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S05.E03: Passenger 2018.02.18

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The railway takes center stage as Endeavour investigates the disappearance of a local woman - with initial fears linking it to the unsolved murder of a teenager, killed several years earlier.

Loathe those garbage robbery squad cops.  (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Nice cameo by Morse's autographed album from the Pilot. It still seems they don't know who robbed his flat.

They're really date-stamping on this series. The first episode ended with the announcement of Martin Luther King, Jr. assassination and this one had Robert F. Kennedy's. In the second series "Nocturne" took place during the 1966 World Cup and "Sway" was around Bonfire Night, but usually, it's kept pretty vague.

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It makes me smile as just how successful Morse is at "getting his leg over".  He doesn't seem to suffering for female company :)

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37 minutes ago, DHDancer said:

It makes me smile as just how successful Morse is at "getting his leg over".  He doesn't seem to suffering for female company :)

It kind of feels retaliatory though, like every time he has an an encounter with joan that doesn't go the way he wants, he picks up a chick.

 

 

What is going on with Joan anyway..... is she trying to push him away?

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Joan knows he loves her because he proposed when she was fleeing the Thursday home that fateful  early morning...

Finding him a girlfriend is her not so subtle way of saying that she cares for his happiness but it is not with her...

The period trains, cars, doubledecker bus in this episode just exemplifies the quality of the production plus the spot on music...wow.

Hated how Trewlove had to spell out to Fancy the unfairness of being a female on the force but he was clueless..Fancy is clueless about a lot...

Hope this story arc pays off for her character....

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The guy who got hit by the train---why did he break into the creepy station master's house? Was he planning on hurting the wife? Lots of twists & turns this episode.

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Now I’m mad. I’ve seen a clip of the scene between Morse and Joan on the roof. PBS edited it! What is wrong with them? What else did they leave out?

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On 7/7/2018 at 4:18 PM, rhys said:

The guy who got hit by the train---why did he break into the creepy station master's house? Was he planning on hurting the wife? Lots of twists & turns this episode.

He was the original  murderer, the one who killed a girl and took her shoes. The sister / brother in law (?) tried to copy his murder style when they killed the sister. 

The one the journalist was talking about.

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On 3/9/2018 at 11:14 AM, humbleopinion said:

Hated how Trewlove had to spell out to Fancy the unfairness of being a female on the force but he was clueless..Fancy is clueless about a lot...

Yes.  As someone said, "When you're used to privilege, equality seems like persecution."

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2 hours ago, Dessert said:

Now I’m mad. I’ve seen a clip of the scene between Morse and Joan on the roof. PBS edited it! What is wrong with them? What else did they leave out?

Now, *that* one was in this episode!  After he gets his beer, they head to the roof.  That is when she tries to fix him up with "Claudine".  Was that Claudine he ran into afterward on the street?

They were not just dismissive of the reporter played by Abigail Thaw, I thought they were rather rude to her. 

Secret red letters at the end spell out:  PARLIAMENTARY TRAINS -- a special train service for the lower-income riders. 

So, where were the missing scenes?  I think there must have been a scene with Fancy and the two jerks in the car before they blew into the office and attacked Trewlove.  That was just too out of the blue; it needed a setup. 

Strangely, Morse did not seem to react to seeing his belongings in the storage shed.

I need to watch this entire episode again.  I really got lost a few times. 

Edited by jjj.
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The scene with Joan on the roof is still there, but it is longer in the BBC version. What they use in the PBS version serves the plot, but loses a little of the emotional resonance. 

I was also waiting for a scene where Morse recovers his records or is at least told about them. I have no idea if that is in the BBC version or not. Now I wonder about everything. I know PBS edits many programs, but I don’t understand why. Do they not think we can sit still for an entire show, or don’t have the attention span to follow it? Do they think their schedule is so sacrosanct that it musn’t be tampered with? 

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5 minutes ago, Dessert said:

The scene with Joan on the roof is still there, but it is longer in the BBC version. What they use in the PBS version serves the plot, but loses a little of the emotional resonance. 

