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S06.E12: By Any Means Part Three 2018.01.02

2 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

I'm glad you mentioned this since I meant to ask after the funeral --no Nicole? No mention of Nicole? No expository "She's in Hong Kong and can't get back" ? (Has this already been discussed and I missed it?)

Nope, they didn't toss in a line explaining why she wasn't at the wedding, and didn't do it for the funeral, either.  I guess they were hoping we'd forget, or just understand the actor isn't available, and didn't want to draw attention to it, but Nicole's absence from both events was glaring.  Not only does she love Andy, she likes Sharon.  And we know how Sharon is with family; she'd consider Nicole her family just as Andy considers the Raydor kids his.  So in the time since they moved in together, dealt with Andy's heart attack, got engaged, etc. she'd have only gotten even closer to Nicole.  Nicole was out of the country when Andy collapsed and had to have surgery to remove his blood clot, so there's precedent for international travel, presumably for work, so they could have invented a recent job transfer to another country in the wedding episode, and then in the funeral episode had Emily reference Nicole checking in with her as to how Andy is doing because she's worried about him, or something like that.

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5 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

This!

This is why Sharon and Andy still liked Gus. This is why they kept telling Rusty to give Gus a chance and why Sharon kept asking Rusty if he had talked to Gus, and why Gus was invited to the wedding. Yes, Gus was pursued by Aidan, but he didnt reciprocate until after Rusty dumped him. 

But technically Rusty didn't dump him.  At the end of last season, it did feel as if Rusty was starting to be aware that they were growing apart.   Things like Gus telling his boss about Rusty's past certainly should have made Rusty question their future.  But Rusty's way of addressing it was to encourage Gus to pursue his dreams, even if it was in a different town from where Rusty was pursuing his.  While we did get the sense that he knew this distance would mean his relationship would eventually fizzle, Gus certainly didn't seem to think that way.  When he left, they were still in a relationship, just one that was now long distance.

Now, the show whiplashed a bit with Rusty's motivation this season.*  He didn't seem as sanguine about it all as last season...But maybe it's because Gus did sleep with Aiden while he and Rusty were together.  Maybe it was soon.  I don't know.

Tldr version, There's no reason for Gus to confront Rusty about being broken up because they weren't. 

*The writing for this is baffling.  If they wanted Rusty to end in a relationship, I can see why they might have decided to backtrack and keep Gus around.  What I don't understand is why they're writing him as an even worse potential partner than they did last season.  It would be more satisfying if one of the new cop additions could have been a second love.  It's be a good lesson for Rusty to learn that, despite his background, or even because of what he has overcome, he'd be desirable and have options. He has already left part of his past behind.  As he grows, it can be healthy to do that again even if what he leaves behind is just something he outgrew rather than being traumatic.  Kind of how he moved towards law after thinking journalism was his thing.

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I think Sharon's plea to Rusty to give Gus a second chance is ignoring a key issue: Rusty's trust issues. Rusty has had trust issues ever since we met him and understandably so. So, the only reason I wanted a long-distance relationship to work was so that Rusty wouldn't have yet another let-down when it came to trust and a person he loved. He didn't believe in the long-distance relationship but I think it would have been important for him and his trust issues for the long-distance relationship to work. Either that or a clean break. We all evolve and it wouldn't have hurt if this had been Rusty's first serious relationship and he would have moved on from that, grown, fell in love with someone else.

But since they decided to do the long-distance relationship, I think that it should have worked. I also think that cheating is the worst that could have happened to Rusty and I think, considering his past, it should have had more of an impact. Some may see it differently but I think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal in a relationship and I believe that the majority would have difficulties trusting their partner again under normal circumstances. Rusty's situation isn't normal circumstances, he has been betrayed so many times by a person he loved/who loved him/mattered to him, so it seems that it would be even more difficult if not impossible for him to ever trust Gus again. I really don't see how I'm supposed to believe that Rusty can honestly trust Gus again and I think that Sharon's plea was insensitive and seemed to completely ignore Rusty's past.

Maybe I could understand if Rusty felt guilty for pushing Gus away/blamed himself a little for Gus cheating because he pushed Gus away but I haven't been under the impression that that is the case. And again, with Sharon's death, it seems to be far too complex an issue to deal with in such a short amount of time.

I also think that with Sharon's recent death and Stroh, Rusty would have anything but a relationship on his mind and that any hint of a possible romance is misplaced.

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When did Sharon urge Rusty to give Gus another chance, and did that mean giving their relationship another try?  You'd think her remaining scenes would all be seared into my brain, but I can only remember her encouraging Rusty to listen to what Gus wanted to say, and then later them toasting in the kitchen to, basically, the hell with him. 

