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S06.E10: By Any Means Parts One and Two 2017.12.26

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Loved all of the family stuff, with Rusty/Flynn and Rusty/Siblings, I was trying to remember their first interactions, and, couldn't remember if they were cool from the beginning of if they didn't like Rusty.

Morrigan, Ricky was very skeptical about Rusty initially, gave him the cold shoulder and tried to talk Sharon out of the adoption.  She gave him a much needed verbal smackdown after which he gave Rusty a chance, and they gradually developed a good relationship.  We didn't see as much of Emily's interaction with him, but it always seemed at least cordial, and she seemed sympathetic to him re: the bio mom situation.

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10 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Ok,  Unwisely watched the second episode.  Is there anything more annoying than the accomplice?  Why was he given so much screen time?  He got more screen time than Stroh!!   This was a hot mess...and more of the Rusty show....instead of the detectives we have watched for several years. Why oh why are Andy and Provenza....or even Buzz or Tao not being shown figuring this out?  Tao knows that in either an episode here or on the Closer the computers at that station were hacked...the first time the idea of a hack at the restaurant or anywhere else came up they should have immediately checked all devices. 

It was the one with Jamie Bamber as the photographer who tried to get rid of the MMA fighter using jealousy  only to watch him kill the woman.

Assuming uber hacker was detected that makes motorcycle helmet stalker Detective Nolan. And we have gone from "it is always the husband" to a show with more than twice as many plot twist to get to the conclusion than is good story telling 

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13 minutes ago, Raja said:

It was the one with Jamie Bamber as the photographer who tried to get rid of the MMA fighter using jealousy  only to watch him kill the woman.

Assuming uber hacker was detected that makes motorcycle helmet stalker Detective Nolan. And we have gone from "it is always the husband" to a show with more than twice as many plot twist to get to the conclusion than is good story telling 

Ohhh, I just assumed Motorcycle stalker was Stroh since we've seen him in that helmet earlier. It would be really cool if they did catch on to the hack and were running a Sting operation.

Now I'm pissed I deleted the episodes so I can't re-watch that scene again.

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With Lieutenant Provenza going on about there will be no court case and we are going to put the dog down I am reminded of the old LAPD SIS ,before Three Strikes laws was infamous for ignoring lessor crimes and forcing their target into a gunfight. Him going old school with a forced retirement like Chief Johnson got remains in play. Instead of the modern SIS with LT Cooper you use the undercover PTSD from playing a Nazi, which they called back in the first story arc, to do the dirty deed.

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Random thoughts....

The protection detail for Rios clearly failed big time... But it also seemed to me that all that talk about how the kid rented the house next door so Stroh could sneak in while she was swimming didn't make sense. I got the impression during the killing scene that Stroh had been in the pool the whole time wearing his pool-liner colored wet-suit. You can forgive them for not closely examining the pool itself, because who would expect a killer to be waiting under the water in plain sight at the bottom (but still very hard to see)? At the same time, he'd be MUCH more visible OUTSIDE the pool, trying to sneak around. The only reason for his get-up to match the pool would be for him to be in it waiting, so they went to a lot of trouble to get him onto the property while no one was even there watching to see if someone came onto the property. (and clearly no cameras either). I suppose getting him OFF the property quickly was also important, but since no one was watching access from neighboring property, it wasn't that hard. Hop the fence and you're out.

Duff's intentions: I think he's just oblivious. He's been oblivious from the beginning with the focus on the Rusty storyline despite so many fans feeling it was too much. His comments (that I don't remember where I read) that the ending would be very satisfying and make the fans happy smacks of a sincere, but total disconnect with the fans actual feelings. That's what has me convinced that Rusty will rule the day killing Stroh. Since Rusty's what Duff cares most about, he assumes we feel the same way despite all evidence to the contrary. He's convinced himself that we'll all feel the end is satisfying, gratifying, happy, whatever, as long as Rusty comes out on top and ends things by tying up the "main" storyline of the series: Stroh vs Rusty.

The one thing that has me a smidge intrigued was that on the video of the Stroh wiz-kid visiting Stroh-mom, in the brief time before it got scrambled, it looked just like Rusty to me. And then someone (Tao?) commented, hey he looks familiar. I'm not saying it was Rusty.. that would be too dumb even for this pile of rot. So either there's going to be some reveal about the kid, or they're just hammering the parallels between Rusty and his adversaries WAY too hard. Probably the latter, given how things are going, because let's not forget.. the main theme is always RUSTY!!!! even when he's not even on screen. Having 2 of him makes it easier to keep the focus on him.

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Really?  Introducing a circa-1990s cliched, omniscient, mad-tech-skills psycho super-villain to be killed off by the even more super-super-super villain in the last four episodes of the show?  What utter crap.   Yes, all the friends and family stuff was touching and sad, but the introduction of psycho super-boy into the story at this point pulled me right out of the meaningful stuff.  This is just pathetic storytelling.  Lazy, empty, tired, stupid and fucking insulting to fans of the show - a complete shitshow of an ending for a great series.  

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38 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

Random thoughts....

