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All Episodes Talk: Babbbling About Babylon

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

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I'm on episode 7 and I feel like I'm missing things because I'm focused on the subtitles. So here's a couple of questions I hope someone can answer for me:

  • Are they calling each other "comrade" to indicate they're communists?  Or is that just a direct translation of the German?  I feel like I would only call someone comrade if I was at a communist party meeting (I'm in America :)  
  • How/Why did Rath end up in bed with his landlady?  Was there a scene cut?
  • Does Charlotte live with her mother, 2 sisters, brother-in-law, 2 nieces/nephews, and father?  And do we see the brother-in-law other places or does he just look like another character?
  • What's the status of prostitution in Berlin?  You just need to register?  And if so, why isn't Charlotte?

I wish this show was recapped somewhere!  I think there's some subtext I'm missing because I'm not familiar with Germany like I am with England/America during the same time period.

Love the music, I think all the dance scenes are great!  

I assume Charlotte is the one who told Rath's partner about his condition.  I was a bit confused because I thought she was taking the little vial to Rath.   I love how Charlotte is investigating as best she can.  She really has a good head on her shoulders.  I can't wait to see how it all ties together.

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47 minutes ago, MorganSte said:

I'm on episode 7 and I feel like I'm missing things because I'm focused on the subtitles. So here's a couple of questions I hope someone can answer for me:

  • Are they calling each other "comrade" to indicate they're communists?  Or is that just a direct translation of the German?  I feel like I would only call someone comrade if I was at a communist party meeting (I'm in America :)  
  • How/Why did Rath end up in bed with his landlady?  Was there a scene cut?
  • Does Charlotte live with her mother, 2 sisters, brother-in-law, 2 nieces/nephews, and father?  And do we see the brother-in-law other places or does he just look like another character?
  • What's the status of prostitution in Berlin?  You just need to register?  And if so, why isn't Charlotte?

I wish this show was recapped somewhere!  I think there's some subtext I'm missing because I'm not familiar with Germany like I am with England/America during the same time period.

Love the music, I think all the dance scenes are great!  

I assume Charlotte is the one who told Rath's partner about his condition.  I was a bit confused because I thought she was taking the little vial to Rath.   I love how Charlotte is investigating as best she can.  She really has a good head on her shoulders.  I can't wait to see how it all ties together.

To be honest I want to do a rewatch because so much happened but

Germans also use the term "comrade" to indicate a comrade in arms so it depends on the speaker. But Berlin was a hotbed of Communism and Socialism which is a big reason the Nazis despised it so much. 

Not sure of the how with the landlady but I just took it as two lonely people hooking up. 

I enjoy the music and dance scenes (and Bryan Ferry) but I'm reasonably certain they're not terribly accurate. The producers say they were also influenced by Berlin's modern techno scene for the dance sequences so it's pretty stylized. 

Charlotte is great, not sure why she feels comfortable leaving her younger sister with that creepy brother in law. But I guess she assumes she's protected by other family members? 

I've been obsessed with Weimar era Berlin since I saw Cabaret as a teen and I think it's visually stunning so I've really enjoyed the show. The characters seem "real" to me in that no one is all good or quite all bad either. Though you can pick the future Nazi's out of a lineup already. 

I'm confused about the last episode however, was that brownshirt really the boyfriend or was she imagining it because there was a resemblance? I assumed the Nazis had infiltrated the Communist to spy but again I need to rewatch because so much happened. 

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The word for "comrade" as in communism is Genosse but the word in a military sense is Kamerad. I'm pretty sure I heard the communist version...

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I have just finished episode 10 and that death hit me hard.   And Charlotte sister and brother inlaw are scum

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Danke für dieser Sub.

Besser spät als nie!

Edited by revbfc.
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On 2/20/2018 at 9:34 PM, MorganSte said:

I'm on episode 7 and I feel like I'm missing things because I'm focused on the subtitles. So here's a couple of questions I hope someone can answer for me:

  • Are they calling each other "comrade" to indicate they're communists?  Or is that just a direct translation of the German?  I feel like I would only call someone comrade if I was at a communist party meeting (I'm in America :)  
  • How/Why did Rath end up in bed with his landlady?  Was there a scene cut?
  • Does Charlotte live with her mother, 2 sisters, brother-in-law, 2 nieces/nephews, and father?  And do we see the brother-in-law other places or does he just look like another character?
  • What's the status of prostitution in Berlin?  You just need to register?  And if so, why isn't Charlotte?