So this freaks me out, upping my anxiety factor over all this "by any means/no trial" stuff.  From James Duff:

Quote

I needed to go past reason and faith here — those were my themes from the first two episodes — and do something about risk. The determination to end Phillip Stroh’s crime spree is not the kind of determination that Sharon Raydor would have employed. We are seeing a different attitude being expressed. It would not have been possible to tell the story the way we told it with Sharon there. People will see what I mean.

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4 minutes ago, Bastet said:

 

So this freaks me out, upping my anxiety factor over all this "by any means/no trial" stuff.  From James Duff:

Oh, dear, this does not bode well for an ending I'll be OK with.  I told my daughter a while back I thought Rusty would kill Stroh, then I changed my mind - maybe I'm back to that now, and it doesn't make me happy.  

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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

But technically Rusty didn't dump him.  At the end of last season, it did feel as if Rusty was starting to be aware that they were growing apart.   Things like Gus telling his boss about Rusty's past certainly should have made Rusty question their future.  But Rusty's way of addressing it was to encourage Gus to pursue his dreams, even if it was in a different town from where Rusty was pursuing his.  While we did get the sense that he knew this distance would mean his relationship would eventually fizzle, Gus certainly didn't seem to think that way.  When he left, they were still in a relationship, just one that was now long distance.

We will just have to disagree. When I watched the episode where Rusty said no to moving in together and acted the way he acted - I felt that Gus was dumped.  Rusty is notorious for not coming out and saying anything specific, leaving people wondering where they stand with him. His actions were totally how I expected him to act while dumping someone. In real life, if I was Gus, I’d have felt free to move on to other relationships.   

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If this ends with a deliberate extrajudicial execution - by the squad, or by Rusty - I'm going to lose it.  What the hell kind of message would that be?  To end The Closer by acknowledging that Brenda stepped over the line and there needed to be consequences to that, then transition to Major Crimes where Sharon insists it's done the right way, and we see that work, and then, what?  Kill her off, give a great eulogy about the kind of cop and leader she was, but then forget all about that and end the whole franchise by shitting on everything she stood for?!  That cannot be where this is going, but there are all these signs it is. 

Just now, mythoughtis said:

In real life, if I was Gus, I’d have felt free to move on to other relationships.   

Gus's own understanding of the situation, as he headed off to prepare for the move to Napa, was that they were in a long-distance relationship.

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"The determination to end Phillip Stroh’s crime spree is not the kind of determination that Sharon Raydor would have employed."

WTF, more bullshit from James Duff?   Maybe I'm just picking on language here, but the way Duff phrases this is utter crap.  Sharon Raydor would not have condoned anyone wanting to kill Stroh, but the "determination to end Stroh's crime spree" can mean a myriad of things including a single capture and a life sentence, and that certainly WOULD have been Sharon's objective.   

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James Duff has made a habit of not understanding how his actual viewers see this show.   

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9 hours ago, Raja said:

The show put Lieutenant Cooper's SIS squad under SOB, probably for the possible spin-off. So Chief Howard was there to say, yes you can use my resources

Well, his wife might also be a target of Stroh.....there's that. 

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I haven't totally given up on the finale being satisfactactory—no way can it be satisfying, but maybe satisfactory.

The only twist I can imagine that might be actually border on satisfying would be if Dylan's not-girlfriend kills Stroh.

Or maybe Stroh steps into a closet to hide and wait to kill Dylan and Dylan's not-girlfriend, but it turns out Brenda is already in the closet, gun in black bag.

 

About the Gusty mess: No doubt it makes sense to all two audience members who carefully followed all the nuances of the relationship. For the rest of us: Not so much. They lost me way back when Gus was seemingly retconned from the brother of a homeless murder victim to Rusty's heart throb. I suppose it wasn't any worse than the transfiguration of Provenza's Patrice, but I thought when he left town, that was the end of him. The actor hasn't done anything since then. Maybe Duff or someone was feeling sorry for him?

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I can understand the trepidation about putting Stroh in jail until trial and then prison after sentencing, given how he gamed the system back in Season 2, but going outside the law to "end his spree" would be so wrong I can't find words for it.  Brenda's mis-steps crossed the line, but this would be charging past it, in my view, and be such anathema to Sharon's legacy.  I don't understand why the swerve back to flouting important rules.    

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I tend to fast forward through any Rusty scenes so I have nothing to add about the relationship to shed light one way or the other.  For whatever reason I thought they had broken up because Rusty was intimidated by the boss guy, but that was just an impression.  Either way, I agree with the poster above, we don't always end up with our first love. Rusty was not even sure he was gay, so for him to have forever love with the first person he has a relationship with before he has experienced dating, living on his own, etc. is possible, but not probable.  As someone stated, Rusty clearly has issues that need to be explored in therapy and the way he lashes out and/or responds to conflict indicates he needs to be on his own in order to mature.  His issues are more about him and less about anything Gus did or didn't do 

I believe that Stroh totally knows something is amiss.  All of a sudden everyone is constantly in Provenza's office AND leaving their cell phones.  Additionally, the acting was over the top.  It would have been nice for them to add the detail that they were continuing to text and talk about the case on their phones because if they stopped that as well those are huge red flags. 