The protection detail for Rios clearly failed big time... But it also seemed to me that all that talk about how the kid rented the house next door so Stroh could sneak in while she was swimming didn't make sense. I got the impression during the killing scene that Stroh had been in the pool the whole time wearing his pool-liner colored wet-suit. You can forgive them for not closely examining the pool itself, because who would expect a killer to be waiting under the water in plain sight at the bottom (but still very hard to see)? At the same time, he'd be MUCH more visible OUTSIDE the pool, trying to sneak around. The only reason for his get-up to match the pool would be for him to be in it waiting, so they went to a lot of trouble to get him onto the property while no one was even there watching to see if someone came onto the property. (and clearly no cameras either). I suppose getting him OFF the property quickly was also important, but since no one was watching access from neighboring property, it wasn't that hard. Hop the fence and you're out.

Duff's intentions: I think he's just oblivious. He's been oblivious from the beginning with the focus on the Rusty storyline despite so many fans feeling it was too much. His comments (that I don't remember where I read) that the ending would be very satisfying and make the fans happy smacks of a sincere, but total disconnect with the fans actual feelings. That's what has me convinced that Rusty will rule the day killing Stroh. Since Rusty's what Duff cares most about, he assumes we feel the same way despite all evidence to the contrary. He's convinced himself that we'll all feel the end is satisfying, gratifying, happy, whatever, as long as Rusty comes out on top and ends things by tying up the "main" storyline of the series: Stroh vs Rusty.

The one thing that has me a smidge intrigued was that on the video of the Stroh wiz-kid visiting Stroh-mom, in the brief time before it got scrambled, it looked just like Rusty to me. And then someone (Tao?) commented, hey he looks familiar. I'm not saying it was Rusty.. that would be too dumb even for this pile of rot. So either there's going to be some reveal about the kid, or they're just hammering the parallels between Rusty and his adversaries WAY too hard. Probably the latter, given how things are going, because let's not forget.. the main theme is always RUSTY!!!! even when he's not even on screen. Having 2 of him makes it easier to keep the focus on him.

I read years ago that Rusty is a Duff alter-ego character, the one he puts most of himself into, and that makes all the Rusty stuff make so much more sense.  

Having to let go of the hope that Sharon was just running a ruse to draw Stroh out was heart-breaking.  G. W. Bailey delivered a scene to remember forever with that eulogy.  It pushed all my buttons, for sure!  I'm currently re-watching for the second time - much to notice and think about.  

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Anyone know what is going on with the airing of the final 2 episodes. When they started doubling up the episodes, my guide showed 2 on December 26th and final 2 on January 2nd. 

Now my.guide shows only 1 episode on January 2nd and then the series finale not airing till January 16th !!! Wtf..would they really.do that? Make you wait 2 full weeks until the final?  Anyone got any other info? Thank.

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2 minutes ago, Poohbear617 said:

Anyone know what is going on with the airing of the final 2 episodes. When they started doubling up the episodes, my guide showed 2 on December 26th and final 2 on January 2nd. 

Now my.guide shows only 1 episode on January 2nd and then the series finale not airing till January 16th !!! Wtf..would they really.do that? Make you wait 2 full weeks until the final?  Anyone got any other info? Thank.

Google says 1/2 and 1/9 for the final 2 episodes

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9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Loved all of the family stuff, with Rusty/Flynn and Rusty/Siblings, I was trying to remember their first interactions, and, couldn't remember if they were cool from the beginning of if they didn't like Rusty.

Definitely not cool from the beginning, at least on Ricky's part; Sweet Revenge is the fantastic season three episode in which Ricky comes to visit for the first time since Sharon announced her intention to adopt Rusty.  Rusty told Sharon Ricky had been weird on the phone ever since the adoption announcement, and was quite apprehensive about the visit.  Sure enough, Ricky (who'd been listening to Jack) told Sharon he was afraid Rusty was hustling her, and she was lonely since he and Emily don't come home as often anymore, etc.  Sharon told him about himself in one of the greatest lectures in the history of motherhood.  That episode ended with a lovely scene at the dinner table, with Sharon, Ricky, and Rusty, talking about what family means. 

That's the episode with the great exchange between Sharon and Rusty, about Ricky's attitude (before Ricky talks to Sharon), when Sharon says pushback between siblings is natural; when she was pregnant with Ricky, Emily said several times she didn't want a brother.  Rusty says, "She was three," and Sharon perfectly delivers, "They're always three."  That I love that scene so much is what made it particularly annoying to me that in Sharon's video they wrote Ricky as the first born and no one picked up on that continuity error.  (And characterization error, since Ricky might as well wear a t-shirt that says, "I'm used to being the baby of the family!")

Oops; I didn't see there was a page two of this thread when I quoted and answered, so my apologies for the repeat information.

Edited by Bastet.
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Originally By Any Means was scheduled for part 1 Jan 2, part 2 Jan 9, and parts 3 & 4 on Jan 16.  They shifted things around, doubling up during a time they apparently don't care about, and then spreading parts 3 & 4 across two Tuesdays.  

A.K.A. TNT bosses Just Don't Care.

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4 hours ago, jrlr said:

Really?  Introducing a circa-1990s cliched, omniscient, mad-tech-skills psycho super-villain to be killed off by the even more super-super-super villain in the last four episodes of the show?  What utter crap.   Yes, all the friends and family stuff was touching and sad, but the introduction of psycho super-boy into the story at this point pulled me right out of the meaningful stuff.  This is just pathetic storytelling.  Lazy, empty, tired, stupid and fucking insulting to fans of the show - a complete shitshow of an ending for a great series.  

The same lazy deus ex machina of Criminal Minds: Oh it's this one character who can see and hear *everything* - all the better to cram in a ton of plot progress in very little time.

