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S04.E17: Chapter Eighty-One 2018.04.20

7 minutes ago, Zap said:

This is a very interesting piece: https://www.neloukeramati.com/blog/why-michael-cordero-jr-is-still-very-much-alive

Random thought: could there be any chance Dennis actually was Michael?

I mean if Michael went undercover maybe he's been around in disguise throughout the last 2 seasons?

I don't think they're going to go with Michael having been in Blackface for four years. I mean, an older telenovela might have, but not here and now.

Apart from coming back from the dead, the heroine's mom suffering a serious illness and Michael's probable amnesia, the only telenovela trope we have left is probably a character going suddenly blind from a bump on the head. They've really covered nearly everything now.

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Oh right, didn't consider that part, yeah.. they wouldn't do that.

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I LOVED the season finale and can't wait for the next (final) season. As a child I cut my evening soap teeth on such gems as Falcon Crest, Dallas, Dynasty, etc, so I LOVE outrageous twists, and the soaps and telenovelas I've seen have also had people coming back from the dead and loooong drawn out love triangles, so I have faith in the showrunner and the writers to see this through to a satisfying ending. I just love this show so darned much!

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17 hours ago, stagmania said:

I know this is a telenovela and this was always a possibility, but I really hate that they did this. Everything about this aspect of the story - Michael’s death, the aftermath, Jane’s grief and healing process and slow path to renewed happiness- was so well done, and the emotions underlying it always felt true and complicated and earned. This just feels like they have shit all over that. 

I agree with this, but I also think we may all end up feeling like the season 3 death was really the death of the guy Jane fell in love with when she was a young woman. Regardless of whether this is the return of the real Michael or not, no way will this guy or his relationship with Jane be the same. You’re not “dead” for five years and go back to who you were or your same life. I actually like this twist because it’s very telenovela and also creates some great drama for the last season. But I do fear it’s going to end up pissing off the major Michael stans even more. 

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I know this is a telenovela and this was always a possibility, but I really hate that they did this. Everything about this aspect of the story - Michael’s death, the aftermath, Jane’s grief and healing process and slow path to renewed happiness- was so well done, and the emotions underlying it always felt true and complicated and earned. This just feels like they have shit all over that. 

Yes. I'm really not happy with this development, despite how much I adored Michael. I just don't see how this works if this really is him -- having him have had amnesia just seems like a terribly cruel thing to do to both of them. Having him knowingly stay away is even worse. And having them not be in love going forward (because despite my preference for Michael, I've always expected Rafael to be end-game) seems like such a sad, depressing way to end their relationship.

The show hasn't been the same for me since Michael was killed, but this doesn't make it better.

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5 hours ago, Zap said:

This is a very interesting piece: https://www.neloukeramati.com/blog/why-michael-cordero-jr-is-still-very-much-alive

Random thought: could there be any chance Dennis actually was Michael?

I mean if Michael went undercover maybe he's been around in disguise throughout the last 2 seasons?

But Dennis is an actual person. He was Michael's friend and also a cop. We have seen both of them together before. So unless Dennis died and Michael took his face, no. 

 

About the episode, it was amazing. I loved every second of it. God it is such a good show. I will really miss it when it ends.

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7 hours ago, Joana said:

You should certainly watch it because there are some genuinely good/funny/heartwarming moments, especially in the second half of S4 (in particular, Petra and Jane share some truly fantastic scenes), but in terms of character or plot development, I don't think you've really missed all that much. If you watched this episode, you've noticed that Petra is now in a relationship with a woman, and that's probably the most unexpected thing that's happened since mid-S3. 

Don’t really agree with this - there has been a ton of development, particularly in the family structures. Petra, Rafael and Jane went through a lot as a unit, as you alluded to, as did the Villanueva women. And Jane and Raf had a lot going on in their personal relationship too, moving from co-parents to best friends to lovers to a committed relationship while Jane worked through her grief and moved on. 

