Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

I just want to say, if "Unthinkable" turns out to be that Felicity is actually evil (DAMN YOU FAN SPECULATION FOR PUTTING THAT THOUGHT INTO MY HEAD because it really should be unthinkable) then I for one will need a lot of mint chocolate chip ice cream. Mixed with Godiva liquor. A lot of it.

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21 minutes ago

 

I just want to say, if "Unthinkable" turns out to be that Felicity is actually evil (DAMN YOU FAN SPECULATION FOR PUTTING THAT THOUGHT INTO MY HEAD because it really should be unthinkable) then I for one will need a lot of mint chocolate chip ice cream. Mixed with Godiva liquor. A lot of it.

 

I see you've been wandering in the same places I have.  Really though, the idea is absurd IMO.  I simply wouldn't believe it based on what we've seen each episode.  There is no hint of corruption or deception in Felicity and no reason to think she's being blackmailed or anything like that.  Top it off with that pic of Slade holding the blade to her throat and no, I just don't see it.  It IS unthinkable but more than that, it is unsupported and unbelievable. 

 

Breath, just breath. 

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Are we having a mint chip ice cream party here? I want in! I'm pretty much the only one in my family who eats it 'cause they're a bunch of yogurt-lovers.

 

 

I just want to say, if "Unthinkable" turns out to be that Felicity is actually evil (DAMN YOU FAN SPECULATION FOR PUTTING THAT THOUGHT INTO MY HEAD because it really should be unthinkable)

 

Inconceivable! What kind of far-fetched fan speculation is that? Where have you been hanging around, quarks? Seriously, relax. Any sane person who's seen the show would never peg Felicity to be any kind of evil mastermind--not that she couldn't. She totally can vie for world domination if she wanted. I mean, super intelligent, masterful with WiFi and tech, likes to blow stuff up, is very handy with vans... Yep, she'd be great at it!

 

But Felicity has always been about justice, saving people, and trying to do her best to be a hero/help other heroes. To suddenly make her "teh evil" would be an unforgiveable retcon of the highest order that would result in my setting fire to everything that the writers know and love.

Edited by SleepDeprived.

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Basically it's a theory that blames Felicity for Slade finding the lair and knowing about the cure and putting a wedge between Oliver and him mom when she told him about Thea.  Basically anything that Slade did that was clever the idea attributed it to insider knowledge from Felicity. It went so far as to blame her for Queen Consolidated going to Isabel since Felicity is the one that made sure that Olive was at the board meeting. 

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Oh, BkWurm1. That's freaking hilarious! I mean, I'm sure somebody really put some sort of thought about the title of the episode being "Unthinkable" and clearly ran a whole marathon with it. But, really, that is some kind of ass-backwards Machiavellian theory!

 

I appreciate their effort at trying to think critically, I guess? But that speculation does a mind-boggling disservice to how Felicity has been developed onscreen. As well as Slade's masterplan that he's been planning for five/six years.

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That theory isn't as crazy as the "Robert is Felicity's father" one-- and it could work. Maybe Slade was blackmailing Felicity with information about her father? She was the one shown during the "corrupt those he loves" scene. I don't think Felicity is evil (and I really don't subscribe to this theory)- but they could make it work. Felicity did have that strange posture in 2x18 didn't she? I really do dislike this theory- and it feels like a way to justify some of the fandom's dislike for Felicity?

 

My current crack theory is that Malcolm is Felicity's father. Felicity has been worried about Thea an awful lot lately ("It's Thea", telling Oliver to go save Thea, telling Oliver to stay and work things out with Thea). Malcolm also said "You still have a father, you still have _______". It could explain her posture, and how weird she's been acting? She has this information, and it's big, and she doesn't want to keep secrets from Oliver- but as we have seen Felicity doesn't really consider her problems important? So she's not going to make them worry about her when there are other, bigger things going on. 