I really didn't think the show could get any worse before last night's episodes, and then I watched them. What a mess.

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6 hours ago, slothgirl said:

That's what has me convinced that Rusty will rule the day killing Stroh. Since Rusty's what Duff cares most about, he assumes we feel the same way despite all evidence to the contrary. He's convinced himself that we'll all feel the end is satisfying, gratifying, happy, whatever, as long as Rusty comes out on top and ends things by tying up the "main" storyline of the series: Stroh vs Rusty.

That's what worries me, how the rest of the characters are going to wind up, if Duff thinks the main arc of the series was Rusty vs. Stroh. 

For me, it was the evolution of Sharon's relationships with the squad, and with Rusty.  And because Sharon is the linchpin of the show, if you take her away before it ends, then the way it ends needs to reflect how she influenced these people; for Sharon to be dead as this universe wraps up, it needs to go out in a way that honors her.  If Rusty, Provenza, or anyone goes on the wrong side of the law in getting Stroh, I am going to be livid.  Sharon’s legacy was trusting the law to do its job; sometimes it doesn’t work the way we want it to, but we have to stand by it.  We need to uphold it, not toss it aside when we want a different result in a particular instance.  It’s how this civil rights lawyer loved Major Crimes in a way she could never love The Closer

Sharon dedicated all these years to leading Rusty to make good choices – not telling him which choice to make, unless push really came to shove, but guiding him towards realizing the right choice himself.  It was beautiful and gratifying to watch.  If this comes down to Rusty ignoring all protocol and common sense (not to mention his mother's final request to him) and nevertheless achieving a Charles Bronson-style "victory" over Stroh, despite the implausibility, just because Duff has a Mary Sue, I’m going to freak.my.fucking.shit. 

I hope Provenza's eulogy ("I ask that, with Sharon as our example, we leave here today recommitted to the rule of law and dedicated to the cause of justice for which she sacrificed her life") means that won't happen.  If Stroh is going to be killed, rather than arrested, which seems to be where they are headed, I want it to be a good shoot.  Something Captain Raydor of FID would clear the officer of.  I guess I want it to be Provenza or Andy who does it.  But Brenda is gone, Sharon is gone, Rios is gone, and women all over TV are gone – at this point, I have a strong desire for Amy and Andrea to be the team who brings it to an end.

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I have to say I was extremely disappointed with how not many people that we knew were at Sharon’s funeral.

Yeah, I don't want to harp on what we didn't get, when what we did get I liked.  And I understand the logistical issue of paying a bunch of actors to just sit there for half a day, if they're even available in the first place.  But Pope, Fritz, Brenda, Morales, Dr. Joe, Sharon Beck, Judge Grove, Judge Richwood, Cooper, Nicole - if this was real life, these people would have been there, and maybe Jack Raydor, too (at least they referenced Emily and Ricky going to dinner with him).  To have so many of them not there was inevitably noticeable, but it didn't take me out of the scene; Provenza's eulogy was so great, as were the reaction shots we did get, so I just sat there crying like one of the mourners, which I am.

I resent the hell out of TNT for cancelling this show, and then for doubling up episodes.  I would have liked to remain in the mental space created by part one (saying good-bye to Sharon, and accepting the need to move forward without her) for a week before delving into the nuts and bolts of the Stroh investigation.  There was already more of that than I'd have wanted in part one, and having part two start right away just didn't work for me. 

Edited by Bastet.
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5 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Brenda is gone, Sharon is gone, Rios is gone, and women all over TV are gone – at this point, I have a strong desire for Amy and Andrea to be the team who brings it to an end.

Yeah, I don't want to harp on what we didn't get, when what we did get I liked.  And I understand the logistical issue of paying a bunch of actors to just sit there for half a day, if they're even available in the first place.  But Pope, Fritz, Brenda, Morales, Dr. Joe, Sharon Beck, Judge Grove, Judge Richwood, Cooper, Nicole - if this was real life, these people would have been there, and maybe Jack Raydor, too (at least they referenced Emily and Ricky going to dinner with him).  To have so many of them not there was inevitably noticeable, but it didn't take me out of the scene; Provenza's eulogy was so great, as were the reaction shots we did get, so I just sat there crying like one of the mourners, which I am. 

I so agree about the disappearance of the women.  Sharon should have gotten Stroh!

As for the funeral, it seemed to me quite small  for someone of her rank and length of service in the LAPD.  I would have thought many more people would have attended, and certainly the ones listed above.  Provenza's eulogy does make one overlook that more readily, but it still bothered me.  Clearly they wanted to have it in the little church she felt so deeply about, so I guess that made it worth sacrificing some verisimilitude.  Bugged me, though.  

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Yes, a career police officer of her rank, there would be hundreds of people, if not more. But I get the logistics of filming so I let that go.

Re Rusty taking out Stroh, Sharon's speech to Rusty did emphasize that the gun was a last resort and he had other tools to bring down Stroh. I'm hoping that means that the gun is a misdirect. Provenza continually stating out loud to whomever will listen that he intends that Stroh never see a courtroom seems reckless even for him. I'm wondering if it is a clue that they know he's listening and they figured out hacker boy's virus. That would make me happier about these last 2 episodes because I hate that this kid seems to have outwitted them. Even so, I don't like the structure of the episodes. These are our last few glimpses of our guys and much of it is through the eyes of this kid. Provenza can roll his eyes at Buzz's "at my reserve training class" comments; hacker creep doesn't have that right. 