2 hours ago, LaughingOne said:

I agree with this, but I also think we may all end up feeling like the season 3 death was really the death of the guy Jane fell in love with when she was a young woman. Regardless of whether this is the return of the real Michael or not, no way will this guy or his relationship with Jane be the same. You’re not “dead” for five years and go back to who you were or your same life. I actually like this twist because it’s very telenovela and also creates some great drama for the last season. But I do fear it’s going to end up pissing off the major Michael stans even more. 

 

28 minutes ago, beadgirl said:

Yes. I'm really not happy with this development, despite how much I adored Michael. I just don't see how this works if this really is him -- having him have had amnesia just seems like a terribly cruel thing to do to both of them. Having him knowingly stay away is even worse. And having them not be in love going forward (because despite my preference for Michael, I've always expected Rafael to be end-game) seems like such a sad, depressing way to end their relationship.

This is the thing - I saw Michael die. It was the real Michael, taking his exam with his lunchbox after saying goodbye to Jane at their home. I saw him collapse and then I saw Jane do the same. I saw her rage and cry and grieve and figure out how to be happy again. To tell me that it wasn’t real, that it was some clone whose heart gave out, or Michael had his body switched and left Jane alone to cope, or whatever other explanation they can dream up, it just doesn’t work. It’s not a fun surprise to undercut all that amazing character work. 

The thing I’ve always loved about JtV is that while it plays with telenovela tropes, it takes its characters seriously and treats them with respect. This feels like a misstep on that front.  

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I was really ready to give up on this show. Once Michael died, a lot of the joy left the show for me. Now he’s back. They’ve sucked me back in for one more (final?) season but I think I’m just going to be disappointed in the end.

Love the cast’s reaction. So glad they captured that. 

And I agree with the poster up thread, Jane is totally pregnant with Raf’s baby. 

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4 minutes ago, UGAmp said:

And I agree with the poster up thread, Jane is totally pregnant with Raf’s baby. 

I thought Raf couldn't have children because of his earlier bout with cancer. That's why it was such a big deal when Jane got accidentally inseminated and then later when Petra got herself inseminated with the last of Raf's sample.

Jane doesn't need to be pregnant in order to make things more difficult for her. She has spent the past five years grieving and mourning Michael, and finally letting herself move onto a new life with Raf, the father of her child. She was emotionally prepared to say yes to lifelong commitment with Raf.

The bigger twist would be if Jane and Michael got back together and then she got pregnant, but then she still felt the pull to be with Raf.

Not that I would personally want that. I rather have Jane and Michael reunite and be happy. Not that I will ever get what I want.

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I loved Alba and Mateo the Elder's little backstory, especially when it culminated during her speech - I teared up a little! And I'm dead inside! I guess I'm one of the few who actually liked the twist? Maybe it helps that I'm not emotionally invested in either coupling, I'm just in it for the story, wherever it goes. Michael's reveal genuinely shocked me, and now I'm really anticipating next season for everyone's reactions. I'm also dying to know who the real blackmailer is! Can it be next year already? Then again, I also don't want this show to end!

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2 hours ago, nilyank said:

I thought Raf couldn't have children because of his earlier bout with cancer. That's why it was such a big deal when Jane got accidentally inseminated and then later when Petra got herself inseminated with the last of Raf's sample.

It was definitely presented as unlikely but I don't think they ever said 100% impossible. In season 2, when he decided to try "sex and no babies" instead of "no sex and 3 babies" he was doubling up on birth control by using condoms and insisting the woman use something too so I assume he at least still thought it was remotely possible.

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12 hours ago, stagmania said:

This is the thing - I saw Michael die. It was the real Michael, taking his exam with his lunchbox after saying goodbye to Jane at their home. I saw him collapse and then I saw Jane do the same.

But you saw all of that in an episode where the audience was told at least 50 different times that what we saw happening was not to be believed. It was made very, very clear in that episode that Michael would be back. This isn't a shocking twist, just the inevitable next step that was clearly sign-posted when Michael left the show.