Don't know if you can clone a phone that quickly...it always takes a lot longer on MIssion Impossible, James Bond and other shows ha ha..also why wouldn't he have immediately hung up?  A lot of men in his position do not even bother to answer numbers they do not know and certainly do not converse with a cold call.   I thought they also had Sharon's condo bugged?  If not, did they mention sweeping it and devices there?  If they hacked the station it would make sense they would check other areas. 

The ridiculousness of the security detail deserves no other mention, I already covered that. 

I did like Stroh's ant example. 

How does the hacker guy think he is going to escape Stroh when he did not have a plan already thought out?  It looked like the mother's house in the preview, so if Stroh did not want to kill her, why would he bother to go to her house after he doesn't get his money?   As for the girlfriend story, if she is not working with Stroh I think she will still be his downfall as Stroh predicted  because that is either how Major Crimes will catch up with him, or it is how Stroh will catch up with him when he figures out he has taken the money.  If he is smart, he will lie and tell Stroh that he figured out that the squad had found out his secret account, so he put it in his account instead because they were not on to that account yet. It was also idiotic that he would kill the step brother until he was sure for himself that he had the money and could access it. 

Gus was just annoying and I don't understand why he has to be in the same house as Rusty anyway.  I cannot believe it is the end of the series and we have to make time for a Rusty and Gus, "let's have sex" scene, especially when I have yet to find out what is happening to Julio!!!  If I don't get a Julio and Provenza (sir) moment before the end I will probably throw something at the television. 

It is not believable at this point that Stroh would have any reason to come after Rusty any more than anyone else that has annoyed him, so I hope that is a misdirect, but I'm sure it is not. It would go right along with all of the other things that are not believable about this season's episodes. 

I think either Flynn or Provenza should retire.  To be honest, I can't remember Andy being that great of a detective in either series, but with health issues and needed to process Sharon's death without turning to the bottle, working might be too much. 

I could care less if I see Nolan again. 

To quote Stroh again, I just need this to be over. 

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16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

About the Gusty mess: No doubt it makes sense to all two audience members who carefully followed all the nuances of the relationship.

I have followed all the nuances, because I only started watching this franchise a year and a half ago, so I've binge-watched and re-watched the entire thing recently - a lot of details are fresh in my mind.  After initially disliking him (when he was being a myopic little turd about Marianna and Paloma), I adored Gus, and his relationship with Rusty, for quite a time. 

That doesn't help this season's Gus/Rusty developments make any sense; I do not begin to understand how them getting back together right now would be presented as a good thing.  If Rusty decides to take him back, between that, killing off Sharon, and especially if it was to get her out of the way so Stroh could be taken out without any regard for the rule of law, James Duff will have completely lost me with what he thinks is a good way to end the show.

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1 hour ago, Bastet said:

When did Sharon urge Rusty to give Gus another chance, and did that mean giving their relationship another try? 

Good point. But does it really matter? I think what exactly she meant depends on how we interpreted it but what is there to listen about anyway? Is there really an excuse for cheating or an explanation that Gus can give? He cheated. After he was the one who was sure this long-distance relationship would work. I think rather than Rusty being angry at Gus for cheating this should have been more about Rusty's trust issues from the past but it seems that past issues were all but forgotten for most of S6.

 

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

So this freaks me out, upping my anxiety factor over all this "by any means/no trial" stuff.  From James Duff:

That they couldn't do what they're doing now with Stroh almost sounds like Duff got rid of Sharon just so that he could do whatever he wanted with Stroh and wouldn't have to worry about having to make the story fit with Sharon's character, the character he created this way. Which makes killing her off even worse, in my opinion. I keep stumbling over so many things that make me think that he did the character of Sharon such a disservice and that this isn't how you treat a character. Seeing this, I'd certainly think twice before hiring him.

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35 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Well, his wife might also be a target of Stroh.....there's that. 

It was even mentioned that Fritz didn't cut back the security detail on his wife.   God I hope she shows up for the finale.

I don't care who kills Stroh....just let him be killed.  He's raped and kiilled so many people, he deserves whatever he gets.

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37 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I did like Stroh's ant example. 

He stole that from Harry Lime in The Third Man.

I perhaps have a different take on what happened between Gus and Rusty.  My read of it was not so much that Gus wanted to get Rusty naked and horizontal, but more that he just wanted to split the bed, and if anything happened, it happened.  Perhaps that's too generous, and perhaps it makes Gus look even worse.  I'm not sure.