And I swear, If anything happens to Amy or Andrea or hell, even Paige, I will be pissed. 

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Ok, a couple things here. 1st when I saw Stroh put on that motorcycle helmet with shield down it made me think I saw it before. Last  episode when Gus followed  Rusty into the elevator and was telling him about his great new job, I swear that the motorcycle helmet was in the back of that very crowded elevator, or I'm nuts (sorry.have not had time to go back and check).

2nd wouldn't Morales given an autopsy on Rios. I saw the exact same type of murder on an old CSI episode, and victim had bruises. Wouldn't  Rios have bruises the way they were holding her wrists? And wouldn't she have seen bubbles in the water from their air tanks before she got in? Plus I can't believe NOBODY saw 2 grown men walking around in wet suits and airtanks?

3rd and final: over the summer on 60 Minutes they had a story with hackers who immediately hacked Leslie Stahls phone and turned on her camera and video and then was able to hack her contacts phones as well. He told how it is used to rob people who have no idea their phone is on

 I remember at the end he told Stahl to always make sure the camera is covered, and he said a small piece of electrical tape would do. That story freaked me out , made me paranoid and I now have a small piece of tape on my phone. I guess I wrote this because of a couple comments about all the cameras the partner has going, I am doubtful he would have it so sophisticated,  but I did see it as possible, so just adding my 2 cents.

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18 minutes ago, Poohbear617 said:

Ok, a couple things here. 1st when I saw Stroh put on that motorcycle helmet with shield down it made me think I saw it before. Last  episode when Gus followed  Rusty into the elevator and was telling him about his great new job, I swear that the motorcycle helmet was in the back of that very crowded elevator, or I'm nuts (sorry.have not had time to go back and check).

2nd wouldn't Morales given an autopsy on Rios. I saw the exact same type of murder on an old CSI episode, and victim had bruises. Wouldn't  Rios have bruises the way they were holding her wrists? And wouldn't she have seen bubbles in the water from their air tanks before she got in? Plus I can't believe NOBODY saw 2 grown men walking around in wet suits and airtanks?

3rd and final: over the summer on 60 Minutes they had a story with hackers who immediately hacked Leslie Stahls phone and turned on her camera and video and then was able to hack her contacts phones as well. He told how it is used to rob people who have no idea their phone is on

 I remember at the end he told Stahl to always make sure the camera is covered, and he said a small piece of electrical tape would do. That story freaked me out , made me paranoid and I now have a small piece of tape on my phone. I guess I wrote this because of a couple comments about all the cameras the partner has going, I am doubtful he would have it so sophisticated,  but I did see it as possible, so just adding my 2 cents.

It was on of those SEAL, special operations  rebreathing units that do not let bubbles escape. With a pool colored suit, no doubt pocked up at REI for just this scnario. That mom's trust fund was hidden from the FBI and is still funding Stroh is up there with uber hacker and Deputy Rios home in inflated plot items

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This overall is just such a disappointing way to end a high quality show. First by killing off Sharon, and now with Stroh and his super villain accomplice dominating the final 4 episodes, such a pathetic way to end a great show. Just cliched, over the top villains dominating the episodes which is frustrating to me, I want to see a lot of moments with the main characters since we will never see them again, and instead we are getting a bunch of Stroh and his accomplice and his accomplices girlfriend. 

I don’t know what Duff’s agenda is, if he is trying to stick it to TNT for sabotaging the show so he’s giving them a subpar product, if he’s trolling the fans for some unknown reason, or if he’s just clueless. I know Rusty is his favorite and he identifies with him so I’m sure he will give Rusty closure but I don’t think he will give anything to the others and that’s disgraceful. Just like it was disgraceful to have no one at Sharon’s funeral. This ending is just a slap in the face to the fans who’ve stuck with this franchise for 13 seasons. Pathetic.

TNT canceling this show has nothing to do with the quality or the ratings, it has to do with TNT wanting to get a bunch of shows that are trendy with critics and critics only like one type of show, the serialized, depressing show about characters who are nothing more than trash being rewarded for bad behavior. What TNT is too stupid to realize is that no one wants to see that, if people wanted to watch depressing shit like that they would watch the news, people want something a bit happier from their TV shows. I think the endless ads for TNT’s new shows being shoved down their throats are just turning viewers of MC off more. 

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I think one of the things that bothers me about this storyline is that MC has always been a fairly realistic show, as much as any tv show can be.  Normal, regular cops chasing normal regular criminals.  Stroh and partner have a totally different tone.  I know that it is possible to spy on people using electronics (I like to think Apple is live streaming my life to people who have trouble sleeping, kind of a natural tranquilizer).  But this is taking it to ridiculous levels; we're in NCIS/Criminal Minds/Mentalist territory.  And I like those shows.  I like Dr. Who, too, but I don't want the Tardis showing up in the squad room. The difference in tone and style between the scenes mourning Sharon and the other scenes is jarring.

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Ok I fully admit I only watched Part 1 so have scrolled by everyone’s posts with my eyes half-closed to avoid any spoilers.

My first day back at work yesterday after a lengthy vacation so was in no shape to watch these last night. Settled in tonight with good intentions for both. 

