down here." "Blood filled room I just dropped in, not worried about it."

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The Bunker storyline is a snooze, and Octagon is The Worst (TM). She's just seen Bellamy for the first time in years, and immediately went full on 14-years-old again with him, blaming him for everything again. BORING! Can she die already? This forced "conflict" is already getting ridiculous, and Octagon didn't even find out about Becho. Poor Bellamy.

Murphy and Raven were perfect in their interactions. Although I'd prefer they kill all the criminals.

Marcus Kane, the peacemaker who is always in the opposition. *sigh* Don't care about Abby and her drug issues. I'm interested in why the Eligius people want a doctor so much, though.

Shaw seems to be shaping up a great potential ally and a love interest for Raven. I think it was obvious he blocked the mining equipment codes at the end.

So Eliguis III mission is highly classified. I hope this'll pay off at the end.

The Bellarke hug(s) was overhyped.

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I like Octavia too. I loved the look she gave when it became apparent that war were declared.

Not a fan of Bellamy to say the least, so seeing him white knight it got on my nerves. Flipping Bellarke better not be end game.

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Octavia's Thunderdome actually kind of sounds lame know that apparently a) the crowd can decide a person's freedom and b) Octavia herself makes the final call.  I assumed that winning would automatically grant it, but I guess not.  I guess that was how is used to be during the Roman era too, but the idea that Octavia could force someone to keep fighting if she was pissed at him, isn't a settling thought.  And seem to pretty much do that with Kane, even though she knew that Abbie was the one who actually took the medicine.  In other words, Octavia kind of became an asshole once she became the leader.  But I'm guessing it has something to do with this "dark year", that I wouldn't be surprised if we revisit in a flashback.

At least everyone is finally being reunited (except poor Raven and Murphy still stuck in space), and it was fun seeing everyone back together (for now.)  Hopefully we'll see them reunite the rest of the space crew soon, but I'm sure Echo isn't going to be happy seeing how close Bellamy and Clarke are already becoming (again.)

For a second, I thought it was Indra who jumped in front of the weapon, and I got upset for a second.  I mean, it still sucks for the random guy that did, but I don't want anything to happen to Indra!

Raven and Murphy continue to be the best.  Lindsey Morgan and Richard Harmon just can make anything work together.

Diyoza and her gang are still kind of dull.  And you know that it will only be a matter of time before nice pilot guy either turns on them or gets killed (or maybe both!  This is The 100 after all!)

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14 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

And you know that it will only be a matter of time before nice pilot guy either turns on them or gets killed (or maybe both!  This is The 100 after all!)

I think he already did turn on them. And he's not dying, not until he and Raven consummate their nerd space love!

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I'm just surprised that there was even 812 Wonkru left -- having daily Thunderdome sessions with at least a 50% death rate, there should only be 100 or so people left in the bunker. 

What happened during this 'dark year' that everyone keeps referring to ?  Was cannibalism involved, in which case there should be even fewer people left in the bunker ?

Where did these pills come from that Abbey supposedly stole ? Because 100 year old pills probably aren't very effective.

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Raven: Murphy, it's time! Pull the lever!

Me: Of course it's a lever. It's always a damn lever. 

Octavia hasn't matured since the drop ship. She's like a vampire - perpetually frozen in a trauma-induced childhood. 

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2 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

What happened during this 'dark year' that everyone keeps referring to ?  Was cannibalism involved, in which case there should be even fewer people left in the bunker ?

I think cannibalism is too HBO for this show, as much as I want this storyline to happen and find out Octavia gnawed on Nyilah's leg two years ago.

3 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Where did these pills come from that Abbey supposedly stole ? Because 100 year old pills probably aren't very effective.

And noone searched Kane and Abby's quarters for this, so she's still popping the pills without restraint. It's like the writers are doing it on purpose: logic, science? What is that? Oh look, some religious imagery! Aren't we profound and smart?