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It wouldn't shock me if they did something to damage the Felicity/Oliver bond to bring him closer to Laurel. Not in the next episode, but down the track. I vaguely remember on Smallville that Chloe was shown to be working with Lionel Luthor and Clark got all pissy with her for her betrayal. Their bond wasn't the same after that and Chloe had to grovel - not sure how long it went on. Meanwhile, Lana was likely pinky clean throughout.  I'm probably remembering it wrong, but what the CW would do for melodrama wouldn't surprise me. Maybe Felicity will be manipulated by one of her parents or something at a time when Oliver has been ignoring her.

Edited by insubordination.

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Do you mind if we take this to the speculation thread? I don't want to accidentally spoil anyone if, heaven forbid, any of this turns out to be true? (And if it does, there will be hell to pay, Arrow writers. Fire and brimstone shall rain on your heads.)

 

Can someone break down this whole theory over at the spec thread for me, please? This is the first time I've ever heard of it. Just so I can actually try to discern if there is any semblance of logic there.

 

ETA: Never mind, guys. I think I've found this theory of Felicity maybe being evil/in on it with Slade. And I have no thoughts about it. Only maniacal laughter. ;)

Edited by SleepDeprived.

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Wow, I heard recent stuff like Felicity was hiding a secret in 222 and that why she kept touching her head and was crying before Oliver started talking. Stupid me, i wasbwondering if Felicity had a concussion or something because of the accident, nope she's secretly evil and working for Slade.

In fact it's all one long con, Isabel telling Dig she wanted to put a bullet in Felicity's head just a way to divert attention, Felicity working with Star Labs to make a cure, a way to give Oliver false hope. Felicity running Isabel over with a truck...totally staged she knew Isabel would be OK. Felicity giving Oliver the hero speech, just getting him back in the game, so Slade could torture him some more.

In fact Felicity has been working for Slade the whole time, remember her fear of Kangaroos? Totally code for Slade.

Edited by Morrigan2575.

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Honestly, if the writers made Felicity one of Slade's allies, it would be tantamount to burning this whole show down, in my view. I know I'd stop watching, and I imagine other people would too.

 

It would also, frankly, be utterly unbelievable and beyond credulity, given every tiny thing we know about Felicity Smoak and who she is. There's clever writing, with a twist, and then there's just imbecility. And I think it's more about certain people wanting Felicity to no longer be around, who are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 593.

 

But this is one of the problems with the show. The producers have been so nebulous, and their interviews have so often seem to contradict what actually appears on screen, that it's hard to figure out what they're thinking.

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Felicity did have that strange posture in 2x18 didn't she?

HighHopes, can you elaborate on this a little?  I don't understand the reference.

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As far as I can tell, the "Felicity is actually evil/working for Slade" theory is pure speculation - there's no spoilers involved. It basically goes like this:

 

1. Slade said he would corrupt Felicity during the voiceover.

 

2. Isabel seemed normal too, and even had that sort of nice moment at the Christmas party, and was all supportive and helpful when Thea was captured, so you can't go by appearances.

 

3. Diggle made that "I don't think there's a force on earth that could make you evil, Felicity," comment which is totally foreshadowing/heavy thump brick, and she looked a bit uneasy. There's been a few other moments where her posture could be interpreted as uneasy.

 

4. Slade found the Foundry.  (Total aside: I think this one is meaningless - we've had absolutely no indications within the show that anyone has been hiding their trips back and forth to the club, and really, only Roy and Sara have excuses to be there on a daily basis because they work there.  Oliver does own the club (or did own the club) but as far as I could tell he wasn't managing it on a daily basis, and there's really no reason for Felicity to be there other than wanting a drink. I'd imagine that anyone that knew Oliver was the Arrow - and Slade and Isabel did - would have no problems finding the Arrow Cave. I'm bringing this up because this has always been one of the silliest parts of the show anyway, and to see it used as a basis for anything cracks me up.)

 

5. Slade hacked Team Arrow's phones and Felicity "didn't notice," but since she's some sort of tech genius of course she did and her only reason for not saying anything was so that Slade would know Team Arrow's plans.

 

6. We don't know anything about Felicity's background really except she's from Vegas and, well, Vegas!  (See, show? If Felicity isn't evil, this is the problem with not giving her a backstory!)

