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S06.E08: Crisis on Earth-X (2) 2017.11.27

9 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I'm currently a bit behind on crossover antics and I'm just reading the board to keep up.   But yikes,  people seem grumpy on the other boards about having to know about the other shows, yet I don't watch Supergirl or the Flash and thought that they did a pretty good job of mixing all the characters together. 

I haven’t watched one episode of Supergirl or Legends and I thought it was really fun to see all those characters together..the only character I didn’t like a lot was Kara but not because of something she did, I don’t like the way MB plays her. I really like her sister instead, Mick, Amaya, Zari, surprisingly Ray that I didn’t like a lot on Arrow, and loved Stein.

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We've removed posts that contain spoilers for the Crossover eps after this one.

Remember to talk only about what happened in this episode or the one before it.

To discuss the full crossover, go to Mind Your Surroundings.

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Oliver should use Oliver-X's body and claim this is who was "framing" him as the Green Arrow. It might work.

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15 minutes ago, Locutus said:

Oliver should use Oliver-X's body and claim this is who was "framing" him as the Green Arrow. It might work.

Great idea. Cut to the FBI Lady: "You got this body from another universe, didn't you? You went to another Earth, found a doppelgänger, killed him, dressed him up, and dumped his body in front of the press. I'm on to you, Mayor Queen."

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Aside: Felicity, Caitlin and Alex doing most the tech stuff?  It's what STEM dreams are made of. 

It's nice that someone remembered Alex was recruited to the DEO as a scientist. 

Edited by Oreo2234.
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Crossover question pertaining to Arrow: did Sara meet Dinah last season? I forgot . . . I mean, Dinah did replace Laurel, and Sara would probably nod and punch her gently on the shoulder. Then she'd go to the Waverider, all, "Wait, isn't 'Dinah' my mother's name?"

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3 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Crossover question pertaining to Arrow: did Sara meet Dinah last season? I forgot . . . I mean, Dinah did replace Laurel, and Sara would probably nod and punch her gently on the shoulder. Then she'd go to the Waverider, all, "Wait, isn't 'Dinah' my mother's name?"

No, she didn't. Dinah joined the team after the crossover and Sara never showed up on Arrow in the later half of the season.

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Thanks, @lemotomato and @Starfish35. Next question: does Sara knows about Black Siren? The ironic thing: after Part 3, having an evil version of her dead sister wouldn't be the most traumatic thing Sara would encounter pertaining to another Earth.

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17 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Next question: does Sara knows about Black Siren?

I haven't watched Arrow regularly for quite a while, but again I don't think so.  At least, it didn't happen onscreen.  From what I'm hearing/reading, Arrow has kind of ignored Sara's existence in regards to Black Siren and nu!Black Canary.

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5 hours ago, Delphi said:

I'm currently a bit behind on crossover antics and I'm just reading the board to keep up.   But yikes,  people seem grumpy on the other boards about having to know about the other shows, yet I don't watch Supergirl or the Flash and thought that they did a pretty good job of mixing all the characters together. 

I only watch Arrow save for some clips on Youtube if I hear there was something fun on the other shows, but I enjoyed most of the other characters as well. I really think they did a good job in that regard this year, in that you could follow everything even if you weren’t a regular viewer.

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I just randomly wondered if XOliver likes to cook too. It’s a really disturbing thought. 

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I just can't get over the Nazis. I can't. Couldn't they come up with something better than Nazis?

I just want to Godwin's Law this shit to death.

You know why Nazis don't rule the Earth? Because they lost WWII? No, because those societies DO NOT WORK. And we're supposed to believe they nuked everything? The crop failures alone would stop this hyper-militaristic culture from surviving. Do you know how successful pure corporatism is at food production? It isn't! Where is the money coming from to support extreme corporatism on a planet that has regularly been nuked?

This was just an entire episode of dumb and there are two left.

They could have done this plotline so much better without fucking Nazis

PS Why would Kara be a devoted Nazi because she landed on this Earth? She was already a teenager raised in a pacifist, scientific society and she lands on Nazi Earth and becomes a Nazi? There's no way. If this was Clark Kent who was a baby, maybe. But this made zero sense. ZERO.

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@AudienceofOne: For comparison purposes: in the world of Earth-X as presented in Justice League Of America, Roosevelt died in the middle of the war, and bu the time America sorted itself out, Germany had their own bomb. The war lasted for decades, until the Germans used a device to make the rest of the world succumb to their will.

Also, "Kryptonians Landing Away From American Heartland" has been used several times. Here's the one everybody talks about. And here's one that's overlooked.

