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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

The CW is spotlighting two of its new shows at PaleyFest in September (All American is a Greg Berlanti show)..

PaleyFest Fall TV Previews Sets Initial Lineup: Tim Allen, Sarah Silverman, Aaron Paul & More
by Erik Pedersen  July 24, 2018
https://deadline.com/2018/07/paleyfest-fall-tv-previews-tim-allen-sarah-silverman-aaron-paul-nathan-fillion-hulu-netflix-abc-cbs-1202432095/

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We are mere months away from Fall which can only mean one thing: it’s PaleyFest time! The Paley Center for Media unveiled the lineup for its 12th annual PaleyFest Fall TV Previews. The festival takes place Sept. 6-16 at the Paley Center’s Beverly Hills location.

The ten-day fest celebrates shows returning to the forthcoming Fall 2018 television season as well as giving audiences the first look at some of the most anticipated new shows. The fest will include premiere screenings and cast & creator discussions from ABC, CBS, The CW, Epix, Fox, History, Hulu, Lifetime, NBC, Netflix, and Telemundo.
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The CW Presents All American and Charmed: Saturday, September 8, 2018
6 pm Preview Reception
6:30 pm Preview Screenings & Conversation

Featured talent from All American includes:
Daniel Ezra, “Spencer James”
Samantha Logan, “Olivia Barker”
Bre-Z, “Coop”
Greta Onieogou, “Layla Keating”
Monet Mazur, “Laura Fine-Baker”
Michael Evans Behling, “Jordan Baker”
Cody Christian, “Asher”
Karimah Westbrook, “Grace James”
April Blair, Executive Producer
Sarah Schechter, Executive Producer
Spencer Paysinger, Consulting Producer
Robbie Rogers, Producer

Featured talent from Charmed includes:
Melonie Diaz, “Melanie Vera”
Sarah Jeffery, “Maggie Vera”
Madeleine Mantock, “Macy Vaughn”
Jessica O’Toole, Executive Producer
Amy Rardin, Executive Producer
Jennie Snyder Urman, Executive Producer

Edited by tv echo.
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3 hours ago, way2interested said:

The only reason though I can't fully be sympathetic to LoT as the red-headed step child of the Arrowverse is because it used so much time, effort, and money from Arrow and Flash specifically, so LoT giving some time back to Flash and Arrow doesn't seem that outrageous to me, even though I can sympathize with fans who want to see more of the characters they love over characters from another show. 

I don't resent Sara's time on Arrow.  Or Capt Cold and Heatwave on the Flash.  I don't even mind Ray on Arrow.  They were all a part of the natural storylines to begin with.  (I was annoyed by how much time was taken up with Laurel doing stupid things to bring Sara back though and not enough from Sara's POV.) But I hated how they introduced Kendra over on the Flash, she was reduced to love interest from the start.  And I HATED how they used the crossover to bring in Hawkman and Vandal Savage.  Most dull team up because of it.   

So yeah, for that alone, as much as I love LoT, I'll accept them stepping back an letting Oliver shine.

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Bex Taylor-Klaus Wants to Be the Lesbian Batwoman We Need Right Now 
Jack DeVries  July 28, 2018
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/bex-taylor-klaus-kate-kane-batwoman

 

I don't see them picking her since she's probably their idea of the perfect body type but I'd watch if she was cast.  I wish they were more interested in interesting actors than generically pretty.  

2 hours ago, JJ928 said:

Writers definitely don’t wanna mend fandoms lol. You’re 100% right the infighting helps with social media buzz. I mean, if the shows cared even a tiny bit they would have done something about the abuse the actors get, but that works for them too. As long as people are engaged and talking (no matter what or why) CW is happy. I will never understand why olicity and WA fans fight so much (they did before the wedding too), because both fandom imo are very similar. I guess that could be why, still doesn’t make sense to me.

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I tend to think it all stems from early fears that Iris would be replaced by Caitlin.  Some saw Felicity as the poster girl for that happening and got salty over her crossovers and heart to hearts with Barry (and she kissed him!) so that created some division that grew when the Olicity fandom, who doesn't take much shade before they push back, pushed back and then WA pushed back and it became a competition. 