 

7. She looked and sounded very guilty in the Clocktower before the major speech to Oliver and the hug.  I thought she just looked like she was in pain and really needed to have a doctor check out that head injury because she was knocked out, and when I was knocked out during a car crash it turned out I had a concussion and needed to spend two horrible nights in the hospital for "observation" which actually means "misery" so I was projecting a bit.  This is also why I was kinda saying, "UM, STOP JIGGLING AROUND HER HEAD," because after my accident the paramedics went to great lengths to keep my head as still as possible. Then I remembered that everyone on this show just forgets about their major injuries by the next episode so I stopped worrying.

 

8. The show has been talking so much about her light and all that, so, clearly, she's evil!  Plus, this show!  We all know how it loves to set up expectations and confound them!

 

9. Unthinkable!

 

I don't see it, but I don't mind admitting here in the privacy of the internet that I'm going to be stocked up on mint chocolate chip ice cream on Wednesday. You guys won't tell, right?

Edited by quarks.

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That's pretty much the sum total of the speculation. Frankly I think the more obvious set up is that Felicity is going to be forced to kill someone in the finale to savw Oliver or another character and that's going to take a toll on her personality and her relationship with Oliver and Team Arrow.

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Felicity did have that strange posture in 2x18 didn't she?

 

HighHopes, can you elaborate on this a little?  I don't understand the reference.

 

Oh for sure!! People noticed that in the foundry scenes, Felicity's posture was sort of hunched over a lot? She was holding her shoulder and kind of curling up into herself almost. Here's two caps that sort of show it: one, two. Also, I can't find it- but the scene where she tells Oliver to go save Thea she's leaning against the desk and her arms are folded over her chest too (I think?). 

 

It may be absolutely nothing, but it was strange and it sticked out to some, and paired with the clock tower scene in the previous episode it could mean that something else is bothering her? 

 

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OR Slade makes Felicity choose between Laurel and Oliver. She chooses Oliver. Felicity corrupted. Boom! Ok .. It's still wishful thinking on my part.

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Oh for sure!! People noticed that in the foundry scenes, Felicity's posture was sort of hunched over a lot? She was holding her shoulder and kind of curling up into herself almost. Here's two caps that sort of show it: one, two. Also, I can't find it- but the scene where she tells Oliver to go save Thea she's leaning against the desk and her arms are folded over her chest too (I think?). 

 

It may be absolutely nothing, but it was strange and it sticked out to some, and paired with the clock tower scene in the previous episode it could mean that something else is bothering her? 

 

I think her body language in those pics could be attributed to the fact that she was stressed out. She clearly cares about Oliver and knows how much he loves Thea. She went through thousands of pics just to find that one shot of the license plate outside of Verdant. I think she really just wanted them to find her and was upset that they couldn't.

 

As for the clocktower, I thought it was fairly obvious that she was acting strange because she'd just been in an accident and had taken a fairly substantial blow to the head and finally had a moment where the adrenaline was wearing off and she was starting to feel it. Shame on Digg and Oliver for not asking her if she was okay during that scene, btw. Especially Oliver, although I suppose he can only be so aware of Felicity's suffering when he's wading through his own sea of manpain.

 

Felicity working for Slade would be the worst kind of surprise this show could cook up. It would make zero sense. I guess I'll prepare myself for it in that case. :)

Edited by apinknightmare.

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Yeah, I always just assumed her body language in 218 was either internalizing her emotions or trying to comfort herself because she was worried/scared.

I remember big speculation after the episode was that Felicity was sick, dying, suffering some mental affects. People used those photos to link Felicity to Ivo's daughter saying she was starting to suffer the same mental breakdown as Ivo's wife.

I remember the speculation got so detailed that they even tried to link Felicity getting beat by the Clock King in 214 and losing Shrapnel in 210 as signs that her mental faculties were slipping.

Generally I think fans just put more thought into the show then the writers. LOL

Edited by Morrigan2575.

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Thanks, HighHopes for the info!  I agree with the posters above me; I didn't take anything special from those scenes other than she was stressed and upset because she was in stressful situations. 