I am glad one one thing, and that's whether or not we see Brenda before the end, we've been told multiple times that she hasn't stopped investigating Stroh just because she's over running the DA's investigators bureau.  That seems like what we know of her.  I wonder if that picture is still somewhere in her new office.

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I am surprised at how much thought I have given to these characters this season.  I have been a very loyal "must watch" viewer since the very beginning, and have come to really "care" about these characters.  I am absolutely angry and sad at how this show is ending.  I will be removing TNT from my "favorites" list after the last episode.  I have also been a loyal reader of Sue Grafton's Alphabet series, and was so looking forward to the ending of that long book series with her last novel.  But with her death last week, I will never have an ending for those wonderful characters in whom I have invested so much time.  Two groups of fantastic characters with no ending.....yes, I am sad.  I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

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2 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I am surprised at how much thought I have given to these characters this season.  I have been a very loyal "must watch" viewer since the very beginning, and have come to really "care" about these characters.  I am absolutely angry and sad at how this show is ending.  I will be removing TNT from my "favorites" list after the last episode.  I have also been a loyal reader of Sue Grafton's Alphabet series, and was so looking forward to the ending of that long book series with her last novel.  But with her death last week, I will never have an ending for those wonderful characters in whom I have invested so much time.  Two groups of fantastic characters with no ending.....yes, I am sad.  I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

I got nothing for ya.  I am starting a new French series on Netflix I have heard good things about, and I am going to finally try Peaky Blinders.  I can't really think of one show that I watch right now that is must see television, most I watch out of habit, and cannot watch "real time," because I am busy fast forwarding.  Even Major Crimes was always a "habit" left over from the Closer, and I watched for Flynn, Provenza, Tao and Sanchez. 

Unfortunately I emoted about how I feel about Sue Grafton in the Jeopardy thread.  I feel your pain.  I get by on Law and Order and Monk reruns, and Columbo when I can catch it. 

I believe the comment about Fitz not cutting back on Brenda's security detail was just for Stroh (just for show, get it?) since they knew he was watching 

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4 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I believe the comment about Fitz not cutting back on Brenda's security detail was just for Stroh (just for show, get it?) since they knew he was watching 

Yes, Brenda has been among those assigned protection since back in the beginning of the season, when all these "accidents" and "suicides" started to look like a Stroh pattern.  No one's security was actually pulled; the talk about whose was and wasn't was for Stroh.

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2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I tend to fast forward through any Rusty scenes so I have nothing to add about the relationship to shed light one way or the other.  For whatever reason I thought they had broken up because Rusty was intimidated by the boss guy, but that was just an impression.  Either way, I agree with the poster above, we don't always end up with our first love. Rusty was not even sure he was gay, so for him to have forever love with the first person he has a relationship with before he has experienced dating, living on his own, etc. is possible, but not probable.  As someone stated, Rusty clearly has issues that need to be explored in therapy and the way he lashes out and/or responds to conflict indicates he needs to be on his own in order to mature.  His issues are more about him and less about anything Gus did or didn't do 

I believe that Stroh totally knows something is amiss.  All of a sudden everyone is constantly in Provenza's office AND leaving their cell phones.  Additionally, the acting was over the top.  It would have been nice for them to add the detail that they were continuing to text and talk about the case on their phones because if they stopped that as well those are huge red flags. 

Don't know if you can clone a phone that quickly...it always takes a lot longer on MIssion Impossible, James Bond and other shows ha ha..also why wouldn't he have immediately hung up?  A lot of men in his position do not even bother to answer numbers they do not know and certainly do not converse with a cold call.   I thought they also had Sharon's condo bugged?  If not, did they mention sweeping it and devices there?  If they hacked the station it would make sense they would check other areas. 

The ridiculousness of the security detail deserves no other mention, I already covered that. 

I did like Stroh's ant example. 

How does the hacker guy think he is going to escape Stroh when he did not have a plan already thought out?  It looked like the mother's house in the preview, so if Stroh did not want to kill her, why would he bother to go to her house after he doesn't get his money?   As for the girlfriend story, if she is not working with Stroh I think she will still be his downfall as Stroh predicted  because that is either how Major Crimes will catch up with him, or it is how Stroh will catch up with him when he figures out he has taken the money.  If he is smart, he will lie and tell Stroh that he figured out that the squad had found out his secret account, so he put it in his account instead because they were not on to that account yet. It was also idiotic that he would kill the step brother until he was sure for himself that he had the money and could access it. 

Gus was just annoying and I don't understand why he has to be in the same house as Rusty anyway.  I cannot believe it is the end of the series and we have to make time for a Rusty and Gus, "let's have sex" scene, especially when I have yet to find out what is happening to Julio!!!  If I don't get a Julio and Provenza (sir) moment before the end I will probably throw something at the television. 