But then I had to rewatch the opening scene three times! Crying and feeling my heart break - for Emma, no less! And marveling at everyone’s acting. So I just could not get them both in tonight!

We’ve all said it, but it bears repeating: GW Bailey is a national treasure. The eulogy?!! My gosh. I know the writers gave him those words, but I do not think one other person in this cast could have delivered them with such gravitas. And his acting by the pool? Sublime. He tries to calm down Hobbs but knows he will be no use and asks Amy to take over. But then validates Andrea’s breakdown by telling her they are all feeling it. My favorite part was him knocking the table twice. That was such a smart choice by the actor and/or director. Frustration, resolve, deep-breath-bootstrapping. 

I can’t even talk about stupid stroh and the secret listening. Bah humbug. 

Side note: were we supposed to think that was Brenda and Fitz in the front row with the family? ALSO: buck up producers! You can’t have a funeral without those two people! It’s glaringly obvious! Shell out the cash! No Detective Theo either. OR Tom Beringer.

Lovely scene between Emily and Rusty. I can’t seem to warm up to Ricky tho. I don’t know if it’s because he still goes by ‘Ricky’ or his stupid goatee. He just seems like a punk.  YMMV

The one sour note for me was having Paige look back all puppy eyes at Wes during the service. Wtf was that. 

I also enjoyed Provenza making it crystal clear every chance he could get that Philip Stroh was going to die, come hell or high water!

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34 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

Side note: were we supposed to think that was Brenda and Fitz in the front row with the family? ALSO: buck up producers! You can’t have a funeral without those two people! It’s glaringly obvious! Shell out the cash! No Detective Theo either. OR Tom Beringer.

They probably could have gotten Jon Tenney back but, Kyra Sedgwick was probably shooting 10 Days in the Valley and simply wasn't available.

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Just now, Percysowner said:

They probably could have gotten Jon Tenney back but, Kyra Sedgwick was probably shooting 10 Days in the Valley and simply wasn't available.

Would 10 Days still have been filming in the fall? I was under the impression they were already done filming when ABC made the decision to pull the show off the air and air the remaining episodes later. Either way, I think they could, at least, have hired actors who resembled the missing people or maybe used the stand-ins and showed them from a distance/behind, so that the illusion that they attended would have been there.

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16 hours ago, mammaM said:

First and foremost, I love Provenza sooooo much! 

Second, like everyone else, I hate the Voldemort--oops, I meant Stroh storyline. I hated it since day one and the fact that Major Crimes is ending on this storyline pisses me off.

Last, I also agree about the commercials and promos for TNT's NEW BETTER SHOWS! (not). I read and liked The Alienist when it was first published and was actually looking forward to the show, but the promos every few minutes are having the opposite effect

I agree. I never found the Stroh storyline to be compelling and it really made me angry that we lost Captain Taylor around something to do with Stroh if I remember correctly, and I could be wrong.   Probably because Stroh was how Rusty was introduced to the show and how Brenda went out....I don't know his whole storyline has never been interesting.

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My take on  the motorcycle is that Stroh is trying to figure out the deadman's password.  Did he take a picture of the address?  Maybe he thinks he will tell her something and/or use a number related to her.  I don't think it is the undercover copy  Who knows? These last two episodes were so wacky and a let down it could end up that Wes is a Stroh accomplice that was sent to infiltrate the squad. I have no other reason why they added Wes or Paige and gave them airtime that could be devoted to characters we care about. 

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19 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Now I'm pissed I deleted the episodes so I can't re-watch that scene again.

It's on the TNT website.

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

but what about this other son. He barely looks younger than Stroh, so it seems unlikely that he could’ve been born after his mom changed her name, so what the hell is up with that and why hasn’t anyone on the squad commented on that. It seems like there is a lot of stupidity and dumb plot holes going around. 

He's her stepson.  She moved in with his father when he was 3 and helped raise him.  Since Stroh was in law school then, he must be about 20 years younger. Since Billy Burke ia 51, the stepson could be about 30.

18 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I got the impression during the killing scene that Stroh had been in the pool the whole time wearing his pool-liner colored wet-suit.

Me. too.

18 hours ago, slothgirl said:

The one thing that has me a smidge intrigued was that on the video of the Stroh wiz-kid visiting Stroh-mom, in the brief time before it got scrambled, it looked just like Rusty to me. And then someone (Tao?) commented, hey he looks familiar. I'm not saying it was Rusty.. that would be too dumb even for this pile of rot. So either there's going to be some reveal about the kid, or they're just hammering the parallels between Rusty and his adversaries WAY too hard.

Tao recognized him because he was the "neighbor kid" who showed them the gate.

12 hours ago, Poohbear617 said:

Plus I can't believe NOBODY saw 2 grown men walking around in wet suits and airtanks?

2 men?  Wasn't it just Stroh?

4 hours ago, catrice2 said:

My take on  the motorcycle is that Stroh is trying to figure out the deadman's password

Once Stroh accomplishes whatever his final goal is, he's not going to care if his plans are released, so he can kill his accomplice Dylan and not worry about the deadman's switch.  However, I think he will first punish the accomplice for instituting said switch and for being generally annoying by having him watch him kill Ella, as he knows that the camera is in her apartment.  First Stroh will make Dylan suffer by witnessing her murder (or worse) and then he'll kill him.  All Stroh has to do is make an appointment to see her (probably using Dylan's name as a reference) and she'll let him in.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse.
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On 12/26/2017 at 11:41 PM, slothgirl said:

GW Bailey knocked it out of the park at the beginning. That was just about the best performance I've seen on this show, eclipsing even his choking up in the last episodes when he took Sharon's hands to talk to her about her health. I've loved Mary McD since Sneakers and Passion Fish, but as great as she is, Bailey's performance of giving the eulogy was the all time Emmy winner for this series IMO. I really wish I'd stopped watching at his salute, and they could have just ended the series on that note for me because after that ....