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Even though we didn't get a physical reunion with everyone I liked Raven and Murphy's reaction to hearing Clarke. Of course you'd think that would make Diyoza realize that Clarke was telling her the truth. It was only her and Madi on the ground. Clarke hasn't seen her people in 6 years. Diyoza and her gang are more of the same. You'd think being a Navy Seal she'd better at planning. 

Shaw definitely looks to be wanting to switch sides or meet his new hacker girlfriend. Are all the prisoners sick is that why they need Abby. 

What was Octavia going to do if Kane confessed that it was Abby that stole the pills, risk losing their only doctor? I don't see how she's a good leader, she wears her tell all over her face. Even Prisonkru got rid of their guy that did that. And now she's going to be mad Bellamy again when he had no control over what happened and said he didn't trust them. Then of course her staring down at that guy in Prisonkru is the reason she got shot, not Bellamy. Maybe she'll be distract Prisonkru from knowing that Clarke is the dangerous one. 

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3 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

I would give Octavia some slack for lashing out at Bellamy. She's was just almost turned into bloody goo and saw one of her people trying to protect her get killed in the most gruesome manner. Of course, she's not gonna think rationally. First, she's gonna be traumatized and put the blame on someone else. Speaking of Octavia, why does she want Kane to admit who stole the medicine? Abby is basically the closest person to him, it's so obvious that he's protecting her. So why does she need him to rat her out?

For me, my issue wouldn't as big with Octavia if I wasn't convinced that her and Bellamy would be at odds for the rest of the season, especially with Echo eventually showing back up. I did like her reunion with Bellamy and Clarke, by the way. She completely went from hardass Commander to a big pile of goo. However, I agree that Murphy and Raven's reunion with Clarke worked better for me.

6 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

Is Diyoza the only woman on the prison ship? If so, I find it kind of strange that she would be in charge. I'd think one single woman in a group of shady male criminals would more likely to be raped than be in charge. I think Shaw is gonna switch sides and get together with Raven, the switching sides/death arc is probably for Diyoza, since some of her Prisonkru are already planning to turn on her and since Ivana Milicevic just got a baby and is not a local Canadian actress, she is very likely to die this season, but she'll probably get a redemption arc in which she saves Maddi, Abby or Raven from something atrocious. 

It seems like she is, but I think we already got a scene of two of the Prisonkru guys talking about overthrowing Diyoza. I'm not positive about that, though, since a lot of the males kind of blend together for me. 

Well, it was obvious from the moment we saw Shaw hacking into the Space computers that he and Raven are going to get together. Which works for me, because Raven deserves happiness and all the love. I think Murphy even hinted toward Raven's happier arc with his whole "you shouldn't be the only one to sacrifice" line. At least, that's the hope. 

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 must be the only one that likes Octavia.  I

Nope I love her, I think she's doing her best in terrible circumstances, and I'm not sure WTF Kane is on about how they have some grand opportunity to do things better in the bunker? It's ostensibly an even  more resources delimited situation they either the ARK or The Mountain, thus even more more reason to cull the #'s. Kane is now pro extinction and has the gall to moralize to her after he pullled the same shit in much more favorable and livable circumstances on the Ark. Take all the seats. The irony certainly isn't lost on Octavia, and it's not  like the Grounders were precious flowers even w/o a real resource crunch, she had to find a justice that made sense on practical and cultural level, I'm sure she would have preferred to have the right to fight for her and/or her mothers life than simply have her administratively disposed of. 


I'm glad they appear to be giving the Prison Kru a bit of understandable motivation, regarding a potential illness or infection they are trying to survive, but I'm confused why they are determined to wage war over a piddly dink valley but also Dioyoza  plans to "go home" and it's clear she doesn't think earth is home,? An alt livable planet has to be the goal of this season, one valley ain't gonna cover it. 

I loved Murphy acknowledging the constant suffering/torture Raven has been subjected to.

 

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I don't have an issue with the trial by combat, but Octavia has turned into whatever she decides. Kane won the battle and since she's mad at him she made him fight again. That's not justice, that's a personal vendetta.  Kane even said he wasn't better on the arc, but they can be better now. If she wants a combat to win your freedom to be the justice system then she has to let that be the justice system. She can change the rules when she wants too. Was she going to make Kane fight until he died? Than at that point she might as well have killed them all. How is that different than what they did on the arc? 