Didn't help when The Flash writers scripted insults into their show about Arrow characters so that probably only fueled viewers making more negative comparisons which in turn fired up Arrow viewers to refute such claims and instead tear The Flash characters down. 

And then for me, I got riled up when on The Flash, they had Barry and Iris just announce they are the Gold Standard in relationships.  (You can't hand out awards to yourself and expect people to just agree).  

So yeah, here we are. 

Edited by BkWurm1.
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13 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't resent Sara's time on Arrow.  Or Capt Cold and Heatwave on the Flash.  I don't even mind Ray on Arrow.  They were all a part of the natural storylines to begin with.  (I was annoyed by how much time was taken up with Laurel doing stupid things to bring Sara back though and not enough from Sara's POV.) But I hated how they introduced Kendra over on the Flash, she was reduced to love interest from the start.  And I HATED how they used the crossover to bring in Hawkman and Vandal Savage.  Most dull team up because of it.   

So yeah, for that alone, as much as I love LoT, I'll accept them stepping back an letting Oliver shine.

I didn't resent Sara, Snart, Mick, or Stein (mostly because they were natural storylines with no intentions of being part of a spinoff), but I do also resent Kendra, that crossover, and the time from both shows to explain away why characters were coming into the picture just to leave. For Ray, even though I didn't actually hate him because it was really obvious that he was supposed to be the obligatory temp love interest, I do resent him being on Arrow not because of his story role but because of the ultimate reason for Ray's existence in the first place--a new spinoff. I think trying to prep a new moneymaker significantly affected parts in s3 tied to his character (can't make him fail too hard or be too wrong since he has to be a lead, but who cares about how Oliver looks in comparison! Got to ration some of the budget for his great suit and the bigger name actor for his character! Wait, people aren't responding? Gotta make sure he gets big hero moments and we'll just tie other characters to his show using our already established shows to save on the investment!), which can't make me ever look too fondly at Ray from s3. His character got a lot better on LoT, so I'm further from disliking him than I used to be (and even think he's very much underused), but I can't fully ignore my bitterness of the origins of his character.

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56 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I tend to think it all stems from early fears that Iris would be replaced by Caitlin.  Some saw Felicity as the poster girl for that happening and got salty over her crossovers and heart to hearts with Barry (and she kissed him!) so that created some division that grew when the Olicity fandom, who doesn't take much shade before they push back, pushed back and then WA pushed back and it became a competition. 

I agree with this. I think pretty early on WA fans saw Felicity as a threat of sorts. like if Arrow could blow up comic canon with Felicity, they might do the same with The Flash. And it didn't help that also pretty early on, critics like Alan Sepinwall were talking about how The Flash needed a character like Felicity because Barry wasn't clicking/didn't have chemistry with the two females already on the show. So from the very beginning there was this competition with the characters that only seemed to exist in the WA fans' heads (Arrow would never have let go of Felicity). Add the whole Arrowverse connection and fans' natural tendency to assert their ships and, well, here we are. 

That "gold standard" is funny as hell, though. I can't even get riled up. 

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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

And then for me, I got riled up when on The Flash, they had Barry and Iris just announce they are the Gold Standard in relationships.  (You can't hand out awards to yourself and expect people to just agree).  

They called themselves that? LOL

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Does anyone have a clip of that "gold standard" declaration? I wanna see what prompted it, what the context is.

Edited by SmallScreenDiva.
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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Didn't help when The Flash writers scripted insults into their show about Arrow characters so that probably only fueled viewers making more negative comparisons which in turn fired up Arrow viewers to refute such claims and instead tear The Flash characters down. 

Which show was it that said something about Felicity ruining Palmer Tech?  I could ask why another show decided to insult Felicity, but I also have to wonder why Arrow writers left that wide open door for someone else to go through.  This isn't about letting Felicity be perfect, but come on.  They didn't do themselves any favors there.

Maybe Arrow writers just don't want the billionaire part of the Green Arrow.  They got rid of the Queen billions very quickly too.  If they are rich, does that mess up the whole "gritty" part of the show?

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13 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Does anyone have a clip of that "gold standard" declaration? I wanna see what prompted it, what the context is.