It's also worth remembering that the same episode where Michael 'died' is the one where Luisa introduced her new girlfriend to Rafael who immediately said he'd want her to take a range of medical tests to be sure she wasn't Rose in disguise. Raf would 100% have done his due diligence to make sure Michael is Michael and not someone disguised as him before bringing him back to Jane. He's too intelligent and careful a man to not have considered all of the ways Rose might be messing with him.

I do think this is Michael and obviously that will cause a lot of turmoil for Jane. But I think that ultimately she will end up with Rafael. She loves him now at least as much as she did Michael and he is Matteo's father. If I loved two men equally and one of the men was my child's father, I would stay with my child's father. It's also possible that an amnesiac Michael has formed a relationship with someone else, he may even have started a family in the 4-5 years he's now been gone.

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13 minutes ago, AllyB said:

But you saw all of that in an episode where the audience was told at least 50 different times that what we saw happening was not to be believed. It was made very, very clear in that episode that Michael would be back. This isn't a shocking twist, just the inevitable next step that was clearly sign-posted when Michael left the show.

It's also worth remembering that the same episode where Michael 'died' is the one where Luisa introduced her new girlfriend to Rafael who immediately said he'd want her to take a range of medical tests to be sure she wasn't Rose in disguise. Raf would 100% have done his due diligence to make sure Michael is Michael and not someone disguised as him before bringing him back to Jane. He's too intelligent and careful a man to not have considered all of the ways Rose might be messing with him.

I do think this is Michael and obviously that will cause a lot of turmoil for Jane. But I think that ultimately she will end up with Rafael. She loves him now at least as much as she did Michael and he is Matteo's father. If I loved two men equally and one of the men was my child's father, I would stay with my child's father. It's also possible that an amnesiac Michael has formed a relationship with someone else, he may even have started a family in the 4-5 years he's now been gone.

Rafael also didn't discover that Luisa's girlfriend is Rose though, I think Rose could easily manipulate someone this time too.

It's a good point about all of the signals but funnily, I forgot about it all. Still, while there's slightly too much telenovela vibe in Michael's comeback for me too, I don't agree that it undermines the aftermath of Michael's fake death. The grief, the healing, and everything in-between was still real for the characters.

I know that such factors don't always matter all that much when it comes to relationships, but I can see some more reasons for her to choose Rafael, if she loves them equally. I actually think they've been through more and they became extremely good friends, and showed that they support each other unconditionally. Nobody supported Jane's writing as much as Rafael, he talked her through her panic when she was about to kiss Dennis, she (eventually) pushed him to be with Petra, supported him after his car "accident." They were there for each other all the time for the past five years, which were difficult for both. This wouldn't necessarily be crucial for everyone, but I think it might be for Jane. One of the things that pushed her back to Michael before, IIRC, was that Rafael belonged to a different world, and she felt connected to Michael by memories, things they liked together, etc. Now, Jane and Rafael worked hard to build a bridge between their worlds and I'm not sure if Michael can fit.

Another thing is that Rafael repeatedly showed that he's all about family. Sometimes, he may not show it in the best possible way (he had bad role models though), but it's fairly obvious that there's nothing he'd put before Jane or Mateo. Michael, in my opinion, is a different kind of guy, which isn't necessarily bad but it's potentially risky. During his first life on the show, he was slightly more obsessed with Jane than with his work, but he still wouldn't give up the latter, no matter how much danger it would put him and everyone around in. I know that Rose is a psycho and nobody but her is to be blamed for that, but I also believe Jane's life would be much easier if Michael didn't become so obsessed with her, which was more than just work. On one hand, the mission is kind of cool, but it's not the kind of mission I would like to be married to, if I was raising a kid and I'd already been through so much. 

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8 hours ago, pinkglove said:

Rafael also didn't discover that Luisa's girlfriend is Rose though, I think Rose could easily manipulate someone this time too.