I also think her rash decision making is going to bite her in the ass. She doesn't think things through she just reacts. That makes her easy to read and why Clarke is way more dangerous than her. Diyoza has no idea what Clarke is capable of, while she can spot what kind of person Octavia is a mile away. Clarke will always pull the lever when they don't expect it. 

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but they can be better now

How? Culling is culling is culling is culling what's the just way to cull? How do you do it without mass chaos/resentment/insurrection? Clearly they faced that in their "dark year". Again the Ark was an all together better situation than Octavia has been in,  there is magnitudes of difference between what Kane/et all had to deal with and what Octavia had to deal with yet she's supposed to do it "better"? No way. I don't fault Kane for wanting better generally and for wondering if surviving is the same as LIVING, only for expecting Octavia to do more with less. Octavia is an imperfect leader prone to arrogance? So unlike every other leader ever. 

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IIdon't know what it is y'all want from Octavia.. From living under the floor to on a new earth with weird speaking warriors who want you dead... To mountain freaks to a crazy computer program  to a nuclear holocaust to back underground oh yeah a bunch of ppl she liked got murdered including her first love... And unlike the rest of her "people " she's had no real education no real socilization.. She's like 75 percent grounder... All this before she's 25 I'd say... 

Shaw hasn't been down with mass murder ever and does look like the show will send him raven's way.. Which is good for her if he doesn't die soon 

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They still have Dr. Jackson, even if he is Abby's assistant, still.

So why do they need Abby? I think Eligius IV encountered "something"  after mining, if the plan of the Captain and crew was to kill the prisoners, 

why they didn't kill them after mining at the colony, why took them back in the ship, then mutiny happened.

I am curious what happened to Eligius III, it might show up at the season finale?

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So... 6 years later and Abby is still horrible and selfish... Now you wanna talk about somebody not growing... Let's talk about abby

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8 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I think cannibalism is too HBO for this show, as much as I want this storyline to happen and find out Octavia gnawed on Nyilah's leg two years ago.

Makes you wonder what they are doing with all the dead, though.  A big stinky storage room?

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6 minutes ago, domina89 said:

Makes you wonder what they are doing with all the dead, though.  A big stinky storage room?

Maybe they have a giant pile of quicklime lying around somewhere?

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2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Kane won the battle and since she's mad at him she made him fight again. That's not justice, that's a personal vendetta.

Actually Octavia made him fight again because he lost the crowd, and she probably feared it would make her look weak if she didn't.  Indra warned her he was losing the crowd when he was hacking at that guy after he already killed him, then when he came to his senses and got all remorseful the crowd really didn't like it.  Gaia formally asked Octavia if Kane had won his freedom (the formality made it obvious this was standard procedure) and Octavia said no, he would have to fight for it again.  Then - much like the scene from Gladiator where Proximo warns Maximus he has to do more than just kill, he has to win the crowd -  Octavia goes to Kane and tells him he can improve his chances by cooperating.

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44 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Octavia goes to Kane and tells him he can improve his chances by cooperating.

And then, when Kane says "No, I'm not fighting anymore, you're crazy, Octavia" she decides to kill him herself. Such a benevolent sage leader, our Octavia, to force n innocent man into killing her cult buddies and punish him for his free thinking. I mean, I don't care about Kane much because he's too soft. But Octavia is a fascist tyrant at this point.

Edited by CooperTV.
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So the prison transport went back to space? They have unlimited fuel supplies? How are they gonna keep the valley if they're not on the ground to protect it? Who is Octavia gonna wage war against if they left? There were like twelve of them...the mass of 800 couldn't overpower them? Can they just land in that same little valley with the earth orbiting?

Those new guys all look the same...I have no idea who shot who and why...

Drug addiction? Where did these magical pills come from? No food and air for 1200 people but there's an addictive pill tree?