I was also waiting for a scene where Morse recovers his records or is at least told about them. I have no idea if that is in the BBC version or not. Now I wonder about everything. I know PBS edits many programs, but I don’t understand why. Do they not think we can sit still for an entire show, or don’t have the attention span to follow it? Do they think their schedule is so sacrosanct that it musn’t be tampered with? 

I think they shorten the shows to make time for the sponsor clips and then other promotions at the end.  It's only four or so minutes, but sometimes the scenes are crucial.  I quite liked the roof scene we saw -- it was emotional and rueful on both sides. 

Morse saw his records, but he just was not giving any indication that he recognized them.  Again (see two posts above), I do think we are missing a scene about the stolen Morse items.

Everyone certainly is giving George Fancy a lot of unearned breaks and credit.  Including the baby name.  Wife is going to be surprised if she ever tracks him down to thank him. 

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9 minutes ago, jjj said:

I think they shorten the shows to make time for the sponsor clips and then other promotions at the end.   

I have no sympathy. If they want to include commercials (which is what they are) they can add another 5 minutes to the scheduled program.

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It is three lines longer, where he says he will not come any closer, and tells Joan to come to him.  The rest is in the PBS version.  Glad you could get the full version!

2 hours ago, Dessert said:

Here’s the longer version:

Colin Dexter makes an appearance as "Employee of the Month" as "Signal Man Dexter"!

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Edited by jjj.
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What was the trainspotter's motivation - who the heck was he? Why did he choose to do another murder after all this time, and why did he apologize? Because creepy stationmaster was mean to him? I mixed up nursing home nurse, mother of the first victim, with the (much younger?) pregnant wife of stationmaster, so thought he was the father of the first victim. Need to watch again.

Of course sexism in the '60s, but I thought they were a bit on the nose with it re Trewlove. Everything about the robbery cops was overdone - pure eeevil bastards.

Thursday's disdain for reporter identical to police disdain for reporter in Dr Blake Mysteries. And probably other shows too.  Right down to you have your job to do, and I have mine! They must watch each other's shows.

I wasn't that impressed w the view! Had to look up the Tommy Brock reference, a badger from Beatrix Potter.

Set design, locations, score, and cinematography top notch as usual. Cars and trains even!

Edited by fauntleroy.
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Loved Bright's scene in his office with the robbery cop who insulted Trewlove. Bright was magnificent in his outrage.

Edited by graybrown bird. Reason: Spelling.
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When Endeavour left Joan's party he met a woman who had a bit of an accent.  I wondered if she was the one Joan offered to introduce him to.

I was trying to remember what we know about Bright, besides that he did something heroic in a previous episode.  Wikipedia's List of Endeavour Characters  has some background that I hope is accurate.

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I assumed she was .... she was French and French-accented and something-pink (maybe her cigarette?).  We know for certain now that Joan has an extensive circle of beautiful-young-people friends (in contrast to Morse's evenings of drinking and crosswords).  I'm fine with Morse and Joan being the subject of eachother's "misty watercolored memories of the way things were" in 20 years .... but I'm ready for for Joan to step back and/or become better defined as to her ambitions, beyond a rooftop view that extends "beyond Oxford" ... without some ambition, she still seems to be most likely simply intent on having a good time (wild oats) )before most likely settling down like ma and dad, at least as far as I can tell .... "How can I miss you if you won't go away?" 

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I think she said 'connard' meaning jerk/asshole to that guy she slapped so assumed it was the same French girl. Though nothing came of it, unless they cut another scene.

One or two seasons ago Bright was brave vs a tiger which I think he shot and said something about India afterwards. It was good because prior to that he only seemed to be a timid not-too-Bright bureaucrat. After that they began giving him more substance. Which is good, Lesser is a terrific actor.

Edited by fauntleroy.
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The mother of the murderer/trainspotter was the piano teacher of the girl murdered back in 1964.  Remember that he said in his first conversation with Morse that his mother wanted him to be a pianist, but he did not have an ear for it.  Then the mother of the girl, at the nursing home, mentioned the teacher's name, and said the teacher had been especially devastated by the girl's death.

I think there is a hint of jealousy we are meant to infer regarding the trainspotter.

Remember Morse looking at her school picture and seeing the badge labeled "Prefect "? Very early in the episode, in the model train scene, they give us a shot of random items, and the "Prefect" badge is right on top. So, we had a chance to solve that mystery about halfway through, if we had paid attention to the random objects. 