 

402, around the 1:30 mark. I feel like there might have been another time, but this is the first one I remembered

Edited by way2interested.
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LOL, I never realized he said that.  He surely thinks highly of himself(them)...as if I needed more reason to not like him. LOL

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8 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

Which show was it that said something about Felicity ruining Palmer Tech?  I could ask why another show decided to insult Felicity, but I also have to wonder why Arrow writers left that wide open door for someone else to go through.  This isn't about letting Felicity be perfect, but come on.  They didn't do themselves any favors there.

You should ask why another show decided to insult Felicity, because if you're asking writers to shut all doors that leave their characters open to criticism, then everyone on all of them would be perfect. The simple thing to do would for them to not shit talk the others unless its relevant to an actual storyline that involves the person they're shit talking. I mean, it's possible, because I don't recall anyone on Arrow taking cheap swipes at any other show's characters' expense - and Diggle out of all of them has a valid reason to take cheap shots considering Barry erased his kid from existence. 

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I don't think any show insulted Felicity. Certainly not Flash, they still use her as someone who is both capable to help them and also willing to do so. I don't think Legends did and I don't watch Supergirl anymore so I can't speak for them, but it would be random to just mention her. 

Oliver? Sure, Joe did a few times, last one being three years ago but that's just one character.

Gold standard..yea it's a bit...pompous, but it's only been said between them. 

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think pretty early on WA fans saw Felicity as a threat of sorts.

I certainly can't speak for all WA fans but the several that I know never viewed her as a threat. 

Nor do we hold any real bitterness about the double wedding (which wasn't even the only reason of why we were upset...just the most symbolic one).

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8 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

I don't think any show insulted Felicity. Certainly not Flash, they still use her as someone who is both capable to help them and also willing to do so. I don't think Legends did and I don't watch Supergirl anymore so I can't speak for them, but it would be random to just mention her. 

It was random, and it was Legends, and they did insult her. 

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2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It was random, and it was Legends, and they did insult her. 

Legends? What did they say?

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When did Legends insult Felicity? They were the ones that first showed Smoak Tech. 

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Just now, wingster55 said:

Legends? What did they say?

They mentioned that Felicity "ran Palmer Tech into the ground" which...isn't what happened, but it is what they said. 

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301 in a scene that made no sense right off the bat. Ray's new boss (because who cares that he and Sara are both supposed to be dead?) telling Ray that he can't really have good judgment since he left Palmer Tech to a woman who ran it into the ground.

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Ohhh yeah. Right, I remember. That was a bit harsh...she wasn't that bad (they did fire her for a reason though). 

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5 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

(they did fire her for a reason though). 

Yes, because she was trying to make the implant that saved her ability to walk affordable for people. Which, yeah, isn't necessarily the best move as far as profit margins are concerned, but is hardly as awful as "running the business into the ground" makes it seem.

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There's just something quite ugly in LOT and Flash characters throwing a lot of shade at Arrow characters. Aside from the stuff mentioned above, there's also Joe propping up Barry as a hero by dissing Oliver in the early seasons. Like, can't you stand on your own two feet, people? Bunch of ingrates. 

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LoT accusing Felicity of running Palmer Tech to the ground also ignores that fact that she was the one holding Palmer Tech together while Ray obsessed with building his super suit in season 3, and that she was the one that stood up to the board of directors in season 4, preventing them from laying off people, including Curtis who came up with the battery that eventually made PT a lot of money.

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7 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

There's just something quite ugly in LOT and Flash characters throwing a lot of shade at Arrow characters. Aside from the stuff mentioned above, there's also Joe propping up Barry as a hero by dissing Oliver in the early seasons. Like, can't you stand on your own two feet, people? Bunch of ingrates. 

Didn't Joe just say that Barry didn't need to be like Oliver? Hardly damning words, but then again I mentioned Joe not being Oliver's biggest fan. Still just one character (and his stance isn't shared by anyone else on the team)

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That’s the only time I remember Legends doing it though, and it wasn’t by a main character.  It was by a character we were already supposed to believe was a jerk (and who got killed off by DD later in the season).  I didn’t care for it, and I really wished they hadn’t gone there, but they don’t make a habit of having the main characters shade Arrow characters like it seems Flash does, unless I’m really forgetting something (which is always possible *facepalm*).