I wish this show was recapped somewhere!  I think there's some subtext I'm missing because I'm not familiar with Germany like I am with England/America during the same time period.

Love the music, I think all the dance scenes are great!  

I assume Charlotte is the one who told Rath's partner about his condition.  I was a bit confused because I thought she was taking the little vial to Rath.   I love how Charlotte is investigating as best she can.  She really has a good head on her shoulders.  I can't wait to see how it all ties together.

-“Alte Kameraden”. Was an old nationalist song that the Nazis adopted.  After WWII, the song became a signal to others that you secretly held a torch for the NSDAP.

-Landlady wanted some, and Gereon was the sexier choice.

-Yes to the family arrangement, don’t know about the rest (yet another reason to rewatch).

-I can’t speak definitely about the legal status of prostitution in Berlin at that time, but German towns have traditionally made allowances for it to exist with many strictures.

As for Lotte:  yes, German Emma Watson is awesome.

21 hours ago, MorganSte said:

I have just finished episode 10 and that death hit me hard.   And Charlotte sister and brother inlaw are scum

I hope the price on their coin-op electricity quadruples.

Edited by revbfc.
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On 2/20/2018 at 9:34 PM, MorganSte said:
  •  
  • How/Why did Rath end up in bed with his landlady?  Was there a scene cut?
  • Does Charlotte live with her mother, 2 sisters, brother-in-law, 2 nieces/nephews, and father?  And do we see the brother-in-law other places or does he just look like another character?
  • What's the status of prostitution in Berlin?  You just need to register?  And if so, why isn't Charlotte?
  • Yeah like others said convenience plays into the hook-up. Although I'm not 100% certain I think that scene happens after Rath's night out dancing with Charlotte. Rath was in the mood ?. The landlady is also looking for something more I think.
  • Charlotte does live with her mother, 2 sisters, brother-in-law and the little ones. The old man is the grandfather. I think we do see the brother-in-law elsewhere in one scene but could be wrong about that. And I can't remember what it was now.
  • I don't really fully understand the prostitution laws either but Charlotte makes the deal with Wolter I think to avoid registering. Then he will help her get the certificate of conduct she needs to work for the police. In a way not being registered ultimately works to her advantage because she won't have the record.
On 2/20/2018 at 9:34 PM, MorganSte said:

I assume Charlotte is the one who told Rath's partner about his condition.  I was a bit confused because I thought she was taking the little vial to Rath.   I love how Charlotte is investigating as best she can.  She really has a good head on her shoulders.  I can't wait to see how it all ties together.

Charlotte essentially is forced to spy on Rath by Wolter. She makes a deal with the devil because Wolter can end her working for the police because she is not registered. And then he promises to help her get the conduct certificate. She had promised Rath her lips were sealed but then Wolter basically blackmails her.

On 2/20/2018 at 10:30 PM, Lillith said:

I'm confused about the last episode however, was that brownshirt really the boyfriend or was she imagining it because there was a resemblance? I assumed the Nazis had infiltrated the Communist to spy but again I need to rewatch because so much happened. 

I believe the brownshirt was definitely the boyfriend. I found this confusing and it was one of the main questions I had after watching the first time. So when I re-watched I tried to pay attention to Fritz's actions. We first see him when he joins in a protest and picks up some leaflets. He befriends Greta before she has the job as the Benda's maid. Then later Fritz and his friend manipulate Greta into supporting their plot against Benda. But it was never clear to me if he was a brownshirt to begin with and went undercover to join the Communists or if the brownshirts were a splinter group of some sort. I mean Fritz would have had no idea when he joined that protest initially that it would lead him into the opportunity to form a plot against Benda later.  I wish it was clearer.

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I'm pretty sure Fritz was a Nazi who infiltrated the Communists, so he could figure out a way to violently attack the Weimar Government (which the Nazis wanted to overthrow, of course) while hanging the crime on the Communists. Greta just ended up being, because of her access to Benda,  the best avenue.

Lotte doesn't want to register as a prostitute because doing so will close off other career paths, like becoming a detective.

Edited by Bannon.
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I can't begin to describe how much I enjoyed this show. All of it; acting, writing, direction, cinematography. It is so clearly superior to the overwhelming majority of other heavily serialized drama, even stuff that has received critical praise, that I could not wait for the next episode, and finished it in about half the time I had planned.