 

I think I'm glad I missed some of that spec that Morrigan2575 mentioned.  Fans sure are creative, that's for sure, but I guess I'm just not willing to ascribe Machiavellian motives to everything every character does or secret reasons for every move they make, 'cause that would just get exhausting after a while.  Especially since the writers will just pull stuff out of their butts to get to where the want the plot to go anyway.

 

Yay for TVLine recognizing Emily, that's awesome!  I thought she was really fantastic last ep, it's great to see her get some recognition.

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I think Felicity working for Slade theory if it comes true would ruin the show for me. It makes no sense and no amount of retconning would make me believe it. I will always think it is a way to make Laurel look good and that would just drive me away from the show even more. 

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In Three Ghosts, Slade's BIG monologue- they showed felicity (corrupt those he loves), Quentin/Roy for those who follow and want to be like him (or something). By now, Blood/Slade directly or indirectly have targeted Quentin/Roy and had put both out of commission for awhile. Felicity is the only one left.

Anyone remember who they showed in the second round of that monologue?

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Anyone remember who they showed in the second round of that monologue?

 

I don't remember who exactly was in it - but I do remember that Felicity wasn't.

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Felicity was absolutely in that monoiogue/montage. They show Felicity when he says "I will corrupt those he loves"

 

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Felicity was absolutely in that monoiogue/montage. They show Felicity when he says "I will corrupt those he loves"

 

 

She was in THAT version. There was a second version (that was a promo before the show returned from a break, I think), and she wasn't in that one - I think that's the one GirlWednesday is asking about.

 

ETA: Isn't this it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEZQUcjG6AY&feature=youtu.be

Edited by apinknightmare.

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I guess I'm not understanding the issue. I have the episode still on DVR which has that montage I linked above.  It's not a promo it's from the aired episode.

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Ok - it was the Arrow season 2.5 trailer from CW that I was thinking of ( for round two) where during Slade's monologue they show Sara (rip away), Quentin/Roy/Diggle (follow), corrupt (Thea/Laurel/ maybe Moira).

You guys beat me to it. I'm trying to score Slade's promise against what has happened.

Thea corrupted then. Quentin/Roy - not really destroyed, just out of commission. Sarah rip away still to come? Felicity - corrupt.

Oh I forgot laurel - well she corrupted the lair.

Edited by GirlWednesday.

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I'm pretty sure Moira wasn't in it because she's already been corrupted.

 

I don't remember if Thea was there or not but I know Laurel wasI guess the CW promo department just loves her..  Since Felicity had been getting less and less airtime, it freaked me out because I thought Laurel was going to be replacing Felicity in terms of who touches/is touched by Oliver.

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I'm not sure I would rely on the CW promo monkeys to try and glean anything meaningful.  I've seen things in promos and previouslies that never aired.

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So I guess back to the original theories of Felicity being corrupted then.

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I guess I'm not understanding the issue. I have the episode still on DVR which has that montage I linked above.  It's not a promo it's from the aired episode.

 

There isn't an issue. The poster just asked who was in the promo with the Slade monologue.

 

For the record - I don't think anyone's presence or absence in the promo means anything either. I'm not entirely sure that the people who put them together even know what's going to happen in the show.

Edited by apinknightmare.

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If we are talking about Corrupt then Thea will fill in that role. She no longer believes anything her brother says. Felicity was in the first monologue but they changed their minds because she wasn't on the second one that was release during the break. 

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So I guess back to the original theories of Felicity being corrupted then.

 

If Felicity is indeed someone he's going to corrupt, he's not going to corrupt her by getting her to actively work against Oliver, he's going to try to corrupt her by shaking her faith in him. As the last episode (and several previous episodes) showed, Felicity is steady in her belief that Oliver is a hero, and Oliver values that and relies on it probably more than he realizes. I think it's one of the guiding forces in his path to becoming a better person/better Arrow.