Every 2 minutes my eye is twitching at some dumb illogical decision...The only saving grace is Raven and Murphy. Even Clarke has been hard to like lately. Though their radio reunion was the best moment of the last 2 seasons. And I see them setting up lieutenant nerd guy and Raven, but sorry I'm already shipping Raven and Murphy. Yes, I'm choosing to ignore what a massive dick he used to be and that he shot and crippled her because if I do that, there's nothing left to enjoy about this show. Oh crap,...I just ruined it for myself. Oh well.

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When Octavia said "this is war!"  I suddenly clicked why this season is so bad. The handwaving is out of control.

How did the Valley survive the wave? Handwave.

How did everybody survive on the Arc for 6 years? Handwave.

How have Clarke and Maddy been getting enough food and water to survive for 6 years? Handwave.

How is this valley they're fighting over going to support all these people when they have no crops, arable land, renewable water sources or equipment? Handwave.

How did the people on the ship power cryo chambers and maintain them with no malfunctions for more than 100 years? Handwave.

If you have to handwave things like "what are these people fighting over anyway?" then the seasons starts to have no point. And I understand that people are f'ing stupid (just look around) but nobody has pointed out that they're going to need farmers, builders, engineers, cooks, cleaners and a million other specialties to survive even in the !Magic Valley!?

They're literally fighting over nothing.

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Unless we are missing something, why would this prison crew be a good society builder? I mean, maybe they aren't all murderers... but if they have cryo and these are the same bad people that got sent off to mine, which based on their look when they were waking up, it does look like a bunch of murderous dudes.... so what will stop them from murdering eachother? How are they going to repopulate the earth if they are all men? (which maybe they won't be, so there is at least that...) But what kind of society will we have with just violent criminals?  Shaw pointed out that there were only like 1200 people left in the human race... does it make sense to kill off a bunch of them?? I mean, come on.

Even if they can survive with the resources in the valley, (Which working together they should be able to spread the growth and the green. The radiation is gone... start planting and expanding. The earth did it before when the first wave came. ) what is their plan? We just live until we die... good bye human race?

 

This whole story with the prisoners is annoying, I guess whatever weird illness they picked up might be interesting... but the previews make it look like they were miners working for Weyland Yutani and are now infected with aliens... so... yeah, I guess we'll see how that goes. 

 

I assume Abby's medication is what is left from the ark medical supplies... and what are they? Pain pills? Her head must not have been fixed the way Raven's was... She should be threatening to kill herself if the prisoners are going to attack wonkru/clarke etc. They need her skills, so she has some leverage... but like others mentioned, they are going to threaten kane to make her work. 

I also wonder if they didn't need to keep killing people and that's what Kane was talking about... like they were doing well on resources and could last a little longer, so they could stop with the culling or something... but we are definitely missing some info.

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1 hour ago, CloudySky said:

So the prison transport went back to space? They have unlimited fuel supplies? How are they gonna keep the valley if they're not on the ground to protect it? Who is Octavia gonna wage war against if they left? There were like twelve of them...the mass of 800 couldn't overpower them? Can they just land in that same little valley with the earth orbiting?

 

They are just gonna say hello to Raven and Murphy and will be back on the ground with their magic weapons. :>

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I mean, say what you will about Pike but at least he was like "we need farmland". Now, the way to get access to that farmland was through Clarke's "13th Clan" idea, not through genocide. But at least he understood people need to be fed. None of these idiots seem to care that a patch of grass doesn't magically mean three squares. In fact, I'd say the Bunker is better equipped to produce food now that they don't have to worry about air and water rationing to produce their crops. They'd be better off staying down there with the Arena serving as an open-air main square and entrance/exit.

But, sure, let's all fight over the Valley #headdesk.