To pick just one small example of the subtle quality of this show, I put forth the character of Wolter. Most writing and directing teams, and actors, would turn that character into a cartoon villain. In the hands of this cast and crew, however, Wolter, while no doubt vile, is a man who is also capable of compassion and loyalty, who grasps the at times absurd aspects of his choices, who nevertheless chooses his morally awful path, because of his nostalgic embrace of a past that never really existed. The writing and acting are just sublime, and I assume the directors fostered that as well.

I have a lot more to say about this show, but I'll take it slowly, it being so rich and complex.

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Watching this show is a lot like sitting through the Star Wars prequels: you just know it can’t end well for ANYONE.

Edited by revbfc.
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35 minutes ago, revbfc said:

Watching this show is a lot like sitting through the Star Wars prequels: you just know it can’t end well for ANYONE.

If not for the rest of his family, I almost was relieved that Benda suffered his fate, compared to what would have happened to him in a decade, if he hadn't left Germany. I think he would have been too decent to be a Jewish collaborator, so his position would have made him an early target for the Nazis

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4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

If not for the rest of his family, I almost was relieved that Benda suffered his fate, compared to what would have happened to him in a decade, if he hadn't left Germany. I think he would have been too decent to be a Jewish collaborator, so his position would have made him an early target for the Nazis

That’s exactly what he was though: an early target of the Nazis.

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So President in Germany is almost like a king?  He just seemed very powerful when he stopped the police from charging the general.  And at the same time, why would the Berlin police charge the general.  Isn't there a national police force (like the FBI) in Germany at this time?

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The Weimar's constitution was much like the US - the President was the head of state and able to issue pardons.  I'm sure they are taking some license here.

I don't think they had a national police force - even the FBI in the US really started with prohibition.  Berlin had two police forces:  the Kriminal Politzisten, the criminal police, and the Politisher Politzisten, the political police.  Benda is the head of the political police.

I'm still half way through but wanted to say that the nightclub scene at the end of the second episode blew my mind.

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1 hour ago, MorganSte said:

So President in Germany is almost like a king?  He just seemed very powerful when he stopped the police from charging the general.  And at the same time, why would the Berlin police charge the general.  Isn't there a national police force (like the FBI) in Germany at this time?

It is an interesting scene when Benda and his colleague have their encounter with the President. Everything in their demeanor, posture etc., subtly alters and it was as if they were meeting a royal and didn't quite know how to behave. Although surprising, since the Republic is rather new I guess I can understand these reactions.

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On 2/25/2018 at 3:05 PM, Stella said:

It is an interesting scene when Benda and his colleague have their encounter with the President. Everything in their demeanor, posture etc., subtly alters and it was as if they were meeting a royal and didn't quite know how to behave. Although surprising, since the Republic is rather new I guess I can understand these reactions.

Wasn't the President Von Hindenberg? He was a big deal, a member of the Prussian aristocracy, a war hero from a noble family. So even though the President ranks under the chancellor (?) he was an esteemed figure which has a lot to do with their deference to him. 

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On 2/26/2018 at 5:52 PM, Lillith said:

Wasn't the President Von Hindenberg? He was a big deal, a member of the Prussian aristocracy, a war hero from a noble family. So even though the President ranks under the chancellor (?) he was an esteemed figure which has a lot to do with their deference to him. 

Thank you for this explanation - very interesting.

I'm hoping someone can explain or add insight into what Anno/Dr. Schmidt's objectives might be. I honestly thought after my first viewing that the doctor was simply using his cutting edge therapeutic methods to treat patients, including Gereon. At the end when Gereon sees Anno in Dr. Schmidt it seemed like an hallucination than reality. But in reading the few review/recaps I could find and some discussion on Reddit I learned that most took this scene literally. After rewatching I guess I concur but I still don't really understand why he would form an entirely new identity, abandoning his wife and son, parents and brother to do so. I found this aspect of the story highly confusing and somewhat implausible.