It is not believable at this point that Stroh would have any reason to come after Rusty any more than anyone else that has annoyed him, so I hope that is a misdirect, but I'm sure it is not. It would go right along with all of the other things that are not believable about this season's episodes. 

I think either Flynn or Provenza should retire.  To be honest, I can't remember Andy being that great of a detective in either series, but with health issues and needed to process Sharon's death without turning to the bottle, working might be too much. 

I could care less if I see Nolan again. 

To quote Stroh again, I just need this to be over. 

I definitely feel that Stroh knows something is up and is plotting against his accomplice and planning to kill him like he usually does. I don’t think his accomplice is smart enough to figure that out, but Stroh is either going to try to kill him and try to rape and kill his girlfriend because she’s definitely the type that Stroh’s victims are, or one of them is going to kill Stroh. 

Here’s the way I hope it ends : the hacker is either killed by Stroh or captured by Major Crimes, they find clues form him that lead them to Stroh’s location along with help from the undercover Nolan,  where Stroh has the girlfriend and is preparing to kill her, and Major Crimes and SIS arrive before he does and have a stand-off with him before either Flynn and Provenza is able to get a shot off and kill him, saving the life of the hostage. That would be a satisfying ending to a storyline that should’ve ended long ago. 

I certainly don’t want Provenza to retire, he loves what he does and has done a great job in a difficult situation leading Major Crimes, he deserves to be put in command permanently and Mason should do that. But I could accept if Provenza wanted to spend more time with Patrice seeing that he now has a happy marriage and not wanting to do a challenging and dangerous job anymore, but I would prefer if he stays on as the boss, he deserves the promotion and I don’t think he wants to quit. As for Flynn, well I’m mixed. Part of me thinks he should stay on seeing that he would have something to think about other than Sharon’s death and that he likes his job and wouldn’t drink if he was still working, but part of me thinks retirement would be a better choice given his health issues and the fact that a stressful job plus Sharon’s death could worsen them and he wants to be around for both his and Sharon’s families and doesn’t want to risk another heart attack. 

I will be incredibly pissed as well if we don’t get a good Sanchez-Provenza scene, that relationship has been arguably the show’s best ( they are my 2 favorite characters as well ) and it has been around since the start, and we haven’t seen it much at all this season. I certainly hope we get a good scene between them displaying their close relationship before the show ends. 

I’m glad to see I’m not alone in disliking Gus, I find him to be an epic douchebag and now he is basically manipulating Rusty into sleeping with him. I don’t care how they end up and I think that relationship has become unhealthy. Duff’s personal bias is preventing him from seeing that people don’t watch the show for Rusty and don’t care if Gusty lives happily ever after, that’s not why they are watching. 

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6 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

Something that might help with your Major Crimes and Sue Graphton withdrawls is PBS's Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries. There's an episode on tomorrow night (here it's in the second hour of prime time) or, since it's PBS, you should be able to find at least some episodes free nine online (not "nine").

Edited by shapeshifter. Reason: Sleep typing?
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12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Something that might help with your Major Crimes and Sue Graphton withdrawls is PBS's Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries. There's an episode on tomorrow night (here it's in the second hour of prime time) or, since it's PBS, you should be able to find at least some episodes free nine. 

Thanks.  I haven't watched Miss Fisher, so I'll give it a try.  Maybe I will start watching Midsommer Murders from the beginning.  I haven't seen those episodes for a long time.

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I think I will miss Flynn and Provenza the most, and their once-or-twice a season "funny" episodes.

Stroh will prolly be killed by HackerBoy or Rusty. Just a hunch.

Funny, for a show that supposedly appeals to the "wrong" demo, there is certainly a lot of buzz on the 'Net...(at 67, I'm way outside The Demo)

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44 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Thanks.  I haven't watched Miss Fisher, so I'll give it a try.  Maybe I will start watching Midsommer Murders from the beginning.  I haven't seen those episodes for a long time.

FYI, Miss Fisher also is on Netflix, if you have that.

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The melodrama of this season just seems so wrong for this show.  I am rewatching season 5 at the moment, and in the last few episodes of that season things started to skew towards over-the -top.  Perhaps this melodrama is what the TNT bosses wanted and Duff initially tried to respond to their demands in order to save the show.  Then when the show wasn't saved he dialled it up to 11 to make a point?  Because it scarcely seems the same show now.  I can scarcely bring myself to care what happens to Phillip Stroh.

Rusty and Gus had definitely not split up when Rusty told Gus to go to Napa.  However, Rusty clearly believed their relationship would end, that Aden would get his way.  I was really surprised this year that they brought Gus back to start with, and then that Rusty would be so shocked that he did cheat.  I really liked Gus for a year or two there, until they completely changed his personality for 'drama' and turned him into a jackass.  Remember the days when a lot of us couldn't believe someone like Gus would put up with Rusty?  Now it is the other way around.