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2 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

@AudienceofOne: For comparison purposes: in the world of Earth-X as presented in Justice League Of America, Roosevelt died in the middle of the war, and bu the time America sorted itself out, Germany had their own bomb. The war lasted for decades, until the Germans used a device to make the rest of the world succumb to their will.

Also, "Kryptonians Landing Away From American Heartland" has been used several times. Here's the one everybody talks about. And here's one that's overlooked.

Oh I get this is classic comic book fodder. I have the same complaints about it in comics as I do here. Comics pretty well started as US war propaganda. And I'm not saying that somehow the Nazis weren't bad, the Nazis were horrific. But that doesn't mean that these endless, endless fucking Nazi references framed against the noble American myth aren't painful.

Spoiler

We have concentration camps in the world RIGHT FUCKING NOW. So having these over-privileged assholes going "oh, we must be on Earth X because there's nothing like this at home" while millions of people have died in camps exactly like that well after WWII ended and concentration camps still exist right now is fucking offensive.

I'm not saying that a baby brought up in a certain culture isn't going to be a product of that culture because, duh. But Kara wasn't a baby. It's not like she went along with this regime to survive, she apparently embraced it and they have given us very little reason why. Don't even get me started on the fact that she's an alien.

Even I don't like getting so serious about something that's supposed to be, at its core, very silly. But these writers and producers constantly frame themselves as being progressive and feminist and hashtag rainbow or something but they have got to be the least self-aware writers on the planet. This was some really juvenile shit.

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56 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

I'm not saying that a baby brought up in a certain culture isn't going to be a product of that culture because, duh. But Kara wasn't a baby. It's not like she went along with this regime to survive, she apparently embraced it and they have given us very little reason why. Don't even get me started on the fact that she's an alien.

She did give the reason that she threw in her lot with them.  The Nazis considered her to be the poster child for the Aryan Master Race:  Blonde, blue-eyed, AND endowed with powers and intelligence far beyond those of  "inferior" races.  They treated her as a goddess, in other words, and rather than force her into hiding her powers and her identity (as was what happened when our Kara arrived on Earth-38), they encouraged her to develop and use her powers to help them promote their government and to enforce their laws.

And who's to say that the Kryptonians of Krypton-X weren't themselves a more warlike race?

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2 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I just randomly wondered if XOliver likes to cook too. It’s a really disturbing thought. 

Hitler liked to paint,  after all.   I'm going to say he liked to cook, because it is disturbing and it should be disturbing because it's such a run of the mill thing that you don't expect to get out of monsters. 

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9 hours ago, DeadZeus said:

I want to see Meta's in Arrow... But only if Oliver can actually beat hem by being awesome.. Not if he gets his ass kicked. Beating meta's should really be a testament of his skills IMO. Only giving him weaklings is kinda lame...

I'm absolutely against metas on Arrow ... BUT I can make exceptions for villains, especially if, as you say, Oliver defeats them using his smarts and his skills. Arrow sometimes remembers that Oliver is an awesome tactician and I would love to see more of that from him. I don't want villains beating him because he's an idiot (which unfortunately has been happening since S2). Still absolutely against having metas on the team, though. 

Different topic, anyone notice how Tom Cavanaugh seems to have almost cracked up again at something Emily did? There was that scene in STAR Labs where Felicity, Harrison, Caitlin, Alex and Iris were gathered and they were talking about the device the Nazis stole from another lab. Harrison said something about how the device can be converted into a bomb and Felicity made an "exploding" sound except it came out more like "pffooo." I see Tom start grinning and then he scratches his nose to hide it. 

Reminded me of his reaction to "Boom. Mic drop" back in the third season.

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On 11/27/2017 at 7:07 PM, calliope1975 said:

Way better than I was expecting. It'll be difficult waiting for tomorrow's episodes. 

I've learned that I want a Mick spinoff with...everyone...and should maybe look into picking up LOT again. (I quit somewhere in the first season.)

ETA: I also want a non-evil version of Tommy to cameo again. Preferably for a happy event. 

I felt the same way you did with LOT, but I stuck with it...and I never continue to watch stuff I don't LOVE, but since it's part of Berlanti World, I knew it would be great.

It's streaming on Netflix, so binge watch when you can.

Edited by Bridget. Reason: Content
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Something I liked about this ep that I hadn't seen pointed out - Oliver's palm scan is programmed into the pipeline computers and he knew it. I was oddly touched to see him included like that. 

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On 11/29/2017 at 11:55 AM, Midnight Lullaby said:

I haven’t watched one episode of Supergirl or Legends and I thought it was really fun to see all those characters together

Agreed.  I don't watch Arrow or Flash, but I could figure most of it out, and there's Wikipedia for the rest of it.