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Spoilers like crazy! But this is all episodes discussion of a binge show, so I will just space the following. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The severity of Anno's wounds is obviously why he was in no condition to return immediately. And his disfigurement was why he wasn't identified immediately. Not returning later was likely much to do with Gereon's flight and subsequent affair with Helga. Anno Shmidt's interest in the film of the Raths' father is perfectly obvious if Anno was born Anno Rath. But not so if he isn't the son too.  Also explained is why Shmidt took an interest in Gereon's medication. And Shmidt's influence with Edgar the Armenian (personal doctor) explains why Edgar didn't kill Gereon, either when Gereon killed the Saint or at the train. He was doing that as a favor for his personal physician, who can be very handy if you don't want police investigating theft of your blackmail movies.  If Shmidt was not Anno, it is entirely unclear why Gereon wasn't killed for shooting the gang boss in the hand, as well as costing him all that blackmail money (once the news the films were destroyed leaked out, as it would eventually.) If Anno Shimidt wasn't Anno Rath, on the other hand, it is not very clear how Anno Shmidt knew Gereon was lying to himself about the incident. And it is not clear how Shmidt would induce such a revision, or why Gereon would accept it. Lastly, the striking ambiguity in Gereon's sobbing embrace of his brother and the man who was making sure his morphine habit escalated into full addiction would be gone. (I think one reason Helga went for Nyssen was the realization that Rath was a junkie now, as well as a corrupt cop perjuring himself to justify the police murders.) So, I'm in the crowd that reads it literally. 

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On February 27, 2018 at 5:04 PM, Stella said:

Thank you for this explanation - very interesting.

I'm hoping someone can explain or add insight into what Anno/Dr. Schmidt's objectives might be. I honestly thought after my first viewing that the doctor was simply using his cutting edge therapeutic methods to treat patients, including Gereon. At the end when Gereon sees Anno in Dr. Schmidt it seemed like an hallucination than reality. But in reading the few review/recaps I could find and some discussion on Reddit I learned that most took this scene literally. After rewatching I guess I concur but I still don't really understand why he would form an entirely new identity, abandoning his wife and son, parents and brother to do so. I found this aspect of the story highly confusing and somewhat implausible.

I finally finished - what a show.

I didn't see that scene as anything but a hallucination.  Schmidt was a doctor - we saw him treat medical problems.  Rath's brother wasn't a doctor.  And he didn't look like Schmidt.  Gereon was hallucinating his brother so that he would be forgiven.

I assumed the Armenian wanted Gereon to get hooked on heroin and used the doctor and pharmacy to make it happen.

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I finished this two weeks ago but I've been putting off posting here because I feel like I have so much to say.  Maybe by waiting two weeks, I will have forgotten things I wanted to say.  I'll divide the post in two in case people want to look in here while watching but not want to be spoiled.

General or very early thoughts.

I was hooked by the second episode with that terrific musical moment.  It's still my favorite musical moment of the series so far but I was surprised by how much music and dance played a part in the rest of the episodes even though it's not a musical.  I especially felt like we were seeing a different side of Gereon whenever he danced. He went from tortured soul to lighthearted.

That said, while I liked the series in the first season (first eight episodes), it wasn't until they got into the second batch of 8, which is technically the second season portion even though Netflix packaged them all together, that I grew to love this series.  I don't know if the series got better or if it's just that I started to finally figure out who was who and some of the politics of the time.  I came into this rather unfamiliar with this time period in Germany so I spent too much time thinking about who might be Nazis rather than realizing that people I thought might be Nazis only might be future Nazis.

It helped once Kardakov got off of the screen.  There was only so much I could take watching him somehow manage to not die over and over again.

Alfred Nyssen just looks like a Nazi who just walked out of an Indiana Jones movie.

 

Later or more specific thoughts

Just as I started putting together all the times I saw Stephan and grew to like him, they kill him.  That was brutal.

On 2/27/2018 at 7:04 PM, Stella said:

I found this aspect of the story highly confusing and somewhat implausible.

There are a couple of those moments in this show.  Surprisingly, the brother being alive wasn't one of them for me.  I was getting the sense that Ritter and Rath are destined to get together on this show so something was going to have to come between this ten year long love affair of Rath's, especially now that she came to him.  And they mentioned how he was missing all this time.  I get that people really did go missing but I just felt it was narratively keeping the door open for the brother to come back to life and upend Gereon's life. 

Some of the other moments I was referring to include the other characters who would not die like Kardakova, who never died, and Bruno, who eventually did.  And the underwater scenes with Rath breathing into Ritter in order to keep her alive was a bit over-the-top.  I didn't mind, though, because I thought they were beautiful scenes and I really did not want her to die. In fact, I almost didn't finish the series because I thought she died once she breathed in.  I love the character and would have been so mad.  There was also Rath managing to hold up the photographer from the plane.

I also thought the whole train shootout, with the CGI in the background, was also surreal.  However, it felt very Hitchcockian and old fashioned cinematic to me which, atmospherically, went along with some of the fantasy elements that popped up every now and then, like Helga's dream where she and Rath danced. 