However, I will be really annoyed if they don't end up together after all this.  If they don't, then he could have never come back, or he could have just disappeared after a blow up in episode five or six and all this stuff has been wasted time that should have been devoted to other characters.  If we've had to sit through weeks of this stuff, it should at least have some end result.  Not a popular opinion, but at least there should be some point to it all other than 'no, can't forgive you' which could have been enforced weeks ago.

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The last episode needs to be two hours.  Too many loose ends left.

I will miss Flynn and Provenza the most.  Loved their comedic episodes.

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Did Major Crimes do any comedic episodes with Flynn and Provenza this last season?  I missed most of it.

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1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

Did Major Crimes do any comedic episodes with Flynn and Provenza this last season?  I missed most of it.

I don't think there has been any Flynn and Provenza comedy since Flynn started calling "the Chief" "Sharon."

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We didn't get a Flynn/Provenza caper in season one, got one in seasons two and three, then they turned them into Flynn/Provenza/Buzz comedies of errors (because heaven forbid we not shoehorn Buzz into things) in seasons four and five, and then we didn't get one at all in this final season.

Edited by Bastet.
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2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I don't think there has been any Flynn and Provenza comedy since Flynn started calling "the Chief" "Sharon."

That is when I stopped watching.....until recently.  It ruined the show for me.  Thanks!

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8 hours ago, torqy said:

I think I will miss Flynn and Provenza the most, and their once-or-twice a season "funny" episodes.

Stroh will prolly be killed by HackerBoy or Rusty. Just a hunch.

Funny, for a show that supposedly appeals to the "wrong" demo, there is certainly a lot of buzz on the 'Net...(at 67, I'm way outside The Demo)

I don’t watch regular because I  not a big procedural person and when I do I don’t really comment.  I do know the characters and their history and I am a huge fan of Mary McDonell.  She was my initial draw to the show even after I long gave up on The Closer which I also watched occasionally.

That being said I don’t think anyone will end up killing Stroh.  There are way too may people saying they will and want to for it to actually happen.  My guess is that Provenza or Rusty or even Flynn will end up in a stand off with him and it will look like they have the chance to kill him without any repercussions but when the commercial break ends we find out they didn’t.  Why?  Because Sharon wouldn’t have wanted them too.  It simply came down to that.  What Sharon would have wanted.

They could get away with murder but they realize it would ruin the memory of a woman they all loved.  Or something like that.

Edited by Chaos Theory.
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16 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

 Two groups of fantastic characters with no ending.....yes, I am sad.  I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

Wonderful fairly lighthearted new detective show on Netflix called "The Indian Detective," but there are only four episodes.  If you get Amazon streaming, a Canadian cop series called "19-2" is excellent.

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17 hours ago, catrice2 said:

It is not believable at this point that Stroh would have any reason to come after Rusty any more than anyone else that has annoyed him, so I hope that is a misdirect, but I'm sure it is not. It would go right along with all of the other things that are not believable about this season's episodes.

agreed. And I am glad you brought this up because I forgot to mention this in my comment before. Now that we know Stroh is looking for his money, does anyone else feel like that's a huge letdown (that's probably a poor word choice here) as the reason for him hunting down the random people on the list Rusty compiled?  So he hunts down all the other people with Cypress accounts his mother has been paying off for years. People who PROTECTED HIM. and then he kills them ...? Hunh? I thought for sure these people were on Stroh murder list for slights, imagined or real, from his childhood. Like the former teacher and former step mother, etc., I anticipated he had an actual reason for hating them and killing them. Nope! just a list of people who got money from his mom and potentially had info on how to find her. (Am I mad that a sociopath serial killer didn't have a good reason to kill someone? Yes, yes I am!)

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Nolan's absence is too glaring for it not to have a big payoff. 

In the back of my head, I still have the weird notion that Sharon is alive - although I can't fathom how it would relate to the Stroh case or how she would allow her loved ones to think she is dead. It's likely the old soap opera mantra: no dead body means that they aren't really dead. Duff spoke of happy endings and I can't see how Andy gets one otherwise. 

HackerBoy is really out of his league with Stroh; He is a Dead Man Walking. 