I have to agree with everyone that the eulogy was truly outstanding. In fact the one saving grace throughout the two episodes was that this was G.W. Bailey's finest dramatic performance of both Major Crimes and The Closer. And possibly the best of the entire cast, which when you consider all the actors involved in both shows is an impressive accomplishment indeed. It's unfortunate that it will probably be ignored, because true justice would be him up on stage raising an Emmy or a Golden Globe while TNT's younger edgier series are all cancelled and the network execs are on the waiting to be fired and replaced by younger fresher faces...

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Interesting that there was a closed casket at the funeral. Still dangling the possibility that Sharon could appear again? 

I am very hopeful that the team is on to the hacking, and are monitoring Stroh and his little, annoying friend. But the showing of the security tape on the hacked screen makes it questionable. Perhaps as theorized above the tape shown actually was Rusty, and was a fake, made up to catch our little hacking friend.....?

The team planning a murder just goes against the grain of their entire existence and careers. I do hope it is all a set-up. I'd hate to see the show end with all of them arrested for murder and conspiracy.

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2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

and the network execs are on the waiting to be fired and replaced by younger fresher faces...

Wouldn't younger fresher faces want even younger fresher casts and shows?

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23 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I got the impression during the killing scene that Stroh had been in the pool the whole time wearing his pool-liner colored wet-suit.

So did I. But it sure was lucky for him that he guessed when she would come home, and that she would take a swim, and that nobody else would be in the yard when she plunged in.

It occurred to me that they could be aware of the hack and pulling a con on Stroh and henchboy. For a minute I even thought Stroh's mom might be an actress, though that seems unlikely. But the surveillance video may be a possible misdirect.

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9 minutes ago, david gideon said:

But it sure was lucky for him that he guessed when she would come home, and that she would take a swim, and that nobody else would be in the yard when she plunged in.

Lucky, yes, but Dylan (the "neighbor" hacker) has probably been lurking just over the fence, observing her routine (he could even have installed a camera in the back yard.)  Perhaps he knows that she always takes a swim at a certain time, and that the guards never look in the pool.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse.
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3 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

Wasn't anyone suspicious about a "teenager " who had a picture of a gate lock on his phone?????

Exactly.   And why wouldn't they check out the neighbors when she had been killed?  In fact, you would check out all the neighbors, especially since they know that Stroh likes to cultivate accompilces. This whole plot is just silly and not worthy of a series ending arc.  If you watch closely Buzz is using the video camera and it shows smart guy  pulling down his shirt.  They will go back and see that device as he pulls down his shirt.    I can't really say I was paying that much attention, but is there any way that the woman that they think is Stroh's mother is not her?  Could she be someone who lived with the mother and since she is ill just memorized the story?  Also, how is Stroh going to get money from this situation?  The British guy was so annoying I left the room or pushed mute way too often.   I just rewatched parts and saw the "bad guy" almost gleefully rubbing his hands about what is going to happen to the step brother, brother, whatever.  What is the plan for him?  I also just picked up on the fact that all these people were traveling to Europe for years.   Is it possible that the Stroh we know is not the real Stroh and these people were taking money to the real Stroh?  Or did Stroh do something and the mother was paying them off, but if that were the case, why would they need to go to Europe?   I can see the law professor knowing something about the deaths while at law school, but I lost track of who the other people were.  Were they people that he knew before his supposed first crime of killing the girl she went into detail about? 

 

I had to add that I have a problem with how the dementia was portrayed, along with so many other things in these episodes.  Did Andy retire? I can't remember and I did miss several episodes. 

So they find a way to bring NYPD Blue guy back, but not some other old favorites?  Again, just a reminder of all the screen time they wasted with the Rusty arc and his counseling sessions.for all the reasons that people list Major Crimes as better than the Closer, Rusty and the time he took out of Major Crimes will always be one of the reasons I cannot agree with that.  Once they started the Sharon and Rusty show, it became more of a time filler  (it not as if there are any other great shows, especially police procedurals) that was better than watching reality  television.  

Let me brace myself for Rusty saving the day! 

Edited by catrice2. Reason: Additions and corrections
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Is there a chance that Stroh "only" kidnapped and raped his first victim, and then Mommy The Fixer not only came up with the scheme to dispose of the body, but maybe Mommy Dearest actually killed her?
There was a line about Stroh's mom's dementia seeming convenient, and I hope that's true, because otherwise her total lucidity in the morning was insulting (IMO) to those who have, or care for those who have dementia and similar afflictions.  

 

I don't mind the super hacker kid. He has just one skill set and serves as a natural, convenient exposition fairy. Plus, the actor is holding his own. It's much better than magically giving Stroh those skills, and having a side kick is actually part of Stroh's MO.

12 minutes ago, david gideon said:

Stroh and henchboy.

Heh. A very Provenza-esque turn of phrase.