I can't wait for the next chapter in this series. 

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I loved this show!  One of the best things I've seen in years.  I didn't mind Charlotte not drowning.  There were so many scenes that referred back to 1920s/30s action movie scenes and ideas--the guy falling out of the plane and being hauled back in. Kardakov surviving and surviving again.  so I didn't mind that.  I thought the acting was superb.  And the real-life bits (or that's how I think of them) regarding the political situation and the Communists vs Nazis were extraordinary.  I don't believe that Dr Schmidt is Gereon's brother.  To me it's more of a suggestion that he has put in Gereon's hypnotized mind.  which is also the kind of move that would have come up in an UFA film of the period.

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On 2/21/2018 at 1:38 PM, MorganSte said:

I have just finished episode 10 and that death hit me hard.   And Charlotte sister and brother inlaw are scum

Yes, the only other TV death I can remember having such a visceral reaction to was Wallace's death in The Wire.

Season 3 will be a lot more complex if Schmidt is not Gereon's brother.  And since this is a show that's not afraid of complexity, I imagine that is the case.

Brilliant show.  I don't have the words to describe how much I liked it.

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There are more seasons coming, yes? Please say yes! This is one of the best shows I've seen in ages. Great stories and characters and that production design! Sadly, I cannot get anyone I know to watch it, probably because it's 16 episodes of subtitled German, even though I tell them it's got everything from murderous priests to drag queens, White Russians to proto-Nazis. Well, their loss...

There has to be another season -- what happened to the train car MADE OF GOLD?!

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On 3/17/2018 at 6:02 PM, AllAboutMBTV said:

There are more seasons coming, yes? Please say yes! This is one of the best shows I've seen in ages. Great stories and characters and that production design! Sadly, I cannot get anyone I know to watch it, probably because it's 16 episodes of subtitled German, even though I tell them it's got everything from murderous priests to drag queens, White Russians to proto-Nazis. Well, their loss...

There has to be another season -- what happened to the train car MADE OF GOLD?!

I read a couple of months ago that they were writing the new season now and it would focus on the time period a few months after the stock market crash and the beginning of the Great Depression. No word though when it would start filming or an air date but I'd guess some time in 2019? 

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On 3/17/2018 at 6:02 PM, AllAboutMBTV said:

Sadly, I cannot get anyone I know to watch it, probably because it's 16 episodes of subtitled German...

There is an option for dubbed English dialogue on Netflix.

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Have binge watched 3 episodes and after a slow start, I’m enjoying this-even with the musical interludes. I also watched Dark and swear that the doctor who told Charlotte’s mom she had syphillis played the school principal in Dark.

Also, both shows feature deaf characters, is this common in German productions or is just a coincidence?

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Re the English-dubbing option: I heard it was nicht gut. I saw a dubbed clip on YouTube, I think, and the voice actor for Gereon sounded like Tom Cruise. Which, no. Happily, I don't mind reading subtitles.

And Stephan Janicke's deaf parents nearly broke my hard little heart, especially his Mahler-loving father.

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It took me several episodes to figure out how to turn the dubbing off.  It is extremely nicht gut.  Liv Lisa Fries and Leonie Benesch both speak good English and they got someone else to do the dubbing.  

On 3/21/2018 at 9:27 AM, Tardislass said:

Have binge watched 3 episodes and after a slow start, I’m enjoying this-even with the musical interludes. I also watched Dark and swear that the doctor who told Charlotte’s mom she had syphillis played the school principal in Dark.

Also, both shows feature deaf characters, is this common in German productions or is just a coincidence?

I haven't seen Dark but IMDB says Jordis Triebel is in both shows.  Keep watching, the second half is even better than the first 8.

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Binge watched the last few episodes last night and while I loved most of it, the last two episodes tested my belief in this show. Specifically, Rath going from detective to the German James Bond-saving Charlotte from drowning by apparently inventing modern CPR decades too early. And by doing Bond stunts aboard a train with the worst CGI scenery of the show-did they run out of cash? The timeline was also way off we see the train scenes in the daylight yet the bomb and the ladies’ nightmares happen at night. And I’m not sure what the point was of a train car made of gold...

 

As for the missing Anno revelation, given that we heard the Doctor’s speech of post hypnotic suggestion and that Rath is high on heroin. It’s just a ploy to get Rath to do the Armenians bidding with the police force.