Idiot activity:  if Frances was supposed to be dead and mourned, she should not have been walking around Oxford.  The shopgirl saw her, and many others did as well.  She should have gone to London and waited. 

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6 hours ago, graybrown bird said:

Loved Bright's scene in his office with the robbery cop who insulted Trulove. Bright was magnificent in his outrage.

He's been my favorite hero in disguise ever since he faced down that tiger.

When Frances was doing her raging, sister hating confession I felt a little sorry for her.  Such nasty cases of sibling rivalry are usually the parent's fault.  Too bad Frances didn't take it out on her mother for so blatantly withdrawing the sun from her little three year old girl.

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14 hours ago, fauntleroy said:

 

Of course sexism in the '60s, but I thought they were a bit on the nose with it re Trewlove. Everything about the robbery cops was overdone - pure eeevil bastards.

Thursday's disdain for reporter identical to police disdain for reporter in Dr Blake Mysteries. And probably other shows too.  Right down to you have your job to do, and I have mine! They must watch each other's shows.

Reporters tend to give out information that the police want to keep quiet.  Also, where I live, they tend to get the facts wrong.  That is probably why the police don't like them.  Are the robbery cops as crooked as they seem?  Wonder if they will ever be found out? I think the female officer is getting too close to finding out and I fear for her safety.

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I agree, that I really started to like Bright as a character after his bravery with the tiger - and I think that laid the groundwork for his refusal to back down with D.I. Box (what's with the descriptive names :  Strange, Fancy, Bright, Thursday etc).  He could easily have been a standard fussy little bureaucrat, but the great writing and acting make him into a character of integrity and decency.  Actually, I think everyone on the show is a great actor, even if their characters may not be very likeable.  I also think the show design is spot on for the period. 

I understand Cedric's first murder (school girl Linda) was probably out of jealousy, she was his mother's favored pupil.  So why attack the station master's wife?  Was it triggered by the copy cat murders?  I also didn't understand how Frances and her husband expected to get away with substituting Frances for Jilly, it's not like they were identical twins, people know them. 

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50 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

I understand Cedric's first murder (school girl Linda) was probably out of jealousy, she was his mother's favored pupil.  So why attack the station master's wife?  Was it triggered by the copy cat murders?  I also didn't understand how Frances and her husband expected to get away with substituting Frances for Jilly, it's not like they were identical twins, people know them. 

The husband had tickets to South America, so apparently the plan was to leave town almost immediately.  That's why I said the wife (not murdered, but pretending to be murdered) should have gone to London instead of walking around Oxford where they knew people.  Idiot plan.  

Cedric apparently was triggered in some way -- I agree we really did not need that final attack.  They already had evidence that he had killed the girl back in 1964.  

I think what really pushed Bright's buttons was the whole scenario -- beyond Trewlove and the rudeness, to protecting everything he has stood for in his entire career.  I also have quite come to like him in the past few seasons! 

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3 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I also didn't understand how Frances and her husband expected to get away with substituting Frances for Jilly, it's not like they were identical twins, people know them. 

I was surprised that we found out very little about Jilly herself, the actual victim.  All we know is she had a lover who was married.  Did she have a job?  Friends?  Why wouldn't anyone who knew Jilly have reported her missing when she didn't show up at work or someone tried to reach her?  Was Frances hiding in Jilly's house pretending to be her? 

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17 hours ago, jjj said:

The mother of the murderer/trainspotter was the piano teacher of the girl murdered back in 1964.  Remember that he said in his first conversation with Morse that his mother wanted him to be a pianist, but he did not have an ear for it.  Then the mother of the girl, at the nursing home, mentioned the teacher's name, and said the teacher had been especially devastated by the girl's death.

I think there is a hint of jealousy we are meant to infer regarding the trainspotter.

Remember Morse looking at her school picture and seeing the badge labeled "Prefect "? Very early in the episode, in the model train scene, they give us a shot of random items, and the "Prefect" badge is right on top. So, we had a chance to solve that mystery about halfway through, if we had paid attention to the random objects. 