 

 

18 HOURS AGO, BASTET SAID:

Sharon dedicated all these years to leading Rusty to make good choices – not telling him which choice to make, unless push really came to shove, but guiding him towards realizing the right choice himself. It was beautiful and gratifying to watch. If this comes down to Rusty ignoring all protocol and common sense (not to mention his mother's final request to him) and…

I am still hopeful Rusty will hear her voice in his head at the right moment when confronting Stroh. We've been given some lines from Sharon's recording about not seeing Stroh as a "monster" or "alien" because that makes it harder to predict his moves (I think that was why?) and we've also been given a line from Rusty paraphrasing her warning. So I don't think that part will go wrong. I'm more concerned about Rusty taking Sharon's advice (before she died) to, I think, "give Gus a chance." Hopefully Duff didn't take literally some fans' wishes for Gusty to ride off into the sunset forever.

 

23 hours ago, Raja said:

Assuming uber hacker was detected that makes motorcycle helmet stalker Detective Nolan

So not?:

17 hours ago, Poohbear617 said:

I saw Stroh put on that motorcycle helmet with shield down

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What if Provenza tasked Detective Nolan to follow Neighbor Boy because he was suspicious of him from the get go? Nolan (on motorcycle) followed him to the prostitute's home.

I continue to hope that Tao and Buzz are onto the hacked cell phones but, if so, would the squad have really given out all of that information in the squad room knowing that it was bugged? Doubtful. 

There were a lot of things wrong with these episodes but I was riveted. 

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I would like Brenda Leigh to make an appearance since Stroh started with The Closer.  Perhaps Stroh could try to kill Brenda, and Rusty reverses the ending of The Closer by killing Stroh and saving Brenda's life.  Full circle.

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16 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

I would like Brenda Leigh to make an appearance since Stroh started with The Closer.  Perhaps Stroh could try to kill Brenda, and Rusty reverses the ending of The Closer by killing Stroh and saving Brenda's life.  Full circle.

I never liked the premise that Robbery Homicide Division were Keystone Kopps so always pushed against the ideal of Chief Johnson but when you get down to it Stroh was her arch nemesis. not a witnesses 

Edited by Raja.
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Stroh should have ended with the Closer, along with Rusty.  Having Brenda Leigh involved was the only way to end Stroh.   If they couldn't do that, then they should have ended the series another way.   To me, the intensity was there with her and Stroh.  It is believable that he would want to come back and "beat" her.  I just don't see a compelling reason for him to want to kill Rusty or to "go up against" the squad.  Before Rusty was the witness that could ID him....he has done so much more since then that Rusty is not even a factor for him anymore.  Brenda thwarted him more than Rusty did. 

I would hope that was Nolan following him, but if so, why not keep following him until he met with Stroh instead of just riding off before him?  They know that Stroh is a killer, if they think the neighbor boy can lead them to him it would seem that they would stay on him or try to get into the house to prevent any more murders. 

Stroh uttered a line something like, "I need this to be over," or " I need this to hurry up."  I feel the same way. 

I can't stand to see Sanchez so tame.....and the Andy I knew and loved was lost when they started the whole romance.  

At this point my fear is that they will have a spin off series with Rusty and Gus! 

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20 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

 

Stroh uttered a line something like, "I need this to be over," or " I need this to hurry up."  I feel the same way. 

 

Don't tell me Stroh is dying also

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I am wondering if Stroh is dying and is looking to "suicide by cop" It would be a real irony if he's punished more by NOT being killed than by having any one of the squad take him out.

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Here's how much this show is stuck in my head:  I just stopped off at the local Smart & Final, where there's a clerk who looks a lot like J.K. Simmons (Chief Pope).  I was in his lane, and when I looked up and saw it was him, my first thought was, "Oh, it's the J.K. Simmons guy," and my second, immediately after that, was, "They should have hired this guy to sit in the pew at Sharon's funeral."

Edited by Bastet.
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Stroh has developed super villain powers now, or it least he’s got a super villain accomplice. Haven’t been this irritated by a long time villain since Nicole Wallace from Law and Order : Criminal Intent and Stroh is worse. He should’vean essen been disposed of years ago. 

I have been incredibly disappointed with how little of Sanchez, Tao and Sykes we’ve gotten this year.

They killed off Mrs Sanchez just to give an excuse for why Julio wasn’t around for 2 episodes, and we haven’t gotten to see how Julio is dealing with the loss of his mother at all, and now losing Sharon, and we didn’t get to see how he dealt with that either. Julio has had a fairly tragic life and definitely a difficult few months, plus he’s having to adjust to taking care of a kid as well, we should get more about how he is holding up. I wish they would give him a scene where he talks to Provenza or Tao about how he is doing, he’s confided in Provenza a lot before and Tao is his closest friend on the squad so give him a scene with one of them to just give us more on how he is dealing with all the turmoil in his life.

Tao has been underused the whole series, been around from day 1 but has barely gotten any focus, he’s a core member of the show but gets very little of the spotlight, we haven’t heard about his wife or children in ages and this year it’s been noticeable how he’s been shifted to the background. 

As for Sykes, she’s window dressing now. Where’s Cooper, I’ve always liked him and hope to see him again before the show ends, Sykes hasn’t even talked about him in a long time, but then again Sykes has barely been on screen this year. 