Final thoughts-

What ever happened to the little sister and the pedophile friend of the BIL. That seemed to get dropped.

In the books, Charlotte is Gereon’s girlfriend but I hope they don’t go that route. She needs someone like a German Nick Charles so they can solve mysteries ala Nick & Nora. Gereon is too messed up right now. But given the fact that his SIL is having dinner with a rich single man, it looks like they will hook up.

Finally, I see Rath succumbing to Nazism quicker than Lotte. He seemed to have no trouble lying about the Communists and heading up a secret spying task force by his stereotypical Nazi boss. I do think Lotte would at least have qualms.

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On 3/22/2018 at 6:08 PM, AllAboutMBTV said:

Re the English-dubbing option: I heard it was nicht gut. I saw a dubbed clip on YouTube, I think, and the voice actor for Gereon sounded like Tom Cruise. Which, no. Happily, I don't mind reading subtitles.

And Stephan Janicke's deaf parents nearly broke my hard little heart, especially his Mahler-loving father.

The dubbed Charlotte sounds like Reese Witherspoon...The only character that sounded halfway right was the Armenian. 

I hope we see more of Stephan’s parents. They seem to be the only support Charlotte has right now.

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On 3/22/2018 at 6:08 PM, AllAboutMBTV said:

Re the English-dubbing option: I heard it was nicht gut. I saw a dubbed clip on YouTube, I think, and the voice actor for Gereon sounded like Tom Cruise. Which, no. Happily, I don't mind reading subtitles.

And Stephan Janicke's deaf parents nearly broke my hard little heart, especially his Mahler-loving father.

You should watch some German dubbed American films.  The voices often sound just as incongruous as what your experiencing with BB.

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On 3/22/2018 at 6:22 PM, meep.meep said:

It took me several episodes to figure out how to turn the dubbing off.  It is extremely nicht gut.  Liv Lisa Fries and Leonie Benesch both speak good English and they got someone else to do the dubbing. 

I know some actors dub themselves. Usually it's foreign actors in Hollywood productions who do their own voice work in their native languages.  But recently there was an American actor who speaks a foreign language rather fluently and people wondered why he didn't do his own dubbing for the other language.  One of the speculations was that, because he has an accent while speaking this foreign language, it would come off as strange when everyone else around him was speaking without an accent.

So if Liv Lisa and Leonie have any hint of an accent different than the one every other "native German character" was using, it wouldn't be consistent.  The lack of accent is actually one of the reasons I hate dubbing the most.

On 3/24/2018 at 8:52 AM, Tardislass said:

And by doing Bond stunts aboard a train with the worst CGI scenery of the show-did they run out of cash?

I thought this was kind of on purpose since there are other aspects of the show that have an "old movie" vibe to them.  They even have the old school circle that opens to a new scene or gets smaller to close out the scene.  The bad CGI looked like old fashioned blue/green screening to me.

Edited by Irlandesa.
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16 hours ago, revbfc said:

You should watch some German dubbed American films.  The voices often sound just as incongruous as what your experiencing with BB.

When I visited Paris years ago, there was a German channel showing Knight Rider dubbed in German. David Hassellhof’s voice wasn’t bad, but Kitt the car’s German voice was good awful especially compared to the cultured American voice. Still makes me laugh to this day.

As I understand it most of the main cast speaks English and at least the two leads English is not heavily accented.

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5 hours ago, Tardislass said:

When I visited Paris years ago, there was a German channel showing Knight Rider dubbed in German. David Hassellhof’s voice wasn’t bad, but Kitt the car’s German voice was good awful especially compared to the cultured American voice. Still makes me laugh to this day.

As I understand it most of the main cast speaks English and at least the two leads English is not heavily accented.

As a regular watcher of German TV allow me to suggest you watch any film starring Vin Diesel, Sam Jackson or Sylvester Stallone dubbed in that language.

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I’m surprised nobody’s pointed out the peculiar facial resemblance that the actress who plays Gereon’s sister-in-law/lover has to Renee Zellweger. They have the exact same mouth! And the actress who plays Charlotte reminds me a great deal of the actress who plays Maria on the UK soap Coronation Street.

I’m in the camp which believes Dr. Schmidt is Anno. It’s the only explanation for why the Armenian never had Gereon killed and in fact saved him from the vengeful commie doctor and her minions. Speaking of the Armenian I’m assuming his family was murdered in the horrific genocide by the Turks a decade or so earlier and that will be explored in future seasons.

