Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

The problem with WB and DC is they keep reacting instead of taking the time to think things through. They don't need to be like Marvel, they need to write better stories. They also are never going to make the money Marvel does if they keep only catering to comic book fans. Their Easter Eggs mean nothing to non comic book fans. They have to establish their universe then put in Easter eggs that fit what they set up.  I went with a friend who doesn't read comics and she was asking who the woman was in Atlantis, who the guy in the end credits was, the Darksied mention meant nothing to her and she kept asking me what Aquaman's powers were. She knows Superman and Batman from all their movies, she got to know Wonder Woman in her recent movie and she knows the Flash from the CW series (of which she said she likes that Flash better). The DC movies don't appeal to the mainstream audience the 96 million opening weekend just proved that. While Marvel can go from the bottom of their pile to choose a hero to make a movie about and everyone will go see it knowing they don't have to know anything about that character to enjoy it. 

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That's a good point. My brothers are comics nerds, and I've never had to ask them questions about either Wonder Woman or the Marvel movies. They'll often ask me, "Did you catch this-or-that?", and I'll reply that I saw it but I didn't realize it meant anything, and then they'll explain it to me.

This tells me that they are very, very good at putting in Easter Eggs that will mean something to comics fans but don't interrupt the flow of the plot, characterization or themes for the casual fans like myself. Take the purple-face guy at the end of Avengers - didn't have a sweet clue who he was, but context dictated he was being built up as the Big Bad. That's all I needed to know to understand and appreciate the movie. My brothers asked me later if I got the significance of it and explained it to me, but that was just icing on the cake - the cake tasted just fine on its own.

In contrast, I watched BvsS with them and constantly had to interrupt the movie to ask questions. "Wait a sec, how did we end up here? What's going on? Who's that guy? Why did we switch to that all of a sudden?" They were very patient with me, 'cause they're great guys, but the point is I needed an information-source with me in order to understand anything. Who wants to watch a movie where you feel like you have to bone up on your studies first?

But it doesn't have to be like that. Wonder Woman was completely accessible. Legends drops Easter Eggs all the time, but it never interferes with my understanding of what's going on; I find out about them later on the forums and go, "Huh,  that's cool." 

Edited by Miss Dee. Reason: Spelling

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My friend keeps wanting to see the movies because she liked the previous Superman and Batman movies and thinks they are go to be like those. After Justice League she said she's no longer interested in seeing Aquaman. It's not that Aquaman was a bad character in the movie, she doens't want to have do research on him to get the movie.  Plus if the humor was added afterwards, is Aquaman going to go back to being underwater Batman in his movie? The 96 Million is earned IMO.  DC did this to themselves. 

Edited by Sakura12.

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Snyder was definitely more "this is for comic fans" then anything else which helped his movies underperform. But WB seems lazy when it comes to DC. MoS underperformed so we'll give Snyder the key to our entire franchise! Green Lantern underperformed so we'll give Berlanti his own network. 

Aquaman should've had his own solo movie before JL. Flash didn'tneed one since the tv show tells you enough about him,  Cyborg was fine being introduced in JL even though they cut a lot of his origins that they filmed. 

But DC didn't want another BvS so they Frankenstein the movie instead of just bringing in a brand new team all together and pushing the film back a couple of months. 

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33 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Snyder was definitely more "this is for comic fans" then anything else which helped his movies underperform.

I may not be a die-hard comic fan, but in no comic or graphic novel that I've read, was Superman a dark, angsty character, or Batman, a murdering torturer. An asshole? Yes. Obsessed? Without a doubt. A man-whore? Undoubtedly. But he cares about his fellow man. I didn't see any of that in the Snyder films. He was more about "this is for ME!" 

In my opinion.

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Just now, GHScorpiosRule said:

I may not be a die-hard comic fan, but in no comic or graphic novel that I've read, was Superman a dark, angsty character, or Batman, a murdering torturer. An asshole? Yes. Obsessed? Without a doubt. A man-whore? Undoubtedly. But he cares about his fellow man. I didn't see any of that in the Snyder films. He was more about "this is for ME!" 