Legends of Tomorrow and Flash are Arrow spin offs.  One doesn't have to watch them all, but I don't see how one can complain if the 3 shows are tied together once a year, and we were told and shown what we needed to know about Supergirl, which isn't much. (Alex is her sister, and she fights really well.)  If you only watch Supergirl and never read comics, then I can see why the crossover might not be for you.

On 11/29/2017 at 7:10 PM, AudienceofOne said:

I'm not saying that a baby brought up in a certain culture isn't going to be a product of that culture because, duh. But Kara wasn't a baby. It's not like she went along with this regime to survive, she apparently embraced it and they have given us very little reason why. Don't even get me started on the fact that she's an alien.

 

On 11/29/2017 at 6:57 PM, Lantern7 said:

@AudienceofOne: For comparison purposes: in the world of Earth-X as presented in Justice League Of America, Roosevelt died in the middle of the war, and bu the time America sorted itself out, Germany had their own bomb. The war lasted for decades, until the Germans used a device to make the rest of the world succumb to their will.

Also, "Kryptonians Landing Away From American Heartland" has been used several times. Here's the one everybody talks about. And here's one that's overlooked.

Right.  Kara likely landed as a baby and been adopted by evil parents.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse.
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59 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Something I liked about this ep that I hadn't seen pointed out - Oliver's palm scan is programmed into the pipeline computers and he knew it. I was oddly touched to see him included like that. 

I've a head canon that every time Felicity drops by for a visit she upgrades STAR Labs' system and so the Flash folks have included her, Oliver and Diggle in their security protocols.

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Deleted scene:

Supergirl: "Why don't I just fly you over-"
Green Arrow: "No."
Flash: "Well I can just speed you to-"
Green Arrow: "Definitely NOT!" *struts toward motorcycle*

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11 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

She did give the reason that she threw in her lot with them.  The Nazis considered her to be the poster child for the Aryan Master Race:  Blonde, blue-eyed, AND endowed with powers and intelligence far beyond those of  "inferior" races.  They treated her as a goddess, in other words, and rather than force her into hiding her powers and her identity (as was what happened when our Kara arrived on Earth-38), they encouraged her to develop and use her powers to help them promote their government and to enforce their laws.

And who's to say that the Kryptonians of Krypton-X weren't themselves a more warlike race?

Also: Apparently, either Kara-X wasn't sent to Earth-X to look after baby Kal-X; or his pod never made it to Earth-X; or he didn't last long.  Any of which would yield a Kara-X with a different personality.

Plus, even the denizens of Krypton-38 were no saints.

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How did Wells know so much about Earth-X ?  Had he visited there before ?  How did he discover it ?  They never did explain that.
And does this mean that there is an Earth-54 and higher ?

And how did Jax not know about the many Earths ?  He does know that Supergirl is from Earth-38, so when they were discussing where the Nazis came from and he asked "There's more than one ?"  it just seemed odd.

Edited by ottoDbusdriver.
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14 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm absolutely against metas on Arrow ... BUT I can make exceptions for villains, especially if, as you say, Oliver defeats them using his smarts and his skills. Arrow sometimes remembers that Oliver is an awesome tactician and I would love to see more of that from him. I don't want villains beating him because he's an idiot (which unfortunately has been happening since S2). Still absolutely against having metas on the team, though. 

 

Yes, Last season Sonus used his disorienting power on Oliver, Oliver wasn't fazed and just shot him... I was like "AWW yeah". But then Sonus just uses it again but with a bit more wrinkles on his forehead and Oliver couldn't handle it anymore and needed some Tech device to beat him. Very lame IMO

Arrow shouldn't be filled with Meta's. But Oliver being able to take one down in a while would at alot of value. IMO

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17 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

PS Why would Kara be a devoted Nazi because she landed on this Earth? She was already a teenager raised in a pacifist, scientific society and she lands on Nazi Earth and becomes a Nazi? There's no way. If this was Clark Kent who was a baby, maybe. But this made zero sense. ZERO.

They may give more detailed backstory on her in the Flash and Legends eps and come up with their own explanation(haven't watched the yet), but if I recall correctly in the comics Earth-X's Kara/Overgirl wasn't born and raised on Krypton, she was a gender-flipped clone of Overman that the Nazis created.

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8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And how did Jax not know about the many Earths ?  He does know that Supergirl is from Earth-38, so when they were discussing where the Nazis came from and he asked "There's more than one ?"  it just seemed odd.

It was odd, because he already met Supergirl in last year's crossover, so he should be aware of at least one other earth. They just gave that line to the wrong person.