I think Greta really did see and confront the real Fritz even though the camerawork/direction seemed to indicate it was a hallucination. It makes sense to me that Greta believing Fritz had been killed would have been the only way to drive her into doing what she did. We saw swastikas the first time on the brown shirts at the train station, right?

Nyssen may have romantic designs on Gereon’s sister-in-law/lover but I don’t think she does on him-not yet, anyway. I’m sure that will change next season, which can’t arrive a moment too soon for me.

Edited by TimWil.
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8 hours ago, TimWil said:

I’m in the camp which believes Dr. Schmidt is Anno. It’s the only explanation for why the Armenian never had Gereon killed and in fact saved him from the vengeful commie doctor and her minions. Speaking of the Armenian I’m assuming his family was murdered in the horrific genocide by the Turks a decade or so earlier and that will be explored in future seasons.

I pretty much agree with this now but I still think that it is a very convoluted plot. Getting Anno from near death on a battle field to the cutting edge doctor in about 11 years is one aspect. Also it is hard to understand why he would have abandoned his family. He doesn't seem the type to fear rejection (thinking of the facial disfigurement). Has he been semi-stalking his family? Obviously he knows about Gereon's PTSD and is "treating" him without Gereon's knowledge. I don't know this is all very confusing to me. But admittedly fascinating.

8 hours ago, TimWil said:

I think Greta really did see and confront the real Fritz even though the camerawork/direction seemed to indicate it was a hallucination.

Definitely agree. They used her horrifically. Her entire storyline was tragic.

8 hours ago, TimWil said:

Nyssen may have romantic designs on Gereon’s sister-in-law/lover but I don’t think she does on him-not yet, anyway. I’m sure that will change next season, which can’t arrive a moment too soon for me.

One thing that stood out about Helga is that she was kind of a frivolous person. Even her dream sequence was silly and fun - unlike most if not all other character's. She has some dialogue during their scene dinner with Bruno & his wife that suggests she would love to have a lot of cash to spend. I think Nyssen's wealth will be a big lure for her. Even though she made that rather eloquent speech and challenged his family's motives I do agree something will develop between them.

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The whole Helga/Gereon relationship is based on the feelings they had as teenagers before the war assuming that even though Helga married Annon, she had feelings toward his brother. After Annon "died", their relationship seemed to consist of bed-hopping and not much else since they couldn't openly date. So in a sense, they were on the "affair high"-the rush coming from sneaking around. Now however, they are living together and seeing what each other is really like and it isn't quite as either expected. I think Gereon's nephew Moritz(where do they get these names) was correct in saying Gereon really didn't want them there. He hasn't let Helga return to work(IMO that would make it too permanent for Gereon). Helga(it seems from the dream) still sees him as the carefree young man rather than the traumatized, drug-using man he's today. I don't think she's thinking of love with Nyssen but if there was a choice between living in a rich household with a chauffeur and a wealthy husband or living in a small flat with a man who shots heroin and then passes out for an hour, I think the choice is obvious.

 

As for the brother reveal, a part of me hopes the doctor is really just doing a Manchurian Candidate on Gereon and breaking him to have a friend and informant high up in the force. The whole plot is very soapy and I'd hoped that the last episode wouldn't be indicative of the future show. Having his brother not only not be recognized by anyone for 10 years but somehow healing, becoming a Psychiatrist and becoming famous enough to hold lectures and run a clinic all in less than a decade seems sillier than a train made of gold.

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On 3/24/2018 at 7:52 AM, Tardislass said:

Binge watched the last few episodes last night and while I loved most of it, the last two episodes tested my belief in this show. Specifically, Rath going from detective to the German James Bond-saving Charlotte from drowning by apparently inventing modern CPR decades too early. And by doing Bond stunts aboard a train with the worst CGI scenery of the show-did they run out of cash? The timeline was also way off we see the train scenes in the daylight yet the bomb and the ladies’ nightmares happen at night. And I’m not sure what the point was of a train car made of gold...

 

As for the missing Anno revelation, given that we heard the Doctor’s speech of post hypnotic suggestion and that Rath is high on heroin. It’s just a ploy to get Rath to do the Armenians bidding with the police force.

Final thoughts-

What ever happened to the little sister and the pedophile friend of the BIL. That seemed to get dropped.