The only reason he didn't discover that she was really Rose is because they had the real Eileen there to give her dna. That means that they'd have to have the real Michael available to fool them with a fake one. Raf has also been shown to be someone who is smart and learns from previous mistakes. If this is a fake Michael that will be very poor writing on every level. Raf has grown into someone who does the things that you always wish soap characters would do when faced with villains. He would also be so, so desperate for this not to be Michael that he will have thought of every way to make it not be so.

8 hours ago, pinkglove said:

It's a good point about all of the signals but funnily, I forgot about it all.

That was exactly what chapter 54 told you would happen. They literally repeated over and over again that what was happening wasn't real. Told us over and over again that memory is faulty and we'd only remember 'flashbulb moments.' Teased us about death only being finite if we believed it was. Told us that strong emotions would make us forget important details.

Then they "killed" Michael and made the emotional resonance from that so strong for over a year of episodes. Made us watch Jane grieve and grow and move on in a way that was so emotionally real. That most people completely forgot that all the important details that made it clear that Michael's death wasn't kosher. It was very, very clever.

As for the rest of your post, I agree completely. There are numerous reasons for Jane to choose Raf now rather than just having a child together. So unless Raf dies, Jane will end up with him. And that's not really that cruel to Michael. I'd rather have my wife move on while she thought I was dead and have to start over than actually be dead. He's in his early 30s, he has so much life ahead of him to find real love and family. He'll eventually (once he gets his memory back) be heartbroken that Jane has moved on but emotionally heartbroken beats his heart physically breaking and killing him.

Edited by AllyB.
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As a long-time daytime soap fan, in particular Days of Our Lives - where no one is really dead, I am interested to see where they go with Michael's return.

I have spent 4 years watching Rafael grow and mature into a man who finally feels he deserves to be with Jane and Matteo as a family. This last half season in particular has shown a lot of growth and the fact that he gave up building the hotel for an opportunity that was more realistic, in his wheelhouse and provided for the woman he loved and their child was a great example of that. Instead of chasing after a possible dream, he created a life that would allow the woman he loved to pursue hers. I loved watching them work together as a family to create the life they have now and I really don't want to see it end. This is a man who has constantly encouraged her to be brave.

From the moment Jane showed up at Raf's apartment and he was in that t-shirt, drinking whiskey, I knew Michael was coming back. Nothing else would have depressed him that much. I loved that instead of walking out, Jane went back and stayed with him. I love that instead of lying or hiding, he brought Michael back to Jane, no matter how much it is killing him. Do I think a miracle baby may come out of that last lovemaking session - maybe. Or maybe they'll do another soap trope and Jane, overwhelmed with nostalgia and memories of her marriage sleeps with Michael once more only to discover that she doesn't feel the same about him. Two months later - she's pregnant and everyone assumes it's Michael's because Raf's supposed to be sterile but maybe it's not.

Now, from a personal perspective, I was widowed 12 years ago at 32 and, as much as I loved my husband, I am not the same person I was when he died and I'm not sure if the woman I am now could be in the same relationship with him. I am still single but that is by choice. I work two jobs but I love them both and they give me the freedom to not only pay my bills but travel. I spend time being the best grandma I can be and love having my cats with me (he hated cats lol).

I have a point - I think a young widow has a majority of his/her life left ahead of them and the perspective is one of creating a whole new life. If Michael had lived, would Jane have finally written that first book or would she have been too busy with work, taking care of Mateo and any other children they had and helping Michael through law school and starting his practice that her own dreams slowly got moved to the side. It wouldn't be intentional but it happens a lot in the real world and I could see that happening with them. Yes, Michael inspired the book but without his death, that book may never have been written.

This long-winded post is from a four-year fan of the show who loves most episodes and, unpopular opinion I know, I just see something in the pairing of Rafael and Jane I just don't with her and Michael and it has been that way from the beginning for me. Michael was her first love and will always hold a special place in heart but I think that Rafael is her true love.

Edited by cmahorror.
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On 4/20/2018 at 9:32 PM, chocolatine said:

I hope Michael was unwittingly drugged to have a fake heart attack and abducted and forcibly held until now, because I can't reconcile Michael as someone who would fake his own death and put his wife and parents through so much pain. Even if the reason was to protect Jane and/or Mateo from something, the Michael we know would have found another way.