Idiot activity:  if Frances was supposed to be dead and mourned, she should not have been walking around Oxford.  The shopgirl saw her, and many others did as well.  She should have gone to London and waited. 

Thank you for explaining the Trainspotter piano teacher connection. I missed that completely. So did Morse suddenly make that connection, rush off to catch him, and then suddenly interrupt the attempted murder of the stationmaster's wife (another movie title--no?) just by chance.  Too much coinky dinky with the murderous sister happening to meet the mother of the murdered girl. But I actually liked this episode a lot. It kept my interest to the end. 

Kind of ballsy for the trainspotter to have been giving all the info to the police at the beginning. I guess he knew he wasn't going to be caught for anything related so he just wanted to show off his train knowledge. 

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I was in the UK in May and I saw actual trainspotters coming out of the woodwork to take photos of a vintage locomotive (1960s) that happened to be waiting in a small town station on the way to Edinburgh. It was pretty funny. I don't know how they spread the word. 

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18 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

When Frances was doing her raging, sister hating confession I felt a little sorry for her.  Such nasty cases of sibling rivalry are usually the parent's fault.  Too bad Frances didn't take it out on her mother for so blatantly withdrawing the sun from her little three year old girl.

I tend to take these confessions with a grain of salt--I doubt the mother actually stopped caring for the first born child or showing her affection, Frances was just jealous that she had to share her mom's attention.

Bright was superb in the dealing with the horrible robbery detective, but I also give credit to our lads at the station.  I loved how Strange, Fancy, Morse and Thursday all leaped in to stand up for one of their own and I loved Trewlove's not backing down from the jerk's threatening behavior--a good group of coppers :)

I don't know what to say about this whole Joan/Morse situation.  She obviously likes and cares for him but he doesn't seem to be making any move towards furthering their relationship, so she assumes he's not interested.  It's damn painful to watch.

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25 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I tend to take these confessions with a grain of salt--I doubt the mother actually stopped caring for the first born child or showing her affection, Frances was just jealous that she had to share her mom's attention.

 

Very true - different people have very different perceptions of family relationships. Without the mother being verbal we'll never know how much is perceived and how much is reality.

In my own family I see this (although not so much that any of us got to murderin') - and it amazes me. How can the three of us have such different perceptions of the same childhood experiences? It can boggle the mind.

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4 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I don't know what to say about this whole Joan/Morse situation.  She obviously likes and cares for him but he doesn't seem to be making any move towards furthering their relationship, so she assumes he's not interested.  It's damn painful to watch.

My assumption was that she knows very well how interested he is, but is trying to let him down gently.  I don't know why - I'd totally make a move for him.  :)  

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7 hours ago, GussieK said:

Thank you for explaining the Trainspotter piano teacher connection. I missed that completely. So did Morse suddenly make that connection, rush off to catch him, and then suddenly interrupt the attempted murder of the stationmaster's wife (another movie title--no?) just by chance.  Too much coinky dinky with the murderous sister happening to meet the mother of the murdered girl. 

At that point, Morse did not know about the sister plot, but he realized that there was a suddenly new connection between the train spotter and the 1964 murder, so was off and running -- while also figuring out the sister swap.

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Joan has no desire to become her mother any time soon, so while Morse may appear an "excellent prospect" to us,  I suspect he looks a lot like a ball&chain to her .... mooning about after she declined his proposal offered in her "hour of need", perhaps not a particularly happy memory for Joan. 

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29 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

Joan has no desire to become her mother any time soon, so while Morse may appear an "excellent prospect" to us,  I suspect he looks a lot like a ball&chain to her .... mooning about after she declined his proposal offered in her "hour of need", perhaps not a particularly happy memory for Joan. 

Also, I think Morse is close enough to being a clone of her father that it raises many issues for Joan, which she is intelligent enough to realize.  So, I agree she does not want to "become her mother" in the near future, but also does not want to marry dear old dad.  I don't mean this in any way except she so clearly has a complicated relationship with her father that she is imperfectly working through. 

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There were huge plot holes in this episode’s mystery, but that may just point to exceptionally stupid murderers. They would have been found out very quickly, even without Morse. The murder was in the newspaper. Neighbors, friends, and coworkers would have been coming by. Jilly’s disappearance would have been noticed.