In the books, Charlotte is Gereon’s girlfriend but I hope they don’t go that route. She needs someone like a German Nick Charles so they can solve mysteries ala Nick & Nora. Gereon is too messed up right now. But given the fact that his SIL is having dinner with a rich single man, it looks like they will hook up.

Finally, I see Rath succumbing to Nazism quicker than Lotte. He seemed to have no trouble lying about the Communists and heading up a secret spying task force by his stereotypical Nazi boss. I do think Lotte would at least have qualms.

Eh, the show was otherwise so well written, I just pretended that Lotte was rescued much more quickly, and I ignore her coming back from the dead. Similarly with the train made of gold and the extended gun battle; I just think of the episode ending a few minutes earlier, without the protracted nonsense. If the rest of the show had not been so well crafted, I would not be so charitable. Hopefully that sort of nonsense is not indicative of what season 2 will be like.

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If anyone is looking for another German series, Netflix is now streaming Charite. It’s a 6 part series about a young nurse in 1888 Berlin and her desire to study medicine. Apparently, the German Empire was the last part of Europe that didn’t allow females in med school. Of course there are love story side plots but thee are also doctors trying to find cures for TB and diphtheria. It also shows the anti-sematism even against doctors in the hospital unflinchingly.

Not as good as Dark or BB but enjoyable non the less. Evidently they are having a second series set in the Nazi era.

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On 3/22/2018 at 6:08 PM, AllAboutMBTV said:

Re the English-dubbing option: I heard it was nicht gut. I saw a dubbed clip on YouTube, I think, and the voice actor for Gereon sounded like Tom Cruise. Which, no. Happily, I don't mind reading subtitles.

And Stephan Janicke's deaf parents nearly broke my hard little heart, especially his Mahler-loving father.

I never like to watch things dubbed. I prefer hearing the actor's own voices no matter what language they are speaking. The "voice actors" who do the dubbing are not really acting a lot of times, they are just reading the lines so it always sounds flat. Like the difference between hearing someone just reading the lines of a play versus seeing the play acted out. 

I think people should just do the extra work of reading subtitles, it's worth it. As a bonus, you can learn some bits of different languages or brush up on one you've forgotten.

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I enjoyed this series a lot and I hope there will be more episodes. The only thing that confused me were:

1. Was that really Gereon's brother at the end, and why did he abandon his wife & son if he'd survived the war?

2. Why did the Armenian want the train of gold? It was obvious what the other factions' motives were, but I was not sure of his motive.

3. Why did the Armenian subtly threaten Charlotte's little sister even after Charlotte had given him all the info he'd asked for?

I thought the costumes, settings and cinematography were great in re-creating the look of the 1920s. This was a really interesting show. I loved Charlotte and Gereon as characters and the actors were so good.

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On 2/22/2018 at 10:34 PM, Bannon said:

If not for the rest of his family, I almost was relieved that Benda suffered his fate, compared to what would have happened to him in a decade, if he hadn't left Germany. I think he would have been too decent to be a Jewish collaborator, so his position would have made him an early target for the Nazis

I just want to quietly point out that there was no such thing as a Jewish collaborator in Nazi Germany. 

The occupied zones certainly had locals who collaborated -- for a variety of reasons, from vile to expedient -- but there was no way to mitigate Jewishness. No Jewish person could merely opt to be corrupt, horrible, evil, and 'get' to collaborate. Many things are nuanced. Nazi policy with regard to Jewishness was not. 

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3 hours ago, JTM said:

I just want to quietly point out that there was no such thing as a Jewish collaborator in Nazi Germany. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_Kübler

We can argue that she wasn't necessarily a willing collaborator, but she did opt to become a "catcher" so that she and her parents could avoid deportation. There's a book about her by Peter Wyden called Stella: One Woman's True Tale of Evil, Betrayal, and Survival in Hitler's Germany. The link goes to a detailed book review.

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10 hours ago, JTM said:

I just want to quietly point out that there was no such thing as a Jewish collaborator in Nazi Germany. 

The occupied zones certainly had locals who collaborated -- for a variety of reasons, from vile to expedient -- but there was no way to mitigate Jewishness. No Jewish person could merely opt to be corrupt, horrible, evil, and 'get' to collaborate. Many things are nuanced. Nazi policy with regard to Jewishness was not. 

Oh, I certainly didn't mean to imply that they could. "Collaborate" is probably the wrong word. There were Jews who were forced to participate in their own destruction, and Benda strikes me as one who would have refused to do so, and thus would have been murdered very early on.

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