 

I'm thinking that this would pretty much have to be the case.  When Jane was talking to Rafael on the phone and brought up how Mateo was kidnapped by Rose, Rafael got this look on his face, so I'm assuming that that means that Rose had Michael drugged, then kidnapped him.  It'll probably turn out that at some point during the kidnapping he got amnesia (hit his head while trying to escape or the drugs used did something to his brain) so that'll be an entire thing next season. 

As for who JR shot, I'm guessing...Carl?  Maybe Raphael's brother?  It had to be someone that Petra would recognize and I can't remember if she ever saw Carl or not.  

I'm actually excited about Michael coming back.  I stopped watching the show about a month ago because I cannot stand Raphael and Jane as a couple and really didn't care for the majority of the plot lines post Michael's death.  With Michael back, I'm intrigued enough to give next season a try (or at the very least binge it on Netflix after the fact)

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5 hours ago, cmahorror said:

As a long-time daytime soap fan, in particular Days of Our Lives - where no one is really dead, I am interested to see where they go with Michael's return.

Ha, I can't count how many times characters came back from the dead on Days of Our Lives! I'm pretty sure that some of them "died" multiple times. Now if anyone on Jane the Virgin becomes possessed by the devil like Marlena, I might have some qualms (although the glowing green eyes were pretty amazing).

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo.
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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ha, I can't count how many times characters came back from the dead on Days of Our Lives! I'm pretty sure that some of them "died" multiple times.

The DiMeras alone probably have 40 deaths and resurrections but my favorite character, Jack Deveraux, had died three times including once when all his organs were donated lol.

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9 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

When Jane was talking to Rafael on the phone and brought up how Mateo was kidnapped by Rose, Rafael got this look on his face, so I'm assuming that that means that Rose had Michael drugged, then kidnapped him. 

He really did. I was 100% sure Michael was coming back in this episode once we saw depressed Rafael. Except for about 30 seconds after he made that face because it made me wonder if Rose told him that the baby they got back was not the real Matteo. But I figured that would be way, way too dark for this show and then Alba and Jane started joking about Raf being her brother, so I figured the writers were just playing with all the soap tropes before breaking out the tropiest of all.

But good catch that he made that face because of Rose's history of kidnapping indicating that Michael had also been kidnapped by Rose!

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I'm curious as to who was stalking Petra. We saw the open window several times so it had to factor in at some point. 

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Based on Michael's facial expression at the end, I am definitely thinking amnesia. His face had a mildly curious look to it, not the elation you'd expect if he'd been held against his will from seeing Jane for all these years, or even the combination of complex emotions (which I think Diers is capable of pulling off) if he had been coerced into leaving to protect Jane/ Mateo.

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Well an interview said there was an alternate take where he had a line.

Would it have been 'who are you?' 'Jane, at last!'... what?

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On April 23, 2018 at 11:49 AM, LisaM said:

I'm curious as to who was stalking Petra. We saw the open window several times so it had to factor in at some point. 

I think it's Milos!

I loved that episode! Everything. "Able", River being nice, Xo standing up for Ro, Raf and Jane going through the motion... Everything. I am probably naive or I don't know what, but I so did not see Michael there at the end. My first reaction was "Oh no, no, no, no, no, no". But  the writers have never disappointed me. I trust that they have something amazing in store for us in this last season. 

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Of everything that happened in this episode, the part I loved best was River constantly referring to Alba as Abla.   “Abla”. “No I’m not talking”. “No Abla is coming”. 

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On 4/23/2018 at 2:45 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ha, I can't count how many times characters came back from the dead on Days of Our Lives! I'm pretty sure that some of them "died" multiple times. Now if anyone on Jane the Virgin becomes possessed by the devil like Marlena, I might have some qualms (although the glowing green eyes were pretty amazing).

After the scene, I was suddenly reminded of the 80s movie, "Soap Dish."