Provenza is about the only thing that is good about the show right now, like others said, he was awesome in the last episodes. The others have been underused, and I have no idea why they added the awful Paige to the show, Nolan has gotten on my nerves as of late and the Rusty/Gus stuff I don’t care about, but I have a feeling when Duff talked about a satisfying ending he meant an ending of Rusty and Gus living happily ever after and everyone else getting no focus. 

Such a disappointing ending overall to the show. 

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On 12/26/2017 at 11:53 PM, pennben said:

 

Another slap, that I have to think is intentional in some way, is the name of Stroh's stepfather, Jim Bechtel. 

I'm not sure if folks are familiar with it, but there is something called the "Bechdel Test" for works of fiction (movies. tv shows in particular) to see how women are used in the work.  In general, I'm going to quote from Wikipedia here (I know, I know, but I just wanted the quick dirty explanation for now), the test "asks whether a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added."  It's essentially used to see if women are just props in a show.

It feels like the show is almost taunting by using a homophone for Bechdel on this first episode out after getting rid of the expendable woman (who happened to be the lead) and bringing back another woman, solely to be killed on screen, and to essentially turn over the show about two strong women (Brenda/Sharon) to the all-powerful male villain who will likely be killed/caught by the expendable woman's son, Rusty.  I think even Bechdel, of test fame, would say "you flunk, even though you pass the superficial test.....I never contemplated something as outrageous as this!"

 

I noticed same. And I don’t think they passed, even superficially!! They didn’t even have enough women to have a conversation! And if Amy and Paige did, maybe, it was certainly about Stroh so it doesn’t pass the smell test. 

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On 12/27/2017 at 7:55 AM, CaptainCranky said:

I DVR this show and so after reading the comments I'm not going to waste two hours of my life watching the final four shows.

Between this and The Closer these were a rarity in my life, good decent TV to watch and I'll miss it.

My only regret over the life of Major Crimes was the inordinate amount of time they took from the main characters and great story lines was the Rusty part of the show.

Thanks to everyone for the years of dissecting this show here on TV Forums.

I hope we can meet again of some other good TV show.

Oooooh at least watch the first 10 mins to see Provenza’s eulogy. He put on a master class in acting. 

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I kept thinking that the accomplice guy was going to look over at his other monitor and see Stroh killing his girlfriend.

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2 hours ago, ShellSeeker said:

I kept thinking that the accomplice guy was going to look over at his other monitor and see Stroh killing his girlfriend.

Stay tuned.

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What's bumming me out about the main thrust of this storyline is that both The Closer and Major Crimes focused on the fact that motives for murder tend to be mundane--anger, jealousy, lust, money.  When they've done these types of serial killer storylines, they've worked because they tend to let the chemistry between the characters drive the episode, not the plot.  I'm thinking especially of the guy who Stroh used to send threatening letters to Rusty, but even the Burning Man story had its moments.

This stuff about a super-hacker is just too OTT.

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12 hours ago, Raja said:

Don't tell me Stroh is dying also

Dylan set it up so they would think Stroh was ill;  something about medical records in Czechoslovakia? Probably a misdirect.

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14 hours ago, LisaM said:

What if Provenza tasked Detective Nolan to follow Neighbor Boy because he was suspicious of him from the get go? Nolan (on motorcycle) followed him to the prostitute's home.

I continue to hope that Tao and Buzz are onto the hacked cell phones but, if so, would the squad have really given out all of that information in the squad room knowing that it was bugged? Doubtful. 

There were a lot of things wrong with these episodes but I was riveted. 

This is coming off like a twist filled novel. But look how the British acted when they broke the Germans codes in WWII. They had to give some information away and not act on their intelligence so that the Germans would not figure out they had been hacked and change their codes. So far this season has been more about  super twist then laying out a case that a super lawyer can't say the glove don't fit

Edited by Raja.
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I appreciated Provenza’s eulogy. The rest of the 1st episode and the 2nd I watched but didn't really enjoy. I mostly watched to see how everything was going to progress after Sharon's death. 

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On 12/27/2017 at 0:59 AM, PinkRibbons said:

I'll be a lone voice and say that I enjoyed the hell out of Stroh's Little Hacking Fucker. *shrug* Kid was entertaining.

I enjoyed the enthusiasm of the character even if:

1) It's so far beyond realistic that he's doing what he's doing that I cannot suspend that much disbelief

2) There's no way in Hell he'd go into old lady's home without a disguise.  That part was just stupid writing.  He's surprised there are cameras in there?  Given that her caretaker is this uber camera spy guy, and the whole premise behind this whole storyline is hacking into cameras, that makes zero sense.  Come on.

Other things that bothered me:

1) Rusty's "sister" can't bear to lose him?  Please

2) Gus finally recognizes Stroh! recalling how dumb it was that he hadn't already seen his picture on TV or at Major Crimes or with Rusty.  Even security dude knew Stroh was a serial killer when they mentioned his name.

3) New Captain is continually being written as a money-obsessed moron.  He was a cool character when they brought him in, but his constant pushback against Provenza just makes him seem incompetent.  Someone hacks into the security cam footage to delete all evidence of a serial killer that an eye witness tells you was there, and this isn't cause for the department to act?  You've gotta be kidding me.

I like seeing my favorite characters, and I hope Flynn and Provenza get their moments saving the day, but the writing on this show has gone to shit.  I've enjoyed this show for many years, so I won't let this horrible limp to the finish line tarnish my opinion of it as a whole, but at this point, it can't end soon enough.  Hopefully the final showdown is worth it.

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