Edited by Starfish35.
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27 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

One time is considering a lot?

LOT did it once, Flash has done it multiple times which considering Arrow hasn't to my recollection taken a shady swipe at any characters on other shows, it is a lot. 

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Re the "mending fandoms" question:  I don't think the questioner wanted the fandoms mended, I think he just wanted to say his piece on how much he hates O/F stealing WA/s wedding limelight.  I guess the first episode of the cross over wasn't enough WA for him.

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Didn't help when The Flash writers scripted insults into their show about Arrow characters so that probably only fueled viewers making more negative comparisons which in turn fired up Arrow viewers to refute such claims and instead tear The Flash characters down. 

And then for me, I got riled up when on The Flash, they had Barry and Iris just announce they are the Gold Standard in relationships.  (You can't hand out awards to yourself and expect people to just agree). 

I don't know if The Flash writers have massive narcissism or just a massive inferiority complex but the constant putting down of Oliver, who only really killed in s1 while putting Barry, who has killed lots of people, on a pedestal is not intelligent.  Find your likes another way.

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

They called themselves that? LOL

They had to, no one watching the show would have realized it otherwise.  In terms of a good relationship, Olicity >>>>>>> better than West Allen. 

57 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

Ohhh yeah. Right, I remember. That was a bit harsh...she wasn't that bad (they did fire her for a reason though). 

They fired her because she wanted to do a  (insert philanthropist of your choice) move, let people who need the chip have it because it would be affordable to them.  Felicity had already saved PT at least twice, once when Ray was too busy with his suit to pay attention to his company and again when it was tanking thanks to the board and she got Curtis to make the battery.  There was no sense that PT was in trouble when they fired her; she just wasn't gouging people like Martin Shkreli  who bought a company with a drug patent and raised the price of a pill 56 times, going from $13.5 to $750 a day so he could make a bigger profit. (He was later convicted of securities fraud and sentenced to seven years in federal prison and up to $7.4 million in fines.)  The PT board would have loved Shkreli until they caught him.

Why can't we take a joke?  The problem for me is Felicity is a minority as a character. If it were a straight white man, it still wouldn't be funny but it wouldn't be so bad as it is.  People who are minorities, whether it's race, sex, religion or sexual orientation. have a harder time  getting ahead in the world and they get put down all the time for no reason other than what they are.

It was a cheap shot not just at Felicity but at all women in STEM and business, and not funny.

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It especially bothered me because I didn’t like that guy at Palmer Tech (Dennis maybe?). I blame him for everything wrong with the company and that storyline. 

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10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It especially bothered me because I didn’t like that guy at Palmer Tech (Dennis maybe?). I blame him for everything wrong with the company and that storyline. 

My god, that guy was such a dick! Every time I watch S4 episodes, I want to punch him in the face.

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Also the reaction of Iris and WA regarding Felicity was disgusting. Basically encouraging and liking tweets where a Jewish character should have been killed by a Nazi during the crossover, just because they were pissed with the wedding. I dont think the fandom will forget especially after the shows ... be it LOT or Flash use their shows to bash on Arrow characters. I also think the WA and Olicity fandom wont even see eye to eye ... after the crossover. 

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4 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

You should ask why another show decided to insult Felicity, because if you're asking writers to shut all doors that leave their characters open to criticism, then everyone on all of them would be perfect. The simple thing to do would for them to not shit talk the others unless its relevant to an actual storyline that involves the person they're shit talking. I mean, it's possible, because I don't recall anyone on Arrow taking cheap swipes at any other show's characters' expense - and Diggle out of all of them has a valid reason to take cheap shots considering Barry erased his kid from existence. 

I wrote a response and was almost done when the computer ate it.  I didn't feel like rewriting it.

Basically, yes, you're right, they shouldn't make crappy comments about other people on other shows.  But apparently Flash and LOT didn't get that memo.

Arrow writers could, if they wanted to, think a little bit about how the actions of their characters look to the outside.  It is their show and characters. You'd think they'd be a bit more protective.  I really do think they just don't want anyone to have money.  I mean, not one, but TWO characters have lost billion dollar companies.  Or rather company.  But still.  I mean, come on!  What's up with that???  Interesting parallel, if you squint enough, both characters lost the company because they didn't pay enough attention to it.  Oliver didn't pay attention to what he was signing and what it could mean.  Felicity thought she could disappear for six months and the company would be just the same when she got back.