"He doesn't have a head!"

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Doesn’t Michael have a brother we haven’t met? Or am I making that up? Perhaps this is his brother who is working with Rose and pretending to be him?

 

either way, I gasped really loudly at this twist. First time since Game of Thrones went on break, so well done!

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Michael had a brother who appeared on the show.  He was a bit of a bad guy when he first came on, but later on he worked at the Mirabella and seemed rather harmless.  I don't remember what happened to him.

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32 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

Michael had a brother who appeared on the show.  He was a bit of a bad guy when he first came on, but later on he worked at the Mirabella and seemed rather harmless.  I don't remember what happened to him.

Maybe he'll pop back up now that all of Jane's manuscripts are being combined into one cohesive story. I assume Matteo is reading Jane's manuscript in some form or another. Didn't they have the guy who died in episode one pop up in a flashback? What was his name? The guy Petra was cheating on Raf with, who ended up being (or having?) an evil twin. It wasn't a clip from a previous episode, so they brought the actor back. 

I'm going to head over to a speculation thread before I get too crazy. 

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HOW DID I SCREW UP MY TV SCHEDULE AND ONLY SEE THIS NOW!?! MICHAEL!!!!

Just...oh my god...Michael's death hurt my soul in ways few character deaths ever had before. I just need a little while to process all of this...

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Eeeeyyyyeeeuuuwwww...

I thought this was the last season, and that JaneRaf was endgame.

Michael, for me, belongs in the "Aidan"* book: perfect on paper (I guess), but never meant to be The One.

I don't want to watch the eps I'd saved now.  I guess I'll live in fanfic heaven instead.

Boo.

*Sex & the City

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On 2018-04-22 at 10:19 PM, cmahorror said:

As a long-time daytime soap fan, in particular Days of Our Lives - where no one is really dead, I am interested to see where they go with Michael's return.

I have spent 4 years watching Rafael grow and mature into a man who finally feels he deserves to be with Jane and Matteo as a family. This last half season in particular has shown a lot of growth and the fact that he gave up building the hotel for an opportunity that was more realistic, in his wheelhouse and provided for the woman he loved and their child was a great example of that. Instead of chasing after a possible dream, he created a life that would allow the woman he loved to pursue hers. I loved watching them work together as a family to create the life they have now and I really don't want to see it end. This is a man who has constantly encouraged her to be brave.

From the moment Jane showed up at Raf's apartment and he was in that t-shirt, drinking whiskey, I knew Michael was coming back. Nothing else would have depressed him that much. I loved that instead of walking out, Jane went back and stayed with him. I love that instead of lying or hiding, he brought Michael back to Jane, no matter how much it is killing him. Do I think a miracle baby may come out of that last lovemaking session - maybe. Or maybe they'll do another soap trope and Jane, overwhelmed with nostalgia and memories of her marriage sleeps with Michael once more only to discover that she doesn't feel the same about him. Two months later - she's pregnant and everyone assumes it's Michael's because Raf's supposed to be sterile but maybe it's not.

Now, from a personal perspective, I was widowed 12 years ago at 32 and, as much as I loved my husband, I am not the same person I was when he died and I'm not sure if the woman I am now could be in the same relationship with him. I am still single but that is by choice. I work two jobs but I love them both and they give me the freedom to not only pay my bills but travel. I spend time being the best grandma I can be and love having my cats with me (he hated cats lol).

I have a point - I think a young widow has a majority of his/her life left ahead of them and the perspective is one of creating a whole new life. If Michael had lived, would Jane have finally written that first book or would she have been too busy with work, taking care of Mateo and any other children they had and helping Michael through law school and starting his practice that her own dreams slowly got moved to the side. It wouldn't be intentional but it happens a lot in the real world and I could see that happening with them. Yes, Michael inspired the book but without his death, that book may never have been written.