In my opinion.

Snyder's Batman was an adaption from The Dark Knight by Frank Miller where I believe he was all those things. His Superman? Yeah he definitely made him into the opposite of who the character is and I believe their is a quote somewhere of Snyder saying he didn't get the character before he came onboard to MoS. But BvS was definitely filled with a lot of things only die hard fans would understand I feel like and I think he even said it was for those fans. 

But someone summed up Snyder pretty perfectly in that he is ok with adapting stories panel to panel but when he tries to go outside that formnat he fails. I think he has great ideas and would love for him to stay on as a creative consultant but other then that, he has no place being in charge of these characters. 

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5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Snyder's Batman was an adaption from The Dark Knight by Frank Miller

In that one off graphic novel, Superman was the government's tool.  And also older. Cavill's Supes wasn't anywhere near that. And Miller's Bats was forced out of retirement, as he was in his 50s. These are just some examples of why I hate Snyder and his mishmashing everything. Supes, Bats, Barry, they are all supposed to be contemporaries. Ezra's Barry is more like BART.

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Yeah, Snyder comes up with decent ideas and can make good adaptations of very stylistic things (like 300) but he isn't very good at follow through, and his dialogue and character work is shoddy as hell. He thinks making all his characters angsty and uber macho makes for a good movie, and it doesn't work unless its under specific circumstances. Hell, all the best lines in my favorite of his movies, 300, were lines written by the actual Spartans, and not Snyder and his crew. 

DC also, as others have said, relies way too much on the audience just knowing who these characters are, and how their world works. Because they have the most famous characters, they assume the audience will follow perfectly, even if most of the weirdest stuff about the movies (Atlantis, Green Lanterns) are just thrown out there like everyone did research, or is already a fan. And yet, they make so many changes, the fans arent usually thrilled either. Really, I think losing their marquee characters (X Men, FF) and having to rely on less famous characters and parts of their universe was a blessing in disguise for the MCU. Because they knew their characters weren't super well known, they made sure that they showed each characters personality, powers, skills, and backstory, as well as how their world works. They have plenty of Easter Eggs for the fans, but it also appeals to the non fans who are just watching the movies. They had to work to get people behind these characters, they couldn't just rely on past knowledge like DC.

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I think The Dark Knight Returns is one of the most overrated comic books ever and a huge mistake to adapt in general but especially to start off a movie franchise.  I did enjoy watching all the die hard comic fans, who'd raved about TDKR for years and thought I was the weird one, hating that movie for the very reasons I hate that comic.  That and Wonder Woman made the experience worth it for me.

There are any number of things Warner Bros can do to improve going forward but two come to mind that I think could help a lot in the short term and, if they work, could also pay off big time in the long term. 

The first is putting someone new in charge.  That seems like a given, since Snyder's vision has been poorly received and everyone talks about Feige's success overseeing the MCU, but it hasn't been yet.  WB needs to suck it up, admit their mistake and move on.  The person (or persons, a partnership can work just fine) needs to be In Charge.  I don't think they should helm a movie at all, but be the franchise showrunner.  They can place a DC person in charge if they want, but not Geoff Johns.  Like everyone else has said, place someone from DC animation in charge.  It can be a writer who wants more responsibility, a producer who wants the same, I don't care, just use animation to their advantage for once.  And that even has the benefit of being different from Marvel, since their animation department doesn't hold a candle to DC and therefore aren't a valuable resource.

The second is to start adapting specific stories.  BvS was based on The Dark Knight Returns like I said, but that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about a Winter Soldier, Civil War, or Days Of Future Past (not Marvel but still) type adaptation.  Take beloved DC stories, tweak them a bit to fit the movie, keep the title, and that will get people excited as well as increase the chances of success.  They don't have to do that for every movie, because directors like Patty Jenkins have proven they don't need it, but it's a smart and safe move. 

There are many other things they can do but I think these two would be a good start.

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Well bad news since Geoff Johns is practically in charge of the movies bts starting with WW. WB finally gave him more control after BvS but before he could do anythingabout JL.

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