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16 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I am surprised at how much thought I have given to these characters this season.  I have been a very loyal "must watch" viewer since the very beginning, and have come to really "care" about these characters.  I am absolutely angry and sad at how this show is ending.  I will be removing TNT from my "favorites" list after the last episode.  I have also been a loyal reader of Sue Grafton's Alphabet series, and was so looking forward to the ending of that long book series with her last novel.  But with her death last week, I will never have an ending for those wonderful characters in whom I have invested so much time.  Two groups of fantastic characters with no ending.....yes, I am sad.  I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

not knowing what else you watch, my go-to recommendations are always The West Wing, Gilmore Girls and Jane the Virgin. And you can't go wrong with Psych, but that might not be the detective show you're looking for... of course, only Jane is currently on TV. My favorite show currently on television is Madam Secretary. I actually look forward to it. And if it wasn't screwed up by football each week, i would probably even watch it in real time.

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32 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Wonderful fairly lighthearted new detective show on Netflix called "The Indian Detective," but there are only four episodes.  If you get Amazon streaming, a Canadian cop series called "19-2" is excellent.

Vera on Acorn TV is very good.  Also Loch Ness (NOT about the monster) is a good detective mini series.  We have always loved the older British detective series such as A Touch of Frost and Inspector Lynley.  Also Endeavor on PBS.

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23 minutes ago, LisaM said:

Nolan's absence is too glaring for it not to have a big payoff. 

In the back of my head, I still have the weird notion that Sharon is alive - although I can't fathom how it would relate to the Stroh case or how she would allow her loved ones to think she is dead. It's likely the old soap opera mantra: no dead body means that they aren't really dead. Duff spoke of happy endings and I can't see how Andy gets one otherwise. 

HackerBoy is really out of his league with Stroh; He is a Dead Man Walking. 

"No dead body means that they aren't really dead" is also a scifi axiom. Even if Duff & co. didn't want to show her body, they could have shown the faces of Andy and the kids at a wake or other Catholic ceremonial viewing as they responded to her body. But I guess that too could be fake. Oy. Maybe after the next episode, even if we still have no greater reason to think she's still alive, there will be a burgeoning of Sharon Rador Lives! fan fiction.

 

28 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

My favorite show currently on television is Madam Secretary. I actually look forward to it.

I agree. IMO, Madam Secretary's Elizabeth McCord is Sharon Rador's equal in all ways of character and morals, as well as power, and is a kick-arse negotiator.

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17 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

If you have Amazon Prime, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is terrific. (It's from Amy Sherman-Palladino of Gilmore Girls, my all-time favorite show.) I am making my way through Person of Interest (also excellent) and Leverage (which just disappeared from Netflix). The 3 seasons of Broadchurch are a must-watch police show set in Britain. If you like comedies, The Good Place is wonderful.

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4 hours ago, luvmylabs said:

Vera on Acorn TV is very good.  Also Loch Ness (NOT about the monster) is a good detective mini series.  We have always loved the older British detective series such as A Touch of Frost and Inspector Lynley.  Also Endeavor on PBS.

Yes. I love Vera.  Endeavor's last season was not my favorite.  Love the Lynley books, the series was just ok to me. 

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On 1/3/2018 at 9:12 PM, CalicoKitty said:

I am surprised at how much thought I have given to these characters this season.  I have been a very loyal "must watch" viewer since the very beginning, and have come to really "care" about these characters.  I am absolutely angry and sad at how this show is ending.  I will be removing TNT from my "favorites" list after the last episode.  I have also been a loyal reader of Sue Grafton's Alphabet series, and was so looking forward to the ending of that long book series with her last novel.  But with her death last week, I will never have an ending for those wonderful characters in whom I have invested so much time.  Two groups of fantastic characters with no ending.....yes, I am sad.  I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

For a procedural with outstanding character development, nothing beats Homicide: Life on the Street..

Gritty... but not in the dark twisted way today's gritty shows are. Gritty because you care so much about the characters and what they go through in a tough job. Emmy worthy performances by both regulars and guest stars. JK Simmons playing a neo nazi in one will leave you feeling like you can barely breathe, and a heartwrenching (but not overwrought) episode with Robin Williams will haunt you forever. One of my 3 favorite series of all time (with The West Wing and Due South)

Uh... topic, topic... where's my topic... just had another theory of how Stroh gets taken out... Gus shoots him with Rusty's gun but somehow dies in the process. Voila! No need for anyone to soul-search about how Sharon would have reacted, plus the fans get the happy ending they want!

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Maybe I haven't been paying attention.  How did Andrea figure out that all of those seemingly random deaths (the people plastered all over Rusty's bedroom walls) were related to Stroh?  Rusty just realized that one woman was the sister the first girl Stroh killed.  If he just pieced that together, why was she already on the list?  As I said, I just may not have been paying attention.

Remind me that if I every hire bodyguards they are to follow me EVERYWHERE or at least do a thorough inspection of a room (or pool) before I enter.

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18 hours ago, slothgirl said:

For a procedural with outstanding character development, nothing beats Homicide: Life on the Street..