 

Maybe Slade will try to do that by kidnapping her and putting her in some kind of situation where either a) she'll be led to believe that he won't come and get her or b) she'll be led to believe that he'll think something else is more important than coming for her. Or some other kind of twisted thing that my mind can't quite imagine at this time of night, like, I really hope this doesn't happen - revealing a secret that Oliver's been keeping from her. He already did that with Thea, but...I don't know.

 

Show, please don't do that.

Edited by apinknightmare.

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There isn't a speculation without spoilers thread so I'll put this here:

 

In the season 1 finale, Sacrifice, there were a number of characters who sacrificed other than Oliver.  Tommy sacrificed his life to save Laurel; Moira sacrificed her freedom and her reputation to go public on The Undertaking; Diggle sacrified getting hurt for Oliver and to stop the Undertaking; Quentin sacrificed safety to try to defuse the earthquake machine; Felicity risked herself to stay and help him; Thea sacrificed to try to get Roy out of the Glades;even Laurel sacrificed (in the EPs eyes) her safety to gather together the files so she could prosecute the criminals.

 

Could there be multiple 'Unthinkable's in this season's finale?

 

BkWurm (I think) has suggested that Felicity does the unthinkable for someone who has always been against killing and kills someone.  Maybe Sara does the unthinkable and promises to go back to the LoA  in order to get their help to saving Starling City.  Diggle could do something against his moral code when he takes on ARGUS.

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Here's a place to post about the direction you hope the show will go, and also what you're afraid they're going to do moving forward. Any gripes about seasons 1 & 2 belong in the Target Practice thread. This is a no spoiler area, just hopes and fears, therefore, please tag any comic talk or spoilers in this thread.

 

We're going to go ahead and combine the Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island with the Speculations WITHOUT Spoilers. Essentially, these are the same topic. Hopefully, this will help everyone when deciding where to post!

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If we are talking about Corrupt then Thea will fill in that role. She no longer believes anything her brother says. Felicity was in the first monologue but they changed their minds because she wasn't on the second one that was release during the break.

The monologue at the end of 2.09 was done by the director with (I'm assuming) knowledge of what the 2nd half entailed.

The 2.5 promo was done by the CW it was not conducted by the EPs or anyone affiliated with the show, it used scenes from 214-218. I would not look at anything put out by the CW as some sort of clue of the show's direction.

Going back to 209, both the Quentin and Roy aspects have been played out, we've seen Roy be destroyed by the Mirakuru and Quentin lose his job / go to jail. Obviously, neither was done directly by Slade but in I have to assume that their storylines were tied to the monologue, since there really wouldn't have been any real need/reason for these events otherwise.

I'm not sure how they're going to pull this off with Felicity in the series finale but I'd be really disappointed if they didn't attempt to fulfill the Felicity part of the monologue after they did the other two prongs. Granted, I actually expected Slade's monologue to set up this really elaborate story where Slade would play mastermind, pulling all these strings over several episodes. Instead we get 7 filler episodes (210-217) and the Slade stuff doesn't really pick back up until 218.

Edited by Morrigan2575.

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That is what I was trying to figure out, now that we are at the finale. Was that monologue foreshadowing or Slade just twirling his evil moustache and the EPs just teasing with no consequence.

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Good question and if it is foreshadowing can we just concentrate on the love part?

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Yes. Let's pretend LL scenes did not happen.

Latest theory from the fellows here is that Felicity finds out about her father. Slade uses it against her somehow. Last scene, she leaves to find her father. Not corrupted but loyalty divided. Close enough.

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I think something will happen to send Team Arrow member away from each other during the hiatus. Maybe Oliver stays in Starling City and it's Felicity and Diggle who leave him. Maybe we won't even find that out until next season sine last year we didn't have a cliff hanger, just a surprise twist and Tommy's death. I don't remember, were there other characters left in peril that we had to worry about over the summer?

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Sally. It was a nerve wracking summer, real nail biter, not knowing what survived from the foundry.