As for Joan and Morse, I don’t think she is nearly as aware of his feelings as the viewers are. He hasn’t pursued her at all. Even when he located her in Leamington, it was because she called him and hung up. The last time he saw her before she returned to Oxford, she was in the hospital, unconscious from a “fall” and miscarriage, but for the months before her return, he apparently never even called her to see if she was all right. Since her return, he made no attempt to contact her until she invited him to her party. Yes, he proposed to her, but she assumed it was out of pity and more an offer to rescue her from a bad situation than a declaration of love. Of course, we know better. I think she knows that he cared at some point, but thinks that those feelings are over.

Her attempt to set him up with Claudine was sort of hilariously revealing, though - telling him that he needs to be taken care of. What part of Morse’s life does Joan think needs attention, LOL? Claudine isn’t the type to iron his shirts and pack sandwiches for his lunch. Joan seems to be spending a lot of time thinking about Morse’s sex life.

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Gee some good commentary above thanks. I do think in this case at least the murders were the dodgiest part of the story. Everything else, the character interaction, mood, setting, sets, score etc are so finely done you just assume the details of the whodunit make sense. Not so much this time though.

The trainspotter was meant to come off as autistic wasn't he? And he had a stammer. Guess that's why I was looking for a more thorough look at his background. Association of autism or any 'differently abled' for that matter with crime, without a better effort at context, seems like something to avoid.

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On 7/9/2018 at 8:14 AM, graybrown bird said:

Loved Bright's scene in his office with the robbery cop who insulted Trewlove. Bright was magnificent in his outrage.

And the fact that he was dressing down a violent man twice his size and half (or less) his age didn't phase him at all.  I'm quite pleased they've developed his character beyond Season One's hidebound relic who doesn't understand more progressive policing.

I too think Joan was trying to signal to Morse with the French woman set-up that she's not interested in a romantic relationship. Which is fine -- even if they did get together, we all know it would be doomed -- but I do wish they'd move her character beyond love interest/doesn't want to be like her mom. So what does she want to be? Let's see a little of that.

Ok, so clearly they are setting up Trewlove and Fancy, which I'm not thrilled about, but at least he's a lot more humble and respectful with her than their first meeting.  If they do pair up permanently, I dearly hope it doesn't affect Trewlove's career.

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20 hours ago, beadgirl said:

I too think Joan was trying to signal to Morse with the French woman set-up that she's not interested in a romantic relationship. 

Boy, I hope she isn’t trying to “let him down easy” and signal that she’s not interested in a romantic relationship. Considering that she already turned down his offer of marriage, that would be unnecessarily cruel and disrespectful. It would be one thing if he were pursuing her in any way, but he’s not. There’s nothing to suggest that he hadn’t accepted her answer as final. He hasn’t called her or contacted her at all. Their only meetings have been when their paths crossed because of his job and their conversations - on his side - have been, for the most part, cordial pleasantries. She has flirted with him, but he hasn’t flirted back. She went to him at the the lowest point in her life, when she had no one else to turn to, and he helped her - even proposing. He made himself vulnerable and she (understandably) said no. To decide, months later, to rub his nose in it for no reason would be awful. It’s insensitive even without that interpretation. I like the character of Joan, so I’m hoping she just wasn’t aware of the depth of his feelings, but has a clue now, after his hurt response to her matchmaking.

I think that Joan wants Morse in her life, at least as a friend. By inviting him to her party, and setting him up with a friend, she’s making him part of her social circle in a way that has, for the first time, nothing to do with her father. We’ll see how that works out.

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I suspect Joan would like for Morse to be happily hooking up with someone else and her matchmaking was in this way self-interested, in service of her comfort and peace of mind. Apples and oranges:  Joan is happy with a party and a bunch of friends ....  Morse may be most happy solitary with a drink, a crossword (not too easy) and opera on the phonograph. I'm not sure "being happy" is something it would occur to Morse to aspire to.

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51 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

I suspect Joan would like for Morse to be happily hooking up with someone else and her matchmaking was in this way self-interested, in service of her comfort and peace of mind. 

Would Joan have been feeling the same way about Morse if she had known that he just slept with her cousin?

And speaking of "getting a leg over", are we to assume that he did so with the woman who asked for a light, and are we to assume that that was Claudine?