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I'm leery of this thing where Abby's "addicted" to pain medication. In real life, people with chronic or long term pain conditions are stigmatized for using medication they actually need, and TV shows often play into it. Like, there's this idea that because some people misuse pain killers that means there's no legitimate reason for people to use them over an extended period of time. The situation where someone has a very serious medical condition that's gobbling up resources, in a setting where resources are really limited, presents an interesting dilemma and, here, that dilemma is getting reduced to "she could stop taking the medicine, though." Lame.

Anyway.

On 5/16/2018 at 1:52 AM, Subrookie said:

I'd like to know more about the "dark year". 

I love how no one who shows up new ever asks many questions about what happened to earth. It's like, "only one valley left, it's ours. And, we aren't interested in knowing why everyone is all Lord of the Flies down here." "Blood filled room I just dropped in, not worried about it."

I would also like to know about the dark year, assuming it wasn't just that incident we saw where they all started fighting with each other and Octavia killed anyone who wasn't with Wankru.

As far as people not asking questions, that actually reminded me of one of the funniest parts of the previous episode -- where the newbies did ask questions and we cut away, and then cut back to Clarke in the middle of explaining Allie. Maybe once you've heard the plot from the first couple seasons you're just like, "Okay, I see that I just have to go with whatever's happening, here."

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There are a lot of small jumps to get the story moving fast. I'd rather they'd make a big jump to start with a clean slate. Oh wait, didn't they just do that with the 6 year jump, so why do we have to have this convoluted storytelling only intended to get us to standoffs and action sequences.... Boring, but Handwavium as stated above kinda hits in on the head.

Yeah, they are not shy about trying out all possible Sci-Fi scenarios now with a sickness coming (Alien?). They also need to if they want to have anything to tell later on if this is not the final season. They will find something for sure, but I just can't imagine what for the moment...

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4 hours ago, hertolo said:

They will find something for sure, but I just can't imagine what for the moment...

Moving to another plane on a spaceship in cryosleep, I imagine. Although it's both predictable and too exciting for this show that always only wants senseless violence and shock value deaths, not sci-fi.

Edited by CooperTV.
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I could not get past Octavia's red forehead. It was so distracting.

 

Other than that I enjoyed the cat and mouse between the two groups and Bellamy is looking mighty fine. 

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On 16. 5. 2018 at 9:51 PM, CooperTV said:

And then, when Kane says "No, I'm not fighting anymore, you're crazy, Octavia" she decides to kill him herself. Such a benevolent sage leader, our Octavia, to force n innocent man into killing her cult buddies and punish him for his free thinking. I mean, I don't care about Kane much because he's too soft. But Octavia is a fascist tyrant at this point.

How she is a fascist tyrant when she is clearly never going against the crowd? The crowd is the democracy of the bunker. She may be the blood queen, but only as long as her decisions goes with the crowd. That´s why she has the universal support. Kane lost the crowd the first time, she did her best to give him a second chance, but his decision not fight put her into the worst position possible. Either she would broke the rules for him and lost the support of majority and that would most likely result in more fighting and her losing her title and head, or she had to enter the arena and make clear the rules are truly universal. 

And what was even Kane´s magical proposal? Let´s go back to lotery for the next culling? Honestly, if Abby is a drug addict now and stole some precious medicine she absolutely deserves to die. And she should die, because her addiction is a weak spot which endangeres everyone. She is maybe the best doctor they have, but I´m sure she is not the only one. 

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On 19.05.2018 at 12:26 AM, jane1978 said:

How she is a fascist tyrant when she is clearly never going against the crowd?

I have no desire to discuss Octavia Blake more than necessary. The optimal number of times for me to discuss her is zero, to be honest, but since she's now the center of The 100 plotting and the writing, I had to sometimes. But I already said everything I wanted to say, above.

Edited by CooperTV.
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On 5/18/2018 at 10:58 AM, Bobcatkitten said:

I could not get past Octavia's red forehead. It was so distracting.

 

I didn't love the way it looked, but I liked the idea of adapting the traditional Commander's makeup to look like blood, since she cemented herself as their leader when she refused to wear the old makeup and showed up with her face covered in blood (I also didn't love the sequence where she showed up with her face covered in blood). But good concept from the makeup department.

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