This long-winded post is from a four-year fan of the show who loves most episodes and, unpopular opinion I know, I just see something in the pairing of Rafael and Jane I just don't with her and Michael and it has been that way from the beginning for me. Michael was her first love and will always hold a special place in heart but I think that Rafael is her true love.

Such a wonderful post! I was firmly on the Jane and Raf side at the beginning, then fell in love with the Michael & Jane pairing, then really felt for Jane and Ref again thru their slow evolution. Such a well done show, I love how it is firmly on the side of comedy yet the drama and romance hits me right in the heart. Your description of this journey captures that entirely. 

On 2018-04-23 at 7:08 AM, cmahorror said:

The DiMeras alone probably have 40 deaths and resurrections but my favorite character, Jack Deveraux, had died three times including once when all his organs were donated lol.

Ha ha  Jack was my favourite character too, I loved the original Jack and Jennifer too! Days of My Lives was a great soap opera to follow while staying home with my two young boys. Jane the Virgin does capture the insanity of completely impossible plots fantastically well.

On 2018-04-26 at 9:42 AM, Seelouis said:

Of everything that happened in this episode, the part I loved best was River constantly referring to Alba as Abla.   “Abla”. “No I’m not talking”. “No Abla is coming”. 

I really loved that, probably because I can never remember her name either. The cake was a hilarious touch.

 

So looking forward to the final season. This is one of the best TV shows that I've watched in a while. Nothing like what I expected it to be.

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I really didn’t like the finale. Michael is dead let’s leave it that way.

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As I have been Team Rafael from the get, I read what happened in the finale and I wasn't too psyched to watch. I finally watched it the other day. In a way, I'm glad I knew what the big cliffhanger was because I could watch the episode with that knowledge in mind. It was so sad how Rafael was cherishing what he thinks will be his last moments with Jane.

Since it's the last season, and overall, I do trust the writers, I will definitely keep watching. But it's a bummer that the final season won't be premiering until 2019!

Also, my theory is that it's not the real Michael. Based on not much, but I did read 

Spoiler

that Brett Dier was cast in a pilot (not sure if it got picked up) so I would think that he wouldn't be trying to be on a new show if he was going to be back on JtV for the full season! 

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On 4/20/2018 at 10:46 PM, stealinghome said:

I've watched the show on and off for a while, and while I generally preferred Jane/Michael to Jane/Rafael in the early seasons, my initial reaction is that I really don't like this twist. Michael's death was wrenching, but felt like it was the best possible way the show could have its cake and eat it too (having Jane/Rafael be endgame, which I think they've clearly been since Day One, but having Jane/Michael a couple that could have been endgame if life hadn't intervened). Now? If Michael is a face double or an amnesiac who never recovers his memories, it's cheap shock value. If he's faked his death for years without telling his wife and parents, he's a schmuck who doesn't deserve Jane. And if he's been held captive and Sin Rostro gave him to Rafael to get to Luisa, or he had amnesia and now he remembers his life, he and Jane will not be able to make it work and she'll still end up with Rafael, which pretty much sullies how well the show handled Jane/Michael while still building toward a Jane/Rafael endgame. Pretty much no way you cut it, this is not going to be a good move imo.

Plus the triangle just about sucked the life out of this show way back when, so returning to it is not a good move.

I agree. I agree. I agree. I agreeeee. On all counts.

I have always known, right from episode one, that Jane and Rafael are endgame. There was a very brief moment during season three, after Jane and Michael did marry and were so great together, that I thought "would they really change the course of this?" But it was a very brief moment, and then Michael died and while it pissed me off I thought that that was basically the best way to protect him and his relationship with Jane. If he didn't die, what could come next? Just destroying him and the memory (and marriage) of Jane and him to make way for Jane/Rafael.

And now? Well, if that's really him they have ruined him and his past relationship with Jane. There is no way to make him come out of this good.  Plus, the love triangle from hell was one of the absolute worst things this show ever did, it really does suck the life out of this show. So the last season doesn't look too promising to me, which is a pity because I thought season four was pretty good, surprisingly.