Something that could easily be done... GB could send a proclamation from on high that the other good guys aren't to be used for target practice on their shows.  Since it's only Oliver and Felicity that get mentioned poorly in other shows (unless I'm missing something, and I totally could), it shouldn't be too hard.

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2 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

Basically, yes, you're right, they shouldn't make crappy comments about other people on other shows.  But apparently Flash and LOT didn't get that memo.

Arrow writers could, if they wanted to, think a little bit about how the actions of their characters look to the outside. 

It’s not Arrow’s fault if the other writers rooms want to be dicks. Arrow has enough problems with storytelling to worry about what details their spinoff shows choose to use as targets for cheap shots.

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2 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

What's up with that???  Interesting parallel, if you squint enough, both characters lost the company because they didn't pay enough attention to it.  Oliver didn't pay attention to what he was signing and what it could mean.  Felicity thought she could disappear for six months and the company would be just the same when she got back.

she didnt just disappear though ... Felicity was denied the opportunity to expand her idea to try to help people with inventions like the one that benefited her. She also had to fight to keep the people in her company and not to fire them like the company had wanted.

On the other hand we had Barry just using the funds of a psychopath Eobard Thawne, his actions get swept under the rug, s1 and s2 finale (also the resulting deaths). And last but not least Barry let the Nazi Eobard Thawne go ... but the Flash rather focused on bashing of Oliver and Felicity.

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Clearly, there wasn't enough news at SDCC.

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28 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

I wrote a response and was almost done when the computer ate it.  I didn't feel like rewriting it.

Basically, yes, you're right, they shouldn't make crappy comments about other people on other shows.  But apparently Flash and LOT didn't get that memo.

Arrow writers could, if they wanted to, think a little bit about how the actions of their characters look to the outside.  It is their show and characters. You'd think they'd be a bit more protective.  I really do think they just don't want anyone to have money.  I mean, not one, but TWO characters have lost billion dollar companies.  Or rather company.  But still.  I mean, come on!  What's up with that???  Interesting parallel, if you squint enough, both characters lost the company because they didn't pay enough attention to it.  Oliver didn't pay attention to what he was signing and what it could mean.  Felicity thought she could disappear for six months and the company would be just the same when she got back.

Something that could easily be done... GB could send a proclamation from on high that the other good guys aren't to be used for target practice on their shows.  Since it's only Oliver and Felicity that get mentioned poorly in other shows (unless I'm missing something, and I totally could), it shouldn't be too hard.

As people are trying to explain Felicity didnt ruin or abandon Palmer Tech in the actual storyline which I'm assuming the LOT writers didn't watch  so there is no earnest on Arrow to "think a little bit about how their characters look" to others shows writers or fans who either aren't watching the storyline or aren't paying enough attention to the storyline to have an informed an accurate opinion. 

During the 6 months Felicity "abandoned" PT she was actually struggling with the board who who weren't in agreement or pleased with her being given the company. Infact one of the first scenes Felicity has in season 4 is her discussing with Oliver her struggles with the board combined with the fact that the company was losing money. When she took charge of the company she both prevented large lay offs of employees, which the board wanted as a quick fix to offset their depleting returns, she along with Curtis instead developed a battery which actually saved the company from having to layoff their staff by giving them something patented they could market. Curtis and Felicity then wanted to use the chip that helped Felicity walk to market to disabled people at an affordable price to help the most amount of people, which went directly against what the board wanted which was to market it for profit. So because Felicity was at odds with the board they pushed her out as CEO and gave her a large severance package ( The show has been less clear on if Felicity still owns the shares in PT)

 

If the company does indeed get run into the ground in the future it seems like it is on the boards decision making or whoever they put in charge after Felicity was pushed out. 

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2 hours ago, treasaigh said:

IArrow writers could, if they wanted to, think a little bit about how the actions of their characters look to the outside.  It is their show and characters. You'd think they'd be a bit more protective. 