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If Slade is as smart as I think he is, he's going to want to separate them before the end anyway. He needs Oliver alone and desperate before he puts an arrow through his eye, which seems to be his end game. But it won't just be enough for Oliver to be alone. He needs to be aware (if not see) his friends have been tortured, killed, or whatever else Slade plans to do to them. Now it depends on how original he plans to be. He may kidnap Felicity, Laurel and Sara, or at least Felicity and Laurel and make Oliver choose between them, or he may do something like the Joker did in Dark Knight. As for the corruption angle, I'd wager Slade plans to have Felicity (the most innocent among them) need to something horrible to survive or to save Oliver. Ultimately. whatever he believes will cause Oliver the greatest amount of pain is what Slade is going to do.

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I don't think that there is time left this season to corrupt Felicity.    Slade may try to corrupt her and fail, or he may force her to do something that she would have refused to do before, but with only one episode left, I don't think he can truly corrupt her light.

 

I don't know if this post of mine got lost in the creation of this thread or if no one wants to play but in case it's the former, I'm going to re-post it:

In the season 1 finale, Sacrifice, there were a number of characters who sacrificed other than Oliver.  Tommy sacrificed his life to save Laurel; Moira sacrificed her freedom and her reputation to go public on The Undertaking; Diggle sacrified getting hurt for Oliver and to stop the Undertaking; Quentin sacrificed safety to try to defuse the earthquake machine; Felicity risked herself to stay and help him; Thea sacrificed to try to get Roy out of the Glades;even Laurel sacrificed (in the EPs eyes) her safety to gather together the files so she could prosecute the criminals.

Could there be multiple 'Unthinkable's in this season's finale?

BkWurm (I think) has suggested that Felicity does the unthinkable for someone who has always been against killing and kills someone.  Maybe Sara does the unthinkable and promises to go back to the LoA  in order to get their help to saving Starling City.  Diggle could do something against his moral code when he takes on ARGUS.

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Diggle's unthinkable could be siding with Deadshot against Lyla? Or did he blatantly do that in suicide squad? I remember closing scenes with Lyla/Digg to be more agreeing to disagree type of impasse but being together anyway.

Felicity killing someone would haunt her. If they give Slade the cure and Oliver still can't take the shot because he is so dejected/broken and wants to believe that Slade can be redeemed. If Felicity (GOD I Hope not Laurel) delivers the killing blow to protect Oliver like Giles killing Ben/Glory. That's unthinkable. I would prefer Digg to do that errand but he will be with argus.

Edited by GirlWednesday.

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Thea willingly going with Malcom is unthinkable.

 

Someone has suggested that Oliver's unthinkable act would be to take the mirakuru himself. 

 

Roy could push Thea away when/if she turns to him. 

 

Slade could get the cure and end up not having a memory of anything that he has done only to find out that HE has done the unthinkable and as such dishonored Shado's memory.

 

Nyssa does the unthinkable by defying once again her father.  Sare does the unthinkable by falling back in love with an assassin.

 

We already have Detective Lance doing the one time unthinkable thing of directly siding and working with the Arrow. 

 

Waller is planning on doing the unthinkable.

 

The army of Strokes get the cure and break out into show tunes.  Maybe that is more unwatchable than unthinkable. 

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The army of Strokes get the cure and break out into show tunes.  

Choreographed and led by Malcolm Merlyn, brought to you by Mel Brooks.

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Well since the writers seem to love Whedonverse and Whedon-logic, we might just get a musicale episode. New vertigo drug with a surprising side effect "jazz hands".

Something just occurred to me.

Could the unthinkable be that Slade injects Laurel and Felicity with Mirakuru and only one cure left.

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Oooooh, now, that would be fun :)  I like it.

 

I'm also going with my new wild and wacky thought that the unthinkable is Diggle joining ARGUS.

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That Oliver fails to rescue Felicity but Barry Allen wakes up and swoops in at the last second and Felicity leaves to spend the summer in Central City.

For me that would be unthinkable so some part of that is probably true.

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I think Barry Allen is still unconscious.  It would be a waste of potentially good TV to have him wake up off-screen and miss everyone's reactions as well as his own to finding his new powers.  On the other hand, this is the Arrow EPs we are talking about.

 

I wonder if Cisco and Caitlin working on the mirakuru cure might play into them finding something that wakes Barry up from  his coma.

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