And all of this just so that Jane could choose Rafael in the end, without that "Rafael is second choice, they never would've gotten together if Michael hadn't died" hanging over their heads. Sigh.

On 4/20/2018 at 11:11 PM, JamieLynn832002 said:

I said then that that was my first thought when they showed the feet but I really hope they don't go there. I feel like even if it isn't actually Michael, someone with Michael's face being evil would damage his legacy. I didn't like Jane and Michael but Jane loved him and I'm really afraid  that whatever this is, it's going to ruin it.

Aaaaaand now I'm worrying that it's not really Michael, but someone with a Michael face. I mean, if Rose did get another chick to die in her place and she gave the other woman her face, I suppose it's possible. It would achieve the same "Jane chooses Rafael in the end so he is not second choice", I guess. There was something off about the guy, I thought. Like a lack of spark in his eyes when he saw Jane. Mmmm.

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On 4/23/2018 at 7:13 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

Based on Michael's facial expression at the end, I am definitely thinking amnesia. His face had a mildly curious look to it, not the elation you'd expect if he'd been held against his will from seeing Jane for all these years, or even the combination of complex emotions (which I think Diers is capable of pulling off) if he had been coerced into leaving to protect Jane/ Mateo.

Yeah, he didn't seem quite "right".

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So anyway, I caught up with this show on Netflix. I really enjoyed season four, which was a pleasant surprise. I thought season three was boring and repetitive, and I struggled with finishing it, but this one was very entertaining, I thought. I also liked all of the development they did with all the characters and relationships. It felt like halfway through the season the show knew that it will wrap up soon and now things have a point beyond just being repetitive about the same stuff over and over. I particularly enjoyed Jane and Petra's friendship reaching "I love you" levels. I thought Rafael and Jane were very well done too (ignoring Rafael's side trip to douche-land in the beginning of the season). I liked Petra and JR because they had chemistry, but wish their story had the chance for slower development. I did like, though, how JR ran to save Petra in spite of it all.

Now, things I liked less.

*I have no idea who the hell the blackmailer is, but I kind of wish it was Anezka or something. Had Petra kill anyone before? I don't remember. But I don't like the idea of her killing anyone, much less THIS Petra who has grown so much, and much less HER SISTER. I doubt it will be, though. Sigh.

*Can they at least pretend to care about Rafael being the twin's father and give them a damn plot? Or a plot with Mateo and the twins? Or SOMETHING? It's not that I like the twins that much (or Mateo, to be honest), but the show acts like Rafael's only family is Jane and Mateo and.... no. Yes, sure, we see him picking them up and dropping them off and whatever, but come on.

*I have no clue about who the blackmailer is. I'm really curious. I'm also very curious about how they will explain Michael, or "Michael" or whatever is going on. So they get points for that.

*And of course, like with every single show that features a writer in it, at the end they'll say the show we saw was the book Jane wrote, her big success book (since the first one flopped), right?

I'm glad that they know what the finish line will be so they can pull their act together. And I think five seasons is good, and the time is right to end it.

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11 hours ago, natyxg said:

*And of course, like with every single show that features a writer in it, at the end they'll say the show we saw was the book Jane wrote, her big success book (since the first one flopped), right?

I think Mateo wrote the book and is the narrator. But what do I know?! Just seems like a good reason to explain the focus on Mateo's family as the central unit.

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On 4/20/2018 at 9:23 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I feel bad for even admitting that I quit the show pretty much because they killed off Michael, but I found that the show lost its spark for me. I feel bad for even admitting that I'll be watching next season because of Michael as well. 

I'm with you, Lady C.  I think I watched one or two episodes after Michael "died," and then took JANE off my recording list.  For some reason I looked up the show today and found out about this.  I'll be watching again next year.  LOL. 

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I'm not sure how I feel about Michael coming back, but, Mateo grieved as well and I fear how his return will affect Mateo.

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I just caught up on all four seasons, and I am Team Michael, but I accepted Team Raphael for the most part. If Season 5 doesn't involve amnesia, I may eat my shorts.

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