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Funniest line of the whole crossover occurred in this episode (I think?)....


Oliver (to Barry & Kara, arriving after them):  Just as a reminder; Super Speed.  I don't have it.

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1 hour ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:


Oliver (to Barry & Kara, arriving after them):  Just as a reminder; Super Speed.  I don't have it.

It was Amell's delivery that really sold it. Dry, deadpan, and yet supremely annoyed at the same time. Plus the way Barry and Kara just had the same innocent yet smug smiles.

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Srsly though, if they need to take atleast one thing away from this Crossover it's Evil Oliver capability to not give a crap about Meta's. Dude didn't even get fazed when facing Caitlin... Oliver would have already been ass first on the floor just by seeing her. Evil Oliver was a beast this episode and in the Supergirl opening...

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Just rewatching this.

I really think this episode is the best of the crossover followed by part 4. I think this one has the best balance of drama, angst, humor and action.

On 11/30/2017 at 5:28 PM, KirkB said:

It was Amell's delivery that really sold it. Dry, deadpan, and yet supremely annoyed at the same time. Plus the way Barry and Kara just had the same innocent yet smug smiles.

I came away thinking his annoyance was not only with them not remembering that fact, but maybe a little bit miffed that he doesn't have it. I don't think he really wants it but may be a little part of him is a bit bummed that he doesn't.

SA's comedic timing is woefully underrated IMO. :)

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43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Just rewatching this.

I really think this episode is the best of the crossover followed by part 4. I think this one has the best balance of drama, angst, humor and action.

I came away thinking his annoyance was not only with them not remembering that fact, but maybe a little bit miffed that he doesn't have it. I don't think he really wants it but may be a little part of him is a bit bummed that he doesn't.

SA's comedic timing is woefully underrated IMO. :)

To be fair to Oliver he did manage to keep up fairly well on his bike, he wasn't that far behind. I don't think he really wants superpowers, and Barry and Kara do respect him 99% of the time but yeah he probably does get frustrated somewhat when things like that scene happen. Then again his ability to shoot arrows and swing from nothing is basically supernatural anyway. All of the LOT characters think Sara is the most badass among them and she's basically like Oliver (her superpower is a refusal to stay permanently dead) and Alex is not only similar she also spends a lot of time worrying about her nearly invulnerable younger sister instead of her very killable human self in any situation. 

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10 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

To be fair to Oliver he did manage to keep up fairly well on his bike, he wasn't that far behind. I don't think he really wants superpowers, and Barry and Kara do respect him 99% of the time but yeah he probably does get frustrated somewhat when things like that scene happen.

?  I was more remarking on that's how I interpreted how SA played that comedic beat. That it was both irritation with Barry and Kara for not remembering, and mild annoyance that he doesn't have superspeed. Not a real analysis that I think Oliver deep down wants' powers. Just more that maybe in little moments like that, for a brief moment, he's like "Shit, that might be useful". That's all. My comment wasn't trying to make this into some kind of metas vs not meta powers thing.  Sorry if something in my comment lead you to think otherwise. 

Edited by catrox14.
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38 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

?  I was more remarking on that's how I interpreted how SA played that comedic beat. That it was both irritation with Barry and Kara for not remembering, and mild annoyance that he doesn't have superspeed. Not a real analysis that I think Oliver deep down wants' powers. Just more that maybe in little moments like that, for a brief moment, he's like "Shit, that might be useful". That's all. My comment wasn't trying to make this into some kind of metas vs not meta powers thing.  Sorry if something in my comment lead you to think otherwise. 

Yeah I got what you were saying and it was a funny line well played by SA, just commenting on the situation in general as well. 

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15 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah I got what you were saying and it was a funny line well played by SA, just commenting on the situation in general as well. 

Gotcha :)

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After taking down Killer Frost and Heat Wave, Dark Arrow then took down the three newbies all by himself (iirc) - Wild Dog, Mr. Terrific, and meta Black Canary.  I'm assuming (hoping) that our Oliver could do the same.

Edited by tv echo.
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31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

After taking down Killer Frost and Heat Wave, Dark Arrow then took down the three newbies all by himself (iirc) - Wild Dog, Mr. Terrific, and meta Black Canary.  I'm assuming (hoping) that our Oliver could do the same.

Agreed. That's why

Spoiler

I hope that bts "practice" fight scene between Oliver's stunt double and Dinah's and Rene's stunt doubles was actually a real one because it would be an awesome reminder that Oliver could always beat them.

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Spoiler

That bts "practice" fight scene might've been for the crossover fight - and not for a future Arrow episode.

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