I'm not sure most writers rooms write with the expectation that they need to make their characters criticism-proof so that their sister shows won't keep taking potshots at their characters. And I doubt the Arrow writers care since they've never responded in kind. I'm grateful for that, because (a) it's tacky, and (b) they need to focus all their efforts on making this show make sense.

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I'm not saying they have to criticism proof their characters, but giving a character a billion dollar company, have them not be involved/around for six months, show the board being unhappy with her, and then lose the company, and not expect it to look bad for the character wasn't thinking things through.

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22 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

I'm not saying they have to criticism proof their characters, but giving a character a billion dollar company, have them not be involved/around for six months, show the board being unhappy with her, and then lose the company, and not expect it to look bad for the character wasn't thinking things through.

It doesn't look bad for the character if you've actually watched the show, because all of these things were explained in the show (and above, multiple times). Saying she ran the company into the ground is a misrepresentation of what happened. She was brought into a hostile board, figured out a way for them to avoid layoffs, selected a viable, money-making project to bring them back from the brink, and then when they developed a life-saving implant that helped her walk again, she was fired for the crime of wanting to make it affordable (and for missing a board meeting or two because she was trying to stop nuclear annihilation). 

Edited by apinknightmare.
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4 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Also the reaction of Iris and WA regarding Felicity was disgusting.

I assume you mean fans. Except generalizing an entire fanbase based on a couple of jackasses is unfair. 

Plus...this notion/insistence that Flash takes cheap shots at Oliver all the time....where? When? 

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Barry and Iris in-show were rude about Oliver and Felicity's wedding present and Felicity asking Oliver to marry her when it was Oliver who suggested Diggle officiate and Barry just kidnapped him without asking his permission. Not the fans but the characters on the show were disgusting. 

When you get a present, especially when they had to travel to a different city to be in your wedding party, you say thank you. You don't criticize them for not buying something off your entitled wedding present list.  (Very few people bought me things from my wedding registry but I was grateful for everything that was given to me.)

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17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Barry and Iris in-show were rude about Oliver and Felicity's wedding present and Felicity asking Oliver to marry her when it was Oliver who suggested Diggle officiate and Barry just kidnapped him without asking his permission. Not the fans but the characters on the show were disgusting. 

When you get a present, especially when they had to travel to a different city to be in your wedding party, you say thank you. You don't criticize them for not buying something off your entitled wedding present list.  (Very few people bought me things from my wedding registry but I was grateful for everything that was given to me.)

It was literally one line. A bit snarky, but disgusting? Funny that, that one line and brief moment of bitterness that lasted all of 30 seconds, from a black woman, is seen as such. Because she expressed a human emotion and flaw. Cool. 

For me, not buying a gift on someone's registry is rude. 

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16 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

Funny that, that one line and brief moment of bitterness that lasted all of 30 seconds, from a black woman, is seen as such. Because she expressed a human emotion and flaw. Cool. 

You should’ve been around for the lengthy commentary around Laurel turning off the TV her coworkers were watching in the pilot, and Felicity turning off the bunker lights on Diggle and Roy after she found out Oliver was ~dead in 3x10. Lots of opinions about varying levels of rudeness, both about white women expressing human emotions. 

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For me, it was nothing to do with Iris being black, and everything to do with WA "we're the gold standard" entitlement.

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23 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

You should’ve been around for the lengthy commentary around Laurel turning off the TV her coworkers were watching in the pilot, and Felicity turning off the bunker lights on Diggle and Roy after she found out Oliver was ~dead in 3x10. Lots of opinions about varying levels of rudeness, both about white women expressing human emotions. 

I was there for the latter part. Yes white women get criticized too for stupid shirt.  I don't think it's a stretch or that I'm out of line that woc, particularly black women get that much worse. 

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

For me, it was nothing to do with Iris being black, and everything to do with WA "we're the gold standard" entitlement.

Uh huh. 

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8 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

I don't think it's a stretch or that I'm out of line that woc, particularly black women get that much worse. 

Never wrote anything implying otherwise, just pointed out that women’s actions wrt etiquette and rudeness get discussed to death here. 

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Official Post

This topic is being locked while the moderation team discusses whether or not it is necessary as all the shows have their own forums. Thanks.

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