Why was Morse so non-pulsed about "Claudine" slapping a man right before he approached he. Shouldn't he have been concerned for her safety, or the man's?

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 7:14 AM, graybrown bird said:

Loved Bright's scene in his office with the robbery cop who insulted Trewlove. Bright was magnificent in his outrage.

 I want that scene should go viral now in support of the MeToo# movement. So timely!

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I don't understand. I didn't get this episode until July!

Must note this Endeavour/Joan bit:

After she said "Hi!" to him as he sat in his car outside the Thursday house,  Morse watched Joan in his car mirror as she walked away. ?

Later,  on her rooftop at the flat-warming party, Joan said,  as she walked in front of Endeavour, "This is the view I fell in love with." Cut to his facial expression of "Yes,  me, too." ?

As to the crimes, more dastardly than usual. But then a great "L&O" episode involved sororicide, too, so not unique.

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6 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

After she said "Hi!" to him as he sat in his car outside the Thursday house,  Morse watched Joan in his car mirror as she walked away. ?

Later,  on her rooftop at the flat-warming party, Joan said,  as she walked in front of Endeavour, "This is the view I fell in love with." Cut to his facial expression of "Yes,  me, too." ?

Yes, our Endeavor definitely has his eye on Miss Thursday's heinie .

Edited by MaryHedwig.
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Yes, I think we are meant to think he spent the night with the French-accented woman who might or might not be Claudine -- he did not arrive back at his flat until the next morning. 

And LennieBriscoe, the episodes air first in Britain, and several months later over here.  

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:25 PM, MaryHedwig said:

 are we to assume that he did so with the woman who asked for a light, and are we to assume that that was Claudine?

16 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I don't understand. I didn't get this episode until July!

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On the rooftop, Morse declined to join Joan at the edge for what she said was the best view. Was it a policeman's  cautious avoidance of a roof edge? Or was he already enjoying his own best perspective:  Joan Thursday in the foreground of the Oxford skyline?

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Thought it referred to Morse's fear of heights (which apparently got worse as he got older and became a veteran of several death-defying roof-top adventures) ...  referring to Joan's derriere, however obliquely, seemed rather out of character for Morse.

Edited by SusanSunflower.
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I didn't mean to suggest that Morse was referring to that aspect of Joan's person. You're right; that seems out of character.  But I was struck by how beautiful both Morse and Joan looked in the early evening light up there.

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5 hours ago, graybrown bird said:

On the rooftop, Morse declined to join Joan at the edge for what she said was the best view. Was it a policeman's  cautious avoidance of a roof edge? Or was he already enjoying his own best perspective:  Joan Thursday in the foreground of the Oxford skyline?

Both.

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I hate to say it but the whole Joan/Morse thing is turning me off to this show. I think Russell Lewis is trying to use the same will they/won't they idea he used for Lewis and the lady pathologist(can't remember her name). The first season of Lewis it was pretty cute sweet but by the fourth season I was sick to death of it and hoped Hathaway would flirt with her instead. As I recall, Lewis finally got together with her in the last series, but I still felt it took away from the story and was unrealistic at the end.

I hope in Season 6, Joan either tells him she's moving to Australia with her new boyfriend and sees him just as a friend or they actually go out on a date. We know Morse doesn't end up with her but there's time for her to be tied to a murder or commit a crime-since old Morse seemed to fall for those type of women. Just end it please. I like the actress but it's been played out.

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1 hour ago, Tardislass said:

I hate to say it but the whole Joan/Morse thing is turning me off to this show. 

I get you and agree for different reasons. The whole infatuation with Joan came out of absolutely nowhere. Yes, when he first met her he found her attractive, but for it to have reached this point at this point...I just don't see or understand it. And, the actors have no chemistry with each other.

 

I like other parts of the show so  much better that I will still tune in, but this whole thing thoroughly annoys me.

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That just goes to show how much perceptions vary. I’ve always thought that Shaun Evans and Sara Vickers have amazing chemistry and have done some their very best acting in this series together.

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As soon as the couple forgot to bring the picture, I figured out they had killed the sister (also it was once an Law and Order episode, a woman killed her sister and took over her identity). 

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