Gritty... but not in the dark twisted way today's gritty shows are. Gritty because you care so much about the characters and what they go through in a tough job. Emmy worthy performances by both regulars and guest stars. JK Simmons playing a neo nazi in one will leave you feeling like you can barely breathe, and a heartwrenching (but not overwrought) episode with Robin Williams will haunt you forever. One of my 3 favorite series of all time (with The West Wing and Due South)

Uh... topic, topic... where's my topic... just had another theory of how Stroh gets taken out... Gus shoots him with Rusty's gun but somehow dies in the process. Voila! No need for anyone to soul-search about how Sharon would have reacted, plus the fans get the happy ending they want!

Oh my, a Homicide: Life on the Street (because any REAL fan never leaves off the "life on the street") lover!  I cannot express enough my love for the Lt, Frank, Bayliss, Mike, Lewis and various others who came and went.   I am still salty about how Mike went out. I have no idea why this show was canceled.  I loved Clark Johnson in "Night Heat" a Canadian series that came on late at night when I was a little girl.  That too was a great series if someone can find it on DVD.  What a cool theme song!!!  Now that I remembered Clark and that show..I am headed to Youtube to see if they have episodes! 

Ok..my on topic.....Sykes also has gotten no air time.  Why was she with Ms Annoying when they went to the step father's house and found him dead?  They rushed in before Paige had called it in....oh wait, was that this episode? 

Ok, does Dylan's "girlfriend" know he has a camera in her room, or is he paying her for that? 

Edited by catrice2.
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23 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Ok, does Dylan's "girlfriend" know he has a camera in her room, or is he paying her for that? 

And does she ever do anything but sleep and lounge? Does she eat or poop or buy groceries?

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I'm pretty sure she's doing more than "sleeping" in that bed.

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46 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Ok, does Dylan's "girlfriend" know he has a camera in her room, or is he paying her for that? 

There's no indication she knows the camera is there; if she did, I think some of her phone conversations with him would be different.  The fact he watches her have sex with other clients, and just generally spies on her, isn't something she's aware of, I don't think.

4 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

Maybe I haven't been paying attention.  How did Andrea figure out that all of those seemingly random deaths (the people plastered all over Rusty's bedroom walls) were related to Stroh?

That goes back to the beginning of the season, actually to the end of last season, and I'm not sure the specifics of how someone initially figured out seemingly accidental deaths in different jurisdictions were people connected to Stroh were ever addressed -- I think we learned of it after the connection had already been discovered, when Fritz gave Sharon the first file, and then by the beginning of this season Andrea had added to it.

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On January 3, 2018 at 9:12 PM, CalicoKitty said:

I am surprised at how much thought I have given to these characters this season.  I have been a very loyal "must watch" viewer since the very beginning, and have come to really "care" about these characters.  I am absolutely angry and sad at how this show is ending.  I will be removing TNT from my "favorites" list after the last episode.  I have also been a loyal reader of Sue Grafton's Alphabet series, and was so looking forward to the ending of that long book series with her last novel.  But with her death last week, I will never have an ending for those wonderful characters in whom I have invested so much time.  Two groups of fantastic characters with no ending.....yes, I am sad.  I now have no "must watch" shows (except HTGAWM).   Any suggestions?

This show will end with someone else killing Stroh, no one we care about will do it.

I think it's very difficult for show runners.  Fans don't all want the same things and many a show that has done what the fans wanted wound up going down in flames (Moonlighting, Lois and Clark).  The fans don't always know what's best for a show.  

Saying that, I think it was wrong to kill off Sharon.  To me it made zero sense.  I could have accepted it if they showed Sharon having heart issues years ago and it got progressively worse and then she died.  That would have felt more organic.  But this seemed like a cheap shot, like someone didn't know how to end this show and thought it was "real edgy" to kill off a main character.  

In fact, I really hate it when shows kill off a main character because I have a sense as to why show runners do it and it has nothing to do with being edgy (more like greed IMO).

My next "must watch" show, The Alienist", which I have been waiting to see on the screen, since I first read the book, over twenty years ago.

Edited by Neurochick.
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1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

 

Saying that, I think it was wrong to kill off Sharon.  To me it made zero sense.  I could have accepted it if they showed Sharon having heart issues years ago and it got progressively worse and then she died.  That would have felt more organic.  But this seemed like a cheap shot, like someone didn't know how to end this show and thought it was "real edgy" to kill off a main character.  

 

I don't think anyone else has noted this but what really made no sense is that Andy had heart trouble but then suddenly Sharon has much worse heart trouble?  Huh? What were they thinking?

Edited by GussieK.
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10 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I don't think anyone else has noted this but what really made no sense is that Andy had heart trouble but then suddenly Sharon has much worse heart trouble?  Huh? What were they thinking?

That they (Duff) needed something that he could kill Sharon with? ;-)

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